recently, in Harry's thread, there was a discussion concerning...well, look at the thread title. Anyway, I thought it best not to clutter up his thread.
To recap, Harry's character has been using a magical ritual that restores his energy as though he had a full night's sleep. He has been using it almost constantly for...two game years? The problem is, sleep is a mental restorative as well as physical.
does his character know that? Is his spell intended to restore just bodily rest, or fully restore? The thing is, even if it does, he may be becoming reliant on it, such that it would be very difficult for him to sleep for real at all.
I quote Sarah Ledoux (qualifications here:http://www.linkedin.com/pub/sarah-ledoux/8/68a/a85) when I say "While some people may like to believe that they can train their bodies to not require as much sleep as they once did this belief is false. Sleep is needed to regenerate certain parts of the body, especially the brain, so that it may continue to function optimally. After periods of extended wakefulness or reduced sleep neurons may begin to malfunction, visibly effecting a person's behavior. Some organs, such as muscles, are able to regenerate even when a person is not sleeping so long as they are resting. This could involve lying awake but relaxed within a quite environment. Even though cognitive functions might not seem necessary in this scenario the brain, especially the cerebral cortex, is not able to rest but rather remains semi-alert in a state of "quiet readiness". Certain stages of sleep are needed for the regeneration of neurons within the cerebral cortex while other stages of sleep seem to be used for forming new memories and generating new synaptic connections. The effects of sleep deprivation on behavior have been tested with relation to the presence of activity in different sections of the cerebral cortex." She also says "Sleep deprived test subjects have difficulties thinking of imaginative words or ideas. Instead, they tend to choose repetitious words or clichéd phrases. Also, a sleep-deprived individual is less able to deliver a statement well. The subject may show signs of slurred speech, stuttering, speaking in a monotone voice, or speaking at a slower pace than usual'.(http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1690)(the link has other useful info on the subject of sleep deprivation)(if I find another link with corroborating info, I will edit it in)
So my question is, does his magic restore his mind, and even if it does has he become reliant on magically aided sleep deprivation, either mentally or physically? And what would happen should he hit a flatline magic world?
I will address the other parts of the thread title in a separate post.
I maintain that the spell must and does restore his mind and brain, because it restores him in every way that a full night's rest can. It is magic. As a curative, it is not removing his need for sleep - it is fulfilling it.
I mentioned in that same thread that I never use stimulants, and Scott correctly pointed out that coffee and tea, and even chocolate is a kind of stimulant. Granted, I have had them, but only a very few times. So I told him that I drink water 98% of the time, and moon water on special occasions.
One might ask what moon water is. He did. I decided to go into depth here, because we were already discussing religious things on these forums. it is a pagan practice wherein one places water outside during a certain phase of the moon for the whole night, and bring it inside where the sun cannot touch it. The moon is of important religious significance to some faiths, and this 'water untouched by the sun's heat and touched only by the cleansing power of the moon contains great magical power' (I forget who said that). One thing I have observed is that moon water seems to be perpetually cool and slake the thirst exceptionally, even during the hottest summer day it seems like ice-water (this is for full-moon water, not other kinds). The more consecutive days you place the water outside where the moon can shine on it without the sun ever touching it, the more power it gains.
One very often prays the <insert God of appropriate practicing faith> to bless this water , and full moon water is the most common type.
The different phases of the moon correlate to different aspects of magical practice, and the significance can vary from person to person.
The new moon often correlates with new beginnings, a cosmic renewal. This is an excellent time to BEGIN a magical working, and the water of a new moon is excellent for starting something, such as praying to meet someone romantically interesting, or a venture to get you out of financial straits, etc. The end of one thing, the start of another.
The full moon is associated with power and life. Nature's energies are at it's most vibrant, and the water from a full moon serves as a focus for your will and an aid in calling upon appropriate spirits. It also serves to bring one closer to their Gods.
When the moon is increasing towards full, magical workings are often geared towards growth (kinda obvious why).
When it is waning, it is time for deconstruction and the ending of the old, and cleansing. It is also very closely associated with healing and the removal of curses.
Note that this only applies to faiths that believe the moon has power, believe in magical workings, and that it can have very different meanings in some faiths. This is based on Wicca.
I also mentioned water from a blue moon; a Blue moon is when two full moons occur in a single month, and is seen as one of the most magically powerful moments ever, akin to full eclipses and a new or full moon on Samhain (Hallow's Eve (the holiday that led to Halloween)).
If anyone would like more information on these kinds of religious practices, I would be more than happy to address your questions in my email, which I check every other day, unless you would rather have it on the boards for some reason. Genericfantasyname@yahoo.com
Yes, I figured as much but it is safer to ask. My biggest question, though, is does he have a chance to become dependent on it?
Well, I've never had any kind of magical sleeping pills, but I did get hooked on an anti-psychotic. When I first started taking it, I slept for 16 hours solid. I didn't mind that a bit!!!! After a while, I got to a more normal sleep pattern. My doctor swore up and down that it wasn't habit forming...... When I stopped taking it, I didn't hardly sleep for 3 days. Maybe 2 hours the whole time.
Point is, I know about effects like that, if anyone needs any information on them.
(Doing Therapy)
I didn't address the dependency issue for two reasons which are really the same reason. First, it's not my game, so I don't have the final say. Second, I imagine it's something that will be decided when it comes up - if it ever comes up, which given the low bias of the skill might not be for a long time. MJ isn't the kind to borrow trouble. (Both reasons are really the same reason: I'm not making the call because I don't have to know the answer.)
I could only use a skill like that very occasionally. I enjoy sleeping too much. It's the one and only time when the psychosis is completely gone.
(Doing Therapy)
Hmmm, yes, I suppose if an unpleasant effect that you detest is totally gone during sleep, sleep would be a blessing. Me, I can't stand sleep, I am too hyperactive to want to stop thinking actively, but I know I have to-I have tried the never go to sleep route, and it did indeed get to the point where I couldn't think.
That's when I decided to do some research on it, and found out that areas of the brain, such as the prefrontal cortex, effectively shuts down, and your thinking skills are shunted into different parts of the brain that can handle those tasks, like math, but less effectively than the main areas. When you haven't slept in a great long while without some magical aid, heh, it gets to the point where you have hallucinations, and have as much mind left as a shrub. Plus, it gets very hard to actually start sleeping again in some infrequent cases, I forget what caused that.
Oh, and John-your character could use that skill as much as Harry, your psychosis was cured remember? I think you meant you personally, but I thought I'd mention it.
Psychotic or not, I still enjoy sleeping. When I get to Heaven, first thing I'm going to do is go to bed, tell God "Wake me up in 400 years." I mean, what's 400 years in eternity?
If I used a skill like that, it would only be for emergencies where I had to stay awake.
Also, I too have had some strange experiences with sleep deprivation. I was once awake for 3 days (A different time) I was seeing rabbits on the carpet, snakes crawling around on the walls, it would almost have been cool if it wasn't so freaky. When I finally sacked out, I slept for 25 hours solid.
(Doing Therapy)
As to the connection with Harry, he is using holy magic specifically designed to give him all the necessary benefits of a good night's sleep, and to remove all the detriments that sleep removes, so at least in connection with him it's a moot point: the gods to whom he prays will give him the full package of rest.
(if I find another link with corroborating info, I will edit it in)
Personally I would rather that you did not do so. Forum posts are not articles, and even if they were I am reticent to read them again. It is much better to post your additional information in a supplemental post--after all, it's a forum, and you can post supplemental posts all you want, and that way I, and everyone else, can go directly to the new information and not have to check old posts for edits or go back and reread them when someone says they've been changed.
Some forums do not allow editing at all; ours allows edits for about a week, except for moderators who can always edit.
As far as what to do in flatline magic worlds, well, he's in one--the spell works as bad here as anywhere, unless he finds himself in a world where curatives are powerblocked or the mag bias goes negative (both rare). The thing about flatlining bias is some thing will work in nearly any universe, even in a flatlined world; those things are the lowest intensity skills at each level in the bias area. Removing fatigue is among the simplest of magical curatives, and that's what he's used for his sleep replacement skill.
I have read a lot about sleep deprivation, but noticed for myself when I was younger than most people here that I tended to be much more suicidal when I was sleep-deprived. I try to avoid sleep deprivation, but it doesn't always work--like last night, when my mother-in-law stayed up until after two, woke me three times between four twenty and five because she was thirsty, had to go to the bathroom, and then again was thirsty, woke me at seven thirty because she didn't want to stay in bed any longer, and got me out of bed three more times before noon, the last of which I decided was too close to the time I promised I would get up to be worth going back to bed--although I am sorely tempted to tell her that I need a four-hour uninterrupted block of sleep in order to get the REM sleep necessary to function, and if I don't get that between my bedtime and when she awakens me, breakfast will be delayed until I do get that four hour block of sleep.
So if I seem techy today, you know why.
--M. J. Young
Hey MJ, just for myself, if you skipping the forum means you get (at least) an extra hour of sleep, do it. I certainly wouldn't begrudge you that. If anyone else does, give me their address and I'll go to their house with a baseball bat.
(Doing Therapy)
All right, if I remember to find more info on sleep deprivation (it never hurts to teach!), I'll post the link in a new post and mention I had said I would do it.
Flatline bias: Ah, I didn't realize it was an @1. Well then, the entire point is moot, eh? Well, it IS something to consider for some; someone might like roleplaying such an odd addiction someday, and the sleep related info could be useful to someone.
MJ: I was wondering if a sticky thread with links to all of the game threads, including archives, would be useful. I could compile the data put it in order by character then chronology, and then it would be relatively simple to find any game thread anyone wants to read.
I had a real hard time getting into the archived threads, and I think I had to go backwards through a character's thread, going back one thread at a time until I hit the archive. Just thought it might be useful. Thoughts?
EDIT: cross posted with John. I, too, feel no urge to cost you sleep and family time just to run my game. If it would mean you overwork yourself less, you can skip my thread when you are pressed for time or are just plain tired, I don't mind.
MJ: I was wondering if a sticky thread with links to all of the game threads, including archives, would be useful.
In theory, we have a tag for that. I think it's "games," but it might be "play."
All of the games I run are supposed to be under the tag "Scott," but on occasion I run into an irritating phenomenon where the forum arbitrarily decides to tag the thread "scott-1" instead of "scott" (which, for some reason, looks like "Scott" everywhere except the url). So there are a few threads that won't show up if you click that tag.
Hmm, I just thought it would be useful to have ALL of them listed in one spot, including archived ones. For example, I can't seem to find Graeme's thread before the John II is not at home gather. I'll have to look again, but you know what I mean.
Yes. I'm sure no one will object if you post such a thread. I'm not sure that anyone else will necessarily help you with it, but if you're willing to do it yourself, go for it.
I think I will add it to my list of things to do, but not in my promise section, heh. I probably will.
Well, if I do, and it isn't made sticky, I'll have to randomly post in it to keep it alive. I'm making the list, but unless Mj tells me he can make it sticky or something, or he doesn't mine me posting in it just to keep it near the top, I won't bother, I'll just have the links if anyone wants them. I found a link in a very early post that lets me search the archives.
Brock--
I can make it sticky; like you, I don't like to promise. We have quite a few sticky threads already on the Multiverser forum, and it will be a bit ridiculous if we get to the point that the entire first page of Multiverser forum threads are stickies. Of course, there are new threads periodically, with this many players, so it might be that there will be something new to post often enough to keep it visible. (It depends more on how many other threads people post.)
--M. J. Young
Well, OK. I have already compiled an incomplete list; all the major players and MOST of their threads except Gabby, gotta get hers.
Then I gotta get the ones that didn;t play much; I'll post it later