John, your question ("why does it need to be post-apocalyptic?") posted while I was typing; I didn't ignore you, I just didn't see it 'til now. My answer:
It doesn't, strictly speaking. I think it helps a lot, though. First off, it gives the world some history. It explains why things are the way they are, even though we still have New York and Los Angeles and England and Highway 66. If music had been this powerful since pre-history, would the people of the world really have developed into the same nations that they did in OUR world? And if they didn't, why are the Rock folks playing Elvis? And why is Jazz playing music that we all know good and well came out of Harlem, and why did Mozart write all the same pieces he did in our Vienna? In fact, why was there a Vienna in the first place if music and psionics and so forth could have influenced the rise or fall of the Roman Empire? Or the fall of Egypt? Or of Sumer?
My answer, and I think the answer Eric was thinking of when he wrote that post about the Star Wars Defense System way back when, is that this world used to be our world - but then something changed it.
It doesn't have to be a wasted, barren stretch of lonely highway in the desert. You can have plenty of survivors in the cities - thousands, maybe millions - competing over territory, ammunition, control of the radio towers, and simply over dominance for their chosen form of music. Society does thrive - in very small pockets, divided by factions which war against others in part so they can protect the micro-communities they've rebuilt.
1. I'm interested. Also, in another post, I have a list of d20 How the Universe and/or Earth got started. I wouldn't mind seeing the Discordian version.
2. Needs because if they are twin worlds, they need to have a lot of similarities. Now, if they are not twins, then fine.
In Farmland Alpha and Beta--the strategy that might save you in one, might kill you in the other, and they look the same. In Mary Piper Alpha and Beta (And Gamma and Delta and Epsilon actually), there is a mode of conveyance that does certain things. In each world, the mode is different. In Gothika and Fantastique which I made for 4th Book, both start with the funeral of Viceroy Abraham Lincoln's funeral. And then both swing into Steampunk. But one is the best hopes, and the other is the worst nightmares version of Steampunk.
I could not put Gothika and Farmland together and call them Twin Worlds.
I have a pair of worlds in conception, one is high technology, and the other is high magic which does the same thing, and both worlds have the same social crisis--France in 2030 with the Clash of Fascisms theses of how things are going to turn out. In one, you can get on an elevator connected to a skyhook made of carbon-carbon nanofiber or some such thing and ride to orbit. In the other, you can climb up the mystical world-tree Yggdrasil and climb up the Roof of the World, and through it to where the gods live in their city on the top of the Roof.
If they are Twin worlds, you do want duplication. However, as I've said, Alpha is almost done. I'm waiting on you. I'm still hoping that you can do the integration of guns and factions.
Yes, Alpha used to be our world. I'd like it if the same could be said of Beta.
What if the apocalypse is not an apocalypse in the traditional sense? In Beta world, the apocalypse was a virus that mutated some people. That's why the psionic and magic powers are so prevalent. Does it necessarily need to be a nuclear apocalypse? Perhaps this was a germ warfare apocalypse that got out of hand. Some people got powers, some people did this, some people did that. Technology was not destroyed at all.
TAD WROTE:
"Yes, Alpha used to be our world. I'd like it if the same could be said of Beta"
I'm wondering what you mean by this. Johnostevens and I came up with some ideas for this, but aside from that, you were never cut out of the loop on it. Of course it is "Our World" It belongs to "The Frequenters of GamingOutpost.com" Or something. Just a dumb thought I had.
I got it. The changing event was the type of apocalypse. A nuclear vs a virus. Thoughts?
Read Wodium's post for the context. Alpha is based on the world of 2007 Earth. Nuclear war comes, in a small dose. Music Wars start thereafter.
Beta started as a Twin world, but then mutated to a contingency world. I'd rather it were a twin world, although I can work with a contingency. Its not as good tho'.
Yes, Beta could have a bio apocalypse. It obviously has to have something different to fit the 'Champions of Music' idea. And Alpha doesn't hardly have technology destroyed, more the large organizations were destroyed, and a lot of people.
But I will say this: Once you pick the apocalypse for Beta, there is no going back. Ground rules once set, stay set. So decide if you want a bio disaster, or Wodium's Whacky World of Warped Wonders disaster, or whatever. Once you decide, I'll go with it, but if you change your mind, I'm bailing. So think carefully, make sure you get what you want, and then tell me, and I'll be available to help.
What's this integration of weapons for alpha that you keep talking about? Putting the weapons into the character sheet? You told me to do that a few days ago. I'm not sure exactly what it is you want me to do with that, so if you could clarify it a bit, I'd appreciate it.
As far as twin worlds or contingency worlds, I have no clue what you're talking about. I figured we were just making two different versions of the world. I did not realize that there were "Rules" for how to do it. As far as why I didn't want an apocalypse, I keep thinking of that as a nuclear disaster. If what Scott is saying fits your description, but does not mean a nuclear Armageddon, I'll think about it. I'd like to discuss it further before making any decisions one way or the other. Maybe later I'll go back and reread what Scott had. I'm too tired to think about it very hard at the moment.
SCOTT WROTE:
In John's world, Music Wars Beta, things are wilder, more fantastic; the holocaust has reshaped the world and changed what it means to be human. Music is everything, the key to reality itself, and what's left of society revolves around it. Everywhere, followers of the myriad genre-factions do battle, each in the hopes that his own vision of what the New World should be will take hold once his own genre dominates the globe. Powerful musician-champions on every side wield incredible abilities in defense of their music and ideals, each one attempting to lead his people into a new Golden Age of [Insert Genre] . . .
Nifty? Or not so nifty?
Nifty. I think I just misunderstood what you meant by apocalypse. Would this work with the Germ Warfare version of the apocalypse? If so, I think we may have the basis of our world. More discussion first though.
johnostevens wrote something about the origins of some characters. I think it could work as a possible start for the Music Wars. The people he mentions were among the first to have the powers, and they were also the first to realize their full potential. They're key players in the world, maybe not upper echelon of any faction, but key members nonetheless.
There is a list of weapons you mostly created that you wanted for each faction. Most of those weapons are created in lists on the GO site. If you can put those weapons with all the relevant details into the factions at the weapons point, that would be good.
Twin or Parrallel worlds or Different versions of the same world--this means the same thing.
Descendant or 'this world follows after that world by some time' or Contingency means the same thing.
Contingency does NOT mean the same thing as Twin Worlds.
Its not really 'rules' but just common sense. A giraffe and a lion cannot be twins. However, two lions could be. One might be a circus lion, and the other a wild maneater, but they could be twins because in most ways they are alike. They would have one major difference--how they reacted to a human. And if you wanted to, you could take a pair of lions...make one a cyborg, and the load the other down with magical amulets, but they are still lions. So with Gothika and Fantastique, with Mary Pipers, with Farmlands, and with Music Wars.
Wodium is correctly describing Alpha.
And I do think this construction of both could be neat....one's the gritty, sorta insane one, and the other is the completely wild one where Guitar Hero is not just a marketing name, its life.
John - I think by "our world," he meant "this Earth," not anything about who came up with which ideas. He means something like I was saying would be nice - Alpha shared a history with the world you and I live in, and it would be cool if Beta shared that history, too.
As for the Betapocaylpse, I can do better than nukes and viruses. I think. Keep in mind that Beta is a little over-the-top by nature; I went to a little effort to make this hard to swallow. The goal is for the verser to ask an indig what happened and then believe that the indig is lying his indigenous butt off.
I gave most of this away already, and it's a little sketchy, but here's the basic jist:
One day, just like in Alpha, things came to a head and a lot of people in very secret places pushed big red buttons marked Do Not Push. Nukes flew.
Only, nobody noticed that because, on that day, the Day They Pushed the Button, the stars aligned and the planets moved into position and thirteen Black Cults across the world performed the Last Summoning. Thirteen rifts opened between this world and THE DARK BEYOND, and the Wretched God [to-speak-his-name-would-be-to-doom-us-all] began to worm his way into our fragile universe, prepared to consume the minds of all mankind and reclaim that which once was his . . .
Only, nobody noticed this because, on that day, the Day the Nukes Flew, the Day the Unspeakable One Returned, the aliens arrived - all floating down in bright silver saucers like a thousand slowly-sinking dimes. And though no one ever saw one of the visitors, they could feel, in their hearts, the peace and love emanating from their saucers: Mankind was no longer alone in the universe. Anyone alive today could tell you exactly what was playing on the radio as he or she simply sat, and stared, and waited for one of them to come out, and to make contact . . .
Only, nobody ever got the chance because, on that day, the Nuke Day, the World-Rift Day, the Day the Saucers Came, something went wrong with the Machine - the Day After machine, the thing all that Star Wars money was really funding, the anti-doomsday device the government kept so quiet about. Scientists had discovered that nuclear weapons could be located with a special scanner and, by bathing them with a special frequency of radio wave, be made to "decohere" - that is, to go away; no one knew where to. (Some physicists speculated about a Place Beyond Time and Space, but no one took them seriously.) In theory, it could hit the whole world at once - but when the big switch was thrown (what else could they do? The nukes were in the air), it didn't do that. Something in the alien spacecraft interfered, and all over the world breathless people watched as every silver saucer simultaneously exploded with a noxious green flash.
Of course, this left hundreds of thousands of nukes still in the air, which, because of the same affinity with THE DARK that made them susceptible to the Machine, promptly flew into whichever of the Thirteen Rifts was closest. And exploded. This spectacular release of energy and matter beyond the Veil of the World both cauterized the wounds in the universal fabric (that is, sealed the portals) and repelled the Unspeakable God deeper into the dark from which it came. But hardly anyone noticed.
OK Eric. I'll see about that tomorrow.
Scott, you have a vivid imagination. I like that a lot. So in your version of the apocalypse, no one really noticed. That's more what I had in mind. I think you might have hit the nail right between the eyes.
Eric, I really don't know what to do with that weapons integration. Why don't you do it and show me the finished product, so I know exactly what you're talking about for next time. It would be a lot easier on us both, I think.
Well, I mean, most people noticed something, but since no one saw everything (not even close), no one can agree on what actually happened. After all, they can't all be right, it can't all have happened - that's just absurd!
[Note: Everything did happen, they'll all correct, and yes, it was absurd.]
Unavoidable Truths:
* Cities were damaged. Some buildings got knocked down, some power plants were busted (no electricity some places), not everywhere has running water anymore (but some places do).
* Lots of people are dead, and lots more are just plain missing.
* Some people are different - they can do amazing things physically, or cause strange stuff to happen.
* Musicians have a weird new control over reality, and music has an enhanced power to influence people - not just mentally, but physically and spiritually as well.
I'll address the real causes of these things (as well as the various causes believed by various factions or individuals) in another post.
Scott, you read my mind. Perfect. Go with it.
From Tad:
Also, in another post, I have a list of d20 How the Universe and/or Earth got started. I wouldn't mind seeing the Discordian version.
Actually, the same story I linked in this post is also the creation myth. I think you'll probably be disappointed; the story is more geared toward making a point about the Discordian "afterlife," but it's the only Discordian creation myth I can remember seeing anywhere. The whole issue just isn't very important to us.
Wodium,
Well in some ways thats better than some of the scientists who if they were honest would say 'nothing we can speculate on about planetary formation or stellar formation makes any sense whatsoever. All our theories are so full of holes that they are essentially useless. Come talk to us in twenty years when we have a new idea.'
And I used their theories. When I get around to adding to my list in a Ten Sized Chunk,I'll try to add Discordianism to it.
JohnA1Nut, I'll do it. Don't worry about it.
Eric
So... um... where does this leave us now? Which version (Alpha, Beta, Interrobang?) am I actually working on? I'm confused...
Johnostevens. You and I are working on Music Wars Beta.
*grabs the white-out and whites out the "t" from his name in your last post*
So ours is the high-bias, semi-post-apocalyptic, the-germs-made-our-world-freakier version. Gotcha. So, have we made any progress, and, what sort of things do you want me stewing over while I'm bored at work tonight?
*begs forgiveness for misspelling your name*
What should you be thinking about? Honestly, you probably know more about world design than I do. I just have flashes of inspiration where things come to me. Jimmy Neutron called them "Brain Blasts" see if you can have some of these.
I'll suggest making more of those character descriptions like 'Acid' Raines, and the other character descriptions you've made for the Beta setting. It would be neat to have at least one for each faction.
Eric
At this point, I'd suggest splitting this into two threads. Eric can start integrating all his Alpha stuff into an Alpha thread, and I'll comb through this one for all the Beta stuff I can find to start off an exclusively Beta thread.
O'Sevens, I suggest you do whatever you're good at, which so far seems to be kicking out character sketches. If it were just me, then in the "finished" world description, the roles of these characters would be up to the referee - are they faction leaders, especially famous Champions, or just notable local folks the character might run in to? - but that's something we can talk about in the Beta thread. For now, it'd be cool to have at least one or two per faction, like Eric said, but don't push yourself if you aren't feeling it.
BTT