Gavin the Vampire--David Marcoe's Variant « Gaming Outpost Discussions

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Gavin the Vampire--David Marcoe's Variant

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Started 4 years ago by Tadeusz
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Tadeusz
Member

One of the beauties of the Multiverser system is that it fully justifies having the same character, but with multiple variants across similar, but not identical timelines. And these variants can add a lot of interest, and uncertainty for the player. And they can hit an unwary player like a rabbit punch out of the blue. Maybe your tough-as-nails dragon-killing, star pilot, and sidekick to a superhero verser is not impressed by being hunted across an island by a madman out for sport. Make that madman a werewolf, or in light of this thread--a vampire, and things change radically. When your 'inescapable' booby trap is evaded by the vampire turning to a bat, and flying above the logs rolling like an avalanche down a hill--then you will know fear and dismay. When you realize that the Great White Hunter with the hounds is really the Fanged Death and the hounds are from Hades, then shock will war with terror in your mind.

Lets see another set of variants.

In one world, Gavin and his vampiric cohorts struggle to corrupt Humanity from Philadelphia in the year 2011. In another world...well, wait and see.

Marcoe's Variant
================
**note: this vampire is not a verser.

Gavin had been a Communist subversive in the US in the 1930s, feeding intelligence to Stalin. He wrote small-time detective fiction which would not have been published except his editor was also a Communist. He joined the CPUSA, sided with the Nazi's until Hitler betrayed Stalin, and invaded Russia. The day after that he joined the cry of the Right in the US to 'do something about Hitler NOW!' Hitler had attacked the Motherland, and Gavin had received his marching orders from the chiefs of the CPUSA. And they were the sort of people who caused 'accidents' to happen if you displeased them.

Fearful, Stalin struck up a deal with a ring of Leningrad based Russian vampires. He supplied them anonymity and protection for their international network, unique resources, and the opportunity to gain "super soldiers" and spies by having them turned. In return, they were supposed to use these for Stalin's benefit.

In the meantime, Gavin had been drafted into the US Army.

Gavin was the only American chosen, as he was already an off-duty bartender at the largest nightclub in Manchester, Britain which in this timeline anyways had a large Army base. He got notice by passing information gleaned off-duty soldiers and civilian employees, and even bringing a couple into an ad hoc spy ring he set up to impress his Soviet bosses.

Once turned, though, he was with the vampires, not the Soviets, which the vampires knew all along would happen. And thus it was to every spy they turned. The vampires extended their own network and infiltrated the Soviet regime. Thus allowing the vampies to pull the strings and protect themselves even further.

Gavin continued to feed information, and began using his abilities to infiltrate the base directly. He gathered even more valuable information and positioned himself to demand a "pay raise." They agreed, and quite gladly, as what he was supplying them they weren't getting anywhere else.

Flush with cash and vampiric abilities, he bought the nightclub and offered as a secure meeting place to local crime bosses (who did a healthy business in gun-running, being near an Army base), along with further protection for their operations. He was true to his word, though he was careful to gather sensitive information from them to protect himself and put them over a barrel, so he could take a slice of their business. With in a matter of months, he was now the head crime boss of the region as the war finally ended.

There had been the matter of blackmailing a general, and killing a too inquisitive captain to avoid D-day, but that was a small matter for one of his abilities.

For several years he kept supplying valuable intel to the Soviets and using the money to expand his criminal empire. He also spent time building up a private army of ghouls and a network of spies and informants. About this time, he began challenging his Russian masters openly. They tipped off a couple of vampire hunters in his area to send a warning to him. When he didn't back down, then sent their best ghoul assassin, "The Cossack."

The Cossack had been recruited, and en-ghouled (a magical transformation process giving great length of life, and power, and corruption, but not neccessarily damnation) during the Napoleonic wars, while serving in a Cossack calvary unit. From that point, he served as a mercenary in every major European conflict through the end of the 1940s, taking the opportunity to recruit other soldiers into his masters' ranks, either as vamps or ghouls.

By this time, Gavin had partnered with an American vampire hoodoo mage who brought his own ghouls with him, in particular, the head of his personal guard, who was an Indian scout turned back in the late 1860s. After his master was killed shortly after his turning, he also plied his trade as a mercenary, serving in dozens of bush wars before coming into the mage's employ. The Cossack came over with a group of handpicked men, very nearly succeeded, but was intercepted and dispatched by the by the Indian ghoul.

This sparked a full scale war between Gavin and the Russians, which he quickly gained victories in, but there was ebb and flow in the conflict over the decades, and subsequent battles cost him dearly. After his organization had reached a zenith in the 1970s, having killed several members of the Russian vampire inner circle, the Russians struck back hard, changing from their careful and secretive tactics to messy attritional warfare. Each victory was simply followed by more attacks and the outer edges of his organization began to fray. By the end of the 1980s, and the fall of the Soviet Union, he had lost nine/tenths of his organization, but the Russian vamps had lost the political patronage that they come to rely on, along with a severe disruption of their financial resources. Being both exhausted from the forty-year war, they came to a truce.

Gavin the Vampire
=================

Persuasion: 2@2 - Having run a criminal empire for seven decades means that people listen to him and his orders get followed.
Charisma: 2@2 - Aided by his inhuman nature, his experience with coaxing secrets and making allies leaves him with a polished image.
Animal Magnetism: 2@1 - Less practiced than other vampires, in seventy years he has still made thorough use of his supernatural sex appeal to bed many women (and a few men).
Strength: 2@10 - It is beyond that of any normal human.
Stamina: 2@10 - The undead do not normally tire.
Resistance: 3@1 - Normally immune to any disease or poison, only radiation has a moderate effect (by attacking the flesh directly), but can be healed by his vampiric abilities.
Density: 1@3
Flexibility: 2@1
Agility: 1@10 - The hundreds of men who have died by his own hand means that he has learned to kill with ease.
Hand/Eye: 1@10
Intelligence: 1@10
Intuition: 2@2 - Decades of experience have taught him to trust his gut and he is rarely wrong.
Willpower: 2@1 - Gifted with a vampire's predatory nature, he loathes to give up his quarry.
Education Level: 2@4 - Seventy years of having his hands in so many pots means that he knows quite a bit about a lot of things.
TV 1@8
DV 2@6
RSV 2@1
MSV 2@4

Skills:

Gavin is a rebel against Lawful Authority and Purity. Therefore symbols of Lawful Authority and Purity repel him. He has to make a Difficult Willpower check to approach them.

Wedding Dresses, Holy Water, and Garlic all act as attacks on contact. Respectively, they do Damaging, Dangerous, and Annoying with Damage Rider of Pain Incapacitation vs. Simple Willpower for all of them. Gavin is permitted a Resistance check to avoid damage, however with Holy Water, he still take Damaging damage. This is a natural effect, and requires no skill roll.

Sunlight is similar. It does Fatal damage every six rounds, but there is no pain incapacitation. In this case, the Sun is a symbol of Lawful Authority, and Purity.

Clear streams, home thresholds, and church property lines all act as barriers. The strength of the barrier is based on a relative success roll between respectively 1. the nearest neighbour to the stream 2. the homeowner 3. the pastor with the defender having a +20 Situation Modifier. The roll is based on Religion skill.

Any Alliance Magic attack that does actual damage does a Lethal damage rider intrinsic.

Writing Psi Skill at 2@1.

Use Teeth to Drink: Bod Skill at 2@5. It starts out as Damaging, but with a 2@ skill it shifts up to Dangerous, and Strength is more than 1@10 so the total attack damage is Dangerous + 5 Damage Point Bonus.

Shapeshift to Bat: Mag Skill at 2@1.

Low-Light Vision: Bod Skill at 2@7.

Heal Self: Mag Skill at 2@1.

Animate Self: Mag Skill at 2@8. This spell is cast on the night preceding the rise. Without it, the vampire will not be able to rise the next day. It requires 1--Coffin (+3 and +2 for bulky), 2--Native Earth in Coffin (+5),3-- Blood of a Human in Body (+7 which is destroyed X2 for +14 for Blood). It must be cast laying down with full body involvement, and arms crossed over chest (+15). 4--It requires eight hours of waiting after it is cast before the animation takes effect (+10).

Thu Nov 8 2007 7:06 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

Clear streams, home thresholds, and church property lines all act as barriers. The strength of the barrier is based on a relative success roll between respectively 1. the nearest neighbour to the stream 2. the homeowner 3. the pastor with the defender having a +20 Situation Modifier.
What is being checked here? Is this an attribute like Willpower, or Religion skill, or something else?

Fri Nov 9 2007 12:08 am #
Tadeusz
Member

Willpower, I think. Because I think it applies even if the homeowner is not Religious. However, you could make a good arguement that it should be Religion...which would have interesting effects.

I am struggling a bit with how to do some of these things. Which probably means I need to get out the book, and wade through it until I actually GET IT. And then repeat a few times until it sticks.

Thanks.

Eric

Fri Nov 9 2007 1:59 am #
david3565
Member

Gavin Stats:

Persuasion: 2@2 - Having run a criminal empire for seven decades means that people listen to him and his orders get followed.
Charisma: 2@2 - Aided by his inhuman nature, his experience with coaxing secrets and making allies leaves him with a polished image.
Animal Magnetism: 2@1 - Less practiced than other vampires, in seventy years he has still made thorough use of his supernatural sex appeal to bed many women (and a few men).
Strength: 2@10 - It is beyond that of any normal human.
Stamina: 2@10 - The undead do not normally tire.
Resistance: 3@1 - Normally immune to any disease or poison, only radiation has a moderate effect (by attacking the flesh directly), but can be healed by his vampiric abilities.
Density: 1@3
Flexibility: 2@1
Agility: 1@10 - The hundreds of men who have died by his own hand means that he has learned to kill with ease.
Hand/Eye: 1@10
Intelligence: 1@10
Intuition: 2@2 - Decades of experience have taught him to trust his gut and he is rarely wrong.
Willpower: 2@1 - Gifted with a vampire's predatory nature, he loathes to give up his quarry.
Education Level: 2@4 - Seventy years of having his hands in so many pots means that he knows quite a bit about a lot of things.

Thu Nov 15 2007 7:44 am #
Tadeusz
Member

Kewl...
I like the explanations, and the bolding.

Thu Nov 15 2007 12:56 pm #
Tadeusz
Member

One of the beauties of the Multiverser system is that it fully justifies having the same character, but with multiple variants across similar, but not identical timelines. And these variants can add a lot of interest, and uncertainty for the player. And they can hit an unwary player like a rabbit punch out of the blue. Maybe your tough-as-nails dragon-killing, star pilot, and sidekick to a superhero verser is not impressed by being hunted across an island by a madman out for sport. Make that madman a werewolf, or in light of this thread--a vampire, and things change radically. When your 'inescapable' booby trap is evaded by the vampire turning to a bat, and flying above the logs rolling like an avalanche down a hill--then you will know fear and dismay. When you realize that the Great White Hunter with the hounds is really the Fanged Death and the hounds are from Hades, then shock will war with terror in your mind.

Lets see another set of variants.

In one world, Gavin and his vampiric cohorts struggle to corrupt Humanity from Philadelphia in the year 2011. In another world...well, wait and see.

Marcoe's Variant
================
**note: this vampire is not a verser.

Gavin had been a Communist subversive in the US in the 1930s, feeding intelligence to Stalin. He wrote small-time detective fiction which would not have been published except his editor was also a Communist. He joined the CPUSA, sided with the Nazi's until Hitler betrayed Stalin, and invaded Russia. The day after that he joined the cry of the Right in the US to 'do something about Hitler NOW!' Hitler had attacked the Motherland, and Gavin had received his marching orders from the chiefs of the CPUSA. And they were the sort of people who caused 'accidents' to happen if you displeased them.

Fearful, Stalin struck up a deal with a ring of Leningrad based Russian vampires. He supplied them anonymity and protection for their international network, unique resources, and the opportunity to gain "super soldiers" and spies by having them turned. In return, they were supposed to use these for Stalin's benefit.

In the meantime, Gavin had been drafted into the US Army.

Gavin was the only American chosen, as he was already an off-duty bartender at the largest nightclub in Manchester, Britain which in this timeline anyways had a large Army base. He got notice by passing information gleaned off-duty soldiers and civilian employees, and even bringing a couple into an ad hoc spy ring he set up to impress his Soviet bosses.

Once turned, though, he was with the vampires, not the Soviets, which the vampires knew all along would happen. And thus it was to every spy they turned. The vampires extended their own network and infiltrated the Soviet regime. Thus allowing the vampies to pull the strings and protect themselves even further.

Gavin continued to feed information, and began using his abilities to infiltrate the base directly. He gathered even more valuable information and positioned himself to demand a "pay raise." They agreed, and quite gladly, as what he was supplying them they weren't getting anywhere else.

Flush with cash and vampiric abilities, he bought the nightclub and offered as a secure meeting place to local crime bosses (who did a healthy business in gun-running, being near an Army base), along with further protection for their operations. He was true to his word, though he was careful to gather sensitive information from them to protect himself and put them over a barrel, so he could take a slice of their business. With in a matter of months, he was now the head crime boss of the region as the war finally ended.

There had been the matter of blackmailing a general, and killing a too inquisitive captain to avoid D-day, but that was a small matter for one of his abilities.

For several years he kept supplying valuable intel to the Soviets and using the money to expand his criminal empire. He also spent time building up a private army of ghouls and a network of spies and informants. About this time, he began challenging his Russian masters openly. They tipped off a couple of vampire hunters in his area to send a warning to him. When he didn't back down, then sent their best ghoul assassin, "The Cossack."

The Cossack had been recruited, and en-ghouled (a magical transformation process giving great length of life, and power, and corruption, but not neccessarily damnation) during the Napoleonic wars, while serving in a Cossack calvary unit. From that point, he served as a mercenary in every major European conflict through the end of the 1940s, taking the opportunity to recruit other soldiers into his masters' ranks, either as vamps or ghouls.

By this time, Gavin had partnered with an American vampire hoodoo mage who brought his own ghouls with him, in particular, the head of his personal guard, who was an Indian scout turned back in the late 1860s. After his master was killed shortly after his turning, he also plied his trade as a mercenary, serving in dozens of bush wars before coming into the mage's employ. The Cossack came over with a group of handpicked men, very nearly succeeded, but was intercepted and dispatched by the by the Indian ghoul.

This sparked a full scale war between Gavin and the Russians, which he quickly gained victories in, but there was ebb and flow in the conflict over the decades, and subsequent battles cost him dearly. After his organization had reached a zenith in the 1970s, having killed several members of the Russian vampire inner circle, the Russians struck back hard, changing from their careful and secretive tactics to messy attritional warfare. Each victory was simply followed by more attacks and the outer edges of his organization began to fray. By the end of the 1980s, and the fall of the Soviet Union, he had lost nine/tenths of his organization, but the Russian vamps had lost the political patronage that they come to rely on, along with a severe disruption of their financial resources. Being both exhausted from the forty-year war, they came to a truce.

Gavin the Vampire
=================

Persuasion: 2@2 - Having run a criminal empire for seven decades means that people listen to him and his orders get followed.
Charisma: 2@2 - Aided by his inhuman nature, his experience with coaxing secrets and making allies leaves him with a polished image.
Animal Magnetism: 2@1 - Less practiced than other vampires, in seventy years he has still made thorough use of his supernatural sex appeal to bed many women (and a few men).
Strength: 2@10 - It is beyond that of any normal human.
Stamina: 2@10 - The undead do not normally tire.
Resistance: 3@1 - Normally immune to any disease or poison, only radiation has a moderate effect (by attacking the flesh directly), but can be healed by his vampiric abilities.
Density: 1@3
Flexibility: 2@1
Agility: 1@10 - The hundreds of men who have died by his own hand means that he has learned to kill with ease.
Hand/Eye: 1@10
Intelligence: 1@10
Intuition: 2@2 - Decades of experience have taught him to trust his gut and he is rarely wrong.
Willpower: 2@1 - Gifted with a vampire's predatory nature, he loathes to give up his quarry.
Education Level: 2@4 - Seventy years of having his hands in so many pots means that he knows quite a bit about a lot of things.
TV 1@8
DV 2@6
RSV 2@1
MSV 2@4

Skills:

Gavin is a rebel against Lawful Authority and Purity. Therefore symbols of Lawful Authority and Purity repel him. He has to make a Difficult Willpower check to approach them.

Wedding Dresses, Holy Water, and Garlic all act as attacks on contact. Respectively, they do Damaging, Dangerous, and Annoying with Damage Rider of Pain Incapacitation vs. Simple Willpower for all of them. Gavin is permitted a Resistance check to avoid damage, however with Holy Water, he still take Damaging damage. This is a natural effect, and requires no skill roll.

Sunlight is similar. It does Fatal damage every six rounds, but there is no pain incapacitation. In this case, the Sun is a symbol of Lawful Authority, and Purity.

Clear streams, home thresholds, and church property lines all act as barriers. The strength of the barrier is based on a relative success roll between respectively 1. the nearest neighbour to the stream 2. the homeowner 3. the pastor with the defender having a +20 Situation Modifier. The roll is based on Religion skill.

Any Alliance Magic attack that does actual damage does a Lethal damage rider intrinsic.

Writing Psi Skill at 2@1.

Use Teeth to Drink: Bod Skill at 2@5. It starts out as Damaging, but with a 2@ skill it shifts up to Dangerous, and Strength is more than 1@10 so the total attack damage is Dangerous + 5 Damage Point Bonus.

Shapeshift to Bat: Mag Skill at 2@1.

Low-Light Vision: Bod Skill at 2@7.

Heal Self: Mag Skill at 2@1.

Animate Self: Mag Skill at 2@8. This spell is cast on the night preceding the rise. Without it, the vampire will not be able to rise the next day. It requires 1--Coffin (+3 and +2 for bulky), 2--Native Earth in Coffin (+5),3-- Blood of a Human in Body (+7 which is destroyed X2 for +14 for Blood). It must be cast laying down with full body involvement, and arms crossed over chest (+15). 4--It requires eight hours of waiting after it is cast before the animation takes effect (+10).

Thu Nov 15 2007 4:26 pm #
Tadeusz
Member

Weird. I edited the original post to add David's material, and a bit of other stuff, and posted it. The original post dissappeared.

I reposted it with a copy, and this time the repost, and the original appeared.

....scratches head....

Eric

Thu Nov 15 2007 4:29 pm #
Tadeusz
Member

In any case, Marcoe's Variant is closer to completion. Still have some bits here and there to do.

Thu Nov 15 2007 4:30 pm #
Tadeusz
Member

Would a 'magical allergy' to the touch of a wedding dress work in a low magic world? Gavin's body has been changed by magic, so it would be inherent to his body to be affected by this.

This could be explained by mental effects on his own body, but then that leaves open the question of what happens if a wedding dress touches him, and he is not aware of it?

I think I can simply say its inherent to his body, but for holy water and for wedding dresses he has to be aware of it.....then you could argue that if he took enough taste and smell disrupting drugs, he could eat garlic because it would have no taste. And that its the sight and/or feel of sun on his skin that triggers the allergic reaction so if he were closely blindfolded, and walked out into winter sunlight he might not burn...

Hmmmmmm....On the other hand...I don't know...

Thu Nov 15 2007 5:01 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

I'm not sure why, but I can't see the first post in this thread. Is anyone else having this problem?

Thu Nov 15 2007 8:39 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Eric apparently posted something that the system flagged as possible Spam, and it caused the software to put many of his posts on hold until someone could check them; I've been clearing them all afternoon.

It happens once in a while, and it may be that it had something to do with interaction with a Spam poster putting a lot of stuff about CD Keys on the threads, which are Spam and have to be deleted individually.

How low a mag bias do you want for this? Here's one solution. The process of turning him into a vampire includes a M1@8 Curse. The nature of the curse is that he will suffer damage upon contact with a list of objects that are in one way or another connected to holiness--the light of the sun (but not other light), the wedding dress, holy water. You then figure out "who" put this curse on him, work up their numbers--SAL, BRA, bias--and get a number.

Let's assume that all such damage is base damaging, and that the RF for continuous contact is 5 (once per twelve seconds). If the caster of the curse is 2@ SAL, that makes it 10, and if 3@ it's 15. Thus, whenever the victim of the curse--the vampire--is touched by any of these things, a roll is made, once every twelve, or six, or four, seconds. If the roll is successful, it is the damage done; if it is not successful, the victim took no damage on that roll.

If your vampire is capable of versing, then the chance of damage being done would be reduced by a bias level lower than that of the original caster; if the curve falls below 9, the curse doesn't work, and these things do not harm him in that world.

Does that fit your ideas?

--M. J. Young

Thu Nov 15 2007 10:00 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

The alternative to the curse is a M15@7 Permanently Change Life Form. This could give him body-based allergies, which would function independently of the magic bias. It would also run in to several of the problems you bring up. It would work fine for garlic (whether he was aware of the garlic or not), but unless all wedding dresses are made from a special fabric unique to wedding dresses, it wouldn't work for them. You'd end up using the curse for some things and the bod-based solution for others.

I think MJ's solution is better overall, but I thought I'd point out an alternative (magical origin of a subsequently purely-physical affliction, not unlike having been transformed into a toad).

Fri Nov 16 2007 1:00 am #
Tadeusz
Member

As an inherent part of becoming a vampire, Gavin was cursed by the process. His sire was an ancient being of great power with a 1@10 SAL or skill in Creating Vampires. The reason its so low is that such a skill is not used very often. His sire's BRA for this is Willpower which is 2@5. The world is a very high magic world so 15@10 is the world's bias.

The curse is a M1@8 Curse. Symbols of purity such as sunlight (but not other light), wedding dresses, and garlic damage him if they contact him.

more later

Sat Nov 17 2007 2:36 am #
Tadeusz
Member

NOTE: It would be good in the Vampire Agglom to have a short discussion on which vampires can verse, and why, and which vampires cannot verse, and why not.

His sire also has 15@1 Temporarily Alter Normal Abilities which he uses to boost his own strength after drinking blood. So the world bias and his bias are basically the same number, for the purpose of skill calculations.

M 1@8 Curse (which is part of his particular kind of vampirism): If he is contacted by a symbol of purity such as Sunlight, a Wedding Dress, or Garlic, then he is attacked by SAL +20 BRA +25 Bias +30 = 75% chance of Damaging category damage in his original world. RF 5.

As MJ said: If your vampire is capable of versing (Marcoe Variant-Gavin is capable of versing, but he is not scriff infected yet), then the chance of damage being done would be reduced by a bias level lower than that of the original caster; if the curve falls below 9, the curse doesn't work, and these things do not harm him in that world.

Sat Nov 17 2007 5:37 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

NOTE: It would be good in the Vampire Agglom to have a short discussion on which vampires can verse, and why, and which vampires cannot verse, and why not.

The current mental draft raises the issue in the intro, then addresses it individually for each type in a subsection. Each type gets a write-up that includes the NPC and subsections covering everything I can think of that's relevant to running that type of vampire in a game - The Idea, How It Plays, Example Character, Passing it On, Verser?, and any others that jump out at me once I write the thing and see what information starts falling through the cracks.

I've had some connectivity issues these past few days, but those seem to have resolved themselves, and on Monday one the the more significant, consistent claims on my time will go away, so I might have something to show you soon in the way of rough draft of a section or two or possibly an opening. (Soon is highly relative.)

I'm going to note as an aside that Gavin, with his 2@ DV, is taking at most two intensities per twelve seconds in sunlight, meaning he can last a minimum of two minutes and potentially much longer - if he has to.

Sat Nov 17 2007 6:34 pm #
Tadeusz
Member

OK. And I understand on the 'soon'. I've had some projects in teh works for years. I think this is an issue nearly every creative sort struggles with.

Considering what you said, I think Gavin's sire should be upgraded to a 2@1 SAL so that the damage frequency can go up. A minute and maybe longer is not so bad. After all, there are some vampires that can resist a lot....and let me tell you... I played in MJ's Philadelphia game against Gavin and Jackson (his more powerful, but dumber partner) and they were Powerful.

I zapped Jackson with a hundred kilowatt electric line, and he regarded it as a bee sting. That was not a happy moment for me.

Sat Nov 17 2007 6:41 pm #
johnosevens
Member

Is it just me, or is it impossible for a Verser to become undead after he has become a Verser?
(I apologise if there are already rules for this - being a broke college kid I can't afford the book yet.)

It seems to me that Versers cannot become undead. The reason for this is simple. In order to become undead, you first have to die, then you have to un-die. If you do this in the normal way (getting drained to death by a wraith, chomped by a vampire, or undergoing a Death Knight ritual, for instance) you die, Verse out to a new world, and one of two things happens: either the ritual doesn't come with you (leaving you alive on the other side) or the ritual does come with you, but since you Verse in fully restored, the part of the ritual that was supposed to un-kill you simply fails, as your corpse isn't there to reanimate.

That said, certain kinds of undeath may still be a viable route for the truly determined Verser, specifically those that can un-kill you without killing you first. "WTF?" I hear you say, "How can this be?" Think about the Ringwraiths. For all intents and purposes, they are undead, but they never died to get that way. They were simply alive, got corrupted over time, and had their living natures replaced with undead natures in due time, having never done that pesky dying thing in between.

On still a third hand (what do you want, I'm from NJ) it SHOULD be possible for someone to become a Verser who is already undead. After all, Vampires and the like are not immune to being electrocuted to death, or most other forms of bodily slaughter, so exposure to liquid Scriff should still be enough to flash-fry your favorite gothy beasty and send him hurtling through the blind eternities without delay.

Sat Nov 17 2007 7:43 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Harry, that's a big debate, and you've pretty much nailed it.

One of the possibilities is what might be called a tech zombie--the sort from that video game cum movie in which some virus or chemical has caused humans to mutate into seemingly mindless zombie-like beings who eat flesh and spread their infection to others. This would be a disease that mimicked the undead, but the question then becomes what it takes to be cured of it.

Your Ringwraiths example is a good one; the question, though, is whether the person passes through death to wind up on the other side, and if so, it's not possible for the verser. Since Tolkien didn't need to address that, each referee could make up his own answer.

--M. J. Young

Mon Nov 19 2007 12:22 am #
johnosevens
Member

I don't mean to derail this topic, which is obviously about one specific character concept, by belaboring this debate. If it becomes ponderous I'll gladly take it elsewhere.

I just want to take a moment to counter M.J.'s argument. Sorry, chief, but the Rage virus (or any other techno-organic undeath simulator) is a false premise. It /simulates/ undeath, but doesn't /create/ undeath. A persistent coma is very much /like/ being dead, but won't cause you to Verse out, nor cause your wife to inherit your loot. Likewise, being infected with Rage doesn't actually /make/ you a zombie, and the virus from... I believe you're referring to Resident Evil... actually does either kill you, or trigger upon death (in the movie the one girl only became a zombie when the virus killed her), so you would Verse out and theoretically land virus-free. Neither is the makings of an undead Verser.

Tue Nov 20 2007 12:27 am #
WilliamTWodium
Member

Neither is the makings of an undead Verser.

I think that was the point - this would be "a disease that mimicked the undead," and not actually a way for a living verser to become undead. I would have commented earlier that you summed up the issue of versing undead completely and correctly in your post, but MJ beat me to it. No one actually disagreed with you.

That said, whether or not something is "really" undead only matters in a few specific circumstances, that is, in those situations where something's undeadness is a crucial factor. The rest of the time, a vampire is a vampire and a zombie a zombie, and the question of "did it die and then un-die" has no relevance on the effectiveness of your wooden stake, sprig of garlic, or shotgun to the head.

Eric and I are actually currently collaborating on a list of various vampiric types. (Click on the "vampires" tag at the top of this thread for a complete list of the discussions, if you're interested.) A verser could become a wholly magical vampire, a sympire, or a mad-science vampire; the nature of scriff-infection would prevent him from becoming a Marcoe vampire or a Whedon-esque one (where your corpse is animated by the spirit of a demon who thinks he's you). The nature of the type prevents any human being from becoming a Fallen or an Alien vampire without first ceasing to be human, but since a verser is capable of losing his humanity without losing his life, that could be done; however, a verser who becomes a wholly supernatural being would cease to be a verser (I think; MJ's the expert).

It's worth noting that any of those (besides the Fallen) could be become a verser, regardless of whether a living verser could join their ranks.
_

Tad, remind me to post about possession-based vampires, and particularly about soul-fission as a vector for vampirism. (While a verser may never become a ghost animating his dead body, he most certainly may become a spirit animating someone else's dead body. Holy technicalities of scriff-infected equipment, Batman!)

Tue Nov 20 2007 1:03 am #
Tadeusz
Member

Ok, I'll remind you in a day or two.

Are you changing the name from 'Venompire' to 'Sympire'? Although I also like the name "Wodium's Wamphyre"----I think that some things have multiple names. So the true name would be what you chose, but among some versers it would be known as 'WW' because in a bit of future story for your character, you'd be the first verser to encounter such, and tell these other versers about the experience....so when they talked about vamp-hunting with each other it'd be like.."Yeah, and you gotta watch out for those vamps the Discordian Pope ran into..." Other verser..."Wodium's Wamphyres?" First verser "Yeah, those ones."

I also have the 'Bunnicula' inspired Vampire Plague which I need to stat up. And then there's the Faux vampires. And the Mechanical vampires are another.

I don't think I've come up with a conception for an alien vampire? Maybe you have, Wodium?

John7, I welcome new vampire types in that they have different causes, or if you want to stat up a vamp of a type thats already been discussed (we can always use more characters after all.)

We don't have a vamp that can change into a bat. We don't have a vamp (except for the Mad-Science one, who is good.)

We don't have something like the Phillipines vampire which is a flying head. But thats a little far afield. Mostly we've focused on different causes of vampirism, and trying to get one or two of a type. Later, we might go back and revisit Magic Vampires, and try to make a half-dozen vampires from various parts of the world.

Of course, we're working on a lot of different projects on this website, and I'd be happy to help you find a way to pitch in to what level you're interested in.

Also, Wodium, would something like an Angel situation work...which might be what you're kinda thinking on already....verser soul goes into bottle, body gets turned into a vampire, later verser soul escapes and reunites with body, and kicks out possessing demon.

Tue Nov 20 2007 1:48 am #
WilliamTWodium
Member

Are you changing the name from 'Venompire' to 'Sympire'?

I've just been referring to them by whatever handle seemed handy. I feel odd referring to the things by my own name, but naturally that doesn't stop anyone else from doing it. Maybe an adjective, like we're using for the others? "Infested vampires," to match "magical" or "possessed" or "faux." It isn't enough to say Bod-Based, because the alien vampires are likely to rely heavily on Bod as well, just like your Mad Science vampire. "Infested" gets across the idea of tiny parasites without being verbose.

I don't think I've come up with a conception for an alien vampire? Maybe you have, Wodium?

I do, actually. It was on your list (#8), so I assumed you had one in the works somewhere, but I got to thinking about it on my own and came up with something sufficiently distinct from my other idea involving weird organisms. I don't have a single character in mind - rather, the write-up would point out several areas with potential for variation while focusing on commonalities within the "type" - but I could whip one up to be consistent with your material. It'll be easy once I've hammered out the template.

We don't have a vamp that can change into a bat.

Don't we? Surely Dawkins or Gavin could figure it out if they wanted to. I don't see that as something particular to a type. It's more like a detail, a "yes" or "no" for individual vampires (or classes of vampires) within the types that use magic.

Tue Nov 20 2007 4:25 am #
WilliamTWodium
Member

And goodness, I almost missed something I really wanted to talk about:

Considering what you said [about how long Gavin can survive in sunlight], I think Gavin's sire should be upgraded to a 2@1 SAL [at creating vampires] so that the damage frequency can go up.

Does this seem backwards to anyone else? That the better he gets at making vampires, the more vulnerable they are to sunlight? I understand that a more skilled caster can generate a more powerful curse, but that mechanic seems to be doing the wrong thing here. The problem is that Gavin's sire isn't trying to Curse Gavin; he's trying to transform Gavin into another kind of creature, and the curse is an unavoidable side effect. We need a workaround.

Can we treat the curse as a drawback (sort of like a ritual penalty or decrease in the spell's effectiveness) rather than as an incorporated skill? If we do that, do we have the curse be more potent at the amateur level and decrease in severity as the SAL rises, or does it have a consistent effect regardless of SAL?

Tue Nov 20 2007 4:48 am #
Tadeusz
Member

I want to toss this question to MJ. I have an opinion, but its somewhat unformed, and not very knowledgeable.

And I look forward to seeing your Trekkie-Predator vampire with skills adaptable to various biases (that last bit is the most interesting part--not sure how you're going to do that.)

And woohooo! This project is almost done at least from my end. Still have to figure out the Sun Attacks part, and do a bit on the Fallen Angel, and the Mechanovamps.

I think it might be ok to have Gavin have the bat transformation ability. If its not OK with David, we can do it for Devlin instead.

Tue Nov 20 2007 6:14 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Best work-around I can think of is to suggest that the curse was cast by someone else, and although the caster of the spell that converts the target into a vampire is the senior vampire, the caster of the curse is that other caster millennia ago who drove vampires into the darkness by cursing their sire.

Thus you would have to determine the efficacy of that curse based on that caster's ability, and then have it carry automatically as a rider on the other spell. All vampires would then have the same penalties to those holy objects.

--M. J. Young

Tue Nov 20 2007 7:45 am #
david3565
Member

I think it might be ok to have Gavin have the bat transformation ability. If its not OK with David, we can do it for Devlin instead.

Actually, I see him more as a dog, which if memory serves, is what Bram Stoker has his vampires transforming into, along with bats. It also happens to be an animal form more common to the Romanian legends from which classic vampires are derived (again, if I'm remembering correctly).

It also seems more fitting to Gavin's personality. He's predatory, but cunning, like a wolf. With it, he can use keen senses to hunt, or use the form to distract or lure people in accordance with his plans.

Tue Nov 20 2007 8:58 am #
Tadeusz
Member

Change to Wolfhound: Temporarily Change Lifeform M 15@6. Character does not lose any skills or attributes, but may gain skills and attributes he did not already possess.
Time Factor: Fifteen Seconds (which is from a baseline of four minutes so four halvings)-40 Sit-mod. Action: To Wolfhound, get down on the ground on all fours. Full involvement +15. Language: Speak in Latin "Let my body become as the wolfhound." (Apropriate +5). SAL 2@2.

To change back, the wolfhound stands on its hindlegs, and tries to whine "Let my body be as a man." in Latin.

Stats are the same in both forms.

Skills:
-------

Run at Traffic Speed is a B 3@8 skill he has at 2@2 SAL.
Track by Scent is a B O@1 Gas and Particulate Sensitivity skill he has at 1@8.
Bite for Dangerous damage is a Martial Arts Weapon skill of 7@1 he uses when he bites with his teeth with 2@5 SAL.
Intensified Damage with Bite is a -10 SM Intensified Damage skill the he uses to up the damage to Lethal from his bite. He has it at skill 1@10.
High Jump is a B 5@3 skill he has at 2@1 SAL.
Broad Jump is a B 5@4 skii he has at 2@5 SAL.

OK, except for MJ's revision of the curse, I think this is it.

Tue Nov 20 2007 5:30 pm #
Tadeusz
Member

The curse....

In pre-history, a man stood up and chose murder and not only murder, but terror to achieve dominance without right. The Creator saw that this genius at evil would change all history for the worse, and this could not be stopped without taking away free will. But the cost of such an an action could be made clear, and those who did so could be clearly labelled as outside the human community which would make them targets to all just men, and stand as warning against taking their path.

And thus He spoke to the first Terrorist.

"You are cursed, and dammed for your evil you have done to those who stand at peace with you. And those who follow you into this darkness will be cursed as well."

And then the first vampire ran for the shelter of a cave from the painful fury of the Sun. His thoughts were not of grief at his sin, or even his own pain, but of outrage that the Creator dared to speak so to him.

And thus was the first vampire made for even then he might have repented, but he chose pride before virtue.

BRA 3@10, and SAL 3@10 (naturally) in a 15@10 bias world is the details of the curse.

Mon Dec 3 2007 1:53 am #

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