Two
Just trying to break down the time travel elements of this.
AB timeline, John Connor born to Sarah and unknown father
CD timeline, Sarah Connor attacked by Terminator
EF timeline, (Which is this one, at least) Reese comes back. I versed in. Now I'm versing out. Machines win the war. There will never be another John Connor who uses magic to age 18 years in one night and get shot by Sarah, so this can't be an infinity loop setup.
GH timeline, identical to AB timeline, except I will never be in the scenario again. The original John Connor will be in every timeline which follows.
Sawtooth snap, no infinity loop. SkyNet wins the war in this timeline, but in the next timeline, John Connor leads the world to victory. That's a safe place to leave it. No infinity loops. I can live with that.
You successfully talked me into it. I'm not even going to play a scenario with time travel. Not even one based on my favorite movie series of all time. You convinced me to not even play this world.
And in regards to the prayers, Garth Brooks is right. You should thank God for unanswered prayers.
I'm betting this is absolutely the LAST thing you would have expected.
(Doing Therapy)
Three
If I can't raise my physical age to 18, I'll figure out a way to verse myself out in the infant's body. It will only be a matter of verses before I can fix that problem, as you have so clearly stated in regards to versing out injured from Pearl Harbor. Small price to pay to keep this place from looping.
So, let's see here. I'm losing all of my bod skills, (like walking and talking) possibly disowning most of my gear, and I might even lose the VSP in a contested willpower check to Sarah. Not to mention all of the training I would have gotten here, as well as the thrill of playing the world in the first place. I might land in the next world completely naked with no possessions at all, and in the body of an infant. At least there won't be an infinity loop because of my actions. Congratulations MJ. You found what will motivate me to stay completely uninvolved.
More than one
If the TX kills one of its targets, the world loops. If the T-1000 kills Sarah, or she dies by some other means, (Like, a psionic botch) the world loops. If I can't save Reese in the future, the world loops. If I verse out now, none of that will matter, because the Terminator/Reese trips won't be confirmed in the next timeline, and the world will Sawtooth Snap. That's the best outcome I can offer this world. John Connor will fix everything in the timeline after this, no loop, and it's completely safe for all involved. And at least if it does loop, it won't be my fault. Let the machines win. In the next timeline, that won't matter anymore.
Five
If, and only if, I am the ONLY TARGET SkyNet is seeking will I play this world. My death won't cause an infinity loop. What else would cause one? Either we figure out a way to make infinity loops impossible to happen, or I figure out that "Age to 18" prayer, and you figure out a new world. It's as simple as that. I won't be responsible for an infinity loop.
Yeah, it's a lot of posts. However, you try sitting at home alone all day with this in your head and it won't get out!!!!!! And I actually just cut out a lot of it.
(Doing Therapy)
I don't have a lot of time to reply, but let me start a new thread on Terminator Timelines, and see if you decide you really hate me.
--M. J. Young
Despite 5 posts on the subject, you still didn't say a word about the idea of versing myself out. Starting an infinity loop is not acceptable. It could be done completely beyond my control. One bad dice roll. That's all it would take. Then I'm stuck in that world forever. Unacceptable. If I verse out now, the Terminator will never be sent back, and the timeline continues. You wanted to ensure that I would take action to avoid an infinity loop. That would do it. Or did you want to ensure that I would get involved in the scenario? I think your trap backfired. If you wanted me to get involved in the scenario, just say "John, you're in Terminator". I'll get involved.
The trap was put there to make sure that I would take action to avoid an infinity loop. Versing out now avoids an infinity loop, so actually, your trap will work perfectly. Just not the way you expected. And it's a lot more certain to work than hoping I don't botch at a critical moment and accidentally getting Kyle Reese killed. If all you want is for me to take action to avoid an infinity loop, I can do that right now. Or did you want to ensure that I would get involved in the scenario? If you want to ensure that I'll get involved in the scenario, take out the trap.
As you keep pointing out, I follow the path of least resistance. Versing out now is the path of least resistance, so this actually shouldn't surprise you in the slightest.
Two
After sleeping on it, the idea of versing myself out doesn't sound as good as it did last night. So, I'm asking you, either guarantee me that I cannot cause an infinity loop, or guarantee me a way out of it. Perhaps, if I get that One Bad Dice Roll, The Architect shows up immediately to get me out. Before this, I was fully intending to get involved. Your efforts to ensure my involvement is what's making me not want to.
Can I pray for that? That if I get caught in an infinity loop, The Architect shows up to get me out? Kind of an insurance policy prayer? I can't call future soldiers, but I can call versers to my heart's content. That sounds like a really good idea.
The "trap" wasn't put there for any particular reason. It was put there because I thought it would be fun for you to recognize the dangers of the potential temporal anomalies and find a way around them.
Can I pray for that? That if I get caught in an infinity loop, The Architect shows up to get me out? Kind of an insurance policy prayer? I can't call future soldiers, but I can call versers to my heart's content. That sounds like a really good idea.
I'm intrigued and impressed by the notion of praying for contingency help: that someone will arrive if you get caught in an infinity loop. The real cleverness of it, from one perspective, is that if you summon someone into this before it becomes an infinity loop they might get trapped in the loop with you, but if you make it contingent then you will pray it whether or not it's a loop, and it will be answered by having no one arrive if you're not trapped and someone arrive if you are.
That's assuming it works, but you've done enough summonings that there's a good chance it will.
Of course, if you summon a verser now, he's not going to recognize you and you're not going to be able to explain it to him, so you might want to wait a bit before you do this.
So, have you decided what you're doing yet?
--M. J. Young
So, have you decided what you're doing yet?
First, I wanted to apologize. That was freaking me out, the idea of an infinity loop. It was in the back of my mind, I've been thinking about it "On the back burner" ever since I got here. The first world I really wanted to play, and you just scared me out of it. Thank you for not taking that "Age to 18" action seriously. I'm sure some referees would have. Oh, and just so you know, I can tell you right now this won't freak me out the way Pearl Harbor did. I think I've done all the freaking out I'm going to do.
Secondly, from my skill sheet:
1@1 Call Angelic Messenger M+11@7 20:00TF kneeling in established base camp with appropriate words, calls specific angel messenger to answer questions +57SM
Like I said, I've had this on the back burner since I got here, so I'm sure it's within the realm of possibility that he's had a similar revelation.
I'm assuming God and the angel will be able to understand me. Whilst Sarah is asleep. Wherever I am, that's the established home, as designated by Sarah, so this works anywhere. I can get into a position that resembles kneeling with hands folded, at least. I hope God won't hold that against me. Sarah shouldn't even be able to see or hear the angel, so it won't wake her up. With a plus 57 sit-mod, this is almost guaranteed to work, if I'm understanding the math correctly.
New use?
When the angel arrives:
"What happens if I die in this world? Under normal circumstances, my death would cause an infinity loop. I'm a verser though. I would verse out, right? I wouldn't be stuck in the infinity loop, would I?" (You can't tell me, but an angel CAN tell my character.) <wink>
I do stay in the infinity loop, don't I? That's why you wouldn't tell me. I'm not a verser. I AM John Connor. If I verse out, it's the same as if he died. Oh man MJ, what in the hell have you done to me???? (That's said with a laugh, BTW)
"How would I go about summoning the "Contingency Verser"? The Architect. I trust him, and I know he knows time travel. He wrote the theory I studied, in another lifetime."
"Could you speak to Sarah for me? Tell her what I can't."
Might be more questions later.
I'm intrigued and impressed by the notion of praying for contingency help
Really? To me, that seemed blatantly obvious.
Now I have to ask. Would you have ever expected that I would rather verse out than risk an infinity loop?
NOTES:
Ya know what would be interesting? Summon both Whisp and Mother into the middle of a Terminator encampment. In the course of them killing each other, they would be certain to take out some machines. If Mother wins, she verses herself out, if Whisp wins, he will try to seduce a female Terminator. Either way, I no longer have to worry about them.
Call Bob Thomas in. He wouldn't be able to tell Terminators from people. Just drop him into the middle of a T-800 encampment. He probably wouldn't last very long, but even taking out a handful of them would help us. He would probably enjoy himself.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
Mistake.
(Doing Therapy)
How old are you?
You can't raise your body under your own power; you can only stay upright once placed that way. Also, you've never been on your knees--babies don't crawl until they are nine months old, and even then it's a four-point stance (although they can stand with support of an outside object at eight months). Kneeling unsupported isn't possible until fifteen months old. I suppose you will be able to develop the skill to kneel while leaning against an object at least as tall as your shoulders while kneeling when you are eight months old; but you're not there yet.
The skill specifies kneeling, and lying either prone or supine will not work for that. (I know you want to argue the point, but the very point is that the specifications of the skill are designed so that if anything prevents you from doing it as written you can't do the skill. That's why they're called limitations.)
You can't do the summoning because you can't kneel.
You can try to design a similar skill that does not require you to kneel, and we'll work out the numbers for that.
--M. J. Young
(I know you want to argue the point, but the very point is that the specifications of the skill are designed so that if anything prevents you from doing it as written you can't do the skill. That's why they're called limitations.)
Actually I don't want to argue. I was kind of worried about that. I thought perhaps laying face down with my knees bent would qualify. I didn't realize "God" was so strict on such things.
Using that skill as a template, change the kneeling to laying prostrate, which I know I can accomplish. I really wish I could make that a new use instead of an new skill, but oh well. I really REALLY wish I could keep that +57 sit-mod, but maybe I'll get one better. Everything about that prayer is exactly the same, except that I'm laying prostrate instead of kneeling.
Dumb question. Instead of two prayers exactly the same except for one component, why not make it one prayer, the needed component "Position of humility before God"? Kneeling, laying prostrate, whatever else would qualify for that. Can I make that this prayer? Instead of kneeling or laying prostrate "Position of humility" or some such? And since I'm laying prostrate instead of kneeling, it would be a new use. It just seems to be easier to me. Can we change the existing prayer to "Position of humility" rather than "kneeling"? If not, it's fine, I'd just really like to keep that sit-mod, ya know?
1@1 Call Angelic Messenger M+11@7 20:00TF kneeling in established base camp with appropriate words, calls specific angel messenger to answer questions +57SM
That's the template I'm using. Laying prostrate instead of kneeling.
How old are you?
I'm 33. I think my character is 5 or 6 months. You probably meant my character.
My questions:
When the angel arrives:
"What happens if I die in this world? Under normal circumstances, my death would cause an infinity loop. I'm a verser though. I would verse out, right? I wouldn't be stuck in the infinity loop, would I?" (You can't tell me, but an angel CAN tell my character.) <wink>
I do stay in the infinity loop, don't I? That's why you wouldn't tell me. I'm not a verser. I AM John Connor. If I verse out, it's the same as if he died. Oh man MJ, what in the hell have you done to me???? (That's said with a laugh, BTW)
"How would I go about summoning the "Contingency Verser"? The Architect. I trust him, and I know he knows time travel. He wrote the theory I studied, in another lifetime."
"Could you speak to Sarah for me? Tell her what I can't."
Darn, I was kind of looking forward to telling you how I was planning to use the infinity loop to my advantage. It's almost as good as time travel if you know how to use it. And you're not really time traveling, so no anomalies.
(Doing Therapy)
Instead of two prayers exactly the same except for one component, why not make it one prayer, the needed component "Position of humility before God"? Kneeling, laying prostrate, whatever else would qualify for that.
Well, I have two problems with that. The first is that not having the magic skills worksheet used to calculate the sit-mod in this prayer I don't know exactly what value I gave for "kneeling" as a component, so I can't say whether the body position matters to the sit-mod. That could be remedied, presumably, by digging through the threads to find the behind the screens posts in which the calculations were done, but not by me today, at least. That means you'll have to design the skill afresh, and I'll have to calculate it afresh, and we'll see where it lands.
The more immediate problem, though, is that lying prone is not a "position of humility before God" for a baby. It's the default position. To illustrate, it might make sense for a winged seraph (an angel) to place itself in "a position of humility before God" by standing on his feet instead of flying in the air, but for a man flying is not usually regarded a possibility and thus standing is not a "position of humility" by comparison. Similarly, a female sprite might consider flying on her back a "position of humility", but male sprites can't fly on their backs (and humans can't normally fly at all) so it would be nonsense to speak of them flying on their backs as a "position of humility". Such a position is such a position because it inherently involves moving from the normal position of strength and dignity to the abnormal position of weakness and vulnerability. Lying, either prone or supine, is certainly a vulnerable position even for a baby, but a baby doesn't have the ability to get into a less vulnerable position, so it can't be said to be humbling itself by lying in its normal position.
Sorry, but unless you can figure out what position a baby can adopt that would be a physical expression of humility not part of its normal daily positions, you don't have the ability to include that as a component in the skill.
And Michael is right: any bonus you would get would be based on what the skill requires of you in all circumstances. Since "position of humility" can be as vague as bowing your head or removing your hat or (in a different culture) covering your head, it really means nothing and receives no bonus. It does not restrict your ability to perform the skill, so it does not bonus doing so.
--M. J. Young
But yet, you still didn't roll the dice for the prayer. I could argue that being a baby ALWAYS put me in a position of humility before God. Anyway, change kneeling to laying down. I won't always be a baby, and there may come a time when I will need to lay down as an adult to do this. Better to have it.
And why did you ask how old I was? Did you mean me or my character?
On the age, it was the character.
I would rather not include the "lying down" aspect in the skill description because it's misleading. It would be inappropriate for me to give you a bonus now for the requirement that you cast the spell from what is your most normal position; it would be inappropriate for you not to have the bonus when "lying down" is a position you have to assume. But when I figure out the sit-mod now there will be no bonus for that, and I will not recalculate it later based on the fact that when designed it required you to assume a position that had no meaning at the time and gained meaning later.
I haven't rolled precisely because we have not really agreed concerning the terms of the skill, so we can't determine the probability of success.
--M. J. Young
OK, whatever, we're wasting time. If this is the only time I do it, then it's the only time I do it. Just figure it out and roll for it. I have a world to play. I would have thought "God" would have given me bonus points just for being a baby. If not, that's fine. Whatever. Just roll for it. Either it's bonused or it isn't.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
A baby probably can't not bow his head, either. If I say "Speak loudly and forcefully" Sarah will think I'm crying and shove a bottle in my mouth. I can't kneel, laying down is what I do anyway, looks like bonuses are impossible here.
I realize that in this instance, you are "God" but I also refuse to believe that the actual God would hold something as trivial as an inability to kneel against the person praying. Isn't there a clause for special circumstances? If I can't get it bonused through some extra action that I can't take, I'll do it without the bonus. I still refuse to believe that God would hold that against me, but whatever. Just roll the dice already. At night whilst Sarah is sleeping.
If I can't get it bonused through some extra action that I can't take, I'll do it without the bonus. I still refuse to believe that God would hold that against me, but whatever. Just roll the dice already.
John, you lack imagination. There are many things you can do--you can roll from your stomach to your back (although not yet from your back to your stomach). You can raise your hands and your feet and flail with them. You can put your hands in your mouth; using your hands you can put your feet in your mouth. You can suck on objects in your mouth. You can grab things with either hand or both at once (but not separate things), including your body parts, your clothing, your bedding. You could ask whether there are any toys in your bed--it's likely that there might be a stuffed animal or a rattle or some object there to entertain a baby, and you might have a pacifier given to you to suck on for comfort when you are put to bed. I doubt there would be a mobile hanging over the bed, but it's not impossible.
If you're going to create prayers as an infant, you're going to have to think of yourself being an infant, and work within the parameters of what infants can do.
Now, if you don't want to put yourself in that mindset but just want to think the prayer and see whether it works (-25 for a prayer that has no spoken, acted, or object components) I'll crunch the numbers and roll. But don't tell me that there is nothing you can do and that "God" is holding that against you. Shamans shake rattles as part of their ritual prayers; why can't babies? O.K., that might be more noise than you want to make--but the fact is, you have options.
--M. J. Young
We've wasted a week on this. OK, fine, I'll raise my hands and face towards Heaven when I pray for 20 minutes. Will you please roll the dice now?
1@1 Call Angelic Messenger M+11@7 20:00TF kneeling in established base camp with appropriate words, calls specific angel messenger to answer questions +57SM
This is the template. Hands and face raised to Heaven instead of kneeling, otherwise the same.
When the angel arrives:
"What happens if I die in this world? Under normal circumstances, my death would cause an infinity loop. I'm a verser though. I would verse out, right? I wouldn't be stuck in the infinity loop, would I?" (You can't tell me, but an angel CAN tell my character.) <wink>
I do stay in the infinity loop, don't I? That's why you wouldn't tell me. I'm not a verser. I AM John Connor. If I verse out, it's the same as if he died. Oh man MJ, what in the hell have you done to me???? (That's said with a laugh, BTW)
"How would I go about summoning the "Contingency Verser"? The Architect. I trust him, and I know he knows time travel. He wrote the theory I studied, in another lifetime."
"Could you speak to Sarah for me? Tell her what I can't."
Two
Do me a favor. Erase that prayer for calling a soldier from the future. I didn't even write it down. I didn't realize how dangerous that was. It's not something I'm ever going to do again, I didn't write it down, so you might as well just erase it from my sheet. Seriously.
Three
After rereading, that first sounds a might testy. I understand that it's game mechanics and all of that, but really, seriously, God wouldn't hold it against me that I can't kneel in this body. Shouldn't there be exceptions made? I was planning to lay on my stomach with my knees bent as much as possible. As close to actual kneeling as my current physical limitations would allow. I'd actually think that would be, if anything, more difficult. Would you perhaps allow that on a bonused willpower check to maintain the position? Just thought I'd ask, ya know. I'd just really like to keep that +57 sit-mod. If a player became a paraplegic and couldn't kneel, would you still make them redo all of their prayers? Yeah, I see why you would, but I still think it stinks. I agree with the reasoning, but not with the action. The wrong thing for the right reason. God would allow exceptions.
Do I get any bonuses for having multiple summoning skills? What about being a baby? I'd think there would be an "Innocence" sit-mod applied to zygoted versers, but that's just my two cents. No matter what they may have done in the past, that is, in a sense, no longer part of them.
(Doing Therapy)
I know you're frustrated that I haven't rolled, and my really big excuse for not rolling tonight is that it is already incredibly late and I have had a rough day and need to get through this without getting bogged down in crunching spell numbers right now.
But I am very curious in regard to what you're planning to do if the prayer works. You're going to talk to the angel, according to your statement. You're going to say
Waappa ziffa dondis wir. der noma sirstes, maethud cawn finnyoop. Amma berser dough. aud berse ow, twite? wun be tuckin de finnyoop, wuldeye?"
and
ow udda gobow summmmming de kingessy versa? Darktec. trussim, annoienoz time taba. e wote diteewy I tudied, inodda wyfime."
and maybe
"Cu you peak t Sar forme? Tell her what I cant."
Now I want to know what you're thinking here. It could be
- Angels can understand this gibberish because they have the magic powers to know what I meant to say.
- The angel will read my mind because it's his job to find out what I want to ask and tell me, so it's up to him to get the questions from me.
- I will telepathically convey my thoughts to the angel.
- I will be enabled to speak clearly while I am communicating with the angel.
- This will all happen in a spiritual dimension where my adult spirit will be able to talk to the angelic spirit without the limitations of my infant body.
- Something else that the referee has apparently not realized.
--M. J. Young
Angels can understand this gibberish because they have the magic powers to know what I meant to say.
I'd hope God would have the foresight to send an angel who was fluent in baby talk.
OR
I will be enabled to speak clearly while I am communicating with the angel.
Did God not enable a donkey to speak?
Whichever one of those requires the least amount of dice rolls.
Whichever one of those requires the least amount of dice rolls.
I'm sorry. This is an invalid character statement. It involves a character making a decision based on a game mechanic.
I may be splitting hairs here, but I think it's perfectly reasonable for you as a player to use your knowledge of game mechanics to determine which approach you think is more likely to succeed and make the character decision based on "I think this way is more likely to work"; but it is invalid for you to use my knowledge of mechanics to make that decision, and it is invalid for the character to make a choice on the basis of mechanics--which is what that statement does.
I'm not removing the other skill from the sheet, by the way. I don't care if you never use it; it matters to me that it's there.
You roll on your back and start praying, hands raised. It is difficult to keep them raised like that, but you focus on doing so while calling on God to send a messenger angel to answer your question.
You've been doing this for a while when suddenly Sarah scoops you out of your portable bed.
"What are you babbling about now?" she asks, part teasing, part groggy. "You should be asleep, you know. Are you hungry? You're not crying. Hey, what's going on in that head of yours?" she shakes her head.
--M. J. Young
Whichever one of those requires the least amount of dice rolls.
I'm sorry. This is an invalid character statement. It involves a character making a decision based on a game mechanic.
I was kind of afraid you would say that. I'd think the angel would be able to understand me regardless of how I was talking. Even if I didn't have a mouth at all, so let's go with the angel can understand baby talk.
I'm not removing the other skill from the sheet, by the way. I don't care if you never use it; it matters to me that it's there.
Well, I never wrote it down. After I realized how suicidal that was, I don't even want to pretend that I know that. Why does it matter to you? Just curious.
After reading Behind the Screens, we seem to have miscommunicated. I thought that prayer was silent. I thought you were going to tell me that I rolled a failure, failure being that Sarah interrupted me. Is it required for me to babble baby talk? If it's a bonus or required, then I'm at the mercy of the GE roll, if not, I thought it was silent. If I can't make it silent, at least as quiet as possible.
"What are you babbling about now?" she asks, part teasing, part groggy. "You should be asleep, you know. Are you hungry? You're not crying. Hey, what's going on in that head of yours?" she shakes her head.
Part of me wants to keep praying. Keep my hands raised, keep babbling. If I was certain the angel could explain itself and stop Sarah from taking any negative action, I would do it in a heartbeat. Should we discuss a modification to the prayer to tell the angel to do that? Perhaps add that to the prayer on the spot, right here and now? If I can get that angel to talk to her, that would be perfect.
Keep praying, and add that to the prayer on the spot. "Angel, please, stop her and explain yourself when you arrive. Explain me. Please Angel, I need your help."
Keep my hands raised when she picks me up. Putting my arms around her neck would keep them raised above my head.
I don't know if that really changes the prayer. That's more just hoping that the angel can hear it. I'm not certain. Maybe it does. I want the angel to do that when it gets here, so maybe it does change the prayer.
If it works like I'm hoping, I'll have the angel repeat to Sarah what I'm saying.
My hope is that there isn't much time remaining, so that I can finish this before she silences me. Keep it up even if I get a pacifier shoved in my mouth. The babbling would still sound the same, I guess. A bottle would silence me. I don't want to choke. Try to resist anything if I can. Keep babbling, shaking my head. I need this angel to talk to her.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
Like I said, I thought the prayer was silent. If the babbling isn't a bonus or required, then I didn't just wake Sarah up. We may need to rewind time.
If the babbling is required, and this doesn't work, try again tomorrow night, and try to be more quiet.
(Doing Therapy)
Well, I never wrote it down. After I realized how suicidal that was, I don't even want to pretend that I know that. Why does it matter to you? Just curious.
Have you ever heard of Chris and the Teleporting Spaceships? It was on DiceTales when that site was still around (along with Eric and the Gazebo, which you can still find on the Web under that name). In any case, once you've taught yourself a skill, you know it. Maybe you'll use it as a pattern to teach yourself another skill. Maybe you'll teach it to someone else you think could use it. Maybe one day you'll use it by mistake. It's learned; it's part of you now.
Is it required for me to babble baby talk?
No, it is not required that you say anything. If you do not say anything, there are no words; if there are no words, there being nothing else that is appropriate to the specific request, there is no bonus for appropriateness. You have managed to avoid the major penalty for having no words, no objects, and no actions, and if you want the spell to be completely silent with you lying on your back with your arms raised for twenty minutes thinking your request, that's fine; I'll do the math based on that, and Sarah won't hear you babbling.
And if that's what you intended, I'll erase the previous attempt and do it over without the disruption.
(Honestly, I looked back over several posts looking for the place where you said you were going to think those thoughts, but I couldn't find it; and the template you gave had you speaking aloud, so I followed that.)
--M. J. Young
1@1 Call Angelic Messenger M+11@7 20:00TF kneeling in established base camp with appropriate words, calls specific angel messenger to answer questions +57SM
(Honestly, I looked back over several posts looking for the place where you said you were going to think those thoughts, but I couldn't find it; and the template you gave had you speaking aloud, so I followed that.)
Oh I didn't realize that "Appropriate words" meant speaking aloud. I guess neither of us was completely clear. Yeah, roll em. Twenty minutes silent praying.
When the angel arrives (hopefully) I'm probably going to ask it to awaken Sarah. (It, for an angel?) I need to communicate with her. Certainly an angel would have 3@ charisma and could charm her into calming down and hearing him out.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
Curious. If I was to summon Lauren back into the scenario, she could have gone through a thousand verses between the last time I saw her. It also could be a divergent verser Lauren that never met me at all. This is true, isn't it? That could be interesting.
Is it within my ability to nod (yes) and shake my head (no)? After the angel talks to Sarah, and she knows my mind is functioning, even asking me yes or no questions would be a great communication.
(Doing Therapy)
I think the answer is sort of but not reliably. You'd have to roll for it each time.Is it within my ability to nod (yes) and shake my head (no)?
I don't have any particular reason to think that angels have high charisma. They do have high persuasion, mostly because people are terrified of them on sight.
You pray for twenty minutes, and an angel appears.
You babble, trying to say "What happens if I die in this world? Under normal circumstances, my death would cause an infinity loop. I'm a verser though. I would verse out, right? I wouldn't be stuck in the infinity loop, would I?"
He looks puzzled for a moment, and then he seems to understand. In a deep voice, he answers, "You are asking me how time works. I do not know how time works; we do not have time of the same kind in our realm. However, I will find out for you."
He vanishes.
--M. J. Young
I don't have any particular reason to think that angels have high charisma. They do have high persuasion, mostly because people are terrified of them on sight.
So angels aren't beautiful? I find that difficult to believe.
Wait for him to return. Then ask my other questions.
Two
The other questions I wanted to ask.
"How would I go about summoning the "Contingency Verser"? The Architect. I trust him, and I know he knows time travel. He wrote the theory I studied, in another lifetime."
"Could you speak to Sarah for me? Tell her what I can't."
If he agrees to speak to Sarah, I'm going to have him repeat what I say to her. He would probably have to calm her down and assure her that he's not a Terminator though.
I don't know why you think angels are beautiful. Everything I read about them suggests to me that they are terrifying--why, nearly always the first thing out of their mouth is "fear not", and why would they say that unless it was quite natural for people to be afraid of them?
The answer to the first question: "I do not understand what it is, but I am to inform you that an infinity loop is a genuine danger to you, and that you were selected for this universe because you had the understanding necessary to avoid that disaster."
To the second question: "You already know how to do this. You have summoned others before. It would be best if you prayed for someone who can help you escape the anomaly if one has come into existence around you, rather than to ask for someone in particular who might or might not be able to repair the damage. However, asking for a specific individual contingent upon the existence of the problem will at least alert you to a problem of which you would otherwise be unaware, assuming there was no chance of that person appearing apart from that problem."
To the third question: "I cannot act on your behalf. My function is to answer questions and provide information to you. If you need someone to act for you or do something on your behalf, you must call a ministering angel, not a spirit of prophecy."
--M. J. Young
I don't know why you think angels are beautiful. Everything I read about them suggests to me that they are terrifying--why, nearly always the first thing out of their mouth is "fear not", and why would they say that unless it was quite natural for people to be afraid of them?
Is there anything specific which says that they are NOT beautiful? "Fear Not" can mean any number of things. I mean, just having someone appear out of thin air would be sufficient cause for most people to be afraid, ya know? Or it could be that they are so beautiful that fear is natural. It would be unlike anything a human has ever seen. That's cause to be afraid. Or maybe that's just how they greet people. Is there anything which specifically says they are not beautiful? Perhaps this calls for a GE roll?
"I do not understand what it is, but I am to inform you that an infinity loop is a genuine danger to you, and that you were selected for this universe because you had the understanding necessary to avoid that disaster."
"I thought you were supposed to have access to the knowledge of God. Certainly God would know the answer. As far as "that disaster", it's my secret weapon. And exactly who selected me for it?"
Dismiss the angel after I get the reply to that. Time to call in The Big Guns.
MJ, do you remember Terry? He was a very gay, er, happy guardian angel. I want to call him in.
1@1 Attract Assisting Angel M+11@6 loudly say, "Please God Help Me" repeatedly for 2:00 while trying to think of ways God could deliver from the current mess, brings Terry, a garishly clothed slender effeminate male guardian angel with long blonde hair and an assortment of 2@ magical powers for solving difficult problems, -2SM.
This was the prayer I used to summon him before. I've summoned him so, if that's a familiarity bonus, that's good. This is only listed to remind you who Terry was, and has no bearing on what I'm doing now.
Terry is a guardian, but I want to summon him as a servant. A servant to guard me against an infinity loop. You said you really enjoyed playing the character, so I thought it would be cool. Since he exists outside this universe, I see no reason why you would need to roll for it. If there is some reason why we can't just get Terry, that's cool too. Like I said, it's mostly because you said you enjoyed playing the character. This is a new prayer, using the summoning skill I just used as a template. Exactly the same, but I'm calling Terry (or whoever) as a servant guardian to get my out of infinity loops. Summon Terry, and ask him if he will do this. Wouldn't it just be my luck if I botched and got killed, whilst trying to summon the angel to prevent that from happening?
I would like to have Terry "On Call" as it were. If I do something, or something happens which will result in an infinity loop, Terry shows up in the next run of the loop and prevents that event from happening. He isn't time traveling, he's just using the repeat of time to select the right moment to enter. We wouldn't even have to slow down game play. As soon as you determined that the "Loop Event" happened, the timeline runs forward automatically. Then, in the next leg of the loop, five minutes before where we were, Terry shows up. From my character's POV, Terry would just appear, do something, and wave at him before leaving. This isn't something I'm planning to abuse. If you want to put a limited number on it, that's fine. I'll redo it when I only have 1 use left. (Like say Terry agrees to this 5 times, then I have to ask him again or something) Or maybe Terry will think it so brilliant that he will agree to do that every single time. That could be advantageous. I figure, if I don't, then you will realize that what happened just caused the loop. So, you would just say "John, you were doing this, Kyle Reese was about to get killed by a Terminator, but Terry showed up, destroyed the Terminator, and saved Kyle." You wouldn't even really have to tell me Kyle got killed. My character would never see it happen. That's the effect I'm looking for. If my character can't see Terry perform the action, Terry shows up afterward and tells him it happened. Instead of an infinity loop, this will be a sawtooth snap, N jump termination, and that's all there is to it. Once the infinity loop starts, Terry can come in at any time, a million loops later, and as far as my character is concerned, it will still be the first time. From his POV, Terry just appears every so often.
Terry doesn't even have to come in right away. He could come in a million loops later, and my character would never know the difference. "No rush Terry my friend. Sit back, examine the repeat a few times, see what exactly needs to be done, and come in when you're ready. And, while you're here, can you help me defeat that mess of Terminators over there?" Terry even gets an infinite number of tries to fix the mess. If you roll, and Terry failed, Terry comes back in the next loop and tries again. You determine all of that Behind the Screens, and tell me the final result. The final result being Terry successfully breaking me out of the loop. Since Terry exists outside this universe, the infinity loop has no effect whatsoever on him. He can run it as many times as he needs to to get it right.
If I'm killed in a battle in the future, Terry might just have to wipe out the entire battalion of Terminators to save my sorry butt, however, that's what he's been called on for.
If I have a fatal psionics botch, and the world is about to go infinity loop, you roll the dice, determine that I had a fatal botch, and Terry steps in and tells me not to do it. While he's here, can he take care of whatever I was going to use the psionics on when I botched. I can't prematurely verse out, I will play the world to the end. I'm using the infinity loop to my advantage.
It's kind of like Bill and Ted's time travel, that if they want it to happen, and do it in the future, it will happen. Terry will be there. As far as my character is concerned, every time is the first time, so, to him, it will just look like Terry shows up every now and then and bails him out of trouble.
Use the other summon angel skill as a model, summon Terry and ask him if he would agree to this. Or can we make the other a "Summon Angel regardless of intended purpose"? That would make this a new use.
How can I pray for this to come to pass? This is the effect I'm seeking. Yeah, your trap backfired MJ. With this, I can't verse out prematurely, and I have to play the scenario to its conclusion. How to convince Terry to do this? I'm a baby, he can't refuse me.
I can't be killed. I can't even commit suicide. My death causes an infinity loop. If I kill myself, it causes a loop, time runs forward, and in the next loop, Terry shows up. As far as my character is concerned, it's always the first time. John Connor is a messiah of sorts. What better way to prove that to people, than to raise a gun to my temple, and have everyone watch in awe as a guardian angel appears out of nowhere and takes the gun away from me? I would have to kill myself in the previous loop, but then, not. Is that still a difficult willpower check? I would think not, but I'm not the referee.
John Connor, savior of mankind, whom angels watch over. Think about the possibilities here!!!!!!!
And the timeline looks something like this:
(Periods are just there because I don't know how to code to make it do that.)
...................I
...............IXI\I
...............I
...........IXI\I
...........I
......IXI\I
.....I
IXI\I
I
The infinity loops do go all they way back to the start, of course, but I don't know how to draw that. Actually, I'm not at all sure what the timeline wold look like, but that's as good a guess as any I suppose.
Is that a unique application of the time theory or what?
(Doing Therapy)
Two
Why won't you tell me if I stay in the loop or not? Isn't the angel supposed to know everything? If I don't stay in the loop, then that plan I listed won't really work, and if I do stay in the loop, then you can't tell me I'm not forced into the story. I can't even verse out of it. Fortunately, this is a scenario I don't mind being forced into.
(Doing Therapy)
Three
Mistake.
(Doing Therapy)
"I thought you were supposed to have access to the knowledge of God. Certainly God would know the answer. As far as "that disaster", it's my secret weapon.
"I am a creature, like yourself, with my own limitations; I do not know what God knows, only what He tells me. Time is not something we understand; we have no experience within it. I can relay a message; that is what 'messenger' means. It does not mean that I understand it entirely."
And exactly who selected me for it?"
"Did you think that you arrived in worlds at random? Did you think that anything in your life is outside the interest of your God? If a sparrow does not fall without His concern, how could you come to this world without His interest?"
Do I remember Terry? John, I have a character sheet on Terry. I figured I was going to saddle you with Terry for a very long time to come--he's your guardian angel, mostly because I know his manner will, let's say, amuse you.
Familiarity only counts for psionic telepathic skills.
The function of the summoned person/creature is one of the factors in determining bias and difficulty, and so if you create a skill that can summon for all three purposes (fighter, servant, and informer), it is more difficult than the most difficult single purpose. That would require recalculating the skill you've already used, and that would require going back to before you prayed that prayer and doing it all over--which would create its own sort of loop if you failed, because then you wouldn't be trying to use the skill in a new way now.Or can we make the other a "Summon Angel regardless of intended purpose"?
In short, no.
And Terry is a servant, not a fighter and not an informer, which limits what he can do. He cannot fight for you.
It occurs to me that you are not going to use the skill you used to summon Terry before because you do not want to say that loudly. You're trying to pattern this after the skill you just used. I'm going to ask you to give me exactly what you want.
I'm also going to suggest you be mindful of this: one of the functions of ritual is that differences in the ritual direct your expectations. If you use the same ritual for different outcomes, you suffer penalties because of the potential for confusion.
--M. J. Young
I do not know what God knows, only what He tells me.
"So God does not want me to know whether or not I stay in the infinity loop?"
That would require recalculating the skill you've already used, and that would require going back to before you prayed that prayer and doing it all over
I didn't mean go back in time, I meant redo the prayer. Can I do one which would summon all three types of angel simultaneously? Terry can work on this part, the fighter can work on this part, and the informer can tell me what happened. Have three angels watching my back. That's probably pushing it.
And Terry is a servant, not a fighter and not an informer, which limits what he can do. He cannot fight for you.
That depends on your definition of fighting. Teleporting the army of Terminators to the bottom of the Marianas Trench would permanently take them out. Requires no fighting. By the time the Terminators got out of there, if they got out at all, they would be rusted to hell and practically useless. Terry didn't destroy them, the water did.
It occurs to me that you are not going to use the skill you used to summon Terry before because you do not want to say that loudly. You're trying to pattern this after the skill you just used. I'm going to ask you to give me exactly what you want.
My prayer ritual is that I am going to put my right big toe in my mouth, then my left big toe, before I start praying. In his case, it's probably his whole foot, but I won't always be able to do that. This will encourage me to keep up the flexibility. That's my sacrifice for the prayer. Right now, that's easy. When I'm an adult, it will probably be a flexibility check.
After the toes in the mouth, raise my hands and face to the sky. Pray for Terry to come. Spend an hour in prayer, keeping my hands raised as much as I can. (Raise for 10 minutes, lower for 5, raise for 10, etc) This is following putting my toes in my mouth, one foot at a time.
"Terry, I summon you to help me. I'll tell you my plan when you arrive. Try not to awaken Sarah if you don't mind. Can you speak to Sarah while you're here?"
Or should I explain to Terry what I want him to do in the prayer? Since I just wrote a thousand words on it, explaining it again seems redundant.
Terry is a servant. He can talk to Sarah.
You didn't say a word about my application of the time theory. I was half expecting to see the word "Ingenious" come rolling off of your keyboard.
(Doing Therapy)
"So God does not want me to know whether or not I stay in the infinity loop?"
"Oh, certainly God would know that; but he has not told me. Nor has he explained to me why he has not told me--although it may be that the outcome is dependent on your ignorance of the outcome. If you were in a firefight and God told you that you would survive it unscathed, would you duck and cover as diligently as if you did not know? If he told you that you would die in that fight, would you protect yourself with the same care as if you were ignorant? Whether you are trapped in an infinity loop may depend on what you choose and do yourself; whether you know it might change the outcome, because it might change what you choose and do."
I didn't mean go back in time, I meant redo the prayer. Can I do one which would summon all three types of angel simultaneously? Terry can work on this part, the fighter can work on this part, and the informer can tell me what happened. Have three angels watching my back.
I know you didn't mean going back in time. You meant changing the prayer--changing what you asked in such a way that the probability that it would be answered would change. That means I have to roll back the clock to before you prayed for the angel to come, recalculate based on the new definition of the prayer (which now has additional penalties and is a different bias because you're including multiple skills in one summoning), and re-roll for whether it worked. If it didn't work, you didn't get your informer, and you don't have the answers to your questions--which would mean that I would have to bar you from taking any action which might be based on that information.
You could design a single skill that summons three different angels, or summon one angel that does all three things, but it's a significantly harder skill.
I am assuming that the words you give are not spoken, and thus you are thinking about the result you want, not verbalizing it in words.
You pray your prayer. Sarah stirs near the end of it, but you keep going, and then Terry appears.
"My goodness, John, what have you gotten yourself into now? Look at you! So, am I supposed to turn you back into an adult? No, wait--this body never has been an adult's body, has it? And it doesn't seem as if aging magic will work in this world, so there's no hope of that. So, what did you want me to do for you?"
My opinion is that you have to speak, but that Terry will understand what you are trying to say. Telepathy does not work in this world, nor does magical mind-to-mind communications, not even for those who are not from this world.
You didn't say a word about my application of the time theory. I was half expecting to see the word "Ingenious" come rolling off of your keyboard.
Well, I don't think it's ingenious, exactly, but you'll have to see how it plays out if you try it.
And yes, you have to pass a will power check to shoot yourself in the head. I would probably make you pass a will power check to intentionally shoot yourself in the foot, simply because it's not that easy to decide to cause yourself that much pain--although if you prefer, I suppose I could allow you to attempt to fail a bonused simple intellect check, since if you were stupid enough you might do it.
--M. J. Young
I know you didn't mean going back in time. You meant changing the prayer--changing what you asked in such a way that the probability that it would be answered would change.
No, I meant making up a new prayer using that as the basis. It would result in 2 prayers, not one which was changed. Guess I wasn't completely clear.
My opinion is that you have to speak, but that Terry will understand what you are trying to say. Telepathy does not work in this world, nor does magical mind-to-mind communications, not even for those who are not from this world.
"Terry. Wake up Sarah. Keep her under control. Don't let her take any action. Explain to her who you are. I need to have a chat with her. I need you to repeat what I say to you. After that, we can all talk about the plan. Sarah has a right to know this."
I suppose I could allow you to attempt to fail a bonused simple intellect check, since if you were stupid enough you might do it.
Far from laughing, I might just take you up on that. I'd have a better chance at that than I would at passing the willpower check.
Well, I don't think it's ingenious, exactly, but you'll have to see how it plays out if you try it.
Does it at least work temporally? That's my biggest concern. I'm pretty sure it does.
(Doing Therapy)