The Japanese at one point gave up their guns and their castles because the Shogun?? or was it the Emperor said so. This could be culture and/or it could be that the boss had that much power.
It was much more difficult for the European kings to break their nobles of their castles.
they are as afraid of being shot by a paintball as they can be of being shot by anything, and thus the threat of genuine violence does not scare them more.
Uh no. Which would you be more afraid of getting shot by? A 22 or a Howitzer cannon? You could end up just as dead either way, but the Howitzer cannon just kinds of adds something to it. In this case, they're just as afraid of paintballs as we would be of bullets. However, the verser introduces a real gun, which now makes them getting shot by Howitzer cannons. Does that make more sense?
John, your current argument is that the people fear paintballs and bullets the same amount. The argument here is ammo, not propulsion. A person might fear a high powered paintball rifle more than a hand gun version, because it hurts more. The hit is still going to be a hit, but it hurts more. This is analogous to the 22 and howitzer cannon example. The familiar fear is the ammo/direct method of infliction. The type of propulsion however varies the degree of pain and therefore adds additional fear.
Also, what makes the versers guns an equivalent of howitzer cannons? Unless you're actually saying you have a howitzer cannon. For the most part the versers bullets do exactly what any bullets do.
Mike, John is saying that the paintballs don't really hurt or kill, they just stop people by convention, and so a real gun would be genuinely deadly. His mistake isn't there; it's in the logic he adduces before that.
John, you wrote (emphasis mine)
In military training, you know they aren't really going to kill you. I've been told that fact makes it no less frightening.
That means that that when they are training with blanks they are exactly as frightened as they are when they face real situations with real bullets. If the blanks are not less frightening, then the real bullets are not more frightening.
By that logic, if the paintballs are every bit as frightening as real bullets, then the real bullets cannot be more frightening than the paintballs.
I'm not saying that's right; I'm saying that your argument leads to that conclusion.
Personally, I think the people are not so much afraid of the paintballs as they are afraid of the punishment that arises from failure to respect the paintball custom.
--M. J. Young
Ah, on rereading I found an important word I glossed over, sorry.
What I read it as was :
In this case, they're just as afraid of paintballs as they would be of bullets
While it actually read:
In this case, they're just as afraid of paintballs as we would be of bullets
As such, my post has no real meaning beyond pointing out where my mistake was.
By that logic, if the paintballs are every bit as frightening as real bullets, then the real bullets cannot be more frightening than the paintballs.
Yeah, I didn't word that very well. I meant they are as afraid of paintballs as we would be of bullets, and they would be as afraid of bullets as we would be of a direct hit from a Howitzer cannon.
This thread kind of died. MJ, I don't think you're understanding the potential here. No guns at all. Everyone plays dead. Period. When the verser/imaginary criminal DOES build a real gun, the world is horrified. It's so deep into their culture that, despite the fact that people are dying, there's debate over whether or not to "Stoop to his level" of using a real weapon. There's protests. Maybe it's an election year, and that's the candidate's platform. Whether or not to "Stoop to their level" of using real weapons to fight back. Maybe it even requires a presidential amendment to the constitution or something. That's how deep is is. Meanwhile, the verser/criminal is out there, people are dying, people are scared, and it's just getting slowly worse. A month and a half after the first actual shooting death, someone didn't play dead in a gunfight. He just kept coming. The police, fearing he may be the shooter, opened up on him with enough paintballs to put him down with multiple bruises and minor skin lacerations. A tactic which has been known to work against the shooter, although, with his superior firepower, it doesn't last very long. This was covered by the news. "Someone didn't play dead!!!!!" The System is starting to decay. This would be a perfect world to run me through.
It occurs to me that a paintball gun would be an annoying weapon, but an expert with one would be easily capable of killing someone. We can't have that, now can we? So do the paintball guns do annoying damage, regardless of the person's skill?
MJ, believe it or not, I used to be quite pacifistic. I understand that mindset. To these people, actual violence is unheard of. To these people, even loading the paintball gun with a glass marble (raise it to dangerous) would be unlikely. This would be a tactic police would use against the shooter though. It still wouldn't break the skin, but it would hurt quite a bit more. Loading the paintball guns with marbles. That's "Heavy Weaponry" to these people. That might work, until the verser/criminal gets around it. They don't want to kill the guy, even though he's killing them. If they can take him alive, that would make their day. Actually building a weapon of any kind is a last-resort option. How long will he elude them? How long before The System falls completely apart? And that's just one way it could run.
Ya know what? I just solved the problem of how paintball guns didn't replace real guns in the society. Real guns never existed. It's a development of Counting Coup warfare. First it was sticks. As the technology improved, so did the methods of Counting Coup, and so did Da Rulez!!! All attacks had to be annoying or lower. The methods changed. The Yo-Yo was developed as a Counting Coup weapon. An expert with a Yo-Yo in a Counting Coup fight would be a formidable adversary. Then someone got the bright idea to use water balloons filled with dye. There emerged an arms race of sorts, as people started trying to figure out better ways of throwing those water balloons. You ever seen those big slingshots that can throw a water balloon 100 yards? Imagine a fortress defended by rows and rows of those slingshots. This of course led to the invention of the paintball gun, which is the mainstay weapon of police and military personnel the world over. I mean, at its core, it's just a gun that shoots water balloons. Real guns need not have ever existed. Hunting doesn't happen. Trapping and raising animals for food, but no hunting.
(Doing Therapy)
MJ, I did kind of want some input on that. If time was or still is short, that's cool, but I was more concerned with if you thought the explanation of the paintball guns was plausible.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
So how do you do warfare? Vehicle engagement. The vehicles are designed with mirrors or some other such visual aids such that the occupants can see if they've been hit.
Aerial engagement is handled through a point system. Enemy pilots are in constant radio contact (different frequency for talking to your buddies). After a radio call of "Number 468, you've been hit" The pilot visual checks for paintball hits, and if he has taken a lethal hit, returns to base. Planes are occasionally brought down by the firing of paintballs, and some pilots do get killed. This is a tragic loss felt by both sides. However, no pilot has ever been accused of doing it intentionally, as their remorse is always greatest. Aerial combat is extremely restricted over populated areas, due to the danger of planes crashing. If you can make it to within so many miles of the populated area you're about to bomb, all attacks must cease. Your bombing mission just succeeded.
"Bombs" are huge balloons full of dye, with a pressurization system. When dropped, they slowly pressurize until it would only take one ounce of additional pressure to effectively "Explode" the bomb. It gets this one ounce (and many more) on impact. (Imagine a huge pimple popping on the mirror. Or don't.) If your house is hit, it has been destroyed. You have 24 hours to vacate and take what possessions you can carry in a single vehicle, in a single trip. ("And they said I was crazy for having a pickup truck with a 25 foot bed" Bubba, interviewed following a bombing attack.)
Ground vehicle engagement isn't a "One hit and you're dead" it's a hit point system. It takes so many square inches of paint coverage to "Destroy" a vehicle, based on a system agreed upon by all. Civilian vehicles are not considered "Destroyed" if they are required for the move out. A direct hit from a bomb will take a vehicle out, but it would take dozens or hundreds of paintball hits. After this, the vehicle's occupants call for a pick up, and the vehicle can be used by the other side, after being washed of all paintballs. It is not uncommon for enemy soldiers to drive the defeated foe back to their base in the captured vehicle. Giving them a helping hand, but rubbing it in at the same time. You have a sort of diplomatic immunity to being shot in this instance. It is also expected that, in these instances, the enemy base will provide you with a full tank of gas and a day's food rations. After you reach a "So many miles away point" you once again become a legitimate target. I'm thinking vehicles would be marked with flags or something.
Thoughts?
John, I don't care how brilliant it is, put it in a file on the computer!!!!!!
(Doing Therapy)
Sorry, John--I'm not obliged to post to indicate that I don't particularly care about the content of a post. Part of that is certainly that I have been overwhelmed with posts of late; part of that is that I put forward the idea and was satisfied with the response and since I'm not using it for anything I'm not interested in pursuing it further.
--M. J. Young
I'm not interested in pursuing it further.
Well, I think it is an INSANELY cool idea. Having gone from pacifism to violence, (both extremes) I think I understand the mindset of these people very well. They're trying to find a middle ground between the two. I thought I could rekindle interest from the other participants on the board. Since no one has, I might just work on this on my own. Just gotta get some therapy going so I can think about it more clearly. Who knows? I might finish the world.