I admit, this is the first role-playing game I've ever really played, but I'm wondering about something. Is it standard for all role-playing games for the players to not read the rules of the game first? Is there perhaps a sheet of rules that the players SHOULD read? The reason I am asking is because there have been several times where I got into trouble for things that I don't know, that my character would know. Things such as the nature of psionics, the nature of versing, the way things happen when A turns into B, etc. Things that my character would know, that I don't, that have gotten me into trouble. This is why I ask a lot of questions about the rules of the game. My character would know most of the things I ask, but I don't. Perhaps a list of "Player's Rules" should be incorporated into future printings of the Referee's Rules. Things that the character would know, that the player might not. I know a lot of you out there are sick and tired of hearing me complain about different things, but the catch is that if I knew what my character knows, I would have a lot less to complain about. If I knew what my character knows, I wouldn't have done a lot of the stupid things I've done, that I complain about doing. Is there a set of rules that the players need to read, so they know what their characters know? If so, is it online, and can someone tell me where to go to look for it?
Player's Rules
(7 posts) (5 voices)-
david3565
MemberMV is rules light for the player, but rules heavy for the GM. What you need to know how your character sheet works, how skill levels work, how bias curves work, and the sequence of combat. And in MV, your character is going to start off knowing exactly what you know, which is to say, nothing. If "you" are thrown into the verse by a freak accident, then you couldn't know about psionics, magic, uber-advanced tech, or freakish skills of the body. If the GM is good, then their descriptions should suggest was is or isn't possible. If the world design is done well, then it should have an overall atmosphere pointing to what is and isn't possible, unless subterfuge is part of its design.
Sun Oct 14 2007 7:45 am # -
Graham
MemberMeh, I think player rules are fairly unnessecary. I read Behind the Screens once, and it made things worse for me. I think as long as you restrict yourself to your own game thread and don't go poking around the referees' stuff, the game will be much more enjoyable.
Sun Oct 14 2007 2:01 pm # -
To answer the first question, it's actually not at all uncommon for game companies to publish player's editions of their rules, and in fact when we published our referee's rules we mentioned that we might publish a player's edition eventually.
We never did, and for exactly the reasons David gives: there really is nothing a player would know that he needs to be told that a referee won't tell him.
You wrote,
I got into trouble for things that I don't know, that my character would know. Things such as the nature of psionics, the nature of versing, the way things happen when A turns into B, etc. Things that my character would know, that I don't, that have gotten me into trouble.
I don't see that, really.You did get yourself in trouble, sort of, by trying to push "practice" with psionics into getting results, so you could use the psionics without risking a botch. That's not because you didn't know the rules, but because you did know some of them. You would have gathered (and did gather) early in play that whenever you attempted to use psionics to accomplish something, there was a die roll to determine success or failure, and there was a chance that you might botch. That would have alerted you to the fact that any use of psionics might result in a botch.
The thing you learned was that there was a sort of effort-saving rule, that if you were "practicing" a skill the referee wasn't going to roll a thousand times for you to practice. You didn't learn all the reasons for that. Part of it is that in a practice situation you're not under pressure--if you're jumping off the top of a truck to practice landing, you take your time and do it right; if you're jumping from the second story window of a burning building, you're hoping for the best. Part of it is to save time in running the game. I say in general that if you're practicing a skill I'm not going to roll for botches--but I have rolled general effects rolls for people practicing in times and places and ways that I thought might be dangerous, because even if you don't botch you still might have something unexpected occur.
No verser understand the nature of versing except by experience. I think you knew that versing meant you died and awoke somewhere else. Eventually you would discover that it doesn't necessarily mean all of that--you might die and still be conscious during the transition--but you haven't learned that yet. You learned right away that you could take "stuff" with you, but then you discovered that you couldn't necessarily take it all. You're still learning what it is to be a verser. I think the Architect is still learning that, too.
Most games that publish separate player's books do so because the player is playing a character or creature from another world--a knight, a wizard, an elf, a space pirate, an alien, a robot--and needs information about who he is. In Multiverser, you're playing yourself. If you don't already know who you are, the book can't help you.
Now, the forum medium does create communication problems. Let me encourage you to ask better in-game questions: utilize your senses, ask what you see, hear, feel, smell, taste, what the ambient temperature is, the humidity, the background noise, the movement of the air, the color of the sky and the plants and whatever else you can think to ask. Ask how badly hurt you are, or whether you're bleeding, or whatever you think you need to know. The referee has to answer questions that your character could determine by observation. Sometimes you'll have to specify that you are going to look at something, or break something (I'm going to break this blade of grass and smell it; does it smell like onion, or something else with which I'm familiar?) or move something, or go somewhere, or take action to find out what you want. When I answer a question with, "How would you know," that's not a refusal to answer--that's an effort to make you consider whether this is something you would be able to tell using your skills and senses. If you give me a good answer, you'll get what you can know.
Of course, if you can tell me what you think a player should be told up front that his character would know and he would not, I'd love to be able to produce and market a player's handbook. It's more products for the company to sell.
--M. J. Young
Mon Oct 15 2007 1:30 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberI do have an idea MJ. A story book. A player's guide, made like a story book. The character could do common things, and have things explained to him. For instance. "John used TK pulse a lot in his last world. Sometimes he could use it for weeks without botching. (practice mode) As he used it to annoy the driver of the jeep, he would soon learn a dangerous lesson." (rolling) Have footnotes in the book for how and why this happened. Or perhaps he tells his story to The Architect later on in the book, and The Architect explains what happened. Have different biases explained, in much the same way. Maybe at the end, the guy playing the role playing game learns how to treat his GM with proper respect? We are kind of writing the story right now, if you think about it.
Mon Oct 15 2007 6:11 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberI got it. He runs into The Architect (maybe in his 3rd world?????) and tells him the story, Forrest Gump style. The Architect then explains things, in a perspective that the player reading it would understand. Perhaps I could even write the final chapter of it, and tell the inspiration of it? Just a thought.
When John tells the story of the jeep crash, The Architect's reply is: "Yes, that happens. When you're practicing, it's ideal conditions, so botching is very unlikely. But when you're using it constructively, which I like to call 'Rolling the Dice.' it becomes more dangerous to use. That's true of all of the biased skills you do."
Mon Oct 15 2007 6:19 am # -
Tadeusz
MemberJohn,
I wrote World A Week: The Original and WAW: Redux as something along the lines of what you're talking about. It was meant to give the player or GM who read it the understanding of what is possible, and what to do with those possibilities. It made it interesting because every week, I tried to do something different to serve as a new example.
MJ,
I'm familar with seeing players toting around books like Kingdom of Kalamar for d20. Now, you could make your very logical arguement against them doing that. After all, most everything they need would be given to them by the GM.
Now, it could be argued that they would know something of their own world, but frequently for 1st level characters, thats not true.
Clearly you don't want to give away certain secrets, and in fact if a player in Paranoia quotes a rule from the Ultraviolet classified (referee's section of the rulebook) he's instantly killed because he doesn't have Ultraviolet classification.
What I don't see...too much...is players toting Adventure Modules.
But they do tote settings. And selling those settings to them is beneficial to everyone--player who enjoys reading it and hoping he can find someone to run it, GM who doesn't have to pay for setting, and game company which made another sale.
After all, in a certain really silly light, your novels could be regarded as giving away game secrets.
So create settings...probably settings that tend toward being Gather worlds without specific adventures in them, or with one or two short adventures in teh back of the book. Do a Kingdom of Kalamar setting book or something like it (Starsong Systems!! :) ).
One advantage in this creating books for the players to read would be that MV has some really wild ideas behind it which are far stranger than Yet Another D20 Setting.
Wed Oct 17 2007 3:12 pm #
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