Biases

I was just thinking about something. Is there a world in which indigs can do things, but versers can't? We were talking about why the biases stop at 15@10 some time ago. I suggested the idea that a 16@ bias defies the laws of biases, and you can perform skills anywhere. The 16@1 skill would be "Use curved out psionic skills in a flatline world." It would have the flatline roll in a flatline world, plus a second roll for the skill in a flatline bias, but it could work.

MJ said if you did that, you also have to consider the negative side. I was just thinking that in a -16@ bias, it again defies the laws of biases, and indigs can perform 15@10 skills, but versers can't even do a TK pulse. I just thought this might be useful to someone.

The -16 bias would be the equivalent of an indigs-only 15@10. It would be a flatline bias, or worse, for versers.

no, there CANNOT be a world where indigs can do something and versers cannot, because if the indigs can do something, that pushes up the bias. our tech world bias is 12@ or more, because we do 12@ tech stuff that moves the bias up to 12@. mind, our most advanced tech may exceed the world bias for now, but it'll push up the bias too.

also, 16@s screw up the math, which wouldn't change even if an opposite can be found.

But I thought anything was possible in the Multiverse.......

This way, it works backwards. In a -16 bias, its equal to an indigs-only 15@10. In a -20 bias, it would be an indigs-only 10@ bias. So no, it doesn't screw up the math.

The 16@1 skill doesn't mess up the math either. Once learned, it's your BRA and SAL to get it to work. I don't imagine it would be used too often, but it would just be two rolls in a flatline bias instead of one.

And the verser can only learn that skill in a -16 bias world. It's the one thing the indigs can teach him.

This would be biases that defy conventional explaination.

In the multiverse, certainly, but the way biases work means that the bias of a world with 15@10 psionic users is high enough to make using 15@10 psionics at least a theoretical possiblity.

unless somthing directly screws with the verser, so as to lower the effective bias for him to too low to use 15@10 psionics, however many bonuses he has. I'm not sure if fine effective bias manipulation is okay, but you could make the verser unable to use psionics with a properly worded spell, by basically saying that extradiminsional creatures do not get to use psionics.

I edited that post many times. You might want to reread it. I think this could work. The 16@1 skill can only be learned from the indigs in a -16 bias. Not even another verser could teach it to you. It defies the laws of biases, see what I mean?

The 16@-30@ skills are "Defy Laws of Biases" and are treated as their inverse properties. 16@ is a 15@ bias. A 17@ is a 14@ and so on.

EDIT, and the 30@ skill would be easiest to learn, because it's backwards. The 30@1 skill is treated as a 1@ skill in the math, and allows up to 1@10 psionics in a flatline world. The 16@1 is treated as a 15@10, and can only be learned from an indig in a -16 world. It's the equivalent of "Do Anything".

http://gamingoutpost.com/discussions/topic/world-idea-3#post-6851 <--- MJ mentioned in his big post that while 15 bias levels was pretty arbitrary it would alter the math to change the number to 16, though you could do it if you felt like it. you'd just have to accept that chances of success were higher in 16@ worlds.

also, a -16@ should probably be a worse outright problem for you than a 15@ that counts as flatlined for you due to a magic effect.

EDIT: The suggestion strikes me as a useable mechanic, but it would be seriously screwy to tack onto the bias system. especially since you'd have to have a +30@ or sacrifice the symmetry.

Reread this whole thing again. It doesn't mess with the math at all, if you reread everything I said. It makes sense in my head. The 16@ skills can only be learned from indigs in a -16 bias. "Defy laws of biases" and no, if you reread everything, it doesn't mess with the math at all.

The 16@-30@ skills can only be learned by the verser in a -16@--30@ world, are @1 skills only, and can only be used in a flatline world, to defy the bias curve, and perform skills that would otherwise be curved out. It gives you a 0@25 bias as opposed to a 0@2 bias.

And the skills can only be taught by indigs to versers. A verser can't teach them to anyone.

And no, there is no +16@ bias, only a +16@ skill. Defies Laws of Biases, remember?

Once you learn the Defies Laws of Biases skill, the verser can perform skills inverse in a negative bias. A negative 30@ bias skill lets the verser do 1@ skills in a -30@ bias. It's exactly the opposite of the positive side. Instead of the verser being able to do things but the indig can't, the indig can do things that the verser can't. For the verser to use the 16@ skills anywhere, it's 2 rolls, first for the 16@ skill, then for the other skill they are attempting.

The 30@1 skill turns a 0@2 bias into a 0@10 bias. The 29@1 skill turns it into a 0@11, the 28@1 skill turns it into a 0@12, and so on, all the way up to 0@25 for the 16@1 skill.

And if anyone questions you on how it works, the answer is in the question. These skills are called "Defy Laws of Biases." You can do anything you want with it.

A -20@ bias would be an indigs-only 10@ bias. The verser can't do anything. However, when the -20@1 skill is learned, it allows @1 skills up to that bias level to be performed, when in a -20@ bias. You can perform @1 skills up to 10@1 in a -20@ bias, after learning that skill. All rolls on learning and using the Defy Biases skill in a negative bias, have the inverse bias bonus. So, you would have a 10@ bias, when performing your 10@1 skill in a -20 bias. Is any of this making any sense to anyone?

Ya know what? Screw this inverse bias shit. That's giving me a headache. A -16 bias allows the verser to do nothing, and indigs have the equivalent of a 1@ bias. Versers, after learning the Defy Biases skill, has the equivalent of a 1@1 bias. In other words, 1@1 skills are all the verser can do. A -30 is an indigs-only 15@10, with Defy Biases, the verser has a 15@1 bias.

It's backwards. And yes, 15@2 skills and higher are ALWAYS curved out for the verser in a Defy Biases world. (Negative 16-30 bias world.)

If a verser has 20@1 Defy Biases already, they have a 5@1 bias in a -30 world. If they can learn the -30@ Defy Biases skill, they have a 15@1 bias in a -30 world. A -30 Defy Biases skill is curved out in a -16 world. If you have a -30 Defy Biases, and land in a lower negative bias world, (-29, -28, etc.) it's completely useless.

If the verser uses Defy Biases in a negative world, they can get an @1 bias for the highest skills in that area.

The -20 Defy Biases skill, when used in a flatline world, requires two rolls against a flatline bias, and gives the verser a 0@15 bias.

Bod skills in a Defy Biases world means that someone has to start you moving, and until you learn the Defy Biases skill, if you remain stationary too long, you stop and someone has to start you. That's how they teach you to defy the bias.

Think about it. You could do a flatline body world with this. If the verser has Defy Biases.

The Defy Biases skill only works for the verser in a world with a 0@ bias, regardless of intensity. A -30@1 Defy Biases skill will work in any world with a 0@ bias, and gives the verser a 0@25 bias.

I need to amend something. The Defy Biases skill can only be taught by ANYONE in a -16@ or lower world. A verser can teach it, but only in one of those worlds. They can only teach it if their Defy Biases bias is high enough to support teaching it. Indigs can teach it all the time. Teaching it is curved out for the verser anywhere else. Also, it would have the equivalent of being taught in a -15@ bias, but could be taught regardless, since it is an @1 skill.

Once learned, though, it would give you a 15@1 bias for learning and using any skill.

I think I'm starting to ramble and repeat myself. This just seems like a really cool notion here.

Let's take your first question, and take it another way.

Yes.

You can make a powerblock like so...

"Only those with the 1232 genome, the psi-gene, can use psionic powers."

Its clear that some worlds have this. Some worlds only a few have the potential to be a psi because of genetics.

We've discussed this type of powerblock before.

Edit: In case it wasn't completely obvious, the verser in this scenario doesn't have the 1232 gene.

Eric, I am totally confused. (pronounced Con-Fuse-Ed) by what you just said.

The M15@10 Defy Biases skill is "Change World Bias." However, this skill is permanently curved out for versers, although there are ways for versers to do it. (How can it be a skill that defies biases, and have no way around its own rules?)

If this skill is ever used, and the bias is changed to something that does not support a 15@10 skill, it is unchangeable by anyone.

This is also a possible botch.

Also, the M15@10 Defy Biases "Change World Bias" would have to be performed by someone who, in real life, could have enough understanding of the biases. Someone who could prove that they had intently studied biases, what worked where and why. The Architect perhaps?

No, I got it. The M15@10 "Change World Bias" could only be performed by both a verser and an indig at the same time. Only the verser could possibly have enough understanding of the biases to even hope to get it right. Only the indig can cast the spell. Only a character that could prove he was studying biases, could assist an indig. The Architect would be a good candidate for this.

The Architect studies things. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a rudimentary chart of biases. He knows this works more often, and this works less often. I wouldn't be surprised if versers know more about biases than we could think. God knows, I learned something pretty quick!!!

I could imagine this being a really cool NPC world for The Architect. An indig with an affinity for versers, meets The Architect. He's heard about biases from versers and has seen what they both were capable of doing. (IE that versers couldn't do as much as indigs here.) Perhaps there was a war between versers and indigs. (I still say there is a planet where half the population is versers) This NPC wants The Architect to help him change the world bias to something that puts both the versers and the indigs on equal footing.

Flatline for both versers and indigs.

When versers learn the Defy Biases skill, they learn it at 3@10. It's something, either you can do it or you can't. Also, it is not possible to botch using a Defy Biases skill in a 0@ world. You can still botch on the skill, but not on using the Defy Biases skill. Either you can do it or you can't.

John, lets take this in a different direction and succeed....

You asked...

==I was just thinking about something. Is there a world in which indigs can do things, but versers can't?

There is a way to do this. Powerblock a skill, but have a 'if you have this, then the powerblock doesn't affect you'. Now only give the locals the 'this' and the versers don't have.

Voila'.

Your question is answered.

What do you think of a world that defies biases though? Where a skill like that could be learned. I mean if anything is possible in the Multiverse, then worlds that defy biases would be a reality.

I mean could there be a world where fusion-drive cars are everywhere, but scissors don't work? ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!!!

Powerblock scissors tech, and have a high-level tech bias otherwise...

Bias is a game mechanic. Not every game mechanic is possible. Well, maybe.

Free advice: Focus more on the doable. Climb the Appalachians before you try on Mt. Everest for size. Finish Music Wars or the Amish/Mormon zombie world. Write up the stats for a zombie.

That's the thing. I have a harder time focusing on one project. I'm just throwing out ideas that I'm hoping other people want to pick up. I think that zombie world would be cool.

Is there a world in which indigs can do things, but versers can't?

Not exactly. The nearest I can think to something like that is a certain conception of the Star Wars universe. In this conception, the psi bias is 15@10, and certain gifted indigs can do all kinds of tricks; but there is a tremendously high psionic static which creates a tremendous penalty against all attempts to do anything. Thus adepts are taught a skill that allows them to tap into a shared psionic mind that also exists in that universe, giving them the bonuses necessary to counter the penalties. The result is that visitors are horribly impeded by the psionic static until such time as they figure out how to devise a similar skill to "use the force", to tap into that collective mind. Since I've never run the world I've never actually worked through the mechanics of it.

In a similar way, some are faced with worlds like Narnia and Alyria, in which arcane magic is powerblocked. In such worlds holy magic might flow very freely (it does in those two) but arcane magic is impossible entirely. (It is also a shared peculiarity of those worlds that anyone who uses neutral holy magic is approached by minions of the alliance and arcane sides to persuade them to commit to one or the other; that, though, might not always be true in such worlds.)

I've also seen a world which was designed to deceive the typical verser: what appeared to be a magic teleportation device that delivered the character to the middle of a certain conflict proved ultimately to be a voice-controlled artificial-intelligence operated technological matter transmission device. It was an application of Clarke's Law (a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic) in which the technological aspects were intentionally masked to appear magical. This caused participating versers to expect magic to work well, when magic was actually flatlined.

We were talking about why the biases stop at 15@10 some time ago.

The answer to this is that it was an arbitrary decision to cover all possible realities in +/-15 levels and 10 intensities. The reasons for that decision are inconsequential. What matters is that there are only +/-15 levels by definition, and no skills can possibly exist outside that range not because they are prevented but because the definition of the range is fully inclusive. It's like asking what happens if the temperature drops below zero Kelvin--it can't, not because that's the bottom of the range but because the range is defined by the limits of reality. There is no skill below 0@0 nor above 15@10.

MJ said if you did that, you also have to consider the negative side. I was just thinking that in a -16@ bias, it again defies the laws of biases, and indigs can perform 15@10 skills, but versers can't even do a TK pulse.

Again you're bumping against definitions.

The bias in any universe for any bias area is equal to or greater than the bias of the highest biased skill which can be used by any indig in that universe. That's the definition. If the bias level is -16, that means no indig has any skill of a bias level higher than -16. That's what saying "this is the world bias level" means. Thus you can't have indigs with skills above the bias level, because by definition the bias level is defined by what skills are possible for the indigs--if the indigs have a 15@10 skill, then the bias level is not lower that 15@ and the curve is not lower than 25, and not even a -16@41 bias can satisfy that.

But I thought anything was possible in the Multiverse.......

You are confusing realities with mechanics.

I can create a character who is virtually indestructible; I cannot create a character with a damage value greater than 3@10. I achieve the difference mechanically by designing skill-based immunities, protections, invulnerabilities, and resistances (each of these a distinct concept).

I can create a weapon that will destroy planets. I cannot create a weapon with a damage category greater than obliterative. I achieve the difference by using the concepts of multiple obliterative and increasing the area, or by creating weapons that do structural damage at an obliterative level. (My impression of the Star Wars Death Star is that it does not obliterate a planet, but that it penetrates through the rust into the core in such a way that it causes the planet itself to rupture. I have only now considered the possibility that it might be what is described under 14@ transmat technology as a remote nuclear detonating device, that is, a beam that causes large quantities of matter to disintegrate at the subatomic level causing rapid nuclear decay on a large scale, the equivalent of turning a significant part of the interior of the planet into a nuclear bomb. It comes to the same thing, as weapons go, but provides an alternative explanation for how this is accomplished.)

So anything is possible in the Multiverse, but what is possible in any given universe is controlled by bias.

I'm sorry that it makes sense in your head; certainly we could have designed a system in which the bias levels went to +/-10,000. We did not. We created a system in which +/-15 levels was the totality of it.

Also, you seem to think that merely increasing the number of negative bias levels provides symmetry. This indicates that you've no concept of bias blocking. The way bias blocking works in all bias areas, by the time you've reached -15 all principles in that bias area have been completely suspended such that not even a god could do anything in that bias area in that universe. It is not merely that there are increasing penalties as the level lowers; it is also that there are entire skill areas blocked.

Let me use the psi bias area to illustrate:

Psi Bias Blocking
• -3 Psionic Devices Fail. This means that you can no longer use any psionically active materials to boost psionic power, and thus are completely dependent on individual ability. This wipes out half of the skills at levels 1 and 9.
• -5 Telekinetics Fail. This includes all the standard telekinetics of level 4 and the force generatives of level 10 plus most of the 7@ manipulate physics, 9@ manipulate chemistry, and 13@ teleportation skills.
• -7 Alterations Fail. This covers the rest of the 7@ and 9@ skills except for a few information skills, plus all the 14@ and 15@ skills.
• -8 No Indigenous Intelligence. You don't have indigs who can teach you, because any indigs that exist cannot have greater than 0@10 animal intellect.
• -10 Metabolics Fail. This covers your 5@ body controls, 6@ psychic healings, and whatever remains of the 9@ manipulate chemistry and 14@ alterations.
• -11 No Indigenous Will. Now not only can the indigs not think, they cannot choose--they can only act as directed by impulses. Pavlovian training probably would be useless in this world.
• -13 Informations Fail. We wipe out all the 3@ clairsentience and detect skills plus the handful of related skills in other levels.
• -14 No Reasonable Activity. In this world, nothing any creature does even makes sense. Creatures are driven by instinct, but the instinct seems entirely random. An indigenous creature which encountered you would decide entirely randomly whether to eat you, mate with you, ignore you, sit on you, or carry you away. If you injure it, it might respond by fighting back, fleeing, or continuing to do whatever it was just doing. It certainly can't teach you, except in the sense that by observing it you might learn that it is entirely unpredictable.
• -15 Telepathies Fail. This wipes out 0@ communication, 1@ telepathies, 2@ psionic defenses, 8@ psionic attacks, 11@ retrocognition, 12@ precognition, and any remaining psionic skills. At this point, nothing is possible psionically, not merely because everything is biased out for indigs (by the low level) and curved out for the non-indigenous visitors (such as the verser, by the curve), but because none of the fundamental principles which support the operation of psionics are true in this universe.

A -16@ bias makes no sense because there is nothing left to eliminate. Further, the possibility that there would be indigs capable of performing skills within the bias area at this level is even more ludicrous, because not only are these skills impossible for God Himself in this universe (because God will not break his own word), there cannot possibly be indigs in this world who have the ability to think, imagine, or perform any skills in this bias area.

It works the same for the other three bias areas as well. In magic, indigs become immune to magic at -6, indigenous art, music, and literature become impossible at -7, indigenous imagination vanishes at -9, arcane magic is impossible at -11, and all magic is impossible at -15. In the tech bias area energy fields fail at -7, computers and microelectronics at -8, complex chemical compounds at -9, explosives and combustion engines at -10, pressure ceases to exist at -13, combustion does not occur at -14, and all natural law is suspended at -15. In the bod area, shape and form changes are blocked at -5, symbiosis at -8, at -12 it is not possible to be separated from the ground (the universe resists independent bodies, so everything is connected to everything at all times), and at -15 there can be no physical or motive force--nothing can move itself.

Negative bias stops at -15 because there is nothing left to eliminate below that. Extending it beyond that does nothing.

Eric's right--there are ways to impede a verser from doing some things that can be done by some indigs, by using very technical power blocks. The game seriously frowns on this--the player character is not supposed to be disadvantaged by taking abilities away from him but not from the indigs. That's part of the entire concept of the bias system, that a verser who is a wizard is not completely helpless in a universe in which no one at all believes in or performs magic, but at the same time he doesn't become the ultimate power of the universe because he can do anything he can imagine in such a world. If you put me in a world where I could not use psionics without the t232 genome, I would turn my attention to technological and magical means of giving myself the t232 genome to unlock my psionic potential. Since I can probably do that by creating a T12@8 Mutagenic Virus (and there must be millions of indigs who would be very pleased to support such research so they can overthrow the domination of the psions in their world) or by a M2@10 Recover Lost Skills (an unusual application, but why not?), it is probably feasible for me to get myself into that elite group soon enough, once I've diagnosed the problem.

I have a harder time focusing on one project. I'm just throwing out ideas that I'm hoping other people want to pick up.

And herein lies the big problem, and one that most creative minds struggle against. I will admit that it was not until I was involved at The Forge that I came to understand this: no one will take your ideas, because ideas are cheap and fundamentally worthless. I can have a thousand ideas in a month; I wrote a column under the title Game Ideas Unlimited for exactly that reason, and Gareth-Michael Skarka did a column at RPGnet under the title Fifty-two Pickup (imagine me remembering that title) in which he designed and published and gave away a game a week for a year. Your ideas are worthless, because everyone has ideas, more ideas than we can use.

What has value, and the only thing that has value, is the ability to take an idea and bring it to a useful finished form. That's why Eric keeps pointing you back to the Music Wars world. Personally, I don't much care for it--but he's right, it has potential, and with the contributions of several skilled world designers (including Eric and Scott, who are among the best around) that potential is very near realization. But potential is worthless. Only realization has value.

So if you want to have a positive impact on play around here, don't start another world--finish one.

And stop trying to tweak the mechanics into what you think they ought to be until you've figured out what they really are, why they are the way they are, how they work and what they do, and what happens when you use them as they exist. You can't create anything meaningful in terms of changing the game mechanics because you don't understand those mechanics well enough to work within them. If Scott came to me and said that he had this idea for expanding the bias levels a bit, I would listen, because Scott understands the existing bias levels maybe as well as I do, maybe as well as Kyler does, and a lot better than a lot of other people who have tried to work with them. When you make these suggestions, you merely show how ignorant you are of how the game actually works, and it embarrasses and frustrates me to have you say things that are clearly ignorant, in both senses of the word.

--M. J. Young

MJ, I think you missed the entire point I was making with the -16 bias. That's OK, because you're right. I am ignorant of game mechanics.

What I was thinking was more along the lines of an entirely different bias scale. I can't get past the notion that if anything is possible, then every rule in the book would be thrown completely out the door on some worlds.

Consider this one dropped by me. Perhaps Eric or someone else could decipher my ramblings, but until then, just consider it an RROAM. "Random Ramblings of a Madman."

MJ, Two Posts

Another thing that I thought worthy of note. My psychosis therapy involves putting myself into a low level psychotic state, and teaching myself to control it. My doctor said that people who have too many psychotic episodes tend to lose higher logic functions. She said a master chess player lost all ability to play chess. I find my imagination stimulated. Exactly the opposite effect that my doctor would have predicted. In a way, this thread and others are also documentation of my mind at work in a mildly psychotic state. The potential value to the medical community is priceless.

EDIT: And MJ, when I used to Spam your mailbox? That is also documentation of my mind at work, on an anti-psychotic. You could probably argue about which one is worse, but I think this is at least creative, if also repetitive.

EDIT AGAIN: (Don't worry, this is my last edit to this post, I promise) Three years ago, I would have been screaming obscenities and in a great deal of pain. Now, I write threads that are 2 dozen posts of (potentially) useful information and ideas. Music Wars was the end result of one of these writing jigs of mine. I'm no psychiatrist, but I would have to consider that a marked improvement, wouldn't you?

I can't get past the notion that if anything is possible, then every rule in the book would be thrown completely out the door on some worlds.

There really are two answers to this--one no, the other yes.

The reason for the no answer is simple. The notion is that anything is possible, in the sense that it is possible to create any kind of universe. One must keep the universe and the character distinct in this. For example, it is possible to create a universe in which undead vampires prowl the night, creatures who are possessed by evil demonic spirits due to having been bitten by another of their kind when they were human. It is not possible arbitrarily to announce that the verser character now is such a vampire, having been bitten and died the death of the vampire and come back in an undead form. This would be unfair to the player, whose entire investment of self is in that character.

Thus everything that has to do with possibility breaks down like this: anything the referee can imagine a world being like can be accomplished as an existing world by using the game rules to achieve this, and without reference to the player character; anything the player can imagine his character can learn or become in some universe, by some means, and he is guaranteed the integrity of his character, that what he learns in any universe he can use in any other universe in which such skills are possible.

Saying that all things are possible does not mean you can toss out the rules, because the rules are not part of the realities. As another illustrative example, it is not possible in Multiverser to create a universe which is the only existing universe in the multiverse--not because it is not possible that that might be true in reality, but because it is contrary to the rules of the game. The rules form the structure within which the possibilities exist; they are not themselves among the possibilities. Thus using the rules I can create a universe in which technology and magic are both high. The way I do that is by setting bias accordingly. I could, of course, throw out the bias rules completely--but what is the consequence of this?

1. Nothing is possible, because the universe does not allow any skill checks in any bias area, because bias, which is integral to the possibility of performing a skill, does not exist--not different from -15@0?
2. Everything is automatic, without failure or botch or even degree of success because there is no bias and therefore skill checks become unnecessary?
3. All biases flatline to 0@0, so that only @0 and @1 skills are possible and bias has no effect--not different from simply setting the bias there?
4. All biases are effectively the maximum 15@10 because everything is possible and relatively easy, although skill still matters--not different from setting the bias at 15@10?

Notice that of those, the only possible outcome that cannot be achieved under the bias rules is the one in which every skill check is a complete success. However, I contend that such an imagined world is not merely unplayable, it is unimaginable. You have a perfect chance of shooting me, and will never miss; I have a perfect chance of dodging the bullet and will never be hit. Absent some sort of mechanic to determine what is possible and how possible it is, or how we do relative to each other, we can never resolve that situation save by citing Schroedinger's Cat, and agreeing that every time we do anything confrontational we each split into two people in two universes, one in which you beat me and the other in which I beat you, and we keep playing from there in both worlds, or all four worlds, or all thirty-seven thousand three hundred eight-six worlds. It's not a workable reality.

As to the "yes" answer, yes indeed it is possible to toss out any rule in Multiverser--provided that you replace it with a substitutionary rule. This is most commonly done with game system worlds. For example, were I to put someone with no magical abilities whatsoever into a Dungeons & Dragons game world, I would eliminate all reference to the mag bias, because it is not needed. The only way to learn magic in that world is to learn it from a teacher; all the magic is fire-and-forget, and must be re-learned after each casting; all the limitations are built into the system in that world. Thus the Multiverser mag bias rule becomes superfluous, because the player character is completely ruled by the Dungeons & Dragons magic rules. I still need the tech bias rules, though, if he brought anything to the world that is above the roughly 5@ bias of that world--like a wristwatch--because I have to use Multiverser rules to cover anything the verser character brings to the world that is outside the rules of the game world he is visiting.

You can do that with worlds you design for Multiverser play. Working with Eric on his Northgate City supers world, I suggested that to make the world work, the skill ability component of all skill checks should be multiplied by its own level, such that a 1@5 skill gets +15, a 2@5 skill gets +50, and a 3@5 skill gets +105, making supers within the metropolitan area pretty much beatable only by other supers or by exploiting their weaknesses. However, tricks like this have to be very carefully fine-tuned, because it's easy to get undesired results when you change the fundamental structures of the realities. It can be done, but it is not done by tossing out existing rules, but by modifying the system within its own design, or by bringing in replacement systems for very specific applications.

In short, anything is possible, but it is made possible by keeping the rules intact.

--M. J. Young

And such a change is something that I would not be likely to make without help from MJ. Probably the best way to approach such a thing is to say "I want to do something weird. How do I do that?"

But even better, FOR NOW, is to not do things weird. Learn how the normal things work, and then you can learn how to play with them.

I'm going to ask an "I want to do something weird. How?" question:

If I wanted to run Dark Honor Empire, but jack up the Magic bias to include Possession (of the supernatural entity sort), how would I have to change that world to account for it? Obviously the local holy man will probably know a few 2@ curatives and so on, but does magic HAVE to be prevalent and widely used in order to have a high bias, or can magic be powerful but rare?

It can be powerful but rare if there is a reason - any sort of reason - that very few people in this world practice magic.

(That was going to be a longer post, but I just realized I'm tired after staying up for election news, and that's the meat of the answer anyway.)

EDIT: If it is your intention that ONLY supernatural entities - i.e., non-indigs - be capable of such powerful magic as possession, then all you need to do is raise the bias intensity to the point that possession is within the curve. Depending on what the bias was to start with, that could end up having very little effect indeed on the indigs' magical abilities; you really can't do much with a M0@20 bias unless you're a verser or a demon.

And such a change is something that I would not be likely to make without help from MJ. Probably the best way to approach such a thing is to say "I want to do something weird. How do I do that?"

But even better, FOR NOW, is to not do things weird. Learn how the normal things work, and then you can learn how to play with them.

The whole first page that I wrote. I know I called the scale a -16 through -30 bias. There seems to be quite a bit of confusion about what I was saying. In order to understand that, you first have to forget everything you know about how the existing bias scale works. This isn't a -16 bias on the scale that MJ invented. What I was saying is that once the scale hits -16, the laws of how biases work change completely. No one even seemed to notice the words Defy Bias, even though they were prominently written several times.

I may need to be more observant of the rules, but to understand what I was saying, everyone else needs to be more observant of what I wrote on the first page. Just forget everything you currently know about how biases work. This would be an entirely new bias system. For your purposes, it would probably require an addendum to the rulebook. If ANYTHING is possible, then there are worlds where the current bias scale is completely useless.

No one even seemed to notice the words Defy Bias, even though they were prominently written several times . . . If ANYTHING is possible, then there are worlds where the current bias scale is completely useless.

No, we got that. The thing is, we're not just saying "anything is possible," because then why would we write rules? We're not even saying "anything is possible, and here are some rules that cover some of those possibilities (but throw them away and make new ones sometimes)"; what we ARE saying is, "anything is possible, and these are the rules that make anything possible." For every possibility, there is a way to run it in the game within the rules, as they stand.

That's a bold claim, but E.R. Jones and MJ Young worked very hard to be able to make it. The idea is that as referee, you can do any sort of world you like without having to throw out the bias system and come up with something new. That's the real power of this ruleset; after all, if you needed to toss out the rules to be able to do some worlds, why buy the book?

OK Scott, tell me, is there a skill that you can learn in the current game rules that would let you do 15@10 psionics in a 0@2 bias world? What I was saying is that in some worlds, the biases are so strange that you need to learn this skill to do any psionics in that world, with the side effect that the skill would let you do 15@10 psionics in a 0@2 bias. Maybe there is a way to do that, I wouldn't know. But it was just something running through my mind whilst doing psychosis therapy. You would have had to be inside my head at that time to fully grasp what was going on there.

Define your question in the terms of powers and capabilities rather than in terms of rules.

You can't break the rules.

You can twist powers and such to a very great degree.

Define your question in the terms of powers and capabilities rather than in terms of rules.

OK Eric. Tadeusz lands in a world where indigs are openly doing psionics and magic. He assumes that the biases must be really high, and so he tries some psionics and magic, only to find out that can't even do 1@1 mind reading. Upon further study, he finds that no psionic or magic skills work for him at all, but all of the indigs are doing them like it's nothing.

Tadeusz meets the right people who have experience with versers, and they teach him a skill that lets him do psionics and magic in this world. Tadeusz first has to do this skill, then his psionics, but he can do them.

A few decades later, Tadeusz verses out, and lands in a flatline bias world. A 0@2 bias. Just for the kicks of it, he tries that new skill that he learned in the last world, and then tries psionics. He finds that he can now do psionics in a world that is flatline. A few days later, my character verses in. The bias is flatline for me, so I can't do psionics. Tadeusz can, but I can't because I don't have this skill. How's that?