Crossing the Galaxy: John Cross' game continues

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Crossing the Galaxy: John Cross' game continues

(222 posts) (3 voices)

Started 3 years ago by M. J. Young
Latest reply from M. J. Young

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M. J. Young
Moderator

John Cross was having trouble posting in Cross Out a New World, John, so we have moved the game here.

Since his post did not take, I will await his response to my last post there in this thread.

--M. J. Young

Tue Sep 9 2008 6:26 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

MJ, you botched, you only charged me 1,000 credits for the glue grenades. I actually have 599 credits.

Buy the revolver. 357 caliber, 4 inch barrel, 6 shot, with a molded rubber grip if they have any. A Smith and Wesson 686 stainless model would be perfect.

Still at the sporting goods store buy:

at least 500 rounds extra ammo for the revolver plus two spare speed loaders

Three day supply non-perishable food, MREs and/or dehydrated ideal.

water purification tablets

Heavy dark colored bed sheet, treated with waterproofing agent, or comparable cloth

Roll of duct tape

knitting needles and yarn.

several of those packaged 1 use raincoats that come in the plastic pouches.

And a backpack large enough to hold everything listed in the notes.

NOTES

A weapon, small caliber handgun ideally. 38/357 Lady Smith revolver would be perfect.

extra ammo, 50 rounds loose plus two spare speed loaders/magazines

Knife

Ronco Pocket Fisherman

Leatherman multi-tool in the black nylon sheath

Three day supply non-perishable food, MREs and/or dehydrated ideal.

water bottle, at least 1 quart, full.

water purification tablets

Heavy dark colored bed sheet, treated with waterproofing agent.

1 pound (weight) of gold, silver, nickel, bronze and stainless steel, platinum if possible, possible currency Smallest pieces possible. No more than 1 oz, pence and shillings ideal.

1 of each kind of gem that you currently have. possible currency

15-20 feet high tensile cord. That plus the bed sheet could make a crude tent in a pinch.

basic first aid kit.

roll of duct tape (Hey, MacGyver carries it on him!!!)

waterproof the Pearl Harbor jumpsuits, carry 1 at all times.

knitting needles and yarn. I want to get good at that anyway. Might verse into an arctic wasteland and need to knit a sweater on the spot.

One of those packaged 1 use raincoats that come in the plastic pouches.

Wed Sep 10 2008 10:10 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Two posts

Is this thing working now?

Thu Sep 11 2008 1:11 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Thanks for catching that.

The Smith & Wesson .357 six-shot revolver with 4" barrel and rubber grip is a high-end revolver, 425c. It's 50c for 500 rounds .357 revolver ammo.

30c buys 3 days worth trail/adventure food. Water is required to prepare these, but some components are ready to eat particularly in the "lunch" packs.

A full-sized synthetic backpack with lightweight polymer frame can carry 240 pounds in a six cubic foot interior , 3'x2'x1', with a maximum enclosed diagonal (for an object running from opposite corners through the center of the pack) of 3'9". It weights 2 pounds and costs 25c.

This reduces your available funds by 530c to 69c.

When you ask for water purification tablets, they ask whether you want chlorine, iodine, keylo, omnimycin, latchleach, or antised, or how many of each you want.

They don't carry bed sheets at the sporting goods store. They do have a sort of plastic ground cloth, six and a half foot square, if that will do the trick. They also have space blankets, but these are silver on one side and bright orange on the other.

They've never heard of "duck tape", but ask what use it has as they might have something like it.

They don't carry knitting or craft supplies here.

Single-use ponchos come in a plastic box of thirty (sort of like facial tissues) for 50c. You might be able to find them singly at a convenience store.

--M. J. Young

Thu Sep 11 2008 2:28 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

When you ask for water purification tablets, they ask whether you want chlorine, iodine, keylo, omnimycin, latchleach, or antised, or how many of each you want.

I want the kind that are capable of purifying water against the largest amount of different kinds of things that water would need to be purified against.

They don't carry bed sheets at the sporting goods store. They do have a sort of plastic ground cloth, six and a half foot square, if that will do the trick.

What color are they? As long as it's opaque. I'll take one.

They've never heard of "duck tape", but ask what use it has as they might have something like it.

Is it duck or duct? I've heard it said both ways. MJ, you know what I'm asking for, do they have anything like it?

They don't carry knitting or craft supplies here.

Well, do you know where I could get that?

Single-use ponchos come in a plastic box of thirty (sort of like facial tissues) for 50c. You might be able to find them singly at a convenience store.

I'll take a box of them.

I know I probably don't have enough credits for all of this. Tell them to get everything ready for me, I'll be back shortly to pick it up.

Take what I do have, and find the shortest path to the nearest jewelery store. I need to sell another gem. I believe you said my next most valuable was worth 2,400.

NOTES:

Don't forget to reload all of your MAK and 9mm magazines ASAP

And MJ, in case you're wondering. I didn't post yesterday not because of the site problems, but because I was recovering from a nasty hangover. I must have slept 20 of the 24 hours yesterday. I love it when hangovers do that......

Thu Sep 11 2008 3:18 am #
WilliamTWodium
Member

John - I think it's 'duct,' officially. However, I am certain that both 'duck tape' and 'duct tape' are pronounced identically in standard usage (the /t/ in 'duct' gets deleted, so the IPA would be [d^ktejp] for both) and that the people you're talking to have never heard of either.

Thu Sep 11 2008 4:33 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator
Scott is right--it is "duct tape", because its intended function is sealing and securing air ducts (although someone has said it's not really very good for that). However, since no one says DUCT, TAPE, I assume you did not say Duct Tape either, but what would be heard as Duck Tape by anyone who had no idea what you were saying. Since in this century they do not tape ducts, they will never have heard of that for which you are asking.

And no, I will not assume that the characters in the store know what I know, and therefore understand you as I understand you. You will have to explain to them what it is you want in a way they can understand.

The shop assistant attempts to explain the various types of water purification tablets for you.
- Chlorine is a broad spectrum poison that kills most organic contaminants including algae; human digestive systems tolerate it easily, so there is not much danger of overdose. It also has a strong tendency to evaporate from the water after doing its job, so less of it gets into your system--but its protection deteriorates.
- Iodine is more effective against microorganisms and virii, but not so much against plant organics. It is also more toxic to humans, and its dose must be carefully measured. On the other hand, it tends to stay in the water longer, and so iodine treated water is less likely to become recontaminated after a few days.
- Keylo removes heavy metals and other non-organic contaminants from the water. It does this by latching to them and causing them to settle. This is your best product against lead, arsenic, gold, and other poisons. It does nothing against microorganisms.
- Omnimycin works against organics. Unlike chlorine and iodine, it is safe in larger doses. Although it does kill organics in the water, its primary function involves supporting immune response against these, getting your body to fight any microorganisms that remain in the water.
- Latchleach works like Keylo, linking to contaminants in the water and causing them to settle out. Its advantage is that it works equally well against both organic and inorganic compounds; its disadvantages are that it does not work as well against either as products specifically targeting those, and that overdose is a danger. If you consume too much unattached Latchleach, it will bind with nutrients in your digestive tract and get into your system, where it interferes with numerous physiological processes. Thus it is important to determine the actual level of contamination of the water before using it.
- Antised was developed in response to those who did not want impurities to settle to the bottom of their water. This targets both organic and inorganic impurities and encases them in microscopic coatings such that the impurities pass harmlessly through the system. Again, overdose is a danger, in this case because unbound Antised will bind with nutrients in your digestive tract and prevent you from absorbing these. Thus again careful water testing is important.
In short, there is no one "best" pill. It depends in part on what might be wrong with your water, and in part on how which problems you are willing to accept in trade.

When you ask where you can get craft supplies, you detect what might be a hint of sarcasm in the suggestion that you might try a craft supplies store.

Ground cloths are dark green.

You go to the nearest jewelry store, but this one does not buy loose gems. They refer you to that store a few miles away that does. Derek suggests taking the motivator, which is what people apparently call the elevator that goes all directions.

Which gems have you already sold?

--M. J. Young
Thu Sep 11 2008 8:30 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

So, I would describe duct tape to him. (Or do you want me to describe it to you?)

Chlorine is a broad spectrum poison that kills most organic contaminants including algae; human digestive systems tolerate it easily, so there is not much danger of overdose. It also has a strong tendency to evaporate from the water after doing its job, so less of it gets into your system--but its protection deteriorates.

Go with this one.

What are the biases of the grenades, and their exact capabilities?

I sold the red ruby. 8,000 credits

Fri Sep 12 2008 6:05 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator
So, I would describe duct tape to him. (Or do you want me to describe it to you?)

What, gray on one side and sticky on the other? Yes, I want you to describe it to him so that I know how you are describing it.

Chlorine is also the cheapest. You can get 50 pills for 10 credits; each is good for ten liters or two and a half gallons of reasonably clean water; up to triple dose can be used with little hazard.

What are the biases of the grenades, and their exact capabilities?

Good question. I'll get back to you on that after I've considered it. (Actually, the grenades do not have bias; the skill to use the grenades has bias. Frequently I group them all under 6@1 as explosive devices, but you've got some unusual ones here.)

I sold the red ruby. 8,000 credits

And that's sort of what I thought. It means two things:
1. The next most valuable gem in your collection is worth more than you've stated;
2. You are overlooking gems because they are separate from that collection.
--M. J. Young
Sat Sep 13 2008 1:35 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

MJ, I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds to say that when the verser teacher comes, the bad thing be delayed. Who knows? I might decide to interfere and help her. (Is it Lauren? I really liked her) I'd like to be at top form when that happens. So, if it's not too much trouble, delay bad thing happening for a while. At least let me get to 1@5 martial arts.........

What, gray on one side and sticky on the other? Yes, I want you to describe it to him so that I know how you are describing it.

Duct tape holds the world together. A great expert in the art of home repair, his name was Tim Allen, he said that "A real man's toolbox needs 2 things. Duct tape and WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, you use duct tape, if it doesn't move and it should, you use WD40." WD40 is a very sophisticated aerosol lubricant. Do you have anything like that, as well as duct tape?

Chlorine is also the cheapest. You can get 50 pills for 10 credits; each is good for ten liters or two and a half gallons of reasonably clean water; up to triple dose can be used with little hazard.

I'll take 100 of them. Also, I happen to know of a trick that you can do with chlorine tablets. When chlorine interacts with petroleum based fuels (gasoline, kerosene, etc) it ignites. (Oh the things you learn in chemistry class)

And that's sort of what I thought. It means two things:

1. The next most valuable gem in your collection is worth more than you've stated;
2. You are overlooking gems because they are separate from that collection.

And that forces me to assume that the next most valuable gem is the other ruby. Yeah, I had meant to take those out, as well as the diamond rings. I meant to say that last time, it slipped my mind. That makes sense. This society looks like it would employ a lot of laser technology. I know rubies can be used in that, if they are of good quality. So yeah, all gems and the diamond rings when I get to the jewelery store.

I'm also bringing all of my gold, silver, stainless steel and platinum to the jeweler with me.

Before I get to the jeweler, ask Derek to plot a course that takes me past a convenience type store. Get the equivalent of Ziploc baggies and permanent markers. (MJ, you want me to label my gems? OK!! I will!! (and yes, I think my character would think of this too))

NOTES:

Don't forget to ask the jeweler about making jewelery from your metals and gems. Hey man, they were growing on trees!!!!!!! Money is very easy to get as a verser dude!!! Increase the value of what you got for nothing.

Ursa "Why not increase his handicap? Since he cares about these 'earth people' so much, why not take his favorite?"

It's probably badly butchered, but does anyone know the movie?

Dude!!! You keep forgetting!!!!!!! Can they put the gold and silver tree leaves on one of your Pearl Harbor jumpsuits? You need to look rich? "Dude has gold and silver on his CLOTHES man!!!"

Can they cut the 10 pound gold block in half? Give them 5 pounds of gold, 10 pounds of silver (of 25 pounds) and 2 pounds of platinum.

Can they cut the other 5 pound half into smaller sections? Two ounces each?

5 pounds gold makes 40 two ounce ingots.

make 20 two ounce platinum ingots.

4 ounce crowns acceptable.

Perhaps have some silver melted into ingots too? 25 pounds..... 10 pounds into jewelery, 5 pounds into ingots, 10 pounds left as is?

Can they stamp the ingots ".999 gold, .999 platinum" etc?

Can they melt some of my stainless steel into ingots? Make jewelery with it?

I'm telling you man, you're going to land in a world where stainless steel is priceless!!!!!

Can they melt the platinum into ingots? It's a bunch of scrap, can they make it into 2 ounce ingots?

"You have complete creative license with my metals and gems. Make big necklaces, make small necklaces. Cut the gems into smaller pieces. Make bracelets, earrings, broaches, your will be done."

Can they dye one of the jumpsuits black? That would be the one you would want to carry with you. And dude, you keep forgetting, knit liners for it. That jumpsuit might be all you have if you land in an arctic wasteland.

Need at least 100 (probably more) baggies. Each gem in a labeled baggy. Gems in baggies put together into larger baggies showing approximate value.

Do they have any of those 50 caliber revolvers?????

Sat Sep 13 2008 5:59 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Yes, I think you probably are out of bounds to suggest what ought to happen in your future. Part of that is because of scenario, that certain things need to happen in a certain order with or without your knowledge, and part of that is chance, that general effects rolls will drive timing of most good and bad events even when they are slated to occur "sometime".

"It sounds like you want stringbond and omnisolv. You'll find them in most hardware stores."

I'm presently assuming that everything you say you will "take" you mean you will purchase when you return from the jeweler with more credits. I'm not recording them, because if somehow you get yourself killed (stranger things have happened) before you get back from the jeweler, I don't want to have to remove them from your sheet. Once you've got the credits, you can return to the store and list the things you are actually buying.

And your assumption is not correct. You somehow overlooked a gem whose value is greater than the one you cited, but is part of the batch you had valued. I have not addressed the value of the gems you did not get valued (although if you remember what you paid for them, that will help).

The convenience store has touchseal bags in sizes ranging from one inch square to one hundred gallons. Generally, the larger the bag, the fewer in a package, and the greater the cost. Bags of twenty gallons or more are sold singly. One inch square bags come in boxes of a hundred. Sandwich-sized bags come thirty in a box.

It will take many hours for a jeweler to identify and value each of your gems, and he will charge you for his time.

--M. J. Young

Sun Sep 14 2008 11:31 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

I'll get a box of the 1 inch bags. I have 69 credits left as of this writing.

And your assumption is not correct. You somehow overlooked a gem whose value is greater than the one you cited, but is part of the batch you had valued. I have not addressed the value of the gems you did not get valued (although if you remember what you paid for them, that will help).

Considering I got them off of trees and therefore got them for free, I don't see how that will help.

Ask the jeweler about turning 5 pounds of my 10 pound gold block, 10 pounds of my silver and 2 pounds of platinum into jewelery. Also, can he melt some of it into 2 ounce ingots? What I would want is 5 pounds of gold, 5 pounds of silver, and the remaining platinum into 2 ounce ingots, as described in the notes in my above post.

"You have complete creative license with my metals and gems. Make big necklaces, make small necklaces. Cut the gems into smaller pieces. Make bracelets, earrings, broaches, your will be done."

And of course, identify all of the gems and put them into labeled bags with the value of each. I'll wait.

Mon Sep 15 2008 9:53 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator
Your equipment sheet lists:
I have no reason to think that that ruby or that emerald were part of the gems you acquired in the forest; you got them from a dealer of some sort in the city somewhere. Because they are separate from the gems from the trees, they haven't been put into the same valuation categories as those (i.e., these gems are described with size and weight, the others strictly by type and value). I do not know yet whether these two gems might be worth more or less than the ones you found (I am inclined to think that they are not worth as much as the most valuable of those, but still worth quite a bit), and will make that determination based on what you paid for them, probably.

At the same time, I know that one way or another you overlooked one of the gems in the other batch.

You buy 100 touch seal bags one inch square, and take them to the jeweler.

He will charge you one hundred credits for his time identifying, valuing, and labeling all of these stones. If you are including the other emerald and ruby, please backtrack the other thread to find the post where you acquired them, or else wait for me to have time to do so.

What are you willing to pay him for turning your metal into jewelry, and do you wish to include set gems in the work? He will also charge you for melting metal into ingots, but suggests that you can get a scrap dealer to do that kind of work more cheaply.

I will assume that you are willing to pay the one hundred credits to get the values of the gems. Here they are, now each in its own labeled baggie:
You owe the man 100 credits. He'll pay the same percentage for your gems as before.

--M. J. Young
Tue Sep 16 2008 7:19 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

I had 69 credits when I started. As far as the other ruby and emerald, I traded 2 of my diamond rings that cost $200 for them back in Dancing Princess. (Of course, I also traded a third for 10 pounds silver and the 10 pound gold block) I'd like the other two stones valued as well.

How much did the baggies cost?

As far as the one I was overlooking, no big deal there. I just forgot.

What are you willing to pay him for turning your metal into jewelry, and do you wish to include set gems in the work? He will also charge you for melting metal into ingots, but suggests that you can get a scrap dealer to do that kind of work more cheaply.

I also have 2 KG (4.4 pounds) of platinum scrap. You missed that in the list of metals. The tree leaves I am keeping as is. I have a feeling those will be more valuable later if I leave them the way they are.

"As far as I'm concerned here, money is no object. Do whatever you need to do, however you need to do it. Melt 5 pounds of silver into 2 ounce ingots, (so 40 ingots) and turn 5 pounds into jewelery. Melt 5 pounds of the gold into 2 ounce ingots, (again, 40 ingots) and turn the other 5 pounds into jewelery. The platinum weighs 70.4 ounces. Give me 20 platinum ingots, (total 40 ounces) and turn the remaining 30.4 ounces into jewelery. You have complete creative control over this. Do whatever you want, however you want to do it. I'm leaving all of the gems with you. Cut the gems, make whatever kind of jewelery you want to make. Can you stamp them "pure gold, pure silver, pure platinum"? Again, money is no object. Oh and not that I don't trust you, but I assume that you're going to give me a receipt for everything I am leaving in your care?"

As far as how I am paying for this, sell the most valuable gems that would give me the credits to pay for everything I bought at the sporting goods store, enough to pay the jeweler, and leave myself with at least 3,000 credits in my account. Your call which gems, as I don't know how much everything will cost.

As of this writing, I have 4 cents in my checking account. Too bad money isn't this easy to come by in real life, ya know?

Tue Sep 16 2008 6:13 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

The emerald is worth 3000c; the ruby is worth 10000c.

The touch-seal bags cost 10c per hundred.

I was not attempting to list all your valuables, but simply copying a slice of your equipment sheet; thus I did not "miss" the platinum scrap, as it was not under discussion--it was only an effort to point to the gems by showing where they appear on the sheet, which gives a clue as to when you added them.

The jeweler is not happy with your suggestion. The problem is, you want him to turn five pounds of silver, five pounds of gold, thirty pounds of platinum, and however many of your nearly one hundred gemstones he wishes into jewelry, turn the rest of the metal into ingots, and then charge you for the work on the jewelry. He could turn out forty pounds of jewelry that was barely worth the metal content and charge you a couple hundred credits, or he could put the sort of detailed craftsmanship into it that would give you truly rare and unique jewelry and a bill for several hundred thousand credits. You are going to have to be much more specific, either about what it is you want or about what you want to pay, but preferably both. It would also help if you say whether you want it personalized (mongrams, family emblems, membership or association seals) or impersonal, whether there is a particular style you prefer, whether you want jewelry you would wear yourself or jewelry for someone else such as a woman, whether you want to wear it all at once (which for example limits the number of rings) or selectively (which suggests more variety from which to choose). You've given him insufficient information.

As far as how much everything will cost, if you don't know, you can't decide which gems to sell. You were shopping and prices were stated; only you can decide how much to spend on the jewelry, within the parameters given. You have to choose which gems to sell.

--M. J. Young

Wed Sep 17 2008 5:00 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

59 credits

That was thirty OUNCES of platinum, not thirty pounds.

OK, forget the jewelery. Melt the 10 pound gold block into 80 two ounce ingots. Melt the platinum into 35 two ounce ingots. Can he stamp them "pure gold" "pure platinum"?

That ruby is worth 10,000 credits? Wow, considering I traded it for a $200 ring, I'd say I made a major up trade. Sell the ruby.

Does he have any more of those cheap $200 diamond/ruby/emerald/any other stone rings? Those things seem to be pretty useful.

How long did all of that take, and what was Derek doing in the midst of it all?

Wed Sep 17 2008 6:13 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Derek plays with the computer screens in the hall when you're occupied.

If you ask a jeweler to make ingots for you, they're jewelry-quality ingots. They will be stamped, as desired. The gold ones will cost twenty credits apiece, and the platinum ones (because of the considerably higher melting point and lower maleability) thirty credits apiece, for the workmanship.

You didn't buy rings like that here, I think--you bought them in another world. Here, diamond rings start around 800c, and ones that look like your $200 ones are near 1200c. Emerald rings are a little more and ruby rings are a lot more.

He gives 80% of value on gems, so that's 8000c for the sale of the ruby, as it was with the other.

--M. J. Young

Thu Sep 18 2008 4:15 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

8,059 credits

2,650 for the jeweler work

5,409 left

Go ahead and do it. How long will that take?

Thu Sep 18 2008 5:32 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Using their equipment, the gold will take about sixteen working hours (five per hour) and the platinum a bit more (maybe two per hour), and they've got to work around other jobs currently in progress or promised to other customers, so figure it will take about four days. Yes, they will each be marked and the jeweler's certification will be included. Final purification will be handled as part of the process.

--M. J. Young

Fri Sep 19 2008 1:27 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

5,309 credits actually. (I forgot to mark down the 100 for getting the gems valued)

"Thanks, I'll be back in 4 days to get that."

Back to the sporting goods store and get everything else that I said. I'll check now.

# Ruger P-89 9mm pistols, or comparable handguns are a special order item, but they can get them in three days, 350c each.
# 9mm ammo, also special order, 10c per hundred rounds.
# 7.62x39 ammo is in stock, same price.
# kinds of magazines, keep mostly 30 and 50 shot versions, but do have a couple of 100s in stock, 200s available special order. 10c for a 30, 15c for 50, 25c for 100, 35c for 200, plus cost of bullets.
# shotgun, something like the Mossberg Persuader, 12+1 shot capacity, 20 inch barrel, pump action 12 gauge, 900c. Also has an Edison Street Sweeper, 8 gauge 8+1 shot 19" barrel pump action, 750c.
# small frame revolvers 38/357 caliber, 5-6 shot, 2-4 inch barrel, several varieties starting 150c running to 500c depending on features and quality.
# Target quarrels for crossbows are 10c per dozen; hunting quarrels are 15c per dozen. Your old quarrels should work fine. They can get a variety of special purpose quarrels, including grappling hooks. Most of them run from 5 to 15c apiece, but the grapple system is 200c and comes with two grapples, lines, and the adapter system for use.

Since the crossbow is 1200c, it looks like you do not at the moment have enough for the grenades and the crossbow. Intention?

Get the crossbow, 1,200 credits. Get the water tabs, 100 pills for 20 credits

What time is it? You said it would take hours at the jeweler. You said 16 hours before I go back to work, how many hours do I have now?

After that, get Derek and go back to the hotel room. (300 credits for tonight) and crash out. Enjoy my last night in the spiffy place, and then when I get up, move to the 70 credit a night room.

Also, I've kind of lost track of the equipment I've gotten here. Can you post a list of everything I've gotten in this world so far?

Fri Sep 19 2008 2:10 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

I am confused. You've listed a lot of stuff you didn't buy, and then said you were buying the crossbow and the water purification tabs (if memory serves, you want the chlorine tabs).

As a rule, no, I cannot promise that I will keep track of equipment recently acquired; I tend to do updates when you verse out, so that I'm not adding stuff you aren't keeping. However, later I will post your current equipment sheet as it reads on my sheet, behind the screens.

--M. J. Young

Fri Sep 19 2008 11:28 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Get the crossbow, 1,200 credits. Get the water tabs, 100 pills for 20 credits

What time is it? You said it would take hours at the jeweler. You said 16 hours before I go back to work, how many hours do I have now?

After that, get Derek and go back to the hotel room. (300 credits for tonight) and crash out. Enjoy my last night in the spiffy place, and then when I get up, move to the 70 credit a night room.

I'm just buying the crossbow and the water tabs. Not sure why I posted the whole list, just seemed like the right thing to do at the time.

Sun Sep 21 2008 4:46 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Done.

You burned up about five hours on all this, so you have eleven left before reporting to your new job.

Derek wants to know what he should do while you're working. The doors don't recognize him as an authorized resident. He could hack them, of course, but it seems like a lot of trouble to go through every time he wants to return to the room.

--M. J. Young

Sun Sep 21 2008 8:50 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

"Well Derek, you could just stay in the room and not go anywhere. There's a minibar in there, and you could order room service and have it billed to me. There's a TV and all the amenities. That's what I would do."

Speaking of the room, I think I'm going to go back and crash out.

Mon Sep 22 2008 6:51 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

"No, can't order anything without using the system, and that means I'd have to hack myself an identity. I can watch the screen, but it's so much more interesting to explore how their system works. Maybe, though, I should think about creating that identity. That could be fun."

--M. J. Young

Mon Sep 22 2008 11:26 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

5,309-1,200 crossbow-20 water tabs-300 last night in room 3,789 credits left

"Well Derek, you do whatever you think is the best thing to do. You've been in the Multiverse a lot longer than I have."

Describe the crossbow. What are the biases on it?

"Hey Derek. I don't know how well you know the biases, but in Pearl Harbor I found out the EXTREMELY hard way what can happen if the biases aren't high enough to support what you need to do. Therefore, I would highly recommend that you get some weapons that are of lower bias. I've got this oak and steel crossbow that I would be willing to trade you, if you have anything I'd consider trading."

When we get back to the hotel room, load the .357 and all of the MAK 90 and 9mm magazines, and set up my Verser's Survival Pack.

All the MAK 90 magazines loaded leaves me with 803 rounds not loaded.

All the 9mm magazines loaded leaves me 1,239 rounds not loaded. (Well, once I get that 1,000 rounds 9mm, that is)

Inside that backpack I just bought, put the following:

Kabar knife
Straight razor
Ronco pocket fisherman
S/W .357 magnum, loaded
200 rounds .357 ammo
1 Pearl Harbor jumpsuit
100 chlorine tabs
2 quart canteen
three days food
10 four ounce silver crowns
20 two ounce gold pieces (when the jeweler is finished with them)
20 two ounce platinum pieces (when the jeweler is finished with them)
32 1/2 oz shillings (nickel)
32 1/2 oz pence (bronze)
5 BIC cigarette lighters (one sealed pack)
2 glue grenades
2 fragmentation grenades
The plastic ground tarp that I bought. I didn't see it on your list.

I need to check on some things, because I'm not sure about some things. There will be more I put in there.

Wed Sep 24 2008 1:36 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

The use of a crossbow is a T4@1 skill (because it uses ratchet technology). The design and the materials might have higher biases, but these do not impact the use. Although no one from the middle ages could have imagined a crossbow like yours, any soldier from that time would understand how to operate it.

"O.K. I think I might consider hacking myself an identity. Do you care if I do it in the hotel room, or would you rather I use another terminal so it can't be traced back to you if I botch?"

"Yeah, Lauren talked a lot about bias. Hasn't been a problem yet, but then, I haven't been in a world where I had to hack a computer that didn't have computers, if you catch my meaning. Anyway, I'm pretty deadly a butcher knife and a frying pan. I don't really have much I'm willing to give up, unless you're interested in video games."

--M. J. Young

Thu Sep 25 2008 4:58 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

"Yeah, Lauren talked a lot about bias. Hasn't been a problem yet, but then, I haven't been in a world where I had to hack a computer that didn't have computers, if you catch my meaning."

"No, I don't catch your meaning."

"O.K. I think I might consider hacking myself an identity. Do you care if I do it in the hotel room, or would you rather I use another terminal so it can't be traced back to you if I botch?"

"Use a public terminal if you would. I'd rather not get arrested here. After the last time I got arrested, I swore that whoever tried it the next time would die, and I really don't feel like doing that."

"As far as the crossbow, if you want it, I'm sure we can work out a trade for something. I kind of want to drop some of this equipment. There must be some kind of restrictions of weight or something (my character wouldn't know) because I lost a great deal of my stuff. I've been to 4 worlds, and I haven't needed most of what I brought. I want to streamline it."

After that, go back to the hotel room, and sack out and get ready for work. If anyone asks, Derek is my little brother.

And describe the crossbow that I just bought. I'm sure it's a lot more advanced and a lot more powerful than the one that Mr. Smith and I built. Tell me about it.

Thu Sep 25 2008 1:52 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

"I mean," he says, "that if the bias isn't high enough for me to hack a computer, there won't be computers to hack."

"Oh, I don't think I could do it at a public terminal. I'll probably break into an empty storefront or apartment. The public terminals won't have the level of access I'll need, and anyway I'll probably have to wire in some of my hardware to get past the security levels to create an identity. But I can manage it, somewhere. And I'm not too worried about being arrested."

"Four worlds? Well, you're not that far behind me. I've been to, let's see, the place with the orange grass, the mansion with the killer named Montressa, the haunted house, the castle in the swamp with the vampire, the summer camp with the serial killer, and the post-war world with all the mutants--that makes this number eight not including home. Were you counting home? Anyway, I spent about twenty years in that last one, maybe half of that with Lauren, but before that my record was about a day. And yeah, Lauren says that the amount of stuff you can take increases every time you verse out--that's what she calls traveling from universe to universe, versing. But then, she's got that wagon of hers, and she's pretty strong. I can barely fit all my stuff in the bike baskets and the backpacks. I wouldn't want to take more than I can carry."

The principles of the crossbow are pretty much the same. It's a bottom lever action drawstring and a simple mechanical trigger mechanism to release the string. The frame is a lightweight material, something like plastic but extremely hard and not at all flexible. The bow is obviously a different material, flexible, only about twelve inches across but with tremendous draw power when pulled back. Quarrels sit in the track in a drop-in loading system, and there are clips along the right side to hold five quarrels for ready access, point down, fletching up. There is a flip-up cross-hair a pin sighting system that is calibrated for range and gravity. The drawstring seems to be a synthetic spider web.

--M. J. Young

Fri Sep 26 2008 3:37 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

"I mean," he says, "that if the bias isn't high enough for me to hack a computer, there won't be computers to hack."

"Don't be so sure about that Derek. I have a feeling that versers are, to some degree, above the bias. I could do limited psionics in my last two worlds, and even here, but there was no evidence of psionics among the indigs. I've seen no evidence of religion here, However, God answered a few prayers for me. Speaking of which......" (continued below)

"Oh, I don't think I could do it at a public terminal. I'll probably break into an empty storefront or apartment. The public terminals won't have the level of access I'll need, and anyway I'll probably have to wire in some of my hardware to get past the security levels to create an identity. But I can manage it, somewhere. And I'm not too worried about being arrested."

"....Speaking of which, one of the prayers that God answered for me was to unlock a door. Let's see if we (God and I) can do that again."

Try to find an abandoned/empty/secluded store

Walking and talking (yes, I can do both at the same time)

"As far as being arrested, you look like a 12 year old kid. I don't. You're more likely to get away with it. I wasn't counting home. In my first world, I met The Architect. He taught me some psionics. There were huge mutant insects all over the place. I spent about 6 months there. Then I landed right smack in the middle of Pearl Harbor. I spent about 2 or 3 years in 1941 earth. That's where I got arrested. I'm standing there holding 2 guns, and I let myself get arrested. How stupid was I? I swore I'm never giving up my guns for anyone again, I don't care who they are. I'm immortal, they're not. If they want a gunfight, by God that's what they're going to get. Then I landed in a medieval world. I learned to blacksmith there. The blacksmith wanted me to marry one of his daughters. He thought I was some kind of nobleman. The daughter was really cute, but I just couldn't do that. Bring her into the verse with me? Nah. Spent 2 years there. Then an angel of God came to me and told me that demons were taking over the castle. A priest showed up, we went and took them on. Demon magic was no match for bullets, that's for damn sure. This is my fourth world. I got here the day before you did."

At the sporting good store, they offered me 100 credits for my oak crossbow. Modern arrows are 12 for 10 credits. I'd like to "trade" my crossbow for 120 arrows. What would they give me for the wooden arrows and metal arrows? I need to drop those metal arrows. Those were OK when I had a steel string on the crossbow, I'm not using those with the spider silk string.

And of course, trade means go through the computer, now and in all future usages.

So what do I put down for the crossbow? 4@1 Lever and latch synthetic crossbow? What should I put down on my sheet? Also, does the crossbow fold up? I've seen crossbows that did that. The bow folded in half and the stock collapsed so that you could put it inside a backpack. I would have bought one like that if they were available.

NOTES:

1 tool box, red painted steel sheet metal, containing complete ratchet set, 2 ratchets, 12 screwdrivers, 2 pair of regular pliers, 2 pairs needle-nose pliers, 1 pair vice grips, 1 soldering iron, 1 solder removal tool, 1 roll of solder, 2 pairs wire cutters, 2 crescent wrenches, 1 hatchet, 1 claw hammer, 1 box of 3 inch nails, 2 rolls duct tape, 1 utility knife with 4 changeable razor blades, leather work gloves, a complete set of Allen wrenches, 2-AA battery flashlight, voltmeter, wood saw, multi-tipped screwdriver, complete set of wrenches. weight, approximately 25 pounds.

Keep Tool box, 2 largest screwdrivers, 1 pair pliers, vice grips, soldering iron, solder removal tool. Roll of solder, 1 wire cutter, 2 crescent wrenches, hatchet, claw hammer, nails, duct tape (guess I had it after all) utility knife, gloves, flashlight, voltmeter, saw, multi-tipped screwdriver.

Disown everything else. That should drop the weight by 15 pounds, easily.

Fri Sep 26 2008 6:21 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

"I meant, I've never had to test my computer hacking skills in a world that didn't have--never mind."

Derek says that an empty apartment is better than an empty store; there's more security on a commercial terminal than on a residential terminal--it's expected that guests will use residential terminals, but that unauthorized use of commercial terminals will be limited to paying and browsing products and getting directions. If he's breaking in somewhere anyway, an apartment would be his choice. Now, if you want to open the door for him, he's cool with that, as long as you're pretty confident about disarming security and such.

You sell the old crossbow and buy 120 Crossbow Bolts, hunter heads, polymer shank and fletching.

The sporting goods store says they really don't get much interest in antique arrows, but they're willing to give you one credit per ten arrows if you really want to dump them. They're probably worth something as scrap.

The synthetic spider silk is stronger than steel, pound for pound, although it is not as heavy for the diameter; it should be able to handle anything you want to do with it.

Technically, equipment does not have bias. The skill to operate the equipment has bias, and the skills to design, build, modify, repair, and sabotage equipment has bias. In rare cases, equipment itself performs skills which have bias--magic devices, for example, require skill to operate and then themselves cast spells, performing skills; artificially intelligent machines similarly perform skills, as do symbionts and linkers, and undoubtedly there are similar circumstances in connection with psionics. But your crossbow does not have a bias listing as equipment; it uses the same skill you used for the other crossbow.

And yes, I like your notion of the collapsing crossbow. In this case, the bow twists ninety degrees, folds down, and slides parallel beneath the stock, making the entirey device twenty-seven inches long, three inches at the widest point, and five inches top to bottom.

--M. J. Young

Fri Sep 26 2008 11:46 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

"I meant, I've never had to test my computer hacking skills in a world that didn't have--never mind."

"I know exactly what you meant Derek. Why would you hack a computer if there are no computers to hack?"

MJ, you're forgetting that I'm not talking to MJ Young, I'm talking to another verser. Maybe Derek hasn't yet figured out the notion that versers are not as limited by biases, and I'm trying to help him understand it, the same way The Architect helped us understand. I was trying to start a conversation about biases with him. Maybe learn a little of what he knows, and teach him what I've learned

Sell the 150 wooden arrows for 15 credits, and throw the 20 metal arrows in the nearest garbage can.

And MJ, you still haven't told me what to put down for the crossbow. What should I mark on my sheet for the new crossbow that I just bought? How much does it weigh? What's the draw pull? What's the ranges on it? What do I put down for it? I think you're getting senile my friend.

After that, see if we can find an acceptable spot for Derek to do his hacking. If it's a locked door, then pray my unlock door prayer. (I seem to have neglected to mark it down on my sheet, so I hope it's on your sheet MJ.)

If the door opens, I think I've changed my mind about hacking myself extra credits. If Derek thinks he can make me a millionaire, have at it.

Whilst Derek is hacking, I'm going to have my 9mm, the 357 and the crossbow at the ready, in case any authority figures try to step in.

Sat Sep 27 2008 12:03 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

I guess I'm just having trouble figuring out what you want to know. My sheet reads

High-tech (Terranova) Crossbow, It's a bottom lever action drawstring and a simple mechanical trigger mechanism to release the string. The frame is a lightweight material, something like plastic but extremely hard and not at all flexible. The bow is obviously a different material, flexible, only about twelve inches across but with tremendous draw power when pulled back. Quarrels sit in the track in a drop-in loading system, and there are clips along the right side to hold five quarrels for ready access, point down, fletching up. There is a flip-up cross-hair a pin sighting system that is calibrated for range and gravity. The drawstring seems to be a synthetic spider web. The bow twists ninety degrees, folds down, and slides parallel beneath the stock, making the entirey device twenty-seven inches long, three inches at the widest point, and five inches top to bottom.
I will undoubtedly put more on that (such as ranges and fire rate) when I need to, but for the moment that's all I included.

As to the unlock spell, I believe it goes

1@1 Release Lock M+3@4 kneel with hands folded and pray "God, give me the means to retrieve my belongings. Whatever way you, in your infinite wisdom, believe to be the safest and easiest way to do so. Be it providing me with a key to the door, or by dissolving the wall so that I can pass through it. However would be the easiest, safest way for me to retrieve my belongings, that is what I would like for you to do for me." causes door to unlock so as to open easily, provided that caster owns objects on the other side of the door, +84SM
I don't think that works for your current situation, so you may need a more general unlock spell. (It is probably the case that the bonus on this particular spell involved the fact that you had equipment on the other side of the door, which was key to the verbal component.)

Sheet has been noted that you sold the wooden quarrels and trashed the metal ones.

While you're considering how to open the door, the conversation continues.

"A million all at once would be a bad plan; the system is bound to notice that big a fluctuation in the currency. What would work better is to cut you a weekly paycheck, maybe a thousand a week or something, that comes from nowhere. The inflation in the system would be minimal, and if they realize that the money supply is growing faster than they can account by income it will still take them a long time to track the problem.

"Oh, this is going to take me several hours. You probably should just lock me in and leave for work. We certainly can find each other if we get separated; but don't risk anything for me--I'm pretty resourceful, you know."

--M. J. Young

Mon Sep 29 2008 1:32 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

1@1 Release Lock M+3@4 kneel with hands folded and pray "God, give me the means to retrieve my belongings. Whatever way you, in your infinite wisdom, believe to be the safest and easiest way to do so. Be it providing me with a key to the door, or by dissolving the wall so that I can pass through it. However would be the easiest, safest way for me to retrieve my belongings, that is what I would like for you to do for me." causes door to unlock so as to open easily, provided that caster owns objects on the other side of the door, +84SM

Well, I like that +84SM, and if the requirement to use it is that I own something on the other side of the door, then I'm going to cheat. Take out my deck of playing cards, and slide them one at a time underneath the door. I now own something on the other side of the door, and the spell will now work.

After that, bid Derek farewell, and head back to the hotel room. Give Derek the name of the hotel and the room number, and he can join me at his leisure. Crash out.

"Oh and Derek, free advice. If you don't feel like versing out from multiple gunshot wounds, try very hard not to wake me up when you come in. I just know how I would react to an intruder. I might not recognize it as you."

Mon Sep 29 2008 9:23 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Sorry, John--the closed doors apparently are designed to seal "air tight". Probably they're not so secure that they would work as outer hull doors, but if there were a breach evacuating the air from the hallways these would certainly delay the decompression of the room beyond (or conversely, if the breach were on the other side, they would prevent the rapid decompression of the hall). That means you can't fit a playing card through the "cracks", because you can't even force much air through the cracks given total decompression on one side.

It was a good idea, but it's not going to work that way. Have you another idea?

Derek thanks you for the warning. You've got separate bedrooms off the main room at the moment, so that shouldn't be a problem--but he says he'll bear it in mind if you wind up sharing a single-room dwelling.

--M. J. Young

Tue Sep 30 2008 4:34 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

I was afraid of that.

Drop to my knees and pray "Please God don't let me botch" Pray for 5 minutes

Then go non-corporeal and walk through the door. Does Derek know how to do that?

Tue Sep 30 2008 2:56 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Drop to my knees and pray "Please God don't let me botch" Pray for 5 minutes
I'm seeing this as a new skill, not something you have done before. I see a five minute time factor, total body involvement, and "appropriate" words. What I am not seeing is any detail concerning what this skill actually does. Oh, I know what it says it does, but I want to know your expectations. For example, you're using it before attempting a psionic skill (not a magic one); does it apply only to psionic skills? Only to psionic body control skills? Or would it work for absolutely any skill at all? Does it increase your chance of success, or merely reduce your chance to botch? Would you expect this to make botching impossible, even if you were attempting something that has a 100% chance to botch? Would you expect this to overrule your specific choices and decisions if they were bad, such as if you had decided to fire your gun at a barrel thinking it contained water when it actually contained gasoline (and a success would be bad outcome, that you botched even though it's not a "botch" technically--remember, you cannot use the word "botch" in a technical sense, because your character does not know that there are rules or dice or probabilities of success in that sense, so you can only use it to mean "mistake or severe failure")?

In short, what does this spell do, and under what circumstances?

--M. J. Young

Wed Oct 1 2008 12:41 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

For example, you're using it before attempting a psionic skill (not a magic one); does it apply only to psionic skills? Only to psionic body control skills? Or would it work for absolutely any skill at all?

All psionic and magic skills. Those are the REALLY dangerous botches.

Does it increase your chance of success, or merely reduce your chance to botch? Would you expect this to make botching impossible, even if you were attempting something that has a 100% chance to botch?

Eliminate the chance to botch on psionic and magic skills, so that a botch would just be a failure. No matter what the chance to botch is. Reduce botches to failures.

Would you expect this to overrule your specific choices and decisions if they were bad, such as if you had decided to fire your gun at a barrel thinking it contained water when it actually contained gasoline (and a success would be bad outcome, that you botched even though it's not a "botch" technically

Contrary to popular belief, a normal bullet fired at a normal container of gasoline will not cause an explosion. You shoot a gas tank, you put a hole in the gas tank, that's it. Unless you're shooting tracer bullets that burn, or otherwise create a spark, you won't blow up the container of gasoline. Or would you expect that a piece of copper jacketed lead would cause an explosion if you were using a knife of that construction to put a hole in the same container? As stated above, this applies only to psionic and magic skills, and reduces botches to mere failures.

Wed Oct 1 2008 1:21 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

You objected to the example but ignored the question. Let me try another example: what if you decided to open a door, not knowing that it led into open space or underwater? Some would say you botched. Let us assume that in this world the best way to open doors is by magic or psionics, and the skill roll itself was successful. Since the skill roll is a mechanic, it cannot be referenced as part of the prayer--it does not exist from the character's perspective--and thus it is as much a "botch" if you succeed in opening a door that leads to certain death as if you fail horribly to do so.

Part of what I am getting at here is, how are you going to define "botch", given that you cannot use the technical game mechanic meaning of the word? "Catastrophic failure"? What if you leap from a building and "merely fail" to make your psionic flight work? Is that a botch, because it is a failure that is catastrophic when you hit the pavement, or is there some way that your prayer itself distinguishes failures into categories?

Remember, a "botch" is nothing more than a failure with really bad consequences; whether there are really bad consequences to any other failure depends on what you are attempting and under what circumstances.

I don't think you can phrase a prayer that will accomplish what you want, but I'm listening.

--M. J. Young

Wed Oct 1 2008 11:55 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

OK MJ, I get it now. What I am saying is that in this world, if my math is correct, I have a 33% chance of going non-corporeal. That means that rolls of 95, 96, 97, 98, 99 and 100 are botches. With this prayer, those rolls are now failures. That's it and that's all. If I jump off of a building and my psionic flight fails and I splatter onto the ground, that means that I verse out. I can live with that. If my psionic flight botches I can cause an explosion that will wipe out 80% of the world. I can't live with that. If my non-corporeality fails, it means that I walk face-first into the door and possibly break my nose. I can live with that. If my non-corporeality botches I could open up a hole in the floor that will kill every living thing in TerraNova. I can't live with that. A failure with catastrophic consequences will most likely only endanger myself. A botch with catastrophic consequences can potentially destroy all life as I know it. I DON'T want that!!! Do we understand each other now?

If I have a 100% chance to botch, I would now have a 100% chance to fail. A failure I can live with. A botch I cannot live with. Botches are the single greatest cause of death for versers and those around them. Why that was written into the game in the first place is beyond me, but I don't want them. If the roll was a botch, the roll is now a failure. Botches are failures, that's it and that's all.

So, that means that when I roll a 100 and you create the botch list, roll botch "explosion" and then roll the GE roll and it comes up 30 which wipes out all life in the universe, now, instead of doing all of that, you would simply say "You failed" It would make your job easier in the long run anyway.

I can just see it..... I'm going to roll a botch on a spell that eliminates botches, aren't I? That would be poetic justice, in a sick, twisted sort of way......

Thu Oct 2 2008 12:10 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

And to add your comments from Behind the Screens:

MJ, without knowing the game mechanics, there's no way my character could design a prayer that would eliminate botches. However, my character has seen some very crazy things happen as a result of things not working right. He wants to eliminate those crazy things. You're expecting me to design a prayer that would say this without using the game mechanics. My character is talking to God. God would know what I mean. You and the dice are God in this case. So, if you understand what it is that I mean, why must I design the prayer that says that? I mean you don't need to understand how or why gravity works to drop a brick on someone's head, ya know?
I'm sure that God knows what you want. I am not certain that you know exactly what it is you want, and I certainly do not know what it is with sufficient clarity to design a spell that would do that. From the words that you prayed, I would simply give you a bonus on the chance of success, which reduces your chance to fail and thus your chance to botch. You have stated that this is not what you expect or want, but you cannot describe in words that do not demand interpretation of game mechanics exactly what it is you want.

To clarify, let us shift away from the fact that you are using it for a psionic skill and address the fact that you wish to use it for a magic skill. You would undoubtedly say that a prayer for a supernatural outcome is not "magic" but "miracle"; Harry would agree with me that this is semantics, and I would further insist that the operation of magic without prayer is as much "miracle" in that sense. But let us accept that as you attempt to walk on water, you are asking for a miracle.

Miracles--there is a wonderful movie of that name (Tom Conti, Terri Garr, Paul Rodriguez, and Christopher Lloyd) which is on my short list of must-see movies for understanding the subject. In the opening scene, somewhere in the jungles of Mexico the daughter of a tribal chieftain is dying. The priest/medicine man cannot help her. The chief stakes him to a mountainside, angry at God for the illness of his daughter. From that place, the medicine man prays, loudly shouting to the Great Spirit, that he needs help, and hopes that help will come. It rains. The medicine man shouts, "Not rain! I need a real medicine man!"

Now here's the point: you're asking for a miracle. What if you get the wrong miracle? What if you want water from the rock, but you get fire from heaven? What if you want destruction but you bring healing? That's often what a botch is in magic, or in psionics: the wrong thing happened. Efforts are made by the referee to make "the wrong thing" somehow related to "the right thing"; but the release of incomprehensible power into the universe ultimately can do anything--whether it comes from heaven or hell or from your own spirit.

You will object that God could not possibly make a mistake. I agree--but you certainly can. Not only can you make a mistake, God's other servants can make mistakes as well. Do you think every saint and every angel is as perfectly competent as God? If God sends His minions to aid you, can they not misunderstand and get it wrong? Or is it not possible that for reasons completely unknown to you, you are trying to do something that is completely contrary to what God wishes in this situation? You certainly can botch, even in prayer.

You may still object that God would not allow that--and that is covered, in part by the fact that when you are doing holy magic (praying to God) you are bonused by your own "faith"--your religion score, which increases your chance of success and thus reduces your chance to botch. You are also protected in part by the referee's instruction to soften the results of botches when they are holy magic--not to eliminate them, but to be mindful that someone else is involved in the control of the power.

Why did we include botches in the rules, when they can be so devastating? We did it because we wanted them to be devastating. We wanted the player to stop and consider that using powerful magic in a non-magical world was risky, just as using powerful technology in a low-tech world was risky. It had to be more than that it might not work; it had to be that it might go very badly. It might go very badly even in a world that strongly supports such things, if you're the Sorcerer's Apprentice trying to use magic you do not know well, or the basement tinkerer building his own atomic bomb. The rules urge caution, because anyone who is dabbling in anything at which he is not completely capable is taking a risk.

If you still insist that you ought to be able effectively to pray that nothing outrageously terrible would happen when you dabble ignorantly in powers that are outrageously dangerous, I would make two final points. First, my observations of reality suggest that such prayers frequently avail nothing. Second, if you could eliminate risk from the game, it would no longer be fun.

Figure out what you really expect here.

--M. J. Young

Thu Oct 2 2008 9:37 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Am I STILL not clear here? All I want is for the prayer to change botch dice rolls into failed dice rolls. What is unclear about that? If you rolled a botch, it is no longer a botch, but is now a failure. What's the sticking point?

Derek (controlled by you, I might add) made a reference to botching in his computer hacking attempt. So, obviously, the term "botch" is known to versers. They might not understand game mechanics, but they understand what botches are. In my last world, I prayed for a woman to be healed. Instead, I got a huge explosion. That was not a miracle healing, now was it? So, my character would call that a botch, if he knew that term. My character knows that bad things can and do happen when he plays with these kinds of things. He doesn't want that to happen anymore. My character wouldn't know how to say it in non game mechanics terms, but I know what the effect is that he is looking for. The effect he is looking for is for dice rolls that come up botches to not be botches, but to be failures instead. Let me say that again, the effect is that botch dice rolls are failures instead. Do you understand that? That's the effect that my character is looking for. What's the sticking point? What is not clear to you about that?

15@10 DO ANYTHING. Or is that an example of false advertising?

If I have not made myself clear what it is I want this prayer to do by now, then I'm through arguing about it. I think you understand damn good and well what I want it to do, and you're just being obstinate over technicalities. If you want to be obstinate over technicalities, that's your business, but I'm done arguing. If you still don't understand what I want it to do, then forget it and just roll for the non corporeality.

Thu Oct 2 2008 9:56 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Am I STILL not clear here? All I want is for the prayer to change botch dice rolls into failed dice rolls. What is unclear about that? If you rolled a botch, it is no longer a botch, but is now a failure. What's the sticking point?
The sticking point is that from your character's perspective the dice do not exist. He cannot pray anything that would affect the reading or the rolling of the dice directly; he can only pray to affect things that are within his reality. Further, despite your claim

Derek (controlled by you, I might add) made a reference to botching in his computer hacking attempt. So, obviously, the term "botch" is known to versers. They might not understand game mechanics, but they understand what botches are. In my last world, I prayed for a woman to be healed. Instead, I got a huge explosion. That was not a miracle healing, now was it? So, my character would call that a botch, if he knew that term. My character knows that bad things can and do happen when he plays with these kinds of things. He doesn't want that to happen anymore. My character wouldn't know how to say it in non game mechanics terms, but I know what the effect is that he is looking for.
the word is being used informally to refer to any really serious foul-up. Derek would not know the difference between accidentally triggering the alarm which he failed to override and accidentally triggering the alarm because he attempted to override it; both would, in his language, be "botches".

I believe it was C. S. Lewis who responded to the question of whether God can do anything by saying that whatever it is, it has to be a real thing. You are asking God to do an unreal thing--to change the way dice which do not exist are read by people who do not exist. Sure, you can "do anything" with a 15@10 wish, but that does not include altering the bias of a M15@10 wish to a T1@1 skill comparable to keeping a fire burning, because the bias is not real, but an unreal description of the fabric of reality. In the same way, the dice are the unreal mechanism by which the laws of reality, the physics of the universe, are simulated. You, the player, botch because the dice came up 00; your character botches because something fouled up somewhere setting off a chain reaction of events that had disastrous results. Yet those chain reactions are all simple causal chains; anything that would prevent them from happening would also prevent the intended outcome from happening. You might want to create a flame to start a fire. On a botch, you get the unspecified outcome that you douse the tinder with water, causing it no longer to be easily ignited. That happens because something went wrong in the causal chain. To stop it, you have to disrupt the causal chain. If you disrupt the causal chain, you will not get water--or fire, either.

Pray your prayer. I know my answer.

--M. J. Young

Fri Oct 3 2008 10:10 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Pray your prayer. I know my answer.

And your answer is "THAT'S NOT GONNA WORK!!!! IT'S BROKEN!!!!!!!!!" (long story)

However, I'm going to pray it anyway. I was trying to get you to understand what I wanted. What I want is for botch dice rolls to become failures. However, my character would pray:

"God, please eliminate any unexpected results in the psionics (or magic, as the case may be) that I am about to attempt. The expected results would be success or failure. Anything outside of that (read "botch") I ask you to negate and nulify. Prevent any and all unexpected results (read "botch") from happening." Pray for 5 minutes

After that, go non-corporeal, and walk through the door.

Sat Oct 4 2008 1:43 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

You pray the prayer and are filled with the assurance that you did it right, that there is now no chance that you will release uncontrolled power release.

You then attempt to become non-corporeal and find you are unable to do it.

--M. J. Young

Wed Oct 8 2008 4:43 am #

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