Heya, we all know the limitations of Scriff Mail, is a relatively same biological structure? If a divergent who had enough knowledge about scriff or the magical ability to direct scriff, send mail to other divergent? It just so happens that the one who knows there is likely at least one divergent of himself, also has that ability. Just wanted some incite on a subject that is rarely brought up.
Sciff Mail, and divergents
(63 posts) (9 voices)-
I would say... scriff mail does not allow you to use your character in one game to send something to your character in a different gm's game. Talk to a different gm and you may get a different answer. edit: You can't send something to yourself in the scriff mail; just the idea of sending yourself a piece of equipment in the past destroys my mind. Also, it's worth mentioning that due to the way the verse works, you may later meet Rapp Torre for the second time, and have him meet you for the first time, at which point you might slight him in such fashion that he desires vengeance; thus it would not be a divergent he is confusing you with, but your actual future self. second edit: whoops, I just said "you can't". Sure, let's have a temporal anomaly causing an infinity loop or a sawtooth snap encompassing multiple universes, why not? :P
Fri Oct 1 2010 12:58 am # -
Tadeusz
MemberIt'd probably be easier than a multi-player gather. I might try a two mission set up where the Strong has a siege mission which is slow, and the Weaker has a quest mission to retrieve something the Strong needs when he gets to the final confrontation with the Big Bad.
Fri Oct 1 2010 2:29 am # -
Oh, I agree completely that it would be easier to run than a multiplayer gather, by far; it takes out the issue of needing to wait for all the responses from all the players, because instead of having two players with individual characters you have one player with two characters. This means that there isn't anything forcing you to keep them seperate; but, having one Jhiaxus is bad enough, two Jhiaxi and nothing will stand a chance. Point taken ;P
Fri Oct 1 2010 2:43 am # -
If a divergent who had enough knowledge about scriff or the magical ability to direct scriff, send mail to other divergent? It just so happens that the one who knows there is likely at least one divergent of himself, also has that ability.
The rule on scriff mail specifies that the persons must be related and must have been together in the same universe; further, the longer it has been since they were in the same universe, the lower the probability that they can successfully send something.
It is also seriously problematic to attempt to send something to your divergent self who happens to be a verser. In essence, when I sent something to Ryan, it came down to me specifically disowning it and specifically stating that it was the property of a specific other person, by name. There is a sense in which the divergent is not a different person, and if I, Mark Young the Architect, tried to send something to me, Mark Young the Wizard, I wouldn't be disowning it.
But the primary problem is that the scriff mail requires that the persons have been together in the same universe at some point, and not many universes ago for either of them.
--M. J. Young
Fri Oct 1 2010 5:23 am # -
I think I know how I would do that. I would have both referees in collusion on it; they would need a way to communicate off the board. They would each bring their version of Adam into a world that was ordinary enough that he wouldn't necessarily know that it was the same world. They would bring them into different places within that world, where each of his characters would get the very reasonable sounding party-line view of the situation.
- E.g., we're on a planet where there's a small humanoid settlement from elsewhere, probably refugees or pilgrims looking to escape persecution by creating their own place to live. They've been there for a generation, they've got highly advanced technology, and their spreading out a bit because after all you can't run such a place without agriculture, and that means land. One Adam arrives in the compound, under the guidance of one referee, and learns that the uncivilized sub-human creatures who populate the planet have been raiding them, and have killed several of their people.
The "uncivilized sub-humans" are also humanoid, maybe more human than the technologically advanced group, but living in a stone aged technology as a hunter-gatherer society. They see the colony as alien invaders taking more and more of the land that ought by rights to belong to everyone. They've let it go too long, and are fighting back now. The other Adam arrives in a tribal camp and gets the party line from them from the other referee.
As the game progresses, each referee gets his player's moves from the player and feeds them to the other referee, who restates them in his game as they would appear to his non-player characters, delivering the information to his player, getting his player's response, and feeding it back to the first referee. For a while, at least, the player will think he's playing two games, when he's actually playing against himself in one.
I'm sure eventually he'll guess, but at that point he'll probably be entrenched enough in both positions that he'll be happy to continue playing against himself to see how it comes out--like playing both sides of a chess game, but with more variables because of the different abilities of his NPC support.
--M. J. Young
Sat Oct 2 2010 1:41 am # -
Jhiaxus
MemberIt's different because each Jhiaxus is different, uses different abilities, different spells, and plays to his strengths. It's the sum of experiences that makes the person, and each one has different ones. They have certain things that are common to all, and certain things that are unique. It's actually kinda hard to remember each one's motivations, abilities and thought patterns.
Sat Oct 2 2010 3:19 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberJust wanted some incite on a subject that is rarely brought up.
Hey Adam, to be clear up front, I am asking in genuine curiosity. Have you ever been diagnosed with any kind of learning disability? It doesn't mean you're stupid. I was in the LD class, and I have nearly a genius level IQ. You seem to have a problem with homophones. This should be "Insight". To "Incite" means to start up or to inflame (Incite rebellion). Again, asking in genuine curiosity.
(Doing Therapy)
Sat Oct 2 2010 6:50 am # -
Brock
MemberHey, John, did you know that someone can be extremely intelligent and capable in many areas and be a genius, and still have a drawback? Sheesh. So the man has some writing problems, so what? We all understand him, and you have been asked not to incite people over trivial spelling/grammar when they have made it clear it is unwanted.
EDIT: I was going to say "Incite people over your insight into the spelling of various words, including incite and insight", but I thought it would be too horrible. Then I realized it still might get some laughs, so I put this in.
Sat Oct 2 2010 9:05 am # -
We won't have to worry about homophones too much longer anyway, what with all the homos that have been killing themselves -- in poor taste, right? When I play chess against another person, I usually know three or four moves in advance (in several lateral directions - "he could move this or this or this, or this or this then this, etc"); my understanding is that most people are not quite so good as that. When I play against myself, neither side is at a serious advantage, because I know basically what I will do as well as what my opponent will do fairly well; the fact is, there's a clear set of rules in chess, and there are only so many options. With the multiverse, there is far more freedom of action; instead of capturing the black queen, I will pretend to be a foreign courtesan, come to form an alliance with her people; I will then assassinate the black king from behind enemy lines. Of course, if I'm playing by myself, I can railroad whatever I want to have happen, and there won't be any suprises; I'll essentially be writing a story by myself, using dice to determine to an extent what happens as a result of my choices. If I'm playing with someone else, I also get the benefit of social interaction. As for the other... subject... on this board, John, I was born with the eye of an editor. I frequently scored 100 or better in my English courses through high school and elementary school as a final average. Your grammar and spelling are not perfect. Why don't you take the log out of your own eye before you try to help Adam get the speck out of his?
Sat Oct 2 2010 11:07 am # -
Jhiaxus
MemberI take full responsibility for the your and you are things I do all the time. The incite and insight are due to firefox's spelling correction and sometimes not putting up the right word in the list to choose, and me too lazy to spell it another way or look it up to make sure it is correct. As for learning problems, I have been diagnosed with ADD, I haven't and don't take anything for it, I just deal with it. As for IQ, I have taken many tests over the year, and for my current job it was a requirement. They wouldn't tell me the score, but it was mentioned that it was one of the highest they have had at the company. We are the world leader in manufacturing and fabricating pipe valve and assemblies, so we employ about 1k engineers, so I don't feel the need to defend the 2@1 Intelligence in game, or put scores up in real life. It's just tacky.
Sat Oct 2 2010 1:13 pm # -
Tadeusz
MemberIts one of the traits of the current ruling class to put a very high value on verbal and writing skills, in the 'right' way, as evidence of intelligence. So John Kerry with 122 is smarter than W with 127 IQ. This is one of several factors which creates the Moron Liberal PHD Syndrome in modern fiction as a backlash.
The smartest guy I know by IQ has relatively poor writing skills, and poor reading skills (dyslexia). This is the superbrilliant J. The second smartest guy I know has well above average writing skills and superlative reading skills. This is MJ.
Umm, let me clarify. J. is not Jhiaxus. J. is my longtime friend who is a little paranoid about being named on the Net so he lets me use his initial.
Sat Oct 2 2010 4:56 pm # -
JohnA1nut
MemberThis is a prime example of what I mean when I say that the communication errors are not entirely my fault. I said twice that I was asking in genuine curiosity, and that I myself was in the Learning Disabled classes. I'd say it was fairly obvious that I was trying very hard NOT to be insulting. Yet, people still accused me of insulting Adam. Adam didn't seem insulted by it, why did other people? I think some people just see insult where none was meant, and there's nothing you can do about that.
(Doing Therapy)
Sat Oct 2 2010 7:06 pm # -
I saw what you meant John, but hadn't I known you, I would have been shocked by it regardless. In a personal correspondence this might be possible between friends, but on a public forum it's like shouting the question to the guy in the middle of the street. The person in question might not care, but it's generally bad manners.
Most people don't want to tell the world whether or not they have a disability. Some things are personal and some are public. You are a very open person, sharing about your condition willingly. Not everyone is that open, so it's best to avoid this next time.
It takes a while to get used to online fora, but I'm seeing you improving, even if it is slowly. And I'm only saying this here because you freely say such things about others. I can assume you don't mind.
Sat Oct 2 2010 8:48 pm # -
I'd say it was fairly obvious that I was trying very hard NOT to be insulting. Yet, people still accused me of insulting Adam. Adam didn't seem insulted by it, why did other people?
I'd say "track record". It has the feeling of "here, let me see if I can find another way to rip this scab off again without looking like I meant it."
I am pleased to see that Adam took it well, and indeed took a step toward mending fences in regard to the previous problem. I have mentioned before that i frequently cringe when I hit such errors in posts--but that I find them even in my own posts at times, because I don't proofread. I certainly accept that there are some words that stymie some people--I always freeze when I'm about to type "effect" or "affect" and run the mnemonic through my head for it, I have rarely confused "then" and "than" even though it really irks me when others do so, and I've sometimes found that I typed the wrong one of two homophones in other cases simply because I was moving too fast to realize what I was typing (and I got all the two's right that time). I also have noticed when I proofread that I'll drop the last letter off "then" or "they", which of course the spell checker will see as "the" and ignore.
My point I think is that no one is perfect, and if you're not you should watch your criticisms of others. Maybe the one without sin can cast the first stone, but that one seemed to have missed the stoning party.
*****
Eric keeps saying that this guy J. is smarter than I am. I'm starting to get a complex. I really feel like pulling up my Bragging Rights (although it doesn't happen to mention that the 48 out of 48 on the L.S.A.T. meant that I was in the top one fifth of one percent of those who had managed to get through college and thought themselves smart enough to go to law school, which puts me in at least the 99.8th percentile of a group that is already above average).
O.K., maybe J. is smarter than me--some people are, but I've met only a few I thought might be. Or maybe Eric just doesn't know me all that well--we've never met in person or conversed on the phone or had long personal correspondence, and honestly I didn't know I was smart for a very long time, so it might not be that obvious. (There was one person in my high school that figured out that I was the guy with the highest SAT scores in the school. It surprised me more than it did him, but I figured I was good at taking tests.)
I remember one day in the early '70s I was standing with my brother Roy and our good friend David, and I suddenly said to them, "One of you two is the smartest person I know." David said that was very interesting that I would say that, because he had just been thinking that one of us was the smartest person he knew. Roy agreed that he'd had a similar thought; but then he later appended that he'd reached the conclusion that if we both thought he was one of the smartest people we knew, we weren't as smart as he thought we were.
Incidentally, last I heard Roy was working on a doctorate in philosophy and David in theology, so they're both pretty smart.
--M. J. Young
Sat Oct 2 2010 9:30 pm # -
JohnA1nut
MemberMy point I think is that no one is perfect, and if you're not you should watch your criticisms of others. Maybe the one without sin can cast the first stone, but that one seemed to have missed the stoning party.
I read about a king who was about to be executed. He said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He was promptly struck on the head with a meteorite. Probably not a true story, but interesting nonetheless.
I just think the English language is fascinating. I used to date an English teacher, and I'm always trying to improve.
(Dextroland)
Sat Oct 2 2010 10:03 pm # -
JohnA1nut
MemberTwo
I'd say "track record". It has the feeling of "here, let me see if I can find another way to rip this scab off again without looking like I meant it."
Yeah MJ it does kind of. The thing is, people change. I'm a completely different person from who I was even a year ago. Getting better. "It's in the past, learn from it, and let it go." It's my mantra to kill psychotic episodes. Perhaps others should adopt the same.
(Dextroland)
Sat Oct 2 2010 10:31 pm # -
Tadeusz
Member187 IQ and at least a Master's in Nuclear Physics. MJ, its completely obvious to me that you're brilliant. You could give me 25 of your IQ points and still beat me. Another guy that falls into this category is Stephen Den Beste. My general advice to everyone is to read USS Clueless blog if you A)Desire to be humiliated at intelligence AND B)Desire to learn a lot in a very entertaining way. Unfortunately, he doesn't do it any longer as he had medical issues and he got tired of dealing with people.
My brother is pretty smart. He's got two doctorates in Bible, and he quit on his way to a third. Not as smart as J. tho'.
A lot of the people I know are brighter than me. I like it that way. Given a choice between a friend who's dumber or a friend who's smarter, I'd pick having the smarter friend. I think Andrew Carnegie had a good point about wanting to have on his tombstone that he had been surrounded by men smarter than himself. It takes someone who's got a good attitude about ego to do that, but its fun and wise. And since Carnegie ended up with something like 100 million bucks or more, I think its a good thing to keep in mind. You want people around yourself who can do things you can't.
One of my stories on that topic....I'm playing Multiverser at a con, at the table are a MBA lawyer, a genuine rocket scientist, and a nuclear physicist....I'm running the game as a wannabee SF writer and the dumbest guy at the table.
Its possible that J. isn't smarter, but I'll stick with my story. :)
Sat Oct 2 2010 10:34 pm # -
JohnA1nut
MemberOne of my stories on that topic....I'm playing Multiverser at a con, at the table are a MBA lawyer, a genuine rocket scientist, and a nuclear physicist....I'm running the game as a wannabee SF writer and the dumbest guy at the table.
Eric, you're confusing education with intellect. Education means nothing to how intelligent you are. Take the four of you, drop all of you onto a tropical island. Who lives the longest? That's intellect. Their educations wouldn't do them a lick of good there. You're a smart guy, I bet you would last quite a while.
Education is knowing how a dog's body processes food, absorbs energy, and produces waste material.
Intelligence is knowing not to step in dog poop.You were certainly the least educated guy at the table, but I'd be quite surprised if you were actually the dumbest guy at the table.
(Dextroland)
Sat Oct 2 2010 11:26 pm # -
Brock
MemberIntelligence helps in the accruing of education, though. Don't forget that part.
Anyway, the reason people took your statement as rude is because that is not a question you just out and ask someone. It's the kind of thing a particularly sensitive individual might hit you for, especially when asked in front of an audience. The insult is more that you THOUGHT of it in the first place, really. It shows a lack of respect for the person involved. It's much worse when asked publically, and even worse on the internet.
Also no matter how many times you say it is genuine curiosity, that does not make it less insulting. It is insulting TO be curious about that particular subject. You are on a ROLEPLAYING forum; we tend to be above average in intellect, and one of the worst things you can call an intelligent individual is not intelligent...and unfortunately, when you suggest someone known to be fairly intelligent is learning disabled, that's the message that comes across. "Are you stupid?" "NO. No, I am NOT!"
Finally, I have been reading his writing. His errors are nothing more than minor homophone issues and the very infrequent grammatical error. You, on the other hand, are guilty of both incomplete sentences and run-on sentences at various points, in addition to more general grammatical errors. Your spelling is usually pretty good though.
Tad-You said USS Clueless? I have been reading through it, and I'm not sure what part is supposed to make me confused. I understand all of it. I will concede that the author uses an inordinate amount of advanced words (from the general public's perspective), but so far, I only have had to look up one word (viff, which turned out to be an acronym for Vancouver International Film Festival). Then again, I am highly above average myself, and my specialty is in critical thinking, analytical thinking, and linguistics, so....
It is very entertaining, though. Below is a link to the archive for any who wish to peruse.
Sat Oct 2 2010 11:59 pm # -
Tadeusz
MemberI'm not sure where I said you'd be confused at reading USS Clueless. He's quite clear. I think I understand what you're saying....confusion because the material is too deep for someone or too technical.
Actually, I tend to give IQ points for someone who can explain something clearly. I do this for MJ (And I've made the point repeatedly that he needs to find a way to put some of his especially clever, concise, and understandable explanations into his novels.).
And a story revealing the opposite....
I'm at a con. Some guys are standing around talking. One guy decides to come out with a statement that was not understood by any there. But it set my sensors a tremor. Others looked like they were going to agree in large part I think because they did not want to admit they didn't understand. So I started asking him patiently and deliberately what exactly he meant. It took a few minutes, but I finally got down to what he was saying in clear English. At which point, an obvious error in logical analysis (of the liberal kind) appears, and no one agrees with him. At which point, he gives me the dirtiest look I possibly have ever gotten. He knew exactly what he was doing with that high-falutin talk.
John, a good point, but I still suspect I may have been. That said, if we all had hit the dessert island together, I would have been the best choice for leader. As the Arthur and Merlin situation in the stories hopefully makes clear, you don't want the smartest guy in the room as the leader. You want someone who is smart enough to understand the smartest guy, but with other skills including empathy with the common man, and good judgment to be the leader.
Sun Oct 3 2010 12:28 am # -
JohnA1nut
MemberAnyway, the reason people took your statement as rude is because that is not a question you just out and ask someone.
Brock, I'm of the belief that I can ask you anything I want. However, you are under no obligation to answer. If you don't like the question, don't answer. Simple as that.
Sun Oct 3 2010 2:14 pm # -
John, are you trying to be as socially inept and lacking in proper etiquette as you seem, or is it just your handicapped ability to learn peeking through? (This is an extremely sarcastic, non-confrontational, and offensive question as reinforced by the rhetoric. I could certainly phrase it in a much less abrasive manner if I truly had any interest whatsoever in the answer.) John, I've noticed that many people on the boards have been taking issue with the way you confront them. Do you feel it would be fair to say that you need to work a little on your social grace? (This question achieves a much different goal by remaining confrontational in a passive or even friendly manner.) As I have just displayed, it is possible to make clear (or disguise) your true intentions through the use of words alone, regardless of inflection. It can be difficult at times for anyone to actually sit back and think, "How am I portraying myself (or, when running games or writing stories, "this character") by saying this in this way, and how could I best get across the points I would like to get across while expressing myself (or the character) in the way I would like (them) to be perceived?"
Sun Oct 3 2010 2:46 pm # -
Education means nothing to how intelligent you are. Take the four of you, drop all of you onto a tropical island. Who lives the longest? That's intellect. Their educations wouldn't do them a lick of good there.
Actually, I know a lot of people of ordinary intelligence who would survive quite well in that situation. I was reminded of it yesterday, because I saw a recruiter campaign and wondered, why did I ever do that? And I realized that I was a Boy Scout and a Scout leader for all those years in part because it was the only place I could learn things like what to eat in the wilderness, what things are necessary for survival and how do you get them, and how do you go about making yourself reasonably comfortable absent the amenities of civilization.
That's all education. In fact, don't step in the droppings is also education, whether it comes from your mother telling you repeatedly or from the experience of having done it.
Sure, you can have a great deal of education that doesn't cover how to survive stranded in the wilderness, and as between equally educated individuals intelligence is going to make a big difference in survival in that case. But as between a genius video gamer who rarely leaves his mother's basement and a Ph.D. in genetic engineering of ordinary intelligence, the geneticist probably has the advantage up in figuring out what he can eat in the wild. You need data from which to reason, no matter how good your reasoning abilities are.
That said, if we all had hit the dessert island together, I would have been the best choice for leader.
From what I hear, Brock, Adam, and I would be in front at the dessert island--isn't that the one at the far end of the buffet?
(For what it's worth, I had a lot of trouble distinguishing desert from dessert, even after I knew that the latter was from the French.)
I'm of the belief that I can ask you anything I want. However, you are under no obligation to answer. If you don't like the question, don't answer. Simple as that.
So, have the police ever questioned you about the missing children in your area? Where do you get the money to support your drug habit? Have you considered being a guest on Hoarders?
I mean, some questions are like, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" You can't ask them without implying something negative about the person you're asking.
Have you ever been diagnosed with a learning disability? I'm just asking because you seem like the kind of person who might have been thought to have a learning disability. I don't mean to imply that you're stupid, only that I can see where people might get that impression about you. Hey, it's all right--people thought I was pretty stupid, too, when I was young, and my teachers all suspected I had a learning disability. They thought that about Albert Einstein, so really, you can be extremely smart and still look like you're stupid. And having a learning disability doesn't mean you're stupid, only that people think you are.
You really can't ask that without creating that entire set of Samsonite.* You could, possibly, ask such intensely personal questions of people who are your close friends. I would ask David, because David is one of the few people in my life with whom I would share my closest thoughts and feelings. As to people on this board, well, I might ask John Mastick; I don't think I'd ask John Walker. He's lived in my home, eaten and gamed at my table, worked closely with me in the company, been nearly a father to my children and a support for my wife, and embraced me affectionately (but only when he was really drunk), but I do not know that our relationship is close enough to ask such questions.
And let's face it, John Cross: your relationship with Adam does not fall into the category of your nearest and dearest friends.
Just be grateful he did not take offense.
--M. J. Young
*For those not culturally American, Samsonite makes luggage, and it is an expression that certain things come with "baggage" or "luggage", meaning that there are less obvious aspects attached to them that you would rather avoid.
Sun Oct 3 2010 8:57 pm # -
Tadeusz
MemberI tend to think the vast majority of what we call Intelligence is skills of some kind or another. So when the Ladyfaire in a college class smokes everyone else in a class where the prof is not doing a good job teaching, and the prof holds her up as proof that he is a good teacher...its not neccessarily intelligence. Its that she had enough perception to realize after test one...not learning anything valuable from this guy, and enough gumption and imagination to go with Plan B....go out to the library and pick up a bunch of books on the topic and read them herself.
Basically, she had superior Research skills.
So when I say 'I'd have been a good leader on the DESERT island', I'm saying I have the skills to manage a small team, and the mental outlook needed, and the understanding of how to focus on what's truly important instead of going up rabbit trails, and the lack of ego to be willing to take another's good idea.
I'd be fearful that some of them would engage in passive-aggressive behavior, or wimp out, or do the 'I'm the star...watch me rescue everyone' which are all suboptimal strategies to 'let's get water, food, and shelter in that order. Ideas please, and quickly...' which is my approach.
Another example of this IQ/Data thing. At one time, I could occasionally 'hear' the liberal newscasters in J's voice because since he had dyslexia and a heavy school schedule, he did not have ability to access a wide array of data. So, if the only data you get is fifteen minutes of CNN a day, well, you're going to see the world differently from someone who reads blogs, watches Fox, buys political idea books, and reads political SF, and argues about such at the drop of a hat.
Sun Oct 3 2010 10:14 pm # -
JohnA1nut
MemberHave you considered being a guest on Hoarders?
True hoarding is a mental illness. It's an Obsessive Compulsive variant if I'm not mistaken. My hoarding is an aspect of my life, I'm thankful to say, NOT controlled by mental illness. It's just practical. People make fun of me for it. That's fine. When they're sitting at home with no money and nothing to feed their kids, we will see who is laughing then.
Sun Oct 3 2010 10:23 pm #
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