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John Cross in TerrraTerraTerranova

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Started 1 year ago by JohnA1nut
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JohnA1nut
Member

Multiple posts (Sorry, I didn't want to take it to the next page, but it is 16 hours later)

Can I get a survivalist single shot rifle in a larger caliber? A 7.62X39 would be what I would want (Same caliber as the MAK 90) Any caliber of decent size (IE not a 22) would be good, that's just the preferred caliber. Can I get a lightweight survivalist rifle for the VSP? Three pistols, a small assault rifle, a shotgun/grenade launcher (shooting shredders), a crossbow and a sniping/large game rifle. What situation would I NOT be ready for? The three long guns together weigh about as much as the Mossberg Persuader does alone. See about that.

Oh yeah MJ. I took down my NOTES. I think from now on, I am going to keep those in a folder on my desktop.

(Doing Therapy)

Thu Jul 2 2009 7:04 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

O.K., I've decided that one thing that frustrates me about your posts is that they are very disjointed. For example, you're in the middle of a combat with Lauren, and suddenly you are asking me about whether "they" have a certain kind of gun. Lauren does not. You are not presently at a store where you can look. You wrote, "MJ, they don't have...do they have...?" You're asking me. I don't exist. You have to tell me who you're asking, and that person has to be contacted in a way that makes it possible for you to do that asking.

Yes, maybe we'll be stuck in a store for several posts, but at least we'll be focused on the subject, and not doing such scattershot posts. I know I want posts to cover broad areas and multiple subjects, but I want it to do so in a way that still retains something of game continuity--you can be talking about what you are doing at the sporting goods store, and what you're going to do after you leave the store, and we can deal with that. But if you spread yourself into too many places at the same time, I don't know even what week it is that you're doing any of these things.

I am leaving out any comments about what weapons you might be able to buy until you have gotten back to a place where you can ask.

You make the jump, landing roughly where you want; but Lauren has anticipated you, and when you reach out to tag you she's not there. You realize that she is behind you, and manage to dodge her incoming shot from behind--but the next lands, and you block the next adequately. You haven't actually had the chance to swing yet, but that should happen about now.

--M. J. Young

Thu Jul 2 2009 10:11 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Wait, Lauren can see perfectly, I'm the one who's fighting blind. What's she talking about talking revealing my position? (I ask because I was thinking about TK pulsing something as a distraction, but what's the use?)

Does my character know that she can see? He's gonna be pissed if he doesn't. No, he doesn't know. If he knew that she could see, he wouldn't have agreed to the fight in the first place. If he doesn't know, and finds it out during the fight, (she tells him, etc.) he's gonna stop the fight and blindfold her.

Maybe try to give her the gist of fighting blind. Now, I'd finally have the advantage. I've got low light and some fighting blind. She can't see at all. Or is Lauren not up to this particular challenge? (Conveyed to her in a taunting kind of way.)

Ya know, I was kind of wondering when you were going to make an issue of the disjointedness of my posts hehehe. I'll keep that in mind. Oh yeah, and just so you know, I've started keeping my notes on my desktop, per your request some time ago. (The last post used to be twice as long)

(Doing Therapy)

Fri Jul 3 2009 12:37 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

Multiple Posts

I'm assuming I can ask about the guns if I say that "After the fight with Lauren, assuming no one dies, I'm going to the gun store."

Addressing the gun store clerk.

"Hey Doc, do you have/can you order a double barrel 8 gauge and barrel inserts to reduce it to 12 gauge? You keep saying that you don't have double barrel 12 gauges, but how about an 8 gauge?"

As I stated earlier, I find this the most likely way that a double barrel 12 gauge would exist but be difficult to find. Because it was right under my nose, and I was looking for the wrong thing.

The barrel inserts are the size of the shotgun shell, and fit in the barrel. Since it's shooting shot, the barrel size doesn't really affect things a whole lot.

Is the gun store the same as the sporting goods store? That would be quite common. I'm going to assume it is.

Continuing with the clerk.
"I'd also like to get a camping mess kit. The kind that I'm looking for is two metal pie plate type halves, inside was a fork, spoon, knife, small metal cooking pot, and a metal coffee cup. The two halves were held together by a removable handle, to make one of them into a frying pan/skillet type thing. The other half was the plate. (If you've done as much camping as you say, I'm sure you've seen exactly what I'm talking about.) Can I get one of those?"

Still at the sporting goods/gun store
"Also, I's like to get a lightweight sleeping bag. The lightest, warmest bag you have. Like a bedroll kind of thing."

Continuing with the clerk
"Would you be interested in maybe buying that collapsible 22 back? It's never been fired (And a 1@10 firearms training could easily tell that) I don't think I'm going to need it."

Drop some weapons, add some tools. Forget about the single shot rifle. What can that do that the crossbow can't do silently and in a much lower bias?

(Doing Therapy)

Fri Jul 3 2009 1:49 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

Multiple Posts, 12 hours after last

After quite a bit of cutting, I've got the VSP down to about 64 pounds, which, since I'm allowed 76 pounds, I intend to get some new gear to add to it. The biggest cut was I realized I was carrying over 1,100 rounds of ammo. Now it's down to less than 400. If I need more than that before I find the rest of my gear.....

I'll post the new results, probably in the next world, since that's when it's going to matter.

Just an aside to anyone following my game. I edit my posts A LOT. If you're following me, you might not want to read my postings until after MJ posts, just so you can keep clear and up to date on my ramblings.

Fri Jul 3 2009 2:24 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Lots-o-posts, 3 hours later

MJ, if you think this is disjointed, I'm actually only doing 2 tasks, and just wait till you see the shopping spree I'm about to go on. THEN it will get disjointed.... I'm following my old pattern. Getting guns before getting things that might actually be useful.....

(Doing Therapy)

Fri Jul 3 2009 5:35 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Lauren spoke of not revealing position by talking because you were asking her questions to get her to make noise you could target.

I don't think there's any way your character could know that she can see.

"No, sorry. I don't think I've ever seen a double-barreled gun, although I suppose that must be the origin of that old saying, 'hit him with both barrels'. I always thought that had something to do with casks or something."

To your description of the mess kit, the clerk says, "How primitive. You might try an antique shop. We have instant trail food kits, if you're interested."

I believe the gun in question was special order; in that case, no buy-backs. If there's a defect, they will represent you to the company. If you broke it, that's different. But if you special-order something and pick it up, they're not going to let you return it later and leave them stuck with some specialty item no one wants, not even you.

--M. J. Young

Fri Jul 3 2009 9:32 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

"Store clerk type person, do you have any bedroll/sleeping bag type things? I need something light that I can carry."

"No, sorry. I don't think I've ever seen a double-barreled gun, although I suppose that must be the origin of that old saying, 'hit him with both barrels'. I always thought that had something to do with casks or something."

"Yeah, and Lock Stock and Barrel was applied to old flintlock rifles. The gun consisted of a lock (hammer/trigger assembly) stock, and a barrel."

Too bad, I thought I finally found a loophole....

To your description of the mess kit, the clerk says, "How primitive. You might try an antique shop. We have instant trail food kits, if you're interested."

"Show me."

I believe the gun in question was special order; in that case, no buy-backs. If there's a defect, they will represent you to the company. If you broke it, that's different. But if you special-order something and pick it up, they're not going to let you return it later and leave them stuck with some specialty item no one wants, not even you.

Understood, I'm going to be disowning quite a few things then.

Back to the fight.

By using memory, find something to TK pulse to knock over. A lamp or something, I want her to think I've moved. (When she doesn't react the way she's supposed to, could I perhaps figure out that she can see?) If she's not willing to fight me on fair terms, then no deal. See if I can give her a lesson in fighting blind.

After the TK pulse, I would try to attack her. That's just to get her attention away from me, but it's not gonna work.

(Doing Therapy)

Note to self:

FOR MJ'S SAKE JOHN, STOP POSTING!!!!!!!!!!

Keep it on your desktop, or in your head, OK????????

Fri Jul 3 2009 9:45 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Two Posts (More than 24 hours later)

I know I said I would stop, but MJ, I'm wondering. Do you think saying "For God's Sake" is taking the Lord's name in vain? I realized some time ago that saying "By God" was. (It means "By the power and authority of God in Heaven" If that's not taking the Lord's name in vain, nothing is.) I might change the above sentence if you think this would be considered taking the Lord's name in vain.

(Doing Therapy)

Sun Jul 5 2009 5:25 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

Lots-o-posts, more than 24 hours after last.

If Lauren isn't punching, what IS she doing? Slap attacks? Completely kicks? How is she attacking me?

(Doing Therapy)

Mon Jul 6 2009 7:49 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

It is my understanding that taking the name of the Lord "in vain" involves using it as an oath you intend to break or an affirmation of truth of something you do not know to be true, or in a prayer you do not wish to have answered. The point is to treat the name of God with respect, neither trivializing it nor misusing it.

Lauren's combat technique involves strikes with various body parts, including the edges of the hands, the feet, but also elbows and knees, arms and legs, fingertips. She also uses grabs and pushes in the mix.

Concerning the TK pulse on an unseen object, that would be your 1@3 Out-of-Sight Telekinesis P4@3; do you want to do that as a TK pulse, or do you want to rethink this?

*****

The clerk produces a cylindrical sack about six inches in diameter and thirty inches long, and removes from it a rolled mass of material that has the synthetic look of a space blanket, but black on the outside. It unrolls to a seven foot long thirty inch wide multi-layered rectangle which thickens up significantly with a single shake.

"The bottom is a bit stiff; it rolls but doesn't fold. It makes a very comfortable sleeping surface, as at half an inch thick the Springboard Foam is a pretty decent mattress. The top is Fiberfluff, can be compressed very thin with enough pressure but won't collapse from just the weight of your arm or something. It holds insulative air quite well, making for a warm blanket suitable for sub-freezing conditions. The shell is waterproof and black-to-silver, so it transfers heat toward the interior. It resists cutting and tearing extremely well. At seventy, it's good for most normal climates. You would be hot in the tropics, of course, but it unfastens to allow you to sleep on the bottom with the top open. If you're thinking of arctic or subarctic conditions, you'd want something with its own heating unit; they start around a hundred twenty.

"I can go a lot cheaper with something of mostly fiberfill, but this is really the way to go if you're serious."

--M. J. Young

Tue Jul 7 2009 8:10 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Well, I still edited "For God's Sake" out. Check it now... The idea isn't to see how close you can get to sinning without doing it, the idea is to be as far from it as you can.

Concerning the TK pulse on an unseen object, that would be your 1@3 Out-of-Sight Telekinesis P4@3; do you want to do that as a TK pulse, or do you want to rethink this?

My character doesn't know that. He thinks he's using TK pulse. At any rate, it would be a new use on the out of sight TK. But yeah, do that. Then attack Lauren.

=================================

"I'll take the sleeping bag, how much does it weigh?"

"Also, what about the mess kit you mentioned?"

(The 9mm rifle comes in on day 22, along with the single shot 12 gauge and some other things. Once I have that and finish my shopping spree, I should be able to display the VSP at 76 pounds)

Oh yeah, and just so you know, an hour ago, this post as twice as long.

Also, I will be disowning quite a bit of equipment in the near future, as well as going on a bit of a shopping spree. Got guns before I got things that might actually be useful. Old habits break hard.

(Doing Therapy)

Tue Jul 7 2009 9:10 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Multiple Posts, 17 hours after last

Continuing with the gun store clerk:

"I'm still not quite certain how y'all do things around here. Do I actually have to go to the store which sells what I am looking for, or can I order it from your place, and have it delivered to my room?"

I'm about to go on a massive shopping spree, and if I could do that from here, it would probably be easier on us both.

(Doing Therapy)

Wed Jul 8 2009 2:25 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Your TK doesn't find a target.

Lauren hits you rather solidly (no damage, thanks to your ability to move with the incoming hit) but then misses; you land a respectable hit on her in response. She gives you a light tap and follows it with another good hit.

The sleeping bag weighs four pounds.

The store prefers to have you pick up ordered goods at the store, as they can then check them. You can have things delivered directly, but if there is a problem with the order it's up to you to deal with the supplier. Other stores might have different policies.

Instant trail food kits have pre-prepared food in containers which will withstand fire long enough to cook the food and eat it, and then are useful as fuel thereafter. You have to add water to most of them, which makes them lightweight. They come in single serving, pairs, triples, four-man, six-man, dozen, and twenties. They're single-use kits. Because there's very little water in them, they weigh between half a pound and a pound each per person. Some are heavier, because they contain canned meat or cheese. They'll stay fresh for about fifty years.

--M. J. Young

Wed Jul 8 2009 11:08 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Is there any way my character can realize that Lauren can see? He's gonna be furious when he finds out.

Continue fighting Lauren. Do I have my new use?

=============

"I'll take the sleeping bag." Could you write up the stats on it? Or did you do that already?

"That's not what I was looking for in the mess kits. I'll certainly take some of those, but I was looking for lightweight, portable cookware that you could use to cook your own food." (I've described a mess kit to him, don't they have the modern equivalent of that?)\

I've got 3 of those lunch packs. I didn't realize they were so lightweight. Only a half pound huh? (I was thinking more like MREs, 2 pounds easy)

"I'll take a dozen pack." Please describe in more detail That's 12 days worth of food for 6 pounds. Can't beat that. I can carry 4X the food in the VSP as I thought!!!!

Continuing with the clerk.

"I need to get this (list of equipment to follow) Can you help me figure out which stores to go to?"

This, or equivalent substitute.

Folding camp saw
8 bandannas
8 king size, cloth bedsheets
plastic rain coats (sold in boxes of 36, i think.)
Plastic garbage bags
aluminum foil
couple of gallon (or more) Ziploc bags, (or other collapsible water storing device)
rubber bands
twine
unbreakable bottle of good liquor, 80 or more proof, whiskey, Jack Daniels or equivalent. (disinfectant, possible trade item)
better sewing kit, or at least a pair of good scissors.
sturdy insulated electrical wire (Electrical work and ties)
Flashlight and extra batteries.
Extremely lightweight pup tent kind of thing. Just a tent dog house, big enough to keep the rain off.

All of this together probably weighs as much as one gun and ammo, and this has zillions more uses!!!!

Once we write down what stores I'm going to, go get everything on this list. Any questions, just ask. By sometime in the near future, I want to be the proud owner of everything on that list, or their equivalent.

(Doing Therapy)

Wed Jul 8 2009 11:26 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Two Posts

I've been meaning to ask. Since I will be making an issue of the encumbrance in my next world, I'd like to know more about how it works.

For example, I'm allowed up to 76 pounds of gear. Is that total on my body, just in the pack, things in my hands count/don't count, etc.

For example, if the gun is in a holster on my belt, and not in the pack, does it still count towards the 76 pounds?

Does the belt bag count towards the 76 pounds, or is it just the backpack?

If I'm at my 76 pound limit in the pack, and try to pick up something else, is that a strength check? (For example, picking up the MAK 90 whilst wearing the pack)

Also, I should probably mention that, as soon as I have the above listed items, there will be some changes in my equipment. Should I mention these, or just keep them to myself and let you know at the appropriate time? (It's mostly with how guns are loaded and whatnot)

Speaking of which, almost forgot, when I have the items above, and some others, the pack should be at 76 pounds. Would you want to know what all is in it when I have it, or just when it becomes an issue? (For example, I'll be carrying the 9mm carbine once I have it)

(Doing Therapy)

Thu Jul 9 2009 2:13 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

I don't see any way your character could know that Lauren can see you. You already know that she can outfight you, and that she has fought against vampires and other creatures of the night, so it makes sense that she has some way of fighting in darkness.

The question of whether you have a credit for new use properly belongs behind the screens (it is a mechanics question, and not something your character would know at all); it is also something that probably won't be decided until the combat ends.

The stats for the sleeping bag are here in the thread. You can copy them as easily as I can.

He already told you that he had nothing like a mess kit based on your description. What, you want to go into business trying to invent and sell mess kits, when they have fully disposable meal kits?

That's 12 days worth of food for 6 pounds
Actually, no--that's one substantial meal for twelve people. It's not designed to be made over time, so if you made a dozen pack for your dinner you'd have to find a way to keep the leftovers over the next four days.

These things he either has or can get:

Folding camp saw
plastic rain coats (sold in boxes of 36, i think.)
couple of gallon (or more) Ziploc bags, (or other collapsible water storing device)
twine
Flashlight and extra batteries.
Extremely lightweight pup tent kind of thing. Just a tent dog house, big enough to keep the rain off.

These things he says you'll have to look for somewhere else:

8 bandannas
8 king size, cloth bedsheets
Plastic garbage bags
aluminum foil
rubber bands
unbreakable bottle of good liquor, 80 or more proof, whiskey, Jack Daniels or equivalent. (disinfectant, possible trade item)
better sewing kit, or at least a pair of good scissors.
sturdy insulated electrical wire (Electrical work and ties)

We'll cover your equipment and encumbrance when you verse out, unless there is reason to consider it before that. The maximum amount you can carry without a check is the maximum amount you can carry without a check, so you would need checks to exceed that number. It includes your underpants.

--M. J. Young

Sat Jul 11 2009 1:01 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

He already told you that he had nothing like a mess kit based on your description. What, you want to go into business trying to invent and sell mess kits, when they have fully disposable meal kits?

Because, some people don't eat prepackaged food when they go camping. Some people kill an animal and have it for dinner. Obviously, they need some means of cooking said animal. Or is this line of thinking completely out of fashion in TerraNova society? You said they don't have the two pie plates kits. Doesn't mean they don't have some higher tech version of the same thing.

Actually, no--that's one substantial meal for twelve people. It's not designed to be made over time, so if you made a dozen pack for your dinner you'd have to find a way to keep the leftovers over the next four days.

Oh I thought that was 12 individual meals. Well, can I get 12 individual meals? Half pound each, I can carry a lot more than I thought.

I'll get all of this, and the sleeping bag.

Folding camp saw
plastic rain coats (sold in boxes of 36, i think.)
couple of gallon (or more) Ziploc bags, (or other collapsible water storing device)
twine
Flashlight and extra batteries.
Extremely lightweight pup tent kind of thing. Just a tent dog house, big enough to keep the rain off.

What's the weight on the tent? The rest of the stuff, I have a pretty good idea.

The maximum amount you can carry without a check is the maximum amount you can carry without a check, so you would need checks to exceed that number. It includes your underpants.

So even the clothes on my back count.... I hadn't thought of that. In which case, I just lost about 4 pounds in the pack until I get to 2@1 strength....

The reason I'm asking is because when Lauren's Disaster strikes (It should be capitalized) I'll undoubtedly pull out one or more of the guns I'm carrying. I would think you'd like to know what all guns I'm carrying when that happens.

===================================

Kick Lauren's ass.

Sat Jul 11 2009 4:49 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

The tent is five pounds, most of that the spring plastic frame.

Lauren hits you again, followed by another tap; you find nothing but air, and get another tap, and then feel the breeze as one of her blows just misses you. Using that for reference, you hit her shoulder lightly; she swings wild and throws herself off balance, catching herself and springing back, and then hitting twice more.

As an aside, I note that most of Lauren's hits would have landed even with a -20 penalty for darkness, so there really is no way you could tell.

--M. J. Young

Sun Jul 12 2009 11:24 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

So I bought everything on the list? Cool. And 12 individual meals.

Whilst fighting Lauren, attempt again to teach myself the spinning backhand punch. It's perfect for blind combat, as it gives the attack in every direction. It would probably be thrown full-force and completely uncontrolled, as it is my first attempt using it in combat. Also, given the nature of this kind of an attack, I'd think I'd have a pretty good chance to connect, even in darkness. I'm just basically swinging completely wild.

If Lauren complains, "Well hey, after that pasting you gave me the first time, I think I owed you a little payback."

Assuming she doesn't kill me for that trick, that should be the end of it, unless I make the requisite stamina check.

Sun Jul 12 2009 11:52 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Two Posts

Assuming that I survive this fight with Lauren, I'm going for my fourth new use. (Fighting blind should have been one) That fourth new use is going into boxing stance from hands raised surrender position. Hands raised, like you would be if you were about to surrender, but going into attack stance the minute they get within striking range. This should catch the opponent off guard on the first attack. Never getting arrested again, so I might as well learn how to catch the cops off balance. I imagine I could do this by myself. It should also be my fourth new use, and take me to 2@1.

Mon Jul 13 2009 4:56 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

Multiple Posts

I have a 1@7 use crossbow skill. Does that apply to all bows, or just to crossbows? So, would I have 1@7 with an English longbow, or is it confined strictly to crossbows? I'm still trying to get a handle on how this works.

Mon Jul 13 2009 8:23 am #
WilliamTWodium
Member

Probably just crossbows, but any crossbow - that is, just about any device with a trigger that fires arrows (or quarrels, I guess I should say; they are different things). There are a great variety of crossbows. At the professional level, your skill would narrow to one kind of crossbow (while still allowing you 1@10 with all the other kinds), and at the expert level it would narrow to the specific crossbow you own (while allowing you 2@10 with all other crossbows of its kind).

Mon Jul 13 2009 10:39 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

That's what I figured Scott. You say "The specific crossbow that I own." Well, what if I was using one exactly like the one that I owned? Say you and I have identical crossbows. I'm a 3@10 and I borrow your crossbow. Is it still 2@10, or would it still be 3@10?

Mon Jul 13 2009 10:44 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

...attempt again to teach myself the spinning backhand punch.
Do you have the stats on that? I'd rather not have to search for them, and you did not describe it well enough here for me to recreate it.

That fourth new use is going into boxing stance from hands raised surrender position. Hands raised, like you would be if you were about to surrender, but going into attack stance the minute they get within striking range. This should catch the opponent off guard on the first attack.
This would not be a new use for boxing, but a new skill, a steal initiative variant designed to give you the surprise advantage.

Well, what if I was using one exactly like the one that I owned? Say you and I have identical crossbows. I'm a 3@10 and I borrow your crossbow. Is it still 2@10, or would it still be 3@10?
Let's put it in the context of guns. Up through 1@10 you've got skill with pistols. From 2@1 to 2@10 it's skill with Ruger P-89 9mm pistols. From 3@1 up it is skill with the Ruger P-89 that you carry. In fact, if you have two such pistols you can be 3@10 with one of them and still be only 2@10 with the other, no matter how similar you think they are. It has to do with knowing the precise spring tension of the trigger more accurately than anyone can measure it, the nuances of the way it kicks, the spin on the bullet and how that affects its flight. You can, of course, get 3@ skills in both of them--but these are separate skills, so you could be 3@8 with Betty on your right hip and 3@6 with Veronica on your left.

Even if you were to find your divergent and he owned the exact same gun you took with you when you versed out of Columbus that first time, your 3@ skill with yours would not translate to his, because the guns have worn differently over that time, and the nuances that matter to that level of skill distinguish the two weapons.

In theory you could find a pattern replicator and make an exact copy of your gun, and you would have the same 3@ skill with both of them--but if you improved, you would improve with one, because in the time it would take for you to get that much better you would have become familiar with the nuances that are beginning to distinguish these two guns, as use wears them differently.

It is the same with any weapon, including crossbows. What you're calling an "identical" crossbow that Scott might have is only as similar as is required to put it in the 2@ category. To be "the same" it would have to be a perfect duplicate made by some method that exactly copies an object, and it would have had to have been done recently enough that neither weapon has been used or stored or handled in any way that might have changed it even slightly (not been fired a few times by someone else who adjusted it, for example).

--M. J. Young

Tue Jul 14 2009 3:35 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

Let's put it in the context of guns. Up through 1@10 you've got skill with pistols. From 2@1 to 2@10 it's skill with Ruger P-89 9mm pistols.

I thought that was 2@ skill with all 9mm pistols, not just the Ruger P-89. The reason I say this is because the Ruger P series is made up of at least 14 different guns of at least 4 different calibers. (9mm, 40, 45, and 38 automatic, that I know of) Aside from being different calibers, they are all exactly the same. They break down the same way, and (to my knowledge) all guns of the same caliber take the same magazine. (A Ruger P-85, P-89, and P-95 are all 9mm, and all take the same mag) Would the restriction really be to one specific model? Perhaps to all Ruger P series pistols, or to all 9mm pistols. That makes more sense, at least to me.

The other thing is that, if I was a 3@ with Veronica, and loaned it to Scott, he put 500 rounds through it, it's technically not the same gun anymore, so wouldn't that drop my skill down? Or would it go back up after a brief refamiliarization period?

And why is shooting a laser pistol a completely different skill? It's still a pistol shaped weapon, attacking line of sight with the target. Yes, the bullet would drop and the laser wouldn't, but that just means the laser has longer range. If anything, using the laser pistol should just increase your chance to hit with a pistol, and/or be a new use.

...attempt again to teach myself the spinning backhand punch.

Do you have the stats on that? I'd rather not have to search for them, and you did not describe it well enough here for me to recreate it.

1@10, knock them down, 2@10 break their jaw, 3@10, break their neck. Whatever these are in damage intensities is what it would do on impact. (Just giving an example of how hard it would hit) It's a step backwards, swinging your arm pretty wildly, in a 360 degree arc. A successful attack would hit anything within arm's reach of you in a circle. Is that enough information?

The Steal Initiative skill we will leave alone for the moment.

Tue Jul 14 2009 3:52 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

Two Posts

As stated, the spinning backhand punch would be thrown full force. If it's a successful attack, it would probably put Lauren on the ground. If she complains:

"Well, after what you did to me the first time, I think I owed you that."

Tue Jul 14 2009 7:03 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

I thought that was 2@ skill with all 9mm pistols, not just the Ruger P-89. The reason I say this is because the Ruger P series is made up of at least 14 different guns of at least 4 different calibers. (9mm, 40, 45, and 38 automatic, that I know of) Aside from being different calibers, they are all exactly the same. They break down the same way, and (to my knowledge) all guns of the same caliber take the same magazine. (A Ruger P-85, P-89, and P-95 are all 9mm, and all take the same mag) Would the restriction really be to one specific model? Perhaps to all Ruger P series pistols, or to all 9mm pistols. That makes more sense, at least to me.
This is called the discrimination/generalization question, and it is left entirely in the hands of the referee as to how it will be applied in each instance. That's obviously because in some games it will be quite appropriate to say "long sword versus short sword" and in another game it will be appropriate to say "Windlass Longsword versus Katzbalger Longsword". So for some games "9mm" is a sufficient discrimination/generalization level, and for others "P-89" is the right level.

Today would not be a good day for you to force the issue, because I am not feelling particularly generous at the moment.

...wouldn't that drop my skill down? Or would it go back up after a brief refamiliarization period?
Yeah, well, that's covered in the skill check, really--you always have a chance of failure with a weapon, and so that chance of failure covers the possibility that the weapon has changed slightly. If the referee thinks it appropriate, it's best to put in a sit-mod penalty until a successful shot or two restores your feel. I don't like taking someone's 3@ skill from them without really good reason.

And why is shooting a laser pistol a completely different skill? It's still a pistol shaped weapon, attacking line of sight with the target. Yes, the bullet would drop and the laser wouldn't, but that just means the laser has longer range. If anything, using the laser pistol should just increase your chance to hit with a pistol, and/or be a new use.

Because that's the way tech skills work. You could just as easily argue that shooting a pistol is exactly the same skill as shooting a crossbow, so if you can shoot a crossbow you can shoot a pistol; or that shooting the deck guns on the Battleship New Jersey is the same as firing a pistol (only bigger). The answer is, if the principles on which it operates are different, it's a different skill, and if the device is significantly different, it's a different skill.

1@10, knock them down, 2@10 break their jaw, 3@10, break their neck. Whatever these are in damage intensities is what it would do on impact.
Oh, right. We'll have to take this up under another thread, Spinning Backhand Punch.

--M. J. Young

Wed Jul 15 2009 12:34 am #
JohnA1nut
Member

Today would not be a good day for you to force the issue, because I am not feelling particularly generous at the moment.

I wasn't arguing at all. Just asking.

You could just as easily argue that shooting a pistol is exactly the same skill as shooting a crossbow, so if you can shoot a crossbow you can shoot a pistol

Having shot both pistols and a crossbow, I'd be inclined to think it would translate, in a real-world setting. This, however, is not a real-world setting, so I'll go with what the book says.

If you watched the video, you now have about all the information I can give you on the spinning backhand punch. As you can see from the video, the attack would work in any direction.

Wed Jul 15 2009 1:59 am #
M. J. Young
Moderator

See the discussion thread on the punch.

I should ask whether you ever saw this or a similar video or saw this maneuver performed at any time prior to entering the verse. The point of the question is whether you have watched it adequately that you are duplicating what you saw, versus that you are inventing something that sounds like it ought to work.

--M. J. Young

Fri Jul 17 2009 12:49 am #

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