Gaming Outpost Discussions

1. 

   Tadeusz
   Member

   MJ gave me a slightly higher walking speed skill because I and my brother used to walk very fast to get places. And then I have a friend who got into one of my books as The Walking Man who hiked thirty miles one way one day and thirty back the other day, and I think did this more than once. And yeah, I've given people boosts in walking skills when they 1)visited a low gravity planet. 2)visited a high gravity planet.

   One character went on an archeology quest a la Lost in Space a la 'we lost the maps back to Earth ten thousand years ago, and now we really need to find it again' and the only planet he visited was low gravity. Another character went to Psyclone Station which has a rice paddy civ with high-grav. Probably the high-grav is good for a boost and if done enough the walking in the rice paddies would be too.

   Thu Jan 14 2010 3:12 am #
2. 

   JohnA1nut
   Member

   OK MJ, would carrying that pack around all the time improve my walking skill? If he's going to have to take all of the penalties for it, then I want to make sure I get all of the bonuses as well. What all would I get, besides increases in strength and stamina?

   (Doing Therapy)

   Thu Jan 14 2010 3:24 am #
3. 

   Brock
   Member

   I didn't post? Oh, I remember now. I had to leave and didn't finish my post, and when i returned someone had shut off the browser, and I forgot about it. post in a minute, here.

   Thu Jan 14 2010 4:13 am #
4. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   This time there really are quite a few players, including Michael, Brock, Maxx, Kurt, Harry, Nikolaj, and John.

   Michael rolls 34 on attempting to contact the vacation sphere; it seems that I last calculated his chance of success on the previous page, so I'll do it again as the quicker way to get it: Psi BRA is 2@1, SAL for this skill is 1@1, and he's got a +5SM for closing his eyes, so his chance of success is 37%, and that's a solid roll, and a new use for a 1@2 SAL on the skill. I don't happen to know where this particular "vacation" goes, but a GE roll might be worth rolling: 15 is moderately favorable.

   Given Brock's questions, I think Tom Titus needs to make an ed lev check. He's probably got a 1@10 ed lev (although I'll bet his official records list that and his intellect as considerably lower than that, thanks to some well-placed bribes). He rolls 13+16=29, well outside what might be successful.

   I have to backtrack to find that Maxx learned this force wall skill with a roll of 68, and thus it will last as many minutes.

   I like his reasoning to his father about practicing the telepathy, so I'll give him +3 intensities on his 1@8 persuasion to effectively 2@1 for the check; he rolls (2+10=)12; his father rolls (13+10=)23, and I'm sure that Morani does not have a 2@4 will power, so he's satisfied.

   His chance of success on using the skill once learned is lower than it was, I think, but it still has that strong sit-mod, so a roll of 46 is solid. He wants to walk on the bar; that's going to require some discussion. I'm also uncertain about the density viewing skill.

   Kurt pulls an 11 GE on the events of the night, which is very good, really, so he should have things go his way for a while.

   I rolled the TK pulse rolls for Harry last time; he's continuing those attempts. he also gets a 19 GE on its effects, not thwarting but generally unfavorable. I give Brandy a simple strength check for lifting the waitress, but 15+17 is no good.

   Nikolaj is revising his previous post because he intended quotes that he overlooked, and I interpreted them as not quoted; so let me rethink Kathrine Kucher's response. I think I'll invite him to open the entire can of worms, and see how many worms he releases. (Those are metaphors, Nikolaj--opening a can of worms is an expression for complicating things tremendously.)

   The possibility of having to destroy the ship was always not only present but rather significant in the scenario in which John 2 is battling; that he has already suggested it is encouraging, from one perspective, as I would have expected him to object to it. But one problem at a time--he might want to hunt for a bomb, and that would mean that I would have to determine whether there is a bomb and how difficult it would be to find it.

   --M. J. Young

   Fri Jan 15 2010 2:30 am #
5. 

   JohnA1nut
   Member

   as I would have expected him to object to it.

   Why would you have expected me to object? This is why I say you should put me into a world which requires player involvement. I have yet to do what you expect, so maybe I might surprise you.

   Fri Jan 15 2010 2:34 am #
6. 

   JohnA1nut
   Member

   Two

   Not arguing, just explaining. To me, if you've been doing something all of your life, you certainly qualify for professional skill. You've been walking longer than you've been at any job you will ever have. I figure I walk as well as the guy next to me. That would make it average professional, or 2@5. Someone who walked with a limp, but could still get around unassisted, would be a 2@1. That just seems right to me. Then again, I know very little about gaming. I just felt the need to explain my position. Not arguing. Perhaps asking why it is only 2@1 though.

   (Doing Therapy)

   Fri Jan 15 2010 1:31 pm #
7. 

   Brock
   Member

   Two points

   1: Some skills naturally take more time and effort to truly master than others, like inherent body skills. This is due to everyday use not counting as a training regimen, but you do it anyway. You cannot LEARN to walk calmly through a blizzard carrying a small Indonesian child on your back down a mountain with broken arms from walking to school. There is an upper limit to the skill it is possible to garner from everyday, unfocused use. As for as I can tell, that's 2@1.

   2. The amount of time a person actually SPENDS walking each day varies greatly. Some, like myself, stay seated for some time each day, getting up only to go somewhere or to exercise on purpose to avoid getting fatter. There has to be a midpoint somewhere in order to call someone's walking ability 'average'.

   Fri Jan 15 2010 8:52 pm #
8. 

   Nikolaj
   Member

   I walk about an hour minimum in transportation to and from my job, on top of that, all my other errands are also by foot and my job is not to sit at a desk. :)

   Fri Jan 15 2010 10:16 pm #
9. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   The point really was to distinguish professional walkers from everyone else without pushing too many people into the realm of expert walkers. I want to be able to say that those Olympic speedwalkers have better SALs (in addition to having higher walking speeds and likely higher staminas) than the ordinary person, without making most people amateurs who have to check for walking under ordinary situations. Harry probably has an increase in his walking skill because he worked on a ship for a while (not sure if that was included off the top of my head)--I know that when you first try to walk in one of the Mary Piper scenarios you have to make a walking skill check to avoid falling. If most humans were amateur walkers, they would have to check for ordinary walking situations. People who have limps or other handicaps often do have to check for ordinary walking situations, as they experience pain or imbalance when they attempt to walk. People who have walked on many other worlds under different gravities, who have walked in places where the gravity fluctuates, who have dragged their legs through the muck of a swamp world, who have used magnetic boots and velcro socks and other aids to walking in weightless environments--these people might be experts at walking, because they know how to do it in situations most of us have never encountered.

   Sure, you walk a lot; but you probably haven't really practiced walking since you were three years old and thought you had it down pretty well.

   And on that note, let me turn my attention to game posts from Michael, Brock, Maxx, Kurt, Harry, and John 2.

   I almost forgot an aspect of those psionic vacations that Michael would have noticed about now. We'll see how he responds to this.

   Brock wants more information about this target, which tells me he's serious about putting forward ideas when the time comes.

   Maxx has a 2@2 Bod Bias for his limb-assisted walking (I have just updated his sheet to include 1@5 Signal Generation, auditory B0@2, 1@5 Multi-legged Crawl B1@3, and 1@3 Arm-assisted Walking B2@2 among his skills) and a 1@8 Will Power for his BRA in a world with a 13@ bod bias, so his positives are 53 against a targeted B6@1 Balance Beam Walking skill, which he notes should be bonused because he can use the hand hold for support, so I'll give him +20 on that. He also indicates an average amateur ability at walking on fences, +15 for the example. That's 88-61=27% chance that he can do this, surprisingly high given the bias disparity. He rolls 90, and fails to manage it.

   I won't roll for Kurt reloading the pistol because it appears to be practice and there is no stress on the situation. I feel a bit like I'm wasting his time talking about breakfast, but he didn't really give me much else.

   Harry is going to help Brandy, using his belly crawl skill that I don't have listed.

   John 2 doubles back to the cargo hold. I need to know what's happened to Lauren and CW, and 17 says it's pretty much going as expected--which means they are fighting bunches of these things, but holding their own. I also need a GE roll for what he finds when he opens one random cargo crate: 15 suggests he might be pleased with it, but it's not what he wants.

   I believe that's a good day's game.

   --M. J. Young

   Fri Jan 15 2010 11:15 pm #
10. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    I believe I just missed you, which is said, because I'm looking forward to how exactly this might develop. :)

    Oh, and I wasn't rooting for expert walker, just maybe above average :)

    Fri Jan 15 2010 11:36 pm #
11. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    Understood MJ. I was just saying what I thought it should have been. My opinion and 50 cents will get you a can of Pepsi.

    Fri Jan 15 2010 11:42 pm #
12. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Yes, Nikolaj, you did just miss me; but I would not have spotted your post about walking had you not mentioned it afterward. I hesitate to give you much above average, but then, that's in part because I barely give myself much above average, and I've hiked through the Rocky Mountains with several days' gear and supplies doing eighty miles in about a week, plus portaged canoes on many several mile paths.  I do note that my speed is a bit above average (which is separate from the SAL), about four miles per hour (not anymore, I think, but that's because in my old age my asthma has impacted by stamina). Thus I would need something akin to that kind of walking experience to be persuaded that anyone approached "average professional", and competitive walking for the higher professional levels.

    I should probably mention for John's sake that in creating initial scores I am far more interested the level of ability displayed than in the amount of practice cited. Sure, if someone tells me that he has been practicing his martial arts style for twenty years I will consider that in setting his SAL, and on that basis might push him into the expert range at least on the base skills; but if he's not a black belt, that's not going to happen, no matter how long he has been practicing. After you are "in the verse" the only way I can assess your rate of improvement is by tracking your practice or, on occasion, recognizing that a new use indicates a better understanding or level of control of the skill. Thus the fact that you walked thousand of miles over thousands of hours over the course of your life means very little to me. For another example, most people who swim at all have probably swum many miles over the course of their lives, but that does not mean that they could all swim one mile without a break. I have twice accomplished that, swimming one mile, and am confident (even in my current condition) that I could do so again, and thus I feel with that plus my certifications in advanced swimming and lifesaving (both BSA and Red Cross) that I should be a low-level professional swimmer. I'm not much impressed that someone had a swimming pool in his back yard and played in it every day from March 1st to October 30th, and will probably give that person a top amateur rating absent any evidence of better. I am not persuaded that such a person could swim a mile. On the other hand, if he gets into a place where he can create a viable training program in a pool, and he does so and follows it, I will give him the benefit of assuming that he can become a 2@1 swimmer who could swim a mile even without evidence he has ever done so.

    And that's why simply having walked a lot in your life does not make you a high level professional or expert walker.

    Thanks for letting me clarify that. Now let me see what I can do with thread posts from Michael, Maxx, Nikolaj, and John 2.

    Michael hopes to see his reflection in a babbling brook, which I know from experience is not so simple--one needs to find a smooth relatively calm corner with an adequate amount of sunlight. That means a general effects roll, for which the roll is 19. I'm also giving him an intuition check on the teeth question, because he probably can't see it but he could feel it. Rolls are 9+17=too high, so he's not going to learn anything that way.

    Maxx rolls 96 on his latest chemical analysis variant, but it probably is not a botch and might even be a success, given the limitations and bonuses. Let me check the math. The skill bias is 9@1, but since it is limited to density we'll give it a +10SM. He also has included a 4-minute preparatory concentration, which is treated as three doublings, +30. That means the skill has an inherent +40 SM; his BRA is 1@10 and his bias 10@1 and the world bias is 15@, so he has 176-91 for his chance of success, which is not good enough for his roll at 85%. He also intends to try the supported balance beam walk again the next day, and rolls 43, which is still above his modified 27% chance of success. Oops--he has to recreate the bar to be able to walk on it, so I'll have to roll that first, which is 46, pretty likely given his 2x10@ bias+1@10 BRA plus any SAL, so he's good for that.

    Nikolaj has suggested that I might be scheming something based on my presentation of Kathrine Kucher, and I object that I am not scheming. I know that he means nothing sinister by it, only that he sees machinations pushing in a particular direction. Let me say for clarification that I do not scheme. I create characters, and try to make them believable and interesting, and sometimes that means they might be attractive. I figure that the daughter of the wealthy owner of the ranch is going to be of a particular type with variations, and I attempt to communicate that. Some of the points here are that being wealthy she can afford to look good, and being the daughter of the head of the ranch she will be expected to maintain a pleasant but strong and possibly aloof appearance. She also has power, because of her family, and that gives her confidence. She is also quite accustomed even at her age to men showing particular interest in and courtesy toward her--it would be a real coup to become the son-in-law of the ranch owner, but a disaster to lose the job for overstepping a line. She thus has expectations about how she will be treated, and a strong sense of self that does not easily capitulate to the attentions of others. These are the points that matter in my mind to creating Kathrine Kucher; the rest flows from it.

    He gets a 10 GE roll on what happens next in his conversation with the girl; that's going to play quite well for him for now.

    Derek's 2@6 SAL is with a laser blaster, which is distinct from a laser pistol, so he's only 1@10 with that. That's still an example, and Derek does have a 1@8 teaching SAL and a 2@3 Tech BRA, so the numbers are 20+18+12+John's 12@1 tech bias +2@2 BRA+the 14@ world bias against a 12@1 target skill bias. We'll cancel the 12@1's against each other and that gives us 86% chance to learn this skill, he rolls 53, a 1@2 Use Laser Pistol T12@1.

    I'm recalling information from a previous GE roll, 15 for whether there were fire extinguishers that he might use for propulsion.

    --M. J. Young

    Sun Jan 17 2010 10:01 pm #
13. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    1@2 Use Laser Pistol T12@1.

    So you don't actually have to shoot it to learn how to use it. Cool.

    Sun Jan 17 2010 10:08 pm #
14. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Of course not. If you have learned how to do something, you know how to do it. I would allow someone to get an amateur level of ability from studying a book on Tae Kwon Do, on the assumption that they know what they have to do to do it and they are capable of doing that. It covers the fact that people have different learning styles. A listening learner or a reading learner ought not be penalized simply because a hands-on learner has immediate practical experience.

    I had a tremendous overload of e-mail today, plus two sets of errands which ought to have been one but that the second came to me by phone after the first was completed, and it has left me short of time with five players to cover: Maxx, Kurt, Harry, Nikolaj, and John 2. Let's see what I can do in the time allotted.

    Maxx is trying skills he's already failed, but giving time between to create new circumstances. The first is that density vision skill, for which he rolls 90, another failure. The second is walking on the bar assisted, for which he rolls 15, which it strikes me is a success--yes, we'll give him 1@1 Assisted Balance Beam Walking B6@1 +20SM on surfaces twice the width of the foot provided that there is stable support for one hand. This will make his other bod skills considerably easier. I'm sure he'd like to do the other skill again, but he didn't say so, and it will save me time to move to the next player.

    I considered it very unlikely that there would be any problem with breakfast for Kurt, but a GE of 25 is pretty unlikely--Remarkably bad but not totally surprising. That fits the "Ziggy shows up" scenario.

    Harry has listed a 1@7 Belly Crawl, which I'll accept, to which I add 2x7@ bias and 2@2 BRA to get 53% chance he can do it the way he wants. He rolls 83, so this is not going to work smoothly for him. Brandy will make a suggestion.

    I'm adding +1 Mark to Nikolaj's 1@10 SAL religion skill; when he gets four he'll be a professional, and it seems that he's doing things now that are bringing him there rather quickly. This was inspired by his praise time, but is more for the overall practice and preaching in which he has been involved since his arrival here. He also prays that 1@2 Pray for Third Party Revelation M7@7 while walking, requires successful use of Prayer Tongues M7@1 40:00 TF asks God to reveal Himself to a specified other individual +38SM; he rolls 33 on the prayer tongues, 71 on the skill itself, with his +10 for his religion SAL, +10 for alliance, +1@9 BRA, and +2x7 bias, all of which comes to 103, something is happening there, but he won't know it until tomorrow.

    John 2 is in a hot zone; the chance that he's going to have the opportunity to play around with just about anything is slim--and a 20 GE roll says this is not that chance.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Jan 19 2010 3:37 am #
15. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    I had a tremendous overload of e-mail today

    <wink>

    (Doing Therapy)

    Tue Jan 19 2010 6:15 am #
16. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    Ooh, clifhangers! You know how to have me coming back quickly. I'll hope I'll have restraint enough to not stay up too late so as to catch you posting ...

    Tue Jan 19 2010 5:54 pm #
17. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    John, you were only a small fraction of the somewhere near sixty non-irrelevant letters I received yesterday. O.K., maybe you were a large fraction.

    I think I see only Maxx, Nikolaj, and John 2. Perhaps the rest are recovering from Martin Luther King Jr.'s Birthday celebrations.

    I am reminded of a birthday card that must have been given to one of my parents at some point but wound up in my brother's night table drawer for many years. The front cover said, "Happy Birthday to a Man who Only Drinks on Holidays". The interior was a multiple-page guide providing a holiday name for every day of the year. The most memorable were the day after Washington's Birthday, which was of course Birthington's Washday, and Bluebeard's Wedding Anniversary, which came up half a dozen times through the year. This predates the Monday Holiday Bill, so the only holidays that were not fixed to a specific annual calendar date were Thanksgiving and the Easter-related ones. I think that January 2nd was National Hangover Day. Of course, at our age, what we liked about holidays was staying home from school; and my parents really were very moderate in their alcohol consumption--I still have never seen either of them intoxicated, and I would say that's a good thing.

    O.K., Maxx is experimenting with his skills, Nikolaj anticipating the outcome of his prayers, and John 2 battling space dragons. Let's see what happens with each of these.

    At first I was not sure I could answer Maxx' question about the lengths of the various bars. After all, his knowledge was really much more subjective, that of having the impression of where the end was, not a mathematical precision. But I found a solution for that. Next he wants to keep trying to create the bar and observe it; since the creation of the bar must be successful for the observance to work, we have to roll for both. His chance of success on creating the bar is 2x10@ bias+1@10 BRA+50 SM+1@2 SAL=102%, and rolling only tells us how long it lasts. That roll is 61, about an hour. Now he wants to attempt that density viewing again, for which we already calculated a chance of success at 85%, so it's probably just a matter of time as long as he's not really unlucky (he has a 1% chance to botch trying to learn this). He rolls 02, 1@1 Perceive Density P9@1 analyze chemistry variant 4:00 preparatory concentration determines density within line of vision based on density (maximum depth in inches=RS divided by one tenth density) +40SM. As to spotting something else with it in the two minutes it is active, he got an 11 GE roll, so something is more likely than nothing.

    I don't mean to stretch out the cliffhanger, but then, I don't see this lunch going to the point before the pleasantries are covered. After all, Nikolaj has stepped across the threshold into "polite society", and Kathrine will be nothing if not polite.

    John 2 made so many equipment changes in this world that I don't yet have stats on some of the weapons--in part because I wasn't going to put the effort into listing objects he wasn't going to keep anyway. So we'll have to delay long enough to get some numbers on those.

    --M. J. Young

    Wed Jan 20 2010 12:04 am #
18. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    John, you were only a small fraction of the somewhere near sixty non-irrelevant letters I received yesterday. O.K., maybe you were a large fraction.

    Like I said MJ, how long has it been since I did that? Over a year at least.

    (Doing Therapy)

    Wed Jan 20 2010 12:12 am #
19. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    It's a busy game today, with Michael, Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, John 2, and the pleasing and exciting return of Graeme. Hopefully I have sufficient time to address these threads.

    Michael puts forward an interesting suggestion: he is present in a landscape that is entirely in his mind, and he wants to take a nap in that landscape. If he really falls asleep, though, then he won't be there anymore, will he? Yet if he does not fall asleep, does that break the illusion? We will give him the benefit of a general effects roll: 8+1+7=16, neutral result or no effect.

    Maxx wants to put color in his shield, and I have verified that it can be any color without penalty, except that such objects cannot normally be completely invisible. I've made the force wall invisible for setting reasons (it would be awkward for his mother to see it), but that's not a problem for me. He gets a 6 GE roll, which means he's going to get away with making a visible force object without anyone noticing. (Changing the color of an established force object would require making another successful roll, which I have avoided here. Initial color is free as part of the success roll.) He rolls 74 on the density vision attempt, a 1@1 SAL with a +40 inherent SM, +2x10@ bias and 1@10 BRA=91%, So it works.

    I think that together Harry and Brandy should be able to lift the waitress without a roll, even in their gear; and I think I've had enough GE rolls to assure that they can do this without rolling another. So we'll let it go as it does.

    Let me have a bit of fun with the revelation delivered to Kathrine Kucher. After all, Nikolaj asked, and if God is going to send an angel, it would probably be one Miss Kucher already knows.

    John 2 is putting me through my paces so much so that I never got to the part where he actually shoots the monsters. Well, there's still tomorrow.

    I'm having a bit of trouble deducing how tall Graeme's tree is, other than that he doubled its size five times from its initial "sapling" height. I'll assume he started with a 2' tall sapling, which means it is 64' high, and that's certainly a tall and strong enough tree for him to climb. (Technically it is not as tall as that, since the doubling in size includes girth/volume; but it's almost certainly at least twenty feet tall and sturdy at the base.) That means he has to climb it, as he said, for which I do not see s skill.

    --M. J. Young

    Thu Jan 21 2010 1:45 am #
20. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    I'm looking at posts from Michael, Brock, Maxx, Harry, Nikolaj, and John 2. Let's see what we can do with everyone.

    I'm thinking that the world imaged by the sphere Michael is experiencing is very earth-like, and I don't see anything in his post that suggests he has any preference on that, so we'll go with that. I note that he rolled 34 on his original contact roll, which gives him just over half an hour of time here, of which he has probably used a third.

    I was tempted to go directly to the meeting so that Brock could hear the other suggestions and insert his own, but he does want a crack at the blueprints so I'd better come up with those.

    Maxx asks an interesting question, and a bunch of other questions, so let's get some answers.

    Let's roll a couple of simple strength checks for Harry, who did not really do anything on the ship to improve his 1@5 strength (he was a navigator, and he stayed out of the crow's nest as much as possible), and Brandy, who probably has a 1@5 strength also. If they both fail, there's a problem. Harry rolls 5+1=6, and he's got the heavy end, so I don't have to roll for Brandy.

    Everything is falling into place for Nikolaj. I don't know how things will go with the rest of the Kucher family, but Kathrine is on his side now.

    John 2 and Derek are both shooting at these dragons; Derek has already spent a shot from his 5-shot clip, clip so after four more shots he has to reload, 0:12 base time for that. Copying his other stats from earlier in the thread, Derek's hand/eye is 2@9 and his intuition is 2@3, which gives him a 2@6 RSV. His tech BRA is a 2@3 ed level, and his SAL with the laser rifle is 2@6. He's got a 12@ tech bias, which is covered by this world, so we sum his chance to hit as 99 minus the defenses of his target. He's point blank to 30', but he'll start shooting before that distance so there's no adjustment for range. Target values are 1@8 based on above average agility and intuition, so Derek is at 99-18=81% minus any size penalty, but he'll go for the big one first. The RF of the laser rifle is 5, so he makes it 20, and can fire once every three seconds; John is firing an RF3 weapon with a 2@ MSV so he gets 6 shots a minute with this, one every ten seconds. Derek also cuts his reload time to 0:06 because of his 2@ SAL, which will matter. John's chance to hit is his 1@10 SAL+2@2 RSV+2@2 BRA+2x12@ bias=88-1@8 TV=70% minus any penalty for size; but he's going for the closest one, so I'll give him +20 on his first shot, but also -20 for a small one. Let me tick off the attacks; the first one will arrive in fifteen seconds, and we'll give them five seconds for each next attack, but increase the number arriving by one with each wave. That means since Derek is targeting the largest and John the nearest, we need to keep track of when they arrive. There's also a question of what happens the first time John fires an explosive driven slug thrower in zero gravity, taped shoes or not.

    1. Both of them fire in the first second. Derek rolls 43, John 99. Derek's weapon is base lethal and he has +2DC (2@ SAL and 2@ RSV) for annihilating, so that's 43 intensities of damage; the big guy will have a 2@4 DV, so he divides that by two to 21.5, discards the fractions, and takes 21 intensities of damage, a serious wound but not quite fatal. Meanwhile, John botched, so I know what happened.
    3. In the third second, Derek gets his second shot, also at the big beast. He rolls 08, a hit for 8 intensities of which the beast takes 4, which is enough to finish it.
    6. Derek gets his third shot in the sixth second, and he'll pick off that lead beast, taking the -20 size penalty but gaining the +20 range bonus, rolling 40, enough to burn that one.
    9. In the ninth second, Derek uses his last shot from this clip. He'll target another larger one, 05 doing 5 intensities, but this is another 2@ DV so that's only 2 intensities effected. Now it will take him 0:06 to reload.
    10. This is the tenth second, the second in which John does not get a tech attack. Derek attacks again in the fifteenth second, and the first beast arrives in the twentieth, but we'll give John the opportunity to be creative.

    I think I'm done here.

    --M. J. Young

    Fri Jan 22 2010 1:31 am #
21. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    (Incredulously sarcastic tone)

    I gave you the stopwatch for Christmas, and the only number you can roll on it is a BOTCH!!!!!!!!

    Fri Jan 22 2010 1:58 am #
22. 

    Brock
    Member

    The stopwatch has declared MJ anathema. heh

    Fri Jan 22 2010 8:53 pm #
23. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    Brock, are you sure you used the right word there? I had to look up anathema on Dictionary.com. It said: a person or thing detested or loathed: That subject is anathema to him.

    So the stopwatch hates MJ? Or does it hate me?

    Fri Jan 22 2010 9:56 pm #
24. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    John, "anathema" is usually used in a technical sense to mean that the object (usually a person) has been condemned by the church; Paul used the Greek word from which it originates to speak of ostracizing someone. I think, then, what Brock means is that the use of the stopwatch has caused me to become the villain.

    I am very concerned about the time frame here tonight, because I have too much to do and too little time. I was going to watch Terminator Salvation again so I could finish some of the articles I need to write about it, but already I should be preparing to pick up people on the night shift and there are more threads here than I can address. So as much as I hate to do it, I'm going to attempt to put today's work into tomorrow, and come back to answer the game posts then.

    Sorry.

    --M. J. Young

    Sat Jan 23 2010 3:37 am #
25. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    Well, I obviously don't fear the stopwatch or else I wouldn't have gotten it for you. I just thought perhaps it might be nicer to me.

    Oh yeah, and I think I speak for everyone here when I say apology accepted, and good luck.

    Sat Jan 23 2010 3:48 am #
26. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Thanks. I'm pretty tired today, but am prioritizing the forum above the movie and a few other things, so let's see what I can accomplish. It looks like it begins in the forest with Maxx, heads toward Austria with Kurt, joins Harry by the sea, Nikolaj back on the ranch (yeah, I said that), John 2 spaced out, or rather out in space, and Graeme tangled in the jungle.

    I'm addressing Maxx' points, but I'm not at all sure about piggyback rides. After all, sprites have wings, which are part of the shoulder structure. We need a GE roll to determine whether there is anything like a piggyback ride which Maxx might use for this experiment. The roll is 16, and I would say that the neutral result is no.

    I previously rolled the GE roll which has set up Kurt's current situation; the question is, what will he do about it?

    Harry scores a 13 GE roll, which means just good enough, so he gets a bit of that moment he wants, sees a very busy Tara, and has to create his own triage area. He also has to pick one of his curative spells.

    We'll wrap up the important part in connection with Kathrine and Nikolaj, but then I think we'll bring back the complications. He has a potentially strong answer for this, if he can think of it; but we'll let him address it.

    John 2 wants to grab the gun; I see this as a moderately easy manipulate object task--requiring a roll because of several situational factors (he's rolling and disoriented, the gun is moving, he has to time it right) but worth +20 for the simplicity. The Human Standard Body Package gives a 2@3 SAL to the skill, his bias is 2x7@, his BRA is 2@2, and his roll is 77. The sum of the numbers says 79, so that's a good grab. I need to get back to my timer count-up, which starts with 1=11.

    1. This is the eleventh second, and Derek is pulling the clip out of his weapon.
    2. This is the twelfth second, and Derek is pulling out another power clip while dropping this one in his pocket.
    3. This is the thirteenth second, and Derek is connecting the new clip.
    4. This is the fourteenth second, and the capacitive system on Derek's gun is charging.
    5. This is the fifteenth second, and Derek fires again, 49, which will kill another. That means only one will arrive in the twentieth second.
    6. In the sixteenth second Derek's gun is recharging.
    7. In the seventeenth second he is acquiring another target.
    8. In the eighteenth second he fires, 93, but he's got the point blank bonus by this point, so that's another hit, and the next three will not arrive until the twenty-fifth second. John is about to grab his weapon.
    9. In the nineteenth second Derek's weapon is recharging for its third shot, and John has his weapon and is acquiring a target.
    10. This is the twentieth second, in which John gets to fire the carbine for the second time.

    Again that's a good place to wait. I note that Derek has killed four of them, so there are six left, three of whom are going to be here in five seconds. I guess that means two more in ten, and the last in fifteen. Oh, and I will give him new use for firing a gun in zero G--if he manages to hit anything with it.

    I can barely justify a roll for Graeme to climb a tree, but I can justify it--and a 12 means he succeeds. So he's up the tree, and then he creates the blade to cut the branches, 15 a good enough blade for the purpose.

    I believe that's everyone, and again I apologize for the delay.

    --M. J. Young

    Sat Jan 23 2010 11:46 pm #
27. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    so Greame can't cut with an ordinary knife, because of the movements needed, but he can climb a tree? Am I missing something?

    He has a potentially strong answer for this, if he can think of it; but we'll let him address it.

    I'm doing something different, but I have a backup plan :) (my character hasn't yet, but as a player I have)

    Sun Jan 24 2010 12:03 am #
28. 

    WilliamTWodium
    Member

    It's about the concepts. The knife is tech. Thinking about maneuvering the knife so as to get the proper results is different than thinking about maneuvering his body, and they're covered under different biases.

    Sun Jan 24 2010 9:34 pm #
29. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    The thing that gets me is a knife is 3@3 tech, so it's biased out in a flatline world, but a laser blaster which is far more complex is a 12@1 tech device, and still works in a flatline world. One of the most simple tools in existence, and it's biased out before an electronic device which is too complex for us to build in our current state of technology.

    Sun Jan 24 2010 10:21 pm #
30. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Ah, the bias area problem appears again.

    Let's start by suggesting that pounding something with your fist and beating it with a club are distinct skills conceptually, even though they are the same practically. We can probably recognize animals who have the ability to grasp objects which could be used as clubs and which do use those appendages to hit, but who do not use those appendages to hit with clubs. I suspect that an elephant probably would be included in this, using its trunk to hit something, using its trunk to pick up an object, but not using its trunk to pick up an object with which to hit something.

    That means the club is a tool, a technological concept. You have to understand the use of the tool to use it. The fist is a body part, in essence a manipulation skill, impacting your environment with your body movements. You can use your body parts without using a tool.

    Similarly, creatures who have claws can use them to cut and gouge other creatures and other objects; some accomplish this with their teeth as well. Yet those creatures are incapable of understanding the use of a knife to accomplish the same task. The proper use of the claw or tooth is inherent to the use of the body; the proper use of the knife is not.

    Now, contrary to John's suggestion that the knife is "one of the most simple tools in existence", it is actually a rather complicated device which incorporates several tools into a single application. The basic tools important here are the lever and the wedge. Which is the knife? It is actually both, and in a complicated way. It is a lever, because the force is created by the ability to leverage it from the handle; it is a wedge because the edge applies that force to the tip of a wedge, concentrating it the way wedges do. Yet it is more complicated than a simple leveraged wedge. We can see this by comparing it to a hatchet, which is very simply a wedge attached to a lever. So is a shovel; so is a pick. Some can openers, some crowbars, and some nail pulls are also simple leveraged wedges. Knives are more complicated than these, combining wedge and lever technology in complex ways--you can cut with it several ways, and you can also stab with it.

    So a knife is conceptually very complex. It only appears simple to us because the probably 12@ bias of our world and the probably at least 9@ or 10@ bias of everyone on this board means we have so inherent an understanding of the principles of levers and wedges that we don't even think about them and possibly can't explain or recognize them (for example, a screwdriver is a doubled lever, the blade acting as two levers off the center point to press against the surfaces of the slot in the screw head, but if you've never thought about how a screwdriver works you probably did not know that).

    Of course, the other side of the issue is why a laser pistol works where a knife or screwdriver does not.

    What the bias "grid" does is distinguish the complexity of principle from the complexity of application. The "principles" in a knife are leverage-based, the lever and the wedge. The lever is a relatively simple principle to understand, and thus we have clubs and hammers; the wedge is a relatively simple principle to understand, and thus we have spears and chisels. But the ideas of combining levers with wedges (axes, knives, swords, shovels, picks), or levers with levers (wrenches, pliers, screwdrivers) or wedges with wedges (saws, drills) are more complex, more complicated, in the application.

    Note that to use the knife you must have some understanding (even if inherent) of the interaction between the levers and the wedges. To use the laser pistol, your required understanding is much reduced: point, shoot, and watch for overheating. You probably still need to understand the concept of a laser as a pure focused high energy light which cuts or burns through targets, but we're not talking about building or even fixing one here, only of using it.

    Coming back to Graeme's magical cutting ability, it is mostly a matter of creating the magical edge which responds to his intent; he expresses that intent by the movements of his hands. Thus it appears that he is cutting with his fingers, but he is not--he is cutting with magic energy. Thus the result is not controlled by his ability physically to manipulate the "blade" but by his ability to control the magic.

    With this behind us, I'm going to post this and open tonight's official game post.

    --M. J. Young

    Mon Jan 25 2010 1:18 am #
31. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    I am now starting with Maxx, turning to Kurt, looking at Harry, following Nikolaj, welcoming the return of Scott, and finishing with John 2.

    It does indeed help that I started using bold characters to mark the months for Maxx, and this one is August, month 17, as he has so helpfully observed.

    Working my way through his post, I'm challenged to consider what happens to solid objects which are in the position of the force object at the moment it is created. I have a few factors which play into this. First, it is evident that there is no difference in density between the air where the force object is and the air where it isn't, and thus the force object is not compressing the air. I am inclined to think that this particular force object would not interfere with solid objects in its "path" at all--that is, if he were to create it leading into a tree, it would not make a hole in the tree. (That would make it a weapon or tool, requiring a higher bias intensity.) The problem is, what happens to an object "encased in" the force because it is there at the moment of creation? I could duck the question, by saying that it happens too quickly for him to be certain exactly what happened; but I can think of experiments that would overcome that problem which eventually he would be able to perform, so that's only a delay. I could suggest that the dust is trapped in the force wall, but that makes it a potential holding tool, which would have to be a 10@8 skill. It is not impossible to use a force wall skill to make a prison or box or container, but that is not what this particular skill does. I note, though, that it is possible for psionic force walls to be solid in a single direction, and thus I conclude that it would be possible for such a force wall to be solid when approached from the outside but not from the inside. That will at least interest him, and it is consistent with what I know.

    Kurt is going to shoot Ziggy through the door. The door gives the man cover, 100% area, the density of wood ranging from 1@2 to 1@5. There is also a concealment problem. On the first shot, Kurt will know to within 90% where Ziggy is, but that will be reduced with each additional shot, because Ziggy can and will move (even if he only falls backwards and slumps against the wall). I quick consideration suggests that this is probably a 2" thick hollow wood door, and it will absorb one intensity of whatever damage is done by a bullet. I think, though, that I have some other matters to resolve.

    Harry continues to fight the fire.

    I think Nikolaj's hug is going to be acceptable in the moment, but I want to use a GE roll anyway: 25 means it's not going to fly. He's got another point at which something might happen, and that is that rather complicated question about who did the right thing. It is possible that for a girl her age, the "right" thing would be not to talk to a stranger or put yourself at risk; it is possible that she does not understand the question. I am tempted to roll his English language skill here for whether he is able to communicate this concept to her, but it is not that difficult a communication issue, so I'll roll a GE first and if it's bad we'll go for the language skill check to see if the fault is there. The GE is 12, good enough.

    Scott actually has asked a question that brings back into focus the real horror of this world in which he has been casually meandering: the fact that the police really can know your thoughts, and so really can regulate your private life in ways he will find particularly horrifying. Hey, that's part of why I picked this world for him--it is something he will find completely unacceptable.

    John 2 has selected his target and pulled the trigger. He rolls 14, a base dangerous attack +DC to lethal followed by two dangerous riders. Lethal is 3 intensities, dangerous is 2, so that's 7 total here. It was a bad shot, and 7 intensities doesn't kill anything dangerous. Let's pickup up with second 21:

    1. Derek fires again in the twenty-first second, 14 as an annihilating shot would either finish the one John already hit or wound another, and one second is not enough time for him to have made that decision, so I'll roll a GE: 16 isn't helpful at all, but at this point they'll have at least one reaching them unharmed, so we'll kill the wounded one.
    2. Twenty-two.
    3. Twenty-three.
    4. Twenty-four and Derek fires again, 86, his final shot with this clip, but it counted as nothing could survive that hit at point blank range.

       I need another GE roll for John, because there were two about to arrive in the twenty-fifth second, and Derek killed one. It could be that both were after Derek, that both were targeting John, that Derek killed the one targeting Derek but there is still one targeting John, or that Derek killed the one targeting John but there is still one targeting Derek. The roll is 21, which is bad enough.

    5. It is the twenty-fifth second and one of these monsters is attacking John. It's a little one, but I need numbers from John, so we'll pause here.

    I promised John new use for successfully hitting a target while drifting in a weightless environment, so it's now 1@10 Operate Large hand-carried explosive-driven slug thrower (rifle) T6@1 9mm Carbine +3. One more new use will improve his ability with this weapon markedly, but I really hope this doesn't turn into a "find the new use" game.

    It's time for me to go.

    --M. J. Young

    --M. J. Young

    Mon Jan 25 2010 3:40 am #
32. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    I really hope this doesn't turn into a "find the new use" game.

    Sorry MJ, you're going to be disappointed I think.

    John 2 has selected his target and pulled the trigger. He rolls 14, a base dangerous attack +DC to lethal followed by two dangerous riders. Lethal is 3 intensities, dangerous is 2, so that's 7 total here. It was a bad shot, and 7 intensities doesn't kill anything dangerous. Let's pickup up with second 21:

    I thought we agreed that the gun was not base lethal. Where does the lethal attack come from?

    Mon Jan 25 2010 3:47 am #
33. 

    johnosevens
    Member

    A1nut: It's base Dangerous, +DC to lethal. It's the first thing you quoted.

    Tue Jan 26 2010 4:46 am #
34. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    Yeah, I saw that. What's the +DC? Is it for being at point blank range or what?

    Tue Jan 26 2010 4:53 am #
35. 

    johnosevens
    Member

    I'm not sure, but if the Boss is giving you a +DC, are you really going to ask him where it's been, er, where it came from?

    Tue Jan 26 2010 5:20 am #
36. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    The whole point in playing here is to learn how to play it. I can't exactly learn how to play it if I don't know what something means or why it happened.

    Tue Jan 26 2010 5:27 am #
37. 

    WilliamTWodium
    Member

    What's your strike value, John? If it's 2@, that's good for a damage category bonus. (Point blank range adds a sit-mod, but not a DC.)

    Tue Jan 26 2010 5:42 am #
38. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    Yeah, I have a 2@ RSV. Thanks Scott.

    Tue Jan 26 2010 5:51 am #
39. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Yeah, I mentioned that previously when I was discussing the calculations for your damage, but I guess you missed it.

    I very much regret that it is too late for me to do all the games tonight, particularly as there are some that I am really looking forward to reading; but I am going to tackle the other posts before I call it a night.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Jan 26 2010 7:00 am #
40. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Of course, this is just like me. I have the largest group of players I have had in a long time--

    1. Michael in an illusory world,
    2. Brock spaced out,
    3. Maxx minimized but growing,
    4. Kurt learning under pressure,
    5. Harry in a hot spot,
    6. Scott crossing into new secrets,
    7. Nikolaj saving a world,
    8. John 2 fighting little dragons,
    9. Graeme making magic, and
    10. Ryan Bah Ke'gehn after a long absence,

    and I find myself worrying whether Ahmetia is all right. She probably is; after all, people appear and disappear around here rather freely, and don't always know when they're going to vanish or when they'll be able to return. So I will assume she is well enough, and tackle those who are here.

    Michael had about twenty minutes left on his vacation, so he'll feel it fading soon. I won't snap him back to reality just yet; he does have the option to extend the skill, on a successful roll.

    It is not in Phil's nature to offer assistance and answer involved questions, so Brock is going to have to settle for the affable George for that. We'll go over his plan and give him a few pointers, but I think the next stop will be the planning meeting.

    Maxx is playing with his skills again, so I'll have to give him some answers and ask some questions.

    I probably should have asked Kurt this question before, but it only occurred to me now, and I want to comport with his expectations. If he is "throwing lead", I ignore all the factors involved in strike value, cover value, target value, and simply roll for the operation of the gun, giving him the maximum speed for his shots, and then I use a general effects roll to see what the outcome of him emptying the gun in that direction is, bringing cover and target value back into consideration subjectively. If he is actually aiming and firing, I have to include concealment, cover, target value, and strike value, and limit him to his fire rate on the assumption that after each shot he has to aim the gun again, but a hit is a hit and does the expected damage. It's his call, at least under this circumstance.

    I'll send Harry back inside to do the job he's suggested, and prepare to bring this fire to a denoument.

    As soon as I read Scott's opening line (which I confess was actually during my fly-by last night, when I attempted to get a bit of a glance at everyone's posts so it could cook in my mind overnight) I realized that he had seriously overlooked an aspect of this world: the only people who have psionic abilities are the psi police. There is no law against psionic defenses because no one who could use them expects to need them (at least until they become suspects, at which point they probably have never considered the possibility). So his idea that it's against the law is wrong. There's no law covering it, because it's not known to be possible.

    Nikolaj suggests obliquely that this is a teaching situation, and thus that his teaching skill might be involved. He has a 1@8 SAL and a 1@9 BRA, which gives him a 37% chance of success (probably why it takes so long to teach anyone anything in a low-psi world). He rolls 46, which is not going to work.

    John 2's trench coat is untearable/unpiercable, and so it gives -DC to all attacks. The bite of a small one of these is going to be dangerous+DC to lethal, and so it could break an arm but not through the coat. It could still be pretty serious. I'm thumbnailing here, so I'm going to say that it has a 1@9 MSV, 2@1 BRA, 2@3 SAL, 8@ bod bias (wind gliding), so that's 79% minus John's 1@6 TV is 63% chance that it will connect; he wants to get the bite to land on his arm, so I'll use a 2d10+1 GE for that, as it's pretty easy for him to do, but the beast might read the arm as an attack and avoid it. The attack is 24, which means it bites for 3 intensities. 9 is a decent GE roll, so the arm is the spot. I also have to track what Derek is doing. 24 is a bad roll, which suggests that he is not doing what John would hope he was doing. Derek is changing weapons to the knife, because he's using up ammo fast and is now in close combat. He's got a 2@6 MSV, 2@3 (Tech) BRA, 12@ bias, and 1@10 SAL, so he gets two attacks per minute with this; he'll get one in the remaining half a minute, which we'll put at the half minute mark, figuring he's got six seconds to draw it and get it positioned, which is not unreasonable. That means he attacks at the same moment as John, and at the same moment that the next two beasts arrive. A GE for that, 4, says that the remaining three are going for Derek, and John has the opportunity to fight unassaulted, assuming he kills the one he has. It's also going to mean that the gravity comes on abruptly, which will penalize everyone's next attack -10.

    Derek's attack is 08, so it's not going to be serious--a damaging weapon +DC means he only did one intensity of damage. John's attack roll is 52, the lethal first bullet doing 11 intensities and the two dangerous followers doing 6 each to blow the beast apart.

    Derek's defense is the frying pan, probably about 15% cover at maybe a 4@2 hard metal density, -6. His target value is 1@9, so attacks against him are at -25. (Unlike D&D, the shield can count against all attacks because the probability that it would block any one of them is already incorporated into the amount of protection it affords.) We just calculated an attack probability for a small/mid-sized one of these (the big one here is only a mid-sized one) at 79%, so with that penalty it's 54%, and base dangerous +DC, and there are two rolls immediately, another in ten seconds, which is when John gets his next shot. The rolls now are 77 and 39, that second one biting him for 8 intensities of damage, a rather serious attack, given his 1@10 damage value.

    I laughed heartily when I realized what the last item was on Graeme's list of carved images for his second wand. I'm wondering, though, how to handle this. Technically, the quality of his work should be determined by the relative success of his skill check; but he's planning to spread it over several days. That could mean several skill checks, but it also means a high chance to botch. I'm more inclined to make it one skill check for each wand, and give him a strong sit-mod bonus, maybe +20, for taking his time on it. That gives him 1@2 SAL+36 SM+20SM+2x12@ bias+2@2 BRA, -10 for the delicacy of the work=104% chance of success, and the rolls are for quality, 05, 70. I'm also giving him new use for the carving to 1@3 SAL.

    I'm also getting an 18 GE roll for the events of the next several days.

    Now for Ryan, who has impressed me with his theological insights here. I'll continue the discussion, focusing it back to the question.

    And with that, I have managed to clear the board, I think.

    --M. J. Young

    Wed Jan 27 2010 3:24 am #
41. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    The attack is 24, which means it bites for 3 intensities. 9 is a decent GE roll, so the arm is the spot.

    I thought you just said the dragon couldn't bite through my coat. How did I take damage? Or did I take damage?

    (Doing Therapy)

    Wed Jan 27 2010 6:13 am #
42. 

    WilliamTWodium
    Member

    The teeth can't pierce the coat. The coat sleeve isn't like an iron pipe, though; your arm was still caught in the equivalent of a vise or clamp. You weren't cut, but you were still crunched. (Damage category penalty, which means roughly half damage in this case.)

    Wed Jan 27 2010 6:17 am #
43. 

    WilliamTWodium
    Member

    MJ - it honestly hadn't occurred to me that the police would not be on the lookout for ne'er-do-wells who might have somehow gained access to police-only training/techniques/equipment/what-have-you: spies or terrorist cells or ex-cops gone rogue or whatever. Guns are not for civilian use in Japan, but Japanese civilians still occasionally perform violent crimes armed with guns. The analogy isn't perfect, but neither (in V-me's mind) is it explicit; the assumption is that if the authorities have it or can do it, then the non-authorities are a step or two behind at most.

    I'm usually so open-minded about these things, too. Perhaps my paranoia clouds my judgment.

    Wed Jan 27 2010 6:25 am #
44. 

    JohnA1nut
    Member

    Thanks Scott, you're right. If I hadn't been wearing the coat, it probably would have torn my arm off. I can live with having some bruises instead. This game is easily the most confusing thing I've ever tried to understand.

    I had to reread my game thread a couple of times, I totally misunderstood what was happening. Now I feel stupid for even asking that question.

    Perhaps my paranoia clouds my judgment.

    Welcome to my world Scott.

    (Doing Therapy)

    Wed Jan 27 2010 7:59 am #
45. 

    Brock
    Member

    John-Have you ever considered learning an easier game as a stepping stone to learning this one? Many of us here have played other RPs and learned how systems work, making it easier to understand MV. It's easy to play MV, but learning the rules is a bit of a challenge. I'd say MV is meant for advanced referees.

    About the stopwatch-anathema joke- I meant that the stopwatch is avoiding you like the plague, like you are anathema to it. It keeps disappearing, so it must not want to be around you. I was just personifying it in my joke.

    Wed Jan 27 2010 7:35 pm #

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