Two
And ya know what MJ? Sitting here, in my nice, cozy apartment, it would have been so easy for me to simply let my character let the bombs fall. I'm not in any danger. It's just a fictional version of me. What happens to him is inconsequential, really. It would have been so easy for me to just not warn them. I did. I am adamantly opposed to it. One thing you must give me credit for is accurate character portrayal.
Something you said that irked me. The idea that I would want to warn Pearl Harbor wasn't based on what you thought I would do, it was based on what you thought everyone else you know would do. How long is it going to take you to realize that I'm not like everyone else you know? The standard rules don't apply to me. It probably never once crossed your mind that there would be someone out there who WOULDN'T want to stop the bombing. That just kind of bugged me.
More than one
And yes, I think God wanted The Plague to happen. One of the many positive outcomes was that sanitation was implemented for the first time in history. Imagine what the world would be like if The Plague hadn't happened.
(Doing Therapy)
You know that the end result of Pearl Harbor being destroyed is that The United States goes on to ultimate victory and becomes a superpower. You stop the Pearl Harbor bombing. You have unquestionably changed the future of the world.
No, what I know is that the end result of Pearl Harbor being attacked is that the United States goes on to ultimate victory and becomes a superpower. I do not know that there is any reason why the base has to be destroyed. The outrage was that the Japanese dared to attack entirely without warning or notice (in a highly unsportsmanlike fashion). The damage they did was secondary. I think that Roosevelt already wanted an in, and that the surprise attack gave it to him. He could have gotten into the war just as surely if he had been able to say, "And it was only because our people were alert to the unannounced attack that the damage and death toll was not much higher."
I'm not talking about preventing the Japanese from attacking; I'm talking about mitigating the damage.
The idea that I would want to warn Pearl Harbor wasn't based on what you thought I would do, it was based on what you thought everyone else you know would do. How long is it going to take you to realize that I'm not like everyone else you know?
Everyone else I know is different from everyone else I know, John. A referee plays the percentages. If I think that ninety-nine out of a hundred people would do X, I bet the player would do X. If I think that four out of seven, or five out of nine, or fifty-one out of a hundred one would do X, I bet the player is more likely to do X unless I know something that suggests otherwise.
It is not wrong for me to assume that you would do what "everyone else" does. I would bet that as between breathing and allowing yourself to drown, you would choose to breath, like most people. I would bet that between walking through a fire and looking for a route around it, you would choose to go around it, like most people. I bet that most people will do what most people will do most of the time, and know that I am wrong some of the time because not everyone will do what everyone else will do. Now I know something. I know that I would have a very difficult time getting you to surrender to the CIA strike team assigned to capture a verser and bring him to British Intelligence to become a professional spy, and so if I run Why Spy for you it's probably going to be the variant in which the best spy agencies in the world are focused on finding and killing you, and they have the ability to detect the scriff in your body so you can't hide for long. I've never had to run that one, and it might be interesting to see how many professional hit men you can exterminate before one of them gets you.
--M. J. Young
No, what I know is that the end result of Pearl Harbor being attacked is that the United States goes on to ultimate victory and becomes a superpower
NO!!!!! You know the end result of Pearl Harbor being DESTROYED is that the United States wins WW2. You're not taking into account The Butterfly Effect. Pearl Harbor is warned and defends. So now The Arizona is in service and not the ship that was there when the war was won. God only knows what The Arizona crew would have done differently. They screw up. Captain makes a mistake. The Arizona is destroyed when the other ship won the conflict. What happens then? You know the end result of Pearl Harbor being DESTROYED is that The United States wins WW2.
I'm not upset in the slightest, just to be clear. I'm just trying to be clear.
I had this thought about how that should have played out. It's funny. Adam, thinking that I know about the attack, threatens to put me in This Place (that is going to be destroyed) I, oblivious to that, am not phased in the slightest. (Adam's thinking, "Well, that was kind of obscure. Maybe he didn't know that one.") So now Adam says "I'll lock you in the brig of The Arizona." (Adam's thinking. "Certainly he knows the best-known part of the attack") and I, oblivious to what's going to happen to The Arizona, am still completely unphased. MJ's thinking "He must be REALLY be dedicated to non-involvement." So Adam puts me in the brig of The Arizona, where I sit cool as a cucumber for 2 days. Completely oblivious to what's going to happen. You, thinking I know, think I must really be dedicated. The way it went was the only way you could have gotten accurate information.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
Too much meaningless drivel for MJ to sort through.
Three
An oft-overlooked effect of Pearl Harbor being bombed was the need to replace the destroyed equipment. Does the name "Rosie the Riveter" ring a bell? It was a major turning point in The Women's Liberation Movement. MJ, you of all people should be grateful to live in a world where it's socially acceptable for a wife to work whilst the man takes care of things at home.
(Doing Therapy)
John, I don't know a lot about Pearl Harbor on the ground, but I do know something about the political side of the matter. I know that Roosevelt was already looking for a way to get the United States into the war, but public opinion was against him. I also know that when he addressed Congress to get a declaration of war, the the speech wasn't really focused on how much damage had been done or how many lives were lost, but on the unconscionable unprovoked unannounced attack itself. Everyone was upset because the rules of war still required that you issue a declaration of war before you attack so that the other side has time to prepare. A surprise attack was a violation of the terms of civility between nations.
So the war would have come even had they been ready to defend.
Might the Arizona have done something that cost the war? Or perhaps had the United States not lost so much of the Pacific Fleet would we have pushed harder to settle the Pacific Theater first and then gone after the Germans, giving them time to finish their rockets and maybe their hydrogen bombs? Hard to say, really. But then, even had you not warned them and I were running it, your unexplained appearance would have caused me to turn to general effects rolls.
- Commander, we found this man on the beach with some kind of vehicle filled with weapons of several types we cannot identify and a large supply of ammunition. We believe he was to meet an underground cell and launch an attack here; he is refusing to offer any adequate explanation of himself.
Thank you, captain. Put the base on full alert; until we know who this man's confederates are, I want to be watchful for anything and everything. Oh, and get the ships out of the harbor patrolling.
Now it is you who forgets the butterfly effect: just because you don't intentionally change anything doesn't mean you haven't changed everything simply by appearing.
--M. J. Young
Commander, we found this man on the beach with some kind of vehicle filled with weapons of several types we cannot identify and a large supply of ammunition. We believe he was to meet an underground cell and launch an attack here; he is refusing to offer any adequate explanation of himself.
Thank you, captain. Put the base on full alert; until we know who this man's confederates are, I want to be watchful for anything and everything. Oh, and get the ships out of the harbor patrolling.
Now it is you who forgets the butterfly effect: just because you don't intentionally change anything doesn't mean you haven't changed everything simply by appearing.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! You just explained how I was forced to get involved!!!!!! I can't even do that if NOBODY KNOWS I'M THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh MJ!!! Thank you!!!!! I was involved without doing anything to warn them. Even if I didn't warn them, I still changed history. JUST BEING THERE WAS INVOLVED!!!!!! Do you see now??????? If no MP sees me, I have no possibility of changing history. Just being there changed history. Changing history is being involved. If no one sees me, I can't even unintentionally be involved.
Just so you know, I'm really excited. Not upset.
EDITING!! I've calmed down. Now you see why I felt forced to get involved. The mere presence of a heavily armed individual on a secure military base would be cause for alarm. I've got a pistol in a caliber known to be used by the Germans, an assault rifle with Russian markings in an unknown caliber, and enough ammo to sustain a small strike force. Even my name, Cross, used to be Kraus once upon a time. I'm German descent. You're going to sit there and tell me that my mere presence there wouldn't change history?
Hell, just giving the Americans a prototype of the AK-47 six years before it was invented would cripple Russia's economy forever. You just explained how the MP opening forces the player to get involved. If they can leave without being seen, there's no possibility of even that much involvement.
Just an anecdote. The Israeli (Jewish) made Uzi sub-machine gun fires 9mm bullets. The 9mm was invented by the Nazis. See? You can get Jews and Nazis to work well together.
(Doing Therapy)
Too much meaningless drivel
(Doing Therapy)
But still interesting, so I saved it for later.
(Doing Therapy)
John, again we are failing to communicate because you are using one set of definitions and I am using another.
When I said I wanted to know whether you would stick to a non-involvement policy, what I meant was, Will John take intentional intelligent steps to change history at Pearl Harbor, or will he make an intentional intelligent effort to avoid making changes, consistent with his non-involvement policy?
I was not in the least interested in the question of whether your presence would change events at Pearl Harbor; of course they would. I was interested in whether you perceiving where you were would actively involve yourself in that history or whether you would passively sit and watch the bombs fall.
So the butterfly effect means nothing to what I wanted to know; it only means something to what you want to know.
--M. J. Young
<SARC> Ya know MJ, you've been right all along. The MP opening worked to test non-involvement. After all, I warned Pearl Harbor. Nevermind the fact that fact that no one had a good time playing the world because of that opening, or that you have since spent hundreds of hours dealing with it. That Adam and I have been at each others throats ever since is totally inconsequential, as is the fact that it screwed with my psychosis on this level. By gum, you found out I wasn't dedicated to non-involvement. Adam obviously did the RIGHT thing. </SARC>
Contrary to old wives tales, the ends don't always justify the means. Why don't you think about what in the hell you're saying once in a while???????
(Doing Therapy)
Two
Might the Arizona have done something that cost the war? Or perhaps had the United States not lost so much of the Pacific Fleet would we have pushed harder to settle the Pacific Theater first and then gone after the Germans, giving them time to finish their rockets and maybe their hydrogen bombs? Hard to say, really.
What I'm saying is: Why take the chance? We know without question that if Pearl Harbor is destroyed, the US goes on to win the war. Why even take the chance of any of this happening just to save a few people who will die and be remembered as heroes? Why risk it, when we know the results of the bombing are that the US wins?
And I said that until I was one of the people who would die. At least you must give me credit for accurate character portrayal.
If you had at least sent me to Dancing Princess BEFORE sending me to Pearl Harbor, none of this would have happened. I would have found out what a flatline psionics bias was BEFORE I would be tempted to use my new-found psionics to harass the most hated of all humans. Awesome psionic powers that can be taken away don't mix with cocky guys who hate cops.
three
too much meaningless drivel.
It's been an hour since you finished the other side, so I guess you're not going to reply. Not surprised. I'm really sorry. I just go through these phases where I get so frustrated by that. Then time like this, where I severely regret it. Like I told you, just roll with it. I'm going to try very hard not to come back to this forum.
"It has to end here."
The Terminator, Terminator 2.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
MJ, I'm not certain you understood what I was saying when I said that being there changed history was being forced to get involved. That was an incredibly important event in history. I don't want there to be any chance at all of my presence changing history. Being on the grounds of Pearl Harbor 2 days before the attack was too involved for me. I don't want any chance of me changing history there. If my mere presence causes the base to go on alert and the attack is blown, I would be responsible for the repercussions, no matter how much not my fault. Regardless of intent, the result is the same. Now if I was given a chance to try my damnedest to get off the base unseen, THEN I was given the chance to not change history. You would call that "Being Involved." Being on the grounds was too involved for me. I don't think you understood that when I said "Being there was being forced to be involved."
You said "Being Involved" was taking intentional steps to change history. I say "Changing History" is being involved. At least in that particular case. I can't "Change History" at all if I get off the base unseen.
(Doing Therapy)
Three
And that would tell you how dedicated to non-involvement I was. I was dedicated enough to hide and evade guards and avoid being captured for 2 days before finally escaping during the attack. Maybe that doesn't tell you if I'm totally dedicated, but it does give you some clues.
(Doing Therapy)
Four
MJ, I'm not certain you understand. I WANT PEARL HARBOR TO BE DESTROYED!!!!!!!! That's the only way we can be certain of the United States victory. Say whatever you want, all we really know for certain is that in the history where Pearl Harbor was destroyed, The United States won WW2. You can "What If" this thing until the cows come home, but you would never be CERTAIN of the results if it isn't destroyed. If my mere presence causes the base to go on alert such that they are ready for the attack, in the words of Doctor Emmett Brown "I may have seriously altered history." That's why I keep saying that the only thing which would constitute non-involvement would be leaving unseen. That's the only way we can be certain I don't change history in any way, shape or form. Do you understand?
(Doing Therapy)
John, I don't understand why you think I don't understand. I understand completely: this world situation was not a good choice if we thought that you would be tempted to change history for the sake of changing history, because you like history the way it is. Had you been aboard the Nimitz in Final Countdown, you would have argued with them that they needed to get away from Pearl Harbor and back toward California as quickly as possible. You've made your point.
I understand your point.
I still say your point is irrelevant, that what matters is not what you think "getting involved" means, which I really don't care at all and am tired of reading about. What matters is whether I think you "got involved", and in my understanding, "getting involved" means taking intentional steps to change history.
You did not do so for the reasons I would have expected; but you did so for reasons I could not have anticipated.
It would have been wonderful to run you in Sherwood Forest. I would bet you have absolutely no clue what's at stake in that world, and would possibly have blundered into the biggest boondoggle of modern history. But that's a different story.
--M. J. Young
I still say your point is irrelevant, that what matters is not what you think "getting involved" means, which I really don't care at all and am tired of reading about. What matters is whether I think you "got involved", and in my understanding, "getting involved" means taking intentional steps to change history.
And it bothers me that you think it's irrelevant. That tells you a lot about how I feel about non-involvement. How I define it could be useful in picking worlds, could it not? Knowing how I feel about it gives you clues about how to get me involved. In my mind, I was never given the chance to even try to avoid changing history at Pearl Harbor. How does that work for you? What does that tell you about what kinds of worlds would be good for me? What does that tell you about what would motivate me to get involved? I have no idea. I'm asking you. You think it's irrelevant. I think it's real relevant. It really bothers me that you think it irrelevant. At the very least, you should be cognizant of it. How I define involvement should tell you quite a bit you would need to know about how to get me involved.
You seem to keep forgetting the player is in the middle of a MILITARY BASE!!!!! If bringing them into custody is in fact the only way to test non-involvement (which I doubt, but I'll concede momentarily) you could do it ANY TIME!!! You could send a SEAL team after the player. You could send Special Forces, you could send an entire armored division after them if you really felt the need. Immediate arrest by an MP is NOT the only way to get them into custody to test non-involvement!!! Let them off the chain. See what they do. You kept saying "Immediate arrest by an MP is the ONLY WAY to test non-involvement." I've proven you wrong and you won't admit it!!!! Not surprised, geeze, it only took me FOUR YEARS to convince you that I didn't want to warn Pearl Harbor!!!!!
It would have been wonderful to run you in Sherwood Forest. I would bet you have absolutely no clue what's at stake in that world, and would possibly have blundered into the biggest boondoggle of modern history. But that's a different story.
Like what I almost did in Dancing Princess? (snore) Been there done that, not affected. I'll tell you the truth MJ. If it had been anything less than actual hell-spawn demons, I probably would have allowed it to continue. Even knowing full-well what their plans were. Despite what some may believe, versers are not inter-dimensional police officers.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
MJ, I'd like to again remind you that (Doing Therapy) means, among other things, that I am having a full-blown psychotic episode at the time of the writing. A full-blown psychotic episode, and all I did was get a little bit goofy on a public message board. Put it into perspective, and just understand that I'm not really trying to be rude or offensive, I'm just really frustrated. You spend an hour, I spend 24. That means I'm 24 times more frustrated than you are. So don't be upset. Just roll with it. Please.
(Doing Therapy)
Three
Quoting myself
In my mind, I was never given the chance to even try to avoid changing history at Pearl Harbor.
Even if, through some miracle, the MP was the only person with whom I interacted, I UNDENIABLY changed history!!! I changed his life. He was hurt in the jeep crash too, ya know. How is that useful to you? How is how I feel about it useful to you? I think you're overlooking something very important.
(Doing Therapy)
This is where we are having the problem, John.
I am not in the least bit interested in whether you changed history. That is inevitable. Even if you did not interact with anyone, you changed history, because you were there in this version and not in the other. I don't care. I expect that history will change, and there is no way to predict how those changes will unfold.
I am interested only in whether you could by any means be induced or coerced into intentional actions calculated by you to direct history in a particular direction.
That was what we wanted to know.
I don't mean to offend you by saying that your opinion concerning the definition of "became involved" is irrelevant, but that's just the facts.
Maybe this will make sense to you.
Once or maybe twice in my life I've had a bit too much alcohol. The immediate effect was that my thought processes were dulled; I could no think clearly. I do not like that feeling. I therefore will not use any chemical agent which is likely to dull my thought processes, save only in the circumstance that a doctor has directed me to do so in response to severe pain (as from surgery, kidney stones, and similar severe medical conditions).
I therefore consider all use of drugs outside that limited context to be foolish, because I cannot imagine any good coming of dulling the ability to think clearly.
You disagree with that, apparently. You consider dulling your mind to be beneficial.
As far as you are concerned, my opinion that the use of drugs which dull the mind is foolish is irrelevant. You have gone so far as to suggest that I am foolish to hold such an opinion. I think you are foolish to believe otherwise. My opinion, however, is of no interest to you in this subject, precisely because my view of what is "bad" about drugs is exactly the effect you want.
It's kind of like the worm in Labyrinth:
Oh, Don't go that way! Never go that way!
If she had gone that way, she'd have gone straight to that castle!
Which was, of course, exactly where she wanted to go; but she didn't ask how to get to the castle, only how to get to the center of the labyrinth, and the worm did not know that that meant the place where the castle is.
--M. J. Young
You disagree with that, apparently. You consider dulling your mind to be beneficial.
No, I think it enhances my mind. Enhances my ability to think and be imaginative. Though disjointed and somewhat chaotic, you must admit I have come up with some brilliant world and vehicle designs whilst my mind was supposedly "dulled". The Daywalker Zombie world, for instance.
I am interested only in whether you could by any means be induced or coerced into intentional actions calculated by you to direct history in a particular direction.
That was what we wanted to know.
I think you missed the entire point. I'm changing my tune. I think knowing how I feel about it would be helpful to you in picking worlds. You missed the point. I've changed my tune. I think you should care about that because it tells you about your player. There's no such thing as bad information, only bad applications for it. What could you learn about me from knowing how I define involvement? You don't care. You're not even paying attention. There's a plethora of information about me in that attitude which you're completely overlooking, and you think it irrelevant.
I'm presently under the influence of several intoxicants. You're stone cold sober. Who's mind is "dulled"? YOU COMPLETELY MISSED MY POINT!!!!!! (Caps to get get your attention)
Oh, Don't go that way! Never go that way!
If she had gone that way, she'd have gone straight to that castle!
Which was, of course, exactly where she wanted to go; but she didn't ask how to get to the castle, only how to get to the center of the labyrinth, and the worm did not know that that meant the place where the castle is.
So that's what that joke was about!!! All this time, I thought the worm was just being a jerk.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
Just because I feel like it, I want to nullify and void the whole "I don't want to do it because it's illegal" argument.
If tomorrow it became a misdemeanor criminal offense to preach the word of God, you could not persuade me that you wouldn't be leading at least one underground church service. What am I saying? You would be leading a church service even if the penalty was life imprisonment.
What's the difference? It's something we believe in.
(Doing Therapy)
2) I don't generally lead church services.
1) I never said that there wasn't valuable information to be gained from other worlds and other openings; I only said that we wanted to know one narrowly defined piece of information about you, and our choice of worlds was entirely about determining the answer to that one question.
--M. J. Young
2) I don't generally lead church services.
Huh, I could have sworn I remembered you saying you were a church pastor at one point in time. That's usually why people go to Bible college, after all.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
MJ, you had all of the information you needed to know that Pearl Harbor would be a terrible world for me. You just read it incorrectly.
Change stereotype "Gun enthusiasts know military history" to "Gun enthusiasts have a problem with authority" (which I think is much more common) Bring to mind the fact that you had several times mentioned to me getting requests for Final Countdown, and extrapolating from that that my interest in the movie could be strictly time travel related. Also the fact that, as much as I talked about my interest in guns, I never once mentioned an interest in military history. Take into account how you beat into my head over and over and over that changing history would cause an infinity loop, coupled with the fact that my character would have no way of knowing he hadn't simply traveled to earth's past. That's everything you need to know to tell yourself that John would have a serious problem with being arrested on arrival, knows nothing about Pearl Harbor, and wouldn't want to change history because of the risk of causing a temporal anomaly. That last wasn't my reason of course, but it would be a damn good reason of which you would be aware. I mean I had just written a 5,000 word essay about why the Nimitz stopping the bombing would be a temporal disaster. And you thought I would want to stop it? What reason could my character possibly have had to think he was anywhere other than earth's past? Since you personally spent years explaining the dangers of changing the past, I'm earnestly surprised you even entertained the notion that I would want to change the past. You had already talked me out of stopping the bombing.
In all of your assuming about me, you forgot one very simple fact. That is that you yourself taught me that changing the past is (at best) a failure and (at worst) an inescapable time loop. Next time, stick to known facts. For that reason, I can't believe you thought I would want to stop the bombing. You spent years explaining to me why I shouldn't try to change the past. What made you think I would ignore all of your teachings?
You had all the information you needed to tell you it would be a terrible world. You just didn't read it right.
(Doing Therapy)
Huh, I could have sworn I remembered you saying you were a church pastor at one point in time. That's usually why people go to Bible college, after all.
There you go assuming again.
I went to Luther College pretty much because when I asked the Lord what I should do after high school and my parents were pressing me to choose between college and work, this place popped up out of nowhere and was very much shown to be where I should go.
Gordon College was less dramatically indicated but also chosen because of my certainty that it was where God was sending me.
It is incidental that my then best friend, lead guitarist, and best man at my wedding also went to both of those schools; neither of us were aware of the other's decision when we made our own.
At Luther there was only one course of study, so there was no decision to make once there. Gordon had as many programs as any liberal arts college, ranging from pre-med to physics to political science to education to music to mathematics to biology to English to language studies; the Biblical studies department was a relatively small part of the curriculum. I prayed much about whether to be a music major or a Biblical studies major, and chose the latter because I thought it would open more doors for my anticipated career as a Christian rock musician.
That has not yet materialized, but I have not lost all hope. I spend five years at a Contemporary Christian radio station, ultimately as program director, and taught at a fledgling Bible college, and then after a whirlwind tour of law school that got me a Juris Doctore and writing a role playing game I became Chaplain of the Christian Gamers Guild, but I lead worship services maybe once or twice a year in connection with that, at gamer conventions. I think Harry is the only person here who has ever been to one. (Go figure.)
And I think maybe five percent of the people who went to Luther College either intended to or actually did become pastors, and all of those went to seminary somewhere else after graduating there. I do not know what percentage of my biblical studies major companions at Gordon are pastors, although it might be a bit higher. There are a lot of reasons to go to Bible college that have nothing to do with pastoral ministry.
As to whether I ought to have known Pearl Harbor would be a terrible world, well, part of the Multiverser world concept is that it's not time travel even when you find yourself in what seems to be your own past, so the important aspects of not changing history don't apply. That's not to say there's no time travel in Multiverser, just that when you arrive in a universe that is your own past, that's not time travel.
And I note that you had no qualms about changing history when you were in Terminator.
--M. J. Young
And I note that you had no qualms about changing history when you were in Terminator.
That's a fictional timeline. Can't screw up a fictional timeline.
and taught at a fledgling Bible college
Maybe that's what I was thinking of when I thought you said you were a pastor.
As to whether I ought to have known Pearl Harbor would be a terrible world, well, part of the Multiverser world concept is that it's not time travel even when you find yourself in what seems to be your own past, so the important aspects of not changing history don't apply.
And how exactly was my character supposed to know that? As far as he knows, this is 1941 on his home world. Prove to him it wasn't. Who would have told him that he couldn't possibly land in the past of his own world? How was he supposed to know that? When in doubt, go with what you know. For all he knew, he was on his own earth in 1941 and stopping the bombing would cause an infinity loop. Give me one good reason how he would have known anything but that he had time traveled. That would be a damn good reason for him to not want to change the past, and you would have been well aware of it. You spent years drilling into my head the dangers of changing the past, then you actually thought I would want to change the past. Not only did you think I would want to destroy the future of the United States, you also thought I would want to trap myself in an infinity loop.
Two
I'm curious. If, when the MP pulled up and I found out where I was, could I have said "I don't want to play this world, pick another"? Could I have said that? The moment I knew I was facing an MP at Pearl Harbor I knew it wasn't going to go well. I had no idea just how badly it would go, but I knew it wouldn't be good.
You know what you were saying about the only way you can know someone is to find similar feelings within yourself? I was thinking "Of course MJ knows this was an extremely important historical event, and that if it was stopped, the future of the United States could be in jeopardy." I think I even expressed a similar sentiment in game. I was thinking you put me there to see if I would be stupid enough to stop the bombing and ruin the future of the US. "Well, I'm not that stupid!!!!!" The notion that you actually expected that I would want to warn them never crossed my mind until you explained it to me. I thought everyone with an ounce of common sense would know to stay as far away from it as possible. That's why it took me so long to comprehend that it was a test of non-involvement. I was very much surprised that you actually thought I would want to warn them. In my mind, no one would want to stop it, and it was a test to see if I would be stupid enough to do so.
That's a fictional timeline. Can't screw up a fictional timeline.
It's not fictional if you're in it.
If the Terminator timeline is a fictional universe, then the Pearl Harbor timeline which is part of the Terminator timeline must also be a fictional universe.
There is no fiction. There is only the reality of a different universe.
--M. J. Young
I'm curious. If, when the MP pulled up and I found out where I was, could I have said "I don't want to play this world, pick another"? Could I have said that? The moment I knew I was facing an MP at Pearl Harbor I knew it wasn't going to go well. I had no idea just how badly it would go, but I knew it wouldn't be good.
You know what you were saying about the only way you can know someone is to find similar feelings within yourself? I was thinking "Of course MJ knows this was an extremely important historical event, and that if it was stopped, the future of the United States could be in jeopardy." I think I even expressed a similar sentiment in game. I was thinking you put me there to see if I would be stupid enough to stop the bombing and ruin the future of the US. "Well, I'm not that stupid!!!!!" The notion that you actually expected that I would want to warn them never crossed my mind until you explained it to me. I thought everyone with an ounce of common sense would know to stay as far away from it as possible. That's why it took me so long to comprehend that it was a test of non-involvement. I was very much surprised that you actually thought I would want to warn them. In my mind, no one would want to stop it, and it was a test to see if I would be stupid enough to do so.
Yeah, it's a repeated post. I did want your thoughts.
Two
Too much drivel.
I'm curious. If, when the MP pulled up and I found out where I was, could I have said "I don't want to play this world, pick another"? Could I have said that?
To whom?
You could have said it to the MP; he'd have had no idea what you were talking about.
You could have said it to the referee; he would be perfectly justified in not posting anything for you until you chose to do something within the world.
You could have said it to me, and I'd have told you to go ahead and play it out, and maybe the next world would be more to your liking.
--M. J. Young
So even if some moron, some doofus, some complete and total IDIOT picks what I know will be a terrible world, I'm stuck with it. Jimmy was right. "Life's not fair."
Two
Oh yeah, and MJ, I don't ever again want to see you say that there's no way you could become a molecular biologist. If I could be induced to warn Pearl Harbor, then you could become a molecular biologist. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!
So even if some moron, some doofus, some complete and total IDIOT picks what I know will be a terrible world, I'm stuck with it.
No. No one says you have to play, but I would say that you ought to show more respect than that for anyone who agrees to undertake the trouble of running a game for you. In fact, that attitude contributes to the reluctance of people on this board to taking over your game.
--M. J. Young
Too Much Drivel.
Two
MJ, you never answered me. You said several times that you would warn Pearl Harbor. So, you just changed the battle strategy for the remainder of World War Two. With the Pacific Fleet intact, it would be inarguable that we would approach the war differently. What would you do, 10 years later, when Germany was raining hydrogen bombs down on the US as a direct result of what you did? That's a very real possibility. They were perfecting rockets long before we were, they were neck and neck with us in the bomb technology. Given some time, they would have had atomic first-strike capabilities against the US. What would you do, 10 years later, when Germany nuked what used to be your hometown because you wanted to save a few hundred lives? The US just lost World War Two, and it was all your fault. WHAT WOULD YOU DO???????
I bet those few hundred lives wouldn't seem so important to you anymore.
And yeah, I warned them. At least I had the excuse of being in no condition to think rationally.