Gaming Outpost Discussions

1. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   ClickHe laughs at your efforts to say his name, but says that it's very good, that most humans have much trouble with it.

   When you say you want to make friends with orcs, he looks at you like you've got an extra head or something. But then he shrugs and thanks you for the picture.

   When you mention the secret, his interest piques. "What secret? When will you tell me?"

   Master Robert is otherwise occupied; if he's noticed your conversation he has not indicated so.

   Click is there every day, so the next day he picks up the conversation.

   "Father says that it is very strange for humans to want to be friends with orcs, and that orcs do not have 'fun'. He says I should be careful, because you must want something that you do not want to say."

   ZekeSo, you're saying that because the orc is smarter than the horse, that makes the orc a person? But the horse is smarter than the sheep, and the dog is smarter than the horse, and all of them are smarter than the chicken, and probably the cat is smarter than all of them. So, what makes the orc a person, but not the cat, or the dog, or the horse, or the sheep--or the chicken, which is probably smarter than the fish?"

   "I can see that your people made a mistake--humans can be all different colors, and still be humans. Elves can be different from each other, and still be elves, and dwarfs are dwarfs even when--well, I don't know whether dwarfs are different from each other. But then, dwarfs, elves, and men are all different from each other, and even though we think dwarfs and elves are, well, strange, that doesn't mean they're not people. The other free peoples all worship Gaia, creator of the world. They all recognize that there is one husband for each woman, one wife for each man. They don't eat us and we don't eat them. They understand the idea that someone can own land and that the things that are on the land belong to the person who owns it. In the past, we've fought over territory, and probably over other things--but at least it was obvious that we were fighting over things. We don't eat each other. We don't kill anyone in the name of Gaia or whatever gods it is the orcs worship. Orcs are not civilized, and they haven't learned how to be civilized from being around us. Orcs that escape and go back to the jungle seem to go back to their old uncivilized ways. It is very difficult to teach them, and they go wild again so easily. They're--well, they're just obviously so different from the rest of us. They're not like civilized people."

   --M. J. Young

   Sun Feb 15 2009 11:14 pm #
2. 

   Nikolaj
   Member

   Click
   "What do you mean, you don't have fun? We were having fun yesterday, when you were laughing as I tried to say your name. What was it again? It started with 'Q' and ended on 'ach', that's about all I know still.", I said with a smile. "Wasn't that fun?"

   "But I think I understand what your father is saying, and how concerned he is", I said while working on the jacket. "Maybe you can ask him whether there is any way that I can prove my honesty to him." I said. I didn't want to use poor Click as someone to relay messages only. "Oh, and you know, about the secret. I want to tell you, but I'm not sure I can right now. And I'm not sure how to start it. But it is great news for you!", I said with a smile. "It's about my Master from home, not master Robert, but an other one. He is a very kind Master, yet also very strict. He loves His servants. He loves them so much that he made them His sons and daughters."

   Zeke
   "No, no, not intellect, but emotion, soul, spirit. Yes they have reason but they also have a sense of expression on another level.", I explained him. "And what someone believes does not make him any more or any less of a person then he is? The God I follow doesn't have the name Gaia, for example. Does that make me any less a person?"

   Mon Feb 16 2009 11:04 pm #
3. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   Zeke
   "You don't worship Gaia, creator of the earth and all things on it? I didn't know there were any civilized people who didn't worship Gaia. Or is it because you come from--" He sort of shrugs, and then nods up at the sky. "Somewhere up there. I never heard anyone say that Gaia didn't create the lights in the sky, but I never heard anyone say she did, and I never heard anyone say that anyone lived up there other than the lights themselves, but they say you think you might have come from up there."

   Click
   He laughs again at your efforts to say his name. "Qormlach," he says again. "Yes, maybe we do have--" and he breaks off. "Orcs live to serve, and to learn from our betters," he says, as if it were a code or rule he did not want to break.

   --M. J. Young

   Tue Feb 17 2009 5:27 am #
4. 

   Nikolaj
   Member

   Zeke
   I worship the creator of earth and all things on it. Yet He is a person and a Father to the weak and opressed. He cares for the orphan and the widow. His people have been refugees for a long time, yet He gives them a home. He adopts them into His own family if they want to join Him.

   Click
   "You know what ... Qormlach? I'm not sure whether I'm your better, but one of the things you can learn from me is having fun. Smiling, laughing, making best of things. Would you like that?" I was making eyecontact again as I said that, and I was smiling too.

   "Oh, and I could try to tell you little bits of the secret every day too. Would you like that?", I asked him. "And it's a very special secret, because it's meant to be told to other people. It's a secret, because the other people don't know it yet. It's like a big bag of candy that you can share with your friends.", I told him.

   Funny, I had thought he would be at least a bit surprised when I told him that I was a servant of a Master at home, and was quite curious to the response

   That evening, at the Barracks...
   Inspired by the talk I had with Zeke, I picked the 'Father God' song in my booklet to play. It was my favorite song the first years after my conversion and still has a special place in my hart. I started playing and singing, yet I had somewhat secluded myself. Not that I was alone, but so that I wasn't playing to an audience. There could be people or orcs that heard it and got curious ofcourse.

   "Father God I wonder how I managed
   to exist without the knowledge
   of Your parenthood and Your loving care
   Now I am Your son, I am adopted in Your family
   and I will never be alone
   'cause Father God You're there beside me

   I will sing Your praises
   I will sing Your praises
   I will sing Your praises
   I will sing Your praises
   for evermore

   I will sing Your praises
   I will sing Your praises
   I will sing Your praises
   I will sing Your praises
   for evermore"

   (at the bolded part I am always lost in worship, singing louder and more passionatly. I can't help myself :) I'll also flow over in the Dutch version of the song after this and possibly revert back to the English after that. The possibility exists that I lose track of my surrounding and start singing a refrain in tongues and letting the song change like that. I have no idea what I'm singing then, but generaly assume that the Spirit sings it in a better way then me.)

   ooc: Some questions about things I might observe. Do I see physical punishment of the orcs, like whipping etc? Do I notice them having an own language? Does the week have a weekend in which there isn't worked, is there a day of rest (like our sunday)? I suppose that laundry is done by a washing woman slave, but it can also be that we do it ourselves. How do we do that?

   I've had a very busy week, which is responsible for my shorter posts, just replying on what I got from you without much discribing of feelings and thoughts. My apologies for that. My life has become more busy, but I'll try to keep the quality up, even if only for myself :)

   Tue Feb 17 2009 9:02 am #
5. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   Zeke thinks you should probably talk to a priest of Gaia somewhere, because either you're confused or everyone he knows is, but maybe you know something he doesn't.

   Qormlach nods affirmatively when you ask him whether he would like those things. He asks whether the secret has something to do with your master.

   You have not seen any punishment of orcs, but there is a jail of sorts not far from the barracks. Of course, most of the orcs with whom you are working are rather sedate types, apparently given the better jobs (working in the leather shop or the house) because they are more cooperative. You do overhear some discussion one night, one of the ranch hands complaining about a particular orc who "tried to escape again", who was "punished" and put in the lock-up for the night. The hand thinks the orc should probably be sold to someone who is not so close to the jungle--"of course the difficult ones are going to run if they're close to the jungle, since they know if they can get well inside they'll probably never be caught."

   There is a day of rest, every eighth day. Worship services are held, but there is no professional clergyman here.

   The hired men do their own wash. There are servants who do the family wash, but that's really for the family. There are also some human servants working in the house, women mostly, some the wives of some of the men. There aren't a lot of children, though. They'll do wash for their husbands and sometimes for some of the other men. You're welcome to do your own, though. There are wooden troughs in the yard for that, with washboards, and you can get bricks of soap for this, and water from the pumps.

   --M. J. Young

   Wed Feb 18 2009 2:21 am #
6. 

   Nikolaj
   Member

   I smiled and told Zeke that I might do that. "Maybe I came from beyond the stars just to tell you people this wonderful message.", I told him.I looked rather pensive for a moment, and then smiled at him again. "Only time will tell, I guess." I planned to go to the next worship service.

   "Oh yes, ... Qormlach, it has to do with my Master. He is very special. Tomorrow, after work here, I will tell you a bit about him." I told him. I planned to have every day consist in a joke for Qormlach and a bit of scripture or a story related to scripture, like the 'footprints in the sand' story. If appropriate, I would also tell him parts of my own life.

   I have never washed my clothes that way, but I would ask someone how I needed to go about that and learn it as I went to wash it with others. My poor knuckles. I explain that I've never washed this way by myself before.

   That night I prayed for guidance. "... especially in dealing with the humans. How to convince them of showing love. I don't know what you think about slavery Lord, because You seemed to accept it in scripture, though, bound to some certain rules. I don't know how that is here, but I don't see orcs running around with whipmarks, so that part seems to be rather good. And then there is this entire Gaia thing. What am I supposed to think of that? If they are worshipping you, they are missing the point."

   I sighed as I heard about the lockup and my face went sour.
   If they noticed that and asked about it, I'd ask them how they would feel, if they were taken from their home, wife, kids, friends, and put in a place that was not natural for them. Wouldn't they try to escape too? "Isn't it a harsh thing to do?"

   "Oh, and Lord, how does salvation work here? This is another world, with more creatures then humans. If I think starting with Your love I'd say that you want to save them, but has there been a replacement like You have done for me and the entire human race back home? I know Your sacrifice is not bound to time, but is it bound to universes? This is all very confusing Lord. I know that You are stronger than everything and that You can work through different worlds and universes. You encompass them all. They all echoe Your Voice, which called them into being."

   • What did I sense at the worship service? Something amiss or a blessed environment or just nothing?
   • Was there any response at the song or was I just left alone?
   • Is there a reply on the prayer?

   The next day I went out to the workshop again, if it wasn't Gaia-day. When I met Qormlach I greeted him. "Hey Qormlach, what's green and goes up very fast?", I asked him, already smiling. This one might give me a headache. When he didn't know it, I sniffed very hard as an answer.

   This day I had taken my bible with me. After work I asked Qormlach if he was ready for a story. Then I realised that my bible is in Dutch. I explained that alot of the secret is in that book, but that it is written in my home language "en dat is geen Engels, maar Nederlands." I smiled, "but I will try to translate as we go."

   "My Master is a very strange Master.", I told him. "And He is also a very powerfull Master. He made the heavens and the earth. He made everything.", I gestured around, "and He made everyone." I paused for effect. "But the people didn't listen to God ... ehm, the Master, and they couldn't be with Him anymore. He had given them only one rule, 'do not eat from those trees', and they couldn't keep to it."

   "What happens when you don't listen to your masters?", I asked him. "You get some sort of punishment right? Well they were punished too. They had been living in a Paradise up untill now, but they weren't allowed to be there anymore. And they couldn't be with Him anymore. This has a dreadfull consequence. Because if you can't be with Him when your life ends, there is only a place called Hell left for you to go. It's a place without love, a place of eternal punishment."

   "But fortunately, the Master didn't want that for us. So He provided a solution. Substitutes had to be made. So there were sacrifices. But the people just made the sacrifices to erase the mistakes they made and not to want to be able to be with Him. But He wanted their love, not them not wanting to burn in hell, and not be interested otherwise."

   "So He wanted to make the ultimate sacrifice. He came down to earth, or a part of Him anyway. He was called the Son of God. He lived the way we should live. And then He died in our place, taking our punishment in our place. He went to that hellplace, but because He was pure and hadn't done anything wrong, and because He was God, they couldn't keep Him there, so He came back to life. Then, He went to be with His Father in Heaven, but He sent His Spirit to us to guide us. Through Him, we can become the sons and daughters of Him again, instead of just being the servants. But He keeps asking us to serve, because in His kingdom, the highest ones, are the servants."

   "What do you think about that?", I asked Him.

   Wed Feb 18 2009 10:00 am #
7. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   You learn to wash your clothes. It's difficult and time consuming, and it's going to take a long while before you can do it as smoothly as the women who are there periodically, but you can manage it.

   That night you awaken from a dream.

   In the dream, there was a man sitting on a beautiful chair on a dais. He was too beautiful for you to draw your eyes away, yet shone too brightly for you to gaze at.

   In the light of his face, you saw an elderly woman, dressed in peasant's clothes of subdued greens and browns, a shawl over her graying earth-brown hair. She kneels below the dais, eyes lowered. But she speaks.

   Her voice is lovely and endearing, like that of an elderly mother filled with tenderness; it is at the same time respectful.

   "Lord," she says, "why have you brought this stranger into my world? Have I not served you well enough? Have I not taught these mortal children your nature and your love?"

   "Gaia," the other says--and the voice is at the same time thunderous and gentle, expressing great power and great love--"you have served well. I created you and gave you the opportunity to create, and you created something wonderful. Your creations are like my own creations, and I would receive them as I have my own. You have always known that you would one day wean them and present them to me.

   "That day need not be today. You still have work to do. You have indeed created people who love each other and care for each other--but you have one race which has ignored you and which has been despised and rejected by the others. They cannot truly understand love until they can love even these. The outsider may be able to teach them this--teach them what you and I have both wanted them to learn. He will also plant the seeds of the knowledge of me, and perhaps he will plant them in the hearts that are farthest from me now, those who have even rejected you, their mother. I will be their father, and their brother; they will remember you as their mother, who birthed them and gave them to me."

   Her head drops lower. "May you increase, even as I decrease, loving and merciful Lord."

   The dream ends. The darkness of the barracks seems the deeper after the brilliance of the light from which you have just emerged.

   No one said anything to you about the song, although some seemed to be listening and trying to whistle or hum along while they went about their business.

   --M. J. Young

   Thu Feb 19 2009 2:40 am #
8. 

   Nikolaj
   Member

   Wow, cool! This will take some time to digest though. I'm reposting the second part of what I typed again. Day two. But I add the reaction to the dream. Sorry that it was so long.

   After the dream I woke up with a startle. "That was a confusing dream. What about not worshipping any other God then God?" Then I remembered the science fiction books of C.S. Lewis, which had ... guardians of some sort over each planet. I know that that was a bit funky and that I didn't agree. But maybe things worked differently in other universes. Though I'd think God would like to be praised all the time.

   I wrote down my dream and I went out to the workshop again, if it wasn't Gaia-day. When I met Qormlach I greeted him. "Hey Qormlach, what's green and goes up very fast?", I asked him, already smiling. This one might give me a headache. When he didn't know it, I sniffed very hard as an answer. (which is a joke, as I would be referring to a bugger. An answer isn't needed, it usually just produces sounds of disgustment or frantical laughter ... or both)

   I kept working on the jacket.

   This day I had taken my bible with me. After work I asked Qormlach if he was ready for a story. Then I realised that my bible is in Dutch. I explained that alot of the secret is in that book, but that it is written in my home language "en dat is geen Engels, maar Nederlands." I smiled, "but I will try to translate as we go."

   "My Master is a very strange Master.", I told him. "And He is also a very powerfull Master. He made the heavens and the earth. He made everything.", I gestured around, "and He made everyone." I paused for effect. "But the people didn't listen to God ... ehm, the Master, and they couldn't be with Him anymore. He had given them only one rule, 'do not eat from those trees', and they couldn't keep to it."

   "What happens when you don't listen to your masters?", I asked him. "You get some sort of punishment right? Well they were punished too. They had been living in a Paradise up untill now, but they weren't allowed to be there anymore. And they couldn't be with Him anymore. This has a dreadfull consequence. Because if you can't be with Him when your life ends, there is only a place called Hell left for you to go. It's a place without love, a place of eternal punishment."

   "But fortunately, the Master didn't want that for us. So He provided a solution. Substitutes had to be made. So there were sacrifices. But the people just made the sacrifices to erase the mistakes they made and not to want to be able to be with Him. But He wanted their love, not them not wanting to burn in hell, and not be interested otherwise."

   "So He wanted to make the ultimate sacrifice. He came down to earth, or a part of Him anyway. He was called the Son of God. He lived the way we should live. And then He died in our place, taking our punishment in our place. He went to that hellplace, but because He was pure and hadn't done anything wrong, and because He was God, they couldn't keep Him there, so He came back to life. Then, He went to be with His Father in Heaven, but He sent His Spirit to us to guide us. Through Him, we can become the sons and daughters of Him again, instead of just being the servants. But He keeps asking us to serve, because in His kingdom, the highest ones, are the servants."

   "What do you think about that?", I asked Him.

   Thu Feb 19 2009 7:25 am #
9. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   "Yours is a strange master, if he makes his slaves into his children. The master here, he has his own children. He needs his servants to help take care of his children, not his children to care for his slaves."

   --M. J. Young

   Thu Feb 19 2009 11:06 pm #
10. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    "They were his children to begin with," I say to him, smiling. "let me tell you another story from this book, to explain it to you. I search for the story of the prodigal son.

    "There once was a man, who had two sons. The boys helped on the land and worked with the father. But one of the boys had gotten fed up with that life. He went to his father and asked for his share of the inheritance right that moment. He took the money ... ehm, he took his share, and took off. He decided to go and enjoy life."

    "He spent his goods on rich foods and used it to get friends. But he got through his goods and the boy had nothing anymore. Now that his stuff were gone, his friends abandoned him and he had to beg for his food. He found a job, feeding the pigs, and not even being able to eat from their food."

    "He decided something. He said to himself, 'If I would go back to my father, and be a slave with him, my life will be better than this. There will always be food, I will have a roof over my head and I will be treated well.' So he set out to his father."

    "He didn't know however, that his father had been waiting for him every day, looking at the distance, trying to see if he was coming back. As he suddenly saw his son coming back, he dropped all he had and ran out to the boy with outspread arms. As he met the boy, he held him in his arms and wept from gladness. The son asked to be a slave, but the father said that he was still his son. He got him new clothes, new shoes, and a ring. He made a feast."

    "And thus the son, became a bum, and then a slave and then a son again. And that is also how it is with my Master. He is the Father of everyone, just as Gaia seems to be the mother here, who gave birth to the people. But my Master wants you to be His children again. He longs to be reunited with you and your people, and with the humans here, and the dwarfs and the elves and everything he has created."

    "The only difference is that you haven't seen Him yet. You never had a choice, but you have one now. Do you want to know more about Him? Do you want to get to know him?", I said while I looked him in the eyes.

    Did he react at the joke in the previous post?
    I think I have an idea as to how to fit Gaia into the picture. So I think I'm safe right now.

    Thu Feb 19 2009 11:39 pm #
11. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Yes, I'm sure that although I--well, my reaction to the joke is irrelevant, and I'm sure that by now the joke is being repeated among the orcs, but probably not among the humans.

    "Your master sounds kind. What, though, would my father say if I were to turn to a human god?"

    --M. J. Young

    Sun Feb 22 2009 1:14 am #
12. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    Lol, yeah, the joke is a bit like 'ewwww...' dirty, but it was the first one I could think of that I could translate to English

    "My God is not a God of humans alone. He created all. And he wanted all and is above any other god. This night I dreamed about Him being the lord over Gaia. She made the creatures on this earth I assume, but she couldn't have done this if God had not given her the power to do so. He wanted this. And He wanted you."

    "I do not know what gods your father believes in, but they are all less powerful and less worthy of praise. But he might not like it. As far as I know, nobody here, not even the humans, have heard of this God, except for those to who I've revealed a bit of it too. This is an unknown God, but He was always there and has loved His creation for ever and ever."

    "If your father does not like you too, maybe I can talk with him? My father didn't like it that I followed this God too," I said, "but my God goes before my father."

    I smiled at him, but with a bit of sadness in my eyes as I remembered my previous life. I sighed.
    "I'll never say that it will be easy. It takes sacrifice, not of an animal but of yourself. Your time, relations, friendships. But what you gain from it is so much more. Eternal life, full of peace, joy and life! And in this life a taste of that too."

    Sun Feb 22 2009 3:54 pm #
13. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    "I will talk with my father. Maybe he will want to talk with you; but it is not fitting for an orc to approach a human he does not work with, or to challenge the words of a human if he is not given a place to do so, so I do not know if he can come to you."

    --M. J. Young

    Mon Feb 23 2009 12:34 am #
14. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    "Then I will approach him, should he want it. Only if he wants too.", I said to him and smiled. "Alright," I said and sniffed the air, "dinner seems to be ready. Will we keep it at this today? Tomorrow is another day, and then we can talk more. And then we'll know how your father thinks about it. Tell him that I'm not trying to get him into trouble."

    When I am alone in the shop I kneel down and put my hand on the pressed floor (which I think is just pressed dirt, right?) and decided to assure Gaia that I'm not trying to hurt her.

    "Hey Gaia, I'm not sure whether I can do this, but I just wanted to say that because I don't worship means that I don't respect you. The Lord gave us the earth to take care after. And I will try my best to do that. But the earth or nature wasn't meant to be worshiped. Please understand that. I mean you no harm."

    I knew that all creation has life, so the earth and nature have life, and I supposed that Gaia was some of that life. Or was the earth itself.

    Then I went to dinner and to the barracks. Before I went to bed I prayed for Qormlach and his father and mother and his entire family. But especially for Qormlach to have a deep conversion and for his father not to be hostile and wanting to talk if needed. I also took out my paint and painted some papers. One entirely gold, one entirely black, one entirely red, one I left white and one I painted entirely green. I let them dry till morning.

    Mon Feb 23 2009 8:01 am #
15. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    It seems reasonable that at least part of the tanning/leatherworking shop would have a dirt floor, although probably part of it is wood and part (near the fires) stone. The house and barracks would have wooden floors, the smokehouse stone, the barns and stables wood, and you've never been in the orc barracks. Since it would be simple enough for you to find a different place to touch the earth, we'll just assume you do that somewhere here.

    You speak your words to Gaia. As you finish, a breeze comes from nowhere, the dirt blows around, and words appear etched in the ground: Welcome, fellow servant Nikolaj.

    Concerning your prayer, it is my intention to take your prayers quite seriously. I'd like to know specifically what you pray and how long you spend praying about each specific item. (Time is not important, of course--but it is one of the few objective measures I have of how serious you are.) Also, when you pray like this, are you lying in bed, or kneeling beside it, or taking some specific posture (sitting, standing with hands raised, something else), or will that not matter?

    Thanks.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Feb 24 2009 4:00 am #
16. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    Probably I'm kneeling besides the bed, but I could be just lying in the bed or sitting on it, probably with folded hands. The prayer would be something ranging from half an hour to an hour I think. It consists of thanksgiving and then supplication and ends in gratitude.

    btw, in the talk with Gaia it should have been "I just wanted to say that because I don't worship doesn't mean that I don't respect you. Not that it will make the answer different. I think you got what I meant.

    As Gaia wrote in the ground to me, I nodded in relief, yet I felt a bit uncomfortable, not sure if I should have done that. That was crazy supernatural. But I decided to go with it and asked God forgiveness if it had been wrong. (short prayer, a bit like Nehemiah before the King)

    The next day I took the dried colored papers and headed to work. When I saw Qormlach, I greeted him with the joke of the day. "What's bent and yellow and very funny? A bahahahahanana!" I smiled. Then I continued working on the vest. During lunch break I took the opportunity to form the differently colored papers into a little booklet by sowing them, thus making the wordless book.

    After work I met with Qormlach again and asked how his talk with his father went. I also showed him the little wordless book, and explained him the gospel entirely through it. About Jesus I explained that "where I come from (...) but what He did surpasses all boundaries and is for here too." I gave him the booklet.

    I also told him that I wondered if there was something of an orc language. If there was one I asked him how the word friend was said.

    Tue Feb 24 2009 7:30 am #
17. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    For some reason, I cannot edit that post in such a way that the link http://berean.org/bibleteacher/wb.html connects to the text.

    I'll try again.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Feb 24 2009 11:26 pm #
18. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    There is an orc language. Qormlach does not speak it. Orcs taken from the jungle usually speak it, but they are not supposed to speak it here or teach it to others. His father was raised on a ranch like this one, and so does not speak Orcish.

    "My father says I should be careful not to offend you, and should listen to what you say, but that human gods are for humans, not for orcs."

    He finds your story interesting, and thanks you for the papers.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Feb 24 2009 11:45 pm #
19. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    "Oh, it's hard to offend me, really. So, your father thinks that you shouldn't worship my God, but what do you think? Do you think he is a God for humans alone, or also for orcs and elves and dwarves? He created all of them.", I told him.

    ooc: As I contacted Gaia before, did I have a specific feeling of discernment with it or not?

    Wed Feb 25 2009 7:53 am #
20. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    You had no feeling either way.

    "That is confusing. The humans say that Gaia gave all things on the earth. Father says no one really knows who made everything. His father spoke of gods worshipped by the orcs, who made one tribe or another, who made one kind of animal or another. He doesn't think that anyone made everything. That is too big a job. And besides, why would the same one make the defenseless sheep to eat the grass and the ravenous wolf to eat the sheep?"

    --M. J. Young

    Thu Feb 26 2009 8:43 am #
21. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    "My God says that ... wait, I'll translate while I read.", I tell him and start to translate my Dutch bible into English while reading the two first chapters of Genesis. "Where I come from there are only humans. Before I came here I had never even seen an orc.", I told him, "But I'm sure that God has made everything here too and that at some point, someone let evil in and things changed. Before what we call the fall, where the humans disobeyed God for the first time, all animals ate grass and the herbs of the field. Only after that one started hunting after another. And when God comes again, and the peace will return, the wolf will lie next to the lamb, and the baby will play with the viper, and there will be no grief."

    I wait for a bit and look at him, and then I smile. "There is a way for you to know for sure. You can ask God to show more of him to you if He is real. But the thing is that He can show you in lots of ways. You need to really expect it."

    "Maybe we can ask together?" I asked him.

    Thu Feb 26 2009 9:01 am #
22. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    "So, your god made everything good, but it broke? But he's going to fix it?"

    He agrees to pray with you, although he is a bit nervous about talking to a god. "Father says that shamans talk to the gods, because they know how. He says the humans have their priests, which is just another word for shamans. I don't know how to talk to a god."

    --M. J. Young

    Fri Feb 27 2009 1:30 am #
23. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    I smiled in surprise at the simple summary he made. "Yeah, that's about it.", I wanted to go deeper in on it but that's not what the boy needed, it would only be more confusing to say some parts are and some aren't fixed already. Besides, it's quite mystical, the working of the cross and the kingdom in our lives even today. I'm not sure if I can put it to words. While we do have evil still, the victory is already there, sometimes visible. But if he converts, we'll have plenty of time to go into that. Now was a time to pray.

    I told him the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector at the temple. How the pharisee used big words to pray and the tax collector just poured his hart out to God, with all his faults and weaknesses and with real tears and everything. And how God was pleased with the tax collector and not at all with the pharisee.

    If you speak with God, just be sure that you pray from your hart. That what you say is real. "It's a bit like talking to me, but then the difference is that He knows your hart, and you can't see Him. But sometimes you can feel Him.", I told him.

    "I'll start, and then, after that, you can pray out loud.", I told him. "I got down on my knees. "This is not a requirement, but I like to kneel when I pray.", I told him. "Do you mind if I put my hand on your shoulder when I pray?", I asked him.

    If he objects I wont lay my hand on him.

    Then I closed my eyes and started and breathed out through my nose. I relaxed. "Dear Lord," I started, "I've got my friend Qormlach here besides me. Before I spoke of You he had never heard of You. And now I've told Him about You Lord, a strange God and a kind God. A Servant and a King and a Father. All very confusing to Qormlach, I can guess."

    "His people have different gods and even the other humans here never heard of You. But He's willing to take the chance and get to know You. Please reveal Yourself to him. Like You revealed Yourself to Abraham and to Isac and to Jacob. So that You can be his God too.
    Let Him see that You are real, God, please. Thank you..."

    I then waited for Qormlach to drop in. I tried to expect God to move as best as I could. I tried to be as expectant as I could.

    Fri Feb 27 2009 8:11 am #
24. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    "Nikolaj's God, I do not even know your name, but if what Nikolaj says is true then you know mine, and you want me to know you, too. Show me if it is true."

    --M. J. Young

    Sat Feb 28 2009 12:38 am #
25. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    As Qormlach prayed, I silently whispered along, praying in tongues. After waiting for a wile and stretching out my feelings to the Lord, if He didn't give instructions or visibly worked with His Spirit in Qormlach's heart, I said "Amen!". Then I looked at Qormlach and told Him, "that's how we end a prayer."

    Depending on how the prayer works out, I will react with one of the following.
    1. Clear success: Rejoice! Start talking about redemption. Repenting of sin, accepting the grace. I'll use the wordless book again for that.
    2. Nothing happened: "Expect the Lord to work one of these days. He might reveal Himself to you in many ways." I would pray for revelation for Qormlach that evening before going to bed.
    3. Reverse effect: Start telling about satan and how he tries to lure us away from Christ.

    Sat Feb 28 2009 1:12 am #
26. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    Nothing happens. Your own prayers seem hindered, as if you are being opposed.

    --M. J. Young

    Mon Mar 2 2009 3:11 am #
27. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    That makes for option 2. But due to the opposition I'm going to combine it with option three.

    Nothing happened: "Expect the Lord to work one of these days. He might reveal Himself to you in many ways." I would pray for revelation for Qormlach that evening before going to bed.

    Reverse effect: Start telling about satan and how he tries to lure us away from Christ.

    "Also Qormlach, it seems as if something is working against us. One of the great servants of God once thought that he could be better then God. For this he got punished and cast out of God's kingdom. He always wants revenge, also by letting people not believe in God. He, or one of his minions, is trying to work against us. So keep praying and keep expecting. I'm quite confident that God will reveal Himself to you.", I told him.

    That evening I prayed to the Lord for protection of what is opposing me and through prayer tried to reveal my enemy. (I've got some experience with that, through vision, in symbolics). I've read and heard stories of it being witchdoctors sometimes, when I hear from evangelists from Africa.

    Mon Mar 2 2009 12:59 pm #
28. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    That evening I prayed to the Lord for protection of what is opposing me and through prayer tried to reveal my enemy. (I've got some experience with that, through vision, in symbolics).

    Please clarify a few points for me.

    • The first part is for "protection". That would suggest to me that you are under attack, or anticipate being under attack, but to this point the situation is rather that your "attacks" (by prayer) have been opposed. It might be that you are using the word "protection" in a way that I am not grasping, or it might be that you are looking for preemptive protection, getting protection in place in anticipation of a possible attack. Which do you have in mind?
    • The second seems to be an application of your 1@2 Dreams and Visions M7@6 usually as guidance or answers to prayers, that God answers you with information (much as we saw with the revelation of the place Gaia holds). You mention that it might be a mortal enemy that is opposing you; obviously there is a spirit enemy (our "Prince of Persia" as opposed Daniel's angel). It is possible that the spirit enemy was sent by a mortal enemy, or by a higher spirit enemy; it is possible that the spirit enemy is independent. What do you expect your vision to reveal in these cases?
    • Is this one prayer to do two things, or two prayers prayed in sequence? The primary difference is that with one prayer, all results stand or fall together, while with two prayers either could be answered. Also, if you use discrete prayers for each request, you can use them separately in the future, whereas if you combine them, doing them separately would be different "skills".
    • How long are you praying, and if they're separate, how long for each?
    • I'm assuming that previous comments about position apply here.

    That's all I can think of for now.

    --M. J. Young

    Tue Mar 3 2009 1:26 am #
29. 

    Nikolaj
    Member

    Since the prayer didn't 'work', and you described that they seemed hindered, as being opposed, my character assumes there is an enemy opposing us. Therefore he prays for protection against that possible enemy. To my character, the thought that he is on the offense never really comes up. He rather feels that his freedom is being infringed upon.

    Qormlach was showing promise and then nothing happens, followed by the sense of opposition. That makes him think that the enemy has 'found out' and is sending out his troops to sabotage this attempt of mine, thus I pray for protection, anticipating an attack, while thinking I'm already in the battle.

    In my experience the revealing of the enemy is almost always a bonus to another prayer. Once I prayed for a deeper understanding of a prophecy I had spoken out over someone in our church and relived the vision, but that time also seeing a threat and an enemy, then I prayed for a a deeper revelation of that enemy.

    Another time we were praying for our government and suddenly an occult sign pops into my head and I immediately know/sense that certain people (who I do not know) are bound (the sign was a pentagram with a chain that was at the same time in and out of the center of the pentagram. Very strange, as if I could go deeper into the sign or that it did not let itself be set to two dimensions. Then throughout the week, through continued prayer and searching I slowly found out more about it.

    You can treat it as a separate prayer, the identification, but it is usually in response to what I have seen or sensed before. (I've had more experience then the above two, almost always with vision and sometimes got assaulted in my dreams, when I then prayed for protection the next day before going to bed, the assault was finished.)

    I expect a visualization of the enemy in visions while I pray. Or slow revelation throughout the coming days. I don't expect to see a clear face of someone, although I have had that once. But I rather expect a symbolic representation.

    As to what kind of an enemy I expect, I expect a spirit being such as the prince of Persia or I expect a witchdoctor or a group of them. Or something along those lines. I've heard of people praying and suddenly before them in smoke or water or something a figure appeared and told them to stop bringing the gospel or the witchdoctors would destroy them.

    The prayers are at least 15 minutes, though I might press on to an hour. I generally go until I get some result. Eyes closed, kneeling is optional, but usually I do although I might as well just sit on a chair or a bed with my hands folded instead of kneeling.

    Tue Mar 3 2009 7:46 am #
30. 

    M. J. Young
    Moderator

    You feel the assurance that you are loved and protected.

    As you pray for the knowledge, a vision starts to form; but it is abruptly snatched away by a black and red hand which grabs the fuzzy image and pulls it away from you.

    You know that God is trying to send you the information, but you find yourself falling asleep.

    As your consciousness is fading, you hear a voice. It startles you to wakefulness for a moment, but no one is speaking. The voice said, "Its name is Sarne."

    You awaken in the middle of the night from a disturbing dream, in which you had a passing image, more focused than the one from the disrupted vision but also more fleeting. The being is similar to an orc, but with attributes of a warlike demon, blood dripping from teeth and nails. It scowls at you and vanishes.

    --M. J. Young

    Wed Mar 4 2009 12:08 am #

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