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Gaming Outpost Discussions » Tag: oddtech - Recent Posts http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/tags/oddtech Gaming Outpost Discussions » Tag: oddtech - Recent Posts en-US Thu, 24 May 2012 10:57:53 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/search.php Tadeusz on "Oddtech?: Cassandra" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-cassandra#post-10304 Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:54:22 +0000 Tadeusz 10304@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ The conspiracy expose' story model typically has a pretty female (our Cassandra) and a doughty male (our verser) (although I reccomend you reverse the sexes if the verser is female.) This gives some romantic interest, and it offers possibilities for her capture by the Cabal and a trade of Incriminating Papers for the Girl. I end it with the girl being weakened by her constant use of her power because I don't want the verser to have too ready access to the future. But she should be able to advise him on matters of great import. Ideally, she gives him a conundrum. A Catch-22 where either obvious choice ends badly, and he has to muster the courage to keep on trying, and the imagination to figure it out. Ideally one of the goals of the early struggle would be for her to tell the Sisters of teh Dream of the treachery of the Master so they won't be a weapon against the verser. Or perhaps one could argue that the Master doesn't want to tell the Sisters at first of the verser as it will spark hard questions. So its only when he becomes desperate that he goes back to teh Sisters and suddenly has a leap in his ability to predict the verser's next action. Of course, the Sisters might be suspicious of him and he might suffer some sort of loss of credibility with them that he would want to repair later, but the verser could use this credibility loss to sell his own story to the Sisters.... Tadeusz on "Oddtech?: Cassandra" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-cassandra#post-10299 Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:37:36 +0000 Tadeusz 10299@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Oh, yes, this is definitely a Story World. If you're not interested in fighting a secret cabal and exposing it, you will very quickly be in another sort of world altogether. A GM could also move the timeline back twenty years, and then roll a GE roll every year to see if the Great War breaks out. In the meantime, one could be an officer in one of the Queendoms or the League, and advance through the ranks, get involved in battles (of which there are plenty), fight pirates, go to dances at ambassador's residences, get mugged for secret papers.... Or you could push things back about a hundred fifty years to the Time of the Bauble States and Martin Piercront is just starting his Union Army. Tadeusz on "Oddtech?: Cassandra" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-cassandra#post-10298 Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:36:03 +0000 Tadeusz 10298@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ First, I appreciate MJ's excellent analysis of 'Evil Triumphant'. I plan to use most of those suggestions, and probably move on to some sort of Random Tables with perhaps a Countdown to Disaster for Local Area and World as well (with each bad event adding one or two points to the Disaster Clock.) But I'm not here for that. This world is Oddtech (at least its based around one technology), Contingency (and how!), and its a Flipper (I've made an attempt to tell stories from the other POV rather than the current PC POV. And this takes a story type and flips it around and mangles it a bit.) In the Piercront League, named for the great Martin Piercront (wonder of the age), there exists a dozen small states taught to love union and the peace it brought from aggressive neighbours. With their hard work, faith in God, and the natural land barriers of low hills supplemented by internal rail networks to move troops from any of the states to a threatened border, they finally found security intead of being the 'baubles of the Queens of Tilune'. Tilune is the large continent the long-suffering peoples of the League had lived in, and most of its rulers were hereditary noblewomen. So they were not enthused in the slightest when a male republican set up shop, and denied them their favorite method of counting coup on each other which was to grab one of the Bauble States from another queen. Those who think that feminine rulers are more peaceful have never been to Tilune where the Queens elevated hair-pulling to the pulling down of city walls, and scathing retorts to the burning of cities and for remarkably trivial reasons, at least from the perspective of those who were peasants. However time and change come to all, and with the rise of the Piercront League and the end of the Founding Wars (and Martin was not only a brilliant constitutionalist, but a masterful general.), and the Long Peace was brought to Tilune. Prosperity threatened old social arrangements, and so the Queens grew more parliamentary, and even a King or two was named among their number. And yes, the doctrine arose that if men were in charge the world would be a peaceful place. But the stresses of the social changes built up, and they either sparked change (and caused stress), or did not spark change (and caused more stress.) Some suspect that the human race needs a good bloodletting now and then to relieve their injured feelings. The Queens rule grew more fragile with Taric, and Yomsli, and Dobar being the reactionary aristocratic states, and Lawnei and Wuf, and Arond being various forms of progressive (and not in the modern Earth form of progressive which is not.) with Dimo wobbling back and forth, and Sulnak trying to be in the middle of every curve and annoying everyone on all sides, but not that much. These are the states nearest the Piercront League, that either surround it, or have ready access to it by crossing a neighbour's thin part of her country or by jumping in a boat and crossing the Marink Sea which is where the primary seaports of the League sit. But even as others change to mimic the League, the League changes to mimic them. A secret cabal, a rebirth of aristocracy but without the name, has begun to run things in the League. Men of power and discretion are invited to join, and given a few facts after the extraction of a blood oath which is a very serious thing. There is a technique available for a woman to dream and for her to enter the future and see the results of a decision made. With this cabal in control, the Master of the Secret can make a decision, and then summon a dreamer. If his decision is wise, the dreamer will return with good news, and he will follow through on it. If the decision is unwise or unlucky, then he will change his decision. This process lasts for nearly fifty years, and although an aristocracy is being recreated in the League, in truth, they are a smart, and honorable sort with a broadminded interest in the whole, and only favor themselves to some small degree so its not that bad although some of the more sensitive sort realize they are less than citizens in their own land. But the great decision is upon them. War threatens at every hand, and the children of the last generation have risen to power unusually young. Its whispered in some courts that they rose by climbing over their elders' backs by using daggers as pitons in the back of those elders. And they would have peace. They believe in kindness and sweet reason, especially the new Master. And so he summons dreamer, and dreamer and keeps getting the same message with variations back. ...the capitol of the League burnt with fire... ..Plague sweeping the last of the able-bodied men the Great War did not kill... ...Murderous oppression with one in ten of his people decimated... Each decision he checks comes back with a new answer, but always a terrible one. So one day his clerk lies and tells the dreamer that the Master no longer longs for peace but is preparing for war to the knife against all foes. The dreamer comes back and tells the Master that the future is grim and dark, but his people survive. Trenches line every hill and fortresses rise from every defensible point, but the people are free, healthy, and after the Queens have battered their forces to dust on the League's defenses it seems they may be ready to sue for peace. Enraged, he kills the clerk on the spot. "I want peace,a nd you tell me only warmongering lies!" He screams, and she sees madness, so she runs for her life. And when she runs, she finds safety for a night and dreams to go left or right, and gradually her dreams lead her to the one man who might be able to save her, and her people. Dreamed out, near shattered by the exertion, she arrives on the spot where the verser will arrive. She greets him and inducts him into her conspiracy to overthrow the Secret Cabal and save the League. If he refuses, then quickly go to the War and the Aftermath which will be slaughtering armies and burning cities and plague and starvation. If he accepts then the verser is recruited into a much used tale. The tale is of a secret cabal dominated by a madman not willing to listen to reason. Usually this tale is of a warmongering lunatic, but here its a peacemongering lunatic who's willing to assasinate for peace, and probably will end up trying to create coup of the Smart Set to overthrow the republic. The tech level is eighteenth century with wooden ships and iron men, cannons and earthen work city walls replacing curtain walls, with plague, cholera, and typhoid being as deadly or more so than grapeshot and city fires. In this respect, its different than what I had in mind at first which was a modern world like the US with a peacemongering cabal, but Tudor houses, sword duels in the misty morn, bayonet armed musketry, cavalry.... Secret societies fit well in that. But you could easily use one of the Ten Faces of America worlds and make it about nuclear war and the contingency then becomes post-apocalyptic instead of poorly disciplined armies ravaging the land. Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Seventy Spires" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-seventy-spires#post-9148 Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:51:03 +0000 Tadeusz 9148@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ No, I don't think I did. M. J. Young on "Oddtech: Seventy Spires" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-seventy-spires#post-9130 Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:58:33 +0000 M. J. Young 9130@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I knew that; that wasn't really the question. My thought was that it would be possible to do a zepellin-based trade route on a rather ordinary early twentieth century earth-like world. The map would be very like that of Mary Piper Alpha, although whether it would all be ocean is an open question. Thinking of it, I can imagine Rough Passage being a section of broken volcanic lands where the combination of rising peaks, potential eruptions, and unpredictable air currents makes navigation extremely hazardous. Probably the world would also need a pterodactyl-like monster, or a few suggestions for creatures that would serve the "sea/space monster" slot. The idea is to be as close as possible to the alpha and beta scenarios, so you can use the same names for ports, for trade goods, for routes, and the same tables for obstacles and events and such. I wondered, since you've got an entire Greek Alphabet's worth of such worlds, whether one of them covered this approach. (I personally do not consider it to be a "valid" Mary Piper clone if <ol> <li>it is not a trading ship on a regular route</li> <li>the port and travel events tables are not used in ways analogous to the examples of the original</li> <li>the ports do not retain much the same character, in terms of goods and population, e.g., Haven is agricultural, Tempest bans weapons, Tristar has a hazard that limits access on a sliding scale</li> <li>Emerald is not a substance that is readily available at Emerald and in high demand at the other ports, obtained from a place where primitive beings are apt to attack ships attempting to take it.</li> </ol> However, I can see possibilities for the zepellin trade route, and wondered if you'd included that on your list.) --M. J. Young Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Seventy Spires" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-seventy-spires#post-9122 Mon, 02 Feb 2009 00:28:29 +0000 Tadeusz 9122@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I had the Shattered Earth Mary Piper which had the following: 1. Contest between Athena (trade and civilization) and Ares (barbaric independence). 2. A world shattered by Mankind's supertech. Man leaves the area. 3. Earth is now chunks of floating rock in a breathable gas cloud. 4. Something like Eight Races of intelligent animals. Balsom was a Panda Samurai. 5. Some magic, some psi (Navigators were Psionic Seers). 6. Newtons' Third Laws got seriously bent. 7. Magic Talents. Certain people were supernaturally good, or Gifted, at certain jobs. 8. A bit steampunkish. 9. Old Human Tech in ruins. Thats the one you're talking about. Donna ran something like it for a bit. I'm currently (sorta) putting Oak through it, and he's learning to be a samurai under Balsom by imitating the Karate Kid training techniques...in other words, he's a deckhand although he also has to 'enjoy' tea ceremonies and write analysis of samurai moral dilemnas. It has the Steampunkish Zeps with the fans blowing into the sails. You botched with TK into flying off your ship, and then botched again as you crashed into a Shattered Chunk, or something like that. M. J. Young on "Oddtech: Seventy Spires" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-seventy-spires#post-9112 Sun, 01 Feb 2009 23:07:20 +0000 M. J. Young 9112@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Not quite on topic--is one of your Mary Piper variants a zeppelin? It strikes me that a world similar to the Alpha version with isolated citystates rather than nations but with early twencen tech could work with minor revisions. (You know my feeling about Mary Piper--for it to be a real Mary Piper variant it has to be a trading route, and you have to match port and travel events to something similar. In this case, I can see a tornado standing for a whirlpool/black hole, but I'm not sure what takes the place of the iceberg/comet.) --M. J. Young Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Seventy Spires" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-seventy-spires#post-9099 Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:25:07 +0000 Tadeusz 9099@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Let me add a few things...1. The original summer cottages on the Spires are made of 'chronofixed granite' which means in the distant future when a comet cracks the planet, that several hundred 'cottages' will be found, still undamaged, floating in the wrack and ruin of the planet. This heightens the independence of the separate spires because there are no weapons on the planet that could even scratch a 'cottage'. 2. In their language 'cottage' has different connotations than in ours. 3. Occasional reckless men travel to the continent to try to loot something of Oldtech. They usually die. Sometimes they succeed and bring back a still powered item (the cottages were powered by a satellite net and have no electrical power). Sometimes they bring back something nasty which kills everything on an island (several islands are Forbidden for this reason), and why getting caught Treasurehunting usually merits the Long Swim (where they take you out twenty miles to sea, and toss you out of the baloon. If you get back to shore, your sentence is commuted.) OTOH, its rumored that the Grand Thane of the Calanth Moot still has a working laser blaster... Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Seventy Spires" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-seventy-spires#post-9098 Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:03:25 +0000 Tadeusz 9098@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ The continent of Alsus is periodically ravaged with nano-plagues from the Settler's War, and the always present danger of Viper Cats, a gengineered breed of jaguar with the speed of a low-flying plane in full charge, venom that has more in common with sarin than rattlesnake toxin, and a disposition that starts at 'Kill everything' and gets progressively nastier as it gets hungrier. In an effort to escape the insanity brought on by the Hopeful Ones, the Grim Folk, their erstwhile servants set out in boats for the summer cottages on the island chain, the Seventy Spires off the coast of Alsus. Upon arriving, they knew that the Hopeful would follow them if they could, and use the boats inbuilt computers to draw the boats back, so they sunk all the boats in deep water.Then they let the various factions of Hopeful Ones kill each other off. The plagues and the Viper Cats are some of the things the Hopeful Ones left behind. Now, the Grim Folk were called such because they had a view of the tragic nature of life, and didn't believe in Utopias or Glorious Futures. They were also called that because they had a strong tendency to be the hewers of wood and fetchers of water to the more politically connected Hopeful Ones, and thus they felt a little put upon and grim. Some might think the Grim Folk were the ones who did most of the actual work for little of the actual pay or respect. But once they got to their separate islands, for they were not city-loving folk, and so they scattered, they found they needed trade. At first it was doctors, and then engineers. Later it was merchants. The largest island, Calanth, has four Spires, or mountains above four thousand feet, and a total size of ten square miles. This is typical, except most islands have only one Spire. There is very little flat land to farm.There are a few poor ports, but most are rocky and hazardous, and prone to the occasional volcanic laval interruption. So when one of the Grim Folk re-invented from a historical text the Hot Air Balloon, it was a revolution. That first five years had been very rough, but the Balloon started to ease things. From there, it took about twenty years to get up to the point where there was a fleet of Zeppelins servicing all the islands on a schedule. And where there were other Zeppelins to be had for hire. And of course...Air Pirates. Its a rough life, but with the hydrogen from the volcanoes, and the Zeps, and goats that climb the near vertical slopes in search of food, and the balloon fishers who go out from some islands to net fish, the Grim Folk get by. Each Spire is independent politically, but there is the Grand Moot where all meet for two weeks once a year, and where various deals get hammered out, and duels are settled, and new Zeps bought, and pretty girls meet handsome air pilots. It is of course, on Calanth. And there you go, O7, a Zeppelin world for your use... Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Carwinia" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-carwinia#post-9097 Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:42:26 +0000 Tadeusz 9097@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Nikolaj, I'm glad you like "Oddtech". 07, I'm sure I've mentioned my parallel Steampunk worlds which do have zeppelins. Nikolaj on "Oddtech: Carwinia" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-carwinia#post-9064 Thu, 29 Jan 2009 04:35:59 +0000 Nikolaj 9064@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ lol, I think I saw that episode :) Mythbusters rule! johnosevens on "Oddtech: Carwinia" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-carwinia#post-9057 Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:55:28 +0000 johnosevens 9057@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I want to see a world where Zeppelins never went out of style. Where people realized the Hindenberg was a bad idea not because it was a blimp, but because it was painted with rocket fuel (Mythbusters ftw) and moved on. Nikolaj on "Oddtech: Carwinia" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-carwinia#post-9034 Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:54:59 +0000 Nikolaj 9034@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ And another fun thing would be if a verser verses in with a car that is of one of the worshipped brands, right? He would be called a god or a messenger of the gods. :P I like these Oddtech worlds. It would be cool if my next world would be in one of those I think. Lot's of exploring and discovering to do. Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Orion" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-orion#post-6392 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:45:01 +0000 Tadeusz 6392@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I've got the non-fiction book written by the son of Freeman Dyson, one of the scientists involved. Its definitely called Orion in the book. However, I suspect that it got renamed by the '80's for your Omni article to Daedalus, and the plans got refitted a bit to avoid that whole 'multiple airbursts' in atmosphere thing. However, yes, the no nuke testing aboveground treaty did put the kibosh to the Orion project. This of course, suggests an alterate reality. Daedalus version: Chemical rockets to get to orbit, and nukes from there. Its basically rowboats and clipper ships all over again. It does take longer to get started because you're trying to build the clipper ship off-shore, and so the raging economic boom does not kick in. But, from the distance of several centuries in the future, you might not notice much difference. And there is substantial economic growth, just not enough to totally derail the Computer Age for several decades. The Russians collapse as they did in our timeline. Reagan's Star Wars was a key factor in outfacing the Russian Soviets. Here its Reagan's Icarus spaceships. The Icarus spaceships are the ones for Solar System travel. Much of the increase in wealth is used for building the ten mile long Daedalus, but SPS' and other things get built. The cost of electricity drops drastically by nearly 70%, and with some effort the country tranfers to electric cars. Also the Computer Age makes things a lot smaller, lighter, and more intelligent. Bill Gates makes several hundred million dollars in this timeline instead of tens of billions in the Prime timeline. In 2000, the cutting edge PC is a 386 with Windows 3.0. One advantage of the somewhat slower computer release schedule is greater quality control, and less bugs. Apple computer does better in this timeline as do several other computer companies. Microsoft does not obtain a monopoly or near it. The Chinese Communists stay 'communist', but in reality 'fascist'. They harness capitalism to government aims, and try to keep the US from noticing them. A worldwide crew is selected for the Daedalus, and over a thousand people (400 of them American) set out for a star in 1995. Already, the second giant starship, the Millenium, is being built. Its hoped that it will launch in the year 2001. These starships are formed of asteroid material. There is considerable benefit to the environment in this world. There is almost no increase in radioactivity, and the cars do run cleaner. However, only a few factories are off earth, and so the air is not as crystalline clear as it is in the Orion variant world. =============== Thats a little slapdash, but I think it works. And again, its not a world with huge problems. For MJ's worlds, its more Mary Piper than that Army of Darkness inspired world. You can find trouble. You can find adventure or schooling if you like. You can volunteer, and maybe succeed in becoming an interstellar crewman, or learn how to be a factory hand in zero g on the Daedalus, or join in the Outer Planets missions run by NASA, and using the Icarus ships. Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Carwinia" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-carwinia#post-6390 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:24:07 +0000 Tadeusz 6390@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Low metals--low fossil fuels....the first reminds me of Majipoor by Silverman? A giant planet with Earth gravity because it had almost no metal in its mass. For a straightforward biolume, decentralized power distribution world...your suggestion would work quite well. Carwinia is a bit more than that, although maybe I can make a straightforward world as well. Secondly,I like the 'walk backwards' thing you're describing. I should add that. M. J. Young on "Oddtech: Orion" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-orion#post-6384 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:48:49 +0000 M. J. Young 6384@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Three points from the back of my memory: <ol> <li>I heard this plan under the name Daedalus. It was on the drawing boards in the late fifties and early sixties, before the first treaties on nuclear proliferation banned the use of bombs in space. The concern was not that nuclear explosions might be used for propulsion, but that someone might establish ICBMs with nuclear MIRVs in orbit, giving them a particularly direct way of attacking the surface. The movie Space Cowboys included the assumption that the Russians violated this treaty and built a launch platform in space but never used it. It's not a particularly likely scenario. In any case, the agreement that no one would put nuclear explosives in space put the kabosh on the Daedalus project. I read about it in Omni in the early 80's.</li> <li>No part of the plan included atmospheric detonation of nuclear explosives. Ships of the size described would be built in orbit and then propelled from orbit by nuclear blasts (fasten your seat belts, please). Any increase in radiation would come from fallout finding its way through the atmosphere, but the amount of radiation generated by nuclear explosives is minimal compared to the amount which hits the atmosphere from the sun, and thus it is assumed that the same protections that keep most of the solar radiation out would do the same for this slight increase.</li> <li>Daedalus was envisioned as an interstellar project. In theory, half a dozen explosions well-timed and placed could accelerate the ship to upwards of eighty percent of the speed of light, and then a similar number could decelerate it as it entered another star system. At 80% LS the nearest star could be reached in five years, and because of time distortion it would seem like considerably less time for the travelers (I think about one year, but the math is more complicated than I can do).</li> </ol> --M. J. Young M. J. Young on "Oddtech: Carwinia" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-carwinia#post-6382 Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:25:09 +0000 M. J. Young 6382@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Randomly scattered thoughts. <ul> <li>My reaction to the bioluminesence and bioconstruction world was that you could achieve this much more easily by making a world short on metal and nearly devoid of fossil fuels. This would make electrical generation and transmission by mechanical means cost prohibitive, and encourage alternative approaches.</li> <li>Something Ed and I have both done that might work for this world is a reverse chronology visiting schedule: you have the verser arrive first at the end of the story, and then after he's been to a few other worlds you return him to the middle of the story, and then a few worlds later you return him to the beginning of the story. I did it with Narnia, and had a great deal of fun having Dryads recognize the verser as an ancient king of Narnia returned at its time of need, when the verser was clueless about this. Ed did it to me in Vampire Chicago, having a slightly bonkers wizard insist that I was Merlin and had taught him all he knows and then sending me back to meet Merlin and later to teach that slightly bonkers wizard all he knows. I admit to recasting that idea with Lauren Hastings and Bethany of Wandborough in Verse Three, Chapter One and its sequels. Here you could start the verser in the riots and see how they play out, then bring him back for the rise of the great cities, then bring him back to the cataclysm. Part of the fun is seeing whether he realizes this is the same world.</li> </ul> --M. J. Young Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Orion" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-orion#post-6378 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:45:03 +0000 Tadeusz 6378@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ Good. No, you're not getting the wrong impression. But I think you're attributing more damage than might be justified. And perhaps launches would all come from the same place. And yes, the first few bombs going off would cause most of the bad effects. Night. WilliamTWodium on "Oddtech: Orion" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-orion#post-6375 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:51:30 +0000 WilliamTWodium 6375@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I actually support nuclear power over coal. I just got the impression that this spaceship propelled itself by means of nuclear bombs, which is another matter entirely. You know, ash/soot, ground on which it exploded uninhabitable for decades, all that jazz. Am I getting the wrong impression? Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Orion" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-orion#post-6374 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:18:46 +0000 Tadeusz 6374@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ That said, no, I'm not an expert. But before you get too enthused about defending Coal...it releases radiation in the atmosphere as well. :) And I did write and perhaps publish a Nuclear Winter setting a couple years ago. I'm a bit of a Hack. I'll write all sorts of things even stuff I don't necessarily agree with. I wrote a world a few years back based on the premise: France is right (in the dispute that was then going on between America and France over Iraq in the UN). I like the excuse Multiverser gives me. Every world, even the ones that don't make sense, exists somewhere, somewhen. Now maybe I should have more complications in this world because its pretty much 'roses all over', but thats not always a bad thing. I've read books that were like that. A world like that would be a fine place to teach yourself stuff. And I think this might be a good thing for me. I have a tendency to be too bloodthirsty and too dramatic. A normal world where you have to hunt down trouble instead of my usual take where trouble hunts you down might be a good idea for me to grow as a GM. I am not a scientific expert. But I think the enviromentalist stance against nukes and nuclear power is at the very least, over-excited. France gets 60% of their electricity from Nukes, Japan 80%. These are not dumb people. But I'm not sure what more effect there should be than a few people killed, and spectacular sunsets. Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Orion" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-orion#post-6373 Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:16:30 +0000 Tadeusz 6373@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I think they calculated that 1.5 people worldwide or so would die from the effect. Given that supposedly around 20,000 a year in America die from the side effects of coal.... Also, there's the "J-curve" for radiation. A little bit of radiation is good for you. High mountain states have less cancer (I know, it might be another variable). The theory goes that a bit of radiation invigorates you, a bit more is even better, a bit more is the same, a bit more is worse, and worse, and then finally you get enough that you're worse off than if you had no radiation, and it keeps continuing up the slanting vertical of the tilted J until you're dead. I'm assuming more spectacular sunsets would be one effect, and probably a general mild increase in health and vigor of the human species would be another effect. WilliamTWodium on "Oddtech: Orion" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-orion#post-6372 Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:21:59 +0000 WilliamTWodium 6372@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ So, no long-term consequences for setting off nukes in atmosphere every time we launch an Orion? Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Orion" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-orion#post-6371 Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:01:14 +0000 Tadeusz 6371@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ It occurs to me that I may not have described the idea I had for this world. This is a rip-roaring, great fun idea well-suited for a SF novel about a Brave Innovative Research Team taking things a massive leap into the future. Except, its true. *This is not based on the current Orion NASA craft, but on an idea that got worked on in the late '50's and later. The Orion is a giant flat plate on hydraulic springs with a Coca-cola machine dispenser (scaled up) to drop nuclear bombs out underneath the plate. It sounds insane, but it should work. They built a test model with conventional explosives which worked, and actually the larger you make the thing, the more stable it is. They were seriously considering making a manned trip to Saturn with a 4,000 tonne spaceship, and arriving by 1975 with a five year mission with a crew of about ten. For scale, the Indian Navy, in 2004, started using a guided missile frigate which weighed 4,000 tonnes. This Orion is a SpaceSHIP, not a shuttle or a capsule or a lander. So, in this other reality, they did just that. The Russians were terrified. So were the Chinese. It made the Americans boisterous earlier than the eighties, and Communism collapsed that much earlier. It was a bit more blood than velvet in our reality, but in this reality, the Chicoms fell as well. With the expansion into space, it became possible to put up Solar Power Satellites and O'Neill Asteroid Balloon Space Stations. Kwh's dropped to micro-pennies. The economy boomed as factories roared. At first, the enviros were horrified, but then Off-Earth Factories became the rage in the Space Age. Instead of Microsoft and Apple, it was Nuclear Rockets, Inc. and Near-Earth Manufacturing, Inc.. The computer age, and the PC age stayed slow and calm with new and improved versions of Dos coming out every five years or so. With Off-Earth Factories, the pollution rate dropped. Also, helping in this was the turnover from Coal-fired plants to SPS power. Add in electricity being cheap enough that a nationwide network of Charger Stations was built so that the relatively poor batteries of the day could get charged every fifty miles. Of course, with everyone using electric cars the batteries got better a lot quicker. And the pollution level dropped even further without millions of internal combustion engines. Economically, it was a return to the 1950's for America as the middle class expanded and grew in wealth and stability. This was a world more suited to the Ordinary Guy who liked a bit of handwork and brainwork instead of the Computer Age which more favored the Nerd. With this massive outpouring of wealth, the Second Marshall Plan was able to begin seriously reinvigorating Russia and China (after they disarmed.) There were some hard-core militarists in both nations who refused the 'devil's bargain' of massive investment aid in exchange for demilitarization, but vast majorities in both countries favored the deal. And in return, both countries became wealthy in space, and fairly pacifistic (not as pacifistic as Japan was, but close). Some of these militarists went so far as to become terrorists and this formed a continual problem for the peaceful majorities in America, Russia, and China. Orion spacecraft became even larger with the largest one in the year 2000 being the Star of Bethleham which weighed in at a 100,000 tonnes (larger than some cruise ships). The Outer Planets were studied by the US Space Guard (descended from the Navy and Air Force). Asteroids with their huge loads of metals were towed into Earth Orbit. These asteroids were mined, and then with giant lasers they were 'ballooned'. That is, a laser would fire down the long axis, heat the interior, and allow the asteroid to expand and form a hollow interior. After cooling, this became a space colony. By 2000, there were four space colonies like this in orbit. By 2010, there were thirty-five. And then the Computer Age struck in earnest. It had a better basis as the Dos code had been used for decades and was very reliable. But, this also made it faster once it did strike. ================= I'm pretty sure I did a variant on this before, but that's okay. Tadeusz on "Oddtech: Carwinia" http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/oddtech-carwinia#post-6369 Sun, 03 Aug 2008 22:06:59 +0000 Tadeusz 6369@http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/ I've had the notion for Oddtech. That is, a civilization founded on technology which is workable for us, but we might not choose to use it. Steampunk is not an example as 'punk tech works on part-magic principles. A good example is an Orion nuclear bomb propelled 4,000 tonne payload spaceship. We could do it, but we chose not too as releasing several hundred or so airburst nukes seemed unacceptable for a rocket flight. That is Oddtech. I've thought that it would be nice to do a series of worlds based on Oddtech, and also on Oddpsionic. Carwinia does not have most of modern technology. Instead, they have genetic engineering of plants and bacteria. Lights at night are provided by genertically engineered bioluminescent squash, for example. Houses grow from pumpkins (what else?). There are problems with power transport. No national electrical grid is possible in their circumstances. Energy transport is dangerous, chancy, and hard because it means carrying "Rocket Cane" which is sugar cane gengineered to hold nitrocellulose in its veins...highly explosive and unstable. Hence, the power transport is primitive, and decentralized. Most people grow their own power with Sunflower Weeds that often cursed, but very useful combination of Kudzu and Sunflower and Photovoltaic Cells. Its often cursed because it grows like Kudzu, and it somewhere in the gene-modding, perhaps from a gengineer with a curious streak, picked up a tropism for protecting itself via reflecting sunlight into the eyes of mammals nearby. Carwinia developed from a modern world circa 2180. And then the Smash came when a comet from Jupiter flew, and smashed into Earth. Instant return to Stone Age tech for survivors. Centuries later, things started to get more organized. A kind of High Middle Ages complete with a Warming Period brought a blossoming of prosperity which led to the Learned Men which led to a blossoming of cultural life and intellectual inquiry. It is in this time that the first of the Great Cities became Great, and Kingdoms were founded. In Brandyland, so named for its peach brandy, the town of Seigeiceau became great, and from it the Wine Kings ruled the Kingdom of North Brandyland. For, all the technology had been smashed by the Smash and the ensuing centuries, but searchers into ancient things found something that took Carwinia from the Middle Ages tech to a much higher level. In the CGC buildings (Centre for Genetic Control in the Olde Tongue) there were strains of bacteria, and instructions in those bacteria (written in the very code of life by desperate researchers before the Smash). The 'Red' buildings were destroyed with their Death Virii, but the 'Useful Friends' had been growing by themselves for centuries in underground vaults. In the space of two generations, village men whose grandfathers had lived by smoking torches now had clean, calm, safe bioluminescence, and in the great cities many further wonders were possible. The Learned Men were rewarded for their help to society and enormous universities sprang up. The work of an Archeologist became greatly honored. The first generation of professional Archeologists found wonders, and many mysteries. One mystery they found were cars, and trucks by the hundreds and then thousands. This had the effect of strenthening the religion of the time which was the worship of the Five Gods. For some thought that these cars and trucks had run by divine power because no other cause could be seen for their running. Each type of car was identified with one of the Five Gods, and indeed there was an uncanny match to all this in a twisted sort of way. Gem, the Lord of Learning and Master of Creation (GM) The Hand, He who Crafts Well and Works Hard (Honda) Toyman, The Jester, the Playful One (Toyota) Shover, The Lord of Ambition and of Death for in the end we all are pushed to the grave. (Chevy) Nissa, The Winged Lady of Victory and Adulation (Nissan confused with Nike) And the land greatly prospered, and trade links between Seigeiseau and We-art-rid (USAMRIID) and other Great Cities were strengthened, and war came between such cities. And it was so that the bounty of discovery was fading with the passage of generations for there remained few things to find, and the trade routes were firm and wide for the rich carvan masters who took camels through the tiger infested wastelands far from the Great Cities. And then a great man came to stand as Learned Man in the SGC University. He taught, nay preached although he disdained that word, that Cars were the distant ancestors of Trucks. That such vehicles as the Sub-a-rue, which the followers of the Five Gods tried to fit into their theology as an angel was actually the ancestor of Four Wheel Trucks with combat capabilities shown by their 'rifle racks'. The 'Rebel Yell' truck was the evolved descendant of the Sub-a-rue. The Truck was larger, and more complex. It also had the ability to defend itself better which probably meant that when it had mutated to be on the scene, it had quickly wiped out all the Sub-a-rues. This further meant that the 'Semi rigs' which were found mainly on the kings highways of that olde tyme were the most evolved predators, and they had probably been in the process of destroying the Rebel Yell trucks and spreading everywhere when the Smash destroyed everything. It was good evolutionary logic. The larger, more complex descended from the smaller, and simpler. One of the descendants of the great man who went by the name Lord Chuck, and this man was named Lord Hustler, was a famed pit bull of a man who came to reside at the President's Office of the University to this day. He affirmed the notion that the Smash had not happened. Granted, there were thousands and thousands of cars and trucks, and this gave the appearance of some massive disaster overfalling them, but in truth, these creatures had been slowly buried over the millenia. He estimated that it would take nearly ten thousand years for a Sub-a-rue to be buried, and twenty thousand for a Semi Rig. Thus, the Olde Tymes, if they had at all been real as they were in song and myth (and how unreliable is all that?) had to have been at least twenty-five thousand years ago. This had the benefit of distracting people from the fact that the Great Universities were not producing very much anymore. This was due to two facts. One, they had gotten fat, dumb, and happy in their privilege. Two, the digs where they had found so much information were mostly played out. The new benefits to society came from young men and women who were trying to advance the work of genetic engineers, and make new advances of their own. Unfortunately, the Universities sucked up most of the research funds. And the Universities attacked the New Researchers as 'dangerous fools thinking they can improve on the work of the Ancient Gengineers.' because those in charge of the Universities could clearly see the threat from the New Research Movement. And on another front, there was the Intelligent Designers who generally worshipped the Five Gods, but not always. They produced mountains of information, and clear lines of logic which called Lord Chuck's theory into question. In return, the Universities castigated them as 'backwards villagers trapped in superstition.', and organized travelling road shows at the King's expense to persuade the villagers of their stupidity. The villagers began to grumble about the virtue of tar and feathers, and the Universities responded by pressing the King to make the attendance of the Travelling Shows to be mandatory, and to increase the cost of attendance. Squeezed by the pocketbook for taxes were heavy, and economic progress had slowed, and taunted as stupid by Learned Men who seemed stupid, the villagers simmered and the ID discontent spread even as Lord Chuck's followers grew more strident. And the verser arrives... Well, actually, there are a number of good places for the verser to arrive. He could arrive before the asteroid hits, and be part of the frantic preparations to save something of modern learning. He would also be well to arrive in the days when the Great Cities arise. And for comedic effect, and revolution he could arive in the days which later became called the Age of Illogic, and the University Riots (which were more like war than riots) and the Peasants' Revolts which led to the ... 1. If successful, the Age of Capitalist Republics and Freedom of Thought. 2. If unsuccessful, into the Dagger Wars as social trust declines, and the trade routes are shredded, and disorder spreads on the wings of riot, famine, and assasination of 'friends' as a means of changing policy. This leads to a slowly declining, and fraught with shadowy terror world as the political system crumbles. Eventually someone develops and unleashes a Death Virus, and things go from Bad to Really Horrible to Total Collapse very quickly. A millenia later, mankind has another chance to climb up from the apocalypse of lies.