In the Dream Park series, they got it right, but used it as the basis for a joke. In Dies the Fire by one of the DP authors they substituted an anecdotal event for a statistical certainty and hoped no one noticed. In The Last Centurion, they totally ignored it, as did The Postman (if I remember right, and I'm really not sure I am so scratch that.)
What is it?
In a postapocalyptic scenario involving the American West, there are a number of groups poised to survive: Ranchers, survivalists, perhaps some militia compounds....and Mormons.
Mormons are supposed to keep a supply of food for a year. They are generally healthier than the rest of the populace due to their dietary restrictions. They have a structure that uses the energy of their young men instead of casting it off as most of American society does. They have cohesiveness. They have a strong ethic.
All these things mean that the likelihood of the Mormons being the dominant or a very major player in any sort of revived American Old West is extremely likely if you're being realistic. Now, if you're indulging in your prejudgcices against religious people, or more specifically against them weirdos the Mormons, or you want to use the New Old West as an excuse for writing a story about how thuggery and pschyopathic violence wins the day (contra much of the evidence), or like SM Stirling you ask yourself the question "How could Pagans become the dominant religion of the New Old West?" and you manipulate facts until you arrive at the desired conclusion which then makes you popular with all the Pagan readers who buy a LOT of SF books.....
Tad - I know I'm going to look up SM Stirling now. Never would've heard of it if you hadn't said anything. Thanks. :)
You're probably right about the Mormons. But by the same logic, you'd also have a lot of Army guys, Boy Scouts, certain types of convicts, those nutty people who make a point of living off the grid already, and Amish.
I think it's not so much a matter of prejudice against Mormons as much as it is, well, firstly most people don't realize that about the Mormons, so the writers could be unaware, or, being aware, they could be aware that their readers are not aware and would think they're making it up ("Reality is unrealistic").
Also, it's not really about manipulating facts. Fiction writers owe nothing to the truth - they're fiction writers. They don't have to be factual. It's their story, it's their world.
Besides which, they're also under no obligation to show us the whole of their world all at once (kinda like how Tolkien randomly wanders off for pages on end describing the trees and ancient history in his). Maybe in The Postman, the Mormons are doing fine, they're just not doing it HERE. In one of those styles of "apocalypse," where most of the world is still alive but we just don't have technology any more, the Amish wouldn't even notice, but nobody ever mentions them, not because they're not important, but because they're not important to the story. They're over there, doing their own thing, and yeah, maybe we could learn something from how they do things, but we have to survive with what we've got long enough to do so.
I used to have a couple of Mormon missionaries living in my apartment complex. Ya know, the guys that come around door to door "Have you ever heard of the LDS church...." They were cool guys for the most part. I really respect them for their survivalist mentallity. I personally am into the same philosophy. "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." I try to keep at least enough food and water in my apartment that I could stay inside for 2 weeks or more in an emergency. Candles, sternos, bottled water, couple hundred rounds of ammo for each gun, etc. I just bought a food dehydrator, and I am planning to start making dehydrated fruits and beef jerky. It has a nearly infinite shelf life. People make fun of me for this attitude sometimes, but we recently had a power blackout in my city. I'm willing to bet that I was the only one in my apartment complex that ate a hot, cooked, steak dinner when the power went out.
Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent. I really like this notion that you're running here. I'd like to think that if something really bad happened, I could rely on my church for help, but that's just one church. One group. The Mormons are all Mormons. Their groups are all linked. The entire Mormon church (ALL OF THEM!!!!!) would probably be a dominant force in such an emergency. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mormon church rising as a form of governmental body after an apocolyptic situation. For as much as I think the Book of Mormon is a load of BS, I must say I respect and admire the church as a whole.
John,
We have a little stuff stored in the basement for the emergency.
And yes, I think you're right that a society formed around the Mormon church would be quite likely.
O7,
Obligation to the truth....hmmmm. Yes and no. If everyone in a field is ignoring an obvious point (and SF writers tend to know a lot of really INOBVIOUS stuff like ummmm I do. Trivia Pursuit champeen is moi.) then I think its a problem.
Also, there is an obligation to a greater truth. If you tell lies aka fiction to tell a greater truth...fine. If you tell lies to tell lies or a greater lie...not cool.
As to SM Stirling, either read him when he collaborates, or read his later stuff. His 'Against the Tide of Years' series and his 'Dies the Fire' series are both connected by a single event, and are quite good. Some of his earlier stuff ranges from unpleasant tasting to downright unpleasant. His Draka series about an alterate reality where American Tories took over South Africa and competed with the Nazis and the Americans for world power might leave a nasty taste in your mouth. It felt like he had some anger or something, and maybe he's worked through it now.
Also, in his 'Against' books, from what I hear he had at some time randomly tossed in a lesbian character in his novels, and found himself suddenly with a host of lesbian fans. So he decided to make use of that and have a couple major characters in 'Against' be lesbians. I think he did something similar in 'Dies the Fire'...he decided to move to a larger market tho'....he traded in his lesbian fans for pagan fans as there are a lot more of them.
I don't think he believes in either. In 'Dies the Fire' there is an agnostic who is very masculine, and I think from reading the books that that is probably closest to his viewpoint.
We have a little stuff stored in the basement for the emergency.
Eric, you've got a wife and at least two children (that I know of) to think about. I would seriously consider augmenting that. I have over 10 gallons of bottled water, about 5 pounds of dried beans, and a boatload of canned food. Not to mention the other miscellaneous equipment. If I can do that on an $1,100 disability check, certainly you could as well. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
And yes, I think you're right that a society formed around the Mormon church would be quite likely.
Actually, I think that's the reason they do it. They're preparing for the apocalypse, so that their church will rise as a governmental body. I really respect that kind of mentality.
I got the food dehydrator at Odd Lots for $20.00. Fruits and vegetables are exceptionally cheap (if you know where the bargains are) a little spent now can save you a lot of headaches later. People laugh at me for it. Well, I'll be the one laughing when they are trying to feed themselves and have nothing to eat, ya know?
Fiction writers owe nothing to the truth - they're fiction writers. They don't have to be factual. It's their story, it's their world.
That's not exactly true. Fiction writers must on some level deal with plausibility. That is, it isn't whether or not this could be true, but whether or not I can get you to believe it could be. Yes, you're going to suspend your disbelief on some points, particularly in a science fiction or fantasy story; but you are going to do so selectively.
Over the past few days I've received several e-mails from a reader who contends that he can do a reconstruction of Deja Vu such that the timeline we see is possible as one of the versions of history contained in a very long sawtooth snap. Part of his justification for his claim was that as fiction writers we could permit anything to happen as long as it was not less plausible than that the FBI was using a time machine to attempt to solve a terrorist bombing. With this tool in hand, he created some rather fanciful events along the way. My problem was not that I thought his reconstruction completely impossible, but that I just did not find it believable; it was more improbable than any reconstruction I had ever done, involving three different dresses, a cell phone that happened to be in a pocket of one of them, an explosive collision with a gasoline tanker, the murder of the same victim in multiple locations--I just didn't buy it.
That's the problem the fiction author faces: staying within the context of what the reader will accept.
I am reminded of a tale I read in grade school about a princess who was just so totally gullible that she would believe anything anyone told her. Her father was so concerned about this, that he promised that he would give her in marriage to the first man who could get her to call him a liar. (Yeah, well, great way to start a relationship, but it was part of the story.) Men came from far and wide telling her absurdities such as that the moon was made of green cheese (which she said she would like sometime to taste). One man, our hero, told her of an amazing adventure, and she devoured every word of it. Then, as his tale was winding down, he said that he returned home to this kingdom, to this city, where he saw the King beating one of the peasants. That, she said, was a lie; her father would never do that. He had hit the thing she would never believe, and so won his bargain.
Regarding stocking up, I'm afraid that around here we go through so much food that we wouldn't have room for even double our usual stock, and that only lasts about two weeks.
--M. J. Young
Regarding stocking up, I'm afraid that around here we go through so much food that we wouldn't have room for even double our usual stock, and that only lasts about two weeks.
So take it out for another two weeks!!! The thing you need to remember is that food is food. It's not like I wouldn't eat that canned food and dried beans in just day-to-day life. I get a hankering for beef stew every now and then, and dip a can out of the pantry. And no matter how hard I try, I can't keep a canned ham in there for more than 2 weeks. (I love that stuff) Homemade bean soup is a staple in my diet. It's not like you're buying an asset that is not easily liquidated.
You just have to know where to draw the line. The line that I've heard most frequently drawn is 2 weeks worth. However, I drew my own line. Since I do use the emergency food in day to day life, I just decided what the minimum acceptable level is. The minimum acceptable level was established last month, actually. Last payday, I increased my stock of dried beans by probably 8 or 9 pounds, (They cost less than a dollar a pound, have a nearly-infinite shelf life (if you keep them dry) and they're rich in fiber and protein. What's not to love?) and bought a lot more canned food. The minimum level is a one gallon bucket of beans, and a yet-to-be decided amount of canned food. That, with the food dehydrator, and some ingenuity on my part, would mean that I would be very well prepared, for an emergency, or just a well-stocked single person.
When it comes to where I am dipping into the 1 gallon bucket of dried beans, I need to get more. When I get to the yet-undecided amount of canned food, I need to get more. (And no, I don't just eat bean soup and canned food either. I'm actually trying to learn to cook, and I make excellent steaks and stews.)
EDIT:Just a personal note. I've got a 3@10 example on learning to cook. My grandfather was a Master Chef for a very large part of his 70 year existence.
And probably to an extent, dehydrated food will become a staple in my diet. I've always had a problem of fruits and vegetables not keeping very long. This solves that problem. The dehydrated beef jerky makes good stew meat, as I just found out. (It's about as hard as leather, but it's really tasty) and the fruits and veggies of course can also go into the Crockpot. I'm thinking about buying a few more of those food dehydrators, actually.
In Dies the Fire, no one escaped from Southern California. There's a decent arguement to be made that in the event of an apocalypse the number of survivors from NYC and NJ is going to be in the single digit percentages of the total population.
So maybe MJ doesn't want to build up his stocks on the same logic that ancient sailors don't learn to swim.
And thats a suitably creepy way to wander deeper into October.
Apocalypse or no apocalypse, MJ still needs to eat. If he didn't survive the onslaught of the apocalypse, I would consider him a very lucky person. However, blackouts, storms, and a host of other things that are very real and likely possibilities are enough to make me think it's a good idea.
Actually Eric, that was what inspired it in me in the first place. Normal life. For years, my uncle was drilling into my head about keeping 2 weeks worth of food at all times. I paid him no attention. Then a few years ago, I had a situation where my money was gone, I had no food, and I needed to go to the church food pantry to get through the rest of the month. That was a bit of a blow to the pride, and I began the stockpiling shortly thereafter. Since I began that practice, I have never gone hungry once.