Gaming Outpost Discussions

1. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   I would expect that what you call the "instant" observation variant requires about a minute of observation; higher rolls give more accurate/detailed information more quickly. There is a problem with doing the same thing based on someone else's visual information: when you see through someone else's eyes, you see what they choose to observe, and have no control over what they observe.

   I would say that indicating bonuses for particular individuals or groups is acceptable; at present you are only about +2 on Morani and Lelach--but yes, the limited possibilities increases your chance of success somewhat.

   The longer you observe someone the better your chance of understanding what he is doing, with two caveats. First, there is a rule of diminishing return--two minutes is better than one minute, but the same increase is not repeated until four minutes, and then eight minutes; that is, doubling the time you observe has a noticeable increase in your chance of success. Second, if you go too long there is a significant chance that your target will change what he is doing, at which point you can conclude what he was doing or start over to determine what he is doing now.

   Indeed, it appears that it is the ninth month, December. I apologize that I could not find that. (I should remember to bold those calendar references to make them easier to spot.) I believe we have resolved most of the issues with the Perceive Purpose skill (which I am treating as a single skill with increased probabilities of success for increased duration of observation, as indicated), so we will call it January, and you are now turning ten months old.

   You now can manage to move from prone to seated, and also to move from standing to sitting, although this latter is accomplished by a controlled fall. You've occasionally managed to take one step without support, but not yet two. Your mother now plays a game not unlike pat-a-cake with you, working daily on your hand/eye coordination, which is above average. You also are able to help some with your own clothes and with feeding yourself, although not nearly so well as you would like.

   --M. J. Young

   Thu Oct 15 2009 11:32 pm #
2. 

   Max
   Member

   Wow, the previous page is really long and takes a while to load on slow connections.

   There is a problem with doing the same thing based on someone else's visual information: when you see through someone else's eyes, you see what they choose to observe, and have no control over what they observe.

   Can I still perceive what the other creature (Creature X) is thinking if the creature that I read visual information from (Creature Y) observes Creature X for a period longer than a minute (or adds to over a minute provided that Creature X is still doing the same thing)?

   the limited possibilities increases your chance of success somewhat.

   How do you plan to calculate the freedom of action bonus?
   If only two actions can be done for an example, the bonus would probably be up to +50 right?
   So the bonus calculation would be 100/x where x is freedom of action, right?

   *****

   January have arrived, humans probably celebrate New Year during this time of the year.
   I wonder if sprite celebrate New Year too or did they celebrate it at the beginning of spring?

   Your mother now plays a game not unlike pat-a-cake with you

   Aha, a clapping game. I wonder if I can modify the game a little bit to include Morse code so that I can communicate effectively with Lelach (if she wants to communicate this way) or just practicing the alphabets of Morse code with it.
   How about "Create a word game" (using Morse code and clapping) which probably can teach Lelach a bit of spelling in English?
   To aid her to spell the first time, the phrase "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" might help.

   I wonder if there are any changes to my clothes in the winter.

   The next experiment is where I actually use psionic power.

   Speaking of the right candidate for concentrating on "what I want the skill to do", does read visual information suit this criteria?
   If it does then I will create a second experiment where:
   The first variant will be 1 minute of concentration (on visualizing the mind pattern and visual pathway of the target with my eyes closed) then initiating the read visual information skill.
   The second variant will be 2 minutes of concentration then initiating the read visual information skill.
   The third variant will be 4 minutes of concentration then initiating the read visual information skill.
   The target of this skill is Morani.

   Do you have any question regarding the above experiment?
   If it works then practice the above skill with Perceive Purpose skill together in General mind reading package (Slot 8).

   I would like to try more skills but I think it is better to process one skill per month unless a situation arise where it is needed.

   *****

   If we get to the new month...
   I wonder if there are any changes in new month?

   Fri Oct 16 2009 12:17 pm #
3. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   There would be a penalty against your chance of success.

   When you study what someone is doing to try to figure out what they are thinking, your eyes stray purposefully to specific cues--their hands, their eyes, their stance, the way they move their heads. You specifically look at these things. When you are seeing through someone else's eyes, you cannot specifically look at anything--it's not quite as if you have a movie screen on which their visual information is displayed for you to observe, but rather that you can see whatever it is at which they are looking. For example, if you were to tap the visual cortext of some beach bum staring at a girl, you might well have a very clear image of her breasts and her bottom and her legs, but only a fleeting glimpse of her face, because he wasn't looking at her face. If you tapped the eyes of a hungry homeless man at the dining table of a shelter, you might never see the faces of the people feeding him or the people eating with him--only of the food that is placed before him. In that sense, you could probably develop a skill which enabled you to learn much about the interests and mental conditions of a target based on an analysis of the visual information it gathers--what is it that the rabbit considers important to see in its world.

   I think your calculation of freedom of action is a bit extreme all the way around. +50 is about as big a bonus as I ever give for any single factor. If what you mean is that the target could only be doing A or B, so you've got a really good chance of knowing which, that already assumes that you know that it can only be A or B--that you know with certainty that there is not some possibility C outside your knowledge.

   As to how I am going to calculate it, that's a mechanics question and not properly something to discuss in the game thread. That may seem like nit-picking, but from my perspective it would be inappropriate for me to inform a player of the odds of success in a way that would give him knowledge of his probability of success directly. I would discuss that with someone trying to learn to be a referee. Since in this thread I am talking to Maxx the player, probabilities and how they are calculated is not part of that discussion; if Maxx the referee has questions about such things, they will be asked and answered in other threads or behind the screens.

   I'm also not certain whether I've made a decision about that yet, and am extremely limited on time so I'm not going to look through my notes--it only matters when you actually use the skill (and not when you practice it).

   The development of the holiday celebrating the new year is tied to astronomical observations which correspond with the changing of seasons--in this case, originally the winter solstice, the shortest day of the year, and thus the day on which days start getting longer. Modern calendars have shifted it almost two weeks. I have not said that the sprites call this month January, but have been using our months to help you and me track the seasons and conditions against the passing of time. In any event, since sprites are universally enclosed inside their winter homes at this time of year, they are unlikely to have observed the winter solstice and thus unlikely to have celebrated it. Whether they celebrate a new year at some other time is not established.

   Are you going to use telepathy to explain this idea to Lelach? This will, of course, involve explaining the concept of Morse code and teaching her the alphabetic representations of all the letters. I would also suggest that a sentence which includes all the letters of the alphabet is a bad choice for teaching someone the code--you want to start with the smallest number of the most important letters possible and build the others into the knowledge base over time. In English I believe the frequency of vowels is e, a, i, o, u, y, and the most common consonants are t and s, but it's been a long time since I studied that stuff and I've already told you more than I know.

   The clothes are the same in winter. You use blankets and the interior of the tree for warmth. Occasionally your parents will rise into the air flapping their wings, which among other things might be trying to warm and circulate the air. Lelach hovers quite well, Morani not so.

   You learn all three of those skills; the two-minute variant comes most easily the first time, and surprisingly the four-minute variant is the weakest on this first attempt.

   --M. J. Young

   Wed Oct 21 2009 1:43 am #
4. 

   Max
   Member

   There would be a penalty against your chance of success.

   I know that it would be penalized but at least it is do-able.

   If what you mean is that the target could only be doing A or B, so you've got a really good chance of knowing which, that already assumes that you know that it can only be A or B--that you know with certainty that there is not some possibility C outside your knowledge.

   That is what I mean but probably it can be multiplied by certainty percentage too.

   As to how I am going to calculate it, that's a mechanics question and not properly something to discuss in the game thread.

   Oops, sorry. Maxx thinks in statistical manner and that probably translates in Morach's thinking too.

   I have not said that the sprites call this month January

   I have guessed that January is an estimation of what Maxx thinks what month it is.
   Thanks for the educational info on New Year holiday.

   a sentence which includes all the letters of the alphabet

   That sentence is only use for reference considering it is easy to remember and this is only used to teach Lelach on spelling in English and not used to teach Morse code of course. This is provided that Lelach knows how to speak English but did not know how to spell what she speaks.
   Teaching Morse code would be hard if she does not know how to spell so spelling have to come first.
   I wonder if Lelach know the alphabet song but since she could not spell I think she would not. I wonder if that is a good place to start.
   Let start from words Lelach know first. When Lelach say the word that she know I will spell it out in Morse code. With enough words probably she could figure out what letter the code represents.
   I will try to present this idea in my telepathy practice but I may also try it without using telepathy if I see Lelach can catch on what I was doing when she try to speak something.
   This will be a test to see if Lelach can notice what I was doing without me explaining anything to her.
   I wonder if you need to know if I have teach anyone before or get paid for teaching?
   (The answer for that question is yes.)

   Lelach hovers quite well, Morani not so.

   Did I notice any difference from the way they hover that makes one of them better than the other or is it the flexible wings make hovering much easier?
   Looks like I have to have to observe them carefully so that I can learn the optimal flying pattern for various situation.

   You learn all three of those skills; the two-minute variant comes most easily the first time, and surprisingly the four-minute variant is the weakest on this first attempt.

   Well, that is random. (Sometime you hit the bulls-eye sometime you don't.) Look like I have to practice these variants (in Slot 8) so that I can know more about it. I will note the success rate of these 3 variants.

   *****

   The next month (Month 11):

   develop a skill which enabled you to learn much about the interests and mental conditions of a target based on an analysis of the visual information

   Would this be the same as my Perceive Purpose skill (a new use) or would it be a new skill?
   If it is a new skill then I will develop it in Month 11.

   Is there any new changes in this month?

   Wed Oct 21 2009 11:33 am #
5. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   Yes, Lelach and Morani speak English. Girls are not talk to read and write. Boys are. She does not know the alphabet, although she can recognize that some symbols are either letters or numbers, either English or Old Spritish. She has heard names of some of the letters, but does not know anything about them.

   You try clapping your hands while she's talking, and she laughs and says, "You sure do like to clap your hands."

   If you have skill at teaching and are planning to try to teach Lelach something, now would be a good time to tell me how good you are at it. I am assuming you are not a professional teacher, because you did not mention having professional skill in teaching at character creation.

   It is the flexibility of Lelach's wings that give her the ability to hover; she can move them much more precisely in strange patterns to hold herself steady. Morani has much more power in his wings, but less control.

   All right, it turns to February and you are in month 11. You are now able to move around rather quickly on your feet as long as you can use an object for support, such as a wall or an object that is at least chest-high. You can also grip a stick as if it were a writing utensil, and Morani comments about your interest in writing, saying you are going to be a great scholar one day. Lelach notes that he would have preferred to be the father of a great hunter, but he shrugs and says that a father should not make his son what his son is not.

   I'm inclined to say that understanding the interests and "mental conditions" of an observed target is a different application of the same skill of perceiving the purpose of a character's actions, but 1) interests are more long-term and harder to perceive and 2) I'm not certain what "mental conditions" are. If by "interests" you mean only what the target's interests are in the present moment, that does not seem significantly different to me than "purpose" in terms of what the skill can tell you, so maybe I need a better understanding of what you're attempting to discern.

   --M. J. Young

   Thu Oct 22 2009 2:47 am #
6. 

   Max
   Member

   At least she laughs when I clap my hands. I like it when people laugh especially people close to me.
   I knew that would be a good way to test Lelach's intuition.

   Looks like I need to balance flexibility and power so that the wing growth will be optimal.

   *****

   you did not mention having professional skill in teaching at character creation.

   Well, I did not mention anything about myself in character creation, did I?
   I did tell you that I will inform you anything related when the time has come.

   how good you are at it

   Good enough to get paid, likes to give puzzle (or analogy) to the student so that the student will think more about the related problem and its solution (and evaluating the student capability or limitation with it), can sense mistake in the work of the student and can point out to the student what is wrong about it (indirectly at first but if that does not work then I will point it out directly), searching for a way that will make the student understand better (such as discussion with peer, read certain topic or practice the basic) and other techniques.

   I wonder if I can perceive response of intended action by analyzing behavior of the target.
   Would the above be a new use for Perceive Purpose or a new skill?
   The target this time is Lelach and the intended action would be teaching her spelling. There might be a good time to teach her where she would accept the teaching willingly and there might be a time where she is busy or simply feels reluctant to do so.
   This will make me more aware of her situation before I teach her anything.

   *****

   develop a skill which enabled you to learn much about the interests and mental conditions of a target based on an analysis of the visual information it gathers--what is it that the rabbit considers important to see in its world.

   Looks like I have to quote you fully so that you do not misunderstood what I mean.
   Would the skill above be the same as my Perceive Purpose skill (a new use) or would it be a new skill?
   I will try the skill above when I manage to read visual information of any target in practice.

   *****

   preferred to be the father of a great hunter

   I have learned archery back in the university but using composite bow of course.
   There is no reason not to be both a good scholar and a good hunter, is there?
   Unless there are rules preventing scholar to be a hunter and vice versa.
   To me, a good scholar must have knowledge in various fields and hunting is included in my list of things to learn.

   You can also grip a stick as if it were a writing utensil

   Does this mean that I have enough object manipulation skill needed for the repetition of intuition practice?
   If not, can I estimate how long will it take me to have enough body skill (with constant practice) to do the above?

   Thu Oct 22 2009 5:40 pm #
7. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   Well, I did not mention anything about myself in character creation, did I?
   I did tell you that I will inform you anything related when the time has come.

   True--and I in turn argued that I would be reluctant to add professional or expert level skills to your character sheet at some future moment when they were relevant.

   It's a problem of incentives: when you tell me your skills at character creation, your motivation is to create a character that is as much like you as possible, so that your strengths will be realized within the game. You might exaggerate some of your strengths, but the game is flexible enough to handle that. You are unlikely in that circumstance to give yourself professional level skills in areas where you are quite evidently amateur, except in those skills where a "professional" level of ability is not sufficient to get a paycheck (swimming, playing bridge, starting fires) and so wouldn't be thought professional. When the game is in progress, you have an incentive to exaggerate your skill ability level on skills which are needed for the present circumstance--in this case, to claim that you are a superior teacher, because you want to use that to reach an in-game objective. The system's defense against that is to forbid the addition of professional or expert level skills once the character generation process is completed, except in two case, the one when the skill is simply remembered as an overlooked point (not being relevant presently, but the player suddenly realized that he had forgotten something he should have included), the other when the skill is of the sort previously mentioned, a skill at which "professional" level of ability would not be caught by the usual test.

   Thus your reticence at character creation has put me in a quandary: even without impugning your motives (even if I believe that you, someone whose identity has been kept completely secret from me, would not intentionally lie about your abilities), I must account for the possibility that you are unintentionally exaggerating your abilities in the hope that you will get a higher score and so have a better chance of success in the current circumstance.

   To compensate, I am lowballing your skill ability level--you'll get the professional 2@1, but not the average professional, even though the description you give would have impressed me if I got it at character generation.

   Emhpasis mine:
   

   I wonder if I can perceive response of intended action by analyzing behavior of the target.

   Do you mean predict? If so, I would say that was a reasonable application of the skill; I'm not completely convinced that it's a "new use" in the technical sense, but I'll allow it if you want to roll to use it as such.

   Concerning the skill that allows you to understand "much about the interests and mental conditions of a target based on an analysis of the visual information it gathers", I'm content either way. If you'd like to make it another application of the same skill, I'll certainly give you a new use the first time you roll for it; if you want it to be a new skill, I'll allow that, too.

   Just to be clear on the advantages/disadvantages: if you have two skills, you can try each of them separately, and thus if one fails the other might provide information; if you have one skill, it might increase in ability level slightly faster, and so have a lower chance to fail.

   So on this one I'll let you call it.

   I did not say that you could not be both a great scholar and a great hunter; it is Lelach's response, her perception that people generally excel at one or the other. Morani seems to agree that that is the norm, but I think even among people you'll recognize that most people who excel do so in narrow areas, with only a very few breaking the bounds to be great in multiple areas. That was more true earlier times--da Vinci is remarkable for excelling in both art and science/technology, but I never heard anyone say he was a champion bocce player.

   Your ability with the stick is about comparable to that of a child who can scribble on paper. Control will still require more development: you would have great difficulty coloring within the lines, if there were colors and lines.

   --M. J. Young

   Thu Oct 22 2009 10:48 pm #
8. 

   Max
   Member

   True--and I in turn argued that I would be reluctant to add professional or expert level skills to your character sheet at some future moment when they were relevant.

   Fair enough. I would even be happy to be given amateur level skill to the skill that I have. That would give me more challenge and can act like an ability seal for any ability that I have.

   Do you mean predict?

   I really wanted to put 'predict' at first but then thought that it would be confused with a new skill so I intentionally put 'perceive' there.

   So on this one I'll let you call it.

   The skill I wanted to try is predict response and visual info analysis.
   The target for predict response is Lelach and the intended action is teaching her spelling.
   The target for visual info analysis is any creature that I read visual information from practice.
   Let fate decide, so first roll for new use and if that fails then create a new skill.
   The complication would be what variant of the perceive purpose skill would you calculate right?
   That depends on the time I observe the target right?
   Lets say the time would be the average time the target could stay on the same task in the target current situation.

   excelling in both art and science/technology

   That would be needed in virtual or augmented reality field.

   I never heard anyone say he was a champion bocce player

   A hidden talent perhaps?
   Well, if he can calculate the angle and velocity plus a bit of training to match the calculation perhaps he can do it but I think he would rather do something else.

   Control will still require more development

   I will give myself until Month 18 to learn how to control my body properly enough to practice intuition and if I still have problem with my body control then I will develop a new skill (which is Spiral Leaves).

   After I know the result whether Lelach wanted to learn spelling from me, I will act accordingly.
   If she wanted to then I will teach her during telepathy practice and if she does not want to then I will do my usual routine and wait for the next month to see if she changed her mind (because she is interested in what I do or some other reason).

   Fri Oct 23 2009 9:15 am #
9. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   You believe that Lelach perceives herself as too busy to learn reading or writing, which are subjects taught to boys, not to their mothers, and for which boys, who have access to books, would have some use.

   That's a new use.

   --M. J. Young

   Mon Oct 26 2009 1:58 am #
10. 

    Max
    Member

    Lelach perceives herself as too busy to learn reading or writing, which are subjects taught to boys, not to their mothers, and for which boys, who have access to books, would have some use.

    Well, I thought so. That is why I will teach Lelach spelling in game form only. This will probably peak her interest to learn more about it. As long both of us are having fun playing the game, whether Lelach learns spelling when playing the game will come second.

    Concerning the skill that allows me to understand "much about the interests and mental conditions of a target based on an analysis of the visual information it gathers", did I learn this skill?
    Is it a new use for Perceive Purpose (if I succeed) or a new separate skill (if I fail the new use)?
    The target for the above skill is any creature that I read visual information from practice.

    *****

    Well, onto Month 12 then.
    Are there any changes that have happen during the new month?
    I think it would probably be spring outside the winter tree.
    I wonder what skill or attribute have increase since Month 6.

    Mon Oct 26 2009 1:24 pm #
11. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    The interpretation of the interests and mental condition of a creature by analyzing its own visual data (what it sees) is a new skill which you manage to learn. The deer is constantly alert for predators, and so keeps aware of its surroundings even while foraging.

    In March you find that you can stand momentarily without any support at all, but not yet walk unassisted. You can walk while holding Lelach's hand.

    Morani decides that it's warm enough to start removing the insulation from the door and take days outside, but to return to the tree in the evenings. The curtain is returned to keep the warmth inside at night, and some cleaning is done to make the tree more habitable. You begin having cooked meals again.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Oct 27 2009 11:03 pm #
12. 

    Max
    Member

    Good to hear some news from the deer.

    Happy birth month (or season) anniversary I guess?
    Refresh my memory, how does sprite count their age again?
    They have to know basic counting and know the year cycle to do that right?
    Does sprite celebrate any event according to the year cycle?
    The answer to above question may come from observation or discussion with Lelach.

    Can trying to stand longer (without support) be a practice of willpower or something?

    There are probably plenty creature going out to search for things to eat right after winter. I wonder if I have tagged any of these creatures.
    Cooked meals, yummy.

    I wonder if I can help with the cleaning.

    Wed Oct 28 2009 1:57 pm #
13. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    As far as you can tell, Sprites count years as humans do, but they don't seem to have so rigorous a calendar. You are a year old "sometime around now". They don't have holidays or holy days of that sort, because they don't track them that way. The decision to enter the tree and to exit it is based on clues in the climate, not on calendar days.

    The only thing standing longer will practice is balance, which is a skill that is gradually improving anyway, because all kids try to stand longer.

    You can't walk well enough to be much help with the cleaning. You can get around by crawling, or by following the walls, or by holding someone's hand. If you crawl, you don't have your hands free. If you support yourself by the wall you only have one hand free and are limited in where you can go. If you hold someone's hand, you've only got one hand free and you're using one of theirs. But they do let you help some, more because it's cute than because it is helpful, and Lelach says it will help teach you responsibility.

    Most of the insects you contacted last year are gone, although there are a few still around. The larger creatures such as squirrels and mice are mostly returning.

    --M. J. Young

    Thu Oct 29 2009 12:01 am #
14. 

    Max
    Member

    If you support yourself by the wall you only have one hand free and are limited in where you can go.

    I will help cleaning the area near the wall, then stack the things needed to throw out near the exit so my parents can throw it out later.

    I just hope you get the skills level updated every 6 months so that you will be less confused later on. Some of the skill level probably increase by now and my journal can point out some of the skill milestone for reference.

    *****

    In the next month (April):

    I did say that I was thinking of a new skill after the winter.
    Considering that it is spring, that would be out-of-sight mind tagging using knowledge of relative position or other creature visual information.
    Both of my hands will be the aid to focus in this skill.
    My left hand will act as a pen and my right hand will act as a paper.
    The area of my right hand will represent my line of sight range or an area enclosed within a circle with a radius of 10 steps (normal adult sprite steps).
    If my right hand is perpendicular to my chest then it represents the horizontal axis and if parallel to my chest then it represents vertical axis.
    By tracing a line from the center of my right hand to where the target is I can tag the target mind.
    For an example, a creature that is 25 steps ahead and 5 steps above:
    1) I will lay my right hand perpendicular to my chest.
    2) I will trace the line from center to the direction of the target (ahead) until the end of my palm two and a half times.
    3) I will turn my hand parallel to my chest.
    4) I will trace the line form center to the direction of the target (upward) ending halfway from the end of my palm.
    5) I will then close my right hand and put it close to my head for concentration.
    6) The concentration time will be about a minute plus (distance covered by skill divided by 10 steps which would be) 3 minutes.
    I could tilt my hand at a certain angle and go less distance but my body skills are probably not accurate enough yet to represent such angle.

    The target for the skill above is any creature that I have not tagged but I know their position base on the information I got from my other skills, calculation or others.

    For the creature (Creature A) that I did not know the relative position to me but I know their existence through the visual information of other creature (Creature B), I will try and tag it by tracing the information (from Creature B) back to me that acts like a beacon.

    Is there any new changes in the month?

    Thu Oct 29 2009 2:20 pm #
15. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    I'm a bit unclear on this new skill, but I recognize that you are combining two distinct concepts.

    First, you propose that you could know the exact position of a creature that you cannot see. It seems to me that there could be three possible explanations for this, one that something obstructs your view, two that the distance is too great, and three that the target is invisible. For the third, I think that were you able to stare directly at an invisible creature, knowing exactly where it was (distance and direction) such that you were looking at the seemingly empty space where it physically existed, that would count as looking at it. For the other two, my concern is how you would know the exact position. That is, supposing that you are looking directly at an ant on a tree across the clearing, which is too small for you to see at that distance. How do you know the position of the ant precisely enough to target it? So that's my problem here: how do you propose to know the exact position of a creature. You've indicated that you would use other skills to determine this, but I'm not seeing any skills on your sheet that would give you the location of an object whose position was not obvious to your senses.

    Second, you want to target a creature whose position is known to you relative to another creature whose sensory information you are tapping, such that if you are seeing through the eyes of the deer and the deer sees a fox, you could tag the fox. I'm not uncomfortable with such a skill; I'm uncomfortable with the notion that you could know the relative position of the fox to you based on the relative position of the fox to the deer. Nothing in your telepathic connection to the deer tells you where the deer is relative to you. It could be in Afganistan, if such a place exists in this world, and except for what it perceives around it you would not know that it was not just beyond the next tree. So the hand signals in this case are not possible, because you can't know the direction of the target relative to you based on its position relative to some other target whose position you do not know relative to you.

    So for the first problem I need to understand how you propose to know the position of an unseen target, and for the second we need to redesign the skill to eliminate the hand involvement that would be inherently incorrect, unless (I suppose this could be the case) you are trying to use the hands to point in the direction the target is from the creature through whom you are seeing it--which might be tricky itself, since you might not know the position of the head relative to the body at any given moment. (How can you tell if the deer is looking straight ahead?)

    --M. J. Young

    Fri Oct 30 2009 3:15 am #
16. 

    Max
    Member

    This is the new month (April) right?
    Sorry for not being too clear. It is really two distinct skills but both skills result will be tagging the creature.

    The rules of the first skill:
    1) I know the relative position of the animal to me but the animal is not in my line of sight. (This might be possible through heighten awareness, shadow of the creature, sound of the creature, info from other creature and others.)
    An animal that lives in a cave or hole that I could not see inside probably is an example of this.
    2) This skill uses hand signals to focus on the relative position of the target.
    3) The targeted creature must remain stationary during the skill execution or end up at the targeted position at the end of the concentration period.
    If I intend to tag Creature A but Creature B replaces Creature A position after the concentration period then I will tag Creature B instead.

    The rules of the second skill:
    1) I see the target creature through the visual information of other creature.
    2) I do not necessarily know the relative position of these creatures relative to me.
    3) This skill does not use any hand signal.

    I hope the above clears it up.

    Does Morach let me play with the bow (not the arrow) or make a miniature size one for me if I looked interested in playing with it?
    Are there any changes in the new month?

    Fri Oct 30 2009 8:07 am #
17. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Don't rush me! All right, then, it's April, and you are now thirteen months old.

    You are now walking unsupported--not quickly, not for long distances, but quite independently. Lelach is keeping a much tighter eye on you so you don't wander away.

    The first skill, then, would target creatures at whom you are not looking or for whom your view is impeded by some intervening obstacle. (This would not include someone you could not see because of darkness but whose position you knew well enough to stare directly at him with both eyes, except in the case that you were not looking at his position.)

    Your efforts to learn that skill do not come together on the first day that you're working on it.

    --M. J. Young

    Sun Nov 1 2009 4:10 am #
18. 

    Max
    Member

    Don't rush me!

    Sorry for rushing things (or doing similar action that might be interpreted as one). I thought that in March Morach was busy with spring cleaning so probably he did not have enough time to develop a new skill then which is why he develop the new skill in April. If you have any new event happening during March for example, you can stall the month advancement. I am just telling you what Morach would do in the following month and you can advance the month according to your pace.

    I will walk inside the clearing perimeter to exercise my legs so that it can get used to walking. I will also (sometime) try to flap my wings when I walk to see if I can make a small hop (or make the walking faster) with it.

    The first skill, then, would target creatures at whom you are not looking or for whom your view is impeded by some intervening obstacle.

    I will try the above skill again once per day for a week until I succeed or until something else happens.

    I will also try the second skill (tag a creature using other creature visual information) once per day for a week until I succeed or until something else happens.

    Speaking of rushing things, I wonder if I can haste myself to do things mentally. I will think of a fast beat song and will try to match the song beat with my actions.

    Sun Nov 1 2009 11:50 am #
19. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    You find the visual cortex of your deer. It has panoramic vision, so you can see the bird which comes into view--but you fail to get the tag, whether because it passed through too quickly or because the unfocused nature of the deer's panoramic vision does not lend itself to focusing on objects it sees is more than you can say.

    The next day you try the first again, and connect to a creature hiding behind a tree.

    You also connect with the mind of one of your animal friends, this time a bird, and using its visual information tag the mind of a beetle, shortly before the bird eats it.

    Lelach is pleased to see you playing with your wings as you walk.

    How much haste are you anticipating getting from this effort?

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Nov 3 2009 1:54 am #
20. 

    Max
    Member

    The next day you try the first again, and connect to a creature hiding behind a tree.

    Do I know or have a clue to what this creature really is?
    This reminds me that I should put clairvoyant as the next skill to develop.

    tag the mind of a beetle, shortly before the bird eats it.

    Well, that is the circle of life.

    I will practice both of my new skills in the mind reading package slot if there is enough time for it.

    I really have to work on the wings so that it have enough force to counter my weight or control the air surrounding me significantly.

    How much haste are you anticipating getting from this effort?

    Lets try double (the speed of my normal action) or at least the amount (of speed) needed to repeat my intuition practice effectively.
    If it works to speed up my action then I will practice it with my intuition practice (if the intuition practice will be effective by repetition done by the haste skill).

    If I still have time to develop a new skill then I will try to develop clairvoyant next. Considering that I can tag creature with my new skills (especially the first one), I could probably device a skill that see the location that I choose rather than tag a creature in that current location.
    The skill would go as follow:
    First, close my eyes and remember the location that have been seen before (either through my eyes or other creature).
    Second, concentrate on picturing that location for about 4 minutes until it become vivid.
    Third, feel the visual information of that location flowing into the mind.
    Fourth, control the 'vision' with hand movements by pointing where I wanted the 'vision' to go.

    Tue Nov 3 2009 1:03 pm #
21. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Do I know or have a clue to what this creature really is?

    It's very little information, but in theory you could compare the "frequency" of the mind tagged to those of other creatures you have already tagged to see if it is similar. On that basis, you would guess that it might be an insect of some sort as yet unfamiliar to you.

    You are not able at this time to develop the ability to increase your speed.

    Concerning this clairvoyant skill, you suggest a couple of points that might be permanent limitations or might have been merely part of a learning experiment.

    • Is your clairvoyance limited to places you saw before?
    • Is it a requirement that you remember the place well enough to picture it?
    • Is the four minute concentration a necessary part of using the skill?
    • Are the hand motions necessary to using the skill?

    Just for information purposes, you indicate that the hand motions will point where you want the vision to go. Are the pointing relative to you, or relative to the current visual position? That is, if you point right, the vision turns right; if you point right again, does it continue looking in that direction, or does it turn more right such that it is looking in the opposite direction from its initial viewpoint?

    --M. J. Young

    Thu Nov 5 2009 1:16 am #
22. 

    Max
    Member

    I will keep the "frequency" of this unknown creature in mind for future reference.

    *****

    Is your clairvoyance limited to places you saw before?

    The starting point of the clairvoyance is limited to places that I saw through my eyes or my other skills such as read visual information (or similar skills) and clairvoyant itself.
    Probably will work for the location where out-of-body experience have been to.

    Is it a requirement that you remember the place well enough to picture it?

    As long as I remember how the place looks like (or feel like) from previous visit, even a memory fragment of that place can initiate the skill.

    Is the four minute concentration a necessary part of using the skill?

    This skill probably need the four minute concentration to expand on the memory fragment so that a more vivid picture will come to mind.

    Are the hand motions necessary to using the skill?

    The hand motions are necessary to control where the 'vision' are looking at. Without the hand motion, the 'vision' will be static. (The possibility of using other means to control the 'vision' might be a different skill which takes this skill as an example.)

    If I point right, the vision turns right; if I point right again, it turn more right such that it is looking in the opposite direction from its initial viewpoint. If I point forward the vision will then go forward (with speed close to walking).

    If I succeed in the clairvoyant then I will look around the location that I started the clairvoyant from. I will search an obstacle and try to see through it by making the vision go forward through the obstacle.

    I will also search a new creature that I have not tag yet and try to focus on it for a minute before tagging it. (This might be a variant of mind tagging with one minute of target focus. I wonder if this is similar enough to remote tag mind based on sensory information from third-party mind to take an example from it or a different skill altogether.)

    I wonder what other interesting things that I have seen using this skill.

    *****

    Considering my body is just a baby, it is probably hard to increase my speed.
    I will try to develop my ability to increase my speed by accelerating my speed bit by bit to my goal speed (or maximum speed) by making the song in my head faster and faster.
    I will try to develop the above skill once daily for a week until I succeed or something happens.

    Thu Nov 5 2009 6:01 pm #
23. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    You manage to see the area by the stream where you bathe, and find you can move the image without hand motions easily, and can pass through the stone ledge above the stream without difficulty.

    What you cannot do with this skill is initiate the view at a point you have seen only through the eyes of another; it requires that you know the starting point in real space.

    The tagging of a creature viewed this way would be a new use of 1@1 Tag mind of located hidden subject P3@9 enables the telepathic tagging of the mind of an unfamiliar creature whose position is known but who cannot be viewed because of intervening obstacles. You would have to roll for success for it to be a new use credit.

    --M. J. Young

    Fri Nov 6 2009 12:17 am #
24. 

    Max
    Member

    I wonder what it feels like to look into an obstacle.
    It is probably dark because there is no source of light.
    I wonder if I can differentiate the object color even if there is no light.
    If I could not differentiate the object color then I will keep this in mind for the development of a future skill. (Probably differentiate color in dark.)
    Looking underwater would probably be more interesting and I probably could tag a fish.

    What you cannot do with this skill is initiate the view at a point you have seen only through the eyes of another; it requires that you know the starting point in real space.

    A couple of questions came up:
    1) If for example, my clairvoyant can see through an obstacle to a new location, can I start from that new location?
    2) Can I read the feeling of "real space" of others (such as using Locate Telepathically Known Person) so that I can initiate the clairvoyant at the location of others?
    3) Can I develop a skill that can do the above?

    The tagging of a creature viewed this way would be a new use of 1@1 Tag mind of located hidden subject P3@9 enables the telepathic tagging of the mind of an unfamiliar creature whose position is known but who cannot be viewed because of intervening obstacles. You would have to roll for success for it to be a new use credit.

    If I fail the new use, does this mean I have to develop a new skill for it?
    Can I practice the skill together so that eventually it can be use for that purpose?
    If I still need to roll to use it this way (even if I practice them together) then I will roll for new use and failing that I will try to develop a new skill that takes the example from tag mind of located hidden subject skill.

    I will practice both clairvoyant and remote tagging in mind reading package if it is efficient to practice it with others else I will practice in the new slot (Slot 13).
    I wonder if the skills that I have learned have increase normally after about half a year of practice.

    *****

    I will try to develop my ability to increase my speed by accelerating my speed bit by bit to my goal speed (or maximum speed) by making the song in my head faster and faster.
    I will try to develop the above skill once daily for a week until I succeed or something happens.

    I will do the above if I still have the time to do it in April else I will do it on the coming month.

    Fri Nov 6 2009 2:32 pm #
25. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    1) If for example, my clairvoyant can see through an obstacle to a new location, can I start from that new location?

    Oh, certainly. You could, for example, stand next to a wall and start the clairvoyance on the other side of the wall, because you know that there is a place so many feet from you which is the other side of the wall. You could also look on the other side of the wall next to which you were standing last month, because you know where that wall is and you know sufficiently where the other side would be. You can't, though, look at the other side of a mountain, because you don't know how wide the mountain is. You could, though, look with your eyes up the mountain to see the top, then clairvoyantly jump to the view from the top and look in the distance at the bottom on the other side, and then (on another skill check) jump to the place you saw at the bottom of the mountain on the other side. What you can't do is start in a location that cannot be defined by reference to known fixed objects (fixed in the sense that within a frame of reference in which you can identify your own position you can identify their position).

    2) Can I read the feeling of "real space" of others (such as using Locate Telepathically Known Person) so that I can initiate the clairvoyant at the location of others?
    3) Can I develop a skill that can do the above?

    You can certainly develop a locate target skill that connects to a telepathic target. That's more a clairsentience than a telepathy, but you are familiar with the concepts of both.

    The tagging of a creature viewed this way would be a new use of <i>1@1 Tag mind of located hidden subject P3@9 enables the telepathic tagging of the mind of an unfamiliar creature whose position is known but who cannot be viewed because of intervening obstacles.</i> You would have to roll for success for it to be a new use credit.

    If I fail the new use, does this mean I have to develop a new skill for it?
    Can I practice the skill together so that eventually it can be use for that purpose?
    If I still need to roll to use it this way (even if I practice them together) then I will roll for new use and failing that I will try to develop a new skill that takes the example from tag mind of located hidden subject skill.

    No, in this case my perception is that this is simply a different application of the same skill. If you fail the roll, you'll have to try it again another time. If you succeed eventually you'll get new use for it. If you prefer, you can simply add that as something you are including in practice, and forego the new use credit. (Most players prefer to make rolls for new uses, because this increases skill ability level faster than simple practice. The downside is that you have a chance to botch every time you make an attempt, and botches are by their very nature unpredictable.)

    You manage to increase your speed some with your newly developed haste skill.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Nov 10 2009 4:02 am #
26. 

    Max
    Member

    I will practice my clairvoyant by mapping out the surrounding area in spiral out fashion.
    Given enough time, I could probably map out the whole world.

    What you can't do is start in a location that cannot be defined by reference to known fixed objects (fixed in the sense that within a frame of reference in which you can identify your own position you can identify their position).

    Another interesting limitation. Let me ask a couple of questions:
    1) Does this mean that if I was at sea where I can only look at the ocean I could not start from there because there is no fixed objects there unless I dive to the bottom of the sea (or does celestial constellation during a certain time counts as fixed objects)?
    2) Does this work on location that will be moving such as the interior of a ship?
    3) If the above works, which location will the vision start when the ship starts to move?
    4) If the ship for the above example is replaced by bird because sprite could possibly ride a bird, would the vision be traveling along with the bird?
    5) Can I look at the moon then start clairvoyant from there then look back to earth then target any location on earth that is visible from the moon?

    <blockqoute>You can certainly develop a locate target skill that connects to a telepathic target. That's more a clairsentience than a telepathy, but you are familiar with the concepts of both.</blockqoute>
    I think I already have developed the above skill or at least a similar skill.
    Is it possible to start the clairvoyant skill at the location of the targeted clairsentience location?
    If it is possible then I will add this as practice for clairvoyant.

    If you fail the roll, you'll have to try it again another time. If you succeed eventually you'll get new use for it.

    Can I try to develop my skills by rolling for new use more than once such as rolling for read visual information to be a new use for mind reading repeatedly?
    This could be like failing to found the right way to use it in particular manner until I succeed the roll which will be like founding a trick which will make the skill to work in that particular manner.
    If the above can be done, does this mean I can read visual information using two different skill?

    If you prefer, you can simply add that as something you are including in practice, and forego the new use credit.

    I will simply add that as something I am including in practice.

    You manage to increase your speed some with your newly developed haste skill.

    Does the haste skill manage to help me to effectively practice intuition or do I still more speed for the intuition practice?
    If it is still not enough speed then I will practice it with my other body skills so that my body speed will increase rapidly to match it.
    I could not help but to joke about giving 120% on my first try.

    *****

    I think I will try to develop the skill that is essential for Line of sight experiment on the next month.
    Do you have anything to add before we move to the next month?

    Tue Nov 10 2009 3:48 pm #
27. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    When you say "map", do you mean that you are exploring and making mental notes, or that you are actually attempting to render this to some form of cartographic record?

    Your clairvoyance runs for stretches between one minute and maybe half an hour or so. You can keep restoring it, but it does get tiring. The viewpoint moves at between one and three miles per hour, and interestingly there is a correlation between how fast you can move and how long the skill lasts, suggesting that the better you make the initial connection, the better both of those factors are.

    Another interesting limitation. Let me ask a couple of questions:
    1) Does this mean that if I was at sea where I can only look at the ocean I could not start from there because there is no fixed objects there unless I dive to the bottom of the sea (or does celestial constellation during a certain time counts as fixed objects)?

    Actually, you always count as a fixed object, because within your own frame of reference you always know where you are.

    It would be different attempting to find the ship at sea; it is not fixed within a frame of reference that includes you. However, if you can see the ship with your eyes, it is fixed within your frame of reference relative to you, and you can move to it clairvoyantly.

    2) Does this work on location that will be moving such as the interior of a ship?

    If you are on the ship, it is fixed relative to you; if you have already established a clairvoyant connection with the ship, it is fixed relative to the clairvoyant connection. If you can see the ship, either actually or clairvoyantly, you can immediately move to a point on the interior of the ship (by using the skill (rolling) afresh) if you can define that point based on what you are able to see. You can't say you're going to jump to the captain's quarters, but you can say that you're going to jump to ten feet inside the aft castle below the top deck.

    3) If the above works, which location will the vision start when the ship starts to move?

    You can define the frame of reference. If you make the frame of reference the ship, then the clairvoyance moves or does not move relative to the ship; if you make it the sea, then the ship moves relative to the clairvoyance and you have to move to keep even.

    4) If the ship for the above example is replaced by bird because sprite could possibly ride a bird, would the vision be traveling along with the bird?

    I am not certain I understand this. If you are watching the bird, the bird becomes your frame of reference; if you turn away from the bird but keep the bird as your frame of reference, your vision sees the world moving and the bird as stationary. That can make you dizzy, of course, but not more so than the motion sickness you might get riding the bird.

    5) Can I look at the moon then start clairvoyant from there then look back to earth then target any location on earth that is visible from the moon?

    Technically yes, but the distance from the earth to the moon is great enough and the relative motion fast enough that any such attempt would be very inaccurate. The level of accuracy would be dependent in part on the nature of the target point. If you're looking at the tip of Cape May, New Jersey (that tail that sticks down between the Atlantic Ocean and the Delaware Bay) you probably can hit within twenty miles or so of the desired point on the shoreline. If you're looking at the middle of the Great Plain, it could be several hundred miles from where you hoped to hit.

    Sure enough, I don't know how I overlooked it, but you do have "1@1 Locate telepathically known person P3@1" It appears that that skill identifies direction but not distance, though, and so it does not really give you the location in the sense necessary for clairvoyance.

    You only get new use credit when you succeed in a new use. I understand that failure is part of the lesson, but we don't give credit until the accumulated failures lead to a success. Note that in probabilistic terms, the fact that you can roll again increases your chance of success. (Your chance of not rolling 1 on a d10 in one roll is 90%, but your chance of not rolling 1 on a d10 on two rolls is only 81%.) The down side is that you might botch, which does not increase your skill level but might teach you something anyway.

    You need more agility and hand/eye for the intuition practice; haste does not give you this, it just makes you quicker. To put it in perspective, if every hundred steps you were stumbling and catching yourself, you are still stumbling and catching yourself every hundred steps, you're just making those hundred steps maybe as much as 40% faster.

    And with that we will advance to May, when you are 14 months old, if I'm reading my notes aright. I have no developmental milestones for this month.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Nov 10 2009 11:21 pm #
28. 

    Max
    Member

    When you say "map", do you mean that you are exploring and making mental notes, or that you are actually attempting to render this to some form of cartographic record?

    The former seems to be what I am thinking but the latter seems to be interesting as well. If I want to do the latter in practice, I probably need to practice enhance memory recollection with it.
    Alert me if I happen to tag a human in the process of mapping.

    Very interesting answers. I really like the frame of reference part.
    Can I include vision-riding another creature and earth-moon-earth vision as part of the practice for clairvoyant?
    Getting motion sickness from the bird would probably be weird though considering I am a sprite and I already have read visual information from bird before.

    Sure enough, I don't know how I overlooked it, but you do have "1@1 Locate telepathically known person P3@1" It appears that that skill identifies direction but not distance, though, and so it does not really give you the location in the sense necessary for clairvoyance.

    Is the SAL for Locate telepathically known person still 1@1 after 6 months of practice?
    If I can calculate the target distance by triangulation by reading it from different location by altering my frame of reference to a known location, can I start the clairvoyance from the target location or is this a new skill or a new use?

    *****

    Month 14 (May):

    Can I develop a prayer to temporarily makes the conditions easier (such as making the leaves easier to handle or giving me an appropriate attribute boost and lowering other attribute that is not significant to the practice) so that I can practice intuition effectively?

    I should probably go for microscopic vision if I want to tag the mind of microscopic creature.
    I will surround my hand around the targeted area and form a well-lighted focus area (because of the light from my body).
    I will then concentrate on the center of the targeted area for 4 minutes.
    During those 4 minutes, I will picture the image of the targeted area getting bigger and bigger in my mind.
    Then I will initiate the microscopic vision to see if there are any microscopic creature within that area.
    The sample for this experiment is milk (which probably contain good bacteria) but if that is not possible then saliva or old leaf might do the trick too.

    Wed Nov 11 2009 12:41 pm #
29. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    For the moment, then, we're talking about becoming mentally familiar with the area, not about drawing a physical map.

    You can add viewing things from other frames of reference as part of your clairvoyance package. I would mention that there are some significant differences between the image you get from a bird's visual center and the image you get from clairvoyance framed to the bird's back. One difference is that the bird's perception of color will be different from yours--it sees color, but connects different frequencies to different color interpretations. (I do not know quite what the bird sees, so we will have to suffice it that since it sees light in different frequencies and it sees color, it sees different colors for the same objects. I do not know whether it renders them as red, blue, and green but for different frequencies in the spectrum or whether it sees entirely different colors, so you'll have to decide what you want to imagine for that.) The other difference is that the bird's anatomy is so designed that while its body is moving up and down its head is moving counter to it, and the image its eyes sees remains relatively stable. You do this, too, when you are walking, but it is harder to do it when you are riding a horse, and much harder to do it clairvoyantly when you don't have the cues from your body to tell you to shift you eyes.

    Your question about the skill ability level is well taken, and I have updated a number of skills and attributes behind the screens. I did not raise all of the ones I listed, for various reasons, and I will gladly explain there in answer to any questions you raise there.

    As to triangulation, if you can say that you want to start your clairvoyant vision thirty-seven miles in that direction from here, that's a valid statement within your own framework. The accuracy of the triangulation will have to be determined on a case-by-case basis, but I would note up front that knowing the location of a creature and knowing its facing are not necessarily the same thing, and thus that it would not be so easy to triangulate based on the viewpoint of a creature you can only view clairvoyantly or through its own eyes unless you can also connect it to landmarks it can see and you can locate.

    You can develop prayers that do anything you can define without using game mechanics terms (because game mechanics do not exist for your character, but are not more than a means for players to communicate about the reality in which the character lives).

    Before I roll for the microscopic vision I want to check a detail. You specify that the light from your sprite body illuminates the area on which you are focusing. Assuming you eventually return to having a human body, will this skill be rendered useless, or will there be a way to substitute the light, or is the light actually irrelevant?

    --M. J. Young

    Thu Nov 12 2009 4:31 am #
30. 

    Max
    Member

    For the moment, then, we're talking about becoming mentally familiar with the area, not about drawing a physical map.

    Yes.

    Bird's vision is interesting.
    Bird could even see ultraviolet part of the spectrum, and other adaptations allow for the detection of polarised light or magnetic fields. Birds can also detect rapid movement (more than 100 Hz) or slow movement such as movement of the sun and the constellations across the sky. (Source from wikipedia.)
    The above could probably give Morach tons of idea to develop new skills.

    The other difference is that the bird's anatomy is so designed that while its body is moving up and down its head is moving counter to it, and the image its eyes sees remains relatively stable.

    The solution for that would be making the bird's eye as the frame of reference for clairvoyant. The vision there should be stable enough.

    Thank you for the skills update.

    As to triangulation, if you can say that you want to start your clairvoyant vision thirty-seven miles in that direction from here, that's a valid statement within your own framework.

    As long as I can start my clairvoyant from another place from the information that I calculated from my other skills then it is fine.

    You specify that the light from your sprite body illuminates the area on which you are focusing. Assuming you eventually return to having a human body, will this skill be rendered useless, or will there be a way to substitute the light, or is the light actually irrelevant?

    The light here actually means any light that can light up the specimen for observation so any light with appropriate brightness will do. The hand surrounding the specimen will probably be needed so that the mind will focus on the specimen better. The 4 minutes concentration period will be needed to give time for the mind to adjust the image to intended size.

    The prayer will be started with sitting (meditative style) within the practice area with the practice leaves (or its substitute) lying around. I will reaffirm my belief that this practice will make me ready for the mission that is given to me in the future. A prayer in Morse code (with clapping and drumming) saying "HELP PRACTICE" will be done repeatedly for about 10 minutes, then the prayer will be continued (in heart by thanking the help that have been got so the practice will run smoothly) concurrently with intuition practice. The requirement of the prayer is that it is use for intuition practice, uses leaves (or other practice material that may substitute it) as a component. The place of this prayer would be limited to area designated as home.

    Thu Nov 12 2009 9:11 pm #
31. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Your first attempt at the microscopic vision fails. It felt like you should have succeeded, but it slipped out of reach.

    I will deal with the prayer tomorrow.

    --M. J. Young

    Fri Nov 13 2009 2:27 am #
32. 

    Max
    Member

    If the prayer succeeded then I will start my intuition practice during its active time.
    By the way, how much time do I need to practice intuition per day?

    I will reattempt the microscopic vision until I succeed because I felt that it would work.
    If the microscopic vision works then I will try to locate microorganism which I could communicate to telepathically.
    Would this be a new telepathy skill that could communicate with alien-like life form?

    Things to ask the microorganism if the telepathy is successful:
    1) What do you know (or the perception) about yourself or your surrounding?
    2) What do you need?
    3) What things do you find interesting?
    4) Do you have any question you would like to ask?

    I wonder where Morani keeps the hunting equipments.
    Can I see it?
    Would Morani let me play with the bow?

    *****

    Considering I have learned how to detect material and (probably learn) microscopic vision, I was thinking of developing a skill to analyze chemistry in the following month.

    Fri Nov 13 2009 10:33 am #
33. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    By the way, how much time do I need to practice intuition per day?

    This is a really tough question to answer, and since it involves game mechanics I'm going to take it behind the screens.

    I'm handing you a magic skills worksheet, and filling in some of the information and asking you to fill in the rest:

    Multiverser® Magic Skills Worksheet

    Is this arcane or holy magic, alliance, neutral, or anarch?

    Since it is a prayer to the King, it is alliance holy magic.

    What exactly will the magic do?

    You have suggested in your preliminary discussions several things it might do, but all you say in the presentation is that it will "help practice", which is rather vague. Could you please specify what it is you hope will happen from this, or is your hope rather that The King will decide how best to help you?

    What distances, sizes, areas, or quantities are involved?

    This does not apply, since it is about you using magic on yourself.

    Over what variables does the character have control?

    
    

    What, if any, is the base damage category for the magic?

    This does not apply because it is not an attack.

    How long does it take to perform the ritual necessary for the spell?

    You have indicated an initial ritual of 10:00, but that the ritual continues as prayer through the practice session. The length of the practice session is being discussed behind the screens, and so in order for me to know the length of the ritual I will have to get a better idea of that discussion.

    How many times in a minute may an amateur cast it?

    This does not apply to spells that are not instant castings.
    

    How long will the magic last?

    I believe this is tied to the length of practice time, so again we need to determine how you will be doing that.

    Exactly what will the character say?

    "Help Practice"

    Must the words be spoken loudly or forcefully?

    
    

    Are the words in a language other than the character’s native tongue?

    It is agreed that Morse Code is such a language, so yes.

    Is the sound of the words vital to the magic, or will it work if the words are properly articulated within a place where there is no sound?

    
    

    What does the character do?

    I am thinking that the tapping of Morse Code is an action, but it's also the way you speak, and so it should not count twice. How you perform the Morse Code matters and should be included, but what is more important is what you do relative to the spell (and not to the practice) besides the Morse Code.

    I also am unclear what "sitting (meditative style)" entails.

    Which body parts must be committed to this action?

    
    

    Which body parts can be substituted if necessary for the ones normally used (e.g., left hand instead of right)?

    
    

    Is the ritual physically exhausting?

    
    

    What materials are required?

    
    

    Which if any of these are destroyed or damaged beyond use during the ritual?

    
    

    Are there any other limitations on the use of this skill?

    You specify that it can only be done at home.

    --M. J. Young

    Sun Nov 15 2009 1:28 am #
34. 

    Max
    Member

    I did suggest two distinct ways to make the training harder in my previous posts.
    (I think that would be the number of leaves use for training and the knowing the relative position of a particular leaf as opposed to knowing the relative position of random leaf or only direction of a particular leaf.)
    The only problem left back then is repetition needed for it cannot be achieved because the lack of body skills.
    I wonder if tying the leaves to a pole with strings so all the leaves can be moved simultaneously would work to solve that problem.

    is your hope rather that The King will decide how best to help you?

    Yes.

    Over what variables does the character have control?

    Since you said that I need one and a half hour for the practice then the variable would be time of practice which would be 90 minutes.

    How long does it take to perform the ritual necessary for the spell?

    The total ritual time would be 10 minutes + 90 minutes = 100 minutes.

    Must the words be spoken loudly or forcefully?

    It would be weird to clap or drum quietly.

    Is the sound of the words vital to the magic, or will it work if the words are properly articulated within a place where there is no sound?

    I would be reluctant to use this skill at such a place (or call it my home). As long as the component of the spell vibrates according to the clapping and drumming then I think that the magic would work. If for example there is a noise canceler then I think the magic would be penalized because then it would just be hand signals.

    What does the character do?

    Clap and drum the Morse code while sitting cross-legged or any comfortable sitting position that is used for meditation.

    what is more important is what you do relative to the spell (and not to the practice) besides the Morse Code.

    Perhaps I will mark the practice leaves with my saliva so that it will make the magic can track the leaves better prior to the ritual. I will also flap my wings as a signal to make the moving of leaves to be easier.

    Which body parts must be committed to this action?

    Seems like the whole body to me.

    Which body parts can be substituted if necessary for the ones normally used (e.g., left hand instead of right)?

    The ritual needs the whole body but if have no wings in the future then probably I can move my back muscle just like I move the wings to substitute that act.

    Is the ritual physically exhausting?

    100 minutes of practice should be exhausting right?
    I think that depends on the other attributes but I think this practice will push intuition, agility and hand/eye coordination to the limit.
    I wonder if this could also train my stamina or willpower.

    What materials are required?

    The marked practice leaves (that can be substituted by playing cards or the like).
    The saliva to mark the leaves. (Only the user saliva.)

    Which if any of these are destroyed or damaged beyond use during the ritual?

    The saliva may dry up after the ritual is over and need to be reapplied to the leaves for next practice.

    *****

    I will reattempt the microscopic vision until I succeed because I felt that it would work.
    If the microscopic vision works then I will try to locate microorganism which I could communicate to telepathically.
    Would this be a new telepathy skill that could communicate with alien-like life form?

    Things to ask the microorganism if the telepathy is successful:
    1) What do you know (or the perception) about yourself or your surrounding?
    2) What do you need?
    3) What things do you find interesting?
    4) Do you have any question you would like to ask?

    I wonder where Morani keeps the hunting equipments.
    Can I see it?
    Would Morani let me play with the bow?

    *****

    Considering I have learned how to detect material and (probably learn) microscopic vision, I was thinking of developing a skill to analyze chemistry in the following month.

    Sun Nov 15 2009 1:51 pm #
35. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    The prayer you have designed causes the leaves on your command to leap and dance about randomly. (See details behind the screens.) This enables you to practice your intuition trick with up to fifty leaves at once.

    You succeed on achieving microscopic vision, but you do not find any microorganisms when you do so.

    --M. J. Young

    Wed Nov 18 2009 12:52 am #
36. 

    Max
    Member

    After reading behind the screens, I have to say that I am impressed of how you tackle the details that are involved in developing the prayer (a.k.a. the "beast"). Congratulations on that.
    A couple of questions related to the prayer:
    1) Is the prayer reliable enough to be done at least once daily?
    2) If the prayer fails for example, can I reattempt it after I do my other tasks until the prayer is successful on that day?
    3) Do my parents notice the effect of this prayer?
    4) If they do, then what do they think of it? (Flapping wings effect perhaps?)

    If my parents are suspicious of what I am doing, I will probably have to develop some sort of illusion or suggestion skill next. If they are not suspicious of what I am doing then I will continue my intuition practice.
    The illusion or suggestion skill would probably make the particular leaves to appear invisible to others.

    *****

    You succeed on achieving microscopic vision, but you do not find any microorganisms when you do so.

    That was weird. I wonder if I choose the wrong sample to look for microorganism.
    I wonder if a cell is considered a microorganism or not in this world.
    Are the living things in this world build from other things entirely?
    I also wonder how human or sprite can survive without the help of microorganism.
    I also wonder how does things decompose by itself.

    That raises a few questions for microscopic vision.

    The sample for this experiment is milk (which probably contain good bacteria) but if that is not possible then saliva or old leaf might do the trick too.

    1) What is the sample that was use for this attempt?
    2) What did I see with microscopic vision?
    3) Can I zoom in/out or does this skill only come with specific magnification?
    4) Can I move the ring-shaped fingers around to see other samples?

    If I happen to see any microorganism (or cell) when I change the sample (provided that I can) then I will attempt to contact it telepathically and ask the below questions:

    1) What do you know (or the perception) about yourself or your surrounding?
    2) What do you need?
    3) What things do you find interesting?
    4) Do you have any question you would like to ask?

    *****

    Considering I have learned how to detect material and microscopic vision, I was thinking of developing a skill to analyze chemistry in the following month.
    This skill probably need to focus at the object by using both hands (like detect material) and then imagining a parallel 3D space in mind which the chemical structure of the object is examined (probably in microscopic or lower scale). This skill probably needs a lot of time considering the detail that needs to be imagined so I think 30 minutes concentration with the eyes closed (to start imagining the chemical structure) after the target is acquired by focusing it using both hands.

    Wed Nov 18 2009 7:52 pm #
37. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Thanks.

    1) As a character, you would not know the probability of success of the skill. It happens that it's 95% by your present numbers, so it's only going to fail about one time in twenty. Since that's random, it might go several months without ever failing, or it might fail several times in the first month, but overall it's very reliable. Also, the chance of success is too high for you to botch.
    2) If the prayer fails, after a rest you can try again.
    3) I would think it would be noticeable. Of course, Morani is out most of the day most days, so it would not be too difficult to avoid having him observe it, but it seems likely that Lelach would notice.
    4) We might have to play this out. Since they have had wings all their lives, they probably would not think that your scattering of leaves looks quite right, but you might pull that off.

    Your previous microscopic vision success was looking at dirt, and it saw something of the mulch-like structure of decayed leaves, and some of the cellular structure of the leaf fragments still present.

    I think that zooming is possible but requires a second skill check to accomplish it. You can shift the point of focus by moving your hand and eyes, as long as light shines on the target area.

    You do not find any single-celled organisms. Apparently some things do not work the same way in this world.

    In connection with your preliminary thoughts on analyzing chemistry, let me ask the form in which you hope to get the results. To help your thoughts, it is of course possible for you to "see" the molecules themselves, nucleii and spinning electrons and connections, perhaps in slow motion, or to extrapolate them to images of those molecular diagrams; but it might be possible to see something more analogous to a spectroscopic answer, a particular color or a blending of colors or a collection of color bars. And as I say "see", it is equally possible for the chemical analysis to come in the form of sounds or musical notes or as a specific smell or taste. From a certain perspective, what matters is that you can identify the individual ingredients and how they are connected, not necessarily that you have a specific form of diagram. But it may be that you want that particular kind of visual, in which case that might be the best objective.

    --M. J. Young

    Sat Nov 21 2009 4:03 am #
38. 

    Max
    Member

    Of course, Morani is out most of the day most days, so it would not be too difficult to avoid having him observe it, but it seems likely that Lelach would notice.

    In winter, I probably have to practice when Morani is asleep.
    I really wanted to tell them the truth (about what I am doing) but I am worried that they would not accept it.

    Since they have had wings all their lives, they probably would not think that your scattering of leaves looks quite right, but you might pull that off.

    If Lelach happen to observe what I am doing, I would probably tell her that I am practicing a special technique (in which the effect would probably make flapping my wings move certain object indirectly or randomly with the help of the King). I hope she would accept my explanation (because that is what I believe as the truth unless she would rather listen to a lie) and she knows that I am "special" in some way or the other.
    I would like Lelach to explain everything to Morani if she thought the right time have come but I am worried of what Morani's action would be after that. I would probably practice my understanding and perceive purpose skill regularly to Morani to find the right time and the kind of explanation that would suit the situation the most so that he will accept it with open heart.
    An interesting conundrum:
    I would ask myself would things like this be better to be told or should I just keep it to myself.
    How would I feel if someone close to me hide this kind of secret from me and what is best way for that someone to tell me about it.

    I will proceed with my intuition practice cautiously so that both of my parents would not find out about it by practicing it when Morani is not at home (or asleep) and Lelach is busy doing something else (but not trying to hide it from her as much as from Morani). I will do this until I am sure they can accept what I am doing. If something goes wrong then I will probably go to explanation, persuasion, hypnotic suggestion or illusion plan.

    *****

    Interesting findings with the microscopic vision skill.
    I will remember the cellular structure of the leaf fragments for future reference.
    I will shift the point of focus to other samples to examine their structure at microscopic level. I wonder if I can examine the structure of my own cell to see what is producing the light for sprite.
    I will practice this skill to examine various samples that I found around me.

    I have some theories why I did not find any single-celled organisms.
    1) The single-celled organism could be smaller or invisible/transparent to normal vision.
    2) The magic/psionic replace the need for microorganism in this world. (Such a world probably have high level of magic/psionic.)
    3) Multiple-celled organism might be connected through subconscious psionic network. (If not, each cell could be contacted individually. If each cell of multiple-celled organism can be contacted individually then I will try to contact them.)
    4) A rare single-celled organism might exist in certain place of this world but it might exist in different form altogether (such as magical being).

    *****

    If I still have enough time to develop the analyze chemistry skill in the same month then I will do it in the same month, else I will do it in the following month.

    A hybrid vision that see in spectroscopic view of the object and when I chose a particular color (at specific location) it will show me the image of those molecular diagram and when I chose a particular molecule it will show me the nucleii and spinning electrons and connections, perhaps in slow motion. I probably can choose a particular electron and it will show me the quark and so on. It can be said that the vision goes from general chemistry of the object to a particular building block of the object.

    Sat Nov 21 2009 12:35 pm #
39. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    We'll worry about winter when winter returns.

    You shift your microscopic function to your own skin. There does not appear to be anything in the skin itself to explain the glow; it does not, for example, appear that there are phosphorescent particles in your protoplasm, or a luminescent oil on your skin. The light simply appears. Indeed, the skin itself is dark, as if the light originated infinitessimally above the skin; and just as oddly, the light does not appear on the skin beneath your clothes, but on the clothes themselves.

    You have no evidence of any microscopic organisms. The decay process, such as it is, appears to be driven by enzymes probably from insects and other small creatures.

    You do have time in this month to develop the analyze chemistry skill; but the description you give is at least two and possibly three skills. That is, if you see the chemistry as if it were color, looking more closely at the color will only help you focus on the precise color. On the other hand, if you see it as a molecular diagram, it is a translation to an associated image, not a "real" perception. (This is not alien to sensory perception. An analogous concept is when you "smell" pizza. Olfaction is a sense that analyzes gas and particulate chemistry, but rather than smelling the individual ingredients (as a dog does) you compile the totality into a connection to a specific object. In the same way, if you use the diagram approach, you would look at the object, and the mental analysis of the light striking your eyes would cause your brain to produce the associated diagram.) If you are looking at the molecules and their parts in motion, this would be an analyze chemistry akin to the microscopic vision you've already developed, enhanced to enable you to view what photons are not showing and to capture the image in a way that allows you to observe it as if slowing the frames. Thus these are distinct conceptions of how to analyze chemistry. You could learn all three, but they would remain discrete.

    --M. J. Young

    Sun Nov 22 2009 10:34 pm #
40. 

    Max
    Member

    The light simply appears. Indeed, the skin itself is dark, as if the light originated infinitessimally above the skin; and just as oddly, the light does not appear on the skin beneath your clothes, but on the clothes themselves.

    Very interesting. I wonder what makes the light appear that way.
    If the light can do that then either the light is created magically/psionically around the body automatically or the surrounding reacted to the sprite body aura which produced light.
    I have to remember to experiment on light creation later on.

    You have no evidence of any microscopic organisms.

    I could probably create one in the future. Lets see if I can create an experiment on abiogenesis (create microorganism from non-living things) in this world. This is much later of course. I have to remember to call it LUCA project.
    I wonder what will happen to a microorganism (if one ever created) in this world.
    "Does it grow into multiple-celled organism as fast as it can just like a zygote perhaps?", I thought to myself.
    I also wonder how blood cell looks like in this world so I will probably look at it if I got the chance to do it.

    The decay process, such as it is, appears to be driven by enzymes probably from insects and other small creatures.

    I will examine the enzymes and remember it for future reference.
    This could also be my sample for analyze chemistry.

    *****

    Then I will try to learn all three distinct way to analyze chemistry according to the order:
    1) An analyze chemistry akin to the microscopic vision I've already developed, enhanced to enable me to view what photons are not showing and to capture the image in a way that allows me to observe it as if slowing the frames.
    Do I get the microscopic vision example for this?
    I wonder if this can be used in the dark because if shows me things that photons are not showing.
    I also wonder if this approach can built enough info to translate it to the other two approach.
    I could probably calculate the temperature of an object if I can see how fast the molecule moves.

    2) An analyze chemistry with the diagram approach, where I would look at the object, and the mental analysis of the light striking your eyes would cause your brain to produce the associated diagram.
    I wonder if I can analyze what is inside the object with this skill considering I have to look at the inside of said object.
    If I have the information from the former approach I could possibly understand more about diagram.

    3) An analyze chemistry that is akin of spectroscopy would be good way to view a large object. With the info from the former approach, I could probably see the inside of an object or see an object in the dark.

    The first approach is the one that needs a long concentration time because it perceive reality at the deepest level. So I will give it about 30 minutes of concentration time with the eyes close because to perceive something that photons are not showing, visualization and intuition are the key to success. The feeling of the object come from the mental energy emitted between two hands (just like how I detect material all this time but this time the energy is more refined to analyze the chemistry).

    The second approach will be attempted after I succeed the first approach. The diagram would be easier to generate because some of the informations are filtered so that only the important information regarding the chemistry will be presented. The concentration needed for this approach will be lower so I think about 10 minutes would do the job.
    Although using eye to concentrate on the object would be good, closing eyes to visualize the diagram would probably be better because the information would come from energy emitted between both hands.

    The third approach will be attempted after I succeed the second approach. The third approach is like the second approach but the diagram will be represented in color form and this will significantly reduce the information. For example for the second approach I can recognize what the molecule is but for the third approach I would only know it as color. It would possible to know which is hydrogen and which is oxygen with the second approach but with the third approach I will have to know what each color represents first. I wonder if I have set the color according to specific variable or if this color come naturally to my mind and I have to figure it out later.
    If I have to set it then I will close my eyes and beginning to set the color to specific variable in my mind for 4 minutes. I will then open my eyes and look at the said object. I will then have to calculate what is represented by the object color.

    Mon Nov 23 2009 7:11 pm #
41. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    You manage the first easily enough, getting the molecular structure of an observed object to come into focus sufficiently that you can see the parts of the molecules clearly and in slow motion.

    We'll deal with them one at a time.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Nov 24 2009 5:02 am #
42. 

    Max
    Member

    Just to make sure, how is the sit-mod for the first approach of analyze chemistry skill calculated?
    You can answer the above question in Behind the Screens if you think it is more appropriate there.

    Questions related to the first approach of analyze chemistry:
    1) What is the sample I use for this skill?
    2) Can I see the smallest building block for any object? A quark perhaps?
    (Much lower than that maybe preon, strings or something entirely different such as magical binding?)
    3) Did I automatically recognize what the molecule is or did I have to remember the periodic table of the elements to recognize the elements in the molecule?
    4) Can I "see" the inside of targeted object?
    5) Can I move my hand to target another object with it?
    6) How long does it last for this first attempt?
    7) Can I calculate the temperature of the object from the slow motion footage of the molecules?

    Well, onto the next approach then.

    Tue Nov 24 2009 1:09 pm #
43. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Answers to numbered questions:

    1. I don't know. What do you want the sample to be?
    2. I think you would need to make another skill check to increase the "magnificantion"; the stated level was observing molecular structure, so you can see protons, electrons, and some of the smaller particles such as muons and tachyons, but not the structures of these particles themselves. That's not to say that you could not use this skill to do that, but that it would require another skill check to do so.
    3. Given this skill design, you would have to match what you see against what you know. If for example you were looking at gasoline, you would see the hydrogen and carbon atoms and their connections, but unless you were already familiar with the appearance of a gasoline molecule you would have to figure out what it was. This, incidentally, would be true of the other forms as well, only slightly less so--that is, if you saw gasoline as a color code, thereafter you would know that this liquid has that same color code, even if you don't know that it's gasoline.
    4. I'm not certain what you mean by "inside", but what you see is the molecular structure of whatever is the surface. You manage to see "between" the molecules of air in the way, which pass between you and the target periodically obscuring your view, but you can't see through the solid surface despite the fact that you are in one sense looking inside the molecules. You can see the number of protons and neutrons, with a bit of patience, although the larger the nucleus the more difficult that will be.
    5. You can shift your hand to target other objects in a continuous sweep, about six inches per second; at that rate you cannot recognize anything as it blurs until you come to rest elsewhere. You have to stay focused on an object for about a minute to see enough of it to get the full picture, but this might improve with practice.
    6. Your first attempt lasts about a quarter of an hour, by your best estimate.
    7. At this point you cannot calculate the temperature because you don't have sufficient information. You know that the movement of the molecule is slowed, but not by how much; I don't know whether you know enough about the movement velocities of subatomic particles and molecules at various temperatures. You would be able to begin creating some sense of this, by for example observing the motion of the molecules in various objects and feeling their temperatures. However, the back of my mind tells me that the molecules of different substances move at different rates at different temperatures, so this is going to be very substance-specific--for example, the velocity of the molecules in water is considerably greater than the velocity of molecules in rocks, because that higher velocity is what forces the water into liquid state. Thus 33F water will have faster-moving molecules than 100F rocks, and the movement information is not going to tell you much.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Nov 24 2009 9:02 pm #
44. 

    Max
    Member

    What do you want the sample to be?

    My own DNA (plus my parents and my animal friends if possible) from hair (or saliva/skin/blood) sample (that I keep or can look at), light particle (photon) of my own body and where it originates from and the relative speed that it travels seen through slow motion (a good reference for speed later on), cornea (of other creature such as my parents), dirt that contain decomposing enzyme, water, air, plants and other things surrounding me.

    the stated level was observing molecular structure, so you can see protons, electrons, and some of the smaller particles such as muons and tachyons, but not the structures of these particles themselves. That's not to say that you could not use this skill to do that, but that it would require another skill check to do so.

    Would doing this be considered as a new use?
    I will do the above to see the structures of these particle themselves.

    Given this skill design, you would have to match what you see against what you know.

    I have seen the periodic table for elements and standard model of elementary particle but remembering them might be something else.

    you can't see through the solid surface despite the fact that you are in one sense looking inside the molecules.

    Can I see through a solid transparent object such as a glass or cornea?
    I could bypass solid object by emitting a stronger (or more focused and refined) mental energy to penetrate the solid object deeper.
    Would the above be considered as a new use?
    I will do the above to see the inside of a solid object.

    You know that the movement of the molecule is slowed, but not by how much

    I could compare the movement speed with a photon.

    You would be able to begin creating some sense of this, by for example observing the motion of the molecules in various objects and feeling their temperatures. However, the back of my mind tells me that the molecules of different substances move at different rates at different temperatures, so this is going to be very substance-specific

    I think there is some sort of formula to calculate the thermal radiation of an object that correlate with the state of the particle but I have no knowledge of it as far as I can remember so I will try to come up with it later after collecting data from various samples.

    *****

    Well, onto the second approach. I wonder if the diagram will automatically label what the molecule is or just give me the number of each particle and how it is connected with adjacent particle.

    Wed Nov 25 2009 11:28 am #
45. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    DNA molecules are extremely complex and very similar to each other; the differences between yours and your mothers are minimal, as compared with the differences between either and other simpler substances you examine. Your father isn't around at the moment. Because of the complexity involved in the DNA molecule you have to spend a significant amount of time studying each to identify its unique features.

    Your skill allows you to examine matter, but not energy per se; you cannot target a photon that is not part of a molecule at this point. I also find it difficult to envision you keeping any creature stationary while you examine its cornea for a minute, so I'm excluding that one. You do look at the structures of several substances in the decaying leaves and in the living plants around you, and you manage to look at some of the air molecules and at the water, which contains a few elements besides the water itself.

    You manage to look deeper and see the quark structure. This requires that you stop the skill, meditate/concentrate for another half hour, and start it again, but you get a view of the fundamental structure of the elements you view. It is maintained for well over an hour, if you don't terminate it sooner. It is difficult to identify what you are viewing, though, since the space within the ring is entirely seen at quark level, which means that a single particle fills the view field much of the time and it's not easy to identify what kind of particle that is. However, you begin to be able to distinguish the four kinds of quarks.

    I think that if you are attempting to analyze the molecular structure of some material that you can neither directly see nor physically touch, this adds a remote viewing element which is not part of the skill (a sort of clairvoyant visual chemical analysis), and thus a different skill.

    --M. J. Young

    Thu Nov 26 2009 3:18 am #

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