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World Analysis Request

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Started 4 years ago by Tadeusz
Latest reply from Tadeusz

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Tadeusz
Member

I'm going to be taking a break from GMing for a couple weeks or so, in a couple weeks over at RPOL.net for my Multiverser based game "Worldwalker". My current second is named Krillis. He's a Canadian college student with an interest in Greek mythology and Latin. He's the fellow who told me how to use Latin in WAW: Evansdale. He's ran temporary gathers before, and did just fine.

He prefers to come up with his own worlds, and he has some quite neat ideas. Unfortunately, sometimes he leaves me hornswoggled, and uncertain of what advice to give him. To some degree, what I do is instinctive, and he's good enough that I've passed many times the easy level of boiled down advice I can give like the stuff I hand out here.

So here's his idea, and I'd appreciate any analysis that I can pass back to him.

============

Here's what I have so far...

Location: Radix, Nevada.

Angels
In the beginning of the game, they will be in absolutely human form. They all know that they're angels, but they're missing something important about them-their powers. They'll beseech the versers for their help to retrieve Seven Heavenly Virtues from the clutches of the embodied Deadly Sins.

Gabriel (Gabby): She (yeah, she) has power over the wind, and possibly teleportation with some time. Her heavenly virtue is Patience.
Raphael (Rachel): She has power over healing and her heavenly virtue is Kindness.
Uriel (Julius): He has the power of divine fire. His heavenly virtue is Temperence.
Selaphiel (Sarah): She has power of telepathy, and can sense the good or evil inside of a human, angel, or daemon. She can also sense intent. Her heavenly virtue is Humility.
Jehudiel (Peter): He possesses the ability of divine inspiration, and he generally has a mind for planning and leading. His virtue is Chastity.
Barachiel (Michael): He has power over lightning, and is the basic leader besides Peter/Jehudiel. His heavenly virtue is Charity.
Jeremiel (Jeremy): He, like Uriel, has power over fire. His heavenly virtue is Diligence.
*Belial (Xavier): He already possesses his power and has no heavenly virtue. He has the power to sense motive, copy voices, see people's deepest guilts, and has power over a black fire. He will only come into the picture if one of the angels dies.

The Heavenly Virtues are all in the form of people, and they're each watched over carefully by the Deadly Sins. Each Deadly Sin protects its opposing Heavenly Virtue individually. The Heavenly Virtues believe that they are humans; however, they actually aren't real at all, and upon making contact with the angel, they are joined with the angel and no longer exist in the outside world.

Charity: Greed is currently possessing a casino owner. Charity is his lonely young secretary, who gives off a happy persona, but is guilty due to where she works.
Temperence: Gluttony is currently possessing an overweight man who eats at a restraunt almost constantly, at the buffet table. Temperence is a chef there, who instinctively enjoys making salads.
Humility: Pride is possessing a military general at the moment. He lives on a base outside of the city. Humility is a young soldier he has do personal favors (nothing dirty) for him. Also, Pride verbally abuses Humility at every opportunity.
Chastity: Lust is the owner and lead dancer at a strip joint. She is the main attraction and makes Chastity work as a waitress for the most unruly and vulgar regulars that come in. The only reason Lust doesn't make her work in other ways is because the entity of Chastity is unable to. This causes extra animosity towards Chastity from Lust.
Patience: Envy scours the streets in the body of a homeless woman. She has Patience locked away, hidden in a rental garage, in the form of a young boy. He sits in a chair, having been told by Envy to stay there and wait until she returns. Envy uses her time to encite other homeless men and women to perform acts of violence and theft on others.
Kindness and Diligence: Wrath is forced to work with Sloth, due to the latter's inability to take initiative or even do a good job at keeping track of its own opposing virtue. The four live togeather in a suburban home. Sloth is in the form of an elderly man, and Wrath is in the form of a ten-year old child. Kindness is a teenage girl, and Diligence is the form of a hard-working father figure. Diligence is the only one who ever leaves the house.

I figure that the versers could split into groups with these angels in pursuit of the virtues. After that, I'm not sure what to do with them. Should it be a quest to take down the Sins in the city? Or maybe it's to find out who they work for and take him down? I'm not sure what else to do. Do you think there are any problems with what I've already gotten configured?

======

And here's my reply (not my most brilliant, btw.)

Looks pretty neat....the strip joint thing probably could work...if handled right. Remember PG.

You've got an interesting set-up. Now that the forces of evil have the powers of good tied up....what then? Is evil going about to try to find and kill all the angels while they are unempowered?

It really does look neat.

++++Let me add that I try to have my game PG rated, so that strip joint thing set off a couple alarms. But if handled right, it could work.

=======================

The angels are trying to get the jump on the sins before that happens. That's why they're splitting into smaller groups rather than tackling one sin at a time. They want their attack to get the virtues back to be semi-coordinated so that the Sins don't have time to seek them out before all the angels are ready.

My plans are set all the way up to the point where the angels get their heavenly entities back. What happens then? I can't think of anything.

Oh, I thought I should also add this in... There will be a death of an angel that happens. Wrath is going to kill Jeremiel, with the assistance of Sloth and Pride. Humility will be the first freed, and that leaves Pride open to potentially have time to help the last group, Wrath and Sloth. Jeremiel will catch Diligence outside and absorb him; then, he will be seduced by Pride to have too much confidence in his abilities, and attempt to take Wrath, Sloth, and Pride down on his own. They'll completely own him and he'll be killed.

I thought of this because of two reasons.
1. I like twists and tragedies.
2. I like the concept of Belial.

What do you think I should do after these things?
===========

Well, I'm not getting any ideas that strike me as particularly great so ......

Eric

Wed May 21 2008 6:16 pm #
johnosevens
Member

I like the idea of Belial, too, especially because Belial (historically/mythologically) is/was a demon associated with lies and guilt. It would make for an interesting plot twist if you had him come in after Jeremiel is killed... and then turn out to be a mole.

The fact that he has no heavenly virtue (and didn't inherit Jeremiel's!) should be a red-flag to the player that something is amiss with this one. Especially if his powers seem somehow out of line with the others, or his personality is somewhat darker/more aggressive/more vindictive/less controlled or sane than the others.

It seems like a decent treatment of a very basic mythic archetype, not out of line with things like "The Faerie Queen" and other such cycles (or, more modernly, "Fullmetal Alchemist," which used the Seven Deadly Sins in a similarly interesting way).

Wed May 21 2008 6:45 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator
What intrigues me here is that the presence of corporeal angels and corporeal virtues suggests a high mag bias, but the setting suggests a relatively ordinary twencen world. This in turn suggests one of three things:
1. The bias curve is high with a low level, so that non-indigenous beings (the angels, virtues, and verser, possibly the vices although the description suggests that the vices are not corporeal but are possessing indigs, so that's more complicated) can, with difficulty, perform high level magic.
2. The bias level is high but the indigs do not know it and have never explored magic. This suggests a high level of atheist/agnostic unbelief in many of the indigs which would make spells against them very difficult, but other spells relatively easy.
3. The bias level is high and there are some indigs who know this, practice magic, and are keeping it secret from the rest of the world. Whether that's a Harry Potter-like co-existence of magic and muggle, or a secret societies in hidden enclaves dark magic world could make a big difference to the tone generally; it also might mean that there is a mortal battle parallel to the spiritual battle, that is, that there is a coven or some other organization working to promote the vices and destroy the virtues--possibly that they have created this situation initially, trapping the virtues in their illusory human forms and arranging for the possessions of the indigs by the vices.
  This opens another possibility, too, connected to my next thought.
I don't see how either the angels or the verser is supposed to track down the virtues or the vices. The short inadequate and particularly uninteresting answer is that they use magic to do so. (If some spell or device will lead the verser to each of the virtues, or each of the vices, then where they are and how they are connected becomes boring.)

On the other hand, if we assume that some anarch holy order has trapped the virtues, it may well be that the seven people possessed by the vices have volunteered to be so possessed, and thus are aware that they are the jailkeepers of the virtues. (It may also be considered dangerous for a member of the order not possessed by one of the vices to be in close contact with one of the virtues--keeping them isolated prevents them from possessing a living person, which would empower them. It may even be that the contact has to be managed such that the only person who is "safe" from any specific virtue is one possessed by the opposing vice. This makes the home situation precarious, since Sloth would have to deal with Diligence, since if Wrath got too close to Diligence, the virtue might overpower the non-opposed vice. Thus Wrath controls Diligence through Sloth.

Making them part of the same order also connects them. Since Sloth and Wrath do not leave the house, the group meets in some hidden or otherwise unused room in the house. Thus if the good guys can identify one of the vices, it will have a lead on all seven, and through them to the virtues.

This would also explain why Jeremial was at the house, whether he absorbed Diligence there or came looking after absorbing Diligence: he was following a lead to the organization behind the whole scheme.

That, anyway, is some thoughts on the subject. Let me know what your world designer thinks. (He's welcome to join our discussions here, you know.)

--M. J. Young
Thu May 22 2008 1:23 am #
Tadeusz
Member

I think he has difficulty getting connected to GO.

Eric

Thu May 22 2008 2:04 am #
Kurt W.
Member

I don't have difficulty getting connected to GO in the technical sense. I can get on fine. I just have trouble navigating it and 'getting in' with the crowd here. I am just ignorant on how things are done.

johnosevens,

It seems like you're familiar with angelic mythology. Yes, Belial is like that, but in this game I actually wanted him to be sort of a trick for the versers-'yes, he's crazy, but he's not the crazy one you're looking for' sort of thing.

MJ,

I like the idea of the high bias with low exploration in magic. What are indigs, MJ?

Thank you for throwing your ideas at me on the house being a meeting place. I hadn't thought about that, and it seems like a logical idea.

Still, after all of the virtues are retreived, I'm not sure where I want to take the story. The vices are still out there, Belial is part of the group, and it leaves a whole new season open for viewers... Now, to write the new season, I suppose.

Of course, amongst the angels, they'll suspect Belial; however, he was sent by God to help them out-a backup, in case one of the virtues was lost. Speaking of the virtue of Diligence, where does it go after Jeremiel is killed? Do the sins have it locked up in a bottle? Does it go to the next of kin? Is it destroyed with Jeremiel?

Do you guys know of any other angels that could be potentials as the fallen angel who is commanding the vices?

I thought I'd address something else I forgot to mention. There are more people in this order against the Virtues. Some work in the casino, strip joint, live in nearby places to Wrath and Sloth, etc... I figure that these could be levels from the extremely low religious fanatics to people possessed by demons.

Any thoughts?

Fri May 23 2008 2:45 pm #
Tadeusz
Member

The concept is 'red herring'.

Indig=Indigenous People=Native

Lucifer, Morningstar, Dawnstar (so a girl named Dawn Astra...), Asmodeus, Leviathan (Jack Levi?), Azrael--Demon of Evil War

C.S. Lewis had his bad guys in The Space Trilogy (at least a couple of them) be materialists who were without morals, and they very quickly turned to magicians who were still evil....so you could have the police chief of the town be a confirmed and public skeptic....you think....let's convince him, and then he'll join the good....however, he's as a skeptic taking bribes and arranging for the dissappearance of bodies....as a believer...he joins with the baddies...whether this is because as a former skeptic he is vulnerable to evil by having a character flaw of choosing skepticism because of rebellion, or whether his natural evil bent got expressed in light of his beliefs....

So you could surprise your players with that. Or you could have a reporter for "The Skeptic Times" undergo this change after the players thinking what a great ally he'd make go and show him the truth.

Eric

Sat May 24 2008 3:13 am #
johnosevens
Member

I would be worried about the destruction of one of the heavenly virtues. What happens to the concept of Diligence when Jeremiel dies? Not the Virtue as an embodied presence or power, but the concept of Diligence in mortal conciousness. Wouldn't that allow the corresponding Vice to run rampant until a suitable host could be used to re-establish the existence of Diligence as both person and concept?

I think it would be the most interesting scenario to simply have Diligence be suppressed, for... let's be traditional and say a year and a day. So for a year and a day, the whole world slacks off because the concept of Diligence and all that it entails (like having a work ethic) is removed from common awareness.

But that's just me - your mileage may vary.

Sat May 24 2008 4:54 am #
Tadeusz
Member

In 2004, the French had an unusually hot August. Instead of modifying their traditional month at the beach, they let ten thousand oldsters die from heat in that month.

Along the same lines (which is based on 07's idea)...what if every nuke plant operator really did act like Homer Simpson?

PT

Sat May 24 2008 5:35 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Welcome, Krillis.

Indig=Indigenous Beings, those who are native to a world, as opposed to those who come from another world. Versers are not indigs, but neither are angels, demons, dimensional travelers, and sometimes time travelers (because they might come from a world in which the biases are different).

As far as where to take the story after the virtues have been recovered, you might consider letting the players make that call. Really, I would not count on the players falling into what you expect the story to be anyway--just create the situation, and let them decide what to do about it.

Although it is difficult to imagine Sloth running rampant because Diligence has been destroyed, Harry is right about the concern. I would suggest that Diligence slips into the cosmic subconscious or something like that--a sort of astral or ethereal dimension which will have to be entered somehow to retrieve it. I might also allow the verser to be temporary holder of a virtue until another angel can come for it. I'm not even against the idea of a verser becoming the permanent representative of a virtue as he travels the multiverse, but that would have to be a decision made by the player to take the virtue.

--M. J. Young

Sat May 24 2008 10:02 pm #
Kurt W.
Member

Thank all of you for the help.

It was a pleasure to meet you two-Mr. Young and johnosevens. (I already knew Tad from Worldwalker).

If I could fill this one post with something unrelated, could I ask how to go about 'getting in' in gamingoutpost? It's rather interesting; however, having an account and not knowing what to do kind of sucks...

Sun May 25 2008 4:36 pm #
Tadeusz
Member

MJ runs games for players here as I do at Worldwalker. Although he might be just a teeny-tiny bit more official about it than lil' ol' moi.

You can also just treat the whole forum as an OOC thread.

Also feel free to post your ideas. Why don't you go back over some of your ideas...and repost one...like the one about Hades being a physical realm...that was pretty cool.

Eric

Sun May 25 2008 6:03 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Krillis, it depends on what you want to do here.

Obviously you have created an account. You can post articles or blog entries or reviews through the "other side" of the site accessible through the main page. You can interact with posts here. We have a couple of "lurkers" who make their presence felt by keeping e-mail addresses of several of us and dropping e-mail assistance when we mention problems or complications, some of whom have never (as far as I know) posted on the site.

If your interest is in playing a forum game, this too can be arranged.

I should explain that when you view the "Main" forum page here, you are seeing the general stickies and the most recently active threads. There are three "sub-forums" here, listed and linked below the active thread list. Although nearly everyone here at present is involved somehow in Multiverser, that has not always been so and the management hopes to bring back people involved in other games. However, if you visit the Multiverser forum, you will find two stickies there. The one is entitled Yes, You Can Play, But...., which explains something of what is expected of players, and the other The Character Generation Thread, which takes you through the essential steps of creating a character. (You can, at your preference, create the character there or start a new thread. Please start new Multiverser threads in the Multiverser forum, so we can find them more easily if they fall off the front page, as they sometimes do.)

If you mean something else, please explain.

--M. J. Young

Sun May 25 2008 11:45 pm #
Kurt W.
Member

Do I call you Tad, PT, or Eric here?

M.J.,

I am rather interested in joining this site as a multiverser player; however, I'm concerned that I'll be a burden of sorts on an already filled schedule, including real life responsibilities coupled with running current players.

I'd rather not be such a burden on you.

Also, guys, I think there was a miscommunication down the line somewhere. In Mr. PTaderic's first post in this discussion thread, some of my information is incorrect. Malachai was the Canadian, and I'll be starting at a university in the fall of this year. Sorry if I've confused anyone. I'm still good at Greek Mythology and Latin, though (cept when it comes to geography!).

Thu May 29 2008 4:35 pm #
M. J. Young
Moderator

Krillis, as far as what to call people, I try to use real given names where I can get them, but that's not a rule, and you can call anyone anything that is not rude or objectionable that they will recognize as identifying them. It helps if the rest of us also can recognize who you mean, but that usually comes out in context, particularly when you quote or cite something.

As far as being a burden, well, you've put me on the spot. On the one hand, it's certainly true that a great deal of my time is spent answering posts here, and many of those are game play posts; it's one of the reasons I try to get others here to run games for each other--it frees me from having to do quite as much work--although of course the big reason is that it helps them to "apprentice", as it were, to running Multiverser games. On the other hand, I get the sense that you would anticipate being a burden because you would be infrequent or erratic in your posting. I rarely run "gather worlds" on the forum, precisely because people come and go as their schedules allow. Sometimes people arrive in batches, and so I will run a gather of new people until they get blown out of their starting universe, but even then if you vanish the worst that will happen is you will be uninvolved and return to discover that your character is poised to die in some horrible disaster awaiting you to make some futile effort to save him only to awaken in another world in a new thread. (Insert appropriate emoticon here.) Thus if you wanted to play but thought your visits would be erratic, that's not a problem. I would hope that you would let me know if you had decided you were not returning at some point, so I wouldn't try to keep your character papers active, but that's a separate issue.

I'm not twisting arms or anything, just inviting. You can probably learn as much by reading the games in progress, really, but being involved in play makes learning a bit more fun.

--M. J. Young

Thu May 29 2008 6:49 pm #
Kurt W.
Member

I looked at the character generation thread, and I openly admit that I am thoroughly confused by all of that.

I know near nothing about the multiverser system, and I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing. I mean, I follow what it says, but I looked at the first response to your character generation thread, and I don't know how to convert my answers into that.

Thu May 29 2008 7:49 pm #
JohnA1nut
Member

Let me see if I can shed some light on this. Do you have any skills that you are professional at? Those skills are listed as 2@. Amateur skills are listed as 1@. Average amateur ability is 1@5. Does that help at all?

Thu May 29 2008 7:57 pm #
Kurt W.
Member

I'm entering a university in the fall, and I haven't really done anything that I can think of off the top of my head that would merit professional ranking, other than perhaps specifics.

I'm highly proficient in Latin, but I suppose that being best in my class would still only put me at a high amateur. I'll go try and figure the numbers. Thank you for the help.

Thu May 29 2008 8:00 pm #
johnosevens
Member

A1Nut and Krillis - Do this on the Character Generation thread, you nefarious hijackers and evildoers, you. Nyah! *shakes finger and looks all dramatic and authoritative, despite a lack of any actual moderator powers*

Fri May 30 2008 12:21 am #
Tadeusz
Member

Eric's fine, so is Tad, so is PT. I'm not that good at being anonymous. Tadeusz is the name of my character in Multiverser (and in the SCA). Playtester is what I use at RPOL.net. Eric is what my mother chose for me.

I had...various reasons for using alt-names which seemed sufficient at the time. For one, it bothers me less to get yelled at as Tadeusz than as Eric. Also, I'm occasionally so rude as to say nasty things about people who strap nail bombs to retarded people, and considering what happened to Theo Van Gogh, it sometimes feels a tiny bit safer (not that I'm not just another of ten thousand Net loudmouths.) Other reasons apply too.

Although, I have to admit, PTaderic is pretty funny.

Eric

Fri May 30 2008 12:50 am #

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