John, there's really only one thing to do in Tristan's Labyrinth: try to survive, or don't.
But I'll consider it. After all, it would be interesting to use up all your bullets.
I had a rather disrupted day, and expect a similarly disrupted day on Sunday, but hopefully some time tomorrow. Thus I am going to close my day here and pick up with posts tomorrow (my usual off day).
--M. J. Young
I am not really fully with it tonight, but I think in combing over the board I have found everyone--which I have, if everyone is Brock and Scott, Maxx, Nikolaj, John 2, Adam, and Graeme.
I'm not that concerned with what happens to Scott once Brock can't see him, and Brock is headed for the cave. That seems to me to be a good place to die, as I have several possible ways he can die there, from superheated vapors to slipping and falling into the depths to boiling geysers to the direct ejection of lava to cave in to (actually the first that came to mind) sealing him inside. But he gets a GE roll for how he dies, and 14 is not desired but generally favorable, as I recall.
Brock gets a flexibility check, rolling 6 against a 2@1 flexibility, so I have to start him in a new thread at stage 2.
Maxx reaches the eighth month, and rolls a 28 will power check against crying when his teeth start cutting. If we were at the table, I'd make him roll these often, but instead I'm going with the fact that it's a bad check to mean he failed often.
Nikolaj is improving his understanding of his faith by his study, and now is going to be taking a young orc on an excursion near the jungle.
John 2 is finishing up his experiments with the weapons and the protective shirts.
Oops--he asked about pockets inside the jacket. I was sure there weren't, but a GE of 10 says otherwise--nearly as good as expected.
Adam rolls 63 on stealth, a skill he has at 3@10 for forest, and this isn't that different from forest really so I'll make it -5 for the environ; he's got 2x10@ bod bias and 3@1 BRA, so that's 86% chance of success, easily and strongly made.
Graeme is looking for red stones from which to make red paint. He rolls an 11 GE roll, so he's going to find red stones suitable for his task. His description of making the paint relies on the body skill manipulate object to grind the stones, and the compounding with water is not a skill he has but one he can probably get, if I can figure where it falls. Normally pigments of this sort are a T1@4 skill, related to coloring leather or pottery; but that's curved out here, so we're looking at squeezing in paint as a chemistry product at a higher bias level. He's got a 6@1 make gunpowder, I've noticed that 8@ is the level for pharmacology, and 9@ for synthetics; paint is not listed, but we'll assume that he can create a T6@1 create paint skill, -10 for the conditions, 88 rolled requires me to crunch numbers. He has an 11@1 tech bias for his computer programming, plus 2@3 BRA is 134, minus the target 6@1 is 73, and even without the -10 penalty that's not going to work. Bad luck on the roll, that, but it's a difficult world for just about anything technological.
--M. J. Young
Not to my knowledge. It's rare enough to meet your divergent, and the few of us who have did not really consider the idea of taking themselves with them.Has anyone ever taken their divergent as an associate verser?
Not to my knowledge. The closest I can recall is I've had two player characters verse out in the same accident. (I believe the younger knocked the coffee cup over that spilled into the computer the elder was trying to fix.)...has anyone ever started the game as someone elses' associate verser?
Harry, I don't have the context for this. Yes, you've got a 12@4 tech bias based on your Robotics (function machine) skill. That would apply if you are trying to learn a new tech skill. If you are trying to use a tech skill, that applies in the element:MJ, I do have a decent head for Tech. Not many fleshed-out Tech skills, mostly because I'm in a low-Tech world, but didn't I pull something like an 11@4 Tech bias with a Build/Program Decision Machine skill?
two times lesser of character area bias or world area biaswhich means in a low bias world it does not apply at all. Did that answer the question? The world restricts your ability to use technology.
Now, let's see if I can get through posts from Brock, Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, John 2, Adam, and Graeme--quite a crowd today.
Brock gets oriented to his new world--maybe. I must remember to post his character sheet.
With Maxx, I've been allowing that the first attempt he makes to use his read minds skill for a distinct purpose will determine whether it is a new use or not possible without a different skill. He rolled 71 on attempting to read his mind/body interface, which I think is a failure; but he does get +20 for reading his own mind, so I'd better check. He also gets 1@6 SAL, 2x5@ bias, and 1@10 BRA, all of which comes to 66%, and so I was right but shouldn't be so cocky. I'm going to note that, and roll for the new skill. He rolls 78 on trying to learn the skill separately, for which he gets his 5@1 bias+1@10 BRA+15@ world bias+20 for telepathy to himself-1@1 target skill=an easy success.
He is also attempting to teach himself a psionic pain relief skill. I'm going to question him about it, because there are two distinct possible interpretations of his intent and it makes a difference.
I previously ruled that his chain telepathy was a new use, and so I'll go by that. He rolls 39, with a 1@10 BRA+2x5@ bias+1@1 SAL=41, a success, new use means 1@2 SAL.
Harry has three patients so we'll roll his healing spell three times: 52, 74, 32. That's 6 intensities, 8 intensities, and 4 intensities.
Nikolaj brings his faith to the fore again, and again will face the problem that these people are religious but do not know his faith.
John 2 wants to put a collapsible shotgun in an inside pocket. I'm going to need more information for that.
The question is whether Adam has surprised his prey. Since he rolled a successful stealth roll, he's eliminated the target's intuition check, so unless the target has some skill that will help him he's not going to notice anything--although the vibroblade makes a faint hum, so if Adam successfully activates that in these conditions I'm going to have to roll an intuition check for whether the monster notices. First, though, is stance, 94 is doubtful even for him, but it's 3@10 for Chow En Lai+2x10@ bias+3@1 BRA=91, he's got to fail sometimes. The vibroblade roll is 78, which is again unlikely in this low tech world, his tech BRA 2@6 plus 2x5 for the world tech bias +3@1 for the SAL and a +15 SM on activation is 82%, so he's good this time. The enemy rolls 18+13=31 on intuition, clearly beyond its attribute, so there's no danger there. Still, I'll need Adam to decide whether to wait a few seconds to establish his stance or strike directly.
--M. J. Young
I did not mean to post that; I hope I posted Adam's thread before I closed it. Meanwhile, I'm still working on Graeme.
He recalls that he has a spell to color objects, which I roll as 15, which will work just fine without any more consideration. I'm going to need clarification before I tackle the fire spell, I think.
--M. J. Young
As mentioned in the next post (and wow, doesn't it look like I can manipulate time) I forgot yesterday to post Brock's character sheet; so here it is today, posted before I realized I forgot.
Attributes
Persuasion 1@8
Charisma 1@7
Animal Magnetism 1@5
Strength 1@6
Stamina 1@4
Resistance 1@9
Density 1@1
Flexibility 2@1
Agility 1@10
Hand/Eye 2@5
Intellect 2@1
Intuition 2@1
Education Level 1@10
Will Power 1@8
Averaged Attributes
Ranged Strike Value 2@3
Martial Strike Value 2@1
Target Value 1@7
Damage Value 1@6
Best Relevant Attributes
Tech 2@1
Psi 2@1
Mag 2@1
Bod 1@10
Bias
Tech
Psi
Mag
Bod
Weaknesses
I have very minimal use of my nearsighted right eye that requires me to close the left one to focus it at all, but it has always been that way, so my depth perception is not that bad, I know how to compensate. As such, I don't rely on peripheral vision, I rely on hearing and a "sixth sense" for detection. I am overweight, at 166% optimal weight. Also, I have trouble remembering things unless I consciously commit it to memory, and ritualizing the memory process by writing the info down greatly enhances the retention rate for me. I keep a notebook with me at all times, with a 'promise section' at the front for all things I have to do first.
Description
18 years old, b. 11/27/90 ambidexteritrous
Skills
Tech
1@8 Survival: Forest T0@1 includes edible plants
1@5 Tracking T0@1
1@5 Simple Fire Skills Package T1@X
1@8 Ignite Fire from Spark T1@2
1@3 Use Bow T2@1
1@7 Electronic Repair T10@3
1@4 Computer Programming T11@1
1@1 Build Function Machine (Robot) T12@2
Psi
familiarity: mother+10
1@9 French P0@0
1@1 Read Minds P1@1
1@8 Aura Reading (Empathy) P1@1 identifies emotional state of visibly observed subject +10SM (must see subject)
1@5 Heightened Awareness of Surroundings P3@1 enables user to know general layout of buildings or other structures, locations of entrances and exits, location of individuals and identities of those familiar, and other information, without searching.
1@1 TK Pulse T4@1 (used to control coin flips)
Mag
1@5 Harmonica M0@0
Bod
1@10 Stealth B0@6 includes stalking, unobtrusive presence
1@8 Tumble to Erect Position B4@4
1@10 Fall Impact Absorption B4@6
1@1 Tae Kwon Do T7@1
1@10 Brock's Vital Area Style B7@1 fast defensive weapon-utilizing poke style RF2 -20 def SM
1@10 Use Staff B7@1 martial arts weapon skill
1@6 Brock's Staff-based Martial Arts Style B7@1 weapon-dependent vital area style fast aggressive RF2 +10 att SM -10 def SM
Equipment
Backpack, 60 liter, divided into two main sections and a small frontal section
4 t-shirts with witty slogans like "by reading this you have given me temporary control of your mind" (black, white, and blue) in backpack
Black t-shirt in backpack
Blue t-shirt in backpack
3 pairs Black sweat pants in backpack
Package of socks (11 left, open) in backpack
4 pair boxer shorts in blue in backpack
1-liter canteen, full
Pocket Book entitled Star Wars: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction: A novel of the Old Republic
Carved mahogany staff, polished and lacquered, 5'10" length.
Steel and plastic harmonica made in Germany made by Marine Band (M. Hohner), was stepped on and the highest not won't play, pocket
Marine Biology fourth edition textbook by Peter Castro and Michael E. Huber
Baseball card box 2 foot by 6 inch by 6 inch full of Magic the Gathering cards, about 6 lbs
Paperback set of the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind, up to Chainfire (total of nine books in the set owned). Books are pocket sized, with roughly 600-800 pages each, in backpack
4 gigabyte pin drive containing a large amount of roleplaying game material .pdf files, and some assorted novels in .lit format, which are exceptionally small and are read by Microsoft Reader. 3.87 GB occupied, pocket
Assorted roleplaying materials, including a couple maps I took from a BattleMech kit and a bunch of characters I have been asked to hold, as well as the unforgettable characters with fully fleshed out stories that I made, like Kimichiko Otoro for Shadowrun. In a 3-ring binder notebook that can easily hold 1000 pages. about 15 lbs
Journal-type notebook with various notes on a RP system I was making, a book I have been writing, random thoughts, and reminders to do things
Plastic bag containing about 800 assorted Pokemon cards.
Plastic bag containing about 600 Lord of the Rings cards.
3-ring binder notebook holding about 1500 Harry Potter cards
Pocketbook: Elminster: the making of a mage by Ed Greenwood (I think)
Pocketbook: The Source of Magic by Piers Anthony
2 pictures of my little half-brother William, one where he first walked and one where he was drawing
Wallet, contains a nickel, two dimes, and three pennies, state ID card (printed vertically to show I am a minor, even though I am now 18, it's a bit old), high school ID showing my student number and school related info, a June 09 bus pass for Pierce Transit for unlimited free rides during June of 09, and a money tree card allowing me to cash checks at Money Tree made out to me without my ID (that might be useful in Earth similar worlds!), in pocket
Pair of black boxer shorts on person
Pair of navy blue shorts reading Air Force J.R.O.T.C. (junior ROTC), on person
Bag of dice in my equipment. 5 D20s, 3 D12s, 3 D10s and their match for d100s, 3 d8s, 26 d6s, and 5 d4s. 3 of each type are matched color sets in clear w/blue flecks, opaque aqua, and transparent jade green
Swiss Army Knife, knife, nail clippers, scissors, file, and other tools
Pair black shoes that fit adequately, size 13, leather-like
Fork
Spoon
Butter knife
Steak Knife
Black ceramic plate
Blue Plastic Bowl 6" diameter 4" depth ~<2c. Capacity
Pot, 8"r 6"h
Paper bag containing ~80 plastic grocery store bags
Can-opener old fashioned army type
2 cans corn
2 cans green beans
Red blanket with quilt pattern on one side
Pillow
Stage 2
World List Tropical Island
--M. J. Young
Let's see what we can do today with posts from Maxx, Harry, Scott, John 2, and Adam.
Most of what Maxx wants I can address directly within the thread; but he has decided that the kill he is targeting reduces/eliminates pain, rather than making it endurable, so we'll go for that. His bias is 5@1, his BRA is 1@10, and the world area bias is 15@; his targeted skill is P6@1 Reduce Pain. That gives him a 25% chance of success, a 7% chance to botch. He rolls 14, reducing his pain some, and increasing his bias to 6@1 as we add 1@1 Reduce Pain P6@1 by self-hypnosis to induce happy thoughts creating a hormone that intercepts the pain signals.
Harryrolls 15 on a GE; the call for it is that he has used holy magic to heal three people and although he is not evangelizing he is interested in the possibility that religion might come to this essentially atheist world. 15 is not unfavorable.
I often see much of myself in Scott, and there it is again, as he manages adroitly to transform an opportunity to seduce a girl into a religious discussion. But then, if he manages the religious side of the thing, the opportunity is more likely to turn into a long-term relationship.
John 2 is not looking for the post I need to answer his question, so I'm going to have to set aside time to look for it.
Speaking of which, I forgot to post Brock's character paper. Let me see to that A.S.A.P.
O.K., I'm back--clever that way.
Adam is going to attack his opponent. He has surprise, so there's no roll for initiative; he gets I think six attacks with this sword, and his opponent cannot strike back until at least three have been launched. He also has a very high chance to hit and devastating damage, so let's roll: 41 with a weapon that is base dangerous +5 points with a dependent damaging rider, so we're looking at 46 rolled for damage, and Adam gets +DC+10 for his 3@10 SAL so that's lethal+damaging on a roll of 56, and he gets +DC for his 2@9 MSV so that's fatal+damaging on an effective roll of 56. He also has 3@1 on the use of the vibro function, which should also be treated as +DC+10 on top of the +DC for the MSV, so that makes it lethal with a roll of 66, which is 28+14=42 intensities of damage which will take out anything up to a 2@1 DV. I've got ghouls with low 2@ DVs, though, so let's give him a GE roll for this: 18 is not bad enough to warrant having the thing survive.
--M. J. Young
I opened the board quite a while back, but got sidetracked into the matter of making dinner. In any case, I have posts from Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, and John 2 waiting.
My reluctance to give the needle a smooth flat surface that would be reflective is confirmed by a 19 GE roll.
I'll be interested in hearing Harry's evangelism. He's got miracles on his side at the moment, and an audience that has been caught by the pragmatic aspect of healing, so we'll see what sense he makes to them.
Nikolaj has a great response for the man's statement, but I'm going to need a roll for how that is taken. I'm not sure whether to use Nikolaj's 1@8 charisma (or 1@7 persuasion) or whether to go with a GE roll. I think I'll go with the charisma check verses a will power check on a 1@5 standard will power, 13 against 25, he's got it.
We've come to an understanding about the guns John 2 acquired, so we'll be able to move forward from that.
--M. J. Young
I believe you are mistaken, John--you are not counting the time I spent on Maxx' post, but only from when I hit publish for him.
Speaking of Maxx, he starts us again today, followed by Harry, Nikolaj, John 2, and Adam.
I've had a lot to answer for Maxx, but nothing yet to roll.
Harry is going to attempt to persuade his audience to convert from an unchallenged atheism to a form of theism. I think we're going to add a skill to his sheet, previously overlooked because he's never used it.
Nikolaj is creating an unusual sort of protection prayer, one that protects by guiding circumstances, that is, avoiding the danger rather than defending against it. It is appropriate for such a prayer to last "through the present situation" which I will take to mean for this few hours of foraging. 1:00 is the baseline TF. I'm giving +10 because it does not do anything obvious or flashy but still protects, -15 because it covers more than one person (but is limited to the number of people he can touch), +5 for appropriate words, +3 for two hands, all of which make the inherent sit-mod +3, and with his 1@8 BRA, half his 1@10 religion, and 7@9 bias his chance of successfully learning this 1@6 skill is 104%, and the die roll is only for how well he does it, 99 giving him a 1@3 Protection from Attacks M+1@6 lay both hands on companions and pray for one minute, "Lord please protect us on this journey. Protect us from possible attacks from orcs or wild beasts as we look for the things we need. Thank you Lord. Amen." with eyes closed, +6SM. I missed the closed eyes in my analysis, and they're worth an extra body part.
John 2 is back in psionics classes. The next skill on Lauren's page happens to be one she learned in this world, so she doesn't know it well yet, but we'll play it out and see what John wants to do.
I think we need a GE roll for what Adam finds next. I'm inclined to go to the coffin, but he wants more playthings first. 17 seems to be right in the middle. I think that the next room should be so dark that the starlight goggles would not work in the near corners until there's more light in the room, but the way to determine that is to put a -20 penalty on it and roll to see whether he is able to see in those darker areas with them. He rolls 47, for a 3@10 SAL with a 2@6 BRA and as long as he has at least one point for bias he's overcome the penalty.
I might need to put together a vampire for him.
--M. J. Young
I've reached the end of the week, and I am going to mention that there is an important company meeting on Sunday afternoon which might (or might not) impinge on my ability to get here Sunday evening. Meanwhile, let me address posts from Maxx, Harry, John 2, Adam, and Graeme.
Maxx is indifferent to the color of Morach's eyes, but I need some basis on which to form an interpretation of a roll, so I'm going to pursue this a bit further. He gets a GE roll for handedness, hoping for ambidextrous, and notes that he is slightly left-handed in reality. I get a 17 GE roll, so we'll go with same.
I have added a 1@5 Preaching P0@1 skill to Harry's sheet, and now I'll roll against it: 46 is close, but he's in a flatlined Psi world with a 1@9 BRA, so 34 is as good as would succeed. On the other hand, he should not be penalized because he failed to persuade with a skill when he could have persuaded without a skill, so we will also roll his persuasion against their will power again (we did this once rather successfully, as I recall), but he rolls an unpersuasive 27 against 32, 29, 33, uncommitted individuals.
Lauren rolls 20 on implanting the skill pattern for Pyrogenesis in John 2's mind, so he's got a 2@10 example of the skill, and an 07 roll gives him 1@1 Pyrogenesis P7@4.
Adam promised the next kill to Geneice, and the next kill turns out to be the vampire, and she's not really certain how to do that--but I don't know what he'll suggest, either.
Graeme still has strongly technological notions in his approach to creating fire by magic, but if he thinks about them he might change his mind.
--M. J. Young
johnosevens
Member
This business of preaching raises for me an interesting question. When one is converted or changes religions, what happens to your Religion skill, the one that powers your divine magic?
Does it convert with you at the same skill level? (I'm certainly not as adept at Asatru as I still am at Roman Catholicism, even though my Catholic prayers would have no actual faith behind them.)
Do you wind up with multiple Religion skills? What if you have academic knowledge of a religion you never actually practiced? (Am I 2@5 Paganism (Asatru), 2@5 Roman Catholicism, 1@10 Unite Methodism, 1@3 Greek Orthodoxy, along with 1@5 Islam, 1@2 Buddhism, and so forth?)
Does only your current religion power your divine magic? Or only your highest? Or only the one you say is powering this particular prayer (i.e. a prayer to Odin using Paganism (Asatru), saying a Mass using Roman Catholicism)?
Academic knowledge of a religion not practiced is M0@1 Theology.
Divine magic performed without belief is oxymoronic. You can only have, at most, one functional Religion skill.
Changing religions commonly results in the old religion converting to a Theology at the same skill ability level. Often, the new religion is learned as a new skill, often with example and teaching bonuses. However, the referee deals with the details of any particular conversion case-by-case; it does not come up often.
I'm sure I asked a lot of questions about this in an old thread. I'll see if I can dig up a link.
Edit: This thread isn't as general as I remembered, but it is relevant. I keep wanting to go back through the whole site and tag everything properly, but there's just so much . . .
I strongly disagree with WilliamTWodium about only having one functional religion skill. Do you know what chaos magic is? If I decide to change my magical paradigm to Wicca or Sikhism, I don't lose the access to Buddhist or Lovecraftian spirits that I've already forged alliances with. And when I swing back to my default paradigm, I'm not going to suddenly find myself denied power by a Sikh sigil I had created while in that state.
Nodwick - you have one religion skill, with which you perform your chaos magic. You have forged relationships with all of these entities, and all of that is represented in whatever-religion-you-have.
Alternatively, you are not using holy magic at all, but are rather using arcane magic to call upon spirit entities who are themselves using skills on your behalf.
When I saw Harry's post, I was going to start a new thread on it; but it seems to have been addressed quite adequately here. Your "religion" is what you actually believe about God, gods, and the supernatural realm; the skill ability level in that reflects a combination of knowledge and faith (degree to which you trust what you claim to believe). Any knowledge you have about religions that you do not believe falls into the category of theology. For Harry's purposes, having a 2@5 SAL at Theology: Roman Catholicism M0@1 would automatically grant a 1@10 SAL in theologies of similar religions (after all, you cannot understand one theology at a professional level without understanding how it differs from other views), and you could umbrella dissimilar systems as effectively 0@10 skills. He would then also have his 2@5 Pagan Asatru Religion M1@0, which would be the basis of his holy magic.
Matt, meanwhile, has a religion skill in some form of paganism (we've not yet discussed it) which believes in the existence of many spirits/gods with whom he can form relationships. Also, whether his chaos magic is holy magic (petitioning spirits for assistance) or arcane magic (using the concept of spirits as elements to help focus his own ability to channel magic, even though the spirits themselves are not involved) would have to be determined as well.
Which is what Scott said, but there must be some reason for me to repeat it, and I'll let you know if I think of one....
Meanwhile, having addressed the new post on Character Creation, I am turning my attention to Maxx, Harry, Hikolaj, John 2, Adam, and Graeme.
Maxx rolls 22 on the GE roll for hair and eye color, and his preference is for Black/Black which is what his human self has. I'm going with silver hair and violet eyes.
He gets two chances to remember the Morse code characters he needs--one on his education level and the other on his enhanced memory skill. I'll call it a simple check for the first, and he rolls 6, so he remembers enough characters to do the code he wants. Now I have to remember why he was doing that.
First, though, I've found the reference to tying knots. Humans ordinarily have a 2@3 Manipulate Object skill, which is developed over about two decades. I'm thinking that at eight to nine months old he's got a 1@1 SAL at this, combined with his BRA, on which he is way ahead of the curve--children his age are usually 0@8 Strength and 0@10 Agility, and he's already at 1@2 Strength and 1@2 Agility, and has his 1@8 will power on top of that. Two year olds have 0@9 strength and 1@1 agility, so he's a remarkable child. Still, a 1@1 SAL+1@8 BRA+2x2@ bias for being able to stand erect (supported) means 33% chance that he can perform this task. 71 is a major failure on that.
Harry rolls a GE 13, Barely Good Enough, on the circumstances surrounding the fire. I figure he's handled the healings and the people who were going off shift, but there might be something else afoot.
Nikolaj's GE roll on the foraging is 22, which is not bad enough to overcome his successful protection prayer. Let's find out whether he has any skill or experience at what he's doing.
John 2 wants to use his new pyro skill to harass his teacher, and he rolls 96 on a skill with a 2x7@ bias+1@1 SAL+2@2 BRA=47% chance of success, 5% chance to botch, we've got a botch. I've got a list of ten possibles:
It comes to me that I have a good vampire already made. He's a bit dim-witted, but he's a beast for all that. He's got a 1@7 TV, 3@2 bod improvise weapon skills, 1@8 RSV, 2@1 MSV, 2@5 DV, and we will start with Geneice taking Adam's advice. She needs to make her stealth roll, 3@10 SAL+3@1 BRA+2x10@ bias and she rolls--I've managed to lose another 10-sided die and I don't know how I did it, but with one die I roll 75, which is an easy and strong success, so she's got the stealth and has time to set up. She rolls 82 on Chow En Lai, for which she has 3@10 SAL+3@1 BRA+2@10 bias=91, another strong success. Now for the blow--but wait, this is not her chosen sword; is it 2@10 for a different katana, or 1@10 for a different sword?
I need to calculate Graeme's chance of success here for the heat creation skill. I note specifically that the skill does not guarantee the creation of fire, but only the creation of intense heat; using that heat to create fire is a completely separate question.
I'm looking at a baseline of 6 minute TF for 10 (F) degrees increase in a 10,000 cubic foot volume. I'm looking at a considerably greater increase in heat in a considerably smaller "volume", a solid object roughly two cubic inches. Counting halvings, I've got 5000, 2500, 1250, 625, 312.5, 156.25, 78.125, that's 7 halvings and time to shift to cubic inches, I think. 78.125 cubic feet is 135,000 cubic inches, from which we go to 67500, 33750, 16875, 8437.5, 4218.75, 2109.375, 1054.6875, 527.34375, 263.671875, 131.8359375, 65.91796875, 32.958984375, 16.4794921875, 8.23974609375, 4.119873046875, 2.0599365234375, and this is why I keep a calculator with my gaming supplies. That's 23 halvings of volume, +230. He also gets a bonus for increasing the TF from 6:00 to 10:00, +7 for 66%. He gets +1 for a red stone, +5 for appropriate, +1 for drawing equipment, +1 for destroying the stone, it appears that he can use either hand so -2, +5 for magical language, and we've got to determine the modification for temperature. There's a very high probability of success here, since even if he wants to raise the temperature by a thousand degrees, that's only about six and a half doublings.
--M. J. Young
It's late, but I'm going to attempt to get a start, at least, on threads featuring Maxx, Nikolaj, John 2, Adam, and Graeme.
I probably could have done more with Maxx, but as stated I am running short on time, not to mention tired, so I'm going to try to address everyone at least briefly.
On a roll of 46 Nikolaj picks up a simple foraging skill, 1@1 Foraging T0@1. That's also a moderately strong roll, so we'll give him reasonable success.
John 2 is straightforward.
I'm not going to make Adam wait another day for the attack, only for the damage if it connects. Geneice rolls 23, saving me a lot of trouble on math and tricky questions, and her SAL combined with her 2@8 MSV means dangerous+DC=lethal damage, 5 intensities, on a target with a 2@ damage value means 2 effective, but she still has her rider, as soon as
Graeme took the temperature of the rock to 2000F. Seven doublings makes the increase 1280, which with an 80 degree starting temperature makes it 1360, plus the difference of 640/1280, convenient that, we get seven and a half doublings, -75. We already calculated the rest, and were at 247, from which we subtract 75 and get (the shortcut is subtract a hundred and add twenty five, figuring we're three below 150 means 175 minus three is +172SM, this is a reliable spell), and the roll only matters to the learning level: 66 is 1@2.
The problem now is whether his two thousand degree stone will transfer heat to a flammable material when he attempts to do this. I've got listings for starting a fire from spark, friction, light, electricity, and body heat, but not from raw heat like this, so I'm going to have to give it a bit of thought.
--M. J. Young
JohnA1nut
Member
The problem now is whether his two thousand degree stone will transfer heat to a flammable material when he attempts to do this. I've got listings for starting a fire from spark, friction, light, electricity, and body heat, but not from raw heat like this, so I'm going to have to give it a bit of thought.
You've never accidentally set something on fire using an electric stove? It's quite possible from raw heat.
John - the question at issue is not, "is it possible to start a fire from raw heat (in our universe)?", it's, "what's the Tech bias of a skill which starts a fire from raw heat (in this circumstance)?"
If you were using an electric stove, it would be the bias for Operate Electric Stove. Unfortunately for MJ, there is no listing for Operate Superheated Rock.
While I'm on the subject . . .
I'm inclined to say that this would be T1@2, because that's the lowest bias I can find listing skills which involve using heat directly. Sun-Baked Pottery is T1@2, as is Cook. Given that Cook T1@2 does not require fire, only "a sustainable heat source (such as a fire)", I assume it would cover an attempt to cook with this rock - pancakes, for example, or fried eggs, or soup. If he can use a hot rock to cook under a particular bias, it seems to me he ought to be able to start a fire with that rock under the same bias.
Given the skills listed for T1@1, I can't find any explicit justification for allowing an Ignite Fire from Heated Object as an @1 skill. I also note that all of the Ignite skills are at least @2, and I'm generally wary of expanding on the flatline capabilities of any bias level. Since I suspect the bias of this world is zero or negative, that probably means that Graeme is out of luck, this time.
Or he would be, if it were my call.
JohnA1nut
Member
Ya know, I think I found a hole in the system. Explosive driven slug throwers are @1 technology, therefore, they work in a flatline bias. What is a bullet explosion? It's a chemical, impact-detonated ignition. Scott is saying that ignition is an @2 technology. So, either guns don't work in a flatline world, or you could start a fire by setting off a bullet.
It's an old emergency fire starting trick. Take the bullet head off, dump out the gunpowder, and ignite it by hitting the bullet primer with a rock or something. Same thing the gun is doing, you're just doing it by hand, and not in a confined space.
Actually, that's an interesting demonstration of how bias operates. It's not that gunpowder doesn't burn or explode in a flatline world; obviously it does, because the gun works. (For you. Not for the indigs.) It's that you can't start a fire from a spark.
How the referee characterizes and describes that inability is up to him. If you were playing in my game, you were in a world with a 0@1 Tech bias (like Men of Psience), and you told me you wanted to try that trick, I would probably run it this way:
* You know that when you pull the trigger of the gun, the hammer hits the bullet, and that makes an explosion, and the explosion pushes the bullet out very fast.
* You know that explosions cause fires, sometimes. (Or was it that fires cause explosions? That might be true, too.)
* You have the idea that if you could take the explosion out of the gun, you might be able to start a fire with it.
* You don't understand how you might be able to make the explosion happen outside of the gun.
* You remember it involved taking a bullet apart, but - if the bullet is outside of the gun, how do you make it explode? The gun does that. It's confusing.
You end up staring a bullet and wondering why you can't remember how this stuff works.
___
If it helps, keep in mind that only operating the gun - that is, loading and firing - is 6@1. If you wanted to sabotage the gun, that's 6@2, and that's curved out. If you wanted to repair the gun - even something as simple as clearing a jam - that's 6@3, and it's curved out. The same thing that's keeping you from being able to take the gun apart and put it back together so that it works is also keeping you from taking a bullet apart so you can use the gunpowder as a fire starter. In a universe with that low of a tech bias, you just don't get it.
Kind of like how, in this universe, you just don't get how to pick stuff up with your mind.
JohnA1nut
Member
Or is it that you wouldn't know that hitting it with a rock would sabotage it? If that's the case, then shouldn't I have instantly known that Pearl Harbor was flatlined for psionics the moment I arrived? If I had known that, I wouldn't have been trying to harass the MP.
JohnA1nut
Member
Lots-o-posts
You know that explosions cause fires, sometimes. (Or was it that fires cause explosions? That might be true, too.)
Just to clear this up for you, that's a very common misconception. Gunpowder burns in open air, it only explodes in a confined space. When you fire the gun, (confined space) all of the powder burns up in microseconds. In open air, the same amount of gunpowder takes several seconds to burn. Hence, how that fire starting trick works.
EDIT: Which, now that I think about it, explains why the gun fires but the gunpowder won't light. Completely different physics. I guess this does make sense after all.
I know it's a misconception. That's why I put it in your flatlined-tech-bias thoughts. Some other referee might allow you to still know that gunpowder burns easily, and that burning up inside the bullet is what makes the explosion, but then he has to explain why you can't take the gunpowder out and light it (probably by saying: "you know it's supposed to burn easy, and in the gun it's the hammer that lights it, but how on Earth are you supposed to light it without the hammer?").
So hitting the gun with a rock is curved out? That would be a way to sabotage it....
Hitting the gun with a rock is not curved out, but neither is it an attempt to sabotage the gun. It is an attempt to destroy the gun outright with a T3@1 Use Blunt Weapon skill.
In my mind, "sabotage" implies that it's not obvious that the thing is broken unless you inspect it carefully or try to use it. Carefully filing away at a wagon wheel's spokes so that it will break when it hits a bump in the road is sabotage; burning the wagon to the ground is not.
You wouldn't be able to deliberately jam the gun, for example, or take it apart and put it back together after throwing a piece away. The most you could manage would be taking out all the bullets (covered under Operate Gun T6@1), or breaking it with a rock (T3@1).
JohnA1nut
Member
Scott, you're very good at explaining things. The other thing though is that, with guns, to sabotage it, all you really need to do is plug the barrel with something. Dropping it barrel first in the mud would do. Plugging the barrel would cause it to explode the next time it was fired. Or is it that you could drop the gun, thereby accidentally sabotaging it, but not know how to clean the mud out? (Fixing the gun is curved out) Or that you couldn't drop it in the mud with the intention of plugging the barrel with mud? This sounds like it would be very complicated for a referee to remember.
Scott, you're very good at explaining things.
Thank you! I try, and I think I've learned a bit from watching MJ do it; I notice bits of his style creeping into mine.
Or is it that you could drop the gun, thereby accidentally sabotaging it, but not know how to clean the mud out? (Fixing the gun is curved out) Or that you couldn't drop it in the mud with the intention of plugging the barrel with mud? This sounds like it would be very complicated for a referee to remember.
Yes, exactly. Dropping the gun into the mud with the intention of plugging the barrel requires a level of practical technological understanding that is simply not permitted in a flatlined bias world. And it's that same lack of understanding that prevents you from fixing the gun if it happens to get plugged with mud by accident.
As for being complicated for the referee to remember . . . well, yes, a little. I always study up on the bias listings before I try to run a world with flatlined bias (or any unusual bias, really). Looking it over again before every session doesn't hurt, either.
Also, I imagine it's most challenging the first time, and that after you've run flatlined tech a few times you get more familiar with it and more used to adjudicating it. Running Men of Psience was hard at times ("Hm, Graham wants to get dressed; is that curved out?* Let's see, cloth technology is level two . . ."), but Bah Ke'Gehn was easier because I'd done low-tech before.
__
*Answer: no, it's an @1 device operation skill
Scott might be better at explaining things than I, and I agree with all of his examples--but for one minor oversight on his problem. The "repair rule" works top down, and since "design and build explosive driven slug thrower", that is, a gun, is a 6@4 skill, modify is 6@3, repair is 6@2, and sabotage is 6@1--within the flatline. Thus you could sabotage a gun by clogging the barrel (or removing the firing pin or disconnecting the trigger mechanism or any other intelligent approach to preventing the gun from operating), but you could not reverse the problem and repair it.
Also, as Scott says, smashing a gun with a rock does not constitute sabotaging it; but quite apart from his excellent observations that this involves simply attacking the gun with blunt force, there is the additional problem that you can smash a gun with a rock and not damage any of the functional parts--a revolver or a rifle with a damaged handle or stock can still fire. To prevent the gun from operating you would have to smash a part that is critical to the function of the weapon, and that indicates that you have to, under the current bias, understand what parts are critical to the function. If you simply put the gun down and smash it with a rock, a general effects roll is the best you've got for whether you managed to break the gun--and it opens the possibility that you managed to shoot yourself or otherwise cause internal explosions.
And concerning explosions and fire, both are oxidizing reactions, and in fact are the same reaction; both are expansive. However, why the gun works is a mystery in a flatlined bias world. Still, nothing says that you can't have a fire in this world--only that you cannot intentionally start one.
That is the issue in connection with the hot stone: can Graeme intentionally start a fire with a magically superheated stone? As Scott suggests, there are no fire ignition skills in the flatlined bias, so the question becomes whether because of what Graeme does a fire accidentally starts, and what sort of fire he gets. Fortunately, skills are possible which will contain, transfer, maintain, and extinguish a fire, so if he manages to cause an accident through the careless placement of a superheated stone near flammable materials, he hopefully will be able to get that fire under control.
I've received something of an emergency interruption and must leave for the moment. I hope to return.
--M. J. Young
JohnA1nut
Member
Here's one for you. As I understand it, "Push the button" is technology that anyone can do. After all, you don't have to know how the time machine works to push the button that starts it. So, why can't the indig use a gun? "Push the button" "Pull the trigger" What's the difference? If the indig has hands capable of gripping the gun, and his finger is capable of curving around the trigger, why can't he use it? He doesn't have to know why it goes boom in order to make it happen.
As far as sabotaging guns, if the verser IS the only one capable of using them, why would he sabotage his own gear? Of course, just because he is able doesn't mean he would.
I am back, but trying to beat back a headache. I'm going to call it a night and put this off until tomorrow, with apologies to all.
--M. J. Young
That's what I get for not looking up skills before I talk about their bias . . .
If something really is just "push the button," it's classed as an @0 skill. Apparently, the designers didn't think firing a gun was quite that simple. Consider that the gun must be loaded, cocked, aimed (taking into account gravity over the distance), fired (accounting for kick), and occasionally reloaded. If you had a gun where you could push one button and have the gun take care of all of that for you, that would probably be an @0 skill.
It might not be 6@0, though. For example, if it was all done by computer, that's 11@0, or 12@0 if it's a robot, or 13@0 if it's a human-level AI . . .
Edited to add that I'm sorry to hear about the headache, and I hope it abates with merciful speed.
JohnA1nut
Member
Scott, what I said was said under the assumption that the gun was loaded and ready to fire. I guess under those circumstances, it would work.
And MJ, do you know the easiest, fastest way to get rid of a headache? Drop a brick on your foot. You forget all about the pain in your head. Hope you got some good sleep.
Hey, for once at least I know I am not the CAUSE of your headache HAHAHAHAHA.
Ah, more on guns.
You have to pull the trigger, of course, but you also have to be ready for the kick, don't you? Using the gun means more than pulling the trigger; it means understanding some of the concept of what the gun does and how it does it, so you can point it the right way.
There was a wonderful D&D module, something like Mission to the Barrier Peaks, in which the medieval D&D characters find and explore part of a crashed colony space ship. To facilitate play, the authors drew pictures of objects the characters would encounter, but made them such that you would not be able to guess their function based on modern knowledge. For example, the device that appeared to have a screen and several buttons was not a communicator or computer, but a heat weapon. The device that looked like a gun was a translator. If you did not know what a device was, you were taking a serious risk attempting to use it.
I certainly do not expect that a verser would want to sabotage his own weapon--unless of course he was concerned that that other verser was going to steal it and use it. He also might want to sabotage that other verser's weapons.
Failure to use a device does not necessarily mean that it does nothing. Someone who does not understand a gun could pull the trigger and shoot you, or himself, or the tires, or the gas tank, or the unstable nuclear device, or the dirt. Of course, if the safety happens to be on, he won't know how to change that, and if he's trying to operate the weapon himself he might turn on the safety--the trigger is not the only part that moves.
--M. J. Young
JohnA1nut
Member
You have to pull the trigger, of course, but you also have to be ready for the kick, don't you?
Yeah, but by that point, the gun is fired, the bullet has left the muzzle, and has hit whatever it was pointed at. Not knowing that there is a kick would do very little to change that.
I've actually had a 44 magnum come flying out of my hands. I still hit the target. My uncle (who owned the gun) caught it as it went over my head, hit me over the head with it, and said "Grip it tighter this time." That's also why the largest handgun I will get is a 357 magnum.
Things have been a bit unpredictable around here, but let's see if we can catch up on threads from Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, John 2, Adam, and Graeme.
Maxx is teaching himself a new pain-relieving prayer. It reads something like this:
In a relaxed position, touch area of pain; once per minute perform "Pain fly away gesture" then clap (dot) and drum (dash) "BYE" in Morse code while saying "Bye", for 30 minutes, and pray repeatedly that the pain will be more bearable. Effective through the present pain event.It is holy alliance magic, a M+2@1 curative. Since both remove fatigue and limited damage repair have one minute time factors, we will assume a one minute baseline time factor here, and give bonuses of +49 for almost five doublings (2, 4, 8, 16, 32). It should be good for up to eight hours, which I will add to the description. He has +5 for appropriateness, +5 for the use of another language (Morse code), +3 for loudly (hard to drum quietly), +3 for two hands, and that comes to +65, probably an automatic success so let me roll before I finish the math: 49 is certainly in there for 1@1 Eliminate Pain M+2@1 In a relaxed position, touch area of pain; once per minute perform "Pain fly away gesture" then clap (dot) and drum (dash) "BYE" in Morse code while saying "Bye", for 30 minutes, and pray repeatedly that the pain will be more bearable. Effective through the present pain event up to eight hours +65SM.
Next we're looking at a P7@6 Redirect Energy, a more limited application perhaps but also requiring more precision, so we'll call it baseline. He wants to capture the light that emanates from his body and focus it in the direction his right hand points. He also intends to rest at least two hours before, and expects to be exhausted requiring at least 4 hours rest after, the skill. I am thinking that this is +25 (+5 for the advance rest, +10 for using a body part for a focal point, +10 for significant exhaustion), and we are building from P6@1 bias and 1@10 BRA and 15@ world bias, so a roll of 38 is in there (I thumbnail 45% as the target), 1@1 Redirect Light P7@6 must rest two hours before, use right hand to direct focus, will gather local light and beam it outward for RS/5 minutes, exhaustion following use requires immediate rest for four hours, +25SM.
The prayer for the deer is probably best handled as a M+1@4 bonus checks, focused on the deer's ability to find food. It's a one hour prayer instead of a one minute prayer, but the one minute prayer is for RS minutes duration and Maxx wants to carry the deer through the winter. The bonus for TF is +59, but six doublings of d100 minutes is d6400 minutes, averaging 3200 minutes, 53:20, or two days, five hours, twenty minutes. If we want to make that last a week, that's 3.15 times as long for 168 minutes; one doubling to reach 106:20 and another 0.6 to reach the target. So that's -16 SM for the balance between an hour of prayer and a week of bonus. We can give him +5 for appropriateness, and a roll of 20 gives him 1@1 Bonus Survival Skills M+1@4 pray for one hour using appropriate words, provides one week of RS/10 bonus to all survival skill checks of intended target -16SM.
That was a lot of work for such a short post, but we've added a couple of skills to his sheet.
Harry rolls 14 on the conditions at the fire.
There's not much to cover for Nikolaj at present, but things are still moving forward for him.
I think John 2 needs a charisma check for his apology for Lauren, and he's got a 1@5 charisma; but she's not going to fight an apology. His roll is 13+1=14, as close as he can get.
I'm raising Adam's Use Holy Symbol to 1@10 and adding a 1@7 SAL version for Geneice. She rolls 91 on the holy symbol skill, which is not going to work here. It appears that on Tuesday I wrote
Geneice rolls 23, saving me a lot of trouble on math and tricky questions, and her SAL combined with her 2@8 MSV means dangerous+DC=lethal damage, 5 intensities, on a target with a 2@ damage value means 2 effective, but she still has her rider, as soon asand left the sentence hanging, forgetting to add the part about getting the information on that.
The vampire I'm using has a 2@1 MSV, 2@8 Bod BRA, but no stated skill at weaponless fighting on the sheet I'm using; but it's clear that he is a fighter, so I'm plugging in a 2@3 Brawling skill for his basic attacks. That means his chance to hit here is 86 minus defensive values (assuming a 7@ bod bias); Geneice presents with her 2@5 TV and -48 custom armor (without the helmet here). That means the punch has 86-25-48=13% chance to hit for annoying+3DC=dangerous+10 damage. He rolls 29, a failed hit. Adam wanted a fight; I think he's got one.
Graeme rolls a 20 GE on the effect of the heated stone; that's just bad enough. I note as an incidental that I never copied the spell to Graeme's paper, which if I compile notes from various sources comes to
1@2 Create Heat M9@6 By any means possible, I draw an icon for fire on a red stone, then place or toss it and say "Aduro!"; the stone will heat to 2000 degrees. It will remain hot for RS/10 minutes. The stone is consumed by the heat. +172SMI could hardly think of a better demonstration that the laws of physics are unreliable here.
--M. J. Young
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