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Gaming Outpost Discussions » Tag: lists - Recent Posts http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/tags/lists Gaming Outpost Discussions » Tag: lists - Recent Posts en-US Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:30:30 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/search.php kyler on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20297 Mon, 28 Jun 2010 14:13:13 +0000 kyler 20297@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Yeah, this does look like an interesting world, though I would almost certainly join the dark, for one. Ky M. J. Young on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20252 Sun, 27 Jun 2010 20:18:16 +0000 M. J. Young 20252@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ <blockquote>c) Skill user roll once against a cumulative roll of 4 towers that rolls one roll each. (This is what I think most likely to happen if the suppression is like bonus skill ability.).... e) Skill user roll once against an average roll of 4 towers which would be roll only once. (This is what I think most likely to happen if the towers are counted as single entity.)</blockquote> If I'm understanding aright, I would say that one of these is correct, and it depends on how the devices are originally designed. That is, given four towers, either each is an independent device for which a roll has to be made (four rolls total) or all four are joined as a single device operated on a single roll. The choice lies with the designer. The single roll approach has both the advantage and the disadvantage that all towers stand or fall together; the multiple roll approach means you might have spotty coverage, some towers working well and others working poorly or not at all. (It also raises your odds of botching, if there is a chance to botch, because you have to roll more frequently.) --M. J. Young Tadeusz on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20243 Sat, 26 Jun 2010 19:40:51 +0000 Tadeusz 20243@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Okay, we'll go with Mag Bias 3@22 which will give some small amount of normal magic, and make the emptyhanded mages helpless on mid and high bias spells as Wodium put it. I'm thinking that the Dark opened a gate to this world, and through this they are able to send their talismans and scrolls. The Light was about to capture the Dark in another world, and so the highest of the Dark escaped. So the Light sent their Quick Reaction Force with the Swords to volunteer to the local reigning powers their help. The local deities agreed provided the QRF didn't seek worship which the QRF was not inclined to anyways. Most the Dark's magics are transformative of flesh, and the Light dislikes this. Thus the Dark takes normal Irish wolfhounds and magics them into hellhounds which are formed of Darkflame. The Minion is transformed to be superhumanly strong and resistant and to have a strong, bloodthirsty and violent edge. The Chill One (a renegade swordbearer of several centuries lifespan) is transformed to be a quasi-spirit entity. It can shift at will between spirit and flesh. It also has a damaging field of cold out to fifty feet around it. It can project Coldflame which is an even more damaging form of Darkflame, and it has the ability to create Darkservants.) Darkservants are ordinary humans with one special magical ability, and a corruptive influence in their mind. The Great Lords of the Dark are spirit beings and almost never enter normal reality. One talisman that gets used is the swordtrap which captures and compels a sword. It can only be used if the swordbearer is incapacitated, willing, or dead. Another talisman is the Darkflame Amulet which in the hands of a Minion projects Darkflame and in the hands of a Chill One projects Coldflame. Other items are the Scrolls of Undying (which create the Chill Ones with vampiric sacrifices of other's life force to the Great Ones). Another Scroll is the Scroll of the Dead Dog (which kills a wolfhound and produces a Hellhound in its place.) Another Scroll is the Scroll of the Stupid Man (as its known to the Chill Ones amongst themselves) or the Scroll of Dark Power as they name it to the Darkservants (it sacrifices the life force of the servant to the Great Ones in exchange for power. So, yes, a Darkservant can age himself to dust in a fight. And yes, the Chill Ones do not think highly of their Darkservants even as they pretend otherwise to some degree. To their mind, only an idiot would agree to trade years of his life for the power to shoot one powerbolt especially when you could trade years of someone else's life.) Max on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20239 Sat, 26 Jun 2010 09:24:29 +0000 Max 20239@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I wonder if the skilled user have to roll against each tower or does the skilled user only have to roll against a cumulative tower. For example, the skilled user is in the area which there are 4 suppression towers. Which of the following is true: a) Skill user roll once against the towers which rolls once each or 4 times and the highest roll will be taken as the suppression roll. b) Skill user roll 4 times against each of the towers and if any one of the skill rolls fails the skill user fails. c) Skill user roll once against a cumulative roll of 4 towers that rolls one roll each. (This is what I think most likely to happen if the suppression is like bonus skill ability.) d) Skill user roll 4 times which calculated cumulatively against a cumulative roll of 4 towers. e) Skill user roll once against an average roll of 4 towers which would be roll only once. (This is what I think most likely to happen if the towers are counted as single entity.) M. J. Young on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20225 Fri, 25 Jun 2010 21:37:05 +0000 M. J. Young 20225@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Scott previously suggested the notion that all magic was performed by means of magic devices--the swords have magic powers, and the dark ones have artifacts with magic powers. These devices are probably gated in from the border supernatural by beings on that side, not created here. I mention it in this context because you're looking for a way to penalize magic across the board, and the really easy way to do it is to make the bias 1@25 and make all the skills powers performed by artifacts delivered from outside the universe. If you've got people performing magic directly themselves, then as soon as the student learns a 7@ spell his bias rises to 7@, and since as an indig his bias can't exceed the world's bias we know that the world's bias is at least 7@; that means he now gets +14 on all efforts to do magic because of his higher bias. Assuming that there are 15@ spells available, and the world bias is 15@, once he learns one of those he gets +30 on all spells. Further, because the world bias is 15@, he gets +15 for the world area bias on all spell learning. If the bias is 1@25, though, then he never learns any spells other than the use device spells for the device(s) in his possession. That means the only bonuses he ever gets for bias are +2 on skill use and +1 on skill learning--a significant impact on his ability to learn or do anything. Also, there's another trick possible here. You wanted to have the swordbearers learn magic abilities in an unusual order. It's already established that in the creation of a device with multiple functions you can give different bonuses or penalties to specific abilities of the device. That would mean that the swordbearers have only one magic skill: operate magic sword. Their ability to perform the various functions of the sword then depends on how good they are at that skill, what bonuses or penalties apply, and whether they are aware of that power. So if the base skill is bonus to chance to hit, the sword probably has a Bonus Strike skill with maybe a +50 sit-mod (that's potent enough that it will work probably 82% of the time for the average amateur user). Then you want the Penetrate Disguise skill to work, so you make it +40. Different swords might be more aggressive or more conservative, that is, one might think that +40 is a powerful enough bonus that a user with a 1@5 SAL should try it (given a 1@5 BRA, that's 72% chance of success), while another would insist that he wait until he's 2@1 (78%). Give progressively smaller bonuses to other skills you want to encourage but keep more difficult, and shift to slight penalties on skills of which the sword ought to be capable but would rather avoid. (You can also include a "purpose" bonus, something like +5 if the skill is being used in a way that supports the reason the sword was given.) You would then also create devices for the Dark ones. One advantage that the swordbearers would have over the Dark ones is that they have only one skill, so they have an increasing skill ability level--new use any time they tap a new power, practice with the one device improves their chance of success across the board. The Dark ones will be collecting multiple devices, and will have to have multiple skills in them--it's fair for them to have one "use active when worn/held device" skill up to 1@10, but if they're going to achieve professional level at any such device, it has to be limited to a specific subgroup of such devices, and expert level is going to have to be a particular device. These devices, too, would have bonuses and penalties. Concerning the magic-suppressing towers, they would have to be always active devices, but their ability to suppress would be a skill check for someone who was deemed to be the skilled user, and that check would go head-to-head relative success against the skill check of the skilled user trying to work the opposed magic. If this were not so, it would be possible to create a world in which only magic of one affiliation were possible at all (because you could create devices that suppressed all opposing magic with sit-mods in the hundreds or thousands of points). Even devices that are always operating operate based on the skill of someone who is deemed the user; that's how we know whether they work. --M. J. Young WilliamTWodium on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20218 Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:20:16 +0000 WilliamTWodium 20218@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ That's easy, Tad: the bonus is half the Swordbearer's Religion SAL, rounded up - just like with all holy magic. If he breaks the code, the powers he serve penalize his magic until he atones. The bigger the infraction, the larger the penalty and the more difficult the atonement. There is a M1@9 Atonement skill, usually used by another person on the subject in need of atonement (not a blessing, but a ceremony, which are grouped in the same bias level). It usually requires some type of quest or penance from the one atoning before it takes full effect. As for your penalty on all magic, you might consider making the penalty smaller for performance but greater for learning. Tadeusz on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20216 Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:01:37 +0000 Tadeusz 20216@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Second post. A better usage of Wodium's and MJ's time than making sure that yes, Eric does realize 2+2=4 :) is how many points should be assigned as a bonus for the Code of the Swordbearer. If the Code is broken, no magic. I'm not sure how to restore the Swordbearer to his magic. That gets into issues of repentance and forgiveness that are a bit obscure for me. Obviously the more difficult it is to be restored to magicc the greater the bonus. Tadeusz on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20215 Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:52:38 +0000 Tadeusz 20215@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ You were right the first time, Wodium. This -10 would be to ALL magic including the Swords and the Dark. I'm reminded of something Graeme said a long time ago. In a Lovecraftian world you'd have the Anarch penalty if you were doing Alliance magic. Plus Anarch deities, if they are powerblocking, often block the first three levels because those levels with their healing spells help the Alliance more on balance than they help the Anarchs. So that you had a serious barrier to leap over to do any magic at all which fit with the Lovecraftian idea of studying tomes covered by human skin for two decades before you could do any magic.....Its been a long time so I didn't get it quite right on the first go, but good enuf. And this is sort of a minor addition to the Swordbearers idea. If you make it harder for everyone to do magic, then you don't have much magic. Now the Swordbearer can do magic, even with the penalty, because he has such a huge array of bonuses (must have Sword which is a nearly unique item, full body involvement often...so that is +9 for the Sword and +15 for FBI so even with a -10 he starts off with a +14. Add in the teacher bonus...the swords can't talk except emotively...that is 'feel sad' for no, and happy for yes, and aren't really human so I'm not going to say great teachers but 1@10 sounds reasonable, and giving the user images of what to do to serve as an example maybe... The end result is that the Swordbearer has a pretty fair bonus to learning magic. Of course, its also a kind of neccessary thing as he's usually learning while something deeply unpleasant is trying to eat him. I have to admit Max that although its not what I had in mind....but in a near-future dictatorship of the Dark world (high tech and industrialized and spiritually blighted but materially rich for some and okay for others and dreadful for some but backed up by the top people having Dark magics) that some sort of magic suppressor towers would be quite cool. You'd have to tell people that they were something else, perhaps something to do with cell phones. And people who were sensitive but unlearned would probably not like being around these towers...they'd give them the willies. Although I'd have it that the towers work against the Swords as well. In fact, that's one of the main points of the towers. But they don't work against Dark based magic. Max on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20211 Fri, 25 Jun 2010 07:46:01 +0000 Max 20211@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ How about towers that suppressed all magic in that world but the sword is the key to bypass the suppression? That would probably be like EMP tower that makes all electronics to malfunction except the one that is shielded against EMP. WilliamTWodium on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20210 Fri, 25 Jun 2010 02:03:49 +0000 WilliamTWodium 20210@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Okay, so I was misreading MJ. If you're penalizing other styles because they're not the world's preferred style, that's contrary to the game's philosophy. If you're concerned about it, I like my approach above better. You could also have a rule against new magic - no magical skills may be created in this world without the use of a M15@4 Create New Magic skill. I'm sure you can follow the consequences of that to their logical conclusions and see how this supports your agenda. Tadeusz on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20208 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:11:39 +0000 Tadeusz 20208@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I'm thinking of making everyone hit with a -10 on magic so that other styles of magic don't crop up much in that world, but they can. And so yeah, the Visitor and Jhiaxus can do their magic. I could just say 'people in this universe do magic this way' but I'm thinking of backing it up a bit with a sit mod. WilliamTWodium on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20205 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:39:43 +0000 WilliamTWodium 20205@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I may be misreading you, MJ, but it sounds as though you've misread Tad as saying that the Visitor or Jiaxus could not perform magic their own way, when in fact what he said was exactly the opposite - that of course the versers could retain their magical styles. The rest sounds good to me. M. J. Young on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20184 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 17:14:00 +0000 M. J. Young 20184@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ <blockquote>This is not to say that the Visitor can't do his song magic and Jhiaxus can't call on Odin, but most magic should be about the Dark, and most magicians should be either feeble or powerful. I think some sort of -10 Dice Mod might be the ticket here. I don't want as strong as an affect that way as in a Cthulu world, however so I'll allow the lower layers of magic.</blockquote> This again is something that Multiverser specifically disallows. O.K., here's a sketch of the problem. The Architect views himself as a servant of the Creator God and Jesus Christ; Michael di Vars supposes himself to be called to service by Odin, and so serves the Norse Gods. We drop them both into an Ancient Greece, where Zeus really is King of the Gods atop Mount Olympus, and any holy magic that is done in this world is done calls upon the Greek Pantheon. Both of our versers have a great deal of magic, much of it holy magic. Neither of them has ever called upon or served Zeus nor any member of Zeus' pantheon. We were confronted with the question, does the fact that Zeus rules this universe mean that prayers to Odin or Christ cannot work here? The answer we gave was "No". It had to be "No". We could imagine a hundred pantheons easily, and so it would be possible for the referee to abuse the player by letting him learn powerful magic skills in one highly magical world that would not work in any other world he ever visited despite the fact that magic was powerfully present, simply because the referee felt like saying "No one has ever heard of Jesus here, or Odin, or Zeus, and so your prayers to your god cannot be heard in this universe." That's why the rule states that you cannot keep a character from communicating with his particular deity except to the degree that you prevent all characters from communicating with any deities. The only permitted quirk in this is that the affiliation of the world advantages those who support gods of that affiliation and disadvantages those who support gods of another affiliation--part of what it means to make it a heroic or dark world, because good or evil or neutral powers have a slight edge within that world. You can't make a world that says, "You have to do magic this way or it won't work." You can't make a world that says "If the verser does magic he learned in another universe, it will not work as well as magic he learned in this universe." You can do that with the indigs, easily enough. You simply state that the indigs all believe that to perform magic (of a particular sort) you must do so in a particular way. If the indigs all believe that you must have a sword to cast the spells used by swordbearers, no one will ever try to cast those spells without a sword, and even if they do they will not expect to succeed and so won't roll for success. But that's such an obvious aspect that what you said would make no sense if it meant that. The indigs believe that you must cast magic in specific ways or it won't work, and therefore for them they never attempt to cast magic in any other way. It has no impact on what the verser (or an angel or devil) can do. <blockquote>Can I have a 'full body involvement' that means 'all you have available'?</blockquote> The problem is that "full body involvement" is not a menu selection item; it's a description of the stated conduct. That is, the spell description does not say "full body involvement"; it says "character must dance a jig while waving his arms and singing," or "character must prostrate himself on his knees with his face and hands pressed to the floor for five minutes," or "character must walk slowly around the ring of candles in the center, dousing each with the candle snuffer in his left hand an then relighting it with the taper in his right hand;" and because the spell description says this the referee marks on his cheat sheet "+15 for full body involvement", a statement that appears only in the calculation. That's why I suggested that the sword must custom design the ritual of acceptance for each individual candidate. Whether the paraplegic is capable of "full body involvement" or more precisely deserves a +15 bonus for using both arms and his head (for which +4 or +5 would be the appropriate bonus for someone else) would be a referee's judgment--and one he does not really have to make very often, because since he's acting the part of the sword he gets to design the skill in a form which he comfortably feels gets the bonuses being given for the effects accomplished. <blockquote>The Swords do not draw their powers directly from the Light, but from the pool. However, they would refuse to operate in an evil cause unless forced (and that is what renegade swordbearers do...they put a magic on the Sword which forces it to obey).</blockquote> This sounds to me as if the swords are sentient beings with an alliance affiliation much as characters can have an alliance affiliation: they wish to serve objectives consistent with those of the Creator God and the advancement of His plan for the universes. Treat them as characters/creatures, give them attributes and skills as appropriate, assume that they are of off-world origin (thus not indigs and not limited to the bias level but only to the curve) and have the "use always active device skill" be the basis for the character to get the sword to do what the character directs. The sword can resist based on its own personality and values, possibly getting into a will power contest with the character. Dark characters who have captured swords probably have high will powers and possibly some kind of magic to suppress the will power of the captive. --M. J. Young WilliamTWodium on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20179 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 13:46:47 +0000 WilliamTWodium 20179@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ <blockquote>Author's Note: I don't want much other magic going on in this world. This is not to say that the Visitor can't do his song magic and Jhiaxus can't call on Odin, but most magic should be about the Dark, and most magicians should be either feeble or powerful.</blockquote> If you decide that almost all of the Swordbearer's magics are properties of the Swords themselves (which is the route I prefer), then that opens up an avenue for you to limit "other magic" in precisely this way. Make the magic bias M4@21, or 3@22, or 2@23, or similar - you get the idea, low level but maximum curve. Since everything is within the curve, this allows a properly enchanted item to perform any function; magic item powers ignore bias level with regard to being curved out, just like versers do. However, it prevents additional magical items from being created by indigenous mortals*, and it bars access to mid- and high-bias skills to empty-handed magicians. Of course, this means that if you want the servants of the Dark to have access to more powerful spells, you'll need to arm them with artifacts of their own, but I think you've already made moves in this direction. Obviously the biggest prize for the bad guys is a magically bound Sword, but didn't you mention that there are forbidden writings describing magics frowned upon by the Light? Things like that are usually interpreted as instructors/examples of magics that a magician could have potentially invented on his own, but there's nothing stopping you from pulling a trick I'm rather fond of and deciding that these writings are in fact enchanted items, probably passed down from ancient times; the readers are using the books and scrolls to perform the magic. Like talentless cooks, they would be powerless without their recipes. I would be in favor of Dark servants using numerous minor charms and evil talismens, in direct contrast to the all-our-eggs-in-a-dozen-powerful-baskets approach of the Light's Swordbearers. I could elaborate on this more; I also have a very different alternative approach that I could post if you like, but I'm leaving the house just now. __ *(except possibly by use of magical artifacts enchanted for this purpose? Tadeusz on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20177 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 11:38:33 +0000 Tadeusz 20177@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Second post. I'm still a bit overwhelmed at the response to this idea. I guess that says something about which worlds should be published. I'm also a bit tired. Let's try to go from the top of the varying questions. The Code of the Swordbearer has me a bit flummoxed. I can come up with some obvious bits tho', but nothing terribly inspired. 1. No quarter to the Dark or its servants, and no surrender sought either. 2. Behave morally according to the teachings of the Alliance deity you follow. (The Lords of the Light do not seek worship, but warriors, and they regard themselves as a support group of warriors to help greater Powers so they have no problem with having a Muslim or Mormon or Baptist or Hindu Swordbearer. They are also willing to accept devotees of the Light which is another Alliance Power (s) ). 3. Protect the innocent first and the weak second. (That is, protect the random passerby first, and then the idiot who summoned a Dark creature but now may change his mind second.) 4. Do not kill humans except in self-defense, and Lawful Authorities Never (you may flee from or seek to disable a shooting policeman, but you may not kill him.) You are allowed to kill Dark summoners, that is sorcerors who have called up some form of Darkness. However such people are often 1)Quite weak compared to a Swordbearer. 2)Usually dreadfully naive and often willing to mend their ways if properly counselled, and so killing them is a last resort. Howerver, Darkservants, that is humans that have been imbued with a special power by the Dark are allowed to be killed. 5. Transformative magics, such as turn a person into something else, are not acceptable. Illusion spells that cloak oneself in the image of another are not well-liked but if needed then they are needed. Author's Note: I don't want much other magic going on in this world. This is not to say that the Visitor can't do his song magic and Jhiaxus can't call on Odin, but most magic should be about the Dark, and most magicians should be either feeble or powerful. I think some sort of -10 Dice Mod might be the ticket here. I don't want as strong as an affect that way as in a Cthulu world, however so I'll allow the lower layers of magic. I am not sure how much following this code as listed above would be worth, and it will likely need some modifying anyways. As a renegade Swordbearer, you don't gain new abilities. However, there are certain magics that are frowned on by the Light, and there are documents that discuss these. So it opens up a door you can choose to walk through. Mostly, the Light's magics are in the Swords, and the Dark's magics are in transforming creatures. Metal vs. Flesh. When Whisp passed through this world, the Light stayed away from him, and launched a diversionary attack elsewhere as the idea of what the Dark would do with teh ideas inherent in Whisp's body did not bear thinking on. I like the idea of the blade feeling anger when near the Dark, and that the user can feel this. However, I'd make it fairly short range, and not a good tracking mechanism. I'd say three levels...irritation...Something bad is in the area. Anger....its very near by like around the corner or down the street or behind us. Fury...there IT is! Kill the monster! Which is when you're in close enough range, say fifteen feet and you know its there. I like the idea of being able to sense its fellow swordmages. And the more magic you're working teh easier you are to detect (which is another limit...although I'm going to go for a 'fairly hard to detect still'.) I'm probably dropping the 'cut through dimensional barriers thing'. I'm going to say you're right about 'Always Active Device' for now. I'll have to look it up later and tell you if I disagree. But the default is now 'AAD'. Can I have a 'full body involvement' that means 'all you have available'? I suppose its best, I guess, for the Sword to do the Empowerment with a ritual of acceptance from the new Swordbearer. The Swords have the goals of 1)Serving the Light who created them. 2)Finding people who can wield them well. 3)Attacking the Dark. 4) Protecting humans as can. 5)Loyally serving their Bearer. 6)Appreciating their Bearer (yes the Swords feel affection and love for their users.) The Swords do not draw their powers directly from the Light, but from the pool. However, they would refuse to operate in an evil cause unless forced (and that is what renegade swordbearers do...they put a magic on the Sword which forces it to obey). The Man in the Wheelchair had his arms, but not his legs, so he could wield the sword, just not that well. Not all questions answered but I have to go pick up number two kid. Tadeusz on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20155 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 21:10:27 +0000 Tadeusz 20155@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I'm only going to touch on one part of this right now. I deliberately chose to do the learned magics out of bias order because a lot of schools of magic are going to have differing ideas about what is harder, or what is logical to learn next. Remember what you said how the order of bias made sense for you as the character in the 50 Mag Limit thread...and how others might not do it in that order? That's what I'm doing here. M. J. Young on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20152 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 20:45:50 +0000 M. J. Young 20152@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ <blockquote>I want to have a list of sword inspired magics including 'cut through the dimensional barriers'.</blockquote> There's a bit of a concern here. There are in essence two ways this can work, and I'm not sure either of them are quite what you want. <ol> <li>Cutting through dimensional barriers can be a power of the sword itself. The sword is already an Always Active Device; this function would push it to an Instant Activation Device (it does this not every time but when commanded to do so). That means the only skill the user has is a M1@8 Operate Instant Use Activation Device with an inherent M1@2 Operate Always Active Device subskill. He has no clue about cutting through dimensional barriers but that it's something that his sword can do.</li> <li>Cutting through dimensional barriers is a magic skill learned by some who use the sword. One of the essential components of the spell as taught is one of these specific magic swords. Problem is, as taught is not a fixed limitation on means of performing magic--someone else (and particularly someone from outside these related universes or with help from someone on the border supernatural) could devise a way to perform the same spell without the use of the sword. Such a sword could have a materials component value as high as 9, maybe ten (assuming that it is not unique but extremely rare in the multiverse), but that value could be reached by the use of an ordinary sword and the sacrifice of a valuable gemstone with each casting. So you've got sword wielders who are spellcasters able to cast spells of high bias (such a rift is a M12@9 skill), hopefully who must learn lower spells to build bias, but you also have an observable example of a skill that cuts through dimensional barriers that someone can use to bonus the creation of another skill that does the same thing.</li> </ol> <blockquote>The first spell a Swordbearer directly experiences is the Empowerment. The Sword utilizes The Choosing which leads it to a proper user. The Empowerment is a Ceremonies NOS where the Sword asks mentally the user without words but with emotions if he will accept the charge of fighting the Dark and serving the Light. If he assents, then he receives the office of Swordbearer. The time for this is nine minutes, full body involvement, and exhaustion afterwards, must have Sword and following the Code of the Swordbearer.</blockquote> This sounds to me like the sword itself is casting the spell, and that the new swordbearer is the beneficiary/target of the magic. This suggests again that the sword is an Always Active Device (I said so previously because the sword is able to act intelligently absent a user), an intelligent/sentient being with its own skills under its own control as well as being a magic device operated by the wielder. But it would be the sword that performs this ritual, not the new swordbearer. It would be different if candidates were seeking to be chosen by a sword, but your story of the paraplegic suggests it is otherwise. I'm also thinking that the full body involvement requirement fundamentally means that the paraplegic could not have performed the ritual, and thus it must be that the ritual does not require the use of the legs, and thus is not a full body involvement skill for anyone else. There might be a ritual of acceptance under that ceremonies NOS you want to incorporate; the question then is how the swordbearer candidate learns the ritual. The perhaps not so obvious answer is that the sword teaches it to him; it then might be the case that the sword is intelligent enough to create a specific ritual tailored to the needs and abilities of the particular individual, so that one might be required to sacrifice a great quantity of wealth objects, another perform a full-body kata, another spend a night in meditative solitude, according to the sword's perception of what would prepare that candidate for the task. <blockquote>The third spell a Swordbearer typically learns is Bonus Strike Mag 1@2. Must have sword, and follow the Code of the Swordbearer.</blockquote> You could do this, but it's pretty typical for this to be the magic performed by the sword itself; that is, the swordbearer rolls his "Use Magic Sword" skill and if successful he gets the strike bonus. You could allow that the Bonus Strike is a spell taught to the swordbearer, but <ul> <li>on the one hand it seems silly to have him cast such a spell on an intelligent magic sword that teaches him how to cast it, instead of having that be an inherent property of the sword use skill;</li> <li>on the other hand, much of what was said about the cut through dimensional barriers skill applies here as well, and why would you learn a skill that works with the sword only when you could learn a skill that would bonus all your attacks with or without weapons?</li> </ul> <blockquote>...This is a Mag 7@3 spell. This is typically the fourth spell the Bearer learns. The next spell (fifth) is Call Lightning Mag 4@7.... The next spell (sixth) is Attack-Specific Shields Mag 5@5</blockquote> This is just bad instructional order. It's like saying we're going to learn exponents and then go back to learn addition and then multiplication. Good instructional order always works up from lower bias to higher bias skills, so that the student's bias will rise. The problem with your order is that the student who has learned a M1@2 Bonus Strike who is next going to learn a M7@3 Penetrate Concealments has a -61 penalty to overcome, from the fact that his mag bias (how well he understands the principles underlying all magic) is 1@2 (12) and the target skill bias (how much understanding of the principles underlying all magic this skill represents) is 7@3 (73), and you have to subtract the target skill from the character bias, giving you 12-73=-61. Sure, he gets bonuses for his BRA (maybe 2@5, given that he's presumably selected for this), half his religion (assuming that all of these are holy magic skills) which is probably high amateur or low professional, so maybe as much as +12 more, and the 15@ bias of the world, and he's still at -9% chance to learn this. The sword teaches, but probably can't give him an example, so he gets teacher and instructor bonuses, and if we make both of those very high but not outrageously high we're probably in the 30 to 40 per cent chance of success range--that's with everything going for the character, and assuming that he is not learning it in an opposed skill situation against a penalty created by the opponent's concealment skill, which is likely to be RS=SM and could take out the rest of the chance of success pretty quickly. You do the 4@7 skill first and you've picked up something around 26% better chance of success on it, and raised your floor by 35% when you do go for the 7@3 skill; but again, you do the 5@5 skill in there, and that has a much better chance of success than the 7@3 (18% better) and increases the chance of success on the other by another 8%. The alternative is that these are all powers of the sword, not skills learned by the user, and fall into the Instant Activation Device category; the user knows nothing about how to perform spells other than that he can use the sword. Bias is critically important to the skill learning process; it is the single biggest factor in chance of success. You want to teach students the simplest skills by bias first, and work them up to the more difficult ones gradually. That ultimately is why we have bias in the game: so that characters have to learn the easy ones first. <blockquote>Create Light Mag 9@1 with Torture Spirit Power Mag 1@10</blockquote> Easy rule to overlook on this point: this will have to be a M9@2 skill, for two reasons. One is that a M9@1 skill will work in any non-negative mag bias, including 0@0, but a M1@10 will only work under a curve of 11, and so the skill can't be usable in a flatlined bias. The second is that 9@1 establishes a curve of 10, and as mentioned 1@10 is a curve of 11, so to incorporate the 1@10 skill you have to set the bias high enough that it will require a curve of 11 to work. 9@2 does that. (If you were incorporating a 2@10 skill, that would require a curve of 12, and you would need a 9@3 or possibly 10@2 skill bias.) <blockquote>Are the Light and the Dark spirits, or ideals? Answer that, and you will know if the magicks are arcane or holy. </blockquote> I'm not sure this follows necessarily. The question of whether the magic is holy or arcane really comes down to the question of whether the power is given by some overseeing deity or deity's minion, or whether it is tapped by the skilled user. If the former, there is a degree to which the skilled user must be acting as an agent of the deity to the satisfaction of the minion--that doesn't mean he's doing exactly what he was told, but that the minion/deity trusts that whatever he is doing or is going to do is in concert with the goals of the deity (even if on their face they appear to be contrary). If the latter, then the skilled user controls the power directly and his relationship to the gods is irrelevant. It also means there's no reason to address questions about the affiliation of the swords. They may have their own individual and/or corporate agenda, but they pick candidates based on whether in their view the candidate will help them achieve their goals (pragmatic), not based on whether the candidate will use them for light or dark specifically (moral). <blockquote>Can the blade sense it's fellow blades?</blockquote> Kind of unlikely--if they could, the Twin Blades would not be lost. Generally, fantasy worlds are not neutral. Heroic Fantasy worlds tend to be Alliance and Dark Fantasy worlds Anarch, giving the edge to their sides. It's not impossible for a neutral world to be a battleground between good and evil, but Neutral Powers tend to be compromisers and negotiators, in which "getting along" is the ultimate goal. --M. J. Young Brock on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20147 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 17:05:35 +0000 Brock 20147@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ @Glantri: The Blade communicates to the Wielder through emotions, not thoughts, as evidenced by the Joining ritual, in an earlier post. As such, it is expected that it would have anger towards the Dark, but whether or not it can be sensed is another matter. @Tadeusz: If the Light and the Dark are spirits, and the Sword's power comes FROM them, then it is holy. If it does not, but the Wielder believes it does...I don't know how to deal with that one. If the power is from the Sword itself...it would probably be holy. If it is merely a focus, and they do not draw the power from the spirits, then it is arcane. If the power is from the Spirits, then Renegade Swordmages will have different spells they can use (as opposed to Swordmages that still serve the Light). If it is not, their spells are likely the same. Good way to tell. The World's Affiliation: If Light and Dark battle constantly, I would imagine it is a neutral world, OR it's affiliation is with the side that is closest to winning. Whichever makes more sense. JohnA1nut on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20144 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 16:19:41 +0000 JohnA1nut 20144@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Not a magic sword, but one I saw in a fantasy movie. The sword had 3 blades, all side by side. The two blades on the sides would fire off of the sword for a ranged attack. Also, when the main blade was broken, the hilt detached, and there was a short sword hidden inside. Just pull out the short sword, drop the rest, and you're good to go. So, it was 4 swords in one. (Doing Therapy) Glantri on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20143 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 15:38:05 +0000 Glantri 20143@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Couple of reasons why this wasn't a violation of board etiquette, in my opinion. First, nothing was really repeated, and everything was put together in clear and concise points. Eric knew what he was writing as he was writing it, but understandably with the length of posts sitting and writing it at one shot wasn't feasible. Second, Everyone knew he was still going to add to it, as his first two ended with the "More Later" comment. We knew they weren't finished thoughts, but we could get a head start on reading what he was saying if we wished. Either way, that's off the topic of the thread. This sounds like a really neat idea, couple of questions about the connection between the wielder and the blade though. Does the blade have emotions? Such as anger when near minions of the dark? Can the wielder sense the blades emotions similar to the feeling of love he feels during his communion with the blade? Does the blade sense the presence of minions of the dark and does it in any way show this? Possibly by glowing or the previously mentioned anger if it has emotions? Can the blade sense it's fellow blades? What about fellow swordmages? This seems like a really cool theme, not sure why the above occurred to me but thought I'd mention them. JohnA1nut on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20142 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 15:14:07 +0000 JohnA1nut 20142@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Legend of Zelda. The sword fires a magical blade in a line of sight attack, at the same damage category as the sword itself. Wasn't one of the powers of Excalibur (Kind Arthur's sword) that he could always tell if someone was lying whilst he was holding it? And he's already ready to slay the liar on the spot. Just an aside, Eric put down 3 long posts in a row. When I do that, people tell me I'm showing improper board etiquette. (Nothing personal Eric, I just felt the need) (Doing Therapy) Tadeusz on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20141 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 14:56:53 +0000 Tadeusz 20141@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ First, I think I want to drop the cross-dimensional thing. What the Order of Swordmages is better is a generic group that can be dropped in to a world to supplement it, or it can be added on to a world to be the primary conflict of a world. A little bit back I wrote up a world in which Gore won in 2000, and MJ pointed out there was not really much of a story to that world. Well, the Swordmages would fit nicely with that, or a bunch of different worlds. It does not even have to be Near-Earths or differing genres like hard-boiled detective, or secret war behind suburbia or whatever. The Order would fit pretty well with a D&D type world as well. In that respect its kind of like my 'Eleven Faces of America' except its the story, not the world that is generic. Now to Brock's points. Yeah, I like that too. You could be a most unprepossessing sort and suddenly you're a HERO (a very novice one granted). There used to be twenty-four in existence. No more can be made, the knowledge is either lost or it was a one-time deal (anyone who knows, if anyone knows is not saying. Even the Chill Ones would not know, but probably a few of the Lords of the Light know and perhaps one of the Great Ones of the Dark.) Four were destroyed in the making of the Shadewall which keeps the Great Ones of the Dark outside our reality. Since then, at least four more have been destroyed in combat with the Dark. At least five others have been Swordtrapped by renegade Swordbearers, and these initial renegades used magic to bind the swords to their use despite the Swords continual rebellion. Since then, two others have been swordtrapped when a Swordbearer was slain, and a Minion of the Dark was able to get a swordtrap on the Sword before it vanished. The five renegades used their swords for transformative of themselves magic powered by vampiric life draining for the purpose of immortality. This spell, over time, transformed them into the Chill Ones. There have also been four other swords gone missing. Two of those swords, the Twin Blades, held secrets of fire magic written on their blades, which have been lost to the Swordbearers. The Light are a group of warrior spirits who do not desire worship. Imagine a French Foreign Legion or good guy mercenary group that was willing to work for any and multiple Alliance deities at the same time. They chiefly desire to war on Evil, and protect the weak. The Dark, a group of them that rebelled at the time of the Great War, is one of their chief foes although they're quite willing to tangle with anyone from Cthulhu to the Demon Brotherhood of the Fourth Abyss. I have not answered all of Brock's questions yet. Brock on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20133 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 02:02:35 +0000 Brock 20133@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Ah, light vs. Dark. Epic Idealistic fantasy at it's finest. I like the Sword, and the fact that anyone who meets the requirements can be chosen. Questions: Can the Swords be made, or are there a set number in existence, and new Sword-bearers are only made when a Bearer relinquishes their Sword (by dying or betraying the Light, I'd guess)? Elaborate on the Code of the Swordbearer as it pertains to bonusing skill usage, please. Also, some numbers wouldn't hurt. Can one become a renegade Swordbearer? What abilities to you gain when doing so? Does the Sword change to Dark, or leave you, or turn on you? Do you have to get a new Sword, a Dark one? Are the Light and the Dark spirits, or ideals? Answer that, and you will know if the magicks are arcane or holy. Brock on "Fifty Magic Limits" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/fifty-magic-limits#post-20132 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 01:45:05 +0000 Brock 20132@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Oh, wow. I should really check the timestamps lol. M. J. Young on "Fifty Magic Limits" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/fifty-magic-limits#post-20127 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 00:38:08 +0000 M. J. Young 20127@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Don't kick yourself, Brock--the last post on this thread before Eric bumped it up for Maxx to see was a year ago. --M. J. Young Tadeusz on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20124 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 00:31:00 +0000 Tadeusz 20124@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Usually about this time a Swordbearer gets hooked up with others, or he faces a Minion of the Dark on his own. One power the Minions particularly like is Pseudoinvisibility, or the Shade. The counter to this is the Piercing Sword or Penetrate Concealments vs. The Shade only, must use sword, follow the Code, and have the sword held in both hands (the Swords are hand-and-a-half weapons). This is a Mag 7@3 spell. This is typically the fourth spell the Bearer learns. The next spell (fifth) is Call Lightning Mag 4@7 which is have sword, hold sword over head (full body involvement), follow the Code, and time factor of thirty seconds (+10 penalty for half time). Most Minions of the Dark are vulnerable to electricity, taking one higher category damage from it than normal. This is bonused +5 for a sit-mod because one of the Great Lords of the Light is the Storm King, and he is the most pugnacious and irritated at the Dark. The next spell (sixth) is Attack-Specific Shields Mag 5@5 or Swordblock Darkflame. Darkflame is a directed energy Lethal magic fireblast of total blackness used by the Minions of the Dark, or it is the physical essence of a Hellhound (Hellhound's bodies are made of Darkflame). Basically, the Swordbearer raises the sword in both hands in a defensive posture and braces. If he passes a strength check (simple), and the spell check, the sword blocks the Darkflame. Must have sword, full body involvement, strength check, follow Code. Seventh spell. Know Character Mag 7@9. Must have sword, held, follow Code. Eighth Spell. Blaze of Light. The Sword glows brilliant white. Must have sword, full body, follow Code. Create Light Mag 9@1 with Torture Spirit Power Mag 1@10 (Lesser Servant of the Dark...Minions, Hellhounds, and Miniture Shadow Chimera, but not the Chill Ones who lead the Dark and are in the number of Greater Servants of the Dark.) The light causes the bearer to squint as its very bright light. Ninth spell. Remove Fatigue Mag 2@1. Tenth Spell. Detect Spirit Powers Mag 7@3. This detects Hellhounds and Minions well, and Chill Ones as well. But the Chimera of Shadow are bred to be spies and are hard to find by eye or magic as they hide, are small, and have the ability to absorb magic seeking them. Eleventh Spell. Blade of Doom. Must have sword, full body involvement, Code, and causes exhaustion afterward with stamina check, and the ranged attack is made for touch only, and the damage is indiscriminate (that is, if a Minion of the Dark were to grab the Swordbearer's wrist and force the blade to touch the bearer it would hurt the bearer). This is a Slay Mag 13@10 spell. Time factor to start this spell is 1 minute 15 seconds which is +20 penalty. Twelth Spell. Drive Back the Dark. Dispel Off-world Sentient and Non-sentient. This requires a sword, full body involvement, Code, and a mad flourish as the bearer charges the target with a scream, and stamina check (strong) for exhaustion afterwards. This is often used to deal with the immaterial Chill Ones as a ranged attack. ============= The Dark rebelled long ago, and some of the Swordbearers went with them, partially to learn forbidden magics. They learned to Imbue Magic into beings as Darkservants (humans with special powers), and to create new weapons, and to change the nature of beings to make new monsters. The hellhounds and the chimera are definitely the result of such experiments by renegade Swordbearers. Also, such Swordbearers learned vampiric magics which allow them to drain the lifespan of people....some think the Chill Ones are the result of Swordbearers doing this to many times and being transformed. There are higher forces of the Dark beyond the Chill Ones, but they do not interact directly with the world hardly ever. The Light are not worshipped by the Swordbearers. They are more of a military force of combative spirits willing to work for any Alliance deity. I'm not sure if the Swordbearers would use Religion or Arcane magic rules. Tadeusz on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20118 Tue, 22 Jun 2010 23:24:56 +0000 Tadeusz 20118@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ The Swords of Light are Operate Active When Held Devices Mag 1@3 and Operate Active By Caprice Devices Mag 1@4 (primarily it follows the user, but it is capable of operating on its own, usually when its user is incapacitated in some way). The first spell a Swordbearer directly experiences is the Empowerment. The Sword utilizes The Choosing which leads it to a proper user. The Empowerment is a Ceremonies NOS where the Sword asks mentally the user without words but with emotions if he will accept the charge of fighting the Dark and serving the Light. If he assents, then he receives the office of Swordbearer. The time for this is nine minutes, full body involvement, and exhaustion afterwards, must have Sword and following the Code of the Swordbearer. As a Swordbearer he is considered a special agent of the Light by all such as know of this (thus a pastor praying whether to help this strange man would likely receive an affirmative for example, and a Minion of the Shadow would know he was facing a dangerous threat, and other Swordbearers would welcome you into their club.) This is the effect of the ceremony. Communing with the sword and those who sent it also brings a sense of affirmation and love from the Light. Some Swordbearers in difficult circumstances repeat this communion because of the sense of love helps them keep going in extremely difficult circumstances. This is whole body, five minutes, must have sword, and following the Code of the Swordbearer. This is Bonus Morale Mag 1@1 for self only. The third spell a Swordbearer typically learns is Bonus Strike Mag 1@2. Must have sword, and follow the Code of the Swordbearer. More later Tadeusz on "World: Order of Swordmages" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-order-of-swordmages#post-20117 Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:24:23 +0000 Tadeusz 20117@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ The Order protects a dozen worlds against the encroachments of the Dark. Each of these related worlds has a high magic bias, and low psionic bias, and the tech bias varies from world to world. The Swords choose their Bearer. After a Swordbearer is struck down, usually by agents of the Dark, it dissappears/teleports (unless caught in a Swordtrap), and seeks out a proper bearer. There does seem to be some sort of guiding intelligence behind the swords or in all the swords or something. It seems as if it can make mistakes, but then sometimes this is not at all the case. The Tale of the Man in the Wheelchair is told to all new swordbearers after they are found. He had almost no fighting ability, but his valiant and hopeless attempt to protect a storeowner who did not speak his language from rioters enchanted by the Dark's minions was witnessed on international television, and it led to the end of the Dark inspired revolution. MORE LATER... I want to have a list of sword inspired magics including 'cut through the dimensional barriers'. This would be a good way for the hero to learn magic in a 'magic school'...already did this once with one world, but several magic school worlds with differing lists of magic would be a good thing. Brock on "Fifty Magic Limits" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/fifty-magic-limits#post-20110 Tue, 22 Jun 2010 17:38:27 +0000 Brock 20110@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Argh. I was going to answer the debate going on here, but MJ already got to it with the same thing I was thinking. The player's knowledge doesn't translate, it's a roll for it, yadda yadda. Maybe I should check the forum more often. Tadeusz on "Fifty Magic Limits" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/fifty-magic-limits#post-20098 Tue, 22 Jun 2010 13:45:02 +0000 Tadeusz 20098@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Bump. M. J. Young on "497 Pizza Toppings" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/497-pizza-toppings/page/2#post-17889 Fri, 02 Apr 2010 21:36:25 +0000 M. J. Young 17889@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ That might be. Actually, "New York Pizza" is called by Italians in New York "Napolitan" (I can't spell it, because it's pronounced "Nap'lee-TAHN"), but I think Pizza Hut pizza is called "Chicago style", and "Sicilian" usually has thicker crusts particularly around the edges, is almost always square/rectangular where Napolitan is usually round (although the "Party Pizza" is a bit uncertain as to exactly what it is, being made rectangular so it will completely fill the box after being removed from the rectangular baking sheet). --M. J. Young Tadeusz on "497 Pizza Toppings" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/497-pizza-toppings/page/2#post-17856 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 21:15:00 +0000 Tadeusz 17856@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I've heard it both ways, but mostly Chicago. I would not have remembered the Sicilian as a deep dish. One factor is probably the Food Network which boosts the rivalry of Chicago and New York City. No one in America is going to much care about the rivalry for pizza supremacy between NYC and Sicily. M. J. Young on "497 Pizza Toppings" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/497-pizza-toppings/page/2#post-17846 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 16:18:44 +0000 M. J. Young 17846@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I'm surprised that you have "Chicago-style Deep Dish". I'm not sure how that is different from "Sicilian", which if made right has a thick bottom crust but edges over an inch high and at least a half inch pool of sauce and cheese within. It's rather difficult to eat by hand while hot, although when it cools it is easier to manage. --M. J. Young Tadeusz on "497 Pizza Toppings" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/497-pizza-toppings/page/2#post-17840 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 12:18:30 +0000 Tadeusz 17840@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ In the Breakfast: List post I tossed out the idea of pre-made 'leftovers' as breakfast. After all, in a culture where eating leftovers is the thing to do for breakfast, in a modern capitalistic society someone is going to realize the need for occasional bought from the store 'leftovers', even if they are not really leftovers. And they would need a word to describe this....thus 'lefan' which sounds sorta like leftover. Let me add 'gluten-free crust'. You could have rice flour, or one of several other flours in the crust. Also a pure cornmeal pizza 'crust' (more of a super thick crust, a solid chunk of inch high cornmeal with pizza on the top) is another idea. So... Gluten-free A. Rice flour B. Some type of bean flour crust. C. Cornmeal, pure D. Not gluten-free cornmeal mixed with wheat flour crust. Crust types 1. Thin 2. Chicago-style deep dish 3. Hand-tossed 4. Cornmeal 5. Cheese in the outer rim 6. 'Crackle'...this is super-thin, and baked to chip-like status. One eats a Crackle crust by breaking off bits of the pizza, and lifting it into one's mouth with the topping somewhat precariously on top of the variously random sized pieces. One can either order a 'full pie' and generally eat out of the common plate, or 'sliced', in which case the whole pizza is cut before the crust is cooked because cutting it afterwards would shatter it. JohnA1nut on "497 Pizza Toppings" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/497-pizza-toppings/page/2#post-17838 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:35:46 +0000 JohnA1nut 17838@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ What is lefan? Tadeusz on "497 Pizza Toppings" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/497-pizza-toppings/page/2#post-17834 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 10:24:40 +0000 Tadeusz 17834@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Second Post. Lefan (my made up word), or cooked and chilled pizza. Tadeusz on "497 Pizza Toppings" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/497-pizza-toppings/page/2#post-17833 Thu, 01 Apr 2010 10:17:45 +0000 Tadeusz 17833@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Day before yesterday I was at the doc's office as the Cuteasuarus had a fever (he's recovering nicely), and saw a box of Marshmallow Peeps in the office window. On its back it stated that people had used Peeps for pizza topping. So one more unless we've already done this one. Peeps. JohnA1nut on "List: Breakfast" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/list-breakfast#post-17735 Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:30:31 +0000 JohnA1nut 17735@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ <blockquote>7. How is breakfast different from any other meal? Special breakfast foods? What nonsense! Now eat your meatloaf, green beans, and mashed potatoes for breakfast. </blockquote> No Eric, this IS the special breakfast food. They eat cereal, pancakes, sausage and eggs etc. every OTHER meal. Eating pancakes for breakfast? That's unheard of. Those are for dinner. Spaghetti and meatballs is the preferred breakfast. Tadeusz on "List: Breakfast" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/list-breakfast#post-17734 Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:21:45 +0000 Tadeusz 17734@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ A. There is a lot I didn't cover. A d20 list is not very long. Let me improve these a bit. 1. Only two meals a day. Lunch which is often called dinner and supper which is the evening meal. 2. The Fruit Bat Special is a combo of fruits and a smaller variety of heavy protein sources of vegetable nature. For some, its dried bananas and peanuts, for others the one listed, and for others its pears in sweet sauce and a spinach salad. 3. This is a large amount of animal protein (pork, chicken, beef, or lamb) prepared in a manly way with another source of animal protein such as eggs (goose, duck, chicken...) or cheese. One way that the poor tend to eat this is the meat roll in which a cheese and egg mix is squirted in to a crepe reinforced by a thin slice of meat. It can be eaten, not on the run, but at a walk. 4. As is. This is a world interested in speed and fitness more than taste or style. 5. As is. The recipes vary considerably. 6. French toast is also done. Keep in mind that America is rather odd in its vast array of breads and danishes and such. Basically every country in Europe had their special thing or things, and America adopted them all. 7. A. As is. The idea of a special meal for special times is weird. Likely they don't eat turkey for Thanksgiving (if they have the holiday) and ham for Christmas. Its likely there is a religious or cultural bent to this that says 'no special celebrations, just do it well every day'. This would be a Low Church world with little ceremony, and no 'bling'. One shows that you are rich by the fine details of superior craftsmanship rather than stacking gold on top of something. B. The idea of breakfast reversed for supper is a good one. 8. The rich eat their danage's which are delivered to their offices by the lady with the meal cart. They have a porcelain plate, or if they are really high up, they have a private dining room with the other execs, but still danages. 9. Largely as is. Sure, the execs sit in the boardroom and wait for the president of the company, and the coffee is served in gold rimmed mugs, and its Blue Kona Hawaii rather than Economy Coffees. 10. Leftovers or Lefan are the breakfast. Lefan is food deliberately made to be like leftovers from the night before. So when you go to the grocery store, you can buy 'Pizza Frozen to be heated' and 'Pizza Preheated and Chilled Lefan'. I suppose that could be something to add to the Great Big Long List of Pizza. 11. Eleven and Nineteen are in some ways opposite of each other. In 11, you have store owners with a vision of providing elegant dining, and a desire to make a solid living but not a killing, and you probably have customers that are A. Mannerly B. Willing to spend time. C. Have good judgement. D. Willing to pay a bit more than some other cultures for food. In Nineteen, you have vending machine kings who intend to make millions from overpriced second rate food, from biscuits that are filled with sausage that is half stale soy flour. They are not generous souls with a vision, but cynics. Their customers are quite often violent to the machines, are not willing to spend time, and have poor judgement. In 11, the rich and the poor both eat in good dining. Of course, the rich is nicer. 12. As is. 13. As is. This is a hardscrabble land with ready access to the sea or a good transport net to bring seafood inland. Taste is second to cheapness and durability and making sure the food has basic necessities of life. 14. As is. This is a joke anyways. 15. About seventy percent of the time, some form of gravy and biscuits is the thing. Sometimes its other forms of gravy in certain locales such as H and H (honey and ham) gravy, and Red Spot Gravy (which is said to be able to kill a cold by inhaling the hot pepper juice laden fumes, let alone eating the 'red spots' of peppers in the gravy.) but the main type is White Sausage Gravy about 70 percent of the time. Its like with Chicken Fried Steak. I've seen it with brown gravy, and even one time (horrors...in Chicago with Yellow Gravy), but CFS is meant to be served with White Gravy. Or at least I hope its like that. 16. Hot chocolate, and other drinks are also-rans but usually available. 17. The rich have their own ways of ostentation, but breakfast ain't one of them. 18. The rich do eat different. Caterers provide plates for them with the foods already prepared and of much higher quality. 19. Meal carts where the food is not much better, but noticeable, and the prices are way higher are provided by the same vending machine kings as chisel the workers. 20. There are a few grits shoppes in Corn Belt areas, and most Oatmeal cafe's offer a second choice. Some few shoppes in the larger cities go ethnic and have up to ten different types of grains. 14. M. J. Young on "List: Breakfast" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/list-breakfast#post-17683 Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:42:44 +0000 M. J. Young 17683@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I don't think you covered "continental breakfast"--coffee (or tea) and a doughnut (or danish). <blockquote>7. How is breakfast different from any other meal? Special breakfast foods? What nonsense! Now eat your meatloaf, green beans, and mashed potatoes for breakfast.</blockquote> I'm inclined to think this is not seeing things clearly. It isn't that breakfast is the same as all the other meals; it's that breakfast is the big meal of the day, and supper is the meal that is something light, like dry cereal or a couple eggs on toast, because you wouldn't want a heavy meal on your stomach when you go to bed. (There are nutritionists who argue for this approach.) Your oatmeal breakfast should include other grain options, such as grits, cream of wheat or Wheateena, barley. I also didn't see a cold cereal variant. A number of your choices seemed to me to be variations of the same, and in particular I am inclined to think that they are inadequate for "this is how everyone in this culture does breakfast", being more like our world in which you can have this or that or the other thing, but always within the specific group. I know a lot of people who think that cold pizza or cold lasagna are a good breakfast even if not leftovers from the night before. Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old--I think John had peas porridge in Dancing Princess, if I remember aright, but he had the good sense not to ask what was in it. They really did reheat it every day, adding something else to it and serving it for breakfast yet again. Yeah. Don't ask. There are also a few that are too narrowly part of the culture instead of the culture itself. Only the wealthy always have breakfast at a restaurant; what do the poor eat in that world? Only the standard working stiff buys his breakfast from vending machines on his way into the office; what are people at home eating, and what is the boss eating who is not in a rush? --M. J. Young Tadeusz on "List: Breakfast" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/list-breakfast#post-17681 Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:32:04 +0000 Tadeusz 17681@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I like to offer GM's the ability to add color to their universes. I think we all have too many universes that are either really weird or generic bland. I'd like more with little details. This goes with my Eleven Faces of America article and other stuff like that. It is truly not the most important stuff I've done, I will agree. As an example... "Waking up, you open your eyes, and get to your feet. The rose-tinted concrete sidewalk under your feet parallels the blue line that borders the black asphalt road upon which three wheeled mini-cars wheel silently. They seem to be electric cars, but perhaps not. The fluorescent green-yellow stop signs at the corner certainly catch your eyes as does the billboard for Kaintuck Broiled Chicken sold by the Major. Of course, its flashy colors are competing with the bright red plaids of the men's kilts and the white wigs of the women, and the jewelled necklaces of the children so that your eyes ache a bit from the profusion of color. You lean your hand against a plastic telephone pole, and cover the laminated on poster for Beethoven Rap...with relief you stumble into Johnny's Omie, and order a Two egg omelette with fried pureed parsnips and yak milk cheese as you try to absorb the weirdnesses of this new universe. It doesn't help when you see a newspaper saying. "Cubs Win Third Straight Superbowl." " JohnA1nut on "List: Breakfast" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/list-breakfast#post-17674 Thu, 25 Mar 2010 12:55:24 +0000 JohnA1nut 17674@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Eric, I don't mean to be shooting you down, but how is this really relevant? In all the time I've been playing this, I think I have had 3 meal scenes played out in two of the five worlds I've been to. Meals don't seem to really be that big of a part of the stories is what I'm saying. EDIT: Strike that. Now that I think about it, there's probably scenarios where every single meal scene is played out and important to the story. Tadeusz on "List: Breakfast" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/list-breakfast#post-17672 Thu, 25 Mar 2010 10:14:08 +0000 Tadeusz 17672@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Let's try for a 1d20 list of breakfast types with the idea that each type is the predominant type in a nation or a world... 1. What breakfast?!? You get up, and get to work after splashing some water on your face. Lunch is the first meal of the day. 2. The Fruit Bat Special: Half a grapefruit (or other tart and juicy fruit in your world. I've read 'redfruit' in some stories.) Sliced up banana with peanut butter. Orange juice. Grapes. Walnuts. {The nuts keep this from being a total sugar rush followed by a collapse}. 3. Steak with egg on top. The manly choice. /deep voice off. 4. Healthy, not so super tasty, but well-balanced protein shakes with all essential vitamins and minerals in strawberry, kiwi, vanilla, or chocolate flavors. Yum! 5. As #4, but more amateur. Tomato juice, two raw eggs (sterilized by radiation), pureed celery, vitadust (vitamin mix), tabasco sauce mixed together. Usually drank with an evil scowl and a wince. 6. Pancakes with syrup and butter with waffle on the side with small sausage. Carbloaders paradise. 7. How is breakfast different from any other meal? Special breakfast foods? What nonsense! Now eat your meatloaf, green beans, and mashed potatoes for breakfast. 8. Danage. A honey bun, sort-of, with sugar encrusted nuts on the outside, and a ham or sausage on the inside nestled alongside a cheese and brocolli mix. Usually bought in a rush at the vendors outside most offices and factories. Burning your tongue on the hot cheese mix is common. 9. Coffee. Give me coffee, and no one gets hurt. /pained voice. Brunch is the first real meal of the day. The first thing everyone does in a day is gather in a loose circle at the place of business with their mug of coffee, and slowly wake up, and have the boss start to hand out daily assignments. This ritual takes about fifteen minutes. 10. Breakfast is leftovers from the night before, usually eaten cold with a cup of coffee or juice. 11. Breakfast is done right. One dines at a proper breakfast house with linen tablecloths, a newspaper or a laptop open to news. Polite quiet conversation is permitted between guests. Meals start with espresso, continue with a cold cuts plate which is followed by some form of potato and vegetable dish (there are dozens of varieties ranging from mashed potato with broccoli cakes to potato pancakes with a green chile sauce [very hot] to stuffed bell peppers with hash browns mixed with tomatoes as the stuffing. The meal ends with a small, and very rich dessert. 12. Panfried potstickers both sweet and savory are served with milk and coffee to a table. Often the insides of the potstickers are a mystery until one bites in. Kids try to guess which ones have the strawberry with jam in them, and not the lightly bbq'ed roast pork. Its typical to eat 2-3 of these. They are lifted from the central frying pan or warming pan with a spatula,and then tossed from hand to hand to cool, or if one is more delicate, placed on a napkin at the table to cool. Its not uncommon for the man of the house to eat a savory roast beef with gravy potsticker while the gravy is still bubbling hot, and affecting not to notice at all (so yes, the locals are used to eating their foods at temperatures Americans would find tongue scorching.) 13. There's nothing like smoked dried fish with a hefty smear of mayo on it, and a pickle to wake ya' up. Add in a cup of hot tea, and you're good to go! 14. Its said that if you eat a frog for breakfast nothing worse will happen to you all day. 15. Good Southern biscuits broken open, still steaming, and white gravy with large chunks of sausage scattered liberally in it and the gravy poured in a very generous fashion over the biscuits. Hot coffee, black (in this world, adding sugar is for sissies and for delicate women), in large heavy mugs is the drink. 16. Coffee. Well sort of. By the time you finish adding the chicory, the vanilla extract, the caramel, the whipped cream, the chocolate syrup on top of the whipped cream, the maraschino cherry on top of that, the dissolving sugar amaretto spoon...and that's just the basic drink, the fancy ones get more exotic, some people might not call it coffee anymore. By law, a 'coffee' drink has to have at least 25% coffee by weight and volume. 17. Omelettes. Almost any type of meat, veggie, and cheese mixture can be found in the numerous 'Omie Shoppes'. Each small, brightly lit shoppe has tiny tables fixed to the walls, and small chairs. Hot coffee is served in small, styrofoam cups (drink all you want, but you have to serve yourself, and its typically served at about 180 degrees to keep you from drinking too much...and yes, legally, no one is liable for burns in an Omie shoppe unless the victim can prove malice.) Its completely normal to have a 'Two egg omellette with lamb brisket, mango chutney, and goat cheese' although this would be yelled 'dulette baa dash many dash cruncher' as the omie shops have their own jargon for their dozens of omellette choices. 18. Meat chunks with pasta with some sauce casseroles are served at the workplaces for breakfast in the breakroom. Larger companies have actual dining rooms, but even the smallest company has breakfast for its workers even if they have to sit outside against the wall of the building. Typically you get a single styrofoam plate full of cheap but filling food and a cup of juice or coffee. A lot of companies cater this out, and breakfast caterers deliver hundreds of yard long tins of tuna casserole, and curlies with white sauce and pork meat peas (very small meatballs), and other such to companies all over the area every workday. The tins are put on a table above heaters, and the workers file in, and fill their plate. Its custom to eat just one plate, although if someone is having a hard time, the company often looks the other way if he fills up a plate to take home to his sick wife or something. 19. There are three vending machines every worker hits on the way into the building if they are early (or they sneak out too if they are late, and need to rush in, and then sneak food later). Typically there are long lines in front of each. The coffee machine, the doughnut machine, and the meat with biscuit machine (or the breakfast burrito machine.) Nothing tastes that good, and the prices are really more than they should be (but the vending machine owners kick back a portion of the proceeds to the company they are located at.) 20. Oatmeal cafe'. Grind your own minibatch of coffee, and make it in the single serving maker on your cafe' table on the sidewalk. Order from the cheerful waitress a bowl of oatmeal with up to fifty different added ingredients. Leisurely eat as you people watch. And if you really want to go hog-wild, you can take on the Monster Bowl Challenge which is four bowls of oatmeal sized bowl with ALL fifty ingredients in it. Eat it all within an hour and its free. Any more ideas? Tadeusz on "497 Pizza Toppings" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/497-pizza-toppings/page/2#post-17123 Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:28:22 +0000 Tadeusz 17123@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I was watching 'Extreme Pig-outs' with the Cuteasaurus, and they showed a Brooklyn chip shoppe that will deep fry practically anything, including pizza. So, take a slice of pizza, put a little flour on it, dip it in the batter, and drop it in the 425 degree oil. So... Batter-fried. Tadeusz on "1d10 List of Guns sorta" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/1d10-list-of-guns-sorta#post-17118 Sat, 27 Feb 2010 18:42:58 +0000 Tadeusz 17118@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Bumping up for Daywalkers. There is also a 'type of bullets' list if John is interested in that. This list should give him a good place to start. Maybe add a few weapons on to this like the .22, and neaten up the list, and edit where needed, and you're good to go.