Lets list a few types (and yeah, I know a ton of types, I'm looking for stats and data here, not just names.)
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Types of Martial Arts
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1. Psi-Fu
2. Modern Crusader Swordsman
3. Mark Ryu (a specific form of Starsong Customized Martial Art)
4. Gazuntite?? Is this listed elsewhere?
5. Silat
6. Eskrima
7. Krav Maga
8. Florentine Style Sword-fighting
9.
10.
Silat is Fast, Aggressive, and Weapon Utilizing.
Escrima is Fast, Aggressive, and Weapon Dependant.
Krav Maga is Fast, Defensive, and Weapon Utilizing.
2. Florentine Swordfighting
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*This is not completed yet.
*For near-variants of this skill, we'll use the same skills.
*Some Non-Florentine fencing uses defensive weapons such as a Main-Gauche[a defensive dagger], buckler[small shield], and cloak-fighting techniques), but Florentines rely on the use of two weapons.
Style: Fast, Aggressive, Weapon Dependent (Rapier, Foil, Epee', Sabre.)
Style Multiplier: 2
The Sword is Part of the Arm: Martial Arts Weapon B 7@1 +5 SM. If you are allowed to limber up, then it is +15.
Cornering An Enemy So He Can't Move Freely: Tactical Movements B 7@2 Whether its forcing the opponent to back up a staircase where he can't see his feet because he's focused on your flashing blade, or just herding him into a corner of the room, it all helps to keep the weasel from darting about to get away. +10 SM, RS=Sit Mod.
Your Mind is Your Weapon, The Sword is Mere Metal: Improvised Martial Weapon B 7@6
Personal Space, Please!: Leveraged Attacks B 7@3 Whether sword blade against sword blade and a push to the dastard, or the gallant spins about a pole to slam a blackguard in the chest with both feet, what is achieved is space. +5 DR.
Parrying: Advanced Parrying B 7@5 +15 SM.
Study Your Opponent's Weaknesses: Defense Analysis B 7@7
Ambidexterity:
Two Weapon Style:
9. Ku Fung
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*This is one of several I copied from the GO site a while back.
Ku Fung B7@1 Fast Defensive Weapon-averse Punch style -20 def sit-mod, -10 def damage mod, RF2, -10 att sit-mod (PENALTY), Body Part: Hand
Bo Staff Martial Arts Weapon B7@1
Solid Punch, B7@3 intensified damage: damaging, standard attack success required, -10 sit-mod.
Power Punch, B7@3 intensified damage dangerous, lethal against objects, only attack in minute against objects, limit of two attacks in the minute against creatures, standard attack success required if used against creatures or armor, attack on weapon if used against weapon, automatic breakage on failed d100 relative success density check.
Blitz B7@3 lethal base attack using rapid combinations of punches and kicks, requires hands and feet to be free (no weapon held), only attack in the minute, +20 damage mod, confers +15 bonus to opponent attacks (defenses are lowered).
10. Tae Kwon Do
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*This is one of several I copied from the GO site a while back.
Tae Kwon Do SAL 1@10 RF2 +15 Att SM -10 Def SM
Standard Kick B7@1 annoying attack (+DC)
Power Kick, B7@3 intensified damage dangerous, lethal against objects, only attack in minute against objects, limit of two attacks in the minute against creatures, standard attack success required if used against creatures or armor, attack on weapon if used against weapon, automatic breakage on failed d100 relative success density check, target must be between knee and chest height of user
Blitz B7@3 lethal base attack using rapid combinations of punches and kicks, requires hands and feet to be free (no weapon held), only attack in the minute, +20 damage mod, confers +15 bonus to opponent attacks (defenses are lowered)
Escape Hold B7@5
Balance B0@4
Fall Shock Absorption B4@6 incorporates B4@4 Tumble to Erect Position -10 SM
Tae Kwon Do B7@1 Fast Aggressive +15 Attack SM -5 Defense SM 2 Attacks strikes, especially kicks weapon adverse (-15 SM for weapon in hand)
11. Okinawan Kobudo
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*This is one of several I copied from the GO site a while back.
Okinawan Kobodu B7@1 Slow Defensive -15 Defense SM -5 Attack SM +20 Attack Damage Mod 1 attack weapon dependent
Bo Stick B7@1
Sai B7@1
Nunchaku B7@1
Tonfa B7@1
Standard Kick B7@1 annoying attack (+DC)
Power Kick, B7@3 intensified damage dangerous, lethal against objects, only attack in minute against objects, limit of two attacks in the minute against creatures, standard attack success required if used against creatures or armor, attack on weapon if used against weapon, automatic breakage on failed d100 relative success density check, target must be between knee and chest height of user
Escape Hold B7@5
Disarm B7@5 requires weapon
I'm wondering where Ambidexterity and 2-weapon fighting is.
Also, I'm wondering where my Modern Crusader MA is. I think there might have been an original Music Wars post that is not included in the 'what we have now' tag for music wars. I'll hunt for it a bit.
The way things dissappear off the main page, and its hard to go back and hunt the archives is disturbing to me. I've got a lot of stuff back there that needs some dusting, and polishing, and would be ready to go.
OK...found Modern and Brawling to boot. One problem solved.
I believe Gazuntite is listed on the newly-relocated Martial Arts page, along with Ku Fung and Tae Don Kwo. (There's a handy chart.)
I have a few styles in the works and one or two finished, but I intended to post them separately so I could address a few mechanical questions; should I do that soon, so you can add them to your list?
I was making them just as much to improve my understanding of the martial art system as I was to have them available. After all, if I understand the system completely and I can do anything with it, I don't really need to have pre-made styles on hand as long as I can be assured ten or fifteen minutes' notice to whip a new up.
Which, of course, isn't to say that they couldn't be useful to other folks, possibly people who won't have that ten minutes, or who would like to look at a few more examples before creating their own . . .
I'm rambling, forgive me. And yes, I'm working on vampire stuff.
Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting and such D20-esque constructs don't really have the same function in Multiverser. In most systems, the point is to get more attacks per round. In Multiverser, you get the number of attacks your strike value, skill level, repeat factor, and style multiplier dictate, regardless of how many weapons you happen to be holding.
Of course, if you've got two weapons, that means you have to be disarmed twice before you're weaponless. And if it's a weapon-dependant style and they're not two of the same weapon, you've got two Martial Arts Weapon Skills (MAWSs) that could potentially activate the style automatically, instead of just one. And if the weapons have different stats, you've got more options in combat - ask Adam about his pistol-katana combo.
Penalties for using two weapons are up to the referee, but generally if it's included in the style training, we ignore it.
That's quite a nice list MJ has...I didn't realize he'd done so much work on this. From my extremely brief perusal it looks well done....The chief problem I have is MJ's penchant for tongue in cheek names. Some of its okay, but most people won't like it in that heavy a dose. Most people want THEIR martial art to sound scary and cool. After all, Tad carries a Plasma Cannon, not a Plasmo-Blasto-Thingo. Same principle.
Most people don't use Mnemonics as an additional point. Some of the names like Tur Ki Foo do stick in the brain tis' true.
I would reccommend that any further MA's created be given serious names as the general rule unless the personage using it or the style is deliberately meant to be funny or weird...Like if O'Sevens writes up a MA for Freakout and calls it Freaky's Fiendish Fingerjabbing...well that fits a demented clown.
I figure we can get our styles finished whenever, and then lump them and ask MJ to add them to his list.
What with the styles already done, its not so urgent that this be worked on.
However, I do need to at some point work on Silat.....
No, I don't. I need to talk O'Sevens into changing his MA styles to something that is already written up so I don't need to create more. Slaps self on side of head...
I think holding two weapons should lower the repeat factor and lower the skill factor. This matches my experience with boffer swords, btw. And if you're ambidextrous this cancels out some of the pain, and if you're skilled in 2-W, some more.
Basically the d20 rules.
But it makes sense. The other doesn't.
The Martial Arts work was originally done largely as an OAD&D project; the earliest names were chosen in part for mnemonic value and in part to distinguish them as entirely fictional styles--several styles taking the names of famous Eastern political figures like Chow En Lai and Mao Tse Tung. My OAD&D players started taking a penchant for Oriental characters, and even more for playing the "create a style" game, and they provided many of the names simply because they liked the funny names. I kept them, because they do have a great deal of mnemonic value--I don't have to check to remember that Han Karon is the one that uses the baseball-bat-like Tetsubo, or Won Ton is the very slow defensive style, or Von Dom is a kick style and Mung Ki a lock and hold style. Not only do the mnemonics make it easier to recall the name of one style here or there, it makes it much easier to remember a tremendous amount of information about many different styles.
I also avoided using the names of real styles not merely for the mnemonic factor but also so that if I had players who had studied those styles, they could tell me how those styles worked instead of me trying to tell them how I, with one single martial arts lesson in my life, characterized and defined the style in which they have a third degree black belt.
I later converted them all to Multiverser, in part as an exercise in demonstrating that you can pirate things from other games rather directly. A few styles have been added since then, which were created for use in Multiverser specifically.
And as far as I'm concerned, if you want to take Flopping Fish and use it in your game as Han Soo Shi, that's your prerogative--copy the information and give it a different name. I recommend that if you're creating styles, you give them names that will enable you to connect them back to something that will jog your memory, and hopefully the memory of anyone else who uses them. You'll note that the styles created for the human characters in Bah Ke'gehn are listed on the web site with the characters' names. That works for me with the three Mitzu styles, but I cannot recall the Weissgarten Variant or Bevridge Boxing, although that may be as much because I've had no real use for them in play.
To quote Adrian Monk, you'll thank me later. Probably you will, though, because eventually you'll have enough martial arts styles in various games/worlds that you'll be asking yourself, "which one is that?", and the more you've done to connect the names to the characteristics of the styles, the easier it will be to remember them all.
I'm aware that there's a lot more that can be done with the martial arts stuff. For one thing, nearly all of that is eastern/Oriental, and there need to be more western styles.
Eric wrote:
I think holding two weapons should lower the repeat factor and lower the skill factor.I must not be understanding you here. What you're saying is that if someone wants to use two weapons, he should have fewer attacks per minute, a lower chance to hit, and less potential damage on a success. Why, then, would anyone ever do this?
Our system goes more like this:
- Your total number of attacks is equal to the most attacks you could have with any one weapon or the style itself.
- Your total number of attacks in any particular mode (any weapon you control and any weaponless attack or maneuver) is limited to the maximum number of attacks you could get with that based on your skill and strike value and its repeat factor, within the corresponding limit that you cannot exceed the maximum total attacks for the minute with all attacks combined.
- Your chance to hit and damage with each attack is based on your skill with that weapon/attack form.
- I believe the gun has an RF10, and he has a 3@ SAL and a 2@ RSV, so he could get 60 attacks in the minute with it; it only has fifteen bullets, but he can fire these as fast as one per second. I think they're base damaging, so they come to lethal with their +2DC, plus points.
- His katana is base dangerous with a base damaging rider, with +2DC on the base and +DC on the rider; he gets up to six attacks with this, which come off the sixty he gets with the gun; he can take them in any order he likes.
- He is using these in Chow En Lai, an RF2 Weapon-dependent style with a number of maneuvers; he knows at least one kick attack. He can use the kick up to its maximum number (probably 2 per minute, but I'm not sure).
I think that D&D, in the incarnations I've seen, gives an extra attack for that extra weapon, but charges some substantial penalties for it. I think that the use of the second weapon has to confer some sort of advantage or no one would use it; at the same time, there is the possibility that someone might see that he can get an extra attack for using two weapons, and then grow six arms and get five extra attacks. Our limit is based on the assumption that whatever your fastest rate of attack is with your fastest weapon, you can't improve upon that by taking another weapon because you're dividing your attention between them.
As for the ambidexterity issue, it's too difficult to fairly adjudicate. After all, I'm right handed, but there are a number of things I do with my left hand that require enormous dexterity that I cannot do with my right hand--such as play the fingerboards on several stringed instruments--and quite a few things that I can do equally well with either hand--such as speed dial a telephone or operate a calculator pad. Sure, I should penalize someone for trying to do something with the wrong hand, but if someone has always used the sword in the right hand and the gun in the left, the probability is that for the gun, the right hand is the wrong hand. I'm satisfied if I've got a fair way to adjudicate the number of attacks he gets, and prevent him from getting two many. Sure, you can get a lot of bullets out of an AK, and you can get twice as many in the same time from two AKs, but you can't aim and fire both guns at maximum fire rate for each. I require you to split your attention between your weapons, and the way that's displayed is that you get the maximum number of attacks of your fastest weapon, and no more.
--M. J. Young
On the misunderstanding, I was misunderstanding the rules. I'm struggling with the MA rules.
I want more attacks, but with less chance of hitting and of doing serious damage. This matches my experience with boffer swords. You really can do more attacks, but you're not focusing on each one as well. Now I am an Amateur Boffer Swordfighter, and so I don't know what a Pro could do (except by way of seeing them chop me up while falling asleep seemingly at the same time.)
As to the guy with five arms...well, I think dividing his attention and his chance of success would be reasonable. I think also that some alien race might have the type of multi-lobed brain able to handle all five at the same time, and that should be designed for. In that case, the Multi-Lobed Alien with Five Arms would be naturally superhuman. And to get that ability might require changing the body of the verser.
I'm currently working on several types of Martial Arts:
1. Zero-Gravity Wrestling (thats obvious what its about)
2. Wall-dancing (Cyberpunk Street samurais with superhuman strength and agility bouncing up between two buildings in an alley, and kicking each other.)
3. Gun-kata--Hong Kong cinema gunfights like in Mr. and Mrs. Smith, the movie. Very ballet in its way.
4. Boarding Axework--an unimaginative name (I'd like a better one) for the pirates and marines in my E.E. Doc Smith influenced "Iron Pirates of the Solar System" setting which Jhiaxus played. Spaceships and axes and Purple Men of Jupiter....
5. Florentine Sword-fighting (Two-weapon issues come primarily from this...)
I thought about making 'Chiphead' a Martial Arts Style. This comes from old Cyberpunk where you slot a chip into the receiver in the back of your skull....and wham...you're a black belt.
But I think it fits better as a Martial Arts Modifier or a Tech Device. It will give you the same skill...but with disadvantages. Using the device is unhealthy. Too much use is really unhealthy.
Also, as one story put it....the chips were designed by copying the body moves of a 5 ft. six inch tall Oriental which is not purely without problems when you're a six foot two inch Caucasian.....anyways something like that was the book's example.
As you can see, 'Matrix' updated this idea for their setting with their 'downloads'.
I want more attacks, but with less chance of hitting and of doing serious damage.
If you really, really want it, a style multiplier and an offensive penalty might be the way to go.
Style #1 sounds like you're focusing primarily on a highly-specialized B7@2 Positional Training (which would eliminate most penalties for the conditions). The style itself is probably a grapple or throw style (although "push" takes on some new meaning in this case), but aside from that, you could have a great variety of zero-G martial arts.
OK, Wodium. I think I see what you're talking about. I'll see what I can do with that.
Its neccessary. One, it fits. Two, the most common RPer species is Deetwenticius Roleplayingus, and they would expect it.
As to Zero-G Wrestling, hmmm, it makes sense to have Positional be a big part of it. I can see making it the primary.
I don't really see other styles working as well in zero-g. You could do some form of Lancer combat where people fly at each other, and hit,a nd then rebound off walls. Wrestling doesn't really do that....It goes for the grapple, and then the superior grapple, and then chokes the enemy out or pops their joints. In Zero-g Wrestling, once you've grabbed an enemy, you don't let go.
So, on that view of it, Postional isn't such a big part of it. It doesn't focus on slamming the other guy into the wall...although it can do that. It focuses on going for the final grapple. Two guys twisting and flailing for a balanced crush in space is part of it.
Now, you could come up with a type of Zero-G combat which was about slamming the other guy into the wall, or leaving him floating helplessly in the middle of the air.
And then there's the Lancer Kick Style??? which is basically Karate in Space....It focuses on speed and power, and reach....a high master Lancer can kill someone with one kick....they rocket off the wall of a zero-g dome with a convulsive shove, and then slam into the target with enough force to explode a heart.
Lastly, you could have some sort of style which focuses on your retaining your grip on the wall, and forcing your opponent to lose his, and his leverage.
And maybe a Drunken Monkey Style Kung Fu also called Stupid Newbie Kung Fu where the master pretends to be an utter noob, and bounces in wild, uncontrolled bounces and twists, and frightened spins of arms, and sudden snaps of his body....which somehow end up knocking all his opponents unconscious.
Feel free to write up these as I probably won't any time soon (I need to finish my vamps and my MHome piece). I'm going to try to limit myself right now to the first four.
I'd be curious about any conceptions you might come up with. I jumped the gun by tossing out mine...so feel free to rewrite them and make them better if you like as well.
"Positional Training," as used in the book, is primarily about fighting when you, the martial artist, are in an unusual position or posture. The most common example is Fallen Fighting, where you learn to fight just as effectively on your back or on your stomach as on your feet.
With no gravity, I perceive two main problems: first, that the action/reaction of your bodies own motions will be different than on the ground in 1G; and second, that the action/reaction of your attacks on your opponent will have significantly different effects on you and your position in space. Positional training would cure the first - with practice, you can predict the effect of every motion you attempt to make, and thus eliminate the problem of trying to do one thing and accomplishing another. Positional Training would also eliminate all penalties on combat skill success associated with the second, but you'd still to contend with laws of physics. A kick against a foe when you're both in a Z-G freefall will send you and he moving in opposite directions.
In Zero-g Wrestling, once you've grabbed an enemy, you don't let go. So, on that view of it, Postional isn't such a big part of it.
I can still see a 7@2 Zero-G Training skill coming in handy to compensate for the lack of gravity, the altered relationship with the ground, the fact that the opponent has no footing to lose and no weight which can be used against him, etc. A zero-G trained amateur wrestler vs. a untrained professional wrester should favor the trained amateur.
Perhaps you could even build the style such that it gets extra bonuses when the 7@2 skill works, in exchange for penalties when the skill is unnecessary? I've never seen anything like that done, but it might be appropriate.
Two, the most common RPer species is Deetwenticius Roleplayingus, and they would expect it.
I'm not sure that expectation is a reason to use another system's mechanic. The goal in 3rd Edition D&D is to make two-weapon fighting a possible choice, but to discourage it unless the character is of a type that is somehow bonused in it - the ranger who gets the first two feats free while he's wearing light armor, for example, or the rogue whose attacks during the first round of combat get significant bonus damage (and who is likely to use "light" weapons anyway due to his high dexterity and tendency to choose the Weapon Finesse feat). Multiverser, by contrast, has no interest in encouraging or discouraging skill or style selection by character type.
I'll write up a Florentine Fencing for you that works without any sort of particular skill for Ambidexterity or Two-Weapon Fighting, but which none-the-less effectively employs two weapons. Then I'll have something to point at when I argue the merits of the system we have.
Indeed, a kick would rebound you both. Which is why in Zero-G Wrestling, you go for choke holds. Its why you wrap your legs about the waist to provide a firm anchor point, and then pop the enemy's shoulder joint.
In order to punch someone, and stay stable...you'd have to be anchored, already have momentum (like the Lancer Kicker), or create momentum by throwing one arm out to the right, and the other to the left....and the one arm that was not hitting anything would have to punch the air twice as hard....I think, maybe.
Forex: Joe the Zero-G Boxer is hitting Thug One. Both have drifted to the middle of a dome area, and are floating. Thug One is pulling out a laser pistol...which has almost no kick or reaction. Joe slings out his right fist to the right, and his left fist goes in the opposed directiong leftward into the face of Thug One.
Now...is that balanced? Or does Joe receive a 'push-off' effect from hitting Thug One's chin? I think he does, which means the first punch has to be light, deliberately, and the other has to be very strong....
Florentine Fighting
Let's assume first that all swords are RF1; that means that an expert with a 3@ MSV could get 9 attacks in a minute, and that's going to be extremely rare. You're really really good swordsmen are going to be experts with 2@ MSV, 6 attacks in the minute.
Let's also assume that our swordsman uses this in a martial arts style. If the style is RF1, then regardless of how good he is in the style, his sword attacks will be limited by his SAL with the sword--probably 6 for our hypothetical really really good guys. Give him a 3@ SAL in the style, and it comes to the same thing, six attacks. He can trade between sword attacks and special maneuvers, which might include things like feint, foot sweep, disarm, or even punch or kick or some special type of tactical sword maneuver.
If we give this same swordsman a style that is RF2, and we kick it up to the same 3@ SAL, suddenly he can make 12 attacks in the round (and the guy with the 3@ MSV could make 18); but with the sword he is still limited to 6 (or 9). That means his other six would have to be foot sweep, punch, maybe feint--things that do not constitute attacks with the sword (and thus probably not disarm or any tactical sword maneuver). There is very little incentive for the swordsman to learn an RF2 style, since the limiting factor is the speed with the sword, not the speed in the style.
However, put a sword in his other hand, and your RF2 style suddenly allows him to get 6 attacks with one sword and 6 attacks with the other, all within the maximum 12 attacks for the minute created by an RF2 style times 3@ SAL times 2@ MSV (and 9, 9, and 18 if we have a 3@ MSV). So he has increased his number of attacks, and it is worth it for him to use two swords--probably. The sticking point is that when he had an RF1 style, there were up to maybe 30 points of modifiers that were spread about offensively and defensively, so he's got big offensive and or defensive sitmods and/or damage mods. When he went to an RF2 style, he cut that back to maybe 20 points, and his modifiers fell sharply, more choices having to be made, whether this is going to be more heavily on attack leaving him more vulnerable or more heavily on defense leaving him less effective, or just not as much on either.
Thus you get your "less effective but more attacks with swords" that way.
Positional Training
This also includes fighting in water, and so yes, it includes fighting in zero gravity.
Incidentally, if you kick someone in a gravity environment, it, too, sends both of you in opposite directions. The difference is that in gravity you have that extra force to overcome, so neither of you moves as far. Positional training in zero gravity could very easily teach you how to use and transfer your momentum such that when you kick the opponent you are already moving toward him and the kick simply stops you (or even merely slows you), transferring your momentum and force to the target much as with pool balls. Thus you could very easily use a kick style in zero gravity if you trained in positional training: zero gravity, because just as training in water would teach you to overcome the resistance of the fluid environment and so deliver the desired impact, so too positional training in zero gravity would teach you how to anticipate the lack of support from gravity. If you punch someone while you are both in freefall, it knocks your shoulders backwards and puts you in a spin; but if you manage to throw your body into a forward spin just before delivering that punch, it stops your spin and stabilizes you.
--M. J. Young
Much better answers than mine to both issues.
Also, I'd never realized that a style's repeat factor didn't extend to the weapon. I might need to revise a style I've got in my notes.
Quick question:
but with the sword he is still limited to 6 (or 9). That means his other six would have to be foot sweep, punch, maybe feint--things that do not constitute attacks with the sword (and thus probably not disarm or any tactical sword maneuver).
I'm wavering back and forth over whether to allow an Advanced Parry that "uses one attack" to draw from this pool of non-weapon attacks. Assuming the skill works with the skill check opposing the opponent's attack roll, what call would you make?
And while I'm at it, which style modifier do I apply to the skill roll - the defensive mod because it's a defense, or the offensive mod because he's attacking the opponent's attack? Or neither?
First, I almost invariably use the defensive modifiers for any maneuver that is essentially defensive. I will make very narrow exceptions, if for example it is a weapon-dependent style and a weapon-utilizing defense, and the offensive modifiers are better, on the assumption that the way this parry works is very specifically as an attack on the opponent weapon. However, note that this means that if this weapon-utilizing maneuver is transferred to a different style (with stronger defensive mods), this maneuver still uses the offensive mods.
Similarly, I'm going to have to punt on whether the parry can draw on the non-weapon maneuvers pool. If this is seriously envisioned as a weapon-based parry, you might want to require it to draw on the weapon attacks--for example, it's pretty obvious that when I set up a figure eight defense with one kau sin ke, I can't use that kau sin ke also to attack; it's tied up. However, if this is more of a parrying technique which might or might not require the use of the weapon to perform (e.g., you could do it with a dishtowel in your off hand), then put it in the general pool. However, be consistent--remember that there is a limit on each pool, and those limits will change independently of each other based on the skill ability levels of the different defining skills.
--M. J. Young
Krav Maga! That is insane! I just saw a docu about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga