Gaming Outpost Discussions

1. 

   Tadeusz
   Member

   Much of this is a reorganization of the Music Wars data. It is not a completed draft. So, MJ, you've been warned...

   The following is as most rules in role-playing games: Optional. The Referee (or as I prefer the Gamemaster) is free to alter the numbers below. In point of fact, there are no doubt good reasons to do so. But, if you're in a mood to tinker, this gives you a good starting place. And if you need a quick set of stats to arm your villainous gunslinger with then you're most welcome too...

   1D20 List of Modern Projectile Weapons
   ======================================

   1.==Weapon:Mary Piper Epsilon: Old West Derringer: Range 2’: 5’: 15’:X: -10 SM to hit: Two shots: Lethal damage: RF 1
   The pearl-handled friend of ladies of ill repute and gamblers also resides in many more honest hands. It is occasionally stored in a rig in the sleeve which enables its use as an initiative stealer weapon.

   2.==Weapon:Mary Piper Epsilon: Old West Colt Peacemaker: Range 10’: 20’: 30’: 40’:+2/1‘: Six shots: Lethal damage: RF 3.

   This widely famed revolver is found in most Western movies. The longer the barrel, the more accurate the weapon. These numbers assume a six inch barrel.

   3.==Weapon: Winchester rifle: Range 20’: 60’: 120‘: 240’: +10 SM to hit: Lethal Damage RF 2

   4.==Weapon: Flamethrower: It does Lethal damage with a Dangerous rider every turn until the target is stopped from being on fire by a Difficult attribute check, or by a Fire-fighting skill. RF 1.

   Range is as follows: Point Blank N/A; Short--10 feet; Middle--25 feet; Long--50 feet; Extreme--70 feet.

   5.==Weapon: .45 Colt Revolver with six bullets. It does Dangerous damage. Point Blank is 5 ft.; Short is 10 ft.; Middle is 20 ft.; Long is 40 ft.; Extreme is 60 ft. RF 3.

   6.==Weapon: .30-30 Lever Action Rifle can hold up to seven bullets before requiring reloading. Point Blank is N/A; Short is 25 ft; Middle is 50 ft.; Long is 100 ft.; Extreme is 200 ft. Damage is Lethal. RF 2.

   7.==Weapon: Double Barrel Shotgun loaded with Buckshot can fire once per two seconds maximum speed with two shots available before needing reloading. Point Blank is 5 ft.; Short is 10 ft.; Medium is 15 ft.; Long is 20 ft.; Extreme is 30 ft.. It gets a +15 sit-mod to hit due to the wideness of its spread pattern. Damage is Fatal, but any armor reduces that to Damaging. RF 1.

   8.==Weapon: 9 MM Pistol: This gun has thirteen bullets in a clip. It does Dangerous -10 Die Roll (it is a lighter, and faster weapon than a .45). Lightly armored targets are considered to have 10% less armor than otherwise as this weapon is good at punching through light armor. Range: 5"/10"/20"/40"/75". RF 3.

   9.==Weapon: AK-47: This is an automatic weapon with single-shot, three-round burst, and full automatic selections. It carries a banana clip with a thirty round magazine. If it is fired one-handed, it has a -25 Sit-mod.

   Damage is Lethal (A rifle is inherently more dangerous than a pistol, but this is a light round.). A three-round burst is Fatal with a -10 Sit-mod (Its hard to aim). A full automatic 'spray and pray' is Fatal with a Fatal intrinsic damage rider with a -35 sit-mod. This can be used as an area effect attack at -20 for Dangerous damage.Range: N/A; 8"/15"/40"/90". RF 2 at single or three round, and RF 30 at full auto.

   10.==Weapon: Pump Shotgun: Damage is Lethal at Point Blank range. It is Dangerous after that. Range: 5"/10'/20"/30"/40". RF 2. NOTE:Drive by shootings use the speed of the vehicle driving as if the target was moving, and are thus much harder to hit. Of course, the rider is harder to hit as well by any counter-fire. Also, any failure in a Drive check by the Driver penalizes the Riding Shooter. It may or may not (GM's discretion: Penalize the Counterfire.) The shotgun carries seven shells in its under the barrel 'clip'.

   11.==Weapon: .32 caliber revolver carries six shots that do Damaging damage. It is a lighter, smaller pistol. -15 Sit-mod. (This weapon is easily concealed, but frequently too small to be adequately controlled. Also the length of the barrel makes accuracy an issue.) For some such weapons a further negative sit-mod should be applied as these weapons are frequently in a modern world in not very good condition. However this is a Dimensional Differerential that the Referee has to decide on for himself.

   Range: 3"/ 7"/ 15"/ 23"/40". RF 2.

   12.==Weapon: .45 automatic pistol or the Model 1911A is an excellent weapon. It carries seven bullets in its clip. It does Damaging damage with a +5 Die Roll (its a big gun, and may be too much for many people) and a +5 Sit-mod (Its a good gun.). Range is 8"/20"/35"/50"/70". RF 2.

   13.==Tommy gun. NOTE: Ya know, the Tommy Gun hidden in the violin case?

   14.==Weapon: Mary Piper Epsilon: Old West version Double-barreled shotgun: Range 5’: 15’: 30’: 40:+5/1‘: Two shots: Fatal Damage if 15’ or less; lethal damage if more: RF 1

   Reloading requires “breaking” the gun apart, and inserting two new shells.

   15.==Weapon: .38 revolver with six rounds of ammunition in the gun. Damaging: Repeat Factor 3: 3'/10'/20'/40'/60'.

   1d10 List of Heavy Combat Weapons
   =================================

   1.==Weapon: MOAB aka Mother of All Bombs is a 12,000 pound packet of high explosives. It does Obliteratory damage in the central area of a hundred yard circle. For the first twenty-five yards past that, drop the damage to Annihilatory, and at the next twenty-five yards down to Fatal, and so on down to Annoying which is from 226-250 yards from the center point of the explosion.

   2.==Weapon: JDAM aka Joint Direct Ammunition is a bolt-on to 'dumb' bombs. It allows much greater accuracy when target information can be relayed to it. This is one reason that DM has not tried to knock down the satellites in orbit because GPS is needed for this system. This is a Tech 11@0 Computer Control System skill which offers a +25 sit-mod to hit.

   3.==Weapon: FAE Bomb or Fuel-Air Explosive spreads a gasoline mist, and then ignites it. It does Annihilatory damage in the first forty yards, and then drops one damage level every ten yards further out in a circle from the center point.

   4.==Mortar
   5.==Anti-personell Mine

   6.==Weapon: Gatling gun: This weapon is terrifically damaging as it fires a hail of bullets (it is the precursor to the Heavy Machine Gun), and does Annihilating damage to its target if held on that target for any length of time. Every hundred bullets requires a stoppage, and a lever to be pulled, and a metal plate with holes in it for storing bullets to be removed since all the bullets are spent. Then another plate is put in, and the whole process is reversed. Then the winding lever is started up again, and the Gatling gun starts spitting out fire.

   The gun is heavy enough to require two strong men to move it. It usually has a tripod upon which it can be freely rotated.

   The bullets it fires have not the penetrating power to hurt serious armor, but against an unarmored human it does very well. 25’: 50’: 75’: 100’: +2/1’.

   7.==Anti-tank/Anti-Hardened Position Team launched Missile
   8.==Tank Cannon
   9.==Artillery 105 MM Howitzer
   10.==.50 Calibre Machine-gun

   11.==Weapon: Dynamite stick: This has a hissing fuse that can be set anywhere from a minute to a second before detonation. The damage is Fatal, and affecting all like so if they are within ten feet. Within twenty feet, and it is Lethal, and within thirty feet and it is Damaging. Beyond that it is Annoying out to fifty feet.

   It can be wrapped in steel chain as a primitive shrapnel producing method which This 'wrapped stick' is 8'/15'/20'/30' for the above blast damage, but to the first three it has an attached Fatal Damage Rider.

   The Dangerous category is deliberately skipped for the circles of damage.

   RE: Wrapping the dynamite in a chain. A chain is not the only thing you could wrap that with. Wrapping it with heavy wire would have a similar effect. Wrapping it with tape and nails would do that, too. Taping rocks, nails, drill bits, anything really, would have a similar effect.

   Modern Crusader Martial Weapons
   1. Dealt with below....
   2. Arming Sword (as per 1d10 list of swords.)
   3. MC Martial Arts

   1d10 List of Armors
   ===================

   1. Bucket Shield with Kevlar Lining (from Praise and Worship Swordsmen in Music Wars World).

   2. Long Duster Coat: This flowing coat helps hide the users body outline so that he can shift his body a bit and “hide” in the open, and thus it denies precise targeting information to his assailant.

   Use of this is a skill. B7@4 Improved Defense, require a skill roll to activate it for the combat, and cap the sit-mid at -5 (or, possibly, -5 x skill level, if the referee is feeling generous or if it is important that expert NPC gunslingers derive great benefit from their costumes).

   It also causes a -1 DC to hand-to-hand weapons.

   Contributions William T. Wodium, John "A1Nut" Cross. Created by Eric R. Ashley.

   Tue Nov 6 2007 7:00 pm #
2. 

   Tadeusz
   Member

   I think I wrote up the Tommy Gun and the .45 automatic pistol in another location on the GO website. Any spelunkers want to find this? It was recent.

   Eric

   Tue Nov 6 2007 10:48 pm #
3. 

   JohnA1nut
   Member

   I skimmed through that, and it looks OK I suppose. I just wanted to add that a Colt 1911 45 automatic holds SEVEN, not nine bullets.

   Tue Nov 6 2007 11:45 pm #
4. 

   JohnA1nut
   Member

   Also, I believe most 30-30 rifles hold more than 4 bullets. I want to say seven, but I could not be certain, as I have never owned one.

   Tue Nov 6 2007 11:55 pm #
5. 

   WilliamTWodium
   Member

   11.==Weapon: Dynamite stick: This has a hissing fuse that can be set anywhere from a minute to a second before detonation. The damage is Fatal, and affecting all like so if they are within ten feet. Within twenty feet, and it is Lethal, and within thirty feet and it is Damaging. Beyond that it is Annoying out to fifty feet.

   You skipped Dangerous. I'm not sure if that's an oversight or an intentional aspect of the design, so I'm just pointing that out in case it's the former.

   It can be wrapped in steel chain as a primitive shrapnel producing method which increases every damage category while halving the distance(Thus this 'wrapped stick' is Annihilatory within five feet, and Fatal within ten feet, and Lethal within twenty feet.

   NOTE: I AM UNCERTAIN IF THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO HANDLE THIS. AS JOHN SAID, I WANT A DAMAGE BOOST, BUT A SHORTER RANGE.

   Hm. One problem with giving +DC but halving the blast radius is that a bonus DC usually doubles damage (roughly), so for everywhere but the innermost area (5') and the outermost, the effect is the same - halved blast radius means a lower base damage category, bonused damage corrects that.

   Perhaps instead you could treat the steel shrapnel as a damage rider. Reduce the blast radius from 10/20/30/50 to 8/15/20/30, but add on a Lethal rider to the first three spots. That is, instead of doing Fatal to ten feet, Lethal to twenty feet, and Damaging (or Dangerous?) to thirty, it would do Fatal+Lethal to eight feet, Lethal+Dangerous to fifteen feet, and Damaging (or Dangerous?) +Damaging to twenty feet. Damage is annoying from thirty to fifty feet without the chain or from twenty to thirty with it (the shrapnel doesn't reach that far, so there's no rider).

   To be clear, the chain is generally a solid improvement within fifteen feet, almost breaks even between fifteen and twenty, and reduces effectiveness significantly beyond twenty feet. (There's a slight dip in relative effectiveness between eight and ten feet, but if that bothers you you can always expand the initial area to ten feet and leave the others the same.)

   _

   It would be nice to have one-letter abbreviations for damage categories. Maybe O for Obliterative, H for Annihilative, F for Fatal, L for Lethal, N for Dangerous, M for Damaging, and Y for Annoying? With that, I could say something like,

   10'F/20'L/30'N/50'Y without chain; with chain, 8'F+L/15'L+N/20'N+M/30'Y (steel shrapnel adds L/N/M rider reducing area to 8/15/20/30)

   Wed Nov 7 2007 1:43 am #
6. 

   WilliamTWodium
   Member

   Also, I think that while duster coat can work fine as written, it could also function as portable Concealment in much the same way that armor works as portable Cover. I'd have to skim that section again to tell you how that would work, but it's worth a thought.

   Wed Nov 7 2007 1:46 am #
7. 

   JohnA1nut
   Member

   RE: Wrapping the dynamite in a chain. A chain is not the only thing you could wrap that with. Wrapping it with heavy wire would have a similar effect. Wrapping it with tape and nails would do that, too. Taping rocks, nails, drill bits, anything really, would have a similar effect.

   Wed Nov 7 2007 2:28 am #
8. 

   Tadeusz
   Member

   I've redone it according to ya'lls critiques.

   I'll wait on the portable concealment issue.

   Originally, the dynamite stick was not meant to be glitched with odd damage category skips, but its an interesting effect so I'll leave it.

   Eric

   Wed Nov 7 2007 6:23 pm #
9. 

   WilliamTWodium
   Member

   Reading the bit on concealment, I've discovered it won't work for this. Either the attacker can see enough of the opponent to extrapolate where the rest of him is, or he's completely guessing where to attack; in the former case, there is no concealment (but there might be cover), and in the latter case, the size of the opponent is divided by the size of the area the attacker is shooting at to determine the percent chance that the attack happens to be aimed at the opponent. Let's look at this again:

   2. Long Duster Coat: This flowing coat helps hide the users body outline so that he can shift his body a bit and “hide” in the open, and it denies precise targeting information to his assailant . . .

   This sounds like a skill to me. There's more to this than putting on a duster coat; the benefit sounds like it comes from knowing how to use the duster coat to your advantage. If it were my game, I'd call this a B7@4 Improved Defense, require a skill roll to activate it for the combat, and cap the sit-mid at -5 (or, possibly, -5 x skill level, if I was feeling generous or if it was important to me that expert NPC gunslingers derive great benefit from their costumes).

   Fri Nov 9 2007 2:20 am #
10. 

    Tadeusz
    Member

    MJ, can we have a simple negative sit-mod for partial concealment? The methods Wodium is describing sound....complicated.

    I've inserted the description that Wodium wrote. Thanks.

    Eric

    Fri Nov 9 2007 3:49 am #
11. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    I agree with Scott that it needs to be a skill, the way it's described, although I would accept that it is a magic or technological skill (depending on how the coat works). If it's a mag skill, it's an active when worn/held device, the user rolls (technically when he dons it but practically when it matters, unless you're in a world with a low bias that suggests a high chance to botch), and it creates a penalize hit skill situation if it works. The way it does that is effectively color; the skill is M1@3(?) because if the use of the device (the coat) is successful, it creates a sit-mod against incoming attacks.

    You can't make something like that without having a skill to use it. Technically, even armor requires a skill check for whether it is working when you don it (usually ignored in play, because the bonuses to success are fairly high and it works in rather low tech worlds easily).

    If it's just the use of an ordinary coat, then it is a bod skill, probably as Scott says a B7@4 improved defense, the roll activating the effect. This is particularly important here, because it's not the coat but the way the coat is used that matters (if you put the coat on a monkey it would have no effect), so the roll creates a sit-mod. You could decide whether it's a flat sit-mod or an RS=SM situation (like evasive tumbling) or some other arrangement. It could be RS=DC, that it reduces damage because the hit won't be as good.

    --M. J. Young

    Sat Nov 10 2007 2:44 am #
12. 

    Tadeusz
    Member

    Its an ordinary long coat, and yes putting it on a monkey would do nothing. I could sorta see it being a tech skill, but mostly its a bod skill. Magic skill--unless Acting or Bluffing is the mag skill, then no. Its not a magic coat at all.

    The coat does have two effects.

    1. It denies info to ranged weapons attacks. Scott's bod skill works here, although I think MJ said that a simple negative mod on that bod skill would be acceptable.
    2. The coat is tough enough to provide protection from hand-to-hand attacks of Annoying level. And it covers about 80% of the body....

    Modern Crusader Kevlar Lined Bucket Shield
    ==========================================

    The shield is made of steel, typically the front hood of a car which is removed, and cut into shape, and then pounded. Older cars are used here as fiberglass shields are not able to be pounded.

    Then a layer of kevlar is superglued to the interior side of the shield. Two straps are bolted into place on the rear side.

    A religious symbol is painted on the front side. Typically, the shields start as a Templar design of a red cross on a white background. Later, the fighter is allowed to individualize.

    The rectangular shield is four feet tall, and two and a half feet wide. The corners may be curved slightly, or left square. One innovation is to curve the inner top corner near the fighter's face, and leave the other three corners sharp. Typically, a rounded 'boss' is placed on shields by the more experienced fighters to enable them to take less damage to their wrist, and to make shield bashes more effective ( +2 sit-mod to shield maneuvers, and +2 defensive modifier for the shield boss).

    The sharp coners of the shields are more intimidating than actually effective although some Swordsmen are experimenting with techniques. Thus a specific Swordsman may know a trick or two that his comrades haven't picked up yet.

    Bucket Shield is 44% cover with a density of 2@4 for the Kevlar and 3@6 for the steel. These numbers are merged together to average out a hardness.

    (and the Open-faced Helmet of similar construction is 6%) which is 50 X 20=1000.

    NOTE ONE: 1000 what? I guess this is a -100 Sit-mod on attacking.

    NOTE TWO: I merged the steel+Kevlar together and gave it a combined rating rather than get into armor layers. Is this acceptable?

    Sat Nov 10 2007 4:46 pm #
13. 

    WilliamTWodium
    Member

    Note one: It's 0.50 x 20, for a -10 SM. (Someone covered head-to-toe in armor would in theory get 1 x [decimalized density] as a sitmod; he's not impossible to damage, just well-protected. I say "in theory" because joints and eye slits are good ideas and often result in less than 100% coverage.)

    Note two: It's almost always acceptable to simplify the mechanics if that's what you want to do.

    In this case, though, since all of the armor is constructed from the same two layers and there aren't any pieces missing a layer, you can just add the kevlar's density to the steel's density, pretend it's one really hard material, and get the exact same result as if you calculated the layers separately. Lemme get my book.

    Page 55, "Densities of Specified Materials" - kevlar's a polymer, right? Polymers range from 1@10 to 2@10, hard metals from 2@6 to 4@8. If we peg kevlar at 2@5 and steel at 3@5 (I'm just picking middle-ish numbers), that's -13 for the kevlar (25 x .50 = 12.5, round up) and -18 for the steel (35 x 50 = 17.5, round up), for -31 total.

    Okay, so I lied; if you do them separately, you wind up with -31 instead of -30 because you round up twice (once for each layer) instead of just once. If you make them 2@4 and 3@6, there's no rounding and it's -30 either way.

    24 + 36 = 60 | 60 x .50 = 30 | -30 SM
    24 x .50 = 12 | 36 x .50 = 18 | 12 + 18 = 30 | -30 SM

    Incidentally, that's a rather large and heavy shield. I imagine they get used to it, though.

    __

    If you give the duster coat a density of 1@1 (the same as leather) and say it covers 75% of the body, it gives a -8 cover value. I would personally prefer another option, because I don't normally give credit for people's ordinary clothes, but it is an option.

    Sun Nov 11 2007 7:00 am #
14. 

    Tadeusz
    Member

    I'm going to have to study your first point.

    Its true that there were weapons specifically designed to deal with full armored knights. Forks to pin the knight to the ground, and really heavy weapons to cleave the armor.

    So, something like a pitchfork from one person, and the other guy pulls way back with his pickaxe like weapon....

    I'd say extra damage for full effort, and extra time against an unmoving target, and a huge weapon to begin with that is probably Dangerous at least.

    =========
    I need to see if MJ will allow simplified on his website. It will be some time before I feel comfortable enough to use this stuff in my game instead of using Educated Guesswork with a Bit of Dice.

    ==========
    Rounding up from both is a trick that should be avoided.
    =============

    That is a very heavy shield indeed. I think only Tower shields might be larger than a full Bucket shield.

    Question: Are there Dex penalties in MV like the Dex penalties in D20 for armor?

    =================
    Well, this is clothes that is worn for protective effect. I think if I was wearing my big black felt trench coat which is nearly an inch thick, I should get some protection value for it.

    Sun Nov 11 2007 3:58 pm #
15. 

    Tadeusz
    Member

    The Ladyfaire thinks its not an inch, and thinks its not felt, but maybe down-filled. Anyways, its thick, and heavy.

    Sun Nov 11 2007 4:00 pm #
16. 

    WilliamTWodium
    Member

    Agreed on the coat. There's actually a provision for extra-thick layers in the rules somewhere; I think a standard layer is assumed to be an eighth inch to a quarter inch, and each additional quarter inch increases the sit-mod by a quarter. The book example is a leather vest (density 1@2, 24% coverage). We assume it's about a quarter-inch thick, for a (12 x .24 = 2.88) -3 cover value. If, however, we specify an inch-thick leather vest, that's an extra three quarter inches, for an extra 75% of the cover value; 2.88 x 1.75 = 5.04, a -5 cover value.

    Question: Are there Dex penalties in MV like the Dex penalties in D20 for armor?

    I have two answers to this.

    The first one is, "no, but I make them up anyway." That is, I'll often sit-mod on the fly for circumstances, and you're perfectly justified in saying "alright, roll your Tightropes skill, but I'm docking you -30 for the giant shield." Or -15 or whatever you think is appropriate. You might say that Evasive Tumbling is outright impossible, or allow it with a stiff penalty if he succeeds at a difficult Strength check. I've noticed that in Multiverser, penalties and drawbacks seem to fall into the realm of referee discretion much more often than abilities and advantages. To some extent that may be true in all games.

    The second answer is, check the Encumbrance table at the end of the Equipment chapter (page 405, text explanations 403-404). This is especially useful if the character has a level two or three Strength, because the encumbrance categories get more discriminating above level one. The penalties described apply to "complex bod skills" - it's your call which ones count as complex - and little is said about agility, but you're free to ad hoc comparable penalties to other things.

    What that means is that I don't think you can attach a specific penalty to an item. Rather, you can attach a weight to an item, and the rest will depend on referee discretion and the strength of the character using the item. A note reminding the ref to consider penalizing complex bod skills couldn't hurt, either.

    Sun Nov 11 2007 6:25 pm #
17. 

    WilliamTWodium
    Member

    Also, a knight in full plate gets 95% coverage from (I'm guessing) 3@5 density steel, which works out to -33; of course, he's also got thick cloth padding in there, so in the interest of layers and ad-hoc time-saving I'll boost that to a -40 sit-mod for cover. An amateur swordsman with an average strike value and BRA in a 5@ tech world has a 65% chance to hit before defenses; the armor knocks that down to 25% minus the knight's target value. If it's the knight from Dancing Princess, our amateur swordsman now has a whopping 4% chance to deal damage. One attack out of twenty-five will deal a single intensity - but since the knight has a level two damage value, that intensity is rounded out of existence and written off as meaningless bruising.

    Of course, a professional's chance will be higher (as will his damage category), so the knight is not invulnerable to trained soldiers. He's just really close.
    _

    Oh, and you really should emphasize that the -30 sit-mod from your giant-shield/bucket combo only applies when the shield can be interposed between the user and the opponent; otherwise, you just have the bucket, which is worth about -4 on it's own.

    Sun Nov 11 2007 6:42 pm #
18. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    BTT

    Sun Nov 18 2007 3:10 am #
19. 

    Tadeusz
    Member

    Bumping up for Daywalkers.

    There is also a 'type of bullets' list if John is interested in that.

    This list should give him a good place to start. Maybe add a few weapons on to this like the .22, and neaten up the list, and edit where needed, and you're good to go.

    Sat Feb 27 2010 11:42 pm #

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