Gaming Outpost Discussions

1. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   The concept of "name" is entirely new to the butterfly; the only interaction with other creatures it has known is mating. It is an egg layer. As far as wanting to know anything, if you happen to know of any particularly sweet blossoms in the area, it would be glad of directions.

   I see what you're after, I think. Unfortunately, I think if you're going to make it telepathy to select multiple targets you would have to roll each target individually. That is, you would roll telepathy to humans to connect to Lelach and telepathy to animals to connect to butterfly, and if you wanted to include Morani you would have to roll telepathy to humans again for contacting him. A general single-roll contact for multiple minds would have to be more generalized--all known minds within specific distance, or all sprite minds known to you, or all animal minds known to you, or some similarly generalized definition. Relative success would then determine what percentage of the targeted minds you reached (and thus could be used to check any specific mind you hoped would be included). But if at the outset you are selecting specific minds to target, then each would be rolled as a targeted mind to determine whether that one was connected.

   The part that remains is the aspect of what we might distinguish as chat or private channels. If you're satisfied with the choice that all creatures with whom you are in contact can hear each other's sent thoughts as you hear them, then it will be agreed that that is how your telepathy works; if you want the power to decide whether the communcation is open chat or private channel, but you're willing to make that decision at the moment you make contact (that is, you are communicating with Lelach, and you decide to contact butterfly, at that moment you decide as you roll for butterfly whether Lelach and butterfly are on a common channel or isolated from each other), I'm comfortable with that, too. The only one I'd have trouble with would be if you wanted the ability to make some communications common and some private, that is, if you were talking to Lelach and butterfly together and then decided you wanted to communicate with butterfly without Lelach overhearing--but I think we can do that with a second skill check on the channel you are changing to private.

   Sorry for the longish discussion; I'm thinking on paper here.

   Your familiarity with the butterfly is such that you could contact the same butterfly again; it is not sufficient for a bonus. As to whether you and the butterfly are friends, I don't know whether I can answer that at this point.

   Concerning the sensory skill data reading skill, my inclination is that using it for reading the data of other senses is different enough that it would constitute new use, and thus I am assuming that you have not used it for other senses unless you specifically state that you are doing so and roll for the attempt. Also, I am leaving it to the dice to decide whether you can have one skill that covers all senses or separate skills for each sense, which will be determined by whether your first roll for using the skill for another sense is a success or a failure. Thus if you practice it with visual sensory data only, you might improve it sufficiently to increase the odds that it would work for another type of sensory data.

   I am also thinking that reading the sensory data of another mind would be a new use, since you learned it internally, so I will want you to roll for that whenever you first try it.

   This approach to enhancing your vision by overlapping the second sensory image on the first does not work at all; you can't see how to put the two images together.

   When you ask about hearing sound more clearly by using your sense of touch, are you talking about a different use for the skill of reading sensory data, or are you talking about developing a different skill?

   It might be possible to enhance your sleep with something like hypnosis, but if so it is a more difficult task than you have yet managed.

   The running water of the stream does not make a good mirror, although you do notice the light of your body reflecting in it sometimes. Things around you are noticeably smaller than they were; you can reach Lelach's cheek with your hand more easily when nursing, and it's not just that you are gaining more control of your limbs--they are longer.

   --M. J. Young

   Tue Sep 8 2009 4:48 am #
2. 

   Max
   Member

   What would the butterfly like to call itself (or should I say herself) or do the butterfly prefer me to choose a name for it?
   I will ask the butterfly if it would want to show me a sample of sweet blossoms.
   I wonder if this telepathy contact can transmit data regarding the sweet blossoms.
   If I need to move around then I will probably ask for Lelach's help.
   If the butterfly show me a sample of the sweet blossom, then I will practice my detect material with it so that I can find more sweet blossoms for the butterfly.

   *****

   Can I practice the telepathy for animal for plant too or do I have to roll for it to find out?

   Can I make a general single-roll contact for multiple minds to any creature that is within chain of contact (of touch at that moment)?
   Chain of contact means that for all creature that have contact with me (primary contact), the creature who have contact with the primary contact (secondary contact), and so on.

   So did I already learn how to control the communication channel (at the moment of contact or in the middle of it) of the telepathy or do I have to roll for it?
   I will practice both telepathy (human and animal) in Slot 3.
   In the practice session, I will introduce Lelach and the butterfly with each other.

   *****

   I'm not certain whether I should be pushing him forward another month, but I've put a lot of time there already and need to move forward.

   On to the next month... (which would be Month 7)

   So trying to enhance vision that way does not work at all. I have a feeling that it might not work for static visual acuity. It may work for dynamic visual acuity though if the reading is lagging behind a bit thus enabling me to predict the movement of a moving target. I will revisit this skill much later after I get more proficient in reading my sensory information.

   When you ask about hearing sound more clearly by using your sense of touch, are you talking about a different use for the skill of reading sensory data, or are you talking about developing a different skill?

   This would be a new skill that I envisioned in the womb.
   It is not quite new but I want to meditate and try it again considering that I can read sensory info now.
   Last time you rule that this is a P5@1 altered sense variant although the ruling may change considering that I know few skills related to it.
   Does read neural motor pattern also reads the tactile sense related to it?
   It would be weird if the phantom limb does not have any tactile sense though.

   If I fail the above skill, I will try meditate and try omni-directional sense by regulating different sense around to detect any pattern that might interest me thus heightening awareness of my surrounding.
   I will try the meditate and omni-directional sensing combo for a week until something happens.

   If I succeed with either the above skill, I will meditate and re-attempt to enhance my sleeping experience with hypnosis because I will need the extra slot to practice it.

   *****

   I guess that the running water would probably distort the image of my reflection (which is why I said "or anything that show my reflection" to show my concern), so what about a puddle near the river?

   I wonder if I have enough vocabulary (in English or baby talk) to be understood properly by my parents.
   Can I reach for my back using my hand or at least try to touch my wing with my hand?
   Can I crawl or move in a way similar to crawling?
   What significant changes happen in this new month?

   Tue Sep 8 2009 7:16 pm #
3. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   The butterfly does not understand why it needs a name. It knows itself, and when you contact it it knows that you are contacting it. It does not fully understand why you need a name, either, since you are the only creature who has ever communicated with it in this way, and had you not done so you would probably be irrelevant. Names are thus irrelevant to its mind, beyond that there is itself and others, and some of the others are dangerous and some are not.

   An image of the sweet blossom forms in your mind. Interestngly, the colors are violently bright, unlike any flowers you have ever seen, although the shapes look famililar.

   Telepathy to plants would be telepathy to animals in this world, and you can include that as part of practice, unless you want specific information from your communication with the plants, in which case you would have to roll for contact.

   When you speak of chain of contact, do you mean physically touching each other, or are you suggesting that you could contact someone who is telepathically contacting someone else and so be in touch with both of them?

   In the practice session, I will introduce Lelach and the butterfly with each other.

   I take this to mean that you will, while practicing telepathy, attempt to contact the butterfly while you are communicating with Lelach (or the reverse), and that you expect that they will then be able to communicate with each other through your mind. This means you are contacting them on common channels.

   I think that for this specific event to occur, I would have to roll the attempts for both connections, to see whether you manage to connect to the second while still in touch with the first (and without botching). It's up to you whether you want to attempt that.

   Your effort to convert tactile sensation into sound does not work yet.

   Does read neural motor pattern also read the tactile sense related to it?

   If you mean, does it sense what the body part feels like to move this way, that would be part of it; if you mean does it sense what you feel like overall when doing this, no. Nor does it give you the incidental tactile feelings of external contacts. My brain says the word I want is kinesthetics, the "tactile" aspect of knowing the position of the body part. That you have as part of this.

   I'm not understanding the "omnidirectional sensing". Is this a sort of clairvoyance, or is it a heightened awareness that uses combined sensory information to create a sense of the surrounding space?

   You are now able to crawl, and getting better at it. You are also beginning to get depth perception, although it is developing slowly. You can pass objects from one hand to the other.

   As far as language, you have control of four distinct pure vowels, but diphthongs are difficult to control; you've got a growing number of consonants, but no clear dentals and no sibilances--you have no teeth.

   Lelach calls to you with a disapproving tone whenever you get close to the edge of the clearing, and sometimes hops over (a quick flying leap) to scoop you up and bring you back toward the middle.

   --M. J. Young

   Sat Sep 12 2009 1:47 am #
4. 

   Max
   Member

   you are the only creature who has ever communicated with it in this way

   Then what will happen if I introduce Lelach or other butterflies the same way?
   Uno (for one) or Butterfly1 (which sounds practical but probably rude) is probably what I would call the butterfly temporarily (if it does not care about name but I can suggest other name if you want).

   So telepathy can transfer images. I have thought that telepathy can transfer thoughts in more than one form such as voices, images and others but I have not been able to try this with Lelach. (You know how Lelach would not want to learn or teach anything through telepathy.)

   the colors are violently bright, unlike any flowers you have ever seen, although the shapes look famililar.

   Would that mean the sweet blossoms are multi-colored?
   Does that mean the shape would be like a normal flower but only the colors are different?
   Can this mean that the butterfly differentiate color differently from human or sprite, and that makes the color contrast different from normal?
   If I tone down the color a bit, do I recognize what flower that is?

   I would practice my telepathy with plants in the same slot as I practice with other telepathy.
   Can I create a telepathy package and said that I want to practice them?
   Can I know any information (general information about the conversation that is not specific) that I get through telepathy with plants?

   What I mean by chain of contact is physically touching each other.
   Can a single-roll telepathy be done with this condition?

   Although I also thought about contacting someone who is telepathically in contact with someone else and so be in touch with both of them, but this can only be tested with someone who have telepathy which I think I would not meet for a while. It would be nice if I can meet them though.

   I think that for this specific event to occur, I would have to roll the attempts for both connections, to see whether you manage to connect to the second while still in touch with the first (and without botching). It's up to you whether you want to attempt that.

   Can I say that in the event of a successful connection (to both in practice), I will introduce both of them to each other?
   Because I practice both telepathy in the same slot, the introduction is bound to happen at one time or the other. The question is, will it happen sooner or later.

   If you mean, does it sense what the body part feels like to move this way, that would be part of it; if you mean does it sense what you feel like overall when doing this, no. Nor does it give you the incidental tactile feelings of external contacts. My brain says the word I want is kinesthetics, the "tactile" aspect of knowing the position of the body part. That you have as part of this.

   Wow, that explains a lot. So my read neural motor pattern skill does not read the sensory information of external contact from the phantom limb but knows how to move the limb accordingly when doing certain action, is this right?
   That certainly makes me remember about muscle memory.
   So that means if I want to read external tactile data it will be Read Sensory Information Center (Tactile) right?
   So that is probably why the convert tactile sensation does not work.
   Which brings me to try my other skills next.

   I'm not understanding the "omnidirectional sensing".

   It is a heightened awareness skill that uses combined sensory information to create a sense of the surrounding space.
   I will meditate and try this skill each day for a week until something happens (which would be succeeding at it or something else).

   If I succeed the above skill, I will meditate and try to enhance my sleeping experience with hypnosis.

   I did thought of omni-directional clairvoyance skill (which reminds me of Byakugan technique in Naruto; a Japanese manga about ninja for those who do not know about it) and possible mind reading variant that may act like it but for now I want to try something that I think I can do first.

   I wonder if there are something that I can hold on to so that I can practice standing up. I wonder if Lelach let me hold on to her hands so that I can practice walking with her help. Something spherical and big enough (like a Swiss ball but in this case a dried fruit might also do the trick) that I can push around while trying to stand up might help me develop my sense of balance. I will discuss with Lelach about this in telepathy session.

   I wonder if I can catch a falling object properly.
   I will practice letting my toy go at a certain height (below nose) and catching it with my other hand in the same slot as other exercise.

   I wonder if I can practice my vocal using the example from Read Neural Motor Pattern.

   I could see a baby that tries to play with a butterfly at the edge of the clearing but then got scoop up by a frowning mom.
   A quick flying leap huh. I wonder if I can copy one of those.

   Sat Sep 12 2009 5:21 pm #
5. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   Uno is fine for a name, but the butterfly does not understand why it would want to meet anyone. It never met anyone before. This is not presented in a rude way, nor exactly in a curious way, but more as a simple statement of the reality of its life--it is not a social creature, and has no concept of what being a social creature involves.

   You have not indicated any skills at horticulture, and thus whether you recognize a particular flower would be a check on general knowledge, your education level. Unfortunately, you never gave me your education level, so I'll need to ask what is the last grade of school or degree program you attended or completed, so I can enter that information on your sheet.

   Assuming you have no such skill, you do not recognize this particular flower. However, the brilliance of the colors suggests that it is (what to you would be) a distortion of color based on a different base vision: the butterfly sees light differently from you.

   The plants are strange, because on the one hand they seem to have no experience communicating with other beings while on the other hand they are completely unsurprised by the process and disinterested in it. Mostly their thoughts concern amounts of sunlight and moisture, air temperatures and conditions, and the actions of animals which are immediately relevant to them (birds nesting, insects eating).

   Can I create a telepathy package and said I want to practice them?

   Assuming you mean that you want to set aside time to practice all telepathy skills, it can be done that way. State what "all telepathy skills" includes and what time you are spending on them; there being a certain amount of crossover between them, you would get a sort of generalized credit--that is, assuming you have four skills, practicing them separately would be four times three hours per week, but since they are related and you are practicing them as such you could get away with eight or nine hours of practice on the techniques involved in four closely related skills.

   Concerning the physical contact question, I think that the answer will have to be that you would have to attempt it at the time.

   Your description of the feeling you get from reading the neural motor pattern matches my understanding. You know what it feels for a limb to move that way, and how the command pathways are involved, even if you do not have those command pathways or limbs (a tail is an example; you do not have a tail, but if you read the movements of a tail of a mouse or other creature, you can sense how you would move it and what it would feel like to move it).

   So that means if I want to read external tactile data it will be Read Sensory Information Center (Tactile) right?

   Yes, which as far as I know you have not attempted to do, at least since having taught yourself to read visual sensory information. (Had you done so, there would be a note on the sheet saying that it did or did not also cover tactile sensation.

   You succeed in enhancing your awareness. This skill will be deemed to be "always on", and thus if something occurs which you might have noticed or you are surprised, you can request that this skill be rolled to determine whether you were aware in advance of the potential for surprise.

   You are still unable to reduce your need for sleep.

   The trees are readily available for you to lean against (there is the big one in the clearing), and with some effort you manage to get to your feet. Your parents are clearly proud of you, but not overly amazed; you are just about on schedule for standing, and no one expects you to walk for a while. You hold your mother's hands, but can't really keep your balance for walking or support your weight on one leg at a time. Still, she enjoys the game of helping you try to walk like this.

   You miss the falling object more than you catch it, but the practice does seem to help.

   You do not really gain anything from the read neural pattern skill when it comes to talking--you already have the memory in your mind of how this is done from when you were human. It's more a matter of training this body to respond correctly.

   You probably could copy the leap, but not yet--you can barely stand, and your wings have not yet really built up the strength for much of anything.

   --M. J. Young

   Sun Sep 13 2009 10:05 pm #
6. 

   Max
   Member

   the butterfly does not understand why it would want to meet anyone.

   How does the butterfly distinguish other butterfly as a candidate for mating process then (does this distinguishable feature substitute the need for name)?
   What if there are others who wanted to know more about the butterfly (or in other words want to meet the butterfly)?

   I did take biology class in high school. I am interested in horticulture but remembering each plant name and shape (for each plant encountered in surrounding environment, or in media such as books, Internet or others) would be improbable feat for a normal human although a person who have enhanced memory recollection might have a better chance of doing it.
   I thought I did tell you about my education level when we talk about intelligence attribute. Four word that may refresh the memory about them: university, degree, electrical, computer.

   However, the brilliance of the colors suggests that it is (what to you would be) a distortion of color based on a different base vision: the butterfly sees light differently from you.

   I thought that would be the case as I have read about it before. I could not remember where I got the source of the information for this but it lingers in my mind. The verser-me would probably remember about it.

   I will remember the conversation (if it can be called that) that I have with plants and the relation of conversation to the surrounding of the plants. I would also practice my telepathy with other animals to get to know more about them.

   For now the telepathy package is telepathy to human and telepathy to animal (and plants).
   Can the skill level for both skill still increase but slower if I provide the same training time (for 1 slot which mean only 3 hours) for both of them?
   If shorter training time would not do to increase the level of both of them (albeit a little slower), I would provide 1.5 hours cross-over that would make the total training time to 4.5 hours although 3 hours cross-over sounds tempting.
   I will change the practice menu according to the answer of the above question.

   Do I need to practice heighten awareness to increase its level because it is "always on" like my auto mind tagging?
   Did my meditation level increase if I use it in my other psi practices (as a cross-over)?

   Can I practice intuition using heighten awareness?
   By using the previous practice method and adding heighten awareness would probably make the intuition more in the extraordinary type right?
   I could also use this to predict precisely where my toy will fall in my catching toy practice.
   If I can catch my toy perfectly each time, then I will try releasing the toy while moving (the releasing arm) thus making it fall in an arching way and try to catch it.
   Succeeding that I will probably try to catch it with my eyes close so that I will rely more on my intuition.

   Can I practice Read Sensory Information Center (Visual) and Read Neural Motor Pattern with animals?
   Or do I have to roll for it to see if I can practice the skills with animals?

   Considering that I am more aware of my surrounding now, I would like to meditate and try to enhance my senses using other senses (such as enhancing hearing using touch, enhancing taste by smell, and others) each day for a week until something happens (which would be succeeding at it or something else). This would probably expand the range of awareness via the enhanced sense.

   I would like to try an effective rest prayer. I will lay down and cross my arm then pray in my mind and ask that I will be given a good rest so that I could be more alert to the sign (in dream or when I awake later) that will be shown to me, and rise up early to do what is expected of me. I will do this (repeating it in my mind) about 10 minutes to 1 hour before sleeping. This prayer would probably be prayed in conjunction with my prayer of guidance (which would be between prayer of guidance and sleeping).

   If I see any insect or other creature (more than one if possible) touching the tree that I am touching then I will meditate and try my chain of touch telepathy. The telepathy would need appropriate synchronization time because it will connect to more than one entity at a time. The sync time will probably depend on how many creature or how hard it is to sync with the creature in which case a new creature that touches the tree during the sync time and old creature leaving the tree before sync time is finished will not be counted in the skill. To initiate it, my eyes would be closed (because I will need to concentrate on maintaining the connection) and I will thought to myself "Telepathy chain, connect!". From there on, even if the insect on the tree fly away, I can maintain the connection to it until the duration of the skill is over, provided that I do not deactivate the skill or open my eyes.

   I do enjoy the walking game and probably give a baby laugh (when start walking and when ended up sitting down) to let Lelach know that I enjoy it.

   A new body really does need a little getting use to, does it?
   I wonder if there is a skill to properly train your body to suit the mind.
   Would that be shape-shifting variant or can that be something much simpler such as self-control?

   The wings must be able to generate force capable of carrying my own weight before I could take flight. That is why I will flap the wing whenever I can to strengthen it. Flapping it in the water might be a good practice because of water resistance.

   Mon Sep 14 2009 3:54 pm #
7. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   The butterfly does not distinguish candidates for mating beyond that they have to be egg fertilizers. As to others wanting to meet the butterfly, since it cannot imagine wanting to meet others, it cannot imagine others wanting to meet it.

   I do see that I have computer skills on your sheet, but nothing in electricity or electronics apart from those, and nothing indicating that you attended a university. I am going to put down a bachelors degree, although from what you said you might have a masters or an associates, which is a one point difference either way.

   The combined training in both telepathy skills would increase both, more slowly.

   You do need to practice heightened awareness to improve it, although if you enter situations in which you need to use it a great deal I will count that as ongoing practice.

   Your use of meditation has still been hit and miss, but I will count its use with the other skills as practice and will increase it as appropriate.

   The combination of intuition and heightened awareness in mechanical terms does not increase your intuition but instead gives you a second roll in those situations in which both apply.

   The most obvious is ordinary surprise situations. If you were walking through the forest and suddenly came face-to-face with a snake, you and the snake would both get intuition checks. If you make the check successfully, you were aware of the presence of the snake sufficiently in advance that you are not surprised. You would also get a heightened awareness check, and if that is successful, you are not surprised even if you failed the intuition check.

   On the other hand, the heightened awareness does not impact the intuitive use of skills, so if you are using intuition as your best relevant attribute for skill use, heightened awareness does not change that.

   And to add a third hand, if someone uses stealth or ambush skills to create "special surprise", that negates your intuition check--you do not get to make an intuition check if they create a successful ambush; however, you do get your heightened awareness skill check in that situation, which can negate special surprise.

   The problem with your catching is not in the prediction so much as in the action: your agility and hand/eye are still developing, and you cannot easily coordinate sense information with bodily action. You are improving, but the heightened awareness does not help this.

   You can use those read sensory information and read neural motor pattern skills with animals, but these are much more difficult to read and you succeed less often. As practice that is not so important, but you should be aware that you fail a lot more often when working with animals.

   Please clarify for me the sensory enhancement skills. I can see at least two distinct possibilities:

   1. You could mean that you intend to combine the smell of a target with the taste of the target to enhance your ability to taste it (which is something people do automatically) and that you intend to combine the feeling of the vibrations on your skin with the vibrations of your eardrum to enhance your ability to hear.
   2. You could mean that you intend to retask parts of your brain such that the information received by your olfactory sense would use the gustational sensory processors to enhance processing of olfactory data, and the auditory sense would use the tactile processors to process auditory data.
   3. Come to think of it, you could mean that you intend to feed additional data from the gustational and tactile sensors, respectively, to the olfactory and auditory processors, giving them more information.

   It might be that you mean none of the above, but that should help you figure out what you do mean well enough to describe it to me.

   Your prayer for rest is quite effective.

   On your chain telepathy, do you expect it to be able to contact the minds of creatures you are not aware are in physical contact? This raises issues about the skill, because normally you can only contact a mind if you have contacted it before and choose to contact it specifically or if you can see the creature whose mind it is. If you are attempting to contact minds of creatures who are actually present but outside your knowledge, that will be a different skill from trying to contact all those creatures you know to be in the chain (either because you saw them or because you have contacted them before and know that they are touching).

   Concerning training the body to suit the mind, there are two problems. One is whether the body knows how to do it; the other is whether the mind knows how to tell the body to do it.

   Using touch typing as an example, there was a time when you knew where all the letters were on the keyboard, but you had to think about each one, and you had to send individual commands to the fingers to move to the correct position and depress the correct key. Gradually the fingers learned where the keys were, and eventually you needed only think the letter and the finger would depress the key. As you improved, your fingers began to learn letter combinations, such that you did not have to think about letters but only about words, and the fingers would do the work.

   If we dropped you into a different body, your mind would still know how to type like that, but the question is whether the body did. If you were in the body of someone who types much faster than you, it would still take a bit of exploration for your mind to find the pathways that trigger the typing that body knows how to do, but you would very quickly manage to get that body typing at its speed. If we dropped you into a body that did not know how to type, you would have to adjust your mind back to instructing each finger to move to the appropriate key, and in essence teach the body the touch typing skill. The fact that your mind knows how to trigger the commands for touch typing makes no difference in a body that does not have the neural pathways trained for it.

   Exercising your wings in the water makes good sense. It also makes a lot of splashing and pushes you around quite a bit, but usually Lelach doesn't mind--unless she's in a hurry, such as trying to bathe you before Morani gets home for dinner while she's cooking back in the clearing.

   --M. J. Young

   Tue Sep 15 2009 12:27 am #
8. 

   Max
   Member

   I must say that Maxx certainly understands how to pack a lot of actions into one post.

   I laugh when I read that. Well, that makes the game interesting, isn't it?

   I have thought that the wing pattern might mean something to the butterfly (considering that butterfly vision might be different than human or sprite so that it can differentiate between different wing patterns) but I guess I have miss the mark on that.
   Isn't the process of mating includes meeting with others?

   I am going to put down a bachelors degree, although from what you said you might have a masters or an associates, which is a one point difference either way.

   I am fine with your ruling.

   The combined training in both telepathy skills would increase both, more slowly.

   How slower would that be?
   (Compared it to a linear scale where 0 would be instant level up and 1 is the normal level up. It would probably be more than 1 considering it is slower.)
   Would this be 2 on the linear scale or something in between 1 and 2?
   If I have 3 skills combine, will this be 3 or something in between 1 and 3?
   How is it calculated if I have cross-over between skills?
   What is the increase of my meditation according to the above linear scale considering I practice it in conjunction with other skills?

   although if you enter situations in which you need to use it a great deal I will count that as ongoing practice.

   Would the forest count as one (because there are all sort of things to be aware of for your survival)?

   I will practice reading sensory information and reading neural motor pattern skills with animals in Slot 8 in conjunction with my creature mind exploration and mind detection. This will make Slot 7 vacant.
   I wonder about the increase these 4 skills in linear scale and the cross-over effect of the skills.

   Can I use heighten awareness as a tool (thus raising the difficulty of practice) to practice intuition (by remembering the patterns that might hint a certain event) so that my previous practice is effective enough to advance to the next level?
   If I can, then I will practice this in the vacant Slot 7.

   The restful sleep skill should cover the deficit time to make as many skill improve normally. If I am not mistaken, this will make about 2.5 hours more time in the range of 5 days which would be 5/6 of a slot.
   Would the restful sleep still succeed every time if I want it to be more effective by increasing the praying time to 80 minutes thus cutting the time for sleep in half?

   1. You could mean that you intend to combine the smell of a target with the taste of the target to enhance your ability to taste it (which is something people do automatically) and that you intend to combine the feeling of the vibrations on your skin with the vibrations of your eardrum to enhance your ability to hear.
   2. You could mean that you intend to retask parts of your brain such that the information received by your olfactory sense would use the gustational sensory processors to enhance processing of olfactory data, and the auditory sense would use the tactile processors to process auditory data.
   3. Come to think of it, you could mean that you intend to feed additional data from the gustational and tactile sensors, respectively, to the olfactory and auditory processors, giving them more information.

   For sensory enhancement skill, I have tried (1) that is related to touch and hearing in the womb.
   For this, you rule that it is P5@1 altered sense.
   I also tried (2) that altered tactile processors to process auditory data from the touch which again bring us back to (1). The side effect of (2) is other non-related senses is probably lowered to compensate the use of the related sense.
   And (3) is the additional data that I got from tactile processors that is send to my auditory processors.
   So the sensory enhancement skill has a bit or all of the above.
   Remember to meditate first then do the above skill each day for a week until something happens (which would be succeeding at it or something else).

   If you are attempting to contact minds of creatures who are actually present but outside your knowledge, that will be a different skill from trying to contact all those creatures you know to be in the chain (either because you saw them or because you have contacted them before and know that they are touching).

   It is interesting to note that what if there a millions of bacteria on that tree.
   Do I contact them all?
   It is very tempting to try both but for this skill, it will be the creatures that I know to be in the chain (either because I saw them or because I have contacted them before and know that they are touching).
   I will meditate and try the skill above.
   For the other variant (which I will not attempt just yet), I think that the creature that I know in the chain will be prioritized as I can sync easier with them. For other creatures, maybe a GE roll and on a very bad one there is a spy or something among them perhaps.

   If you were in the body of someone who types much faster than you, it would still take a bit of exploration for your mind to find the pathways that trigger the typing that body knows how to do, but you would very quickly manage to get that body typing at its speed.

   Can read neural motor pattern be used to take advantage of this?

   Is there a skill to create neural pathways to a body to match the mind much faster than a regular practice would?
   Marionette telekinesis probably could do the above provided the user can master it well but that may be only a temporary solution.
   I wonder if neural pathway research can help in this matter. If I can reconfigure the new body neural pathway to suit the last one then probably the body and mind sync process will go on much smoother.

   I will also practice read neural motor pattern with Lelach and Morani to copy what they are doing better.

   I wonder what have changed in the new month.

   Tue Sep 15 2009 3:34 pm #
9. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   Technically, when you are practicing two skills, you have to invest the full time in each of them. Assuming a schedule of sixty hours over the course of one hundred days for a single skill, working on two skills should require one hundred twenty hours over one hundred days, and three skills should require one hundred eighty hours over one hundred days.

   And if your three skills are horseback riding, pistol shooting, and religion, that makes perfect sense, and you'll have to practice each of them as appropriate.

   The thing is, if you are practicing related skills, there is a degree to which the fact that they are related is relevant to the practice. For example, suppose you have Tae Kwon Do, Flying Kick, and Missile Avoidance. If you are practicing your flying kick and your Missile Avoidance, you are on some level practicing your Tae Kwon Do--but you're not practicing all of your Tae Kwon Do at those moments, only the parts that support these particular maneuvers. It thus makes sense that your Tae Kwon Do is going to improve some from practicing the other skills; the time you spend on those other skills gets extra credit as also spent on Tae Kwon Do. But it's not as if you're practicing all of your Tae Kwon Do techniques when you're practicing those two maneuvers; you need to practice aspects of the style that are not related to the maneuvers. At the same time, the stance and some of the forms are already included. So I would figure that part of the two hundred hours you spend practicing those two maneuvers counts also for the Tae Kwon Do, but you have to spend some additional time--less than another hundred hours--working on Tae Kwon Do directly.

   But there's no specific formula for this, because really there can't be. The combinations are too varied.

   If you tell me you're going to go to the shooting range and practice your rifle, shotgun, pistol, and crossbow, that's four different skills, but all very closely related to each other, and I could easily see allowing two hundred hours to cover all four skills simply for the amount of overlap involved. If you tell me you're going to the gym to practice your half dozen tightrope maneuvers, or your half dozen tumbling maneuvers, I can see how creating a floor routine would allow you to practice all of them in considerably less time than six hundred hours for each--two hundred hours to cover six so closely related skills might be reasonable. But if you want to practice a half dozen skills four of which are tumbling and two tightrope, it's not as easy to combine these--even though they are still related and use similar techniques. I might think two hundred fifty or three hundred hours is a better guess.

   So if you have crossover between skills, and you're combining them for practice purposes, I expect you to put more time into two skills than one, more into three than two, and so on, but how much more is going to depend on how similar I think the skills are.

   In the case of combining telepathathic skills, I would think that the additional amount of time for each additional telepathy would be considerably less than "+1"--maybe "+0.5" for the second, and less for each additional; but then, if you're including other "telepathic" skills in the same practice, such as mind reading techniques, those would be less like the basic telepathies but still telepathic, so maybe we're looking at "+0.75" for the first; on the other hand, if you've got multiple mind reading skills (which you do), once you've included one you've got the similarity of the others to the first.

   And I'm not going to put forward a hard-and-fast formula, precisely because I'm going to have to give consideration to that very subjective detail, of how like the other skills you are practicing is this one you want to include?

   As far as the increase in any skill, absent a teacher it takes roughly one hundred days to increase one intensity on your own. Discovering "new uses" can bump this a bit, but they require that you are using the skill actively (not in practice). The question comes to how many hours do you have to practice over that hundred days; and it's within my discretion to say that it takes a hundred twenty days because it's not enough hours, or to tell you after a few days that you are not practicing enough to feel any benefit in some or all of the skills you are targeting.

   Your consistent use of medidation in connection with other skills is sufficient to constitute regular practice on its own; you will improve in that as appropriate.

   Normal travel through the forest does not count as a situation in which you need to use your heightened awareness a great deal; but that's largely because you're a sprite, so you don't walk through the forest.

   For your intuition training, you need to make your program twice as hard in two ways for it to be adequate to reach a level 2 score. You probably will have trouble doing so in your present physical state.

   The restful sleep skill as I calculated it reads:

   1@1 Restful Sleep M+2@1 lay down and cross arms, thinking a prayer for good rest and subsequent alertness 10:00 TF +70SM

   This does not reduce the amount of sleep you get, but only assures that you sleep well and awaken rested. In my discussion behind the screens I considered what sit-mods I would give to skills that reduced the amount of sleep time you needed (from eight hours down to zero in 50% increments), and if you wish to design a prayer that reduces the amount of time you spend sleeping, we'll turn our attention to that. Since you said "ten minutes to one hour" I used the minimum time; each doubling of the time would give you +10 against any -10 you accrued for doubling the power.

   You have a concept of feeding tactile data into your auditory processing, but you do not succeed in making it work; you also don't figure out how to enhance your taste with your smell more than you already do.

   You do not manage to make contact with the tree or the bug, but given that you fail more than you succeed in telepathy, it's not surprising.

   "Read neural motor pattern" can give you an example of how to teach a body how to do something if you do not already know how; it does not help you identify how to access those neural patterns in a body that already has them if you take over that body.

   Is there a skill to create neural pathways to a body to match the mind much faster than a regular practice would?
   Marionette telekinesis probably could do the above provided the user can master it well but that may be only a temporary solution.

   You do not know the answer to that first question. You also have no knowledge or experience with telekinesis at this point, so you can't really know whether that would work, either.

   --M. J. Young

   Tue Sep 15 2009 11:48 pm #
10. 

    Max
    Member

    Since you said "ten minutes to one hour" I used the minimum time; each doubling of the time would give you +10 against any -10 you accrued for doubling the power.

    If I double the power until I can reduce my sleep time in half by doubling the time I need to take, will this be a new skill or a new use?
    I will try the restful sleep variation that reduces my sleeping time in half.

    The skill that I practice together do relate to one another or can be done together.
    It is up to you to decide on the whether it is enough time for the practice to improve the skill normally or not. If the skill is not improving normally, I will provide more time to it by adding more time (from restful sleep) to practice it.

    Example of my practice package:
    Slot 3: General telepathy package (includes telepathy to human/sprite and telepathy to animal/plant)
    Slot 8: General mind reading package (mind exploration, mind detection, read sensory and neural motor pattern)

    I wonder how much additional slot that I would need to improve the above normally.

    Can relying on intuition to catch something (because the eyes are closed) be a practice for intuition?
    If that is not enough, how about catching it in a certain way (catching the tip of the handle for example) which would only be possible when opening the eyes and knowing the right timing to do it?
    If this practice is enough to improve my intuition then I will practice it in Slot 7.

    Does heighten awareness help with the above practice?
    If I do not provide a specific slot for heighten awareness, does it still improve normally, slower than normal or not improve at all?

    I will meditate and try enhancing my hearing again (considering that I know the concept of feeding tactile data into my auditory processing now) each day for a week until something happens (which would be succeeding at it or something else).

    "Read neural motor pattern" can give you an example of how to teach a body how to do something if you do not already know how; it does not help you identify how to access those neural patterns in a body that already has them if you take over that body.

    Which is weird considering read neural motor pattern identifies how certain body part moves which would mean I have identified how to access those neural patterns (because I have control over that body) or did I miss something here?
    Do I need other skill just like read neural motor pattern to identify how to access certain neural patterns for the body I control?

    I will wait for next month to come.

    *****

    Month 8:
    Are there any changes in this new month?

    I wonder if telepathy chain should be a new use for general telepathy package or a new skill because because it includes all creature that are within chain of touch that I am aware of.
    It seem to be a new skill though because of the existence of sync time (which I think would be 10 minutes or longer according to the creatures involved), the use of touch and the act of closing one's eyes.
    If this seems to be the case, then I will meditate and try it again.

    Note of things to try: thought casting (to single or multiple), marionette control of own body (probably), manipulation of objects (body or psi), body glow manipulation.

    Wed Sep 16 2009 3:11 pm #
11. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    A skill that reduces the amount of sleep you need would be a new skill, not a new use. Note, though, that if you are "practicing" such a skill, you cannot count on it working on a regular basis. It is only by "using" the skill that we can say it does or does not work in a particular instance.

    You do learn the skill.

    Your skill practice combinations do appear to be effective, and you are benefiting from working with them together.

    Relying on your heightened awareness makes practicing intuition less effective, because you do not need the intuition to succeed. Also, relying on intuition to enable you to catch something that you dropped will not help, because there is no uncertainty/surprise element in when it is dropped. I feel I should make you aware that it is extremely difficult to design any program that will improve intuition at all, and the more so to design one which is twice as hard in two ways. In your present state it is unlikely that you could design the sort of program that would improve your intuition beyond its impressive present level that you could actually do, given your physical limitations.

    Heightened awareness will improve slowly if you do not have practice sessions.

    "Read neural motor pattern" can give you an example of how to teach a body how to do something if you do not already know how; it does not help you identify how to access those neural patterns in a body that already has them if you take over that body.

    Which is weird considering read neural motor pattern identifies how certain body part moves which would mean I have identified how to access those neural patterns (because I have control over that body) or did I miss something here?
    Do I need other skill just like read neural motor pattern to identify how to access certain neural patterns for the body I control?

    O.K., we're having trouble communicating this. Let me try again.

    Body skills are stored in the body; technically this is in the neural pathways within the body.

    You have the ability to read the information in those neural pathways, and so to get the pattern for how to perform a body skill. This requires that you read the targeted creature/person while they are performing the desired skill, so that you can see how the nerves are acting at that moment. It in essence allows you to "watch" a body skill, and to get the "feel" for how it is done.

    Using that pattern, you can teach your body, or a body that you control, how to duplicate that skill, provided it has the requisite body parts. You know how tails move from reading animals with tails, but you do not have one so you cannot do that. Were you to grow a tail, you could teach the tail how to move by following the pattern. Were you to watch an acrobat move through a flip, you would know the necessary feeling of a flip, and so have an example to follow in teaching yourself to do the flip.

    If you took over a body that had a tail but no skill to use it (unlikely as that sounds) you could use your example pattern to help you teach this body how to move the tail. Similarly, you could use the pattern you have of doing a flip to teach this other body to do a flip.

    If you took control of a body that already knows how to move the tail, the fact that you know how that feels is not helpful. The body already has the skill to move the tail. You are looking at an entirely new control panel, as it were, trying to figure out how the buttons are wired--and every control panel is different in some ways. So you're now the guy in the control room, and you need to figure out which connection here in the control room will activate the circuits that move the tail. Once you find the right button, you can make the tail do what it knows how to do, and do so at the skill level of the previous owner of the body, because the skill is in the body.

    Let us take for example running. You already know how to run, but this body you are in does not. You have an example of how to run, but the odds are against you because this body is so weak and untrained. The fact that you know exactly how to activate the neural pathways of the old body is irrelevant; those neural pathways do not yet exist here. Once you've got them in place, you will be able to run as well as this body can run.

    Let us now suggest that in this world there are also ostriches, flightless birds capable of running on two legs at speeds up to forty miles per hour. You somehow manage to move yourself into the body of such an ostrich--one that already has that skill. Once you find the right controls for running, you can make that body run at its full velocity at its learned skill level. You don't have to learn how to run that fast; you only have to find the right button.

    Now, there's probably a read minds skill that you could use to watch how a specific creature accesses its own skills--to watch how the ostrich pushes the button to run--but that information would be specific to that creature, and you would probably have to read it before you took possession of the body, unless you were fortunate enough to dredge it out of memory (looking for specific memories is very daunting, because there is so much information in memory and it is not well organized in most creatures).

    The best thing to do once in an unfamiliar body is try to figure out how the controls work by doing things. As you succeed, you learn how to use the body the way it knows how to do things.

    I am going to have to defer month 8 for a future post, and also defer the question of whether you succeed in enhancing your hearing; there is a separate thread which will explain why.

    --M. J. Young

    Thu Sep 17 2009 1:26 am #
12. 

    Max
    Member

    If the reduce sleep skill does not work on regular basis, I will double the time yet again at least until I can get to improve it normally which is 36 minutes per day.
    Does this count as practicing my other restful sleep variant too?

    Your skill practice combinations do appear to be effective, and you are benefiting from working with them together.

    Tell me if I need an extra slot to practice it if the one slot I provided is not enough.

    Relying on your heightened awareness makes practicing intuition less effective, because you do not need the intuition to succeed.

    Isn't intuition the feeling you got when you are more aware of your surrounding?
    Does this mean lowering my awareness of environment makes practicing intuition more effective?

    because there is no uncertainty/surprise element in when it is dropped

    How about catching falling leave or other object that is not dropped by me?

    I feel I should make you aware that it is extremely difficult to design any program that will improve intuition at all, and the more so to design one which is twice as hard in two ways. In your present state it is unlikely that you could design the sort of program that would improve your intuition beyond its impressive present level that you could actually do, given your physical limitations.

    My willpower attribute makes me attracted to challenge and to interesting things. This is like a challenge to me to make one in my current physical state.
    By the way, intuition is more to a mental state right?
    Can I play guessing game to increase my intuition (such as guessing the location of the next animal that comes to me at certain range which I think would be my heighten awareness range so that my intuition will do all the work)?
    One way to make it harder is guessing what animal will it be.
    The second way to make it harder will be the detail concerning whether I have tagged the animal, and if I have not, what other distinct characteristics will it have compared to the animal that I have tagged.
    If this is suitable practice to improve my intuition, I will practice it in Slot 7.

    If you took over a body that had a tail but no skill to use it (unlikely as that sounds) you could use your example pattern to help you teach this body how to move the tail.

    Does the skill here refer to the new body not having the body skill to move the tail or my mind do not have the skill to move a tail?
    The unlikely case seem to suit newborns.
    Can I get the example pattern from the body itself (from new body) using read neural motor pattern provided the body knows how to move in a certain way?
    What is the reason for that answer (for the above question)?

    Now, there's probably a read minds skill that you could use to watch how a specific creature accesses its own skills--to watch how the ostrich pushes the button to run--but that information would be specific to that creature, and you would probably have to read it before you took possession of the body, unless you were fortunate enough to dredge it out of memory

    Would this skill be body control retrocognition (or tutorial)?
    Can read neural motor pattern achieve the same result as the above skill or be an example for the above skill?

    The fact that you know exactly how to activate the neural pathways of the old body is irrelevant; those neural pathways do not yet exist here.

    Would neural pathway generation skill (healing variation) be helpful to resolve this problem?
    Or would the above be categorized as psychic surgery?

    The best thing to do once in an unfamiliar body is try to figure out how the controls work by doing things.

    Would body simulation such as in virtual reality (or something like that such as in dream) help in that?

    Mind and body discussion sure is interesting.

    A botch on meditation huh. This should be interesting.
    If I can continue like normal after that then resume what I am doing (which would be trying for meditate and altered sense) and if not I will deal with it.

    I wonder if telepathy chain should be a new use for general telepathy package or a new skill because because it includes all creature that are within chain of touch that I am aware of.
    It seem to be a new skill though because of the existence of sync time (which I think would be 10 minutes or longer according to the creatures involved), the use of touch and the act of closing one's eyes.

    I wonder what is the answer for the above questions.

    Month 8 reminder:
    telepathy chain, thought casting (to single or multiple), marionette control of own body (probably), manipulation of objects (body or psi), body glow manipulation.

    Thu Sep 17 2009 3:12 pm #
13. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    If the reduce sleep skill does not work on regular basis,

    This is rather complicated. Your chance of success with this skill at present is 99%. Your character cannot know the exact chance of success, only an estimate based on how often he succeeds or fails. It is entirely possible that using this three or four hundred times in "practice" over a hundred days you would never fail, and you would kick your SAL to 1@2 and make it 100%--but it is also possible that you would fail a dozen times on bad dice luck.

    I think it necessary that we state that you are practicing it, and you might once in a while have it fail to work, but usually you get the extra hours awake.

    In any case, if you're going to design a new version if this "does not work on a regular basis", we'll have to play out rolling it for a while so you can see whether or not it does.

    Can I play guessing game to increase my intuition (such as guessing the location of the next animal that comes to me at certain range which I think would be my heighten awareness range so that my intuition will do all the work)?
    One way to make it harder is guessing what animal will it be.
    The second way to make it harder will be the detail concerning whether I have tagged the animal, and if I have not, what other distinct characteristics will it have compared to the animal that I have tagged.
    If this is suitable practice to improve my intuition, I will practice it in Slot 7.

    I'm really a tough sell on intuition training programs; most of them do not work. I'm looking at this one, and thinking that guessing without any hints at all is just guessing, not intuitive in any way; and I'm thinking that someone is trying to argue me into accepting an attribute improvement program for a 2@ attribute without really addressing the problems involved.

    Yes, intuition is essentially non-physical. I've got an article on it at RPGnet, Intuition and Surprise', which discusses my understanding of the attribute. It should also help demonstrate why it is so difficult to "practice" intuition: everything about it involves things you do not think about doing and do not do intentionally, and thus a training program would have to be something you could set up that would cause you to collect information and process it without ever thinking about doing so or deciding to do so.

    Now, I remember that you set up an intuition training program which brought you to 1@10; I don't remember what it was. But maybe if we start by you restating what it was that I approved for intuition training at level one, we can figure out how to make that challenging enough to work at level two.

    O.K., let me look at the neural pathways problem again.

    Out there in the body you've got these neural patterns that show how a body skill is done. Body skills are learned by the body. For this reason, if you change bodies, you have to use the skills in the new body.

    You have a mind/body interface. No one really knows where it is or how it works, but somehow your mind sends signals to your body, telling your body to activate the specific action it knows how to perform.

    Those connections between your mind and your body are created as you learn the skills, and they are unique to you. That is, the way your mind accesses the movement you call walking is distinct from the way my mind accesses the same movement.

    You can read the neural pattern of me walking, and compare it to how you walk, but it will probably be very similar, unless I walk with a limp or am bowlegged or have my feet toed in or out or something.

    If you were moved to my body, the problem is not that you don't know how to walk, and it's not that my body doesn't know how to walk; it's that your mind/body interface and mine are different, and you've got to figure out how my mind tells my body to walk. The best way to do that is to attempt to tell my body to walk, and see if you can make it work, and thereafter remember that that's how you make this body walk.

    Now, you could probably use your mind reading skill to watch the way my mind tells my body to walk, but you would have to do it while I was controlling my body and making it walk. That means you'd have to do it before you were in control of my body. Now, that's fine, but you'd also have to have read every single non-autonomic action--how do you make my mouth speak, or chew; how do you hold my breath; how do you raise my arms. You'd need a vast library of my motions observed, and then it would only be useful for accessing my body if you were in my body.

    There would also be memories in my mind of how I made my body walk, and you could read my memories searching for this. Really, reading memories looking for something that specific is a pretty ridiculous task. It's sort of like stacking all the books in the Library of Congress randomly on tables, stripping the titles of the bindings, and then trying to find a specific Mark Twain quote by thumbing through them. Of course, the probabilities of the example are so outrageously bad that we wouldn't even attempt to copy them in the game, but you would be dependent on getting a good general effects roll for whether you found the access code and how long it took to find it.

    It would be much simpler just to say that you're going to attempt to walk, and see whether it works.

    *****

    After a very strange period of meditation, you attempt to retask your tactile sense to supplement your auditory, but it goes entirely wrong. Your hearing shuts down completely, and now you feel, like a buzzing on your skin except it's in your ear, the vibration caused by the rustle of the leaves.

    The condition lasts for a little over an hour and then returns to normal.

    --M. J. Young

    Fri Sep 18 2009 4:58 am #
14. 

    Max
    Member

    The chance that I have to practice it in 100 days without failing even once (provided that my math is not wrong) is 0.99^100 or about 36.6%. It would probably save your time if you roll for that probability and if it exceeds 36 (or 37 if you round it up) then I will probably make the new skill (provided that no changes to probability of success happens during that time).
    You could also try 0.99^30 or about 73.97% to check for the success streak for month to month basis. This would mean you have to roll it once per month and if the roll exceeds 73 (or 74 if you round it up) then I will probably make the new skill in that month.
    By the way, can a skill practiced 20 minutes daily improve normally within 100 days?

    *****

    From your old post:

    Yes, cultivating an awareness of the surrounding area can improve intuition.

    Does this mean cultivating an awareness subconsciously?

    The intuition practice that you agree on:

    So for your intuition practice, you intend to observe consciously the details of your surroundings and attempt to commit them to memory, to build up the habit of doing so unconsciously. That sounds like a reasonable approach.

    Can the hint come from heighten awareness then (so that it will not be just guessing)?

    *****

    Now, you could probably use your mind reading skill to watch the way my mind tells my body to walk, but you would have to do it while I was controlling my body and making it walk. That means you'd have to do it before you were in control of my body. Now, that's fine, but you'd also have to have read every single non-autonomic action--how do you make my mouth speak, or chew; how do you hold my breath; how do you raise my arms. You'd need a vast library of my motions observed, and then it would only be useful for accessing my body if you were in my body.

    That would be interesting. Can I access this information through retrocognition if I am already in that body provided that the body have been controlled that way previously?

    There would also be memories in my mind of how I made my body walk, and you could read my memories searching for this.

    Can I read this if I already inside said body?
    Where did the other mind go?
    Did it become my subconscious mind or did the other mind transfer out of the body making me unable to read that specific memories?

    the probabilities of the example are so outrageously bad that we wouldn't even attempt to copy them in the game, but you would be dependent on getting a good general effects roll for whether you found the access code and how long it took to find it.

    That is if I search it normally, but what if I search it using my intuition?
    If your intuition is good enough you can make the improbable to be possible.
    The above is probably an example of intuition for the extraordinary or the out-of-this-world being. Anything that have been done (even randomly) leaves some sort of hint behind and this hint is what intuition catches on to.

    Telling your body to move in a similar body type would be easy but what if the body is unlike your previous body in any way (alien life form) and to move it (in any way) some complex instruction must be feed to the mind/body interface?
    Does this mean that if I can read mind/body interface instruction language (MBIIL) from the previous owner or reverse engineer the working of the mind/body interface (using skills, intuition or example from other similar bodies), I can control the body effectively?

    *****

    Feeling sound? Very interesting.
    Can I feel the texture of rustling leaves and locate where the feeling come from?
    I will also try to say anything that I know (that is in my vocabulary) and remember the feeling of those words.
    I wonder if I could replicate the feeling of those words with hand signals.
    I wonder if I can practice this skill.
    If I can, I will practice this skill in Slot 7 (while waiting the verdict for my intuition practice).
    I wonder if this skill can be an example or a new use for other altered sense skill.

    *****

    Month 8 (finally):

    I wonder if telepathy chain should be a new use for general telepathy package or a new skill because because it includes all creature that are within chain of touch that I am aware of.
    It seem to be a new skill though because of the existence of sync time (which I think would be 10 minutes or longer according to the creatures involved), the use of touch and the act of closing one's eyes.
    I will meditate and try the chain telepathy again and this time remember to sync with the creatures involved (that are within touch chain) with my eyes closed while activating the skill (by saying "Telepathy chain, connect!" in my mind).

    I wonder if I can stand longer (supported) or stand unsupported now.
    I wonder what have changed in this new month.

    Note of things to try: thought casting (to single or multiple), marionette control of own body (probably), manipulation of objects (body or psi), body glow manipulation, read mind/body interface (if I do not have it yet).

    Fri Sep 18 2009 2:26 pm #
15. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    I could roll as you suggest, but I think instead I'm going to leave it that you normally get the success and only roll if for some reason you are specifically depending on it.

    Actually, it's been rendered moot--raising your bias from 3@9 to 5@1 means that your bias adjustment goes from 2x3@-+6 to 2x5@-+10, so you now have an automatic success on the skill.

    *****

    O.K., so in your previous training program you were training yourself to notice your surroundings, doing it consciously in the hope that this would result in you doing it unconsciously. You've reached the remarkable level of 1@10.

    In order to cross the level barrier to 2@, you have to make this program twice as hard in two ways (double doubled). One way could reasonably be that you would put twice as much time into it; but I do not see how you could put four times as much time into it. In fact, I've been assuming that the time put into it typically three hours per day; doubling that once means that you would be focusing on being aware of your environment six hours per day. Doubling it twice would mean that you would be shutting out most of everything else so that you could spend twelve hours every day familiarizing yourself with your environment in great detail. I don't think you could manage that level of focus.

    That means that even with six hours per day on intuition, you need to double what you're doing in some other way. That's not something I see being done easily. That doesn't close the door to discussion, but it does mean you're going to have to put a lot of thought into this--there's no snap answer here.

    *****

    Can I access this information through retrocognition if I am already in that body provided that the body have been controlled that way previously?

    I don't know that I've ever had anyone try retrocognitive mind reading. I suppose it could be done, but you've never done anything retrocognitive as yet.

    Can I read this if I already inside said body?
    Where did the other mind go?
    Did it become my subconscious mind or did the other mind transfer out of the body making me unable to read that specific memories?

    We're getting way ahead of everything here. I can probably list off the top of my head a dozen ways you could wind up controlling another body, and which way you do it is going to make a big difference to where the other mind is and whether you can read it.

    I'm also not in the habit of answering what would or might happen if a character successfully accomplished something he is not attempting.

    *****

    When you are feeling sound you can determine the direction according to the surfaces of your body the sound impacts, although this is less focused than the stereo direction sense you have with your ears. That might be a matter of practice, as your hearing is a bit better than your new tactile auditory skill.

    When you speak, the impact of the vibrations on your skin are converted by your brain into audio reproductions of the sound. The sound is muffled, having a lot more bass and very poor response to the treble consonants. You can practice this skill.

    You probably have a better chance of developing other altered sense skills now that you've accomplished one.

    *****

    As you reach eight months old, your depth perception is finally coming into focus, so that you can tell how far things are by looking at them. Also, you are able to stand indefinitely while holding onto the tree, and your diction is improving.

    You also are now suffering pain in your jaw. Lelach says it's natural--your teeth are cutting through. You cry quite a bit from this.

    --M. J. Young

    Sun Sep 20 2009 2:09 am #
16. 

    Max
    Member

    I think instead I'm going to leave it that you normally get the success and only roll if for some reason you are specifically depending on it.

    O.K., then. As long as I get enough practice time for the skills that I am practicing.
    Tell me if you think I went over the limit for practice time.

    Actually, it's been rendered moot--raising your bias from 3@9 to 5@1 means that your bias adjustment goes from 2x3@-+6 to 2x5@-+10, so you now have an automatic success on the skill.

    For a magical skill too?
    This reminds me that I have yet to learn the psi skill (which is Reduce Sleep P6@1) successfully that is similar to the magic skill (which is Reduce Sleep M+2@1).

    *****

    Can I double (or probably more) the info I get normally by using heighten awareness, enhance sensory information, focus sense, various type of mind reading and telepathy thus shortening the time for intuition practice?

    I wonder if I have a subconscious communication (or telepathy) to self skill or do I already have this skill due to hypnosis (which is a way to communicate directly to subconscious mind)?
    Could I use the above skill to make the data I collected sink into subconsciousness faster thus shortening the time I need for intuition practice?

    *****

    Is retrocognitive mind reading similar to (or the same as) enhance memory recollection?
    If it is not the same skill, can enhance memory recollection be an example to retrocognitive mind reading?

    We're getting way ahead of everything here. I can probably list off the top of my head a dozen ways you could wind up controlling another body, and which way you do it is going to make a big difference to where the other mind is and whether you can read it.

    I guess I have to deal with it according to situation then. I just like to think of the various possibilities just like various moves, techniques or formations in strategic games (such as chess).

    Can I read mind/body interface of my own body or is this a new skill?
    If this a new skill, can read neural motor pattern be an example for it?

    *****

    Even if it is less focused than stereo direction sense, the large body surface could probably predict the whereabouts of the sound origin better if I practice it considering I can do triangulation of the sound using my whole body.

    Very interesting take on the conversion of sound to tactile sensation.
    I would practice this skill (in Slot 7) until I can reproduce the sound in my brain better.
    I would also try to replicate the feeling of the sound by clapping my hand in a specific manner.

    If I said I want to attempt other kinds of altered sense, do you rule this as practice or do I have to roll for each of it?

    *****

    your depth perception is finally coming into focus, so that you can tell how far things are by looking at them.

    I wonder if this improves my rate of my mind tagging or help me to detect new pattern more easily in detect material skill.
    I also wonder how much creatures (sprites, animals or plants) that I have tagged or have contacted through telepathy so far.
    I wonder what new information did I get through telepathy.
    I also wonder what new patterns that I have detected through my detect material skill.

    Teething problems huh. This calls for a new skill.
    I will meditate then touch the area of pain with my hand and try to massage it to soothe the pain for about 30 minutes. During that time, I will close my eyes and hypnotize myself with happy thoughts and will associate this with the area of pain so that the pain will be eliminated with happy thoughts.

    If the above does not work then I will touch the area of pain and massage it again for about 30 minutes but this this time I will pray so that the pain for the area that I touch will be more bearable.
    I think this would be Counter Pain M+2@1 that covers one person with touch variant.

    Speaking of holding onto tree, I wonder if I have done the below:

    I wonder if telepathy chain should be a new use for general telepathy package or a new skill because because it includes all creature that are within chain of touch that I am aware of.
    It seem to be a new skill though because of the existence of sync time (which I think would be 10 minutes or longer according to the creatures involved), the use of touch and the act of closing one's eyes.
    I will meditate and try the chain telepathy again and this time remember to sync with the creatures involved (that are within touch chain) with my eyes closed while activating the skill (by saying "Telepathy chain, connect!" in my mind).

    If I manage to make the teething pain better, I will meditate and try the above skill.

    *****

    Month 9:

    Are there any changes in this month?
    I wonder if my hair or eyes have changed to their permanent color.
    I will ask Lelach about this.
    The autumn should be close to ending by now. It probably be cold by now.

    Note of things to try: thought casting (to single or multiple), marionette control of own body (probably), manipulation of objects (body or psi), body glow manipulation.

    Sun Sep 20 2009 2:03 pm #
17. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Oooo--no, I didn't realize that this was a prayer. You're still at 99% on that.

    Can I double (or probably more) the info I get normally by using heighten awareness, enhance sensory information, focus sense, various type of mind reading and telepathy thus shortening the time for intuition practice?

    The problem with this plan is that several of those are skills which would have to be rolled in ordinary use, and you're trying to train yourself to use them subconsciously. That would mean you were using them all the time without thinking about using them. I might allow that if you were expert level at them all, but at amateur level, any time the success of a skill matters at all, it has to be rolled. Since your training in your intuition involves teaching yourself to use the skills constantly, they would all have to be rolled, and chained, that is, for each roll I would have to determine the duration to its natural termination and roll it again at that time. Making your intuition practice dependent on the subconscious continuous use of these skills is not something you can do as an amateur in those skills.

    Your telepathy to sprites will work to contact yourself, but that that's not different from thinking, really. You can also read your own mind, which is what you do with the enhanced memory skill.

    However, I think that consciously implanting information into your subconscious mind is not going to work, for several reasons including that just mentioned (you're an amateur).

    I am not certain what you mean by retrocognitive mind reading. If you mean that you want to read someone's memories and find out what they have thought in the past, that would be mind reading; it would involve sorting through everything they have in memory looking for the details you want from a specific time and place. If you mean that you want to send your mind into the past and read what someone was thinking at that moment in the past, this is a retrocognitive skill--an ability to get information from the past in essence by viewing the past. It involves a kind of time travel. You would then be combining a mind reading skill with a retrocognitive skill. That's not remotely like anything you (or anyone else who has ever played at my table) have done. It's not impossible, but it would involve manipulating time, and that's very difficult.

    Can I read mind/body interface of my own body or is this a new skill?
    If this a new skill, can read neural motor pattern be an example for it?

    Assuming that what you are asking is whether you can watch what your mind does to activate your body actions, that would not be a read neural motor pattern variant at all. It would be a read minds variant, but the dice say that you can't do it with the general read minds skill you know, but you are able to learn how to do it as a separate skill.

    I would also try to replicate the feeling of the sound by clapping my hand in a specific manner.

    Clapping your hands as rapidly as you can creates a low-pitched thunder strongly focused in your hands.

    I would have to roll for each new altered sense skill you attempted to develop.

    You would not be able to count the number of animals you have tagged. You have tagged a few score of plants, but only a very few sprites. You don't see many other than your parents and your grandparents and an occasional friend of one of them.

    Mind tagging is not affected by your vision, because you could see them in direct line of sight before now. Nor does it help with the detect materials skill, because it was never dependent on how well you could see anything.

    Most of what animals think about is where to get food and how to stay safe.

    Most of your materials patterns are rocks, plants, animals, and dirt.

    In your massage and psionic self-hypnosis, are you attempting to reduce/eliminate the pain or to enable yourself to endure it?

    You succeed in connecting to the tree and several insects presently on it.

    It is still month 8.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Sep 22 2009 5:18 am #
18. 

    Max
    Member

    In your massage and psionic self-hypnosis, are you attempting to reduce/eliminate the pain or to enable yourself to endure it?

    Have you felt happy before that you forget about the pain you have?
    Well, it is like that.

    Tue Sep 22 2009 5:36 am #
19. 

    Max
    Member

    Well, the above post was my attempt to see if you notice the reply before you post in "Behind the Screens" (because today I coincidentally log on during your posts). I would have posted the above post in "Behind the Screens" to see if you notice but I think that would change what you would write so I stop myself from doing so. I will discuss more about the massage and psionic self-hypnosis topic below (so it would be advisable to answer it then).

    *****

    Oooo--no, I didn't realize that this was a prayer. You're still at 99% on that.

    Do I have to roll for them (everyday or according to my calculation) or only roll for it in certain situation?

    *****

    Making your intuition practice dependent on the subconscious continuous use of these skills is not something you can do as an amateur in those skills.

    How about collecting the info consciously using those skills during practice and by doing so shortens the time for intuition practice?

    However, I think that consciously implanting information into your subconscious mind is not going to work, for several reasons including that just mentioned (you're an amateur).

    Does this mean that I can implant information into my subconscious mind if I have expert level at hypnosis?
    Can I do the above by creating a new skill?

    Can catching leaves with my eyes close (during autumn) using the skills that I have (in practice session) be considered a practice for intuition?

    *****

    If you mean that you want to read someone's memories and find out what they have thought in the past, that would be mind reading; it would involve sorting through everything they have in memory looking for the details you want from a specific time and place.

    Do I have the above skill?

    If you mean that you want to send your mind into the past and read what someone was thinking at that moment in the past, this is a retrocognitive skill--an ability to get information from the past in essence by viewing the past.

    What if I reconstruct what the mind is thinking in the past from the hint that I got from present time?

    It's not impossible, but it would involve manipulating time, and that's very difficult.

    An interesting discussion.
    What is time?
    Does time really exist or is it an illusion of ever-changing space?
    How about manipulating space so that it looked like the time have been manipulated?
    How can we tell the difference?

    *****

    you are able to learn how to do it as a separate skill.

    How good am I in reading mind/body interface?
    Can I practice this with other creatures?
    I will practice it with my other read minds variant.

    *****

    Does it count as saying something (adding bonus to skill success) if I clap using Morse code (or some other code that represents language)?

    Mind tagging is not affected by your vision, because you could see them in direct line of sight before now.

    Isn't my mind tagging rate affected by how well I can perceive depth or knowing the relative location of the creature I wanted to tag?

    I will remember where the animal get their food and what they do to stay safe (such as hiding at a certain place).

    Speaking about material, I always wonder how long is the metal needle that Lelach got from human.
    Is it a normal human needle or a short needle made especially for sprite?

    *****

    In the previous post, I have described that my massage and psionic self-hypnosis makes me forget about the pain that I have. The hormone released by the happy thoughts intercepts the pain signal that is send to the brain thus eliminating the pain (or reducing the pain if the pain signal are so strong that some of it manage to go through).
    Enduring the pain would be a different skill because the pain would still be felt but I am content or indifferent to it that it will not bother me when I am doing something else. It is a good skill to try though. I will keep this in mind.

    *****

    You succeed in connecting to the tree and several insects presently on it.

    Can I practice this skill with Lelach and the butterfly (Uno)?
    If I can, I will practice it with the other telepathy variant.

    *****

    Month 9:

    Are there any changes in this month?
    I wonder if my hair or eyes have changed to their permanent color.
    Is there anything Lelach would teach me (such as manipulating body glow to keep warm) so that I can get ready for the winter?
    I will ask Lelach about the above.

    Tue Sep 22 2009 10:38 am #
20. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Concerning late posts, the rules that maintain my sanity are that once I've opened the forum, I answer the posts that are there. I sometimes choose to answer posts that come later, but never game play posts. This is because in the past I've been in the bind that two or three players will hang to the forum and keep posting such that as soon as I've finished answering one, there's another waiting, and I wind up answering posts for hours more than I ought to have. Thus it does not matter exactly where you post, although I am more likely to see a post made to a thread after my last post than before it, so a post to the Behind the Screens thread while I am still answering game posts might be overlooked.

    Concerning the sleep prayer, you need only roll if you specifically plan to use the extra time awake for some purpose. As long as "almost every day" is sufficient, we can ignore the rolls and assume that on the day that you miss the roll you had less time awake.

    There certainly would be a skill for consciously implanting information into your subconscious. The problem is, this would not be an intuitive action. Intuition involves gathering information into the subconscious without any conscious effort to do so, and processing it without any conscious thought, such that your answers come as feelings or hunches or other non-specific sensations.

    Your practice program for intuition involved a work-around. That work-around worked something like this: you would consciously remind yourself to notice things around you, and then stop reminding yourself and let your attentiveness continue unconsciously; and when you realized that you were no longer being attentive of your environment, you would consciously push yourself again to be aware of it, and again leave the attention "running" as you turned your mind elsewhere. Thus it was a kind of "remind myself to pay attention" practice that was conditioning you to be aware of your surroundings by correcting yourself whenever you found that you were not aware of your surroundings. Ultimately, whenever you were awake you were attending to the minutia around you, picking up details most sprites would not notice.

    You have pushed yourself as far as you can by that method. You have reached the ninety-fifth percentile: only one person in twenty has an intuition has good as yours. You are trying to push it to the ninety-eighth percentile, one person in fifty, but the methods available to you at present are not going to be adequate to do that.

    As for catching falling leaves, with your current hand/eye it is doubtful you could catch many with your eyes open, and with your current level of mobility it would not be easy to move to where they are falling if they're not coming directly to you, so this is not likely to be a good plan. Besides, leaves fall slowly enough that you have plenty of warning that they're coming down, so it's more likely that this is hand/eye practice. Catching nuts and certain other seeds that fall would be good for intuition, except that they do not fall frequently enough for you to design practice around them, and again you can't easily get where they are or manage to grab them while they fall.

    Besides, you are right--it is late November, and your father carries you into a hollow in a tree. The hollow is lined with grass and leaves, most of them relatively green and fresh. Large quantities of nuts and berries and other foods are brought inside, lining some of the walls, and something like a curtain spread over the opening. Lelach says that in a few weeks the opening will be sealed against the cold, and you will be sealed inside for the winter.

    You have never used your mind reading skill to sort through memories, so we do not know whether that is a function of the skill you have or a distinct skill.

    The abilities of your mind reading skill are being determined by your attempts to use it in new ways. Thus when you attempted to use mind reading to access sensory data and failed the first time, the conclusion was that you needed a different skill to read sensory data. If you attempt to read memories with your basic mind reading skill (which is primarily for reading current conscious thought) and succeed, then it will be a new use for the basic skill; if on that first attempt you fail, it will mean that you cannot read memories with this skill and need another.

    As a mechanical note, the better you become at mind reading the more likely you are to be successful. This means that if you practice at the aspects you already know so as to improve the skill ability level, you will increase the likelihood that other applications will be successfully included in the base skill. It also means that if you learn higher biased skills, your own bias will rise leading to a higher probability of success on such rolls.

    You can practice reading mind/body interface with other creatures, but there are a few caveats:

    1. You are currently inside the tree, and unable to see new creatures. This limits you to those very few creatures who are in sight plus those already contacted ("tagged") whose frequencies you know.
    2. The vast majority of creatures you contacted are now dead, dying, or dormant, as winter approaches. Some of the butterflies and some of the birds and a few of the larger animals are still out there somewhere (and you can contact them without knowing where), but of the larger animals you probably have one deer; anything carnivorous would have been driven away by your parents before it got near enough for you to see.
    3. The tree is not doing much. Indeed, most of the plants you've contacted are now dormant.
    4. Although your animal telepathy works well to contact these other creatures, your ability to read any part of their minds is much less reliable than either telepathy to them or reading the minds of other sprites.

    That pretty much leaves your parents as targets.

    Does it count as saying something (adding bonus to skill success) if I clap using Morse code (or some other code that represents language)?

    Boy, you ask the tough ones. That's actually quite brilliant, and I would have to say that it would mean

    • both a speech and an action component;
    • probably bonused for "forceful" (it's difficult to clap quietly as a form of communication);
    • possibly for appropriate words;
    • certainly for a magical language;
    • +3 for involvement a second hand.

    On the other hand, the casting time of the skill would have to be long enough for you actually to clap out such a message. (Also, clapping is not a really good way to send Morse code--the clacker used in the nineteenth century had a distinct "click" and "clack" to mark the beginning and ending of the element, such that "click/clack" was a dot and "click..clack" was a dash (and in some coding variants, "click.....clack" was a long dash). To truly send that kind of code involving long and short pulses, you need a means of marking end of pulse as distinct from end of character/end of word. Every dot and every dash thus requires two claps, with distinct sounds, although it could be done by, for example, slapping fingers and then palm. It would also take a lot of practice, and a separate skill check for doing the code correctly would probably be rolled as long as you were an amateur at it.)

    Your mind tagging was and is entirely dependent on line of sight: as long as you were looking directly at the unknown target creature, you did not need to know the distance to it. Once the creature was tagged, you could find it without seeing it.

    Good question on the needle. It is perhaps the smallest needle a human would use, about one and a half inches long, which for a sprite is very large indeed, about the length of a dagger relatively speaking.

    Your new skill reduces the pain some the first time you use it. It also has helped you understand principles in a new area of bodily healing.

    You indicated a desire to practice the chain telepathy with Lelach and the butterfly. This seems to be a different application, as Lelach and the butterfly would not be touching each other; further, Lelach is a sprite and the butterfly is an animal, and you have never contacted a sprite with the animal telepathy. The skill can in theory be stretched to do what you want here, but it's two things you've never done before--incorporating non-animal targets in animal telepathy, and making simultaneous contact with two known minds that are not in physical contact with each other. We would have to roll for whether it works before you could use it for "practice".

    Are you planning to keep using the new pain reduction skill for your teething pain, or simply practice it and suffer whenever it does not work, or try something else?

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Sep 22 2009 11:11 pm #
21. 

    Max
    Member

    rules that maintain my sanity

    I knew there was a good reason to stop myself from posting then.

    The next step for intuition practice would probably require me to use heighten awareness (or other skills) subconsciously but this would mean that I have to be expert in heighten awareness (or other skills) right?
    I would like to create a new practice package for Slot 7 that is named Enhanced Sensory Perception (ESP) package that will include heighten awareness and altered sense. I would also include focus sense in this package but will focus more on the other skills for now.

    I wonder if catching rain or water drops (from a leaking bucket) would be a good intuition practice to substitute the practice for catching nuts or other seeds.

    I will practice my read mind/body interface with any creature that I can target it with (including the one that I have tagged outside that is still alive and active) in Slot 8 with my other mind reading variant (may become more effective if combined with read neural motor pattern practice).

    I will practice the clapping, drumming other objects and sign languages as a way to communicate in Slot 9. This will be Body Communication package.
    Thanks for the additional info.

    about the length of a dagger relatively speaking.

    With a needle like that, I wonder if a sprite need to look elsewhere for a dagger. (Grins.)
    No wonder Lelach have a hard time sewing.
    I wonder if using the bone needle would be easier because it can be made much smaller.
    By the way, do I have the pattern for the metal needle or bone needle?

    I wonder if the metal needle can reflect my image back to me thus revealing me the color of eyes and hair. The color probably be permanent right about now.
    If the above cannot be done, I will ask Lelach about it.

    This seems to be a different application, as Lelach and the butterfly would not be touching each other; further, Lelach is a sprite and the butterfly is an animal, and you have never contacted a sprite with the animal telepathy.

    Consider a situation where Lelach is bringing me to touch a plant where the butterfly (or any other insect) lands on. Would that be a practice for telepathy chain?
    Would my familiarity with Lelach eliminate the penalty (if present) if I use telepathy chain skill (based on animal telepathy)?
    Does touching the winter tree when Lelach is in it (and Morani is outside) be considered as practice for telepathy chain?

    It also has helped you understand principles in a new area of bodily healing.

    I wonder what these principles are.
    Can these principles help me in healing myself when injured?
    Do I know how to make the skill more effective?

    I will practice my new pain reduction in Slot 10.
    I wonder how long is the duration for this skill (considering the 30 minutes time for massage).
    If the duration of the skill is over and it does not work (when I practice it) I will try the below:

    I will touch the area of pain and massage it again for about 30 minutes but this this time I will pray so that the pain for the area that I touch will be more bearable.
    I think this would be Counter Pain M+2@1 variant that covers one person and be done in 30 minutes because of the massage to the pain area.

    I wonder if practicing my mind reading skills together can make me tag more creature.
    Did you know why I choose to practice read visual sensory information (disregarding the fact that it may become a separate skill for mind reading) and detect minds together?
    Can I tag more new creature (through the eye of the creature that I have tagged) during mind reading package practice?

    Well, is there anything that I could help (such as finding things) or Lelach wanted to teach so that we can go through winter smoothly?
    I wonder if we have enough diapers for the winter.
    What is used to keep the water supply during the winter?
    I wonder if there is a place where water (melted snow) could seep into the tree thus creating a natural water source (inside the tree) during the winter.

    Wed Sep 23 2009 4:07 pm #
22. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    You do have patterns for the metal of the needle and for the material of the bone.

    The surface of the metal needle is not polished or flat, and does not reflect adequately for you to see yourself in it.

    What colors did I give for the eyes and hair of your parents?

    Consider a situation where Lelach is bringing me to touch a plant where the butterfly (or any other insect) lands on. Would that be a practice for telepathy chain?

    I can't think of a reason for such a situation to occur, and particularly now that you are inside for the winter, but I can see it happening.

    As far as Lelach being inside the tree, she rarely if ever touches the exterior walls, and is generally in contact with the padding that lines the floor. You touch the walls frequently, as they support you when you stand. That's not as easy to do in the soft grass and leaves, but you're getting there.

    As far as practicing chain telepathy, at present it's an application of animal telepathy (that has not been used with sprites) and so improves as you improve that. Other variants might be possible, but you've not tried any yet.

    What you learned from your effort to reduce pain does give you insight into how you might use your mind to heal your body. However, teething pain does not constitute an injury per se. As far as making the skill more effective, practice is the best you can do at this point.

    I wonder how long is the duration for this skill (considering the 30 minutes time for massage).

    Hmmmm--I had not included the massage as part of the skill.

    The usual treatment is RS minutes, that is, you take a moment to focus on reducing your pain, and the die roll gives both the degree (percent) of reduction and the duration of the effect. Physical actions associated with mental process are usually of the nature of "this will help point my mind to the right place". But a thirty minute massage will last longer than the average duration of effect for an amateur (at present your best roll would be just over forty).

    Random thoughts:

    • It could be argued that the duration of the effect is the full time of the massage plus the time indicated by the roll.
    • It could be argued that you can't maintain your concentration on something like this for longer than the time indicated by the roll, so the massage is irrelevant. In that case we would give you +10 for the massaging as a focus factor (which gives you about 50% chance, just over), double the effectiveness (so that a roll of 15 gives you a 30% reduction in pain) and say that it lasts for as long as the die roll indicates, and if the die roll is less than thirty it indicates that you were distracted and forgot to keep massaging.
    • It could be argued that the massage is overkill--you massage for a minute while concentrating on the relief of pain, and it works for RS minutes (the time indicated by the die roll), your continued massage being unnecessary and unrelated.
    • It could be argued that these are separate but linked skills, that you have a skill in massage (which is probably a bod skill, but I don't recall anyone ever listing it) which reduces pain and you have a skill psionically reducing pain. We would then have to decide whether the psionic skill was dependent on a successful roll of the massage skill (which would give it +10 when the massage skill worked, but guarantee failure when it didn't).

    Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject at the moment, and I'll gladly entertain yours.

    Can I tag more new creature (through the eye of the creature that I have tagged) during mind reading package practice?

    I'm pretty sure this would be a different skill, a P3@9 Remote Mind Reading application. You're not in the body whose eyes you are using, so the eyes you are using do not give you the direction of the target relative to your own mind.

    Lelach says not to worry about all that, Morani is taking care of it. You are only now beginning to crawl effectively (and usually find that you start by going backwards) so the best thing for you to do is get some exercise inside the tree by walking around the outside wall. She still takes time to play with you. She is making meals outside the tree, though, and bringing them inside to eat. She washes you up sometimes with a bit of wet cloth.

    --M. J. Young

    Thu Sep 24 2009 1:02 am #
23. 

    Max
    Member

    Lelach is a blonde woman with violet eyes.
    Morani have brown hair and eyes.
    I wonder what color is my hair and eyes.
    It just occurred to me that I can look at myself through other people's eyes.
    I wonder why I have not tried that before. Maybe because it was easier to ask.

    I can't think of a reason for such a situation to occur, and particularly now that you are inside for the winter, but I can see it happening.

    I mean before or after the winter of course.

    generally in contact with the padding that lines the floor.

    What material is used for the padding?
    Is the padding made from grass and leaves too?
    Does the telepathy chain work (when I practice it) through the grass and leaves?

    I wonder if throwing grass or leaves in mid-air then catching it again would be a good practice for hand/eye coordination.

    I wonder if catching rain or water drops (from a leaking bucket) would be a good intuition practice to substitute the practice for catching nuts or other seeds.
    Can catching seeds that made to fall through artificial means such as using some sort of contraption (that makes the seed falls as random as possible) or just throwing it up in mid-air (by self or other people) good for intuition practice?

    What you learned from your effort to reduce pain does give you insight into how you might use your mind to heal your body.

    Does this mean that I can use my mind to release regenerative hormones to certain area if I am injured?

    About the reduce pain skill, I think during the massage the effectiveness of the skill will be doubled because of focus brought by the massage. After the massage, the effectiveness and duration will be the same as the dice roll. I think that would be the most probable solution and mimic real-life situation. Is this acceptable?

    This would mean that the new reduce pain skill would not last very long.
    I will touch the area of pain and massage it again for about 30 minutes but this time I will pray (during the time I massage it) so that the pain for the area that I touch will be more bearable.
    I think this would be Counter Pain M+2@1 variant that covers one person and be done in 30 minutes because of the massage to the pain area.

    If the above does not work to eliminate all of the pain, I will try to endure it using my willpower. Can this be considered will power practice?

    I'm pretty sure this would be a different skill, a P3@9 Remote Mind Reading application.

    Interesting. I will try this much later. (After the winter seems to be a good time to try this.)

    You're not in the body whose eyes you are using, so the eyes you are using do not give you the direction of the target relative to your own mind.

    Can I calculate the target location through detect mind and various other hints (such as the terrain surrounding the new creature if I remembered the terrain before)?
    Would doing the above be considered as a practice for intellect?

    Can I practice writing with a stick or with my finger (to the inner wall of winter tree)?
    If I can then I will practice this in the same slot as Body Communication package.

    I wonder if the grass can be a substitute for diapers in the winter.
    Grass would be relatively large enough to do that right?
    I wonder if I can recycle the wet cloth so that it will be reusable again.

    The next post would bring us to Month 10 (or December) in the winter right?

    Thu Sep 24 2009 3:37 pm #
24. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    What colors would you like your hair and eyes to be? Give me a list in order of preference. Odds favor brown/brown, but obviously violet/blonde is possible, and I won't discount blue, green, silver, red, pink, black, tan, grey--let's just say that some colors are more likely than others, but your preference connects to the die roll to determine what the outcome will be. (It will be a GE roll. If you prefer brown/brown, then all good and neutral rolls will be brown/brown and bad rolls will be other colors; if you prefer some very unusual color, that will be the best rolls, brown probably falling to the neutral and bad side. Give me a couple colors in order of preference, and I'll have more with which to work.)

    Grass and leaves pad the floor. Contact with the padding is not contact with the tree. Telepathy to the tree does not require contact with it. You have not attempted simultaneous contact with multiple targets who are not in physical contact with each other.

    Throwing grass and leaves in the air and trying to catch them could improve hand/eye.

    There are no falling water drops inside the tree.

    Does this mean that I can use my mind to release regenerative hormones to certain area if I am injured?

    No, it means that you have the idea that you might be able to figure out how to release regenerative hormones to certain areas if you are injured. That is, it does not mean that you already know how to do it, but that you already have some notion of how you might learn to do it.

    You have the body of an infant. The likelihood that you would be able to maintain the action of massaging your gums for half an hour strikes me as very unlikely. I will let you choose between two versions of the skill(s):

    1. Character massages painful area with hand(s) while focusing mind on releasing hormones to relieve pain and reduces amount of pain by RSx2% (over 100% indicates euphoric state caused by release of endorphins); this is maintained for RS minutes, which is the duration of the massage. +10SM on success. (Skill may be chained, that is, rolled again.)
    2. • Character massages painful area for one minute while focusing mind on releasing hormones to relieve pain and reduces amount of pain by RS% for RS minutes, +10SM on success (skill may be chained).
       • Character uses massage on painful area to increase circulation and relieve pain, can maintain massage for RS minutes for RS% reduction in pain, pain reduction then tapers over RS minutes, skill can be chained immediately or at any time after massage ends, +20SM B10@1 Counter Pain skill

    I will have to roll for skill learning success for whatever skills you select.

    I would like to defer consideration of the magic pain control skill until this version is settled.

    I'm pretty sure this would be a different skill, a P3@9 Remote Mind Reading application.

    Interesting. I will try this much later. (After the winter seems to be a good time to try this.)

    You're not in the body whose eyes you are using, so the eyes you are using do not give you the direction of the target relative to your own mind.

    Can I calculate the target location through detect mind and various other hints (such as the terrain surrounding the new creature if I remembered the terrain before)?
    Would doing the above be considered as a practice for intellect?

    You might be able to do this, and if you do it often enough it would be intellect practice (let me restate that: it would be intellect practice, and would be beneficial to your intellect if you do it often enough or as part of a larger program). However, it still involves contacting an unknown mind that you cannot see by direct line of sight, so it's still 3@9 Remote Mind Reading.

    I don't see any reason why you can't "practice writing" on the wall of the tree, but that your finger won't leave a mark and there aren't a lot of sticks around for you to use (I don't know that a stick would leave a mark, either); and your hand/eye is poor enough that even if you could leave a mark it's doubtful whether the scratches would be recognized as letters.

    I'm really only just transitioning from month 8 to month 9; I believe month 9 is December. This would mean you were born in late March, which is barely warm enough to be out of the tree, entered the tree late in November as you were reaching 8 months and it was genuinely cold at night and sometimes in the day, and that it is now early December.

    You are able to sit without support for longer periods, and catch yourself if you start to fall forward--but not if you start to fall sideways, which is what happens to you usually when you start throwing things in the air. You can now pull yourself to a standing position with the aid of the tree wall or other solid objects without Lelach's help. Also, up to now you've been grabbing things by wrapping your hand around them; you've begun to master the technique of picking up objects with one finger and one thumb.

    Morani seals the opening of the tree with a matrix of branches, leaves, grass, and you're not certain what else, a thick pad secured in place. It is cool inside the tree most of the time, but at night you sleep between your parents, where it is reasonably warm in the grass.

    Your parents seem to know when it is day versus night, or else they make it up. In any case, they maintain a day/night schedule. During the day they get some exercise usually by pushing themselves up in the air with their wings and coming back down again. Sometimes one of them will carry you in the air, the way human parents lift their children high and toss them in the air.

    It is also about now that handedness becomes apparent. Are you left handed? Do you think Morach specifically should or should not be, or do you prefer one or the other for him?

    --M. J. Young

    Thu Sep 24 2009 10:41 pm #
25. 

    Max
    Member

    Brown/brown would be the most likely color but any color would be fine to me.
    I just wanted to picture it in my mind.
    Heterochromia (mismatch eye/hair color) would also be possible.

    Let me list the eye color from usual to rare (from my judgment which could be wrong):
    1. Brown
    2. Tan (Light brown)
    3. Violet (Blue x Red)
    4. Blue
    5. Grey (Dark green?)
    6. Green
    7. Red
    8. Pink (Light red)
    9. Silver (Light grey?)
    10. Gold (because of the scriff?)
    11. Heterochromia (choose 2 different color from above)
    12. White (albino anomaly?)
    13. Black (genetic anomaly because it just become darker)

    Hair color:
    1. Brown
    2. Blonde
    3. Heterochromia (both of the above plus light brown)
    4. White (albino anomaly)
    5. Black (genetic anomaly because it just become darker)

    To make things easy, let just say odd number ascending would be neutral to best, and even number ascending would be neutral to worst.
    If you want to be creative then you could use RGB roll to create a random color.

    *****

    Contact with the padding is not contact with the tree.

    Is the padding even contact-able by telepathy when physically touched (when I practice telepathy chain on it)?
    Is the padding line up so that it does not touch each other?
    If so, what supports the padding then?

    *****

    I will replace catching the toy practice with catching the grass and leaves practice. Would it be hard to get a toy that have fell deep into the grass and leaves?

    Does catching nuts or other seeds that are thrown in mid air suitable for intuition practice?

    Can spitting a saliva on a grass (that is situated the same height) and catching the saliva when it fall be an alternative for intuition practice?

    *****

    The likelihood that you would be able to maintain the action of massaging your gums for half an hour strikes me as very unlikely.

    If it is unlikely then I probably would not go for the massage and just let the skill succeed with or without it.
    Does this mean I have learned the P6@1 pain reduction skill (with no change) because I do not make the change to include the massage because I could not maintain the massage as long as I want and decide not to include it?
    I will keep the 3 skill variant in mind to try much later (when I can do things much better with my hands). So that would leave us with the magic pain reduction that covers 1 person.

    Below is what I would do from now on to replace the massage:
    If massage cannot last that long then I probably will go into a position where it is easier to put my hand on the place of pain for 30 minutes such as laying down position. I will touch the pain area and make a gesture that the pain will fly away once every minute. I think an infant could manage to do that. I will call this "Pain fly away gesture".

    I will touch the area of pain in laying down position. I will do the "Pain fly away gesture" then clap (dot) or drum on anything (dash) a Morse code that spells out "BYE" and try to say "Bye" in words if possible (then back to touching the area of pain) once every minute for about 30 minutes. I will pray repeatedly during the interval of the "Pain fly away gesture" so that the pain for the area that I touch will be more bearable. The duration of this skill is until the pain event is over.

    *****

    That is, it does not mean that you already know how to do it, but that you already have some notion of how you might learn to do it.

    Does this mean I get an example bonus if I try to do it?

    *****

    However, it still involves contacting an unknown mind that you cannot see by direct line of sight, so it's still 3@9 Remote Mind Reading.

    I thought that my mind reading can be initiated be line of sight or knowing the target relative position.
    Does this mean every time I cannot see the target it becomes remote mind reading?
    I did try mind reading using this method in the womb, remember?
    Would a blind person that can "see" with altered vision (from sound to vision) and reads the mind of an unknown person (that the blind person hears) be categorized as remote mind reading or normal mind reading?
    If I can see the a monster on a moon (without any assistance or gadget), would mind reading that monster be remote mind reading or normal mind reading?
    Would using telescope to see people far away then using mind read to this target be categorized as remote mind reading or normal mind reading?
    Would using x-ray goggle to see a person behind a wall then using mind read to this target be categorized as remote mind reading or normal mind reading?

    *****

    I do not want to leave any visible mark on the inner wall when I practice writing. I just wanted to train my hands to write so that they could write much sooner. I would train my hands to write basic patterns at first. A grass would be good to be a pen (large enough to be one for a sprite). I will lick the end of the grass and start writing. I will practice detect material (saliva) to read the invisible ink. Even if the saliva dry up I think it would leave some trace on it.

    *****

    you've begun to master the technique of picking up objects with one finger and one thumb.

    Time to manipulate more objects.
    I wonder if I can tie a simple knot using grass or a shredded leave as a substitute for rope.

    a thick pad secured in place

    I wonder what that is so I will ask Lelach.

    lift their children high and toss them in the air.

    I will flap my wings during that time to exercise my wings and see if it slow down my rate of descent.

    I try to be ambidextrous as much as I can but for writing I use my left hand more than my right hand because it can write much faster. So for Morach I will try to balance the use of both hands. If I have to choose which hand to use more then I will choose the right hand but I will try to keep both hand as balance as possible.

    *****

    Time to brew a new skill.
    Would a skill that makes your psi ability unusable after the next skill (because the attention that you give to it or to the next skill drains your psi energy for a certain period of time) bonus the skill or next skill success?
    What is the bonus limit for such skill?
    What is the limit of period of time the psi ability is unusable?
    Can this skill be a chain skill just like meditation?
    Are there any other limitation for such a skill?

    I guess it would be a routine in the winter tree then.
    I wonder what else is interesting during this time.
    I will observe their lifestyles during the winter such as when they went to drink/eat to see how much water/food have been stored in the winter and their way of rationing it, how they dispose their bodily waste, how they conserve energy and other interesting stuffs.
    I also wonder the lifestyle of the animal that I have tagged during the winter so I will check it out during practice.

    Sorry for tons of workload but to understand the game mechanic deeply and to explore the world environment in detail, I have to cover more ground. You could also use time rationing so that you would not spend too much time on one given post (if you do not want to) or you can skip and get back to it in the future. Thank you for your hard work.

    Fri Sep 25 2009 5:59 pm #
26. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    O.K., given that you do not care what color eyes or hair Morach has, I think I need to know what color eyes and hair you, the human being going by the name of Maxx here, have. That will give me a base against which to do an interpretation.

    Thanks for the tables, but I htink you've missed quite a few potential hair colors. Even "Red" is not given, and I can think of several shades that are called "red" which I would not consider so.

    The padding is not living material, and cannot be contacted telepathically. It has no mind.

    I don't know how the padding could be installed so as not to touch anything; it lies on the floor, as far as you know. Of course, you did not see it installed, and if you attempted to dig through it your parents would tell you to stop.

    Would it be hard to get a toy that have fell deep into the grass and leaves?

    I'm not sure I understand this question.

    Does catching nuts or other seeds that are thrown in mid air suitable for intuition practice?

    I don't see how this gives you an unexpected situation.

    Can spitting a saliva on a grass (that is situated the same height) and catching the saliva when it fall be an alternative for intuition practice?

    You have no way to test this, so I should not answer it.

    Yes, if the massage is not part of the skill, the skill is as originally stated.

    ...then clap (dot) or drum on anything (dash) a Morse code that spells out "BYE"

    Without looking it up, can you tell me the Morse code for "BYE"?

    That is, it does not mean that you already know how to do it, but that you already have some notion of how you might learn to do it.

    Does this mean I get an example bonus if I try to do it?

    No, it means that your bias went up to level 6, so your chance of learning any skill is improved, because you've gained an understanding of level six healings.

    However, it still involves contacting an unknown mind that you cannot see by direct line of sight, so it's still 3@9 Remote Mind Reading.

    I thought that my mind reading can be initiated be line of sight or knowing the target relative position.
    Does this mean every time I cannot see the target it becomes remote mind reading?

    We seem to be talking in circles.

    Your "tagging" is an application of your mind reading skill that gives you just enough information to create familiarity with a previously unknown mind. By definition, then, you only use it to contact previously unknown minds, and the question of whether you knew this mind before is irrelevant.

    Once you have tagged a mind, you can contact it by mind reading or telepathy, because tagging gives you the frequency for that individual mind.

    If you do not have the frequency, you must make an initial contact, which requires line of sight from you to the target in order to "tag" the new mind.

    It is entirely possible for you to develop a tagging skill that does not require line of sight. This would be a remote mind reading variant, whether it worked by letting you target someone you saw through the eyes of some other creature or by letting you identify the position of someone you cannot see directly.

    You were able to contact Lelach when you were in utero because of the consistent proximity you had to her.

    You are not a blind person; you and I do not have any basis for answering the question of how a blind person would target a mind. The same applies to your other hypotheticals at this point: they are hypotheses you cannot test, and you do not have the ability to ask questions except in those cases in which you can test the answers. Your answers are derived as conclusions from your own experiments in practice, so if you cannot practice something you cannot know the answer.

    Your parents think your pretend writing on the wall is cute. Lelach says (to Morani) you're going to be a great scholar.

    Your efforts to manipulate the grass are good practice for your hand/eye. You are not always able to accomplish your objective, but as frustrating as that is, you realize that you are gaining more motor control function through the effort.

    What skill do you have in knots? That being a technological skill, you will be able to retain it as a sprite, once your body is able to manipulate objects sufficiently.

    Lelach says that the pad is the door that protects you from the cold during the winter.

    Your wings flap, but they don't have much impact on your movement through the air. Sometimes it causes your body to turn some, as if you were squirming, but Morani manages to catch you anyway.

    You find that you favor your left hand, and can use it more easily than your right.

    I have never given anyone a bonus for exhaustion from psionic concentration, but that does not mean it can't be given. Normally I divide skills into high-concentration and low-concentration, pretty much on the fly; high-concentration skills are such that once they are activated there is a -10 penalty on the simultaneous use of any other psionic skill (and if the high-concentration skill is activated while another skill is in use, it suffers a -10 penalty for activation). A good example of a high concentration skill would be a force weapon, that is, creating a force object and manipulating it as a weapon, because you have to be concentrated both on the maintenance of the force and the rapid movement in combat.

    That being the case, my inclination for something that is exhausting is that it would create a limit on subsequent skill use by imposing a sit-mod against such. Note that this would include all psionic skills, including speech, heightened awareness, and others which are usually taken for granted.

    If a skill with such a limitation were chained, it would incur the same penalty on the second use that any other skill would, and with each additional chaining the penalty would increase a like amount.

    I have no fixed limit in mind for such a skill, but the bonus and the penalty ought to be equal.

    The deer you tagged is foraging for food against significant shortages. It is usually hungry.

    You learn all the significant details about living inside the tree. Less food is consumed by your parents, but this is in part because they do less work.

    You've noticed before that you and your parents glow. This enables you to see things within what is really only a couple inches but seems like about a foot from yourself, and similarly around them. The rest of the interior is too dark to see.

    I don't really mind long posts, as long as I can make the time without taking it from the other players. You are welcome.

    --M. J. Young

    Sat Sep 26 2009 12:28 am #
27. 

    Max
    Member

    If you really wanted to know, mine is black/black.
    Is black/black even possible for a child of brown/brown and blonde/violet?
    I choose it as the best result for hair/eye table that I provide though.

    The table for hair I just made in a hurry. I am not sure where to put red but I think it should be more rare than light brown.

    The padding is not living material, and cannot be contacted telepathically. It has no mind.

    I thought so too but just wanted to make sure. I wonder where the mind of a plant is. Would a plant seed that have not been cooked (thus can be planted) be categorized as living material?
    Would a part of plant that can be put to grow again at separate place be considered a different or the same plant?
    Do I still have contact with the part of plant that are regrown at different place?

    This question:

    Would it be hard to get a toy that have fell deep into the grass and leaves?

    have been answered by this:

    if you attempted to dig through it your parents would tell you to stop.

    So you have already answered it.

    Can spitting a saliva on a grass (that is situated the same height) and catching the saliva when it fall be an alternative for intuition practice?

    You have no way to test this, so I should not answer it.

    The grass will be put to an opening in the wall of winter tree which is the same height when I stand (so it will stick there). There must be some crack, hole or opening of that sort and if it is too big that it would not hold the grass I will put more than one grass so that the grass will stay in one place.
    I will then spit on it the grass so that it will slowly drip to the end of the grass.
    I will then sit down and will try to catch my own saliva when it drips.
    Would the above setup qualify for a way to test it?

    Without looking it up, can you tell me the Morse code for "BYE"?

    I cannot remember what each code stands for (without looking at the chart) but for E it is a dot (because it is the most used vowel). I just hope that my enhance memory recollection remembers the rest. When I check the chart, B is dash, dot, dot, dot and Y is dash, dot, dash, dash.
    If I cannot remember what the code are then I will make a code of my own by making a binary table or a chart (that represents dot and dash) and assigning number, alphabet, and symbol to them just like ASCII character encoding scheme.

    I will remember to do the things below much later to test my hypothesis.
    1. Sound to sight sense alteration then mind reading when I close my eyes.
    2. Telescopic view mind reading.
    3. X-ray or infrared vision mind reading.
    4. Target a really large tree from far away for mind reading.
    This will give me more knowledge on the limitation of initial contact mind reading.
    I will try remote mind reading after the winter.

    I will thank Lelach for the compliment. Pretend to pretend writing when actually writing something is really something else. I like to say the previous sentence quickly for some reason. I will try to write 2 easily distinguishable symbol (for dot and dash) so that it can remind me of the code I made up earlier if I cannot remember the Morse code even with enhance memory recollection (that I have done in practice) and if I remember (the Morse code) then I will write it in alphabetical order for future reference.

    The knot that I use a lot is the Square knot and its variant that is used for tying shoelaces and such. For other type of knot I either saw it only in book/Internet or attempt it for a few times so I cannot be said to be that good in them. I will try the Square knot because it is simple and can be done by kids to tie their own shoe.
    If I manage that I will try more complicated knot such as a knot to bind two ropes securely if I can remember how to do it.
    If I succeed on that, I will try making longer ropes with it.
    If I succeed on making longer ropes, I will try to make a net using it.

    I wonder what the pad or door is made from.

    I will learn to control the turn of my body when I flap my wings so that it can go to the direction that I desire.

    You find that you favor your left hand, and can use it more easily than your right.

    Well, that is expected because my mind probably gives the example for my body to do things that way. I will practice with my right hand more so that both hands will be more balanced later on.

    I will go around the inner wall of the tree to inspect any interesting things that I may have missed because of darkness. I wonder if I can make something to focus the light of my body towards one direction. If I can control my own body with the power of mind I probably can focus my body light towards one direction using it.

    I will lay down and try to gather my mental power for about 2 to 3 hours then I will get up and try to focus my body light in one direction which is the direction pointed by my right hand. The duration of the skill will be from 1 to 10 minutes. After the skill is done I will need to rest for about 4 to 5 hours to restore my mental energy due to exhaustion trying to make sure the skill success.
    I use my right hand because the left hand supports the body while standing.

    Sat Sep 26 2009 6:44 pm #
28. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    You have violet eyes and silver hair--not grey, but shiny similar to a platinum blonde.

    Yes, your set-up with the grass would be a way to test your idea for practicing intuition by catching saliva drops.

    As a passing note, your character can nearly always remember things you manage to remember, particularly if it's still close to your original verse-out; if you want him to remember something you can't remember immediately, usually an education level check is adequate to determine whether he learned/remembers something you think you once learned. Your enhanced memory skill is then a "second shot" at remembering such things.

    You manage to remember enough Morse code to put together your BYE. (Make note of those letters; you need not check them again, now that you have incorporated them into a practiced skill.)

    You prove unable to tie any knots at present; the task is beyond what you can do with a couple of fingers, no matter how determined you are.

    Concerning this effort to manipulate light, are you attempting to

    • manipulate your body's production of light by psionically altering your body's natural chemistry or whatever it is that produces this light, such that the light is concentrated in a different area?
    • manipulate the light itself after it emanates from your body such that it shines in the direction you desire?
    • manipulate your body's production of light as a learned body skill, as you might manipulate the sound your voice makes or with great practice your heart rate or body temperature?
    • do something else?

    Finally, I've pulled this from a previous post:
    

    ...go into a position where it is easier to put my hand on the place of pain for 30 minutes such as laying down position. I will touch the pain area and make a gesture that the pain will fly away once every minute. I think an infant could manage to do that. I will call this "Pain fly away gesture".

    I will touch the area of pain in laying down position. I will do the "Pain fly away gesture" then clap (dot) or drum on anything (dash) a Morse code that spells out "BYE" and try to say "Bye" in words if possible (then back to touching the area of pain) once every minute for about 30 minutes. I will pray repeatedly during the interval of the "Pain fly away gesture" so that the pain for the area that I touch will be more bearable. The duration of this skill is until the pain event is over.

    This was a magical pain reduction skill you were going to create
    

    If massage cannot last that long

    which meant if you could not maintain a thirty minute effort to massage your gums with your hands in connection with efforts to stop the pain of teething. This was going on concurrently with the development of this skill,
    

    1@1 Reduce Pain P6@1 by self-hypnosis to induce happy thoughts creating a hormone that intercepts the pain signals RS minutes

    I'm not certain whether you are still intending to attempt the more elaborate magical approach.

    --M. J. Young

    Mon Sep 28 2009 12:25 am #
29. 

    Max
    Member

    You have violet eyes and silver hair--not grey, but shiny similar to a platinum blonde.

    Well, similar to Lelach then. I remember a saying (which the validity are probably not verified yet) that goes something like "A son mostly takes the look of the mother and vice versa". I wonder if my situation is an example of that.

    Yes, your set-up with the grass would be a way to test your idea for practicing intuition by catching saliva drops.

    Does the setup work?
    Can it provide enough challenge to improve my intuition through regular practice?
    If it can then I will practice it in my ESP package slot.

    I will use the Morse code that I remember to attempt the magical pain reduction approach which is:

    I will touch the area of pain in laying down position. I will do the "Pain fly away gesture" then clap (dot) or drum on anything (dash) a Morse code that spells out "BYE" and try to say "Bye" in words if possible (then back to touching the area of pain) once every minute for about 30 minutes. I will pray repeatedly during the interval of the "Pain fly away gesture" so that the pain for the area that I touch will be more bearable. The duration of this skill is until the pain event is over.

    You prove unable to tie any knots at present; the task is beyond what you can do with a couple of fingers, no matter how determined you are.

    This reminds me of trying to manipulate objects such as to tie a knot by either magically or psionically but lets wait for the result for light manipulation first.

    If manipulating my body light production by psionically altering my body natural chemistry or whatever it is that produces this light, such that the light is concentrated in a different area can be an example to learn to do it as a body skill (by following what the mind did earlier) then I will try to alter whatever that produced this light.
    If it cannot be an example to learn a body skill then I will manipulate the light itself after it emanates from my body such that it shines in the direction I desire.
    When I make up this skill, I thought of doing the former if it can be an example to learn how to control my body better but in the event that it does not gives any example to learn the body skill then I thought that manipulating light itself would be more useful. Thank you for elaborating the variant that I have in mind.
    In the event that I do not know if the former (manipulating my body light production by psionically altering my body natural chemistry or whatever it is that produces this light) can give an example for the body to learn it or not (using my understanding in body control or healing) then I will try the latter (manipulate the light itself after it emanates from my body such that it shines in the direction I desire) first.
    I will quote the skill again below so you do not have to search for it.

    I will lay down and try to gather my mental power for about 2 to 3 hours then I will get up and try to focus my body light in one direction which is the direction pointed by my right hand. The duration of the skill will be from 1 to 10 minutes. After the skill is done I will need to rest for about 4 to 5 hours to restore my mental energy due to exhaustion trying to make sure the skill success.
    I use my right hand because the left hand supports the body while standing.

    If it works I will go around the winter tree to see anything that I may have miss due to darkness and after the duration is over I will rest with restful sleep (that have about 8 hours duration).

    I will also have to research more about plant parts, seeds, living things vs non-living things, mind identity, molecular living things, pseudo living things, the aspect of mind reading/telepathy with said things and much more.
    Are vine that is freshly picked up a living thing?
    Does the vine still have a mind during that state?
    When is a vine categorized as non-living things?
    Is seed a living thing?
    I wonder if I have any info of the above from my various sense and skills.

    What are creatures that I have tagged (such as butterfly, bird, deer and others) doing?
    Can the creature differentiate night or day in the winter?
    I wonder if a month have pass by or anything have change during this time period.

    Mon Sep 28 2009 5:43 pm #
30. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    The setup with the grass and the saliva is not sufficiently challenging to improve your remarkable intuition further.

    I will touch the area of pain in laying down position. I will do the "Pain fly away gesture" then clap (dot) or drum on anything (dash) a Morse code that spells out "BYE" and try to say "Bye" in words if possible (then back to touching the area of pain) once every minute for about 30 minutes. I will pray repeatedly during the interval of the "Pain fly away gesture" so that the pain for the area that I touch will be more bearable. The duration of this skill is until the pain event is over.

    Is lying down a specific requirement/limitation on the skill, or is it simply the default position, since you have trouble remaining upright for an extended length of time?

    By "until the pain event is over" do you mean until the current pain attack subsides, or until the tooth has finished cutting, is fully grown, and no longer hurts?

    When you use psionics to control body functions, there is something of a feeling that this is being done from "outside" the body. Thus the psionic control of the release or balancing of chemicals or any similar body function does not show you how to accomplish the same objective directly by body skills. (I know it's a fine distinction, but it's an important one.)

    I take it that you then intend to manipulate the light directly, and not manipulate the illumination that comes from your body.

    Seeds are alive but usually sleeping. Plants that have been severed from the soil are slowly dying, but would perceive themselves as ill and hungry; such mind as they have would grow fainter and more difficult to find until they were completely dead. Leaves are dead when the tree releases them, usually before they are released unless there is a very strong wind or other force that disconnects them early, in which case they die upon disconnection.

    Most of the creatures you have tagged are dead or dormant. The birds are unaware of winter. The deer continues to struggle to find food in the cold and the snow.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Sep 29 2009 3:08 am #
31. 

    Max
    Member

    The setup with the grass and the saliva is not sufficiently challenging to improve your remarkable intuition further.

    Does this mean that I know when and where the saliva will drip even I close my eyes?

    Lying down is the default position of the skill because I have trouble remaining upright for an extended length of time in the body of an infant. The targeted person or the person who prays must be in the position that is categorized as a relax position so that the pain soothing process can go smoothly. If the situation limits the movement of the person so that the person can only sit, then the prayer can be done when sitting as long as the person does not strain self when trying to sit.

    By "until the pain event is over" do you mean until the current pain attack subsides, or until the tooth has finished cutting, is fully grown, and no longer hurts?

    That would mean until the current pain attack subsides.

    In the event that my prayer loses its effect and I could not renew it then I will try to fight the pain with my willpower.
    Would this be a self control skill that uses willpower check to prolong it?
    Can this skill be use to practice willpower?

    I take it that you then intend to manipulate the light directly, and not manipulate the illumination that comes from your body.

    It can be said that I intend to manipulate light directly.
    I think it is a kind of psionic lensing.
    I also have thought of other variation such as gravitational lensing or binding a charged particle to the light (or changing light into charged particle) then bending it with magnetism but I wonder if that is even possible in this world.

    I will lay down and try to gather my mental power for about 2 to 3 hours then I will get up and try to focus my body light in one direction which is the direction pointed by my right hand. The duration of the skill will be from 1 to 10 minutes. After the skill is done I will need to rest for about 4 to 5 hours to restore my mental energy due to exhaustion trying to make sure the skill success.
    I use my right hand because the left hand supports the body while standing.

    Are we good to go with the skill above that manipulates light directly or do you have other questions about it?

    In the event that the above skill does not work, I will try the variant that manipulates my body light production by psionically altering my body natural chemistry or whatever it is that produces this light after resting.

    I wonder if I can (create a skill that) observe my own mental process during the skill that control bodily functions, trace it to related body parts and check for a possible way the body part can be manipulated the same way as the psionic skill.
    Is it possible to create a skill that teaches your body to do the same function as the psionic counterpart by doing the above?

    Very interesting info on the plant.
    I wonder if sleeping plants such as seeds can be used as a conductive material for telepathy chain connect considering it is a living creature.

    So it is snowing now. I wonder if I can do anything to help the deer to survive the winter. I wonder if I can pray for the deer safety.
    If I can then I will pray (in my mind) for the deer safety so that the deer can found the food that it needs and place of shelter from the cold weather. I will pray for the deer in laying down position for an hour.

    The birds is probably migratory birds that goes to warmer place during the winter.
    I wonder if they have arrived at their destination or still on the way to get there.
    I also wonder if they see anything interesting along the way such as houses, human or other creatures.

    Tue Sep 29 2009 4:31 pm #
32. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Does this mean that I know when and where the saliva will drip even I close my eyes?

    No, it means that practicing this way is not helping your intuition.

    Your pain prayer is effective, eliminating teething pain for about eight hours.

    After resting for two hours, you are able to focus your light in a beam from your hand, gathering the light from around your body and sending it outward where you point. On this first attempt the beam lasts eight minutes, after which you collapse and rest. Lelach and Morani are worried about you, because you are too weak to sit and eat during that time.

    You pray for the deer; you feel it may have helped, for a while.

    --M. J. Young

    Fri Oct 2 2009 2:52 am #
33. 

    Max
    Member

    I wonder if I can remember the rest of the Morse code.
    If I could not remember any letter, number or symbol (that the Morse code represents) then I will include this as one of the things to try remember in my enhance memory recollection practice.

    I will convey my gratitude for my successful prayers with a silent prayer of thankfulness.
    I wonder if the above is an example for practicing religion.
    I will practice the eliminate pain prayer in Slot 10 with my psionic reduce pain in case that my psionic reduce pain does not work.

    Did I have found anything interesting that I have not seen before (due to darkness) during the time 8 minutes that I focused my body light?
    During the time of resting, can I sleep (or pretend to sleep if I cannot sleep) so that my parents would not be worried about me?
    Would the skill bonus be the same if I say that I only rested an hour before the light redirection and two hours after it?

    You pray for the deer; you feel it may have helped, for a while.

    I wonder how long my prayer would be effective.
    I wonder if I can prolong or replenish the effect of the prayer by praying 30 minutes daily of the same prayer.
    If I can then I will do it.

    Do I have enough time to practice with tying the knots to improve my object manipulation skills?
    If I have enough time, I will practice it in the new slot.
    If not, I will practice it in my exercise package.

    Did I ate seed mush during the winter too?
    If not, what food did I ate?

    I wonder if I can mark the leaves with different markings by tearing the edge a little bit to represent the alphabet using Morse code (long and short tear). I will then put the leaves together and throw it in mid air and by only glancing it once in mid air (for hint) then closing my eyes I will try to determine where each letter will go to. I will crawl to this location and try to feel the mark at the edge to see if I am right. If I have pick the wrong leaf, I will probably stumble into more clue thus getting me closer to the letter of my intention.
    Is the above a suitable practice to increase my intuition?

    Is there any changes in the new month?
    Do I get any new info from my various skills?

    Fri Oct 2 2009 7:30 pm #
34. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    I wonder how to respond when you open a statement with "I wonder". I assume that it means that if this is something you actually know or would know in the circumstances, that I should tell you what you know, but otherwise that all you are doing is recognizing it as something you do not know.

    Yes, a prayer of thanksgiving would be practicing your religion. It's a small thing in itself, but fits in a larger package.

    The hollow of the tree looks much as you might expect, only bigger.

    Yes, you manage to take a nap.

    Since you are cutting teeth, Lelach gives you something like a carrot sometimes, which mostly massages your gums and helps your teeth cut, but you are also swallowing bits of it. You also eat foods similar to those you ate before, which included vegetable mush as well as seed mush.

    You add knot tying to your practice efforts.

    Your prayer to help the deer was a 60 minute prayer; if you would like to create a thirty minute version that lasts for a single day, that would be a separate skill.

    You want to mark several leaves so that they can be distinguished by the markings, throw them in the air all at once, and then try to know which one lands where. This would be akin to tossing several cards in the air and trying to find where the Ace of Spades lands by watching them in the air. Is that correct?

    I can see that this might be good training for intuition. I'm a bit unclear as to exactly how you intend to mark these dry brown leaves, and how you intend to stack and throw them without damaging them, but it could be done in theory, anyway. You did not specify how many leaves; I'm assuming it's not twenty-six, but the actual number might be significant. Two would not do much to help you, but twenty is probably too many to distinguish.

    --M. J. Young

    Sun Oct 4 2009 11:59 pm #
35. 

    Max
    Member

    I wonder how to respond when you open a statement with "I wonder". I assume that it means that if this is something you actually know or would know in the circumstances, that I should tell you what you know, but otherwise that all you are doing is recognizing it as something you do not know.

    It can be assumed that way. This is because I did not know what the character know fully so that is why I wonder.

    So did my character remember the rest of the Morse code or just BYE?
    It would be easier if I said "I wonder" though because I can say it in character.

    Would the skill bonus be the same if I say that I only rested an hour before the light redirection and two hours of rest after it?
    Does resting longer produces the same or different effect on the skill bonus?
    Can the skill be practiced without the rest included?

    Your prayer to help the deer was a 60 minute prayer; if you would like to create a thirty minute version that lasts for a single day, that would be a separate skill.

    Lets try that. During meal, when I am feed something, pray that the deer can feel satiated by the food that the deer find as I eat mine. The effect of this is probably a little bit of the food that I consume will be sacrificed to help the deer to find the food that the deer need. I will also pray repeatedly during the meal. After the meal, I will take a leave, wipe my mouth, tear the leave apart and spread the leave mid air as a gesture so the food are plenty all around the deer to find. Then I will clap my hand two times (like how some Japanese show they thankful to the food) and have a silent prayer of thankfulness. The time I take to pray is as long as meal time plus after meal time which would be around 30 minutes.

    This would be akin to tossing several cards in the air and trying to find where the Ace of Spades lands by watching them in the air. Is that correct?

    Yes, that would be correct.

    The marking would represent any Morse code that I remember and if I do not remember them I will simply just put the code in but will try to remember what the code represent later or I could make it up.
    The number of leaves would be 26 for alphabet, 10 for numbers, and 12 for symbols and others. Which would bring us to 48. A little more and we have a full deck.

    The leave could be marked by tearing the edge (1/8 for dot and 1/4 for dash) or by folding the leave in two then tearing the center according to which suit the situation better.
    The stacking method option:
    1. Leave teared edge facing away from me (I hold it at the edge facing me)
    2. Leave teared edge facing away from me, then to me and the order is repeated (I hold the end of the leaves)
    3. Leave just stacked randomly as long as it is possible to hold together (only for center teared leave)

    I would like to try the center teared leave with stacking option 3 first.
    If that does not work then I will try teared edge with stacking option 1, failing that then I will go for option 2.
    I think I would like to try 5 to 10 leaves first and try to see how many leaves are efficient to throw and to distinguish.
    If I can keep up with what I throw then I will throw more leaves.
    I can also throw the leaves in batch of 5 to 10 until all of the leaves are thrown then search for them after finish with the throwing.
    If nothing of the above works then I will try to reevaluate why it does not work.

    I do have something in mind to "help" the leave throwing if you know what I mean.

    Is there any changes in the new month?
    Do I get any new info from my various skills?

    Mon Oct 5 2009 7:06 pm #
36. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    So did my character remember the rest of the Morse code or just BYE?

    You manage to recall it by working with it for a few days, picking up a couple letters here and there from your memory, remembering specific mnemonics and recognizing when individual letters must be wrong because that's the code for something else. You compile the entire alphabet, gradually.

    [blockquote]Would the skill bonus be the same if I say that I only rested an hour before the light redirection and two hours of rest after it?
    Does resting longer produces the same or different effect on the skill bonus?[/blockquote]
    I specifically ignored this question last time because quite frankly I don't remember what my reasoning was on the amount of bonus I gave. I can say that you defined a skill which included as essential elements prior and subsequent rest, so unless in the reasoning I specifically said that there was a bonus for X amount of rest and you exceeded that but got no additional bonus, then creating a skill which required a different amount of rest would be a different skill. The amount of rest required by a skill should be a factor, and it would be wrong to say that there is a ceiling on the benefit (if you designed a skill which left you comatose for a week, that would have more benefit than one which left you weak with penalties on actions for fifteen minutes), but that's all very tightly defined for magic skills and very loosely applied for psionics, which generally assume that you think it and it happens and that's the whole ball of wax. Adding costs to a skill increases the power of the skill, within the reasonable limitation that there must be some connection between the cost and the skill. (Pinching yourself before shooting a gun does not improve your aim, because in technology there's no connection between your ability to fire the gun and the pain you feel. Pinching yourself before using a magic wand could give a bonus because it was part of the ritual and resulted in a detriment to you. Pinching yourself before using a psionic device would probably result in a penalty, since the pinch is more likely to distract than to enhance your concentration.)

    So I don't know whether a different amount of rest would result in a different chance of success in this specific instance, and I won't until I calculate it, which I won't do unless you choose to attempt to create a different skill. As to your character, he probably won't know whether his "chance of success" changes--all he can know is whether it works or not when he uses it.

    Can the skill be practiced without the rest included?

    That's very unusual for psionic skills. I suppose you can trace in your mind how you would control the light without actually doing so, in something of the same way that a musician can review in his mind the notes of a piece he intends to sing or play without actually doing so; but the benefit is severely attenuated. It might work as part of a practice in which you rested, traced the pattern several times in your mind, performed the skill, traced the pattern a few more times, and then rested again (thus enabling you to increase the practice time for the skill without having to rest as often), but if you're not actually attempting the skill at some point, I don't think you can say it was practice.

    I'll note that this is distinct from Scott's approach to practicing magic skills, by which he breaks down the ritual into constituent parts and practices the parts individually so as not to complete the spell.

    During meal, when I am feed something, pray that the deer can feel satiated by the food that the deer find as I eat mine. The effect of this is probably a little bit of the food that I consume will be sacrificed to help the deer to find the food that the deer need. I will also pray repeatedly during the meal. After the meal, I will take a leave, wipe my mouth, tear the leave apart and spread the leave mid air as a gesture so the food are plenty all around the deer to find. Then I will clap my hand two times (like how some Japanese show they thankful to the food) and have a silent prayer of thankfulness. The time I take to pray is as long as meal time plus after meal time which would be around 30 minutes.

    You are making eating the meal a component of the prayer, and you are sacrificing some of your own nutrition by having part of the food "destroyed" in a way that does not benefit you. You also require a leaf which you will use as a napkin and then shred and scatter. You are praying for the deer in this, but not actually speaking any words aloud. Are those details correct?

    On stacking leaves, it occurs to me that a pinochle deck (which contains forty-eight cards) is probably greater than three quarters of an inch thick (though not, I think, a full inch). Let's call it 3/4 inches. For a standard adult sprite, that would be 3/4x6=18/4=4 1/2 inches thick in equivalent size. That's larger than the span of a baby's hand--and dry leaves are thicker than playing cards and do not lie as flat.

    You are going to have to rethink this aspect, I think.

    --M. J. Young

    Thu Oct 8 2009 1:54 am #
37. 

    Max
    Member

    Considering the prior resting time is 6 times RS/5 (which at max is 20 minutes), and subsequent resting time is 12 times RS/5, can I shorten the duration of skill for one second (or less) blink and make a 6 second rest before the skill and 6 second rest after then repeating the cycle where the the interval between it will become 12 seconds rest?
    Can the above qualify for a practice for light redirection skill or is it a different skill altogether?

    Would trying to imprint psionic pattern to self be considered a practice for the skill?
    Can someone practice psionic in a simulation such as a dream?

    You are making eating the meal a component of the prayer, and you are sacrificing some of your own nutrition by having part of the food "destroyed" in a way that does not benefit you. You also require a leaf which you will use as a napkin and then shred and scatter.

    The details above are correct.
    Considering I already remember all of the alphabet for Morse code, I might as well replace "clapping my hand two times" in my new prayer with "TQ FOR FOOD" by clapping (dot) and drumming (dash), and the space represented with a longer pause. I would also say "koo" (for Thank You) if possible.

    You are going to have to rethink this aspect, I think.

    I have thought of that. That is why I say that I will throw the leaves in batches of 5 to 10 but if that would not work because the leave thrown are too little then I will ask for Lelach help. If Lelach would not help then I will try to use my knot tying skill to tie the deck up first then launch them into air then releasing the knot at that time. Failing that I will come up with a new skill.

    I wonder if I can detect dynamic or movement pattern using my skills such as heighten awareness, detect material, alter sense, focus sense or others.

    Speaking of enhancing concentration, I wonder if closing your eyes and focusing on the mental image of what you want the skill to actually do for X minutes will effect the success of the skill. For this lets create new skills that have different concentration times.
    Lets try 1 minute of concentration time (with eyes close then opening eyes after that) then try to tell what Morani is thinking by looking at his behavior. Sort of analyze behavior skill that is close to empathy.
    Try 2 minutes of concentration time and then use the analyze behavior skill (to Morani) a day after succeeding the above.
    Try 4 minutes of concentration time and then use the analyze behavior skill (to Morani) a day after succeeding the above.
    If I succeed with the above skills then I will practice them and calculate the success rate of each skill. These practice will be temporary until I have finish collecting data of each skill.
    I will probably try the resting time experiment next but that will have to wait.

    Is there any changes in the new month or is it still the same month?

    Thu Oct 8 2009 6:36 pm #
38. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Ah, the advancement to the next month.

    Generally I try to finish covering everything you are doing in one month before I jump to the next, unless I'm pushed to tracking by the advance of individual days.  You pack so much into a month that I don't get through it all, and so the next month waits--if for no other reason, because I've got so much to answer in everything else you're doing that I can shorten the time spent on your posts by not adding to it the developmental information for the next month.

    So, no new month until I've managed to get you to a point where there's nothing new I have to figure out about this one.

    A shorter version of a skill is a different skill, with only very rare exceptions. Apart from that, twelve seconds does not constitute a period of rest. It is inherent in instant use psionic skills that the amateur user cannot do them faster than once per minute, so you would have to make the use observably slower than that for any "rest" benefit to accrue.

    I'm not certain I understand what you mean by trying to print a psionic pattern to yourself as practice of the skill. Part of my confusion is that printing a psionic pattern might be describing a skill (the ability to give someone else a mental image of how a mental skill is performed, such that they can copy it), but you do not have such a skill; practicing printing patterns would be the way to practice that skill, so you might be asking whether printing patterns to yourself is a way to practice printing patterns (probably). On the other hand, you might not mean psionically printing a pattern (in which case I don't know what you do mean), and that your interest is in whether this constitutes practice of the imprinted skill, for which I'm inclined to say no but since I don't know for certain what you mean by the first part I don't want to be hasty.

    In analyzing your prayer for the deer, I have two questions about the specifics.

    1. You specify in the description that this is "the deer"; my natural inclination is that this is a generalized prayer that could be prayed for any other specifically identified creature--you could later use it to pray that your father finds food on his hunting trip, for example--but if you intend it to be very narrowly for this specific animal alone, that would make a difference.
    2. You specify the use of a leaf as a napkin. It suddenly occurred to me that you are using the leaf because it is available, and that this does not necessarily mean that you don't want the skill to work if you don't happen to have a leaf but you do have a napkin. Does the skill demand a leaf, or should that be stated such that it covers any object which can be used as a napkin, from leaves to face cloths to curtains?

    Lelach will not throw the leaves into the air the hundreds of times every day that it would take for you to benefit from this intuition training program, and your manipuate object skills are not sufficient for knot tying adequate to that kind of repetition. Something like this might work when you are older, but not now.

    Concerning the skill you call "analyze behavior", I need to analyze what it is you are doing.

    Most of what you say about it sounds like it is a P1@0 Understanding skill, because it does not at all involve mental contact with the target but is based entirely on external observation; in that case, though, I am not certain where the psionic energy is operating (the skill does not involve the use of any extraordinary power, but observation and understanding of complex body language or social patterns). Thus I cannot be certain how or whether time concentrating on "what you want the skill to do" will affect how well it does this. I suppose I don't really fully grasp what you want the skill to do, or if I do, I don't think it's a good candidate for the technique you've chosen to use to enhance it. For example, using a scope will increase your chance of success with a rifle, but not with a bicycle.

    --M. J. Young

    Fri Oct 9 2009 12:23 am #
39. 

    Max
    Member

    Well, you feel the time moves slowly in winter. (^_^)

    How about 6 minutes of prior rest, 1 minute (or less) with the light redirection, 6 minutes subsequent rest then repeat the cycle?
    How long is needed for it to be considered a rest?

    whether this constitutes practice of the imprinted skill, for which I'm inclined to say no

    Imprinting skill X to self so that you can practice with skill X is what I mean.
    If the answer is no, then does this mean skill X would not increase if I try to teach it to another person?
    What if I try to study skill X by imprinting it to self then finding out the weakness of the pattern then try to attenuate the pattern for skill X so it will become better?
    Can running the simulation for the psionic skill in mind but not actually doing it be considered as practice for the skill?

    You specify in the description that this is "the deer"; my natural inclination is that this is a generalized prayer that could be prayed for any other specifically identified creature--you could later use it to pray that your father finds food on his hunting trip, for example--but if you intend it to be very narrowly for this specific animal alone, that would make a difference.

    This would be a generalized prayer that could be prayed for any other specifically identified creature.

    You specify the use of a leaf as a napkin. It suddenly occurred to me that you are using the leaf because it is available, and that this does not necessarily mean that you don't want the skill to work if you don't happen to have a leaf but you do have a napkin. Does the skill demand a leaf, or should that be stated such that it covers any object which can be used as a napkin, from leaves to face cloths to curtains?

    As long as the napkin is tear-able such as paper napkin (or if it could be cut with other tools provided that I have the tools to cut it and I can cut it), then the skill would work.

    Lelach will not throw the leaves into the air the hundreds of times every day that it would take for you to benefit from this intuition training program, and your manipulate object skills are not sufficient for knot tying adequate to that kind of repetition. Something like this might work when you are older, but not now.

    Does this mean that I have to throw all of the 48 leaves in mid-air to train my intuition?
    I thought that even 26 is a bit too much for my level right now.
    Does throwing the leave in batches does not work at all?
    Can I put the deck of leaves onto a platform like object such as bigger leaf or cloth then throw it in mid air?
    I did think of a sticky spell but that would have to wait.

    Most of what you say about it sounds like it is a P1@0 Understanding skill, because it does not at all involve mental contact with the target but is based entirely on external observation

    So lets change the variable to how much time the subject is observed before coming to conclusion.
    The first variant will be 1 minute of observation.
    The second variant will be 2 minutes of observation.
    The third variant will be 4 minutes of observation.
    The target of observation is Morani.
    If all the above succeed then I will practice it temporarily until I have gather the success rate for each skill.

    Speaking of the right candidate for concentrating on "what I want the skill to do", does read visual information suit this criteria?
    If it does then I will create a second experiment where:
    The first variant will be 1 minute of concentration (on visualizing the mind pattern and visual pathway of the target with my eyes closed) then initiating the read visual information skill.
    The second variant will be 2 minutes of concentration then initiating the read visual information skill.
    The third variant will be 4 minutes of concentration then initiating the read visual information skill.
    The target of this skill is Morani.
    If all the above succeed then I will practice it temporarily until I have gather the success rate for each skill.

    Well, what an eventful month.
    I wonder when does the sprite consider it to be a new year.
    It would probably be after the winter.
    So I guess the next post would still be the same month then.

    Fri Oct 9 2009 1:51 pm #
40. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    The concept of rest enhancing a skill is to some degree looking at it backwards. The skill is enhanced based on the assumption that performance is exhausting and thus rest is compulsory--if you design a skill that says "must rest X time after use", it means that when you complete the skill you are too tired to do anything else, any effort to do anything else will be heavily penalized, any so you collapse without a significant force of will and/or stamina to keep you going.

    Saying you must rest is comparable to saying you must meditate, as a way of preparing yourself in advance for the use of the skill. In a magic skill with such a limitation, the skill simply would not work absent the rest, which would be deemed a necessary part of the ritual. With a psionic skill, rest in advance is more difficult to quantify. There is no inherent reason why you could not attempt the skill without advance rest, and the only mechanical recourse would be a penalty against performance of the skill.

    In any case, with the light redirection skill the primary question is how long you can maintain the skill. The second question is whether doing so is exhausting, which would mean you are concentrating on it so strongly that it tires you physically and mentally; the necessity of rest then becomes a question of how exhausting it is. Then the question of advance rest might best be quantified in terms of whether resting before the skill use would reduce the need to rest after it, because you go into the skill rested. It seems to me that rest before is less of a detriment than rest after, so rest after is worth more.

    Changing the duration of the skill itself makes it a different skill. The way it is currently designed, the die roll gives you RS/5 minutes, which probably maxes out around eight or nine minutes for your current level of ability--but sometimes it's only one minute, if the roll is 5 or less.

    You can remove the relative time factor and state that the skill works for a specific length of time; that would include a penalty for taking control of an aspect normally not within your control (you can terminate the effect early, but you can't guarantee the duration), but if the duration were short enough the bonus might offset it. In any case, if you're changing the duration, you're creating a new skill.

    I allow teaching a skill to someone else to be a new use once. Repeatedly teaching it to others is only one new use. It's not practice in itself, although you could create a class where you were working to improve someone else's skill ability level and so working with the skill enough yourself to count as practice. And yes, I would allow in most cases that you can practice a psionic skill by going through the motions in your mind without actually completing the skill.

    You pray for the deer while eating; it seems to help.

    Is it your intention to do this every day, or to practice it every day?

    My meaning is that your plan to train your intuition by throwing marked leaves in the air is not going to work at the present time, because you would have to do this too frequently; your own ability to manipulate objects is not sufficient for you to stack and throw them quickly enough to do it enough times in the day to benefit you, and although Lelach does play with you every day, she does not have the time to throw them as much as you would need to provide sufficient training. In short, the idea does not work because you have no way to achieve the repetitions needed to provide any real benefit.

    I'm sorry--you've just run me out. There's too much in these posts for me to handle in less than an hour, and I don't have an hour every day for your game. I'll have to deal with the rest next time.

    --M. J. Young

    Sat Oct 10 2009 2:17 am #
41. 

    Max
    Member

    if the duration were short enough the bonus might offset it. In any case, if you're changing the duration, you're creating a new skill.

    I will keep this in mind when creating a new skill.

    Is it your intention to do this every day, or to practice it every day?

    I will practice this every day. My reason for this is the deer would be able to survive even if the skill fails and if it succeed the deer would be able to forage enough food to last it for a couple of days.

    In short, the idea does not work because you have no way to achieve the repetitions needed to provide any real benefit.

    Alert me then if I have enough skill to manipulate object quickly to achieve the repetitions needed for the intuition practice.

    I'm sorry--you've just run me out. There's too much in these posts for me to handle in less than an hour, and I don't have an hour every day for your game. I'll have to deal with the rest next time.

    Do not worry. You can deal with my post in parts. That is what I suggested earlier on, remember?

    *****

    I think I should bring the below to the new month.

    So lets change the variable to how much time the subject is observed before coming to conclusion.
    The first variant will be 1 minute of observation.
    The second variant will be 2 minutes of observation.
    The third variant will be 4 minutes of observation.
    The target of observation is Morani.
    If all the above succeed then I will practice it temporarily until I have gather the success rate for each skill.

    Speaking of the right candidate for concentrating on "what I want the skill to do", does read visual information suit this criteria?
    If it does then I will create a second experiment where:
    The first variant will be 1 minute of concentration (on visualizing the mind pattern and visual pathway of the target with my eyes closed) then initiating the read visual information skill.
    The second variant will be 2 minutes of concentration then initiating the read visual information skill.
    The third variant will be 4 minutes of concentration then initiating the read visual information skill.
    The target of this skill is Morani.
    If all the above succeed then I will practice it temporarily until I have gather the success rate for each skill.

    Sat Oct 10 2009 11:08 am #
42. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Let's tackle the analyze behavior skill. Your objective is to know "what Morani is thinking" based on observing his actions. You want to test this by observing his actions for different periods of time, and seeing whether it "works" or "works better" at different durations of observation.

    Question: how will you know whether it worked? That is, how will you know whether what you think Morani is thinking is what he is actually thinking? Or is this supposed to be more like mind reading, that you will after looking at him connect to his mind and hear his thoughts (in which case, how is it different from mind reading, which you already have)?

    If I understand the next aright, using your skill at reading information in the visual cortex of a target you want to define three new skills all of which do the same thing, except that one requires a minute of concentration on the technique before connecting, one requires two minutes, and one requires four minutes. Once you have learned them, you want to perform each of them multiple times to determine a success rate for each.

    With the understanding that in order to determine a success rate you will have to "do" (not "practice") the skills multiple times (which means rolling them individually), how many times do you wish to attempt each skill once you have learned it?

    --M. J. Young

    Mon Oct 12 2009 11:56 pm #
43. 

    Max
    Member

    Or is this supposed to be more like mind reading, that you will after looking at him connect to his mind and hear his thoughts

    I will not connect to the target's mind thus will not hear the target's thoughts. I will only conclude what the target mind is thinking through observation.

    how will you know whether it worked?

    A good question. I can probably mind read him after the analyze behavior skill to see if I am right (but I think I will keep this option as last resort) or I can ask Lelach to ask Morani himself about what I think he was thinking. A situation where I think the skill would be easier to test out is when Morani is looking for something and I will try to understand what it is that he was looking for. If he finds what he was looking for then I can confirm what he was thinking and if he could not then I will ask Lelach to ask him what he was looking for.

    Familiarity that was gained from the analyze behavior skill, is it the same or different from the mind reading skill familiarity?

    With the understanding that in order to determine a success rate you will have to "do" (not "practice") the skills multiple times (which means rolling them individually), how many times do you wish to attempt each skill once you have learned it?

    Could I practice the skill for longer period of time and then calculate the success rate of the skill just like what I have done before?
    I am in no hurry to know the success rate of the skill and it would be better to know the result after practicing it for some time and noting the success rate of each skill.

    What have change in this new month (Month 10)?
    I did say that I was going to do the above in the new month right?

    If you manage to do the above and still want some more action then I have planned to create a new skill:
    First, draw a spiral symbol using saliva to each of the leaf that will be use for intuition training.
    Second, mark an area of training (using grass that have my saliva on) by making spiral symbol where the center of the symbol will be me. The area of training should be really familiar with me and I have stayed there for more than a week thus probably gather some psionic residue of my own pattern. The effective training area will be as small as possible but still efficient for the training.
    Third, scatter the training leaves all around the raining area.
    Fourth, sit and put both of my hand to the center spiral of training area.
    Fifth, flap my wings that the effect will be like a helicopter that is close to ground and will float the object around it.
    Sixth, transfer the energy of the wings by channeling it to the leaves (using the the hands that is connected to the ground) so that the leaves will spiral upwards.
    Seventh, if the leaves have started to spiral upwards then the hand will sync with their movement until they will reach a point just above my head where I will clap both of my hands together and the leaves will scatter randomly inside the training area.

    All of the above items are specifics and if any new item have to be used then a new skill have to be created. I wonder if this skill is do-able.
    Do you have any question regarding the skill above?

    Tue Oct 13 2009 10:46 am #
44. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    A situation where I think the skill would be easier to test out is when Morani is looking for something and I will try to understand what it is that he was looking for.

    Hmmm...my immediate reaction is, how many different things are there for which Morani could be looking? Food and water, which he would seek on schedule; clothes, which would not be changed that often; materials to repair leaks in the door, but I don't really envision there being leaks in the door and if there were you would probably know it; chamber pot, that aspect of life in the tree which we're sort of ignoring. But then, perhaps the limited range of possibilities makes this a skill you could learn in this situation and practice after you're out again (when Morani might be looking for weapons, tools, food, firewood, rocks, and a lot of other things). You learn the skill. The baseline assumes you are using it on someone you know, but it will work with others.

    Telepathic familiarity is different.

    Could I practice the skill for longer period of time and then calculate the success rate of the skill just like what I have done before?
    I am in no hurry to know the success rate of the skill and it would be better to know the result after practicing it for some time and noting the success rate of each skill.

    This is getting complicated. Let's take a step back and tackle the skills one at a time; my recollection is that at the moment you don't know any of the skills you're talking about practicing, so pick one, outline exactly what is entailed, and we'll see whether you can learn it.

    In the last reference I can find to what month it is, it was stated to be the eighth month on September 20. Unless you can point me to a post in which I say it is the ninth month, it is still the eighth.

    --M. J. Young

    Thu Oct 15 2009 12:01 am #
45. 

    Max
    Member

    You learn the skill.

    I guess this would be the instant observation variant.
    Lets see if I can practice it with my read visual information skill so that I can understand what other creatures (that I do not have mind connection) are thinking.

    Telepathic familiarity is different.

    What would I put in the character sheet if I have familiarity understanding a specific group type or specific individual?
    Do I put +10 understanding of Morani or something?
    If the target options to act are limited, would the skill be bonus for it?

    *****

    This is getting complicated.

    Oops... Sorry about that. For some reason, I really like complicated things.

    Now that I have learn the root skill, I will experiment with its variant.
    Lets try the first variant, a minute of observation of the target before concluding what the target is thinking.
    If the skill I learned before is the skill above then I would move on to the next skill.

    Next, try the second variant, 2 minutes of observation of the target before concluding what the target is thinking.

    The chosen target for this skill is Morani and if that would not do (because the effect of the previous skill still persists for an example) then any creature will do as target.

    *****

    Unless you can point me to a post in which I say it is the ninth month, it is still the eighth.

    Transition from month 8 to month 9 on September 24.
    Either way is fine with me but I did say that the above action will be done in the new month.

    If this is a new month, is there any changes that I feel such as easier articulating words, walking (without support) for a few steps, tumbling, or something?

    chamber pot, that aspect of life in the tree which we're sort of ignoring

    I wonder if I have learned to use it by now.

    Thu Oct 15 2009 4:05 pm #

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