Those standard stats also tend to represent the statistically average individual of their individual type. The statistically average little old lady zombie, the average former-Spetznaz-guy zombie, and so forth. They then become the baseline off of which you compare others of the same type, and try not to vary them so much that the averages become meaningless.
Daywalkers
(166 posts) (9 voices)-
JohnA1nut
MemberOK, rather than try to list off every kind of person, how about a list of what I think they should be compared to, and let someone who better understands the system fill in the details. The first column is what it starts out as, the second is what it turns into at night. During the day, they would have the first set of stats.
Weak human (old lady) average 15 year old
average adult human, physically fit human
physically fit human, High but not superhuman, up to a bodybuilder.
bodybuilder, superhuman, but not unreasonably so. low 3@ topsOsevens, do you now see why I wanted the bodybuilders to have the same kind of tree-like skin as the weak? From a distance, you can't tell them apart. Nine out of ten, you're going to be alright, facing something you could escape from or kill with little difficulty. It's that one time when it's going to be something freakishly tough and difficult to deal with. Kind of mix things up every once in a while, keep the player on their toes.
Just an aside, Osevens, have you ever noticed that you and I never address each other by name? Just by screen names.
I'd love to have Kyler and Ryan in on this. I know Kyler would have some pretty wicked ideas.
What else do we need?
(Doing Therapy)
Mon Feb 8 2010 7:16 am # -
It sounds like what you're talking about a microscopic symbiote that alters the attributes and body structure of its host after bonding and has the capability for photosynthesis but also requires human flesh at some point to complete respiration. Look up bod symbiotes in the rule book if you haven't already. =]
Ky
Mon Feb 8 2010 3:30 pm # -
Ah, symbiote. Why didn't I find that word fifteen years ago? Well, this spell checker chokes on it, too. We called them symbionts in the book, and of course linkers, which might be the particular type involved here, because they have the ability to control the body. Although it could be a simple parasite that has the ability to inflict pain on a victim that does not act as desired.
--M. J. Young
Mon Feb 8 2010 11:31 pm # -
Oh, absolutely, definitely a good way to go.
--M. J. Young
Tue Feb 9 2010 12:59 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberIt would be a parasitic infection not unlike a virus, which is just a form of parasitic infection. Whatever that is. That is a form of symbiosis if I recall. There were three kinds. Both parties benefit, one party benefits, the other gets nothing, and one party benefits, and the other is harmed. Parasitic. Don't remember the names of the other two.
Osevens, again, why does it have to be one or the other? I think it could be both. The "Go Plant Myself" instinct would be either old zombies at the end of their lifespan, or zombies that needed nourishment. Except once planted, they can't uproot. They would both have the bark-like skin. What I wanted was for it to be both ends of the spectrum, hence why I say a 9 to 1 ratio (at least) for the zombies. If it has bark skin, it's either old and really weak, hungry and really weak, OR has superhuman strength. One or the other. No middle ground. You can't tell from a distance. I just really think it could be an interesting trick to pull on the player once in a while. They've encountered three old people and saw how they looked and how slow them moved. Old people are easy to avoid. Then, they see a guy with bark-like skin, think it's an old lady, and don't pay her any attention. Then it starts coming towards them, and it used to be Arnold Schwarzenegger. See what I mean? That could be really interesting. For the old people, the hard, bark-like skin gives them (at most) a -1 cover. For Arnold, he's completely covered in a quarter inch of fresh oak. Freakishly strong, with a -10 (or whatever) cover value. And you thought it was a helpless old woman...... Tell me that wouldn't be interesting to pull once in a while.
As for how they got here, I kind of wanted the trees to be kind of innocent. I know it might sound weird, but the idea that they didn't mean to mess up the world and it's really just a big misunderstanding just kind of sounded sweet. Really, I don't give a hoot one way or the other. If somebody else wants to write up a better story for how they came into existence, they are more than welcome to do so. That's my default story if no one writes anything better.
What else do we need?
(Doing Therapy)
Tue Feb 9 2010 1:28 am # -
johnosevens
Member
Probably because you are a 'John' - one out of many here - and I don't much like being a "Harry," so it's easier to keep you straight when addressing you, and easier on my nerves when addressing me.Just an aside, Osevens, have you ever noticed that you and I never address each other by name? Just by screen names.
I like this. This works.Weak human (old lady) average 15 year old
average adult human, physically fit human
physically fit human, High but not superhuman, up to a bodybuilder.
bodybuilder, superhuman, but not unreasonably so. low 3@ tops
I never said you shouldn't give them the woody tree-bark skin, I just said you should use it for the ones about to starve themselves into treedom. If you want to use it more or less at random, that's up to you. Maybe some of them bark over more readily than others?Osevens, do you now see why I wanted the bodybuilders to have the same kind of tree-like skin as the weak? From a distance, you can't tell them apart. Nine out of ten, you're going to be alright, facing something you could escape from or kill with little difficulty. It's that one time when it's going to be something freakishly tough and difficult to deal with. Kind of mix things up every once in a while, keep the player on their toes.
+1.bod symbiotes
Tue Feb 9 2010 1:33 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberProbably because you are a 'John' - one out of many here - and I don't much like being a "Harry," so it's easier to keep you straight when addressing you, and easier on my nerves when addressing me.
I don't like the name Harry. I don't know why. I was afraid you would be offended if I told you that. If you're cool with screen names, so am I. (laughing)
Maybe some of them bark over more readily than others?
I would only want it to be both the really weak and also the insanely strong zombies, for reasons I've mentioned.
(Doing Therapy)
Tue Feb 9 2010 2:38 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberAh, I see. I hadn't thought of it like that. I was just thinking the verser would be duped by it, but by the point in the story that the dupe would work, someone would have told him about it. OK, only if they're going to plant themselves.
I still want a hardened skin defensive value on the bodybuilders. I mean really, how often do you encounter a bodybuilder? Might as well make them as tough as you can make them, ya know? Maybe it could be the enemy you have to defeat to rescue the fair maiden or something.
(Doing Therapy)
Tue Feb 9 2010 4:28 am # -
johnosevens
MemberYeah. Barkskinned bodybuilder plant-tanks are suitably terrifying that they need to exist.
On a complete aside, I just read on your own game thread - poking my head in on a rare occasion - you have a Mare's Leg. I am now officially jealous, as that would be my close-quarters firearm of choice.
Tue Feb 9 2010 4:37 am # -
Tadeusz
MemberWell, it could be spores from outer space dropped by a robotic interstellar colonizer. The tree AI doesn't recognize humans or mammals as intelligent, so it thinks the world is empty. The tree parasatizes the dominant life form, and the connection of human IQ with tree IQ damages both of them severely and turns them into zombies.
Meanwhile, the robot ship has gone on toward Alpha Centauri to drop off the seeds that will build 'The Society of Harmonious Growing' over there.
Tue Feb 9 2010 5:16 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberYeah. Barkskinned bodybuilder plant-tanks are suitably terrifying that they need to exist.
Well I'm glad we came to some good compromises there. ::High-fives Osevens::
you have a Mare's Leg.
Not quite, it wasn't on person, it was ordered, paid for, and on the way. I don't know if it versed with me. It was a shotgun though. Shorter version of what Arnold uses in T2. Oh did you see Zombieland? Woody Harrellson uses one. His was a 44 magnum I believe.
(Doing Therapy)
Tue Feb 9 2010 9:02 am # -
While on one level I agree with this, it winds up mattering for a couple of reasons.The zombie origin story isn't really important.
One reason is that you can't be certain some very clever verser isn't going to find a way to look back into the past and learn the truth of the matter, and therefore as referee you're going to have to fill in that information when it's discovered. While careful consideration of the biases to exclude most retrocognitive and time travel skills is helpful, you'd be surprised at the loopholes people find.
A second reason is that the way the creatures came into existence might be important for determining the biases of the universe. If they were genetically engineered, that implicates both the tech bias (someone has genetic engineering skills) and the bod bias (they might involve 13@ dependent symbionts). Obviously if they are magically or psionically created, the magic or psionics to create such creatures must have existed in that universe at the time of their creation, and there might be other residue from that time if the biases have since changed.
So it's important to have a clear notion in mind of how things came to be as they are, because it's going to impact what else might be true.
--M. J. Young
Tue Feb 9 2010 10:59 pm # -
JTM
MemberAh, didn't consider the Bias angle. I suppose that would also make who bioengineered them important, as if they're from aliens, that likely implies FTL and definitely implies bias high enough for both large-scale engines and probably cryogenics, though I'm not sure where those are relative to bioengineering.
Tue Feb 9 2010 11:23 pm # -
JohnA1nut
MemberWell, I wanted 20th century technology, regardless of what the biases are. I'm imagining this happening like 10-15 years ago, and this is where the world is now.
While careful consideration of the biases to exclude most retrocognitive and time travel skills is helpful, you'd be surprised at the loopholes people find.
I wanted flatline magic and psionics. For the first time I think I see why you want that in certain worlds. As far as loopholes, I'd love to know what they are.....
(Doing Therapy)
Wed Feb 10 2010 12:04 am # -
The question is whether you want the entire universe limited to twencen tech or whether the tech bias can be higher than that to support FTL or other technologies that are beyond twentieth century earth.Well, I wanted 20th century technology, regardless of what the biases are.
--M. J. Young
Wed Feb 10 2010 3:13 am # -
I find it kind of interesting that the general consensus seems to be that these things need to come from outside of the natural bias of 20th century earth rather than being created in a modern-day laboratory setting (especially with 20th century earth technology experimenting with genetics in horticulture as far back as Gregor Mendel). A nice little botch could easily create a species of microscopic plant symbiont that are capable of linking with a human causing an "outbreak" similar to that of a new, untreatable strain of virus or bacteria (and it probably would be treated that way, at least initially); of course, if it were me, I'd probably just have the new species naturally evolve, bypassing the tech, psi, or mag question altogether.
Ky
Fri Feb 12 2010 6:44 pm # -
Bypass the bias altogether? Kyler, briefly though I've seen you, I like the way you think, sir.
Just to be clear, what he said was:
...bypassing the tech, psi, or mag question altogether.
You still have to consider the bod bias, because you have to know how it is that these creatures "infect" and alter their targets/hosts.
--M. J. Young
Sun Feb 14 2010 11:10 pm # -
JohnA1nut
MemberYa know MJ, you were saying that there is no way you could have turned into a molecular biologist. I told you about the time I accidentally threw that knife at my girlfriend Janie. Where the knife hit her wrist, she just has a scar. A quarter of an inch one way, she would have permanently lost the use of the hand. A quarter of an inch the other way, it would have punctured her femoral artery and she would have died.
If I had caused her to lose the use of her hand, I would have married her.
If I had killed her, I'd be in prison.A quarter of an inch between radically changing my life forever. Now tell me you couldn't have become a molecular biologist.
Sat Feb 20 2010 11:07 am # -
I don't know, John. Some things seem to me to be fundamental to who we are. I'm squeamish, maybe, is a good word for it. I don't like blood; I can't even listen to girls talking about anything related to having their ears pierced (girls in college use to do that just to watch me squirm). I can talk in very abstract terms about biology, but I would not be able to stand in the room while someone was dissecting a frog.
There are a lot of things I would hate to imagine I could be that I would admit I might be in an alternate version, but there are some things that I know I could not be.
Now, if you could get far enough into my psyche to connect this aversion to gore with some event in my life which you could remove or alter, then you could persuade me that it is not a fundamental part of my character. The problem is, I can't make that connection, and so I don't believe such an event exists. If it does, you'll never find it, and you'll never persuade me without finding it.
--M. J. Young
Sat Feb 20 2010 11:34 pm # -
JohnA1nut
MemberI don't know, John. Some things seem to me to be fundamental to who we are.
And if we were talking about YOU I would agree. But we're not talking about YOU. We're talking about an entirely different person. YOU are squeamish. Your divergent might not be. A lot of people have a problem watching gory horror movies. Not I. I can separate the truth from the illusion, and recognize that what I am watching isn't real. I have a great deal of respect for the people who do the makeup for those movies. It often takes hours and hours to set up the makeup for a 30 second scene in the movie. And if the guy flubs his lines or something goes wrong, they gotta go back and do it ALL OVER AGAIN!!!! I recognize it as artwork. However, I have no problem imagining a version of me who is completely squeamish about such things.
I'm derailing the thread. Anyone else got any new ideas for what we can do with this?
Sun Feb 21 2010 12:53 am # -
johnosevens
MemberNot really. It seems like we have a pretty solid NPC cast, a clearly defined 'villain' including some good ideas about how they work (locally evolved biological parasites that infect people, feed on others, and turn into more spore-spreading trees if they starve for too long or after a certain period of time when senescence would set in), and... sounds like a world to me. The only thing we're missing, really, is something for the Verser himself to do here. I mean this could be one of those worlds where there is no real 'point' or plot, you just survive there until you die and do whatever you feel like and it's basically a sandbox world, and that might work too.
The only other thing I can think of to detail out might be individual survivor colonies or holdouts, a step above the survivalist individuals we have above.
Sun Feb 21 2010 7:13 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberI mean this could be one of those worlds where there is no real 'point' or plot, you just survive there until you die and do whatever you feel like and it's basically a sandbox world, and that might work too.
That's kind of what I had in mind. That's why I wanted a large variety of different NPCs. Somebody for every different kind of player to meet first. You got a gun nut? Introduce him to The Survivalists. You got a techie? Introduce him to The Garbageman.
What do we have to do to finish it?
Sun Feb 21 2010 7:55 am # -
johnosevens
MemberGame mechanics. This is the part where I step out and let Scott, Eric, and MJ do their thing. The last part you need to do is the game mechanics. Establishing the bias levels of the world probably comes first, followed by those pages-long 'brief' versions of the character sheet for each of our NPCs and each of our 'typical' zombies, along with lists of possible modifications ("Wooden - Increase Density by @5, decrease Agility by @3," for instance), events ("zombies got into the drinking water; ration or risk infection until you can secure more," or "stockpile! you found someone's hidden cache of weapons and ammo"), and so forth.
Sun Feb 21 2010 4:21 pm #
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