In my first world, I was getting on MJ's nerves, and I tend to do from time to time. He told me that he knows referees that would put a giant insect right behind me, just to get me to be quiet. The implication was that there would not be any kind of dice rolls when that happened.
In Pearl Harbor, an MP rolled up out of nowhere. I didn't see any GE rolls for that. No dice rolls. Well, if there were no dice rolls, where did the MP come from?
Eric said that he once killed a player twice in 15 minutes, just for getting on his nerves. Again, the implication was that there were no dice rolls, Eric just decided to kill the player.
Now, forgive me if this sounds extremely ignorant, but if the referee can just pull things out of thin air anytime he wants to, what's the point in having rules and dice in the first place?????????????? If you can be walking along minding your own business, and the referee can just decide to have a mugger jump out of the bushes, and not even roll any dice, or if a police officer can come up out of nowhere with no dice rolled, or a giant insect can just appear behind me, and there's no dice rolled, WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT IN EVEN HAVING RULES!!!!!!!!!!! If the referee can just decide Ex Nihilo to do pretty much anything he wants to anytime he wants to, then there's no point in playing at all. If the referee can just say "This Happened" then I say "Where's the dice roll?" and the referee can say "No dice roll, that happened" and there's nothing I can say against it, what's the point? This makes no sense to me.
It sounds like the only dice rolls not being made are GE rolls. GE rolls are not even intended to dictate every event. Down that way lies random encounter tables. They are only meant to help the referee make a decision. For instance, the fact that i was ambushed by Mighty Maxwell and his Scintillating Silver Hammer was dictated not by a GE roll but because the referee needed a way to move me on to the next world. meanwhile, what i got when i opened a quantum cardboard box was dictated by a GE roll, since that was pretty much random.
In a situation that was somewhat similar to the ones above, except it wasn't a grudge monster, during one of the live play sessions someone got in a fight with a raptor. the fact that it attacked him was not dictated by die rolls, except maybe an opposed check against his attempt to hide, but the fact that it missed both claw attacks before getting it's head blown off by a double barrelled shotgun WAS.
A1,
One of my managers at one time received a complaint. I had called another worker a moron. My manager, who knew me well for a number of years, and had never head me say that about anyone before, said "If Eric called you a moron, then you deserved it."
You have to trust your GM. He has the power to mess you over in ways you can't see coming. The rules and dice are there as helps and guidelines and to build that trust, but ultimately you're trusting him. If you decide he's not worthy of that trust, then find another GM.
So, if I killed someone twice in fifteen minutes, they probably deserved it.
I don't roll dice to decide how the world is. I don't roll dice to decide what people say when you talk to them, or how much the flunkie knows about the archvillian's plot. If the action is flagging, the player is getting bored, and it's obvious that what would really pick things up would be a nice chase scene, I don't roll dice before deciding that now is when the assassin (whom everyone has forgotten about) finally catches up to our hero.
I can roll dice for those things if I want to, usually if I'm feeling indecisive. But if I had to roll dice? The game session would crawl, at roughly the speed of a one-legged tortoise uphill.
You point out a few instances where the fact that the referee makes stuff up is particularly obvious; but you don't seem to be thinking about the fact that the referee is making stuff up all the time - constantly. Really, the die rolls are the exceptions, not usual method of decision making.
John--you'd probably benefit from reading the Game Ideas Unlimited series, because it talks about a lot of different approaches to games and game situations.
You have to remember that the referee is creating the world, and you are experiencing it. How the referee creates the world varies, and not merely according to who is the referee--the same referee will do different things in different worlds.
In the 80's and 90's when I ran Original Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, it was known that I would spend hours preparing my world for play. In a dungeon, every room would be drawn and labeled, and the contents of that room meticulously detailed. There were also wandering monsters, pre-rolled and pre-generated so that I knew when the dice said it was time for a random encounter what would appear, how many and what they had with them.
This was the sort of game you would call "fair". My players knew that nothing that happened had any connection to them as players or to their characters--much of what was designed predated their character generation, and the party was growing and changing fast enough that no one would think that a random magic item was anything other than random--I did not "put that there" for a particular player's character.
On the other hand, I still had to improvise. Players would surprise me, go places I had not covered, do things I had not anticipated. I still had to create on the fly sometimes, when they reached the edges of my world maps or went into a city that was only partly detailed. At that point, I had to provide details from whatever it was I had intended to do there, or whatever I was considering doing there, or whatever I thought would work there. That "fairness" went out of the game. It was replaced by a different kind of "fairness"--the fairness of which Eric speaks, that you trust your referee.
After all, this is not about the players versus the referee. It is about the players proving themselves in some way (depending on their own creative agenda) against the world and situations the referee devises. As my character Ralph says in Old Verses New, I want the players to win--that's the whole point, for me to give them the feeling that they almost lost and somehow managed to pull victory in the end. But I need them to do it in a way that they know they did it--I didn't hand it to them. I'm rooting for them, but I still have to be fair or they feel cheated.
Then I met E. R. Jones. He also ran Original Advanced Dungeons & Dragons; but he came to the table with nothing but his dice. He had nothing mapped, no monsters detailed. He created the same kinds of adventures I did, but he did it all on the fly, deciding what would happen. The fact is, he was very "unfair" about it in every way I would at that time have insisted was "fair". He decided we needed an encounter when he thought the game was dull (and it was said that the most dangerous thing anyone could say at his table was "I'm bored"). He decided the encounter was over when we had taken a sufficient beating, or sacrificed our safety nets and hole cards so we would feel more vulnerable on the adventure ahead. I still won't run a game that way, but I learned a great deal from watching him do it.
Now I design worlds dozens of ways. Some of them are plotted in meticulous detail; some are little more than ideas filled in in response to player actions.
I have a scenario in Why Spy that plays like an action movie, something like Die Hard or Under Siege, both of which contributed to the ideas. The reason it plays like an action movie is that it is designed to be run that way. There is a nuclear bomb somewhere in the high rise building, and the terrorists are threatening to detonate it if their demands are not met. Obviously, the terrorist leader knows where it is--but not even the referee knows where it is when the player character enters the building. There is no map of the building detailing where things are; rather, there are floorplans that the referee uses, improvising a retail mall here, an office complex there, a medical suite in this other place, warehouse or storage space, or whatever he needs. When the player hits a floor, the referee assigns a floorplan to that floor and decides what's on it. The real beauty, though, is the encounters. The referee doesn't decide where the terrorists are; he decides when the player will encounter them. He runs it like the director of a movie, following a script in which he knows that the next encounter is the real hiding employee, after that we have the terrorists holding prisoners, the terrorist who pretends to be an employee, the big guy who dares you to take him hand to hand, the team sent to hunt you down--each of these tropes coming in order as you move through the story, until you meet the head of the terrorist group and find the bomb. It doesn't matter what you do or where you go, you will go through those events in the order prescribed--and even if you stay still, they will come to you. It plays you, to a significant degree.
And most players find it one of the most exciting scenarios we run, despite or possibly because of the fact that they are in a sense being railroaded through the encounters. I'm making stuff up--where this happens, how it happens. I'm building the world around you.
That's the point: the referee builds the world, and sometimes he is building the world around you. Sometimes he uses dice for that, sometimes he has pre-planned set pieces, sometimes he is doing what he believes the other characters he created could and would do, and sometimes he is making it up as he goes along. If you land in one of the Vorgo worlds, I know exactly where you arrive and what you see. If you land in a Mary Piper world, you'll be in the cargo hold, even if you've already been in the cargo hold of the other one, because that's the best place to start you. I'm sure that in Pearl Harbor, Adam thought that the best place to start you was inside the military base where you would be found almost immediately by military police. He thought that would pull you into the story quickly. It did. You didn't like where it put you and it probably was not what he intended, but it worked, and were I to run the same scenario I would probably use the same opener. After all, if you did want to warn the military of an imminent attack, you'd need an introduction of some sort just to get to the people you needed to see.
And even if I use the dice, they only tell me that something happened--they don't tell me what. If you were in NagaWorld, that something could be an encounter with a coral bush or creeper vine or clam, or with a Dar Koni or Kreelak warship, or with a piece of Earth technology dragged in from another universe, or with artillery fire from unseen gun emplacements--the dice don't tell me what I'm going to do; they tell me how things are working.
Indeed, if the dice actually could do what you seem to want, this would be a computer game--we wouldn't need intelligent creative people making decisions about what happens behind the screens.
--M. J. Young
I'm sure that in Pearl Harbor, Adam thought that the best place to start you was inside the military base where you would be found almost immediately by military police. He thought that would pull you into the story quickly. It did. You didn't like where it put you and it probably was not what he intended, but it worked, and were I to run the same scenario I would probably use the same opener. After all, if you did want to warn the military of an imminent attack, you'd need an introduction of some sort just to get to the people you needed to see.
And if I didn't want to warn them (which I didn't) I wouldn't have a choice but to go to the base anyway. At least if there had been dice rolled there, it would have felt (to me at least) that it was more fair. Just pulling an MP out of nowhere???? What's the sport? It's like saying that you want to go hunt a tiger, and you lock him in a cage when you shoot!!!!!
I've told you before that if you REALLY wanted to see what I would do there, you should have versed me in right in front of a big sign that said "Pearl Harbor Naval Base" and let me see what I want to do. If you had done that, you would have found that I would get back in the van, started the engine, and driven away at 60 MPH and never looked back.
See, if the dice had been rolled, and they came up wrong, you'd have fled the base and then the referee would have had to basically ditch his storyline and make up something totally new, or come up with a flimsy excuse for versing you out. The entire point to having this be a two person game anyway is that the referee can come up with a plot he likes and has some reason to believe that you would like.
What's the sport?
You seem to be under the impression that the referee is opposed to you. He sent in the MP because he thought that the end result of that would be a scene you'd enjoy. He did not send in the MP in order to defeat you, except so as to lead to an interesting interrogation scene.
See, if the dice had been rolled, and they came up wrong, you'd have fled the base and then the referee would have had to basically ditch his storyline and make up something totally new, or come up with a flimsy excuse for versing you out.
And what exactly would be wrong with that? I thought the entire purpose of this was to see what the player would do. If the player wants to flee the scene and never look back, and you want to see what he will do, then you should let him do just that!!!!!!
See, if the dice had been rolled, and they came up wrong, you'd have fled the base and then the referee would have had to basically ditch his storyline and make up something totally new, or come up with a flimsy excuse for versing you out.
MJ had to do exactly that in my last world. It was expected that I would go to a castle and save some princess. I stayed back in the village and learned blacksmithing. The first player MJ ever ran in that world to do so. That was what I wanted to do. I was allowed to do what I would do. And I did it. I did something completely unexpected. If you want to see what the players will do, then you should let them do it. Or at least roll dice to see if you're going to let them do it.
In fact, I even tried to leave after the MP got there. After he told me where I was, I said "Just point me towards the nearest exit and I'll be on my way." (I rolled a perfect score on my charisma check, why didn't he do that?) If they REALLY wanted to see what I would do, that was it. LEAVE!!!! I even tried to. My only option as far as doing what I wanted to do would have been to commit cold blooded murder.
I don't get where you're coming from on this "want to see what i would do" front. I was never informed that was the point of any role-playing game out there, multiverser included. Plus, even if that was the point, he wanted to see what you would do dumped into that situation, and what you attempted to do really should not have worked. If you'd attempted to convince him you were supposed to be there, said you'd lost your badge, asked to be shown the way out, and rolled a perfect on your charisma check, then you should have been allowed to leave. but if you think that asking to be shown the way out when you'd apparently broken into a high-security facility ordered to prepare for potential sabatoge, then you should think again.
I don't get where you're coming from on this "want to see what i would do" front.
That's what MJ said when I asked why he sent me there. He wanted to see if I would warn them of the attack. That sounds a lot like he "Wanted to see what I would do" to me.
You know, I hadn't really put this so clearly in my mind before, but frankly, that suggests to me that Adam did the right thing. If you didn't want to warn them, you didn't have to warn them. If you were sitting in a cell in the middle of the base and the attack came, it seems at least reasonably likely that you'd have been killed, versed on to the next world, and proven your point by not becoming involved.And if I didn't want to warn them (which I didn't) I wouldn't have a choice but to go to the base anyway.
Now, probably Adam sent the MP because he didn't want to make it too easy for you to avoid the situation. The attack on Pearl Harbor was devastating, but it was not as devastating as the attack on Hiroshima, obviously, and people did survive--even though civilians in residential and non-military areas were also hit. Or maybe he just wanted to jumpstart the scenario by making you cognizant immediately exactly where and when you were located, instead of having you wander around for a bit, finally pick up a local newspaper, and realize that the bombs are falling in ten minutes.
I even tried to leave after the MP got there. After he told me where I was, I said "Just point me towards the nearest exit and I'll be on my way." (I rolled a perfect score on my charisma check, why didn't he do that?)Not sure, but first, I don't remember the roll or your charisma--but rolling exactly your charisma is a failure. Attribute checks require that you roll below your attribute. This is because it is possible to have a 3@10 attribute and it is not possible to roll above 40 on either 2d20 or d30+10, so in order for it to be possible for the best of the best to fail an occasional attribute check it's got to be a roll under to succeed system.
Second, you're asking too much of an attribute check. Hey, just because the girl at the grocery store is immediately smitten by you doesn't mean she's going to let you leave the store without paying for the three hundred dollars worth of survival supplies you just took. The MP might have liked you a lot, might have been ready to make a recommendation to his commander that you were probably just a lost tourist--but he's not going to let himself be put up on charges of dereliction of duty simply because he thinks you're a nice guy. I'm sure they told him what the Doctor told Romana: he wouldn't make a very good thief with a dishonest face, now, would he? It's probably not within his job description to let you go without filing a report. A favorable charisma check would mean he would file a favorable report. It wouldn't mean he would suddenly destroy his career or kill himself simply because he's a problem for you.
And yeah, all role playing games have that aspect that the guy creating the scenarios whats to see what the player will do. Whether it's some series of obstacles or puzzles to solve, or some army of invading monsters, or some difficult moral dilemma, or an unexplored frontier, when the referee creates it, if he's worth his salt, he is much more interested in discovering how the player addresses it than in whether the player manages to come up with the same solution he had in mind. If he thinks otherwise, players will quickly disaffect him of that notion--they always think of solutions you never imagined, and it's always entertaining.
--M. J. Young
You know, I hadn't really put this so clearly in my mind before, but frankly, that suggests to me that Adam did the right thing. If you didn't want to warn them, you didn't have to warn them. If you were sitting in a cell in the middle of the base and the attack came, it seems at least reasonably likely that you'd have been killed, versed on to the next world, and proven your point by not becoming involved.
Don't give me that "You could have just versed out" crap. Just because you have versed out 50 trillion times in the past doesn't mean that you WILL verse out the next time!! I think the characters in your story were way too quick to risk their lives. They DON'T KNOW that they are going to verse out!!! They know that they HAVE versed out, not that they WILL verse out. Did you ever see the movie Small Soldiers? The bad guys (who actually turn into the heroes of the story) are programmed to "Hide and Lose" They're just plastic dolls, what do they care if they live or die? Well, if you're not given an option at all, then it's kind of hard to make that choice, now isn't it?
You wanted to see WHAT I WOULD DO. WHAT I WOULD DO would be to try to leave the situation completely. If I did ANYTHING as far as warning them, it would be to find the nearest pay phone, look them up in the phone book, and tell whoever answered "The place is going to be bombed in 2 days." and then hang up. But that's only IF my conscience was bothering me about it. WHAT I WOULD DO would be try to get lost in 1941 earth!!!!!! You never gave me the option to see WHAT I WOULD DO. THAT is what I am upset about!!!!
You never got to find out WHAT I WOULD DO, because you never gave me the choice to try to do it!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know that Pearl Harbor is going to be bombed. I know that it's an important part of American history. I also know that the end result of it was that we got pulled out of The Great Depression, and helped to defeat one of the worst dictators the world has ever known. I can live with that. I wouldn't even want to TRY to mess with that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That was an awesome outcome. I wouldn't even TRY to get involved in that!!!! YOU DIDN'T GIVE ME A CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I NEVER HAD THE CHOICE TO DO WHAT I WOULD DO!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't even want to IMAGINE the damage that I did to the United States in that world!!!!! The United States had been invaded by the Mexicans when I left. They probably lost WW2, because you didn't even let me TRY to do WHAT I WOULD DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT I WOULD DO would have been to leave completely and never turn around. YOU FORCED ME TO GET INVOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to even TRY to get involved in Pearl Harbor!!!!!!!!! It was a tragedy, but it was a tragedy that had positive results!!!!!!!! I CAN LIVE WITH THE OUTCOME OF PEARL HARBOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WOULDN'T EVEN TRY TO GET INVOLVED IN THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU FORCED ME TO GET INVOLVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yes, I am doing psychosis therapy. I'm not thinking really clearly. However, you FORCED ME to get involved!!!!!! If I had been given a choice, I wouldn't have even TRIED!!!! I don't know if I would be willing to die at Pearl Harbor, but I DO know that I don't even want to try to get involved!!!!! I never got the choice!!!!!!! If given a choice, I would have left completely.
As far as I would have been concerned, Pearl Harbor was fine!!!! You never gave me the choice to do what I would do. YOU FORCED ME TO GET INVOLVED!!!! DO YOU GET IT NOW???????????????? THAT'S WHY I'M SO PISSED OFF ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am doing psychosis therapy at the moment. I'm not thinking really clearly.
That said, forgive me. I'm going to leave it as is, because I am also trying to research the therapy.
Anyway, what I am saying is that I never got the choice. I wouldn't even try to get involved there. When I showed up, my options were leave, or go to the base. I would have LEFT!!!!! The MP rolled up. Now my options are Kill a fellow human being, or get arrested. You never gave me the choice to do what I would do. What I would do is leave!!!!!!!!!!
I can live with the outcome of Pearl Harbor. I don't want to mess with that. When I get to the base, my options are Die, or tell them. However, I can live with Pearl Harbor. If I had been given the choice, I wouldn't have gone anywhere near there!!!!!!!! I NEVER GOT THE CHOICE TO DO WHAT I WOULD DO!!!!!!!!!
And yes, I'm upset about it, in case you can't tell.
You never gave me the choice to not get involved at all!!!!!!!!!
I can live with the outcome of Pearl Harbor. I never had the choice to COMPLETELY not get involved. I was involved the minute that MP rolled up, period, end of discussion. If given the choice, I would have just left.
You would have been forcing me to either warn them, or sacrifice myself. There was no option to LEAVE COMPLETELY!!!!!!!!!!
I was never given the choice to not get involved at all. Do you get it? The outcome of Pearl Harbor, as recorded in our history, is that a lot of men died heroes, the United States came out of a huge financial slump, and took out Adolf Hitler. It is pretty much agreed among historians that had WW2 started 5 years later, Germany would have won. They were developing weapons that we would have been no match for. In 5 years, with mass production, they would have had thousands of them. If the Pearl Harbor bombing didn't happen, we would be typing in German right now. Why would I want to get involved in that???????????? I was never given the choice to not get involved at all!!!!!!!!!
What I would have done, have been given the option, is try to make as much money as I could, doing whatever I could, and buy lots and lots of stock in anyone involved in the war effort, especially if they were big names in the world I came from. Maybe a few hunches from our world too. I was never given the choice to do what I would do, do you get it?????????????????
John, please quit yelling.
Also, it seems to me from yesterday, and from a quick glance at your rants today that what you're wanting is freedom from consequences and freedom from effort.
You're free to try, key word 'try' to be non-involved. The characters of the world are also free, if it makes sense to them, to dump you into a GI uniform, slap a rifle in your hand, and send you off on pain of execution to go fight Tojo.
I had one of my players arrive on a Chinese Army base in New Jersey (it was a Chinese/American Codominion of the planet with the Chinese providing the men and the Americans the tech). If an MP had spotted him, it would have been perfectly reasonable for the MP to take him in. Now, he may have turned himself in.
In any case, as an American he got turned over to the American authorities after some questioning.
And in that totaliatarian future he was not free to talk about whatever he wanted to because there were cameras everywhere and many subjects were verboten.
He learned how to 'code talk' to get by the censors.
His actions were free, in that he got to choose them. Now he had to live with the consequences of those choices.
You're requesting a choice to make with no pressure on you. However, in Multiverser, and in real life, it frequently doesn't happen that way. No pressure does not equal 'free' in the context of the game.
You're requesting a choice to make with no pressure on you. However, in Multiverser, and in real life, it frequently doesn't happen that way. No pressure does not equal 'free' in the context of the game.
Eric, you're forgetting a few things here. First off, while it is true that I might have been caught by an MP in real life, it is also possible that I would not. I had a van made in 1997, going against 1941 army jeeps. I'd say I had a fair chance to make a clean escape. It's also possible that I would roll a 3, and meet no resistance whatsoever. My point is that I was never given the option to try to do that. I was there 10 seconds, and I got arrested. I was never given the option to try to figure out where I was on my own, and then see if I wanted to get involved. It's also possible that I could have landed just a half mile away from a place that would easy to sneak out of. I was never given the option to even try that, unless I wanted to commit cold blooded murder.
...forgetting a few things....Why yes, yes I am. And why is that John? Could it be because its been almost a year since the events in question? This is one of the major reasons why I would never allow this type of discussion to go on this long if I were your GM. Flat out, no way. You get your time to make your plea in the game, you get some more time afterwards, but within a month, its close the books time.
The set-up for "Doom of the Mech Empire" world which is possibly my best world EVAR!! :) is that you arrive in a cave with a dying alien. He, being an electrical entity, mentally riding a dumb beast, sees you, that you have no very strong electrical field, and assumes you're another dumb beast.
You wake up with an alien inside your head before you can do anything.
Suppose you're a GM, and you decide to drop someone into a totalitarian future where China and America buddy up to rule the world and everyone is spied on. Is it wrong to drop them into a Chinese army base in sight of downtown Manhattan as a way of dramatizing the situation?
The real answer is not 'yes' or 'no'. Its 'it varies'. The GM has to use his judgement. Most of the time, you tilt toward letting the player have more options, but occasionally you don't.
I wrote one World A Week, WAW: Demented, about Tadeusz arriving, and being asleep as versers do, and being scooped up by a paddy wagon before he wokre and dropped off at the mental asylum for the next fifty years.
I wrote another one about him being clocked on the head after arriving, and being impressed into the Queen's Navy.
Are these situations unreasonable?
Remember, you wanted to dump the arriving verser into roller skates and totally take away their freedom.
Remember, you wanted to dump the arriving verser into roller skates and totally take away their freedom.
Point made there, Eric. And yes, I understand that this must get annoying. Look at it from MY point of view though. I'm psychotic. My episodes are based on memories. You think this is annoying? You only have to hear about it every couple months. I, on the other hand, have to live inside my head 24 hours a day. Believe me, my friend, it gets annoying!!!!
I guess maybe I'm just taking this too literally. MJ said that he wanted to see what I would do if he dropped me in the middle of Pearl Harbor, however, I was never given the choice to even try to do what I would do if I was dropped in the middle of Pearl Harbor. How is that a fair test of what I would do?
I had 2 AM radios. I could have used those to at least figure out what year it was. Maybe the date if I got lucky. Maybe I could have figured out where I was on my own. Maybe I'm just taking it too literally. Point made about the roller skates, that was kind of a dumb idea in retrospect. However, do you at least see where I am coming from here?
It was a fair test of what you would do if you were dumped into the middle of pearl harbor and arrested by an MP, though.
Anyway, your freedom was only partially removed. you actually had plenty of choices, from what i've been able to gather. It's just that you didn't like where those lead. 1. just not tell them about the attack. 2. delay warning them about the attack to until they had just enough time to get everyone to the air defense guns, the ships to sea, and the fighters in the air before the japanese arrived. 3. attempt to disarm the MP, and then try escaping. 4. hope that the advances in materials science since 1941 were enough to protect you if you just got in the van and drove away. and that's just a list of things i thought up.
Yes, but option 5 Leave Completely was never given. THAT is the option that I would have taken, and I'm willing to bet that no one besides me even considered that an option. MJ kept saying that he wanted to see what I would do there. However, he NEVER gave me to choice to do it, and probably never even considered it. What exactly would be wrong with leaving completely? I was never given the choice to do that.
MJ, you were talking about dropping me into Quest for the Vorgo. Well, I can tell you right now what will happen. When the priest says "We have summoned you to retrieve the Vorgo" I'm going to look him right in the eye and say "Well, you summoned the wrong guy." then walk right out the front door. And since you successfully destroyed any qualms I may have had about killing indigs, anyone that tries to stop me is going to catch a hail of 9mm fire.
I was never given the option to leave Pearl Harbor completely, and I bet no one besides me even considered that as a viable option.
This thread has brought much enjoyment my way. Was I fair, was I playing drinking games while deciding what happened, the world may never know? But to shorten this thread to one or two lines for those pressed with time:
I want the freedom to be as much of an a-hole that I want, with no conquences, while giving grief to the GM running me on how I think he should run the story.
This took place 18 months ago, get a hobby.
-Adam
Adam, I think you're just jealous because I thought of an option that your primitive mind would have never considered viable.
I think you were just too ignorant to think outside the box. Your tiny little Adam Keller brain was saying "He needs to go to Pearl Harbor" when my brain was saying "Leave well enough alone." I don't think you would have had the imagination to run me in that world, because you would have never considered all of the options.
Please explain to me how exactly you expect to walk out of the largest fleet base of the united states pacific fleet after it has been given a warning that the local commanding officers interpreted as a warning to be prepared for sabotage.
One does not simply walk out of high security facilities. However, you could have tried, if you actually felt like leaving. It wouldn't have gone very well unless the dice rolls were extremely lucky, but it was actually an option.
MJ, you've said many times that you wanted to see if I would get involved, but I was never given the choice to not get involved. No matter how you look at it, or candy coat it, or whatever, I was involved the minute that MP rolled up, period, end of discussion. I was never given the option to NOT GET INVOLVED!! Does anyone understand this????????
Please explain to me how exactly you expect to walk out of the largest fleet base of the united states pacific fleet after it has been given a warning that the local commanding officers interpreted as a warning to be prepared for sabotage.
One does not simply walk out of high security facilities. However, you could have tried, if you actually felt like leaving. It wouldn't have gone very well unless the dice rolls were extremely lucky, but it was actually an option.
My point is I was never given the option to even try that, short of committing cold blooded murder of an MP. Look me in the eyes and tell me you could consider that an option, and I'll look you in the eyes and call you a boldfaced liar!!!! Either that, or one sick minded SOB.
You don't quite understand. if you got lucky on your running skill check, the MP was unlucky when he attempted to attack you, and you were lucky on your GE roll for if guards could intercept you, you'd be able to escape offroad and out of the base. no killing an innocent MP required.
I told you it would require a lot of luck on the dice.
I told you it would require a lot of luck on the dice.
The fact remains though, I WAS NEVER GIVEN THE OPTION TO EVEN TRY IT!!!!!!!!!!!! Did it ever occur to you that I would rather verse out trying to escape from Pearl Harbor than to get involved there at all? I mean Adam, you could have been running an exciting chase sequence of me trying to escape, instead of running a sequence of me laying in the hospital. Which would you REALLY rather have ran?
Did you even attempt to try running away? if you did, and were flat-out deinied the option, then there would be a problem. But if you're like the group that let themselves be arrested by a mage and his golem, and complained about railroading while in jail, then you likely assumed too much about the constraints on your action.
Did you even attempt to try running away? if you did, and were flat-out deinied the option, then there would be a problem. But if you're like the group that let themselves be arrested by a mage and his golem, and complained about railroading while in jail, then you likely assumed too much about the constraints on your action.
Why would I run if I don't know where I am? As far as I know, the guy coming towards me in the jeep is just some passerby that is going to drive past me completely. Why should I run from him? I wouldn't know that I was supposed to run until he got there, and by then it would be too late.
Ah John, always resorting to personal attacks when things don't go your way. Three other people have chimed in on this thread, and I would consider that I was wrong in how I handled it if one of them brought it up. As sad as it is to say, I can't apply logic to a crazy person's actions. I took what would be the likely response to your actions from start to finish.
As for creativity, I let my actions and achievements speak for themselves. The fact is 18 months later, your still worried about past actions in a game. The rest of ua come here for fun, after dealing with real life concerns. Take it for what it is, and don't let a game affect you like this one obviously has.
Adam