Gaming Outpost Discussions

1. 

   WilliamTWodium
   Member

   So Maxx is about to attempt a pseudo-time stop via personal hyper-acceleration. The rule book is not terribly helpful in this regard. I find 14@1 Slow, 14@2 Haste, 14@4 Suspended Animation, and 14@8 Time Stop. Slow and Haste have baselines that adjust subjective time for the target by a factor of two. Suspended Animation is like a Slow that slows the target so much that time for the target has practically stopped. Time Stop actually stops time within a limited area, which Maxx has specifically said he is not doing.

   What I don't see listed is a Haste counter-part to Suspended Animation: a skill which accelerates the charter so much that time has practically stopped for everything else. Should this just be a new listing, perhaps at P14@5? That seems odd, though, because the skill is superior to the higher-biased 14@8 Time Stop in that it has no need of an area of effect.

   Thoughts?

   Sat May 15 2010 9:00 pm #
2. 

   Max
   Member

   How about listing Hyper-acceleration as P14@9?

   *****

   Edit: P14@5 would probably works too considering that the skill does not target other than self. P14@8 Time Stop would probably be on higher bias because it targets something other than self.

   Sat May 15 2010 9:34 pm #
3. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   As an aside from reading the thread, barring any reason to think otherwise I would normally assume that a verser's spirit can find his body by following the scriff sense, as long as the two are in the same sub-universe. I recognize that it's really outside the bounds of the pseudo-rational explanations I use for most scriff-related abilities (because the spirit by definition cannot contain scriff), but it fits the general pattern concerning the necessity of keeping the spirit and body together.

   On topic, part of the point of the limitation on haste is to ensure that any attempt to push the envelope excessively in a somewhat lower bias curve would take massive penalties, and thus be limited if you couldn't do a time stop. If you take a haste to the rate of roughly one minute per second, you're looking at a -60 penalty (for 64 seconds per second), which means you're not going to do it unless something is strongly in your favor or you're really desperate.

   My impression is that if the character is attempting to achieve an effect comparable to time stop, it should probably be the same bias as time stop--justification, in psionic skill terms, can be found in such skills as the non-corporeality skill, which in essence says that however the effect is achieved (OBE, dematerialized body, etherealness) it falls under the same bias heading.

   I might bonus the character slightly if it appeared that the rate at which time passed was great enough to become a limit eventually, but even at one minute per second I don't see that as particularly limiting. In the specific case, I might provide a bonus if the skill is limited to accelerating a non-material form of the character.

   Overall, though, the skill appears to achieve the same effect as a 14@8 stop time, and I can't think of a good reason for it not to be at the same bias.

   --M. J. Young

   Sun May 16 2010 6:11 am #
4. 

   Max
   Member

   A couple of questions before going back to topic:

   I recognize that it's really outside the bounds of the pseudo-rational explanations I use for most scriff-related abilities (because the spirit by definition cannot contain scriff), but it fits the general pattern concerning the necessity of keeping the spirit and body together.

   So, can Morach actually detect his current body location?

   it's really outside the bounds of the pseudo-rational explanations I use for most scriff-related abilities

   What explanation do you use to enable the detection of scriff related bodies?
   Can you expand this explanation to include detection of body from a spirit?

   *****

   Back to the topic:

   the skill appears to achieve the same effect as a 14@8 stop time, and I can't think of a good reason for it not to be at the same bias.

   Hyper-acceleration does seem to achieve that. There might be some hidden artifact to hyper-acceleration that manage to make the surrounding space/time stop. This hidden artifact might put the bias for hyper-acceleration much higher.

   Mon May 17 2010 5:53 pm #
5. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   The pseudo-rational explanation for versers finding their equipment is that scriff attracts scriff, and the verser has scriff in his body and in all his things. Thus just as he from his body detects his equipment, his equipment in a sense "detects" him. If that equipment were minimally sentient--an animal, an AI--in theory it would have the same "sense" of him as an associate does. Kurt's cat Harry might be equipment (although I think he's an associate now), but he can sense the direction to Kurt based on the scriff sense just as Kurt can sense Harry.

   The spirit is specifically stated to be the "undisownable" property of the body--if some other spirit takes your body and leaves your spirit disembodied, and then verses out, your spirit goes with the body, and any "body" it is in (e.g., if it's trapped in an amulet or something) probably goes with it. Thus the body can sense the direction to the spirit and the spirit to the body.

   The breakdown exists because a spirit has no material form, is entirely of supernatural stuff, and thus cannot be scriff-infected, because scriff is fundamentally material. This is glossed over in the rules generally, but it's not actually stated (that I recall--I could be forgetting something) that the spirit can find the body--only that the spirit can't be disowned and so will always verse out with the body if the body verses out.

   As to whether or not hyper-acceleration makes spacetime stop, there's no reason for it to have a higher bias than stop time on that basis. The only question to my mind is whether there's a sufficient "limitation" to the hyper-acceleration in comparison with the stop time to warrant a bonus sit-mod to it, and I don't see one.

   --M. J. Young

   Mon May 17 2010 10:33 pm #
6. 

   johnosevens
   Member

   Taking a page from the Psionic rules here, isn't it easier to alter your own perception of the rate at which time flows (thereby causing a hyperacceleration) than it is to actually alter the flow of time around you? I mean, one is just you messing with your own perception, the other is you messing with the fundamental laws of reality. Maybe I'm thinking too much like an arcane mage here, but doesn't the means to the end count for something?

   Tue May 18 2010 1:26 pm #
7. 

   WilliamTWodium
   Member

   It's not just perception. The proposed skill (psionic, by the way) would selectively alter the flow of time only as it pertains to the user. If perception were the only thing affected, then the user would perceive his own movements as being glacially slow; the only use of a skill like that would be to buy time to think.

   Maxx - at best, you could sense the direction to your body, referred to as a "vector" (though with no sense of the magnitude - no distance, just direction). However, your character probably does not know this yet, as he would only sense it at times when he was relaxed and not thinking of much else. He hasn't relaxed since leaving his body; he's spent all of his time concentrating hard or reacting to a crisis.

   Tue May 18 2010 4:06 pm #
8. 

   Max
   Member

   However, your character probably does not know this yet, as he would only sense it at times when he was relaxed and not thinking of much else.

   Yes, which I think is a good plot device.

   Does general meditation equals to a relaxed state?

   Tue May 18 2010 4:22 pm #
9. 

   M. J. Young
   Moderator

   Does general meditation equals to a relaxed state?

   I would have to say no, but this might be a semantic response. More precisely, general meditation is a tool which can help bring about a relaxed state. The relaxed state is not the meditation but one possible result of the meditation.

   Put another way, you can attempt to meditate and not achieve a relaxed state, and you can achieve a relaxed state without attempting to meditate. If, though, you have a skill in general meditation which states that it enables you to relax, then successfully rolling that skill would put you in a relaxed state (eventually, probably within a reasonable time depending on the circumstances).

   --M. J. Young

   Wed May 19 2010 2:49 am #

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