This is mostly for Eric. I read a story a long time ago. A man is abducted by aliens and taken to see their queen. The aliens have no hostile intent towards humans, they just needed this man's help with something or other. When he meets the alien queen, the first thing he does is stick out his hand to shake hands. The alien queen freaks out, and orders the guards to throw him in prison. The guy is understandably shaken by this, and protests and wants to know why. It turns out that in their culture, pointing your hand at someone is a threat and an insult. The guy talks his way out of it, and the story continues, but I found it interesting to note.
Even on earth, we have similar culture shock. I'd say that 99.99% of the world's population understands a smile to be a sign of friendship. However, some researchers in Africa found that to some of the African bushmen, it was seen as threatening. You are, after all, baring your teeth at them. In their culture, a smile could get you killed.
In the US, a thumbs up has a positive meaning, but in Italy, it is the equivalent of giving the finger. I think it means something like "Stick it up your @$$" I guess The Fonz wouldn't last too long in Italy.
I could imagine quite a few good (and bad) times that could be had with this notion. Perhaps you land in a world where the Indigs speak English for the most part, but the word "Hello" means "I'm going to kill you" The Verser gets into trouble and doesn't even understand why.
I cannot say with certainty that this next is true, I've been told different things by different people, so I don't know for sure. Anyway, a friend of mine was dating a deaf man. He told me (he could talk) that giving the finger, in American Sign Language means "hot dog" and that it's a joke among deaf people. When you give the finger to a deaf person, you are saying, in American Sign Language, that you want to buy them a hot dog. Again, I've heard several different things from several different people, so don't take that at face value.
Absolutely.
Why don't you write up a list of ten symbols or things a verser is likely to do...and then come up with the alien insult these are?
Like...
1. Offer to shake hand....I'm preparing to attack you.
2.
1. Offer to shake hand....I'm preparing to attack you.
2. Giving the finger.... propositioning them for sex. This can have different outcomes, depending on the recipients gender and marital status.
3. Smile.... baring teeth
4. Making eye contact.... Challenging them (Indeed, I once had a total stranger want to fight me because I looked at him wrong)
5. Waving at them..... Saying that they don't exist (It's the motion of erasing something from a blackboard. You're erasing them from your life)
6. Hello, Hi, Greetings, etc..... various insults and connotations, depending on the referee's preference
7. interlacing your fingers in front of them..... Saying that you want to be joined to them, first step in the mating ritual
8. Speaking before they do.... Saying you're better than they are (I had a girlfriend that was Mexican. I found out the hard way that's how her father felt about it)
9. Smelling food that's cooking..... Checking it for poison (Again, Mexican girlfriend, that's how her grandmother took me smelling dinner cooking.)
10. Giving them advice..... Saying that you're smarter than they are (I got into a lot of trouble with this Mexican girlfriend's family for stuff that Americans do by reflex. The sad thing is that the girlfriend didn't even know it was considered insulting)
11. Asking someone personal information perceived as an insult? (I had this happen with a former coworker. Through a misunderstanding, I asked him if he was from South Africa. He freaked out. (Why????? Either he's from there or he's not, what's insulting about that??????????))
12. putting your hands up... preparing for a magical attack
there could also be things which are considered threatening in our culture that aren't in other cultures, like reaching for a weapon might not be considered a threat in a culture that developed in an enviroment where dangerous things could attack at any moment and reaching for a weapon means you're preparing for a monster you think might be around a tree.
13. There was an episode of The Simpsons where Apu, the Qwik E Mart clerk raised his hands like he was going to strangle Homer. Homer freaked out. Apu explained that in his culture, that was the sign of apology..... Then later he really tried to strangle Homer.
14. I've been told that in Arab cultures, waving with your right hand is acceptable, but waving with your left hand is considered insulting. They don't have access to toilet paper, so use their left hand for such things (EWWWWWW)
I forget the reason why, but you're not supposed to show the sole of your foot to someone in Arab cultures as well. It might be...I think you're dirt like on the sole of my foot.
Pretty cool guys. Thanks.
Five more, and we have a d20 list...:)
Phrases and expressions that we use in everyday speech. The one that comes to mind is "Let's blow this joint" Meaning "Time to go." When I say it, I always say "Let's blow this joint, who's got the detonators?" A friend of mine would say "Let's blow this joint, who's got the roach clips?" Something to think about, anyway.
16 Offering a hug: I have no idea why but I have had people react offended to a simple friendly hug. Perhaps in some cultures this is considered uncomfortably intimate, or perceived as a threat.
17 Eating in front of someone: I read somewhere about a culture variant where people were very open about mattes of sexuality and biology, but eating in public was, well, the equivalent of partaking of such matters in public in our culture.
18 Offering a more elaborate greeting: If I say "Hi," and you respond with "Good morning," I must respond with, "Good morning to you, and a fine rest of the day!" and thus begins a contest of one-ups until we declare a truce. Or else it's simply taken as you insulting my intelligence.
19 Complimenting someone on <insert typically banal quality here>: "My you're a tall fellow!" "What, are you saying I'm tall? Tall how? Like, I'm some kinda giant? I'm a freak show here to amuse you? How am I tall?"
I think these could be used somehow.
When I worked at PetSmart, I was very adept at insulting my bosses. How I kept that job for 3 1/2 years is beyond me. Anyway, there was a boss, I'll call him Rocky. He was one of the biggest jerks that I ever met, boss or otherwise. He had a college degree, and thought he was better than us peons. I felt the need to take him down a peg or two. He took over the department that I worked in. When he was giving his First Day as Boss speech, he told some lies. So I had to call him on it. He said "I'm a pretty easy guy to get along with." I felt the need to sneeze. It sounded a lot like I said the word "Bull-Shit". <wink wink> He looked at me, and I just said "What?" He said something else, I again felt the need to sneeze. Again, it sounded a lot like I said the word "Bull-Shit" He looked at me again. Again I said "What?" He said something else. I REALLY felt the need to sneeze. It sounded like I said "Bull-Shit, Bull-Shit, Bull-Shit" He looked at me again. I said "What? I'm allergic." I'd like to think that he didn't do anything because he knew I was telling the truth, but I think it's probably because he knew that I had 25 eye-witnesses that would all say I sneezed.
Another time, I had a fish tank that I needed to replace because it was broken. (I worked at the warehouse, not in one of the stores, BTW) He was head of the department that I had to go to get the fish tank replaced. He started in on me saying "Does this look like the place where you're supposed to take damages?" (It wasn't, that was on the other side of the building) I said "I'm trying to find out where this one goes, so I can get another one, GENIUS!!" In front of about 7 or 8 eyewitnesses. Somebody said "I guess he showed you, Rocky."
There was another boss, I'll call him Cliff. He was one of the very few bosses that I can honestly say I enjoyed working for. I never insulted him. Not on purpose, anyway. His birthday was Jan 1. New Years Day. We would get New Years Eve off, but have to work the next day. (Why they would want a bunch of people with hangovers driving forklifts that weigh more than a large car is beyond me) Anyway, we all chipped in and bought Cliff a really nice bottle of liquor for his birthday. I personally gave him half a bottle of Seagram's 7. When I gave it to him, I said "It's my bottle from last night, I figure you can pick up where I left off." He smiled and said "Thank You." He really appreciated it. I was just thinking about it though, that what I said could possibly have sounded insulting to someone else. That it could sound like "You're not good enough for me to buy you a whole bottle of booze, I was so cheap, I gave you a 'used' bottle." I was thinking that some people might appreciate that, as a possible culture shock.
And conversely, in another culture that could be what's expected; a brand-new gift would be insulting. "Here, I bought this yesterday specially, just for you." "What are you saying, the stuff you drink's too good for me? I'm not good enough for what you have, so you had to buy something special? I need special treatment because I'm not all refined and high-class like you? I guess you think you're pretty rich, buying me a whole new bottle. You gonna write this off on your taxes as a charitable donation? Keep it, I can buy my own liquor. Jerk."
Of course no one would say all that, but they might be thinking some of it.
This is fun from the other direction, too - I don't imagine the player would react too well when his date gives him a half-eaten box of chocolates on Valentine's . . .
And that brings up some other gift-giving traditions...
You're supposed to denigrate what you bring to a trade or as a gift.
"I only had this sway-backed, ancient nag to trade you." You say as you bring out a magnificent thoroughbred. The other then compliments it...if I remember right. I'm not totally sure how this works.
And in possibly a related tradtion in such a culture...if you enter someone's house and profusely compliment some item of theirs "That painting on the wall is so lifelike, its beautiful" then they will feel obligated to give it to you. So instead, you speak extremely harshly of your surroundings to let your host know that you like his house....of course, doing this to an American is likely to get you shoved out the front door so fast your head will spin.
I think some of the talking bad about stuff is to confuse evil spirits who might be listening and be tempted to steal something you have if it is good.
I had a girlfriend that was Mexican. Her grandmother came here from Mexico, and her parents were American born. I was at their house, and the grandmother was making dinner. Some Mexican dish or other. I went over, lifted the lid, and inhaled deeply, as you would do to get a smell of something good. Her grandmother said "What are you doing?" I said "Smells delicious." (I mean how many of us have done something similar?) It turned out that, in Mexican culture, if you do that, you're checking the food for poison or to make sure it isn't spoiled.
Also, I had driven to California from Ohio to meet the girl. At dinner, no one else was talking, apart from "Pass the peas" etc. I sat there and rattled on about my drive to California. Dinner conversation, as it were. I assumed everyone was listening to their guest tell of his adventures, and that's why no one else was talking. Turned out that you're not supposed to speak at the dinner table, unless the head of the family speaks to you. Where I come from, talking at the dinner table was expected, but I had insulted her father badly by doing that. And the sad thing is that the girlfriend didn't even know you weren't supposed to talk.
John, I think you duplicated yourself in this thread. The stories connected to your Mexican girlfriend are already here somewhere.
On a similar theme, nuances in language can be interesting. Dr. J. Edwin Orr, the Irish Evangelist in the early and mid twentieth centuries, tells of having stayed as guest in the home of Dr. Oswald Smith. On his departure he wanted to say something nice, so he said, "I think Mrs. Smith is one of the homeliest women I have ever known."
He knew immediately from the man's face that he'd made a mistake, so he attempted to correct it, saying, "I think Mrs. Smith is one of the homeliest ladies I have ever known."
The distressed Dr. Smith replied, "Well, she's no beauty queen, but she is kind of pretty, isn't she?"
"Yes, she is pretty," Dr. Orr replied, "but even more homely."
"What does 'homely' mean where you come from?"
"Well, 'sweetly' means 'sweet-like', and 'quickly' means 'quick-like'," Dr. Orr explained, "and 'homely' means 'home-like'."
"Well, I don't know how we got it wrong, but here it means 'ugly'. You know, you'd better watch what you say. If I weren't a Christian, I'd have punched you right on the nose."
And that's just English-to-English. He tells another story of a missionary speaking through translation who said, "My friend was tickled to death." The puzzled local translator scratched his head and said, "This I do not understand myself. The man's friend scratched himself until he died."
And of course one of my very favorite cross-culture gags is from Farscape, where the human says to the two aliens, "I'm going to go out and get some air," and after he has departed one turns to the other and says, "But, we have air in here."
--M. J. Young
John, I think you duplicated yourself in this thread. The stories connected to your Mexican girlfriend are already here somewhere.
Yeah, I know. I was just giving more detail about what happened.
And let's not forget Back to the Future
Marty: "Sounds pretty heavy, Doc." 1955 Doc: "Weight has nothing to do with it!!!"
Marty: "This is heavy" 1955 Doc "There's that word again, 'Heavy'. Why is everything so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull?"
Three posts from A1nut
Another would be backhanded compliments. I was just thinking about a girl that I knew in high school. There was some awards dinner for the seniors, and she dressed up really nicely. The next day, I told her "Ya know, for the first time since I've known you, I thought you were very pretty last night." Then I said "I know it's a little backhanded, but take it for what it's worth." (Or something to that effect) Could there be a world where backhanded compliments are the norm? The more backhanded they are, it means something more awesome?
"Ya know, you're the ugliest woman I've ever seen, but I absolutely love that hairdo!!!"
I read The Last Centurion by John Ringo. In it, two disasters strike the world. One is massive global cooling (Google 'Quiet Sun' if you'd like to learn more.) and the other is a really nasty strain of influenza similar to the Spanish Flu of 1921ish.
For a variety of reasons, Americans do better with this flu than many other peoples as it rampages around the world. One reason is that American culture in the matter of personal space is descended from German culture, and is even more extreme. He had some numbers...I think Americans like 36 inches squared as their space in ordinary conditions.
He noted that Arabs will hold hands in public with casual acquaintances and their notion of personal space is more like 18-24 inches. And that Chinese and so on have similar personal spaces and that in crowded situations the whole personal space thing might zero out.
(I'm doing this off the top of my head, and its fairly detailed so take with a bit of salt.)
Its of note that the Japanese had or have special packers that shoved people into bullet trains to get maximum package. An American would not react well to such a notion. They'd at best be holding their temper.
With a flu that is carried by coughing, you can see the obvious advantage a 'get outta my face!' attitude might have.
I think its likely that a world ravaged by some disease that had modern tech might have the following cultural rules:
1. Personal space in normal situations is 36 inches. In crowded situations like an elevator it is 24 inches. Zeroing out personal space is highly rude. Thus bumping into someone's shoulder in an elevator merits profuse apologies.
2. PDA is no ok. Public Display of Affection is not okay between those in love. The exceptions are a quick hug after an airplane trip, or a quick hug for a child from a parent or grandparent, and great grief.
3. The offering and receiving of warm drinks is to be expected after arriving at any area other than home after travelling any time in the frost season (good chance of frost on ground) or when its cool and wet.
If you get to work at the office in November, the first thing everyone does after taking off their coat is to get a cuppa tea. Go to the Parent Teacher Conference in January at night, and hot chocolate, coffee and sugar cookies are expected to be provided and at a minimum sampled. This demonstrates that you're trying to keep your guests immunity up, and that you're taking care of yourself so as to not infect others.
4. No handshakes. Bowing to others is in.
5. We see the cultural tendency developing now as people make the point on the radio that your co-workers will not thank you if you come in to work sick. It used to be that 'we need you, you can hang tough, get in here' was the goal. The new goal is 'stay home, get well, don't infect anyone else'. So the end result of this is that if you're at all infectious, you stay home, or try to hide your state. No hacking coughs in public. If you do, people stare at you,a nd deliberately walk wide around you, and everyone gets off the elevator to let you go on it alone.
6. More sick days, less vacation days.
7. There are a number of cultural cliche's that reflect the idea that it is a moral responsibility to take care of yourself.
--If you work to die in three, who cares for the family in five?
--A driven man often ends up in the ditch.
--The fire inside is better as coals than as a wildfire.
--A sick body often betrays a sick mind.
--We laugh together, but we sneeze alone.
--Old movies, hot soup, and an a quiet house are the best treatment for sickness.
--There are those who are tough, and then there are those who are wise.
--A healthy worker does twice as much work in half the time as a sick one.
--The cannonshot sneeze is a declaration of war.
--He didn't take care of himself, and thus he had no friends.
====
The PDA thing reminds me. I've occasionally read in fiction books where some foreigner makes note of the American penchant for acroynyms.
No hacking coughs in public. If you do, people stare at you,a nd deliberately walk wide around you, and everyone gets off the elevator to let you go on it alone.
This reminded me of something I read in Reader's Digest. A three star general was trying to get on an elevator, and wanted everyone else to get off of it. He had his bodyguards trying to clear the elevator. From the back, you hear "To hell with that three star general!!!" The crowd parts, to see who would be stupid enough to say something like that to a 3 star general, and standing in the back of the elevator is a 4 star general.
And that fits in with the Chinese notion of the Middle Kingdom and everyone bows to the Emperor, and the American notion 'no American bows to anyone but God'.
I can see a number of versers having difficulties, lets say, with a full prosykinethes (sp?) which has that whole get down on your face before the King. I put something like that into one of my worlds where not bowing to the Presidential Limo got you in serious trouble.
And other rank issues...
1. Have any purple on you? Are you a noble? (Of course, that brings in the Ghostbuster's joke....if someone asks you if you are a god, say yes.) Kahlua (chocolate alcohol) riffs on this with a guy and girl about to drink Kahlua are magically transported back to the Aztecs who ask them in Aztec 'are you kings?', and the guy says 'yes' even tho' he doesn't know what he's agreeing too, and they have a great party.
So...
A. Colors that indicate high status. (Interstingly nowadays high status colors are more pastel or less pronounced, but in medieval times that loud Hawaiaan shirt the clueless gauche is wearing might be taken as a sign of great wealth and status.) Nowadays bold colors are more associated with the lower classes.
Purple and gold are good possibilities through time to get you in trouble.
B. Get out of the road when someone more important comes through.
C. At one time pants were the sign of a Germanic barbarian. The toga was of course the sign of a civilized person. Part of this is being deliberately impractical. The lace cuffs, or the toga or the seven layers of silk are not what you want to be wearing when you do heavy labor in the fields. And it tends to be in most societies that heavy labor in the fields is less honorable. Why its less honorable to work hard and nonviolently than sit about doing numbers might say something unpleasant about humanity.
D. A lot of people in various societies could not carry weapons. Carrying weapons tends to be a sign of higher but not highest status. If you're really high, you have people to protect you.
This happened in America too where some of the early anti-gun sentiment was about fears that immigrants would get weapons.
Versers tend to have a lot of habits that would mark them as high status in most historical socieites.
E. Smooth, nice clothing, with elegant design vs. rough and ready. Or in America, slacks with a hook, and a button and wingtips vs. blue jeans with cowboy boots. Of course, as one former boss of mine who was quite wealthy said pointing to his large red SUV...'a redneck Cadillac'. You can spend a lot of money on cowboy boots nowadays, so things are more complicated now.
F. Weight and skin color: Being fat earlier was a sign you had enough money to be fat. A tanned skin meant you had to work outside. Nowadays, its flipped about in most regards although its noted that the guys with the best tans on the beaches don't have jobs. But nowadays, thin and tanned is more of a sign of elite status than fat and pale.
Most versers are going to be on the thin and tanned side as their life is going to enforce being able to deal with rough conditions. But in much of human history that's going to say 'you're a working man'.
G. Hair can get really insane. I ought to write up two d20 list of differing hair styles so that the ref can roll up on one for males and one for females. Beards can range from the full patriarchical style to Van Dykes to mustaches to unmanly and womanish beardlessness /smirk. Ponytails, down to the collar straight, bowlcuts, double braids, shaved clean...
And if you have a Typical American Male haircut, and you land among the Mohawks, it is going to be NOTICED.
If God wanted to directly contact a person, who better than a person with known mental illness? Either that, or a known drug user. (Preferably, a mental case who uses drugs LOL) If the person described their experience, it would be written off as either a mental breakdown, or a drug-induced hallucination. You know all those people who claim to speak to God when they're on drugs? Prove they aren't really speaking to God, and the drugs are God's cover. No one would believe them, they probably wouldn't really believe it themselves once they sobered up. But could it really have been of God? Prove it wasn't.....
The original topic was Culture Shock. I think this fits into that motif nicely.
(Doing Therapy)
You could certainly do a short list on differing ways of divine contact with each society having a preferred technique.
Some religious content is related to religious style, but some of the style is more based on culture.
It seems to me that there are a relatively few stereotypes in gamemaster's brains for religious services, and that of this only a few are ever used. There's the D&D temple which is visited when services are not in session, and the small cathedral of the RCC.
We know a lot more examples...
1. Pagans dancing around in a circle in a wilderness pasture.
2. Sweat lodges and vision quests.
3. Tibetan monks sitting lotus.
4. Small, plain Low fundamentalist Christian.
5. First Baptist Church of (Or First Methodist Church of...)
But we can go on from there...
1. High, Low, and Middle Christian Churches (Low refers to ornament and style as in the less the better). A High church is going to have robes for its pastor, choir, and lots of this and that.
2 Etc.
John, have you ever read the Belgariad, by David Eddings? Great fantasy series, and it has that same concept of seeming madmen being those that write the prophecies sent from beyond the world. In it, though, it is the direct contact from Gods that drove them mad half the time, which isn't exactly what you were saying, I think.
It starts with Pawn of Prophecy.
I've never heard of that book series Brock. The thing is, I often feel like God is talking to me when I'm doing my psychosis therapy. I also accept that I am heavily intoxicated and in a psychotic state. However, prove it isn't God speaking to me. So far, it's never told me to do anything strange, and I do feel closer to God at those times, so, real or not, I don't figure it can be a bad thing.
If it is unpleasant to say that people would rather not have to work as hard, and so envy those who do not have to work as hard, then I guess it does. At the same time, it is not only those who are born to wealth who do not have to work as hard. There are those who are smart enough to find a way to support themselves profitably based on their minds or their words or their ideas. There are also those who we might say are rewarded for their honor and past service--the knight who has wealth because he was rewarded greatly by the king for defending the nation; the disabled veteran who is supported by the state in gratitude for the sacrifice he made in the war.Why its less honorable to work hard and nonviolently than sit about doing numbers might say something unpleasant about humanity.
On the other hand, there is also the bandit who makes his living by theft. It becomes dishonorable if your lack of labor is believed to be based on that.
Of course, if they're using drugs, their own discernment is going to be limited. They themselves would have a hard time knowing that they weren't actually talking to their departed Uncle Herman who loves a good practical joke and thought it would be hysterical to persuade his nephew that God had contacted him. Prove that that isn't what really happened--and that opens the problem wide, that we mortals don't really have enough information by which to distinguish the truly benevolent spirit beings from the deceitful malevolent ones.Prove they aren't really speaking to God, and the drugs are God's cover.
--M. J. Young