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Maxximum Reality: Maxx Starts Play

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Started 2 years ago by M. J. Young
Latest reply from WilliamTWodium

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WilliamTWodium
Member

Scott, if I'm reading him aright, it sounds to me like he wants to use the chemical energy like rocket fuel to power his temporal journey to the past, but power it remotely such that the energy is all directed into the time travel trip but the waste product remains in its location in what will then be the future.

I had similar thoughts earlier, but I was thrown off by his statement that he had no intention of effecting a change in the matter. Now it appears he intends to draw the affected matter back into the past with him, and also that the matter be inert when he arrives. Actually, scratch that; I guess he's suggesting that that's one way it could work, but the way he would prefer it to work is that the matter to become inert but not to make the trip.

What I find more difficult is the notion of using the energy for time travel, since psionic time travel doesn't use much energy at all and he is not attempting technological time travel.

Perhaps it doesn't, but he imagines it does, and in connection with that I observe two things: first, that once you get into the tip-top bias levels in the psi area, the imagination becomes very important to both the effect and the execution; and second, that it quite possible for Maxx to be mistaken about how he is doing what he does (or even about what he is doing).

Thus, he begins with his surroundings transformed into a mixture of two volatile substances, ready to explode.

Next, he travels back in time, and his transmuted, volatile surroundings become inert (for no reason apparent to the casual observer), reaching such a state as it would have been in had it been allowed to explode (and left for several hours thereafter to cool).

Finally, he arrives in the past.

I believe that to be an adequate description of the results Maxx intends. There is no reason that is has to happen for the reasons that he imagines it to happen. He imagines he cannot travel back in time without an energy source, so he alters reality (preventing an explosion) and imagines that the change in potential energy has provided him with the power necessary to travel through time; armed with this confidence, he proceeds to travel through time.

I think I'll combine the P14@7 Transmute Matter with the P14@10 Time Travel into a single skill, but allow that the explosive target material acts as a mental focus for the time travel aspect, providing a +10 sit-mod which cancels out the -10 combination penalty. +10 for an extra minute's concentration, - some value for quantity of material and difficulty of the job; +2 because his character bias is P15@2, +15 for world bias, +20 for his BRA comes to less than or equal to 47%, the roll is 63, failed.

Just as well. I never asked how far back he expected to travel, and I'm not sure whether or not his body would have come with him. I'm thinking so?

Sat Jun 12 2010 10:28 am #
WilliamTWodium
Member

Two minutes apparently wasn't enough time. It's tricky to mess with matter while you're temporally dilated relative to it, and it's also tricky to move through time while you're slowing it down for yourself. You thought you were ready to try this after two (apparent) minutes, but it seems you weren't ready after all. Nothing happened.

Sat Jun 12 2010 10:35 am #
Max
Member

I never asked how far back he expected to travel

The limit of the time travel would be Morach's conception day or when Morach is still in zygote state. That is why the body does not have to come along. The maximum GE roll for damage and area would equal to this. The skill roll would then apply the percentage of the energy converted. The time of arrival could be calculated by using the formula:
Time arrive = Time depart - (Duration existed)*(RS/100)*(Damage*Area)/(Max Damage*Max Area)

Two minutes apparently wasn't enough time.

I will try to concentrate three apparent minutes and try again.

Sat Jun 12 2010 12:41 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

The limit of the time travel would be Morach's conception day or when Morach is still in zygote state. That is why the body does not have to come along.

Are you deliberately trying to leave your body behind, or is this just how you expect it to work?

The maximum GE roll for damage and area would equal to this. The skill roll would then apply the percentage of the energy converted. The time of arrival could be calculated by using the formula:
Time arrive = Time depart - (Duration existed)*(RS/100)*(Damage*Area)/(Max Damage*Max Area)

No can do. You have no idea of how powerful the explosion would be, and you're in control of how far you go back.

I get the impression that you're going back as far as you can, but that you imagine you can't go any farther back than your conception. If we say that a successful 100 will take you back to the moment of conception and that lesser rolls take you to later points as determined by relative success, would that work for you?

__
I've already rolled, but we need to clear these questions up first. MJ: Am I correct in thinking that a verser whose spirit would be permanently separated from his body instead verses out? I come to this conclusion because irrevocable separation would result in the death of the body, for which the spirit is defined as equipment.

Sat Jun 12 2010 10:16 pm #
Max
Member

Are you deliberately trying to leave your body behind, or is this just how you expect it to work?

I expect that is the way my skill works although it may work in similar ways.
Morach would probably know more about the skills than I am.

If we say that a successful 100 will take you back to the moment of conception and that lesser rolls take you to later points as determined by relative success, would that work for you?

That is fine with me.

Sat Jun 12 2010 10:29 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

It's "than I do." He is more knowledgeable than you are (or than "I am"), but he knows more than you do. "Do" is a dummy verb standing in for "know," and it's only real purpose in the sentence is to carry the tense. In fact, it can left out ("he knows more than I"), but I think that's going out of style.

But I agree, he does. I'm going to hold off on this until I get an answer back from MJ about whether or not doing this would kill you, and when it would kill you. Then I'll think about whether or not Morach would know whether or not it would kill him.

Sat Jun 12 2010 10:47 pm #
Max
Member

It's "than I do." In fact, it can left out ("he knows more than I"), but I think that's going out of style.

Thank you for the language lesson. After I re-read it, the sentence does sounds weird.

But I agree, he does. I'm going to hold off on this until I get an answer back from MJ about whether or not doing this would kill you, and when it would kill you.

I think the body that is left in the future would be fine as long as the time traveler spirit came back to it after the travel is over but I could be wrong.

Sat Jun 12 2010 11:02 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

Under replacement theory, it's not "left in the future;" it's non-existent. When you arrive at point C, your body does not exist.

A younger version of you exists (at point C); that younger version of you has a younger version of your body. It is not your body.

Thus, if you traveled back in time, you would be a disembodied spirit, which I think is something versers cannot be due to their scriff infection. The possibility that the younger version of you might travel back in time without his body, leaving behind a vacant body that you would then have the opportunity to possess, does not change the fact that your own body would have already ceased to exist.

Perhaps MJ would allow this, saying that it still is your body regardless of the fact that your spirit has been temporally duplicated. The possibility that he would allow it is the reason I'm not proceeding with the game just yet; he's the authority on both pertinent subjects (time travel and disembodied versers).

Sun Jun 13 2010 12:47 am #
Max
Member

Perhaps MJ would allow this, saying that it still is your body regardless of the fact that your spirit has been temporally duplicated. The possibility that he would allow it is the reason I'm not proceeding with the game just yet; he's the authority on both pertinent subjects (time travel and disembodied versers).

Both of that subjects will be a bit complicated if it is mix with each other. I have a couple of assumptions which I hope will help.
If the body will automatically go with the spirit as equipment, then even if Morach try to leave it in the future the body will come along but not because of Morach specifically target it to come along but because the scriff follows the spirit.
If however, the time is undone because this is "real" time travel and not parallel world, then Morach body is still his even if the spirit is temporally duplicated.

Morach also does not have any knowledge of scriff infection so probably he would not target the body specifically. I also am not sure if Morach body is scriff infected due to it able to grow up. I think in that world, only Morach spirit is the verser and the body is the equipment but it would not be scriff infected until Morach verse out from that world. Well, that is only my theory of course.

Sun Jun 13 2010 12:30 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

From Scott:

MJ: Am I correct in thinking that a verser whose spirit would be permanently separated from his body instead verses out? I come to this conclusion because irrevocable separation would result in the death of the body, for which the spirit is defined as equipment.

It took me a bit more reading to grasp why you thought this, but I gather it's because the body at point B ceases ever to have existed and thus the spirit at point C ceases ever to have existed. But that doesn't happen until point D, and thus the spirit can exist up until the moment the body is destroyed, which happens to be the same moment that the spirit should depart from the future. If the CD version of Morach were unaffected by anything done by the AB version of Morach's spirit (which I consider improbable) he would do exactly what Maxx did, including becoming non-corporeal and causing the explosion by the botch which is about to happen, and then attempting as he is to defuse the energy and travel to the past. At that point, the spirit of CD Maxx replaces the spirit of AB Maxx, and since the two are indistinguishable the CD Maxx indistinguishably replaces the AB Maxx and the character has no disruption of consciousness. If, though, the AB Maxx spirit changes anything at all that in any way influences the CD Maxx or his environment (note that his defusing of the explosive matter is an act that will have to be confirmed by his CD counterpart, and not a change in the CD history but a confirmation of an event in the AB history by the CD Maxx) then at point D the AB Maxx ceases ever to have existed and the player will have to be instructed that he has no memories of the AB timeline but only remembers being the CD character. At the moment that player character Maxx does something that does impact CD Maxx (you can use GE rolls for incidental impact where there is reason to question whether or not such impact might occur) you'll have to take control of CD Maxx and determine what he would do based on the changes AB Maxx has introduced. You would also have to consider which of the skills Maxx (1) learned during this time were never learned by Maxx (2) because he never attempted them, and you would be justified in re-rolling skill attempts and skill learning attempts for any skill in which you believe that Maxx (2) would try to repeat the acts of Maxx (1) but the conditions have changed sufficiently that the success is not ensured by the rule that the CD timeline is the first time for everyone native to the CD timeline so it happens as it did except as influenced by the time traveler. That is, if what Maxx (1) did would not have prevented Maxx (2) from attempting the same thing at the same time, but might have slightly altered the conditions under which he is attempting it, you can roll for what happens this time, bearing in mind that if he doesn't get to the time travel point on schedule he probably creates an infinity loop, and then you're looking at a verser who needs to be rescued by someone from outside the universe. I mentioned this somewhere in another thread.

I would normally agree that the body without the spirit is dead, as scripture says; but in Multiverser it is possible for the spirit to be separated from the body with no certain return time. It happens, for example, when an invader traps the target's spirit in a jar and possesses the body, and it logically can happen if the spirit is jarred and the body left empty. The argument against your position is that there is no indication that the spirit has been "permanently" separated from the body--it may be only a matter of time.

On the other hand, if the explosion is not averted and the body is destroyed/killed in it, then the spirit and body verse together. That does not mean that they are reunited in the process (might be, but unlikely), but rather that a comatose body arrives in the new world, and the spirit also arrives at the same distance from the body as the body. You can make that a temporal distance as well, that the spirit arrives first, if you choose to do so. You can also allow that ownership of the body might become contested at that point, but that's always an obvious hazard of leaving your body.

I'll also note that whatever informational connection Maxx' spirit has with his body will be broken if it does not include a temporal element (which I'm assuming it does not, because when he established the skill he did not have reason to foresee the need for one).

From Maxx:

If the body will automatically go with the spirit as equipment, then even if Morach try to leave it in the future the body will come along but not because of Morach specifically target it to come along but because the scriff follows the spirit.

You've got it backwards, Maxx. The spirit is the property of the body, and if the body leaves the universe the spirit goes with it. Normally the spirit is inside the body, but you've managed to separate them. Thus the spirit can travel without the body, and there's no inherent reason why it can't travel through time (although as mentioned already the dangers of doing so are manifold). So just as your spirit can leave your body behind spatially, it can also do so temporally. Your body will travel with you only if you specify that you are taking it with you. (For comparison, if you were in your body you could decide to travel to the past but not take your battle axe with you, despite the fact that it is equipment; you could also send your battle axe to the past without going there yourself. The anomalies involved are very complicated, but they're not impossible to resolve.)

Clear as mud?

--M. J. Young

Sun Jun 13 2010 11:40 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

I guess I was just wondering how I could kill him if he had no body. That will be irritating.

So if the body and the spirit become separated in universes which have no spatial or temporal connection, then does he die?

Mon Jun 14 2010 12:04 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Concerning the first question, I would say that the body can take full damage value from physical damage and then it dies and he verses out, and that the spirit can be attacked probably by psionic and magical attack forms and by physical attacks by other non-corporeal beings, and it too would take up to the maximum damage value and then die.

I would also think that if there was a problem with an energy control skill, the released energy could kill him despite the fact that it is currently physical energy--he is attempting to convert it into something else, and if he fails to control it the subsequent energy release could burn him without doing harm in the material realm.

I think, though, that he only dies if either the body or the spirit takes sufficient damage to kill him. I'd like to say that getting his body on one side of the rift and his spirit on the other and then closing the rift would kill him, but I'm not sure that's different from a magic jar; and I think that if either versed out the other would as well, and that would put them back in the same universe--but not necessarily reunited, which might require the use of some skill.

--M. J. Young

Mon Jun 14 2010 2:37 am #
WilliamTWodium
Member

I'm thinking I should use his full Willpower as the spirit's DV and use his (Density+Stamina+Resistance)/4 for his body's. Thoughts?

Anyway, I think we've answered enough questions for me to proceed. Next post will continue the game; I might start another thread to discuss the magic jar question.

Mon Jun 14 2010 3:30 am #
Max
Member

The spirit is the property of the body, and if the body leaves the universe the spirit goes with it.

If I have two bodies, then the spirit is the property of both bodies?
Does a part of my body (an arm for example) own a specific part of my spirit (if it have parts) or do my spirit own a specific part of my body (such as the brain)?
Or do they mutually own each other just like husband and wife?

I guess I was just wondering how I could kill him if he had no body. That will be irritating.

By killing the past self but this would probably create an infinity loop or something.

he's the authority on both pertinent subjects (time travel and disembodied versers).

Adding portal and zygote experience to the mix does make the problem seem to be more complicated but that what makes it interesting.

I'm thinking I should use his full Willpower as the spirit's DV and use his (Density+Stamina+Resistance)/4 for his body's. Thoughts?

I am wondering about that too. If the spirit can take full Willpower as DV, why does the body use (Density+Stamina+Resistance)/4 instead of (Density+Stamina+Resistance)/3?
This also raises the question whether the body have some sort of willpower of its own when left to its own devices.

I might start another thread to discuss the magic jar question.

That is also an interesting problem.

Mon Jun 14 2010 6:15 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator
If I have two bodies....
You don't and you never will.
- If you temporally duplicate yourself, there are two spirits and two bodies.
- If you clone yourself, the new body has a new spirit (just like a twin).
- If you matter replicate yourself, there is great debate concerning whether the new body is dead, or you replicate your spirit so there are two of you (including two spirits), or the new body is possessed by an opportunistic spirit masquerading as you. No one knows the answer to that; but the answer is not that you have two bodies--you have your original body, and there is a copy of your body that is not your body.
- If you create such a dead copy and transfer your spirit to it, then your spirit still belongs to your original body, and the extra body also is property of the original body until you vacate it and disown it; but the death of the copy body does not cause you to verse out, but simply to become disembodied once again, with whatever consequences the referee sees as appropriate to that.
- If there is some other way to get two bodies, I don't know what it is.
Scott, you division of damage value sounds quite reasonable to me. I would just use full damage value for both, and probably make it so that if either is damaged the damage applies to both (that is, Maxx can take X amount of damage, and if it hits his body it affects his spirit, and if it hits his spirit it affects his body, so I only have to count the total damage he has taken), but I can see arguments for half a dozen other approaches, and I think I'd use mine mostly because it's simple. Also, it avoids the complication that a character with an unusually high will power would have a higher damage value as a spirit than in his body, although I can see making the spirit's value Will Power/4 and forcing it back to the body if it takes full damage.

--M. J. Young

Whatever part of your body is alive owns your spirit. If your body dies, you verse out, and take your spirit with you.
Tue Jun 15 2010 2:57 am #
Max
Member

If there is some other way to get two bodies, I don't know what it is.

How about creating a clone then putting both bodies in stasis then cut both of them in half. Reattach both of them to each other then you will get half original and half copy. This way there are two bodies and only one spirit. This could be done by replacing the organ bit by bit if cutting in half would make the body verse out even in stasis.

Whatever part of your body is alive owns your spirit. If your body dies, you verse out, and take your spirit with you.

What if the above is the case?

although I can see making the spirit's value Will Power/4 and forcing it back to the body if it takes full damage.

That is if the spirit could get back to the body. If the spirit could not get back to the body then probably the spirit would die. That however raises another question. Can a spirit actually die?

Tue Jun 15 2010 12:46 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

How about creating a clone then putting both bodies in stasis then cut both of them in half. Reattach both of them to each other then you will get half original and half copy. This way there are two bodies and only one spirit. This could be done by replacing the organ bit by bit if cutting in half would make the body verse out even in stasis.

At the moment of the successful cloning you've got a second spirit. A clone is just a younger identical twin, not the same person, and thus having its own spirit.

Doing the same thing with an initially inanimate (i.e., dead) body would mean someone would have to determine which is the verser's body and which is the verser's spare body parts equipment cache. Since the spare parts body is never alive, it is never the verser's body. The organ exchange is a clever idea, but there is already a mental process involved such that the organ which is "my kidney" that has been removed is less "mine" than the organ that is "my kidney" by virtue of transplant from a donor.

As to whether the spirit could get back to the body, my own feeling on that is that spirits are essentially non-material and supernatural, and thus they exist in the material realm, if at all, as standing on the boundary between the material realm and the border supernatural realms. Border supernatural realms border on all material realms, although traffic between them is controlled primarily by the mag bias. But I can see a referee ruling that if the spirit dies the body also dies, and you verse out to a new universe where you are restored whole. It's not the only solution, and a GE roll might be used to give you different solutions at different times.

--M. J. Young

Tue Jun 15 2010 11:18 pm #
Max
Member

The organ exchange is a clever idea, but there is already a mental process involved such that the organ which is "my kidney" that has been removed is less "mine" than the organ that is "my kidney" by virtue of transplant from a donor.

A clone, a portal and appropriate regeneration/healing skill could probably achieve the same feat as cutting the body in half and reattaching it together again.
What does "I" refer to?
Is it the spirit, the brain, other body parts, or the combination of it?
Who decides that the body is less "mine" in the first place?
If the spirit decides that then the body probably should be the equipment of the spirit.
If the brain decides that then if the brain is put in a jar while sustaining it while other body parts are killed then the verser would probably not verse from that world because the brain is the main body and the others is less "mine".
This topic would probably be better discussed with the magic jar question.

Wed Jun 16 2010 12:04 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator
I have two comments.
1. It sounds like you're trying to find a way to do what the rules specify you can't do: divorce your spirit from your body permanently. The spirit is the equipment of the body because scriff is in the body, and the body recognizes its own spirit. That's the sum of it.
2. This discussion is derailing your game for esoterica that has no significance to play. You might be separated from your body and you might need to find a way to return to it, but ultimately none of the ideas you have raised about how to get two bodies are relevant to your present game situation and are merely delaying play.
--M. J. Young
Wed Jun 16 2010 11:10 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

Ultimately, what's delaying play is my increasingly intermittent internet connection combined with my increasingly consistent failure to take advantage of those windows of connectivity I am allowed. Unlike MJ, I have no obligation to answer out-of-character questions, and I had no intention of doing so for these. Also, I'm deferring my final decision as to how to treat damage value in spirit form until such a time as it matters. As they say in baseball, "play on."

Maxx: If you would, could you please identify for me

1) The calendar time at which you attempted this skill, and
2) Your total elapsed time in this universe so far (including time in gestation) in days,
and
3) Which post in this thread I would go to if I wanted to go back about a month.

If I haven't posted again by the time you see this, then it's a good bet that finding those three things will accelerate the process.

Thu Jun 17 2010 4:09 am #
Max
Member

divorce your spirit from your body permanently.

That is not the intention at all. It is because you said:

If there is some other way to get two bodies, I don't know what it is.

That is why I try to guess what that way is.

The spirit is the equipment of the body because scriff is in the body, and the body recognizes its own spirit. That's the sum of it.

Does the scriff choose which part of the body is the main body?
If this is the case, does the scriff have a mind of its own?

This discussion is derailing your game for esoterica that has no significance to play.

Which is why I said to have this discussion with the magic jar question but the thread is not created yet so I just put the questions here for future reference.

*****

1) The calendar time at which you attempted this skill

I am not sure but I think it is about 17 or 18 months after birth. This is because there was no calender in Morach world so I can only give a rough estimate.
The 17th month after birth post.
Since I have been too busy experimenting on various things I did not ask about the current day before MJ pass the baton to you but I did mention about Month 18 on page 11. I did not mention it again as it would look like I am rushing things. Since MJ have not advance the month yet, I think it is probably at the end of Month 17.

2) Your total elapsed time in this universe so far (including time in gestation) in days,

The time in gestation is about 38 weeks from this post.
The gestation time post.
Total time in universe = 38*7 + 17*30 = 776
Considering it is dawn when the skill is attempted, you could probably add one more day which would make it a new month which will make the total time in the universe to be equal to 777. This would also make it easier to remember.

3) Which post in this thread I would go to if I wanted to go back about a month.

If this skill is done on the first day of Month 18, then you just have to go to "The 17th month after birth post." That post also contains the link to "16th month after birth post" so if you go there you could find the post one month back. If you decide this will be Month 18 then you might want to write it in bold so it is easier to search for later even if it will be "undone".

Thu Jun 17 2010 4:48 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Does the scriff choose which part of the body is the main body?
If this is the case, does the scriff have a mind of its own?

Whichever part of the body is "alive" is the main body. Separating body parts other than by a user skill which allows the body to separate and remain in contact with itself (in which case the unity of the body is still present despite the physical division), even surgically, reasonably constitutes damage. Either the body will verse out and be reunited, or the body will heal and assume a new stable form without the missing body part, which is no longer part of the body once full healing is achieved.

Since one spirit cannot inhabit two bodies (even if it can control them), if there is any question which is the original body the one body the spirit primarily inhabits would be that one body. If the question is which of two indistinguishable bodies is the correct one if the verser is disembodied when he verses out, the question is moot--if there is some way to distinguish them, we can distinguish them, and if there isn't, the disorientation of versing out will mean that the spirit of the verser won't know anyway, so whichever one the referee says is the right one is the right one.

If you create two bodies, either one is dead, or a second spirit becomes involved. It is not impossible to animate a dead body and prevent it from decaying, but that should not be taken as the same thing as a living body.

--M. J. Young

Thu Jun 17 2010 5:59 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

________

The skill was successfully learned. I'm polling opinions.

Sun Jun 20 2010 3:37 am #
Max
Member

The skill description and SAL?

Sun Jun 20 2010 1:57 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

Later? I'm not sure if I'm allowed to withhold that, but I would like to.

Sun Jun 20 2010 7:05 pm #
Max
Member

Okay. Take your time.

*****

Separating body parts other than by a user skill which allows the body to separate and remain in contact with itself (in which case the unity of the body is still present despite the physical division), even surgically, reasonably constitutes damage.

This sentence could also provide some answer. I wonder if Morach spirit have subconscious connection with the current body or the body in the future when Morach time travel to the past. I also wonder if this connection is present even before the rift is created if somehow Morach arrive in Oo-hii's past world.

That sentence also makes me wonder how damage of multiple connected bodies are calculated. If there are two connected bodies, I wonder what would happen to the body if the other body is killed. I wonder if the remaining body would receive half damage of the other body or would the remaining body DV remain the same considering that the total DV of both bodies is actually twice normal body DV. If it is calculated using total DV then probably the injury to one body would only cause half normal damage and one of the body will expire when enough damage have been done to one of the body.

Sun Jun 20 2010 8:47 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

After three minutes, you feel ready. You mentally seize as much of the volatile material around you as you can and tap into its potential energy, hurling yourself past-ward with in an attempt to drain off as much power from the future explosion as you can.

It works.

You know you weren't able to use all of the explosive material as fuel for your trip, but it's difficult to say how much you left behind since, once you make the conversion, you are immediately and abruptly elsewhen:

The rift is gone. The noon-day sun shines from all around you now, instead of only from one side. You're in the jungle, with sunlight gleaming from the black-barked trees all around you. That repetitive insectoid drone surrounds you, and the hot, humid air smells of ozone and rust.

There is no evidence of your previous - now future? - accidental explosion; the foliage is intact, and no corpses litter the forest floor.

__

I know the skill learning roll and SAL (1@1), I just want to conceal the length of time you traveled backward until you have some in-game clues. I flipped a coin to see which side of the rift you were on when you made the attempt; Graham kindly called it for me (tails for Gamma World), and it came up tails.

Mon Jun 21 2010 7:22 am #
Max
Member

This is interesting. Before I take any significant action, I would like to remember this exact place and wait for any unique movement in the environment to tell me the exact time such as the roar of specific animal which scare off the others, a specific insect is eaten, or any event that I can distinguish from the others.

After that, I will try to compare the place before the explosion occurs and the place I am currently in to see if it differs a lot or only a little bit. I will also try to see at the position of the black tree that I examined before to see if I have a clue on how much it have grown in the future.

I few questions that came to my mind.
Where is Oo-hii now?
Where is Oo-hii nest?
Where is the nearest *bad place*?
Is Oo-hii brother still alive now?

I wonder if meeting Oo-hii or saving his brother would change history significantly.
Changing something that have already happen would be bad if it is not disguised by an illusion or something. An illusion would probably not work too well considering that Oo-hii have some sort of mental defense. I also have to worry about Oo-hii superb detection that can even detect a spirit.

I will probably try my "Time Stop" skill next to give me more time to think.

*****

I flipped a coin to see which side of the rift you were on when you made the attempt; Graham kindly called it for me (tails for Gamma World), and it came up tails.

Interesting. I wonder if that would make Gamma World bias to support psionic time travel.

Mon Jun 21 2010 6:32 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

Nothing particularly memorable occurs in the environment over the next minute. Something skitters along a vine overhead, too quickly to see (perhaps one of the purple lizards?), and a drop of water that had been gathering at the tip of a small shrub's leaf drips to the ground. Other such things occur - there is a yellow-and-black striped centipede crawling on a nearby tree, for example - but there is nothing exceptional or unusual to mark the time. Are these things good enough?

There is not a great deal of difference in this area - the trees are the same size, for instance. Other than the presence of a particular bush which you are not certain was there before (that is, in the future), your surroundings do not seem much changed.

I few questions that came to my mind.
Where is Oo-hii now?
Where is Oo-hii nest?
Where is the nearest *bad place*?
Is Oo-hii brother still alive now?

Do you expect to know or be able to easily discover the answers to these questions now, or have you merely listed them as a note of what you're thinking about?

I will probably try my "Time Stop" skill next to give me more time to think.

If the above concerns have been resolved to your satisfaction, you begin concentrating. It takes eight minutes, as I recall.
___

Interesting. I wonder if that would make Gamma World bias to support psionic time travel.

Of course. If the bias at the time (potentially different from the bias now, of course, but most likely the same) did not support time travel, then the skill would have failed automatically, with no chance of success or botch.

A GE roll on whether this moment has a distinct temporal landmark comes up 18, "not favorable," only one point off from Neutral Result or No Effect. It'll be about as I expect with perhaps a slight negative spin.

I'm not narrating the time stop until I'm sure he's doing it now - there is ample opportunity for Maxx to be dissatisfied with the results I've given him and specify further action - but the roll is 93, which will succeed in light of his 1@10 BRA, 1@1 SAL, and +40 sit-mod built into the skill. That's 71% before bias, so any world bias of at least level 11 would make that roll succeed, and Gamma World's bias is higher.

That's if the skill is ever completed, of course. I'll hold off on the GE roll for those eight minutes until it's time.

Tue Jun 22 2010 8:05 am #
Max
Member

Are these things good enough?

The combination of those events are probably enough to mark the time because it is unique to that exact time. Unless the same lizard or centipede will travel using the same route and the same drop of water can be recycled yet again and drop again in the same fashion at that specific time interval it is probably safe to say that the event is unique although this type of marker would have to be remembered in detail for it to work.

Other than the presence of a particular bush which you are not certain was there before

I wonder if this bush can move like an animal or have been eaten in the future because I am not sure I have seen it before.

have you merely listed them as a note of what you're thinking about?

Yes. It is important to note a time traveler thoughts.

If the above concerns have been resolved to your satisfaction, you begin concentrating. It takes eight minutes, as I recall.

And so I begin to concentrate on my "Time Stop" skill.

Tue Jun 22 2010 2:17 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

No major changes in your environment occur during your preparatory concentration (and you wouldn't notice minor ones - you're concentrating). Everything seems to freeze as your personal subjective time slows to a crawl. You've gotten a much better handle on the technique, it seems; you feel as though you'll be able to maintain this for a good long while.

Now what?

__

GE on events during concentration: 17, "neutral result or no effect." Skill roll made in advance (see previous post).

Tue Jun 22 2010 7:00 pm #
Max
Member

I wonder why I land on this world instead of my own past world.
Maybe there is something to do here but I wonder what that is.
I wonder if I should locate Oo-hii or save his brother if his brother is still alive.

While thinking about that, I suddenly thought of an idea. I will concentrate for 8 apparent minutes then try to predict the probable future if I try to locate or contact Oo-hii.

Tue Jun 22 2010 9:03 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

Which are you trying to predict - what happens if you attempt to find him (and how would you be trying to find him?), or what happens if you attempt to contact him (and I'm assuming you mean "contact him telepathically, which I can do because I have contacted him 'before'")?

Tue Jun 22 2010 10:56 pm #
Max
Member

what happens if you attempt to find him (and how would you be trying to find him?)

This is what I am trying to predict first. I will attempt to find him using Locate Telepathically Known Person.

what happens if you attempt to contact him

If I manage to locate him by using that skill then I will try to predict what will happen if I attempt to contact him using telepathy when I meet him.

Tue Jun 22 2010 11:23 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

After eight apparent minutes, you work out that if you attempt to locate him with that skill, you will succeed, discovering that he is currently "that way".

Are you now attempting to use the location skill, predict what will happen if you attempt to contact him, attempt to contact him, predict what will happen if you travel in the direction that you predicted you would detect if you used the Locate skill, actually travel in that direction, or what? Your phrasing has left me somewhat confused about your plan.

__

A skill learning roll of 75 gains Maxx the following skill:

1@2 Choice Assessment P12@3 requires 0:08:00 high concentration, yields limited information concerning the future likely to result from a single and particular choice not yet made, +30 SM W1b

Wed Jun 23 2010 12:14 am #
Max
Member

I will use my new skill to predict what will happen if I try to go "that way" and contact Oo-hii using telepathy. If I need to concentrate for 8 minutes again to activate my skill then I will do so.

Wed Jun 23 2010 12:31 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

The skill you have predicts one thing; predicting the outcome of multiple sequential choices is more complex. Keeping in mind that you could attempt to contact Oo-hii from where you are (although you've never contacted someone telepathically while hyperaccelerated before, so there's no way to know for certain if that would work), which prediction would you like to make - what will happen if you travel in that direction, or what will happen if you attempt to contact him?

And yes, you would need to concentrate again to make this work.

Wed Jun 23 2010 5:37 pm #
Max
Member

predicting the outcome of multiple sequential choices is more complex.

I will concentrate for 8 apparent minutes and try to predict the outcome of multiple sequential choices.
First choice, travel in that direction to see if I meet Oo-hii or not.
Second choice, if I meet him I will try to contact him using telepathy if at that time my hyper-acceleration skill is over and if it is not then I will attempt to read his mind.
Third choice, I will try to find out if his brother is alive or not and where is his brother last known location through the telepathy or by reading Oo-hii's mind.

Wed Jun 23 2010 6:23 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

If you travel in that direction, you will encounter Oo-hii while your hyperacceleration is still in effect, but you will fail to read his thoughts.

___

Skill roll is a 68, Maxx learns the skill at SAL 1@2; I made a mock mind-reading roll to determine the predicted outcome.

Thu Jun 24 2010 4:29 am #
Max
Member

I think the mental defenses probably made the reading mind attempt to fail although this is just a guess.
Can I add more sequential choices to the skill or do I have to concentrate yet again if I want to add more choices to it?

Either way, I will predict what will happen if I try my "History of Person" skill with Oo-hii as a target to check whether Oo-hii's brother is still alive and where is his last known location. If I must concentrate again for 8 minutes then the first choice would be traveling to Oo-hii location first then trying the "History of Person" skill on Oo-hii.

Thu Jun 24 2010 4:08 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

My thinking is that if the precognitive skill requires a period of dedicated concentration, you need to have your entire question in mind before you start concentrating. (In part, what you're concentrating on is what you're trying to predict.) That doesn't mean that you couldn't try to predict the answer to a longer sequence of choices all in one go (although I would penalize for more than three choices), but it does mean that you would need to decide on that entire sequence before using the skill.

So yes, you'll need to use the skill again to make this new prediction.

This next attempt, your results are a little more vague; you didn't get as clear a read on the future as you would have liked.

At this juncture I notice that your History of Person skill requires "contact with person" while concentrating (for thirty minutes). This seems to imply physical contact. Have you ever attempted this while in spirit form? I am attempting to decide whether this is possible without penalty, possible with a very large penalty, or impossible. This decision will of course influence your prediction of the future.

__

12@7 Sequential Choice Assessment roll is 11, weak but successful. That weakness will be expressed once I know enough to relay the prediction.

Thu Jun 24 2010 6:16 pm #
Max
Member

What result did I get from reading the future?
Did it have any information regarding Oo-hii's brother?

*****

Have you ever attempted this while in spirit form?

Yes, actually Morach learn this skill while in spirit form.

Thu Jun 24 2010 6:59 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

All you manage to predict is that you will likely find him and proceed to learn something about his history. What you might learn is not quite clear.

__

I left out the part of the prediction which concerned the History of Person because I needed the answer you just provided before I could determine what the probable future was. Otherwise, I might have told you that you predicted success for an impossible skill.

Twenty-four apparent minutes have elapsed.

Fri Jun 25 2010 1:21 am #
Max
Member

I will concentrate for 8 minutes again with the same two choices but this time I will add a third choice in which I will go to the direction of Oo-hii's brother if I learn something about him then try to predict if I will meet Oo-hii's brother and if I do not learn anything about Oo-hii's brother then I will try telepathy when my hyper-acceleration expire.

*****

Edit: Can I have this new skill description or do I have to wait until later?

Fri Jun 25 2010 1:07 pm #
WilliamTWodium
Member

This time you determine that you will find Oo-hii, but you fail to discover anything about his history; when you wait for your hyper-acceleration to expire, your attempt at telepathy will catch his attention and curiosity, but you will not succeed at establishing a connection.
__
I was just being lazy; here's the skill:

1@2 Sequential Choice Assessment P12@7 requires 0:08:00 high concentration, yields limited information concerning the future likely to result from a sequence of choices not yet made, -10SM for each choice over three, +30 SM W1b

The roll is 48, successful even though the adjusted sit-mod is only +10 (+20 BRA +12 SAL already equals 42, bias level of at least 3@ ensures success). This is a good success, but not a great one like the first two.

GE roll for the circumstances in Oo-hii's area once the hyper-acceleration expires comes up cherry lance fans. Mock History of Person and the mock attack roll for telepathy both fail.

Fri Jun 25 2010 5:10 pm #

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