I was reading about Venom and Carnage on Wikipedia last night, and I've been reading "Darth Bane: Rule of Two" this week (about the man who founded the Sith Order in its current form), and these got me thinking - is there any way to express in Multiverser rules things like Venom's race, or the Orbalisks, that by themselves don't amount to much (a pile of gelatinous goo, or a harmless-looking bronze crab) but give a dogpile of benefits to their host, who in turn keeps them alive within his own body? (I mostly ask this because I would be interested in finding and joining with such a creature sometime in the future - I don't fear them.)
Symbiotes, Orbalisks, and Living Armor
(17 posts) (5 voices)-
johnosevens
MemberI imagine there's no such thing as a world bias being too low for a creature to live... and if the abilities it gives you are a by-product of it's life-cycle (see the Wookieepedia entry on Orbalisks for an example) then that wouldn't be interrupted, as there's also probably no such thing as a Bod bias that negates poisons/drugs.
Sat Jan 12 2008 1:27 am # -
Give the creature attributes and skills. Many symbiosis skills (found at levels B4@, B9@, and B14@) have the effect of allowing the symbiont's bod skills which are ordinarily user-only, such as regeneration, shape-shifting, or physical immunities or invulnerabilities, to apply equally to the host. If necessary, it would simple enough to restrict some of those skills such that they apply only to the host.
If you want anything more specific than that, I'll need more details on the specific creature you want to represent.
Note that if the creature depends on symbiosis to survive, then there most definitely is a bod bias too low for it to live - any bod bias that disallows its symbiosis or parasitism skill. It is possible that the creature could discover some other means within the bias for meeting its needs, but unless it does, it will die.
Sun Jan 13 2008 5:46 am # -
johnosevens
MemberBut any world that allows disease by nature allows parasitism - that's the whole point, germs killing you to live.
I don't want to have you go through the work of designing a symbiote for me until and unless I'm in a world where it's possible to acquire/encounter one. Thanks, though. And yeah that's basically what I was looking for.
Sun Jan 13 2008 5:58 am # -
Who said the world has to allow disease? As you say, disease would also be prohibited. I expect indigenous disease would be non-existent, and any disease the verser arrived with would cease to have effect unless it accomplished its ends through @1 skills. If the verser remained there long enough, the disease would die and he would be cured.
Also, I think you're assuming bacterial disease. A genetic disorder or radiation poisoning would be an entirely different ball game, as might viral infection depending on your referee's treatment of viruses.
Sun Jan 13 2008 6:08 am # -
DarkestDwarf
MemberWell... considering that mitochondria and chloroplasts are both obligate symbiants, a world whose bias or powerblocks ban symbiosis entirely would be a world without anything resembling Earth's lifeforms higher than bacteria. Even if the GM handwaved that aside, what else would such a world be missing?
Flatulence (caused by intestinal flora)
Honeybees (and with them, traditional flowers)
Clownfish
Cleaner shrimp
Domesticated animals (dogs and turkeys in particular)
Many kinds of wild mushroom, and the associated trees/orchids
All lichens
Dryads (and other spirits dependent on natural life to exist)
Coral reefs (many corals need symbiotic algae)
Figs (no caprifigs and wasps means no edible figs)
Farmer ants
Faust? (no symbiotic relationship between demon and damned providing power for the damned magician)Sun Jan 13 2008 8:31 am # -
It would also prohibit jumping, incidentally.
Two things on your list that don't belong: dryads and Faustian magicians are governed by the Magic bias, not the Bod.
Mon Jan 14 2008 3:42 am # -
It wouldn't. A bias that curves out all symbiosis (which goes as low as B4@) would also curve out jumping (which starts at B5@). Apologies for not being clear; my point was that expecting a world with a bod bias that low to look anything like Earth would be a mistake.
Mon Jan 14 2008 4:02 am # -
This is one reason why bod biases tend to be both stable and relatively high. Many of the things you indicate would not exist in a world in which the bias was low enough to prevent natural symbiosis already would not exist in such a world--for example, honeybees have to be able to fly, an 8@ bod skill, so a 4@ natural symbiosis skill would be available in any world in which indigenous creatures can fly. Parasitism is 3@, which puts it at the same level as running, so you're really limited in what bodies can do below that point--stand, walk, crawl, swim, move objects, and sense things pretty much cover it.
The trick with symbionts (and parasites) is specificity. Hopefully you've already read my post about bias in What new players should know (certainly not my name for that thread). In terms of level, a naturally-occuring symbiont is a lower level than one that is "engineered", in that it has been conditioned through training to need the host, is considerably higher, and one that is "designed", in that it is a synthesized life form which never was an independent being, is yet higher. In terms of intensity, though, a parasite or symbiont which attaches to a single species, or even a single race or breed (such as German Shepherds or Clydesdales or Causasions) is the simplest and thus lowest, @1, and the more potential hosts it has the higher its intensity. A creature that can draw indiscrimately from both carbon-based and silicon-based life forms (such as a life force parasite) is going to be @10.
Not having read the book in question, I can't say too much about the life form in question; however, Star Wars has a very high bod bias, so just about any symbiont is possible.
--M. J. Young
Mon Jan 14 2008 4:18 am # -
I have a low bod world in the works, but I think it'll be a while before I trot it out. It's exceedingly odd, presenting me with some rather special problems.
Mon Jan 14 2008 6:32 am # -
I've been doing Christmas, and immediately following that I've been reentering college. As soon as I finish settling in here, I'll go back to being as active as I can on the forum. (It's less demanding for me to answer questions about mechanics than it is for me to contribute to world design or play/run game threads; I'm easing back into it.)
Eric is taking a sabbatical from the forum. I don't know anything more than that about when he may be back or what he's doing in the meantime.
Mon Jan 14 2008 6:55 am #
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