There's a HUGE difference between using hearing, smell, touch and taste to compensate for not being able to see, as opposed to being able to see in the dark. You can't tell me there isn't.
Behind the Screens 2009
(651 posts) (10 voices)-
JohnA1nut
MemberTwo Posts, more than 24 hours after last.
I know you get ritual bonuses for magic, do you get ritual bonuses for psionics? I just know that my character points his finger at whatever he's TK pulsing, whenever possible. Are there any bonuses for that kind of thing?
(Doing Therapy)
Sun Aug 30 2009 5:37 am # -
O.K., miscellany first.
Can I not?There's a HUGE difference between using hearing, smell, touch and taste to compensate for not being able to see, as opposed to being able to see in the dark. You can't tell me there isn't.
How is what you do different from what Daredevil does, but that he is so much better at it?
How is that different from "seeing in the dark"?
Indeed I would bonus a skill that was dependent on a physical action, and would probably give +10 for the Uncle Martin use of a pointing finger for telekinetic skills--but I know that your character has never done this.I know you get ritual bonuses for magic, do you get ritual bonuses for psionics? I just know that my character points his finger at whatever he's TK pulsing, whenever possible. Are there any bonuses for that kind of thing?
I know it because you never said that he did, and because you acted as if no one would have been able to identify you as the cause of all those flipped skirts and similar telekinetic gags. See, from a rules perspective, the reasons something like that would give you a bonus are
- it means you cannot use the skill if the hand you need to use for it is needed for something else, and
- anyone who looks at you can see that you are the cause of the movement as your finger leads the action, and so can respond by attacking you.
If the skill is not dependent on the motion, then the motion adds nothing, because it is not part of the skill.
--M. J. Young
Tue Sep 1 2009 2:07 am # -
Now, let's see if I can address game posts from Maxx, Harry, and John 2 in the limited time remaining to me.
We'll answer Maxx' questions and advance him to four months old.
Harry is at his meeting.
And the inevitable fight between John 2 and Lauren has come. It will be interesting to see whether he can resolve it or leave her estranged from henceforth.
--M. J. Young
Tue Sep 1 2009 2:57 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberHow is what you do different from what Daredevil does, but that he is so much better at it?
Because if you're quiet, Daredevil can't see you at all. MJ, I know you know what I'm talking about. There is no way on God's green earth that you can tell me that being able to see is not an advantage over being able to hear location.
Tue Sep 1 2009 3:09 am # -
johnosevens
MemberActually, Daredevil can hear you even if you're perfectly quiet, by hearing sound bouncing off of you, unless you are sound-deadening yourself. You can tell that in the fact that he can see terrain features, things like subway pillars and such. /Perfect/ echolocation like that isn't much of a step down, except that you can't read in echolocation.
Being able to see is also being dependent upon light. Think of how much energy we use generating light. You're using a computer. It generates a LOT of light - a lot more than is going into your eyes. Bats don't need a light source to navigate by - their own voices are all they need to see everything they need to see. It's all a matter of perspective.
Tue Sep 1 2009 3:48 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberAnd about pointing my finger whilst TK pulsing things, you said that since I've never stated it, I've never done it. I don't think I've ever stated that I was going to the bathroom either, so does that mean versers lose the need to poop? Pointing my finger whilst TK pulsing is just something that I know he does. It's a natural thing to do I would imagine.
Tue Sep 1 2009 7:03 am # -
There is no way on God's green earth that you can tell me that being able to see is not an advantage over being able to hear location.
Of course sight has some advantages over hearing location; it carries color information, for example. What you're not considering is that hearing has a massive advantage over sight, if you're able to do it well enough to locate people and objects: namely, it's omnidirectional. You can only see what's in front of you, but you can hear something from anywhere in the room no matter which way you're facing. In combat, that's huge.
Tue Sep 1 2009 8:44 am # -
I have passed the big question, about Lauren's ability to see in the dark, to a new thread, The Lauren Should Have Been Blind Fight, and will ask that future comments be posted there.
To the smaller question, I have some simple and brief responses.
Going to the bathroom is assumed, because everyone does it. If your character had somehow gotten sick, it might have arisen in play that you were running to find a bathroom, but generally it is assumed that you do it when you need, and we don't bother with it otherwise.
Pointing with your finger when you use telekinesis would have had two very specific effects within the context of the game:
- You would have received a bonus for involving the physical act as a necessary part of the telekinetic skill, and
- There would have been intuition checks for observers to notice that you were doing this and connect the consequence with the action, resulting in interactions with those observers.
If you would like to develop separate telekinetic skills which are reliant on pointing with your finger, you are free to do so.
That settled, I see posts from Brock, Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, and John 2, coming in force on a day that is otherwise light, so I should be able to give each of them sufficient attention.
I'm not sure whether Brock will become involved in discussion with Scott and Iggy, but since Iggy is a non-player character I feel it reasonable to suggest their current conversation topic.
I'm undecided concerning what Maxx should have to roll to explore the mind of the tree. On the one hand, he has relegated such explorations to "practice" and thus suggested that he will make random contact attempts and use those when he succeeds; on the other hand, he expects to get genuine information from this specific application. I am increasing his Read Minds skill to 1@5 because he has been practicing on non-human targets--he should not get new use for this, because he did not roll for them, but he has been alive long enough to improve his SAL in this again. Let's crunch numbers. Maxx has a 1@6 SAL and 1@9 BRA in a world whose psi bias is higher than his own 3@4, 41% chance of success; but his target is at best an animal mind, -20, and possibly an alien mind, -30, which means he has at best a 21% chance of success, possibly an 11% chance. This means he needs a very good GE roll to get much information, and a 9, As Good As Expected, is not quite high enough to tell much.
I have the same problem with the question about saliva and hair patterns, so I'll need a GE roll for that, too--although it is more likely that he succeeded in these things. An 18 GE roll is less promising, but he did not need to do so well. Otherwise, we'll wait for the next post to move him forward another month.
I've come up with a plan that might accomplish Harry's objective, but we'll have to put it forward for discussion.
I need to bring my mind back into the thread with Nikolaj, but it's a good story at a good turning point, so we should be able to pick it up well.
I can see why John 2 is single.
--M. J. Young
Tue Sep 1 2009 9:39 pm # -
Nikolaj--indeed, the details in The Zygote Experience in The First Book of Worlds were carefully researched in several obstetrical and child development books, and I'm following the human track quite closely for the sprite, except of course that he has a few abilities humans do not have.
John--yes, but Han Solo wound up marrying the princess, I believe.
Now let's see what we can do for Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, and John 2.
We'll move Maxx to five months old.
Harry is nearing the end of the meeting, I think, if they can agree on a plan.
Nikolaj reminds me that he sometimes has dreams or visions associated with his prayers, and indeed I have his 1@2 Dreams and Visions M7@6 usually as guidance or answers to prayers skill with his 1@10 religion, 1@8 BRA, +10 for alliance, and 2x7@ bias, all of which gives him a 64% chance of such a vision. A botch in this case would most likely be something which would be badly misunderstood, but let's roll--botches are unlikely. 90 is the roll, so there is no vision this time, but no botch either.
John 2 and I will need to get our understanding of the shared imagined space synched in regard to this skill Lauren was teaching before we continue.
--M. J. Young
Thu Sep 3 2009 2:35 am # -
Nikolaj--indeed, the details in The Zygote Experience in The First Book of Worlds were carefully researched in several obstetrical and child development books, and I'm following the human track quite closely for the sprite, except of course that he has a few abilities humans do not have.
Also worth noting is that now that the child is learning all those things it will be tired a lot. Children that age discover things they can do and keep practicing it until they are too tired. They work very hard, which results in tiredness and thus also crying. Also in the times that, still like now, they cannot communicate verbally yet, the only way to communicate is by crying. It's the only way it knows to get attention, so it will be used until another option becomes possible (which in this adventure seems to be telepathy)
cool!
Thu Sep 3 2009 8:59 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberChildren might not be able to speak, but they can understand when you speak. At least a lot of the time. You may recall me mentioning Plunger, my 2 year old neighbor. She understood when I asked "Where's your mommy and daddy at?" And answered me by pointing at their apartment. She couldn't speak, but she could understand and answer me in other ways.
A friend of mine has a 7 month old daughter. She responded when I said "Dora the Explorer." My friend said it was one of her favorite shows. Even 7 months old, she could understand what I said.
Thu Sep 3 2009 10:29 am # -
yes, very true. By then they have already figured out other ways to communicate. I wasn't very clear as I was aiming at real babies, not toddlers (is that the english word?) They might also react by smiling or laughing. Yet when they want something, the only way babies can let people know is by crying. If there needs to be more discussion of this, I think we should make a topic for it.
But I only wanted to point out that there would be alot of crying to get attention. Yet the baby in this case already seems to have telepathy or mind reading or something to communicate on a more effective level. I also wanted to point out that he should feel tired often. More info is available on many sites here on the web.
Thu Sep 3 2009 1:05 pm # -
Indeed, Maxx and I have been glossing over the fact that he becomes tired and sleeps so much. It works that way because he's not playing through the hours but more through the days, saying what he wants to do when he is awake and has free time. I have reminded him a few times that he tires quickly and sleeps quite a bit, but the fact that he is staying awake longer makes it harder to catch the contrast--he is able to push himself more now than he was three months ago, but still nowhere near his adult ability.
And speaking of Maxx, he starts today's game, followed by Harry, Nikolaj, John 2, and Adam--and it is good to see Adam back, as I had been missing him.
Maxx has decided to create a phantom limb sensation for his experiments in reading peripheral nerve system information. On careful consideration, I have decided that this is a P3@8 Clairtacticity variant with a mind reading component. The mind reading component is most easily included by making it a P3@9 Remote Mind Reading skill, a sort-of catch-all skill label for mind reading skills that don't fit the normal definitions which happens to fall into a clairsentient category, so I'm comfortable with that. (The alternative was to give it a -10 penalty for inclusion of a second skill, but this seems to be a unified single skill and should not suffer that penalty.) Maxx has a 3@4 bias and 1@9 BRA, and I think the world area bias is 15@, so that gives him 68-39-29% chance of landing this skill, which would be a good skill for him to grab, particularly as it would enable him to get examples of bod skills by direct observation of how the nerves function. 03 means it worked--1@1 Read Neural Motor Pattern P3@9 gives perception of the neural process of a targeted physical action in a phantom limb, usable as an example for skill learning purposes. He rolls 76 on attempting to do the same with Lelach as his target, but that's not a big deal--it's just going to take a while to get it.
Of course, babies take so much time; but I think I've dealt with Maxx for the moment, and can move to Harry, who has agreed with the current form of the plan. I expect he'd like to get through the judicial phase swiftly, although if he's interested in pursuing that we can slow it down.
We'll bring Nikolaj to town, and see what he does there.
John 2 gets a GE of 17 on arranging his accidental meeting with Lauren. That means she will be busy, but it won't be too awkward.
We are on a create-your-own-adventure game with Adam, as he is exploring a castle I have not drawn--but I have tools for that. The first is the GE roll, and although the roll 6-6-6 might seem to some rather ominous in the exploration of a castle inhabited by some undead creature, it adds up to 18 and on the 3d10 scale that's only a little bad.
I think maybe I should start mapping this. I wonder if I still have graph paper on the hard drive somewhere....
--M. J. Young
Fri Sep 4 2009 2:17 am # -
I mentioned somewhere--oh, never mind, it was in an e-mail. Anyway, I'm rather tired tonight, but it's not too late so perhaps I can get through the forum. I have game posts from Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, John2, and Adam.
Maxx wants to teach himself telepathy to animals, which means he needs an animal. He would like something sprite-like, but then, all animals are more like each other than any are like sprites, in terms of mental process. A 16 GE roll is smack in the middle, so we're going to go for a butterfly. The learning roll is 58, so I need to crunch numbers--his BRA is 1@9, bias has risen to 3@9, and there's a 15@ psi bias in this world, so I see 73 minus the target skill, 1@6 telepathy to animals, he misses it by one point.
I am bringing him to six months and kicking up some of the things he has been practicing. This includes a +1 bonus to his intellect for his mental training there, to 1@9, persuasion to 1@8, intuition to 1@10. Along with physical improvements, his numbers are now:
- 1@8 Persuasion
Charisma
Animal Magnetism
0@8+2 Strength (0@10)
1@3+2 Stamina (1@5)
1@4+1 Resistance (1@5)
1@1 Density
1@10+2 Flexibility (1@2)
0@10+2 Agility (1@2)
0@10+2 Hand/Eye (1@2)
1@9 Intellect
1@10 Intuition
Education Level
1@8 Will PowerSkills includes:
- Familiarity: Theian Orlina Lelach +10; Theian Alanda Morani
1@3 Meditation P1@0 one minute of mind relaxation gives +RS/10 to immediately subsequent psionic skill attempt, touching hand to head for focus gives +5SM
1@3 Self-Hypnosis P1@0 causes character to feel positive
1@6 Read Minds P1@1 used also to obtain mental frequency and explore mental structures
1@4 Enhanced Recollection P1@1 (read minds on self)
1@5 Telepathy to Humans P1@3
1@10 Focus Senses P3@0 sensitivity variant enables sorting specific auditory or other sensory information from background
1@1 Locate Telepathically Known Person P3@1 detects the direction of a specified mind provided that mind is known telepathically to the user, +10SM
1@2 Detect Materials P3@4 (known patterns: seed mush)
1@1 Read Neural Motor Pattern P3@9 gives perception of the neural process of a targeted physical action in a phantom limb, usable as an example for skill learning purposes
1@6 Prayer for Guidance M7@7 not detailed, requires speech
Harry is headed back to the regular routine; we'll probably have time pick up again, finally.
Nikolaj gets a 9 GE roll on leather pigments, which strikes me as particularly good here, and I've already set up something that will help with that.
John 2 pulls a 5 GE roll when he needs one.
Adam rolls 50 on the use of the vibroblade, a T9@0 activation skill with a 3@1 SAL and +15SM, so I'm sure it has activated. This, though, is a very unusual use of his sword. I, too, am thinking wooden beam across the door, and so I'm going to umbrella this without penalty under his 1@10 Felling Trees skill, but he rolls 80, and the tech bias of this world is 5@, so I'm looking at 1@10+10+BRA, 2@10 for tech, which means we're looking at 60% chance of success at this. That means he's going for the martial arts skill, which I presume is his 3@10 Power Punch, B7@3 intensified damage dangerous, lethal against objects, only attack in minute against objects, limit of two attacks in the minute against creatures, standard attack success required if used against creatures or armor, attack on weapon if used against weapon, automatic breakage on failed d100 relative success density check. He gets +DC+10 for the SAL, and he's going into style to use it, rolling 58 which I know is success for his Chow En Lai, which gives him +DC for style, +DC for his 2@9 MSV, and we need the TV and DV for a solid door of this sort, the density of the wood is 1@5, it has no agility and no intuition, so its TV is 0@5; there might be a bonus for size, but since we're looking at a critical spot to break the beam it might be a penalty, so I will call it a wash. Its damage value is 1@5 per 36 cubic inches, and the attack is designed to break things, so it must be very focused, and if he succeeds in doing 15 intensities it will break. The attack roll is 87, so I've got to check numbers: 2@9 MSV+3@1 BRA (bod)+20 att SM (style)+3@10 SAL with only a 0@5 TV means we're guaranteed success here.
He gets another 18 GE, so things are still not good but not yet bad.
--M. J. Young
Sat Sep 5 2009 1:33 am # -
I've rummaged through some interesting posts on other threads, but it is time to turn to the game. Maxx, Nikolaj, and John 2 are in play.
Maxx raises the point that he need not have a creature in sight to attempt telepathic contact if he already knows its mind from tagging; I admit that I was stretching the skill learning attempt in large part because I did not want to burn up a lot of rolls looking for the success and potentially hitting the botch. We'll roll again for contacting a creature telepathically: 71 is a failure on the meditation skill, but 29 works.
He attempts to read his own mind, specifically his visual center, and expects to have a secondary visual center. The roll is 68, but since he gets +20 for attempting to contact his own mind we're going to have to crunch numbers. 2x3@ bias, 1@10 BRA, 1@6 SAL makes 62, failed, so we've established that his mind reading skill does not include sensory information and he needs to attempt to teach himself a different skill which does. For this he rolls 46, which is certainly successful given his bonus of +20 for reading his own mind. That's 1@1 Read Sensory Information Center P1@1 (Visual); whether it will work for other senses we'll have to see.
Nikolaj is moving into new territory as he starts to talk about God to Qormlach's new owner. The man's reaction will be tempered by the GE roll, 16 is neutral. He gets a 10 GE on finding the carving kit. We also have him trading clothes for new clothes on that roll.
John 2 gets a 10 GE on the delivery of the cinnamon rolls. That works.
--M. J. Young
Sun Sep 6 2009 10:30 pm # -
I'm looking at the longest list of players I've seen in quite a while--Brock and Scott, Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, John 2, and Graeme--and it seems I'm near the end of a longish day that has left me little time. Let me see what I can cover, though.
I'm actually addressing Scott in my response to Brock, but that's because it occurs to me that Scott's an experienced verser, and Brock might learn something from observing what Scott thinks is important to practice.
Now I have to get into the mind of a butterfly for Maxx. (What can the fish tell us? The water is wet?)
I keep trying to think of how the second visual image might be used to enhance the first, but nothing makes sense. The second image won't be sharper than the first; if anything, it would be slightly degraded. The second image might also lag slightly behind the first, so overlapping would create blurring. I can think of ways that the second image could be useful--particularly if you could freeze it. On the other hand, maybe I need to think of this a different way. Maxx isn't really asking whether this will enhance is visual acuity; he's asking whether he can psionically enhance his visual acuity and suggesting an approach to that. Thus it makes more sense for me to think of this as an attempt to learn a P5@1 Heightened Vision skill based on what he already has. Let's go for that, adding his numbers: 15@ world bias, 1@10 BRA, 3@9 bias, sums to 74, minus 51 leaves 23% chance of success, and he rolls 65.
Similarly, I think that his notion of using P1@0 hypnosis as a tool for enhanced rest should be read as trying to learn a P5@0 self control variant, for which his chance of success would be 24% (just did the numbers for a skill one intensity higher), 89 also failing.
I'm not certain whether I should be pushing him forward another month, but I've put a lot of time there already and need to move forward.
Harry says he's looking for suitable tenants, so we'll start that.
Nikolaj rolls 12 on a persuasion check against the leatherman's 34, so someone's prayers are working here. That's a wild turn here.
On a roll of 31, Lauren successfully transmits the pattern for the next skill, but I'll wait for John 2 to say that he wants to learn it before I roll for him.
The advantage of a survival skill is that it covers everything in a single shot; but Graeme rolls 90 on that, so we'll have to cover it individually. The low tech bias here is going to hurt, but his 1@10 (+2) Rope Use skill will enable him to lash a lean-to because it is a T2@1 skill, so it's in the curve. He rolls 48, though, and gets no bias bonus in this flatlined tech world, so it's the 1@10 SAL plus 2@3 BRA, 43% chance of success. He's getting ready to start a fire, but hasn't yet said that he is starting one, so I'll wait for him to address the details on that.
--M. J. Young
Tue Sep 8 2009 5:17 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberTwo Posts, more than 2 days after last.
Is it acceptable for players to make suggestions on where the story should go? Or to tell how they would handle something as a referee? I was thinking since the point is to learn to referee, things like that would be encouraged. Just don't want to break any gamer etiquette.
(Doing Therapy)
Thu Sep 10 2009 2:53 pm # -
John--it is inappropriate for the player to tell the referee what he wants to have happen. It is appropriate for the player to give the referee ideas about what kinds of things he think he would enjoy in a game. Part of that is the degree of specificity. That is, you could say, "I like what's happening in Nikolaj's and Oak's games, where they are becoming something like apostles bringing the gospel to people, and think it would be interesting to be in a world where something like that could happen." It would be inappropriate to say "I want to go to Orc Rising so I can preach the gospel to the orcs." I do want to know what kinds of things you think generally are fun; I don't want you to tell me what I should be doing.
I apologize to all for how long it has been; and indeed, I am hoping at this point that I will be able to get through all the posts tonight, but I must also make dinner, and thanks to the wealth of other threads I had to read plus the volume of e-mail it is considerably later than I hoped it would be. But I see Brock, Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, John 2, Adam, and Graeme waiting, so I'll get started.
I'm trying to remember what Scott practices so I know what Brock gets to observe; a quick check of his character sheet brings some back to mind.
Maxx rolls 48 on his effort to use tactile sense for hearing, a 5@1 altered sense variant. His bias is 3@9, BRA 1@10, and the world bias 15@, 74-51=less than 48, so it's not successful this time.
My recollection of Harry's previous real estate excursion was that he did it all himself; a 21 GE roll suggests that this is how it must be done.
My initial thoughts about the town Nikolaj is visiting is that it has a well, but there's a livestock watering hole maybe half a mile to a mile out of town. A GE or 16 says that's a good guess, so we'll go with that.
I have to roll for John 2's skill learning attempt, but it's a pretty sure thing with the example and teacher and all--80 makes it 1@2 Adapt Against Cold P5@4.
He asks me the rather awkward question of whether he noticed something in the store. That's really two questions, the first a GE roll as to whether it was there and the second an intuition check as to whether he noticed it; but since if he didn't notice it I don't need to roll for whether it was there (and don't need to decide whether it was), I'll do that first: 13 is certainly good for that, so we need the GE roll: 19, not favorable.
Looking back over Adam's thread, I've compiled a record of the castle floorplan to this point, and rolled a 14 GE on the next move.
I'll give Graeme change of circumstances on his lean-to effort, on the assumption that enough time has passed to try again while he's been gathering his fire supplies. This time the roll is 15, well within his ability even in this bias, so he's going to make that work. His remove impurities spell should be fairly easy--he gets +24 for 2x12@ bias, his 2@2 BRA, so the fact that he has only a 1@1 SAL and the skill has a -12 SM still leaves him with 45% chance of success on this, and he rolls 45.
I am adding to his sheet a 2@5 Simple Fire Skills Package T1@X (T1@1 Basic Fire Skills Package (Maintain Solid Fuel Fire, Transfer Fire, Contain Fire, Extinguish Fire), T1@2 Ignite Fire from Spark, T1@2 Operate Lighter, T1@2 Ignite Fire from Friction, T1@2 Operate Match, T1@3 Torch, T1@4 Ignite Fire from Light, T1@6 Ignite Fire from Electrical Current). His Scout training would be sufficient to put him at or near professional level on that package, and his additional navy training in fire safety pushes it up in my mind. He's not yet attempted to light a fire, though, but we'll burn that bridge when we come to it.
I think that's everything for now.
--M. J. Young
Sat Sep 12 2009 5:23 am # -
I believe I see Brock and Scott, Maxx, Harry, and John 2; hopefully my eyes have not missed anyone.
I don't actually have to say anything to Brock, as Scott has covered things nicely; I will post to keep things moving.
I don't have an Ed Lev for Maxx, but the simple check rolled 35 and I'm sure he's not as educated as that (which should not be taken as a slur against his posts--I don't know any living person who has a 3@5 education level, and would class that as impossible for normal humans).
For his first attempt on heightened awareness, he rolls a meditation roll of 80 but a skill learning roll of 19, which I know is good for his scores, 1@1 Heightened Awareness P3@1 may be rolled to negate surprise.
I think I decided that the sleep reduction skill was a P6@1, so I will roll it thus again. 75 fails again==oh, but that's for the meditate. The skill learning roll is 35, which requires me to check numbers. He has a 3@9 bias and 1@10 BRA against a 6@1 skill with +15 for the world bias, 74-61 is 13% chance of success, a failure.
That's good timing on wanting to stand--that's an eighth month task. I could do strength checks on it, but he'll get it eventually, and he is stronger than the average child, so we're getting there. He is still in the seventh month, but he is standing with help.
Harry is thinking pretty well on his promotional plans. Tailors would be more connected to middle class families, and schools to families with children and money to educate them. Higher-end taverns and restaurants would also appeal to the wealthier end. He's included the customs officer because new people will need homes. So let's take that into account and roll a GE roll: 20 is just bad enough.
I'm wondering how things progress, hoping for a comfortably good roll that will let a few weeks burn past and bring us closer to the wedding (being mindful that he has not so much as mentioned to the matchmaker that he is back in town), but what I get is a 26.
I so do not want Lauren to be hanging out with John 2 all day, and she does have a relationship outside his knowledge; but I guess I'll have to be fair and roll a GE roll for him. 18 is rolled, so he'll have to make his own plans.
Hey, I'm done. That's good--I can turn my attention to other projects, for a change. What day is it, anyway?
--M. J. Young
Sun Sep 13 2009 10:18 pm # -
It appears that I have reached the game threads. Let's see what's happening. Scott posted to the thread with Brock and Van-Eric, but since neither of them posted and Scott's post is not for me, I can skip that and start with Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, and John 2.
Maxx' sleep prayer looks like it's pretty solid. Although it is motion only (-10), he's given it a 10:00 TF for a 1:00 baseline, which is +32, and he's not asking for the 2@1 Remove Fatigue to eliminate his need for sleep but only to make it effective, so we'll add +40 (I'd give +10 if he wanted to cut the sleep in half, so that means +20 for three quarters, +30 for seven eighths, and +40 for fifteen sixteenth, by which time we're looking at getting eight hours of sleep in seven and a half an hours, which is as good as sleeping eight, really). He's got +5 appropriate movement that involves the entire body, except that it doesn't really require total freedom of movement--he doesn't have to move other than to cross his arms, so I'll cut that back to +3 for two arms. That makes the inherent sit-mod on this skill +70, pretty sure to succeed if there aren't penalties against it. He rolls 38, learning 1@1 Restful Sleep M+2@1 lay down and cross arms, thinking a prayer for good rest and subsequent alertness 10:00 TF +70SM.
He also wants to attempt a chain telepathy, in which all the creatures in physical contact with each other are contacted at once. He has thought of the fact that there would be insects on the tree, and he can contact the tree and all the insects in one shot. That's interesting, and requires some discussion.
I must say that Maxx certainly understands how to pack a lot of actions into one post.
Harry rolls 48 on his bulk alertness spell, removing the fatigue from the whole batch. Of course, that they're not tired does not mean they want to go back to work, but there's a much better chance of it. If he gives me his speech, I'll roll his persuasion check.
I can't imagine that Nikolaj would not encounter dwarf jewelry and a few other cultural artifacts, but his GE roll of 18 does not suggest a great trove of such things.
I was going to say that product never comes in early in this world, but John 2 just rolled a 4 GE roll, so not only does he get exactly what he wants in terms of protective gear, he also gets his weapons ahead of schedule.
Yeah, I never get a 4 GE roll....
--M. J. Young
Tue Sep 15 2009 12:53 am # -
I don't see them often.
I put more time into Eric's new world idea than perhaps I could afford, but it is Tuesday and this is not Belgium so my workload is a bit lighter than other days. Still, I see Brock and Eric, Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, John 2, and Graeme waiting, and I really do not want to make everyone wait.
I've got a 9 GE roll in Brock's world, but am not entirely certain what he wants; I think, though, that it's better to move things along toward the next world, so we're going to have a bit of trouble. Let me roll an agility check for him--simple will do, 20 is rolled, which is exactly on failure for a 1@10 agility.
I am wrestling with Maxx' attempt to use senses to enhance each other. If I am understanding aright, he wants to be able to feel sound, having the vibrations impact his skin, and process that using both auditory and tactile processing centers along with the data received from his ears, to give him more auditory information. He wants to do the same with olfactory and gustational, feeding the smell into the taste. This will be a 5@1 skill, combining aspects of heightened sensation with some of altered sensation, a roll of 76 being too high for him to learn it this time around for the auditory enhancement. I have more trouble deciding what to do about the gustational enhancement, because that seems to be something people do already; but I will roll for it; 92 fails, but I'm certain enough that it's not a botch that I'm not going to pursue it.
He wants to contact telepathically a tree and an insect on the tree in a single roll. I'm struggling with whether to make it a new use of animal telepathy or a new skill; I'll go with new use. 59 is rolled, and with his 1@1 SAL and 3@ bias that's not going to work.
Before I move him to month eight, he's trying some other things in month seven, so we'll hold off a bit.
Harry did not give me any content for his speech, but just accepted my baseline. We'll give him +3 on his persuasion, though, because he just worked a miracle and he is an investigator, so when we roll a simple check of 18 it proves to be a solid success.
We'll bring Nikolaj back to the ranch.
John 2 is riding on that 4 GE roll, so of course he can afford these defensive clothing items if he wants them.
Graeme experiences the first real problem of a flatlined tech bias: no way per se to create flame technologically.
--M. J. Young
Wed Sep 16 2009 12:06 am # -
Pardon me for poking my nose into someone elses' thread, M.J., but how does a "flatlined tech bias" prevent Graeme from remembering how he's made fire in the past? It's not making sense. On the one hand, you have different physical laws that could keep those methods from operating, assuming that combustion is physically possible on that world. On the other hand, what is preventing him from trying to strike a match and just discovering that it won't light (perhaps insufficient oxygen in the air, or a mana-replaces-energy physics which requires making an invocation and offering to a fire elemental in order for flames to ignite)? And on the gripping hand, why would the "tech bias" be affecting his biological brain? Wouldn't that be a "body bias" issue?
Wed Sep 16 2009 12:31 am # -
johnosevens
MemberAs I understand it, if the bias is low enough, it basically interferes with your ability to recall certain things. The universe itself gets in the way of your ability to put two and two together. This is why you can't really understand how conjuring a fireball out of nothing actually works - because our Mag bias is too low. If the Tech bias is really 0@0 you'd be lucky if you remember what a match is, let alone what it's for or how it works (except that most Operate Device skills are @1 in Tech).
Wed Sep 16 2009 1:52 am # -
The universe gets in the way? Implying that memory is stored outside space-time, rather than in the physical tissues of the brain? That's an interesting, if somewhat cock-eyed, line of reasoning John.
Taking the explanation you've given a few steps further, let me see what would happen.
In a universe with sufficiently insufficient magic, Nikolaj would not only be unable to pray successfully for divine intervention, but would forget how to pray properly? Or even forget what "saviour" and "salvation" mean?
In a universe with a very poor body bias, a verser might be wondering why his chest is moving up and down, because he does not remember what breathing is? Would Maxx forget how to glow (something his sprite body apparently does constantly)?
How can concepts of a higher bias level be imagined, if they cannot be remembered because the bias is too low? That would seem to mean that most science fiction could never have been written, and much of Leonardo Da Vinci's theoretical work on mechanics should not have been possible, due to the tech level of his time period.
Another example. If the tech bias is too low for artificial sound generation, does that mean that no one can conceive of pounding grain or other seeds to cook, because of the noise that would also be produced? Or does it mean that objects hitting one another are soundless, if not alive?
Wed Sep 16 2009 2:42 am # -
How can concepts of a higher bias level be imagined, if they cannot be remembered because the bias is too low? That would seem to mean that most science fiction could never have been written,
Imagining that something is possible and understanding how it works are obviously different things. Otherwise, all that science fiction wouldn't be fiction - the authors would be doing it.
The rest of your objections have their own problems, but I imagine this topic deserves a separate thread. If you start one, perhaps quoting the relevant portions of what's been said here, I'm sure MJ will answer your questions to your satisfaction.
Wed Sep 16 2009 12:32 pm # -
Let me address the bias question briefly.
It is always a difficult part of low bias explaining why something is not working in a low bias world, but it is particularly difficult explaining it when it applies to technology. Part of the answer is put forward as less stable basic rules of physics and chemistry--that things don't work as well or as consistently. The other part of the answer is more difficult, but relies by analogy on an old Jon Pertwee Dr. Who concept. In the first season(s) of his tenure as Doctor, Pertwee's character had a mental block against temporal mechanics--he could not figure out how the TARDIS worked because the concepts themselves were barred from his mind.
In something of the same way, and particularly in a high magic low technology world, there is this suggestion that the powers that rule the universe don't want people to be able to use or develop technology, so they interfere with all thoughts which range outside that which is permissible. This is not really an active interference so much as a passive one: the universe itself has been so ordered that efforts to grasp technological concepts are impeded.
It happens (for reasons he has suspected) that in the world in which Graeme presently is it is important to the gods that rule this world that "outsiders" who understand technology not be able to use it against the locals here. It also happens that all technological firestarting techniques are "above the curve" and thus impossible--fire can be started only by non-technological means or by accident (botch on some other skill that is possible). It is possible to manipulate fire by technological means once you have it--transfer fire from one location to another, contain it, maintain it, extinguish it--but you have to get it first.
Indeed, I could have allowed Graeme to go through half a dozen matches trying to figure out why they wouldn't light, but partly because it would settle the matter quicker and partly because I didn't want to waste his matches I went straight to the mental block answer. Also, I recognized that he would be unlikely to make the distinction between the technology necessary to start a fire and that necessary to use one, and the mental block problem should leave him with the certainty that he could control a fire if he could get one.
Let me post this and then turn my attention to the game threads. Incidentally, questions are always welcome in any thread, and posting in the Behind the Screens thread does not constitute disrupting someone's game. If you want more on this, as Scott says, you can always open a new thread for it.
--M. J. Young
Wed Sep 16 2009 11:32 pm # -
I've been dabbing at Maxx' post while eating dinner, but need to get focused a bit so I can get through it and turn my attention to Harry, Nikolaj, John 2, and Adam, who just missed me yesterday.
Maxx wants to devise a new skill to reduce his need for sleep based on the one he has that gives him restful sleep. That skill reads
1@1 Restful Sleep M+2@1 lay down and cross arms, thinking a prayer for good rest and subsequent alertness 10:00 TF +70SM
We can make this one read
1@1 Reduced Sleep M+2@1 lay down and cross arms, thinking a prayer for good rest and subsequent alertness in half the time 20:00 TF +50SM
The previous skill had a +70SM, but +40 of that was for the fact that it did not reduce the amount of sleep time needed; he gets +10 instead of +40, which brings him down by 30; but he doubles the TF which gives him +10 more, so it's +50. His roll to learn it is 03, an obvious success. Taking a look at his probabilities, he's got the +50SM, +1@1 SAL, +10 for alliance holy magic, +8 for his religion, and +20 for his BRA, 99% chance of success at present, so he has to roll each time to use it.Maxx wants to attempt to feed tactile data into his audio processing center every day until it works or something else happens--but he rolls 99 on the meditation skill, so I think something else may just have happened. 1@10 BRA+2x3@ bias+1@3 SAL+5SM=44% chance of success, 56% chance to fail, 5% chance to botch, that is a botch. I'm going to come back to that.
I don't see a second GE roll for Harry telling how this fire problem is going, so I'll roll one now: 20 is bad enough.
We're coming to what is sort of a new chapter for Nikolaj. He has a new helper in the leather shop, and he has the pigments now.
John 2 wants to experiment with his new-found defensive material, and I'm going to have to roll several shots to see what happens.
I've got Merlin chaining his light spell to keep Adam out of the darkness, and 17 will keep it going. I roll 76 for the fire spell, which has a hefty sit-mod to assure it will almost always work, so Geneice provides a bit of light there. I should roll for telepathy for Geneice, but looking at the numbers I'm sure they've been practicing and should have higher skill ability levels and familiarity numbers, and I don't feel like fighting with that at the moment so I'm just going to give it to her. I'll hit the numbers and roll again if I think it's a critical situation.
--M. J. Young
Thu Sep 17 2009 1:55 am # -
johnosevens
MemberHey MJ... in that way of not demanding anything but requesting... Would it be possible to time-lapse ahead to my wedding soon, and then possibly think of a way to Verse us all out? I mean, a reputation for ridiculous sticking power is kinda cool... but it's coming up on three years I've been in this same Verse. It's time to go wandering, don't you think?
Thu Sep 17 2009 2:06 am # -
Harry, I keep looking for that really good GE roll that means clear sailing for a few months, but you don't seem to have grabbed it.
John, I don't think so. In any case, if I dropped another verser into your scenario, it would be someone with a head for tech, and with no offense intended toward Harry, that ain't him.
And I think Tristan's Labyrinth would not run well in the forum. It's much too map- and combat-based. But I'll think about it. I've never run it with someone with high mag or psi skills, and that could be interesting.
Right now, though, we're looking at Brock, Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, John 2, Adam, and Graeme--quite a gathering, but that it's not a Gathering.
Brock is seeking protection from the volcano; we'll give him a chance to think it through.
On that botch list, Maxx rolled 5, reverse skill learned. He was attempting to learn to feed tactile data and processing power into his auditory sense to enhance his hearing; instead he is going to learn to feed auditory data and processing power into his tactile sense. 68 means he gets a 1@2 Enhance Tactile Sense with Auditory P5@1 shuts down auditory sense and feeds sound as tactile impression. This also increases his bias to 5@1, so it proves to have been a very good botch.
Harry has some people to heal, and some healing magic he can use, but he's going to have to match up the healing magic to the people.
Nikolaj begins again with a new student, slightly younger.
I think I can give John 2 the kind of answers he wants.
With his 3@10 SAL in an @1 skill, Adam's got an excellent chance of getting the goggles to work even in this low 5@ bias world. 27 isn't even something I have to check numbers for. As he moves into the northern archway, he rolls a 19 GE roll, not what he wanted.
Graeme is so creative in his spells. Of course, the locals could not do anything he just did, but I think the pen will work (that seems an @1 operation skill). We've got a 5:00 TF. I'm thinking it's either a 4@ energy manipulative or a 5@ force shield, so I'm going to browse those levels. There is a 4@2 manipulate fire, and this could be a variant of that. I can also see it as a 5@5 Attack-specific shield focusing on heat and fire, which works better in my mind. These are usually instant activation, probably RS/10 minute duration; he wants a fixed duration of 1 hour. The duration penalty and the time factor bonus cancel each other, being just about equal. He needs a writing implement, but since I think charcoal would work that's +1; paper, +1, which is destroyed, +1. He also needs a heat sink, but that's a pretty general category, so we'll make that +1 also (from his description, he could use a rock, a jug of water, the trunk of a car, the hull of a spaceship, a metal suit of armor, a mace, even a large corpse, so this is wide open). It will require using both hands, +3, and I'm doing this entirely haphazardly, which is why I created the magic skills worksheet to help me focus on these things. We have appropriateness +5, chanting +3, magical language +5. The size is a bit big--5 square meters is larger than one normal person, but we'll say -20 for two doublings, and that comes to +0SM. He rolls 42 so we add 1@1 Shield against Heat and Fire M5@5 draw on a suitable material sheet a triangle inscribed within a triangle, and write "Oxygen", "Heat", and "Fuel" in the outer triangles this forms, drawing an icon of fire in the center triangle, while chanting "Ego servo is res" (Latin for "I protect this object"), pass the drawn image over self or other object up to five square meters, tear the image and place it on an object that can act as a large heat sink (jug of water, large rock). The spell will transfer damaging levels of heat away from the object into the sink, 5:00 TF 1:00:00 duration +0SM.
--M. J. Young
Fri Sep 18 2009 6:14 am #
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