Multiple posts, more than 10 hours after last.
Sorry for the repeat postings, this was just really exciting to me when I realized it.
Anyway, I asked two other friends of mine who are smokers, and they both agreed with me that winning a lifetime supply of cigarettes would be both 1 in 1,000 good luck and 1 in 1,000 bad luck. To understand that, you'd have to understand the mind of a smoker. To understand that, you'd have to be a smoker. In other words, I hope no one else ever understands who doesn't understand already.
actually, it would be more like a 16 for the lifetime supply/illegalization, because they can't make up their mind. A 3 would be God reaching down from heaven and curing your affliction, and making sure you can never be addicted again, and possibly at the same time curing all the side effects you have built up over the years. A 30 would be more like some terrorists kidnap and force you to watch as they smoke in front of you, and they don;t feed you anything, or something.
actually, it would be more like a 16 for the lifetime supply/illegalization,
That would mean that, getting a lifetime supply of cigarettes was the single most likely thing to happen when you bought cigarettes. No, that GE chart is accurate. If you're not a smoker, you couldn't understand. Smoke for 14 years, try to quit, then it will make perfect sense to you. Only a smoker would understand.
From what I know, addicts both do and don't want to quit, but the 3 I speculated on would erase all of it, including the desire. I see your point on the lifetime supply, and acknowledge I don't fully understand. However, there is no need to be rude and say non-smokers have no right to answer (my tone of voice would be very slightly reproving right now).
From what I know, addicts both do and don't want to quit
Yeah, that's why it's both a 3 and a 30, and why a non-smoker doesn't have the right to argue about it. It would be equivalent to you telling Albert Einstein that he got E=MC2 wrong, when you have no idea what you're talking about.
I've given your argument some thought, and come to a conclusion that is best expressed by a vulgarity I am not willing to post, so I will instead explain why your sophistry is not much more than so much natural fertilizer.
The very fact that it is the best thing would prevent it from being the worst; the very fact that it is the worst thing would prevent it from being the best. Therefore, it cannot be either the best or the worst if it is also the other. The best thing would have to be something that was not also the worst, and the worst thing something that was not also the best.
The reason your suggestion works is that you have come at it from the wrong end. It is not that we need to figure out what GE roll can explain any particular outcome, but rather what outcome will arise from any particular GE roll. That is, to ask whether winning a lifetime supply of cigarettes (which it occurs to me is an inherently small prize, as the one who wins it will undoubtedly not live so long as he otherwise would have) is a 3 or a 30 is an invalid question. The question is, if the player rolls a 3 or a 30, what will happen? We know that if he rolls a 3 he will not win the lifetime supply of cigarettes, because we know that that is a really bad outcome; we know, too, that if he rolls a 30 he will not win the lifetime supply of cigarettes, because that is a really good outcome. We conclude, then, that if the character enters a contest to win a lifetime supply of cigarettes, the result cannot be determined by a general effects roll unless we first define the nature of our expectations, our hopes and fears. If those hopes are to win and those fears are also to win, the General Effects Roll is invalidated as a mechanic for determining the outcome, and the outcome will have to be determined by one of two other methods:
- The referee can determine the probable odds of winning any particular prize in the contest and roll the dice to determine whether the player character has managed to win. Probably the simplest way to do this would be to decide how many digits there should be in the contest entry numbers (e.g., there will be one million entrants, that is 1,000,000, therefore we have a six digit (000000 to 999999) range), letting the player write out his contest entry number to that many digits, and rolling that many dice once for each prize to be awarded to see whether his number arises.
- The referee can decide for plot reasons what outcome he wants in this situation, and declare what prize, if any, the character has won.
The point, again, is that the question is not how this result you can imagine relates to a GE roll, but what given this situation would be the best or worst possible outcomes. What you have defined is, quite simply, a result that a general effects roll could never produce, because it does not fit any of the definitions.
--M. J. Young
MJ, start smoking. Smoke for 14 years. Then, it will make complete and total sense what I'm saying. Game mechanics or no game mechanics. I asked 2 other smokers, and they both agreed that winning a lifetime supply of cigarettes would be both 1 in 1,000 good luck and also 1 in 1,000 bad luck. Start smoking, smoke for 14 years, then try to quit. It will make perfect sense to you too.
John, MJ is not questioning whether or not the situation you described is both 1 in 1,000 good luck and 1 in 1,000 bad luck--in fact, he says so right above your post if you would read it. What he is saying, is that in this situation, you cannot use the general effects dice because of exactly what you are saying. In any situation in which a general effects roll is applicable, you cannot have a 3 and a 30 be the same thing, simply because that would create a situation in which the general effects dice are not applicable. Is it possible to close threads? Because I think this one should be.
mistake
So then what is being said here is that a 3 and 30 GE roll can't be the same, but not because 1 in 1,000 good luck and 1 in 1,000 bad luck can't be the same thing, but because the game mechanics don't work that way. Well, I wasn't really using the game mechanics in the sense of game mechanics, but just as a vehicle for the idea of 1 in 1,000 good luck and 1 in 1,000 bad luck being the same.
If that can happen, then my point was made. If the game mechanics can't handle it, then that's totally different. I was really just using the GE roll as a vehicle for the idea of 1 in 1,000 good luck and 1 in 1,000 bad luck being the same.
I'm glad you see why a 3 and a 30 can't be the same when rolling a GE roll in Multiverser.
Why did people get upset by that? It was just a dumb idea that I had, that's all.
We conclude, then, that if the character enters a contest to win a lifetime supply of cigarettes, the result cannot be determined by a general effects roll unless we first define the nature of our expectations, our hopes and fears. If those hopes are to win and those fears are also to win, the General Effects Roll is invalidated as a mechanic for determining the outcome, and the outcome will have to be determined by one of two other methods:...
What the referee cannot do is use a general effects roll to determine an outcome in a contest in which there is no best outcome and no worst outcome. That is not something a GE roll can determine.
After rereading MJ's last reply, I see this was the part of it that I didn't catch. It's not that 1 in 1,000 good luck and 1 in 1,000 bad luck can't be the same thing, it's that a GE roll isn't the mechanic you would use to determine such a thing. Well really, I was just using the GE roll as a vehicle for the idea that 1 in 1,000 good luck and 1 in 1,000 bad luck could be exactly the same. I think I've adequately proven THAT can be true. I'm not quite certain what the difference is, but that's not something I really want to waste any more time over. I guess it's another of those "You'd have to see it through my eyes" kind of thing.
I just rolled a 3 in real life. I asked one of my neighbors for a cigarette. He was out of cigarettes, but said that if I went and got him a pack, he would buy me a pack. When I got back there with the cigarettes, he invited me to have a bratwurst with him. We hung out and talked for a few. So, in a hope to bum a cigarette, I got a whole pack of cigarettes and dinner. That was a 3 GE roll.
I just like putting real life into Multiverser terms, in an attempt to better understand the game.