Behind the Screens 2008 · Page 5

I have Harry, John II, Adam, Graeme, and John I. Probably if I'd gotten here just a bit later, I'd also have had a post in my own game thread--but I'll enjoy the games I'm running, I'm sure.

Walter will agree with Harry, because that makes the game more interesting. There was already a GE roll of 16 on this a couple posts back, so I already know how that search is going to go. Just because I know what the search reveals doesn't mean that how it's done is unimportant.

I think John II might have made a serious mistake: let him ask in faith without wavering. That is, if he is going to ask God whether it worked, that's a direct expression of doubt, a lack of faith, and a penalty on whether it will have worked in the first place. However, he does require me to figure out whether it would work under these conditions. He wants a blessing that will prevent the frame from being damaged by the blast; that sounds to me like a sort of harden against blast change in the materials--such that it will not bend when the shell blasts, but will bend when he wants to secure the next shell. The spell would strengthen it such that if the damage roll for the blast is not greater than the success roll of the spell, no damage will be done to the frame or spear (except on a botch). That would be a M3@5 Pseudo-Transmute, which has a baseline time of 30:00 with an RS minutes duration. He wants the change to be permanent, but he doesn't need it to be so; he needs it to last several days, though, and that's going to cost. He also needs it to work based on 10:00 prayer, which means -13 for cutting in half and cutting another third. Six doublings of the duration will make roughly an hour (64:00), which is -60. Against this, he has +15 total body involvement, and +5 appropriate words, which means the internal sit-mod for this skill, for one spear, is -53, and there's -35 for the bias for learning it, and -10 for his clear expression of doubt -98 total.

We put this we put his 2@2 BRA+11@7 bias+15@ world bias+9 for religion+10 for alliance magic in an alliance world+10 for being on a divinely-appointed mission (an angel sent him, which is close enough to God for my purposes). That's 173 in his favor for learning it, 173-98=75% chance of success. He rolls 43, which is a success on the first spear, 1@1 Strengthen Object Against Blast M+3@6 kneel and pray appropriate words with hands folded, 10:00TF, success roll is threshold of damage roll of blast that can be withstood undamaged by object strengthened, -53SM. However, the second spear has no chance of success, I think--or at least, I need to crunch the numbers afresh, because now he is doing a skill he already knows. His 2@2 BRA+2x11@ bias+1@1 SAL+9 for religion+10 for alliance+10 for mission-10 for doubt=74-53=21% chance of the second skill working (considerably better than I'd anticipated), and his roll is 38, the second spell does not work.

He still needs to describe how he is going to ask God about the success or failure of the skill, so we'll deal with that next time.

Adam is going to teach Geneice the basics of his religion. His religion is very basic as it is, 1@1 SAL, but his teaching ability is strong and so is her learning ability. 24 is a success, but it reflects an investment of considerable time. I don't have a religion SAL for Geneice, but she's probably a below average amateur Roman Catholic. This is going to lead to a very difficult discussion. Also, it's not as if Adam is expert in his faith--he's not going to overwhelm her with his knowledge of such matters. I'll have to be careful playing Geneice. On the one hand, she's heavily indoctrinated in the Catholic doctrine; on the other hand, she's an amateur, and doesn't understand most of what she thinks she believes. I don't know that Adam wants this discussion in the midst of the teaching session, but he's got two days during which he will either convert Geneice to his faith or strengthen her in her own--after I see his arguments, I'll modify a persuasion versus will power contest to suit.

Graeme is also in the midst of discussion, and learning quite a bit that might help him with the puzzle.

I'm going to get John I to do the legwork of recounting the rules of the game, that is, the fight he is having with Ishara, rather than trying to put it all together myself.

With that, I've supper to serve and more to do elsewhere.

--M. J. Young

Why is it a lower chance of success for something that I've already done? That's like saying it's easier to knit the first time you do it, and it gets harder the next time.

John, we'll take up your question in the new thread Beginner's Luck.

I'm a bit worn tonight, but let's push forward. Andrew, John II, Adam, Graeme, and John I are tonight's guests.

Andrew is continuing his routine, but running out of time.

John II wants his angel to volunteer information; first, though, he has to do this spell successfully. Also, there is some confusion; I'll have to clarify it.

I'm keeping the conversation going with Adam and Geneice, because I want to give him the chance to persuade her or to change his mind. It will be interesting to see where this religious disagreement takes them.

Graeme asks an excellent question, and exactly the sort of question his informant will find shocking.

All right, it's time for me to establish some parameters for Ishara, as his sparring with John I begins. I already have some key numbers:

MSV 2@7
Bod BRA 2@9
Bod bias 7@

He will know a fast aggressive punch style. I have four of these already designed. I will eliminate Von Dom and Weissgarten Variant because they are weapon utilizing and thus limited to two attacks. As betweeen Teraka and Mitzu Frenzy, the latter hits harder and has a few very effective tactical maneuvers that would appeal to Ishara. I'll thus go with that. He will have:

• 2@8 Mitzu Frenzy B7@1 fast aggressive weapon-adverse punch Att x3 +5 att SM +10 Att dam mod -5 def SM
• 2@6 Fake B7@2
• 2@4 Solid Punch B7@3
• 2@2 Power Punch B7@3
• 2@1 Stunning Strike B7@7
• 2@1 Blinding Strike B7@7

His chance of activating the style is 71%, if he's not doing it as an attack. He rolls 23.

--M. J. Young

It looks to me like we've got some really good games going here, with Andrew, Harry, John II, Adam, Graeme, and John I, not to mention me.

Andrew is trying to beat the volcano, and his efforts are valiant; he's doubled his workload to attempt to do this. He also keeps getting good GE rolls--9 this time, which will forestall the volcano long enough for him to find what he seeks. His raft building efforts require skill checks: 88 fails, 62 fails, and with a 0@25 world tech bias, 2@1 BRA, and 1@1 SAL, 35 also fails, and 40, 61, 66, 80--a week's worth of efforts.

Harry continues his search, unsuccessfully.

John II rolls 81 on his effort to learn this new skill--but it's not hopeless. The skill would be Communicate with Deity M+7@7 10:00 TF kneeling with hands folded by bed, appropriate words asking questions, 5:00 worth of answers concurrent with second half of prayer, +30SM, and he's got his 11@7 bias, 2@2 BRA, 15@ world bias, +9 religion, +10 alliance world bonus, +10 quest bonus, and a 1@1 example for the similar skill he's already learned, against the 7@7 bias of the new skill and -10 penalty for lack of faith. It's a 137% chance of success, so he has this new skill at 1@3.

Meanwhile, 25 is a solid success for the mind reading, which is all he can do; 25 is a bad GE roll for what he can learn.

Adam versus Geneice in a comparitive persuasion against will power check, and Adam rolls 37, which is not going to fly so her will power check doesn't matter.

Graeme continues his fascinating and informative conversation.

John I rolls 52 on getting into style; 2@4 BRA+2x10@ bias+2@3 SAL makes that an easy and comfortable success. Interestingly, both styles spend points on damage modifiers, which will not be useful in the present combat. He does not have style recognition, although he does have attack analysis. He can't use it until he's seen at least one attack, though.

--M. J. Young

Harry, John II, Adam, and Graeme are today's players.

Harry continues his search for a while.

John II wraps up his conversation with God and turns his attention back to the practical problems.

Adam has come to a resolution with Geneice, and I think we'll increase his religion SAL to 1@2 while marking hers now at 1@5.

Graeme has some questions for the gods, I think.

--M. J. Young

I have Andrew returning, along with Harry, Edward, John II, and Adam.

Andrew is doing something with the bamboo I don't think you can do with bamboo, but I'll give him the chance to defend his viewpoint. However, he's also going to swim and dig, swim and dig--36 on the swim, 57 on the knife use, which in this low bias world is not going to work for a 1@5 SAL.

Harry has overlooked the fact that he's already mostly solved the case. If he can persuade the police that they need to find this girl, the police have a much better chance of finding a known troublemaker than they do.

Edward is playing it by ear, and so am I, so for the moment we're going to have to take a step back and see whether either of us can hear the music.

I probably should just move John II to the palace gate, but then I don't want to rush him if he has something else he wants to do first.

I'm going to ask Adam to flesh out his classwork a bit, so I have a better image of how he is approaching these skills. Magic is distinctly different from psionics, with different dangers and different advantages. Let's see what he does.

I think I am finished here for tonight.

--M. J. Young

I find myself hopping from one thing to another. Let me try to get focused on Andrew, then Harry, then Edward, then John II, then Adam, then John I--I'm becoming unfocused already.

Whether Andrew is teaching himself a new skill or using one he knows will make a difference to his chance of success, so let me float the question his direction.

I think that Harry should be able to settle this by telling the police of the involvement of Miranda--but I should include a GE roll on that. 16 is neutral result, so they're not going to release their prisoner as soon as her name is mentioned, but they are going to investigate that.

I'm going to once again nudge control of the story back toward Edward. It is not, of course, the story I'd expected would be told, but it's an interesting story all the same, and he might have some ideas of where to take it.

John II gets a 19 GE roll. That's going to create some minor problems, but won't be thwarting.

In response to Adam's teaching, Geneice rolls 01 on her first magic skill, and so adds 1@1 Receive Assurance M1@1 One minute of prayer asking confirmation that St. Paul is listening, eyes closed, grants inner assurance. Adam advances to 1@2 in the similar skill. The next skill has a few complications. First, she has no holy symbol; it occurred to me that the unspecified jewelry in the box given to her by Adam might include such a thing, but a GE of 26 says it doesn't. Assuming it works, the skill will be Bonus Nature-based Magical Attacks M+1@4 raise holy symbol with either hand while saying "We have tried to make peace with brothers, they refuse and want bloodshed, grant me God's power to call upon His subjects the Sun and the Sky to grant me powers of nature strike down with the force of your anger. Paul, grant my prayer, and let the Sun and Sky grant me the power over nature itself, and strike upon our enemies, with the power of primal fury", will only work if an effort at settlement has been attempted, SM=RS/5 for all magical attacks which rely on natural elements, RS minutes effect. +5SM. But we'll have to get the holy symbol problem settled before we can roll--if she has no such holy symbol, we'll have to redesign the skill.

John I certainly gets credit for innovative solutions, although in truth he's not the first player in my games to attempt to use psionics in a martial arts battle when he is uncertain of his ability to win. The roll is 50, and he's got a 2@3 BRA, but he's never lifted anything this heavy (other than himself) so he's going to have to do this as a skill learning check. His bias is 7@4, he's got no example or anything else to help him, but this is a targeted attack on a person. That means he also gets his 1@8 RSV, and +15 for the world psi bias, but that it goes against the 4@3 targeted skill bias and Ishara's defensive value which will be his 2@3 TV--and Ishara gets a resistance save to fight it. The positives come to 130, the negatives to 66, and that means the 50 is a good roll; it's not 51, so it's a simple check against a 2@7 resistance, 6+20=26, a solid success.

Meanwhile, John rolls 01 on steal initiative; it's a skill Ishara does not have weaponless, so John has the initiative.

--M. J. Young

John II is first on today's lineup, followed by Adam and John I.

John II has asked that I not tell him whether his prayer worked until it matters. That's easy to do--I just don't roll it until then. However, I should at least construct the ritual, so I have a basis for determining whether or not it works when it comes.

That he is keeping his right hand on the 9mm and his attention on the room means that there is little body involvement in this prayer--and he did not specify that there was any. The spoken component is "God, please, bless the shotgun shells so that they will only detonate when striking a demon, or any other servant of Satan, or inanimate objects. I offer myself as the first test of this. I won't stay dead, Pedro will. However, I pray in faith that you will grant this to me. I will admit I am nervous about it. Perhaps my faith isn't as strong as it should be. But I ask in faith that you grant what I am asking. In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I pray, Amen." The object being enspelled cannot be the material component; there are, however, a few quirks that have to be considered. One of them is whether he is creating a magic device or simply putting a temporary charm on something--and I'll go with the latter, since the former does not seem his intent and is an extremely difficult skill. Another is exactly what he is charming. These would indicate different levels of difficulty, because if he is charming one thing or one thing to charm another or many things are all a bit different. I see +5 for appropriate words, -10 for single element.

There is a second skill here, to communicate to Pedro, but I'm going to hold off on that one.

Adam makes a cogent argument that a young Italian Roman Catholic would have a piece of religious jewelry, and I buy it sufficiently to give him a GE roll for that (and he's right--the other roll was specifically for whether there was such an item among the undescribed jewelry he gave her, so it would not apply to whether she had such an item among her personal possessions before they married). 16 is a no-effect roll, and his argument is sufficient to say that such a woman would have one as the default, so she has it.

Her learning roll is 68, which means I'm going to have to check on her ability to learn magic skills when taught by Adam. We have a 1@1 bias now, thanks to the learning of the other skill, +8 for religion, +2@5 BRA, +3@5 teaching SAL, +13 for half the instructor's 2@6 BRA, a 1@3 SAL example, and +15 for the world bias, all against a 1@4 skill, which is an easy success, 1@2 Bonus Nature-based Magical Attacks M+1@4 raise holy symbol with either hand while saying "We have tried to make peace with brothers, they refuse and want bloodshed, grant me God's power to call upon His subjects the Sun and the Sky to grant me powers of nature strike down with the force of your anger. Paul, grant my prayer, and let the Sun and Sky grant me the power over nature itself, and strike upon our enemies, with the power of primal fury", will only work if an effort at settlement has been attempted, SM=RS/5 for all magical attacks which rely on natural elements, RS minutes effect. +5SM. His skill advances to 1@4.

The cure skill would be Limited Damage Cure M2@1 1:00 prayer to Paul while holding holy symbol and mentioning Jesus' healings. The roll is 89, so her SAL is also 1@3.

Adam wants to use some poison ivy or similar toxin for a disease; it's on the line between poison and disease, but I'll give him that it's a disease. The problem is whether he can find such a plant. He has a 16 GE roll, and has to deal with the question of whether Merlin would have cleared such nuisance plants from the areas in which he lives and works.

John I has another notion: create a P10@1 force wall around his target so that the man is trapped. This avoids the problem of Ishara resisting the power, but it gives the man a different escape. First, though, is whether it works. John's bias is 7@4; the target skill is 10@1. He gets +15 for the world bias, and his BRA is 2@3. That gives him an 11% chance to do this, which is pretty slim, unless he has something in his favor he's not mentioned. I'll wait for his response before rolling.

--M. J. Young

*blink* *blink*

Is it just me, or did something change on this site since last July? :p

Be glad you didn't come in last month. It used to be green.

But hey, on that note, welcome back! I've still got your jewels, in case you were wondering.

Oh yeah!! Hey, Oak, how's it going? I don't know if you were there for this, but I really went nuts over the money The Architect left. I'm sorry about that. I'm 2 worlds later, and I realize what an ass I was. (I mean I just traded a ring that cost me $200 for a 10 pound block of pure gold and 10 pounds of pure silver.) Man, too bad you can't do that in real life....

Scott, that was so we could all say to each other, "It's green," and wink knowingly that we are so deeply immersed in geek culture that we know that reference.

Andrew opens, and Edward, and then John Oakmaster--who is John III in our system (and too bad John Mastick didn't post, or we'd have all four Johns at once), and then John II, Adam, and John I. Good to have you back, John. And no, Harry, I am not calling you John.

Having listed a skill for Andrew, I now have to roll for it: 53 is not going to work in this low tech bias. And finally I get a 20 GE roll, so things are going to start happening.

Edward wants to find out whence Godzilla came, and do something about whoever's responsible, but doesn't want to raise a rebellion. That will be interesting.

John III rolls 06 on making a quarterstaff. I see he already has a 1@1 Make Striking Weapons T3@1 skill, so he's made another.

I don't think I can give John II full body involvement for sitting while praying, even if he says he has to be sitting. That's stretching the point a bit too much. I will give him both hands and points for head bowed and eyes closed, +8 for commitment of both hands, head, and eyes closed. If he is blessing all of the shells, though, that's going to be a bit of a burden. As for the length of the prayer, he is praying until something interrupts him, and an 18 GE roll is not favorable but very near the middle, so he'll have a good stretch of time.

Adam also pulls an 18 GE roll, in his hope of finding Poison Ivy nearby.

John I rolls 79 on his attempt to teach himself psionic force field creation. Not happening. I suppose Ishara ought to move at this point, but I'll hold that for next time.

--M. J. Young

I really ought to try that psionic forcefield thing. Isn't that a 10@1 skill?

Scott, that was so we could all say to each other, "It's green," and wink knowingly that we are so deeply immersed in geek culture that we know that reference.

ROFL!!! :)

Andrew opens, and Edward, and then John Oakmaster--who is John III in our system (and too bad John Mastick didn't post, or we'd have all four Johns at once), and then John II, Adam, and John I. Good to have you back, John.

Many thanks! It is good to be had... :p

But hey, on that note, welcome back! I've still got your jewels, in case you were wondering.

Many thanks! Just FedEx 'em right on over, 'k? ;)

Oh yeah!! Hey, Oak, how's it going? I don't know if you were there for this, but I really went nuts over the money The Architect left. I'm sorry about that.

No worries -- I saw which way the wind was going to blow, and made certain that I had already safely taken refuge with the (relatively safer) Men In Black before the storm broke... :p

No worries -- I saw which way the wind was going to blow, and made certain that I had already safely taken refuge with the (relatively safer) Men In Black before the storm broke... :p

So you say, but I think we all remember who versed out first.

It starts with a brief word from Harry, then counting down a detailed post from John III, two from John II, and finally John I.

Harry has solved his mystery, and the ship now will resume its journey. It will have cost them an extra day, but that's not bad in the scheme of things.

For John III's healing prayers I'm going to need more information. For his construct long bow and make arrows skills, it's pretty straightforward, and he certainly has people available to show him how it's done. For a computer scientist, 87 is a successful roll for 1@3 Make Bow T2@1, and a roll of 92 is going to give him 1@3 Make Arrows T3@1.

John II is attempting to enspel 44 shotgun shells and one spear. Also, he has made some statements that are going to get him into trouble if he doesn't correct them.

Since John I wants to review his character sheet for his next actions, and I have that sheet here and he is visiting us today, I'll print a copy for him and let him review it before taking the next move.

--M. J. Young

Harry, Edward, John III, John II, and Adam are waiting, and I think I have enough time to reach them all.

Harry returns to routine, and all's quiet for a while.

Edward has a plan, and it's a good one, although I envision it taking him in some unanticipated directions.

I think I'm ready to crunch the numbers for John III's prayers. The first is a one-hour preparatory bonus to healing skill, something in a M+1@4 bonus checks. The baseline says 1:00 TF, RS minutes duration, RS/5 bonus to skill checks for groups of related skills possibly all mag skills. We will limit it to magic healing skills, giving +10 for that limitation. If the duration is RSx15 minutes and the TF is 1:00:00, that means that we're going to increase the TF sixty times but the duration 60/4 times, and we can set these against each other such that there are two more doublings of the TF than there are of the duration, a cumulative difference of +20 to his chance of success. He specifies appropriate words +5, singing +3, and since he reads from the bible he must have a Bible in a language he can read, +5. That makes the internal sit-mod +43. There is no doubt that someone with a 12@ bias can learn a 1@ skill if there aren't serious penalties, and in this case it's all bonuses, so the roll is merely to find the SAL: 37 means 1@1 Bonus Healing Magic M+1@4 RS/5 bonus to all magic healing skills performed in the next RSx15 minutes, requires reading aloud from a bible and singing and praying with appropriate words for 1:00:00, +43SM. This first time his bonus lasts eight and a quarter hours, and provides +8 on his chance of success on all such skills in that time.

I need, however, to know how many sick people they will visit today, so I know how many times he is going to attempt this healing skill. The roll is six; that's an incredibly good GE roll, so I think I'll have to talk with him about this.

John II is giving me grief about having to say what he means and mean what he says when he prays. I'm going to respond in kind. I'm also going to roll to see how long he spends in prayer, and with an 18 GE roll I'll make it half an hour. I don't know whether that's sufficient to bless all forty-five objects in the manner he requests, but I don't need to know until he does something with them.

Adam gets a smile from me, but I'm still concerned about whether he is protected against the poison ivy he intends to use to infect Geneice.

Sorry this took so long. It seems that my computer clock keeps jumping an hour, and I can't figure why (unless--could it be correcting itself to some online clock? that would be particularly irritating). Thus I thought I had more time before church than I actually had, and when I realized it I had to run.

It also didn't help that my help changed the dinner plans and then ran out on me. It's really messed up my week royally, and I probably will have a lot of other problems because of that. But then again, you can't complain about free help or you get no help. Even so, had I known he wasn't going to make dinner, I'd have made it myself.

Rant off.

--M. J. Young

John II is giving me grief about having to say what he means and mean what he says when he prays. I'm going to respond in kind.

Sorry MJ. Like I keep saying. I'm still learning, so bear with me whilst I learn. Your explaination made sense, and I won't question you about it again. Or at least I'll try not to.

Where are we? We have Andrew, Harry, Edward, John III, John II, and Adam all active.

Given the 20 GE roll he just had, Andrew needs an incredibly good roll simply to forestall the inevitable a little while; 22 is certainly not that roll. He needs another GE roll to determine how he dies--well, maybe not exactly, but pretty close. 21 says it's not pretty, although it could be a lot worse.

Harry is discovering Moon of Korg; there are some interesting things to discover, and if he survives to return he might do well to make some purchases here.

Edward is getting ready to leave. Let's speed the process. I've got a 16 GE roll on the return trip, so I'm going to skip over the details.

Working from an incredibly good GE roll of 6 and John III's preference for more people being healed, I'll give him a dozen sick. Now we have to work out the curative itself. We've agreed that he spends fifteen minutes with each, which is 50% longer than the base time, so he gets +5 for that. We have appropriate words +5, singing +3, second hand +3, oil +1. His first roll is 42, which gives him 1@1 Cure Disease M+2@4 sing while caring for sick, anoint with oil, lay both hands on them and pray for final minute, 15:00TF, +12SM. He also has half his 2@3 religion SAL for +12, the alliance bonus for +10, a 2@2 BRA, and twice the world area bias, which is lower than his at 7@, so +14. Further, he is working at +8 on all healing skill checks for several hours thanks to his preparatory period. His chance of successfully healing anyone is 67%, and he has eleven more rolls to make: 21, 66, 30, 10, 33, 07, 53, 51, 75, 72, 62. That's a good track record. He had good odds, and he beat them.

John II gets a description of setting, and a question about an ability he thinks he has.

I'm not going to quibble about whether poison ivy is a disease. Technically it's an allergic reaction to an irritating oil, and so is closer to a poison. However, there's no reason why a cure disease spell wouldn't affect it (an allergic reaction is, after all, an immune response), so on a roll of 28 Geneice learns 1@1 Cure Any Disease M+2@4 2:30TF prayer to Paul for healing, which I note (having just done a cure disease skill) should have -20 for two halvings of the ten minute TF, +5 for appropriate words, -10 for single aspect (spoken), which means -25 chance of success overall. That's not going to prevent her from learning it, given the bonuses in her favor, but it's going to be noted on the papers for future reference. Adam's SAL increases to 1@2.

She rolls 24 for the next skill, and so adds 1@1 Dig M3@6 20:50:75:100:+1/1 yards provided that the initial starting point of the dig is in sight, Casting Time: 1 Minute, upon completion of ritual caster may move up to 4000 cubic feet of ordinary mixed dirt in ten parts over the course of 1 minute, volume equivalent to approximately ten metric tons; denser or less dense earth may be moved in quantities adjusted according to estimated equivalent weight, can be attempted not more than once in six hours, hold shovel in both hands, say "Move this earth with the power of the arcane" in Latin, "Permoveo is terra per vox of ianus", permits movement of dirt from one place to another within range. User has control of the shape of the excavation and the point of deposit of the dirt. It cannot penetrate artificial rock such as asphalt or concrete. It can be used to compress the targeted material rather than shifting it, compressing dirt into soft stone, mud into a adobe-like brick, and soft stone to harder stone. Hard stone cannot be compacted +93SM.

Adam's SAL increases to 1@3.

I'm going to tackle some other problems now.

--M. J. Young

I was skimming the math for John III and 67 seemed low; when I went back and added your numbers I got 89. Granted, there's not much difference between ten nameless extras being cured and all twelve, but I thought I'd mention that.

Actually, that brings up an issue I've wondered about idly from time to time. Is holy magic intended to be more effective than arcane magic? It is, in the main. The modifiers for affiliation are balanced - variable effectiveness of holy magic vs. unchanging effectiveness of arcane magic - but there's no arcane counterpart to the bonus for Religion SAL. In addition, there are explicit penalties on arcane magic built into the skill trees (-40 on new arcane curatives, -10 (I think) on all arcane creation ex nihlio), but no corresponding penalties on holy magic. All the penalties inherent in the skill descriptions specific to holy magic are also specific by affiliation and are balanced by bonuses for the opposite affiliation.

The only possible counterbalance to the Religion bonus that comes to mind is the possibility of deity-specific penalties for certain skill uses in certain circumstances - but isn't that already balanced by the potential for bonuses when the deity approves (either directly, as with the penalties, or through the questing bonuses)? I suppose I'm wondering why wizards bother if holy magic works better.

Wodium - Do you think it would balance arcane magic a bit to have a skill like Hermetic Studies, Alchemy, or Wizardry to provide a bonus to casting similar to the Religion skill?

I'm taking the magic question to its own thread, Arcane versus Holy Magic. Meanwhile, I've got more players than I can manage quickly--Andrew, Harry, John III, John II, and Adam.

Andrew has not yet fully appreciated the complete madness of his companion.

Harry is not entirely clear in his intentions.

It seems I have to recheck my numbers on John III's healings, but Scott didn't say where he thinks I made my mistake. Let me bring everything back:

+5 TF
+5 appropriate words
+3 singing
+1 oil
=+14

+12 religion SAL
+10 alliance bonus
+22 BRA
+14 bias
+8 bonus
+11 SAL
=77

=91

So it appears we were both wrong. I miscalculated the sit-mod on the skill and forgot to include the SAL in my addition. That means he healed all twelve.

I'm going to take his new prayer for guidance to be a repeat of 1@1 Request Divine Guidance M+7@7 10:00 TF requires extended reading aloud from a Bible, statement of need, both hands, answers what to do now, details in post 10 of An Unfamiliar Familiar Forest, +28SM, and a roll of 22 is certainly successful. Now, how do I convey something, without taking control of the game? I think I've got it.

John II is trying to get information that is outside his knowledge. I'm trying to avoid calculating the odds until he uses the thing--because I have nowhere to record the information except here, and he does not want me to record it here, so I cannot calculate it until he does it. Since whether Pedro knows is part of the prayer, I don't know whether Pedro knows, and I won't until push comes to shove and the odds are calculated and the dice rolled. Sorry, John. You can't have it both ways. Either we all know, or I don't.

Well, I forgot I rolled, and I rolled again, and I guess Adam can be grateful that I realized that I rolled already--although I think even the 100 I rolled would not be a botch in this case. We'll suffice it that she learned it, they had this conversation, and they are moving forward. I'll introduce more conversation so that I can ignore the roll.

I'm also going to wrap up my night. I've a worse day tomorrow than I anticipated, and if I get an hour of sleep tonight it will be more than I expect.

--M. J. Young

MJ, I think you misunderstand me. Whether or not Pedro knows my plan to use the boom stick as a demon detector has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not it will actually work. It's two completely different prayers.

Prayer 1) Make my boom sticks only harmful to demons.

Prayer 2) let Pedro know the plan.

Pedro knowing the plan doesn't tell me if it will actually work, so you can still calculate it and roll for it. Besides, you couldn't calculate the odds of success on the boom stick prayer even if I wanted you to. I'm still praying it, remember? You don't know how long I will be praying. I could see that going on for hours.

Bible, singing, appropriate words aloud, two-handed gestures, total time of around fifteen minutes.

I'm going to take his new prayer for guidance to be a repeat of 1@1 Request Divine Guidance M+7@7 10:00 TF...

I'm not complaining about the results... but this brings up an interesting issue.

We previously touched upon the concern that my non-repetitive manner of prayer and petition would result in a character sheet with a large number of variations of similar low level skills, and noted that it might work better to have a more generic description of what I do (rather than what exact words I say, etc.).

However, in this case, I petitioned for fifteen minutes, whereas my existing skill bonuses were based upon petitioning for ten minutes... correct? (I think that is what "TF" means...)

What if I had petitioned for twenty minutes, or for an hour, or for five minutes, or for one minute? The skill bonus would be different, wouldn't it?

So what is the best way to handle such cases?

1. Should it still be the same skill, but with the bonus awarded depending upon what I do during that specific attempt?
2. Or should it be a new skill every time I do something different enough to change the bonus ("oops, I could only use one hand this time, so it is a new skill")?
3. Or should each different version be a new use of the same skill, and bump up my SAL? :D

 
From what little I know of the rules, I suspect that (1) makes the most sense, (2) is closer to what the rules say, and (3) is the most useful interpretation for me... :p

What do you think is best?

I've gone through this with MJ in the past (I have a dozen spells to change the colour of a scarf). If you change the description of the spell, it's a new skill not a new use. As you get better (i.e. 2@) then the TF is halved so you can't play around with that.

You can't just mess around with magic formulas...

Oak, since your fifteen minutes here was approximate (I assume - you don't have a functioning timepiece that I'm aware of), I think MJ just decided that you were using the old skill rather than inventing a new one, and thus your character got his answer in only ten minutes rather than in fifteen. If you really want to make a new skill based on this sort of minute distinction in the future, I'd recommend being explicit about that in order to avoid this kind of re-interpretation - but given that your character currently has no clue about the difference between new prayer skills and old ones, you'd be on shaky ground if you tried to make that request.

No, I had no preference about what skill was being used per se for the move just past.

However, the point I am interested in is how best to handle such mechanics, given a character that will frequently use differing methods to petition for the same results.

When the MV rules were created, was it really intended that you should have to have a dozen different skills for changing the color of a scarf, just because the specifics of petitioning vary?

BTW, I thought I would be hard pressed to find a term I disliked more than "magic" for the results of prayerful petitioning... until I was reminded of the use of the term "spells"... :(

Yeah, I'll go with what Scott said.

Honestly? It was late, and I knew that if I took the time to crunch the numbers on a new skill I'd be up at least fifteen to twenty minutes longer than necessary. I could have done something I almost always do at the table and almost never do on the forum--handed you this questionaire and had you fill it out while I dealt with other players

Multiverser® Magic Skills Worksheet

This sheet has been designed to facilitate the creation of magic skills by Multiverser® players during the course of the game. If the player will carefully consider the information below, it will be easier for the referee to determine exactly what the character is attempting to do, and how difficult it will be to do it. Answer the questions based on the character’s expectations concerning the magic to be used.

Is this arcane or holy magic, alliance, neutral, or anarch?

What exactly will the magic do?

What distances, sizes, areas, or quantities are involved?

Over what variables does the character have control?

What, if any, is the base damage category for the magic?

How long does it take to perform the ritual necessary for the spell?

How many times in a minute may an amateur cast it?

How long will the magic last?

Exactly what will the character say?

Must the words be spoken loudly or forcefully?

Are the words in a language other than the character’s native tongue?

Is the sound of the words vital to the magic, or will it work if the words are properly articulated within a place where there is no sound?

What does the character do?

Which body parts must be committed to this action?

Which body parts can be substituted if necessary for the ones normally used (e.g., left hand instead of right)?

Is the ritual physically exhausting?

What materials are required?

Which if any of these are destroyed or damaged beyond use during the ritual?

Are there any other limitations on the use of this skill?

(in other words, gotten your answers and given you the result today).

It just seemed to be the best use of time overall to assume that you were doing the same thing, and just weren't thinking about how long a time you were spending on it. That was quicker for me, quicker for you, and moved the game along faster. Since I didn't think you were too likely to fail either way, I went with that.

I think if you'd said twenty minutes, I'd have assumed you did the same skill twice; had you said five minutes, I would have created a new skill.

Now that we're all the way down here on the post, let me make my long player list of Andrew, Edward, John III, John II, Adam, and Graeme, and get to it.

I had had some hope that Carl would join Andrew, but that didn't happen so that's not what's going to happen. I actually have several of my favorite worlds running at the moment, and since I'll probably pick up new players at Ubercon I probably should shy from running any of the other worlds I usually run in the forum game, so now I've got to come up with a good world for this. I think I've got one, but not only have I never run it, I've not yet written it--I need to write it for publication, but let's give it a spin. He rolls 24 on a flexibility check, and since his flexibility is not going to be 2@5 (or he'd have mentioned it), we're going to assume he's still at stage one as he hits the ground in another world.

Edwardis going to catch one of his goths, which will be good because it will connect him to three important things: what Graeme was doing before the disaster, where Godzilla originated, and what happened to the army--maybe.

Since John III asked, I have concluded how the men would react to the reports of his early ministry.

John II wants to create two separate prayers, but he hasn't distinguished them. I need him to do that.

Adam has explained to Geneice some uses for the silence skill, and she rolls 82, which with all the bonuses will mean 1@3 Silence 15 radius M4@3 RF 1/360, Duration: 30 minutes, the person or object touched is the center of the silence radius, say Planto haud sanus, latin for make no sound, waving both arms, holding a Bell wrapped with twine makes noise inaudiable within the radius and prevents any noise generated within to be heard beyond it. The twine is destroyed in the casting. Especially loud noises such as gunshots will be heard as muffled sounds, and weapons doing sonic damage will take -DC, +1SM; he also improves to 1@3. Let's ask what happens if a tree falls in the forest.

I think I can answer most of Graeme's questions, although I'm not certain he'll like all the answers.

I'm good to go.

--M. J. Young

BTW, I thought I would be hard pressed to find a term I disliked more than "magic" for the results of prayerful petitioning... until I was reminded of the use of the term "spells"... :(

I'm with you Oak. For the purpose of the game, and out of respect for MJ, I will go along with it. However, I do not like it one bit!!!!!!!

*sigh* I'd really rather not get into yet another prayer-versus-magic debate on here. To be honest the offense everyone takes to the terms, offends me, because it's my belief (as apparently the only resident Pagan and witch) that there is no difference.

Can't we just agree that it's necessary to have a blanket term like that?

If you wanted to we could call all divine magic Prayer and be just as well off. In fact that would suit me just fine - reserving the term 'magic' and 'spells' for arcane magic and 'prayer' or 'petition' for divine. That would actually be fairly good and accurately in keeping with everybody's beliefs, wouldn't it? Same mechanics under different names?

(If you think about it, it's not even the same mechanics once you take into account Religion bonuses and bonuses for individual gods, but that's a different thread.)

That would work for me. Calling all Holy magic prayer, and all arcane magic spells would work for me. And I'm willing to allow the term prayer to be used to pray to ANY god. Be it Odin, Zeus, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, or even Satan himself. I mean it's still prayer, no matter what god it is done to, right?

If you wanted to we could call all divine magic Prayer and be just as well off. In fact that would suit me just fine - reserving the term 'magic' and 'spells' for arcane magic and 'prayer' or 'petition' for divine. That would actually be fairly good and accurately in keeping with everybody's beliefs, wouldn't it? Same mechanics under different names?

(If you think about it, it's not even the same mechanics once you take into account Religion bonuses and bonuses for individual gods, but that's a different thread.)

Two thumbs up!! :)

I realize that post doesn't quite sound right. Personally, I believe it is within the realm of possibility that all the gods of the world DO exist. Call them Angels In Training if you will. I believe it is possible that there is a god called Odin. For reasons that I do not want to go into right now, I believe that the God of Abraham is the boss, but I do believe it is possible that all the gods of the world do exist. That's why I have no problem with prayer being used, no matter what god it is done to. Just wanted to make that clear.

That would work for me. Calling all Holy magic prayer, and all arcane magic spells would work for me. And I'm willing to allow the term prayer to be used to pray to ANY god. Be it Odin, Zeus, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, or even Satan himself. I mean it's still prayer, no matter what god it is done to, right?

Exacto!

Does this settle this accursed debate once and for all?
If we say that a wizard Casts a Spell ( Arcane magic) and a cleric Prays a Prayer (Divine)?

Meh. D&D clerics cast spells. Arcane and holy magic are governed by the same bias area (it's not Spells&Prayers13@8, it's M13@8). But, since I'm one of the ones who's not caring, don't let me stop you from using whatever words you want in your own posts.

By the same token, though, I don't think I'll switch my own terminology any time soon. If the robed, bearded man starts muttering and shaking a gri-gri, I'm not going to give away the source of his power with the word "prayer;" the dude's casting a spell. If it matters to you whether he's got a god behind him or not, you'd better have a really fast divination skill handy (or perhaps an absolutely stellar intuition).

If the robed, bearded man starts muttering and shaking a gri-gri, I'm not going to give away the source of his power with the word "prayer;" the dude's casting a spell.

Why would you use either OOC mechanics term for an IC description, rather than the more appropriate "the robed, bearded man starts muttering and shaking a gri-gri"? :)

Speed and ease of communication in a chaotic or complicated circumstance, same reason I'd use "attacks" or "swings." I take your point, but I don't concede mine.

I usually just call them "magic skills". I know that some people have a lot of trouble with the notion that prayer might be a "skill", but since talking, seeing, reading, breathing, and holding your breath are all skills, I don't see any argument that will remove praying from the list.

As Scott says, there is an established tradition in role playing games to refer to the miraculous results of prayers and rituals of priests as "spells", and there's not a heck of a lot of reason to break that tradition. Further, assuming a sacramentalist view, is there a difference between the supernatural power that is released when the priest prays and the supernatural power that is released when the priest baptizes the convert? I think few people would say that baptism is the same as prayer, but at the same time few would say that they fall in entirely different categories relative to the fundamental concept, that supernatural power is released in the process.

Every word that might be used is objectionable to someone in some context. We attempted to use the most generic words we could.

Harry, I think Carl is of similar background/belief to you, but his appearance here has been sporadic. There may be/have been others; I would have to wade through a lot of inactive character sheets to be certain.

Andrew, Harry, John III, John II, and Adam are playing today.

We'll give Andrew a description of his location to start his thinking.

Harry wants to barter some Sakajawea fake gold dollars for some real gold diktar. His GE roll is 20, which does not favor him at all. He also will need information about ammunition, but I'll start with one thing at a time.

John III is going to get less information than he wants.

I'm not getting John II to understand the question. Maybe this time.

We'll turn our attention back to the next skills Adam will be teaching to Geneice.

Hey, I've got more time.

--M. J. Young

I've got quite a gathering for this probably final game session before the convention, with Andrew, then counting down John IV, John III, and John II, and winding up with Graeme. As mentioned in the Blogless Lepolt, I am making no promises as to whether I will be here tomorrow or Sunday this weekend, because of Ubercon.

I'm making some decisions about Andrew's situation in response to his questions. I'm trying to decide whether to give this person a name or not; the name that comes to me is connected to a character he would probably decide to avoid eventually, so that would be a waste of a name, really, unless it was for an unavoidable annoying person.

If anyone wants to know how to do a good solid long post, check out the one from John IV. He hit his stride, and got the knack of how to cover a lot of ground in one post without on the one hand inventing a lot of stuff that's outside his control or on the other hand making too many assumptions about the answers. That's how to make the game flow through events quickly.

I suppose I need to wonder whether the Big Five have actually gathered at one fire tonight or not, if John III wants to join them. It's possible that one or more of them are absent, or that they decided to split up and talk with the men more--and indeed, with a roll of 26, he's not going to find his group. That's easy enough to explain.

John II has decided to put ten minutes and folded hands and appropriate words into his prayer that Pedro will be told the plan--the rather complicated plan that seems to include that the boom sticks will be made to explode only if they are used to strike a demon or to strike an inanimate object as a demonstration of their power, and that he will make a rather dramatic statement that there are demons present, and that he wishes to use these boom sticks to test for them.

I think that's the plan, anyway. He rolls 15, which suggests whatever it is, it probably works, although I still have to do the number crunching so I can add this skill to the sheet.

The skill is a M+7@1 Concealed Messages, and it indicates that the TF should be twice the length of the message, and include the message within it. I think it's plausible for John to explain his plan inside five minutes, so the 10:00TF is baseline. That means +5 for appropriate words, +3 for folded hands, so it's 1@1 Secretly Communicate Plan to Associate M+7@1 pray quietly aloud with hands folded for 10:00, delivering a five minute explanation of an intended plan which will be heard by the one designated ally, +8SM.

Graeme gives me my laugh for the week, for certain. His Swiftness rolls 48 on a communicate with deity, which is going to give him solid information even against the penalties imposed against revealing this.

I will be back, Lord willing, eventually.

--M. J. Young