Planning a Durnmist (Alpha) Wedding · Page 2

I have no idea about the interview - dialog is a weakness of mine as a writer.

Likewise with the vows. If I write this myself it's going to come off in a weird poetic structure that's basically just... not right.

As for the family heads followed by the couple at the end, I like that.

Sigh.

Well, I'll put my fingers to it another day; today is busy.

--M. J. Young

Compiling from the thread plus filling in the blanks, I am composing a script for the wedding.

The guests gather, mingle, find seats. There is a table in the front on which is a long bolt of white cloth and a pair of matching bracelets, engraved with the names "John and Arabella".

Harry closes the door to the outside and walks to the front of the room. There he introduces himself by name and family, "I am Commander John Sevenwinds, [I am assuming this is how you will identify yourself], and it is my intention this day to become husband of Arabella, daughter of Jacob son of Fabri, if she will accept me".

Arabella emerges from somewhere near the back and stands by the (still closed) rear doors, whence she says, "I am Arabella, second daughter of Jacob son of Fabri, and it is my intention this day to become wife of Commander John Sevenwinds, if he will accept me."

Harry and Arabella say together, "We will."

Harry and Arabella walk to meet each other in the middle of the room, and he gives her his right arm to escort her to the table.

Captain Peter, in dress uniform, and Jacob son of Fabri, in his best suit, come forward, and stand between the couple and the table, facing the gathering.

Jacob son of Fabri speaks. "Commander John Sevenwinds, do you promise to care for this treasure of our house to the best of your ability for the rest of your lives?"

Harry answers, "I do, sir."

Jacob continues, "Do you promise to be faithful to her, as she remains faithful to you?"

Harry answers, "I do sir."

Jacob continues, "Do you promise to nurse her in times of illness, support her in times of want, and live your life with her best interests in view?"

Harry answers, "I do sir."

Jacob continues, "Do you promise to acknowledge and care for any offspring this marriage may produce?"

Harry answers, "I do sir."

Jacob continues, "Do you promise, as life allows, to protect the interests of the Fabri family, that we may not lose our daughter and sister or her descendants, but ever have her part of our family?"

Harry answers, "I do sir."

Jacob finishes, "Thank you, Commander John Sevenwinds

Captain Peter speaks. "Arabella, daughter of Jacob son of Fabri, do you promise to care for this treasure of our house to the best of your ability for the rest of your lives?"

Arabella answers, "I do, sir."

Peter continues, "Do you promise to be faithful to him, as he remains faithful to you?"

Arabella answers, "I do sir."

Peter continues, "Do you promise to nurse him in times of illness, support him in times of want, and live your life with his best interests in view?"

Arabella answers, "I do sir."

Peter continues, "Do you promise to acknowledge and care for any offspring this marriage may produce?"

Arabella answers, "I do sir."

Peter continues, "Do you promise, as life allows, to protect the interests of the Sevenwinds family, that we may not lose our son and brother or his descendants, but ever have him part of our family?"

Arabella answers, "I do sir."

Peter finishes, "Thank you, Arabella daughter of Jacob son of Fabri."

Jacob and Peter pick up the cloth, each taking an end, and walk toward the gathering past the couple, as the couple turn to face each other. Jacob and Peter then each hand their end to the other, and walk back toward the table, wrapping the couple in the cloth.

Harry then says to Arabella, "Arabella, daughter of Jacob son of Fabri, I give my life to you for as long as we both have life."

Arabella then says to Harry, "Commander John Sevenwinds, I give my life to you for as long as we both have life."

Jacob and Peter look at each other as if they are discussing an important matter, then turn toward the gathering and together say, "We are agreed."

Harry and Arabella then say, "Our lives are joined."

Peter and Jacob then each pick up one of the bracelets. Peter gives one to Arabella, helping her put it on her left wrist; Jacob similarly helps Harry put the other on his left wrist.

It needs a finish. Anyone have a suggestion that fits the rest?

--M. J. Young

I've got it:

The groom then offers the bride his left arm, and as the two walk toward the door, the gathering rises to its feet and applauds. He opens the door and escorts her outside.

From that point, it would sometimes be the case that they couple greet departing guests, but other times (as in this case) the families and guests would start moving the furniture and the couple would return to the room, because the party/reception is happening in the same room.

--M. J. Young

From the game thread, Harry writes

the shape of a Mobius Strip, because it is a symbol of infinity, which just strikes me as fitting on so many levels. (The idea being that they are essentially a long segmented chain, I'm picturing something visually akin to a flexible watch band, that goes around the wrist twice and clips to itself on one side.) Despite this, I will ask that mine be easily removable, since I can't wear it while I'm working for safety reasons.

I'm exploring this in my mind, and having trouble with it.

First, a Mobius Strip is only a single circle with a single twist, so I'm not certain why it goes around the wrist twice.

Second, although watchbands could work that way with their spring-loaded links, with a chain more period it would be very difficult to create the image of something "flat" and thus the more difficult to put a twist in it.

Third, if it is at all snug enough not to fall off over the hand, the single twist is going to be uncomfortable.

Fourth, if it unclasps and is a chain, then the single twist is something that has to be done as it is being clasped, and it will require a type of clasp that does not allow twisting at the clasp point.

In partial solution of the above, I am envisioning a band that is forged of a flat strip of metal, perhaps platinum, with a hinge to one side and a clasp to the other, so that it opens and closes in a straight line. The single twist could not be at either the clasp (or it would tend to unlatch itself) or the hinge (or it would not open in the right direction), and thus must be to one side between the two. It is confined to one point, as would be a gem setting on a ring, and also serves as a setting for a pair of emeralds that sit on opposite sides of the band. They could be at the point at which it is perpendicular to the skin, or they could be placed such that one is atop the band on each side of that point, that is, in the section where the curve is formed. Alternatively, there could be a single, larger, stone, the band being drilled at that point and the stone passing through it. The setting would naturally include an underband of sorts which would help support the stones and incidentally would shield the wrist against the twist. The bracelets are ovoid, so that they "fit" the wrists rather than rolling around them, and thus the setting remains to the outside of the wrist.

Comments or improvements or obvious problems?

--M. J. Young

First, a Mobius Strip is only a single circle with a single twist, so I'm not certain why it goes around the wrist twice.

Because it's folded in half and the Mobius Strip fold would be needed to keep it from bunching up.

Third, if it is at all snug enough not to fall off over the hand, the single twist is going to be uncomfortable.

Yeah, that's what the Mobias Strip fold fixes.

As far as safety, you're right to be concerned. Uncle Bob told me about a time he was working on a car with another guy. The other guy got his wedding ring caught on something in the engine, and it ripped his finger clean off. Uncle Bob took off his wedding ring and never put it back on.

I was picturing it going around the wrist in a figure-8, but I see now how that isn't strictly necessary. Still, I see that A1nut has seen where I was going with that, and I would prefer to keep it that way.

As for it being a solid platinum band that hinges open to one side, that's fine. And A1Nut is right about the Mobius fold fixing both the flatness and the discomfort, or at least he and I are once again on the same wavelength.

I don't entirely follow the visualization in MJ's large block of description at the end there, but I think he's generally on the right track (and he and I will probably end up picturing this somewhat differently regardless - it's sort of inevitable if you think about it). I like the idea of two inset stones - one in green for me, one in blue for her, and in opposite positions on each other's?

And yes, the clasp has to be simple enough that I can take it off at work. Again I'm picturing the kind of thing you would close a wristwatch with, one of those hinge-and-clip sort of things.

It has been a long time since I've seen a mobius strip; I know how to make one, but it seems a bit silly for me to make one just to resolve this. I gather that it's natural for a flexible mobius strip to curl so as to cross itself and make two loops "hanging" in the same general direction; but when I trace that with my finger in the air, I don't get a mobius--I still have the problem that at some point the band needs to twist so as to have the "inside" become the "outside". Also, if it goes around twice then it needs either two hinges or two clasps.

The watch clasp you describe seems rather complex to me; I don't think they had them when I was first wearing a watch. My concept is simpler, a sort of plug and socket arrangement in which the plug has two rounded prongs spring-loaded against the inside, and when it is inserted into the socket the prongs squeeze toward each other. Depressed to the correct distance, they find two slots in the side of the socket and spring out into these, securing the latch. To remove this, you apply pressure to the prongs so they are pushed flush to the slots, and then the plug slides out of the socket easily. The plug is flat, and so the socket is also flat. I've seen this on numerous bracelets and a few necklaces over the years.

Her stone would be green. She will probably favor green and red-brown, as she has green eyes and auburn hair. I certainly don't mind if yours is green, too; as we know, emeralds are readily available, and indeed you have a few of your own tucked away somewhere, I think.

O.K., I gave up and made a mobius strip, and I see the way it crosses and becomes an infinity symbol--but there is still a half twist in one side, which means you haven't resolved the problem. (Go ahead--make one and see what it looks like if you pass something like a straw or pen or something through it--one side lies flat, but the other side still has the single twist in it.) So you're stuck with putting the twist somewhere, and rather than make it an uncomfortable hidden flaw it makes more sense to make it prominent and use it as the setting. When I do it with paper, the twist tends to spread; but if it were metal you could tighten it and arrange it such that it comes right up to the setting flat against the wrist, rises slightly, twists sharply such that there is a point at which the flat is perfectly perpendicular to the wrist on all planes, and continues beyond that to be flat but inverted to continue to the clasp. This gives you a small area characterized by the band twisting sharply from 0 to 45 to 90 degrees and beyond to 135 and then 180 degrees. My three suggestions were:

1. place the stones on the 45 degree slopes as it rises toward the perpendicular;
2. place the stones exactly at the perpendicular, on opposite sides of the center;
3. drill the band at the perpendicular and pass a single stone through it, so it appears as two stones when looked at from above but as one when viewed from the side.

--M. J. Young

I like your #3 the best. Let's go with that.

I wonder how that looks like.

Does it look anything like in the picture on the links below?
1) Picture of Mobius strip bracelet with infinity symbol.

2) Silver infinity bangle.

I think I know what Osevens is getting at. Take a flat rubber band and wrap it around your wrist twice. See that fold that it has where it crosses over? The Mobius Strip takes out that fold where it crosses over.

(Doing Therapy)

Two

Since it's already twisted like that, the twist you saw isn't in it anymore. It looks like 2 bracelets but is really only one. Osevens, that is REALLY COOL!!!!!

On a more personal note, Mobius Strips are fascinating.

(Doing Therapy)

A1Nut with the being spot-on once again. It's exactly like that.

*ahem*

A mathematician confided
That Mobius strips are one-sided.
You're in for a laugh
If you cut it in half
For it stays in one piece when divided.

Yes. Someone wrote a limerick about them.

Osevens, I posted twice, did you see both of them?

We think a lot alike.

(Doing Therapy)

I did, and yes, you're right about the bracelet on all counts.

Did you ever do a 2 twist Mobius? When you cut that down the center, it turns into a paper chain.

(Doing Therapy)

Unfortunately I do not seem to have a rubber band here. I do, however, have a mobius strip, which I made yesterday, and there is no way to twist or turn it such that the half-twist does not appear. Wait--I have a headband in my coat pocket. Look at that--when you do what you describe, you get a twist in the band, but it's not a half twist--it's a full twist. Trace it with your finger, and you'll see that the same side is the outside on both sides of the twist. Further, it would have to be so, because otherwise you would need another half twist to put it right again--you would actually have turned the rubber band into a mobius strip.

Oh, two other minor points.

1. If it has a full twist, it's not a mobius strip. The particularly unique thing about a mobius strip is that both sides are continuous, and a full twist gives you two discrete sides.
2. If you cut the mobius strip in half as described, you get a single loop, but with a full twist as you describe. If you then cut that in half, you get the joined loops.

Otherwise, I think the matter is settled, and as long as that terrible one-sided sea monster Mobius Dick does not attack us we should be able to put this together.

--M. J. Young

MJ, wrap your Mobius strip around your wrist twice. That's what Osevens wants. You'll see it lays flat all the way around.

No, it doesn't. I've already tried. When I wrap my headband around my wrist twice, it has a full twist; a mobius strip has a half twist I would need to make the bracelet with a full twist to have it lie flat all the way around--and that's not a mobius strip.

Try it yourself.

--M. J. Young

So a Mobius strip with a full twist then. It's STILL what he wants!!

What MJ was saying (If I interpreted correctly) is that a mobius strip with a full twist isn't a mobius strip. The half twist is what defines it as a mobius strip and allows every part to be continuous and on the same face. A mobius strip with a full twist is just a circle with a twist, still has two sides and nothing particularly exciting to be seen there.

I think you could be correct. I don't have any rubber bands either. Let Osevens decide.

(Doing Therapy)

Two

Sorry, that sounded a little rude on the last page. I don't have any rubber bands, but I figured that was what he was going after. Osevens, what do you think?

(Doing Therapy)

A1Nut has it right on the head. You guys actually made me go find a rubber band so I could be sure I was picturing this right. Yes, it looks like a rubber band that has been twisted over, only when you look closely you realize that the twist that ought to be there on a twisted rubber band is in fact not there, subsumed by the half-twist that makes it a Mobius strip. And yes, it goes around the forearm twice, with the 'twist' part on top, where the gems are. And if that still makes no sense or creates something physically impossible... oh well.

Seeing as this is all just in our heads anyway, and we're probably going to continue picturing it differently despite debating this for like a full page now, can we just say that's the final version and leave it at that?

If you gave the thing a twist and a half, couldn't it go around the forearm twice with the half-twist resting atop the point of crossover, perpendicular to the lie of the bracelet?

I'm using the version I described.

Just to be clear:

1. What John 2 describes is not what Harry ostensibly wants. The point of the mobius strip, as I understood it, was that aspect of it having "only one side", which happens because it has a half twist. If it has a full twist, it has two sides, the same side attached to itself.
   It suddenly strikes me that you could make a sort of "mobius bar" by using a metal bar that is cut square, twisting it ninety degrees, and welding the ends together. In this case, if you traced one face with a pencil, you would travel down the length of all four faces before you reached your starting point. I'm probably not the first person to have thought of that, and it's not important for the symbolism of a bracelet in which two sides become one side, but it intrigued me and I thought it might help people understand.
2. I am not doing this entirely in my head. I was for the first day or so, but then I got myself a cloth band that that was connected in a loop and a homemade mobius strip, and attempted to get them to do what is described here. The band makes a full three hundred sixty degree twist to go around the wrist twice; the one hundred eighty degree half twist in the mobius strip doesn't solve the problem but still gives you half a twist whether you go around once or twice. I still have the mobius strip sitting next to me. It doesn't do what you think it does.

--M. J. Young

The band makes a full three hundred sixty degree twist to go around the wrist twice

Just to be clear, how are you wrapping it around your wrist? Put your hand in it, twist it and then put it back around your wrist. It would make a figure 8 around your wrist. I know it might sound like a stupid thing to ask, but I just wanted to make sure we were clear on everything.

(Doing Therapy)

Two

Yeah, I didn't have any rubber bands either. Use a flat belt. You can make both kinds of twists with it. MJ is right. It would take a full twist to fix it. Well, at least we're clear on everything.

(Doing Therapy)

Ya know, I just had this weird thought. What if this world's physics were so different from our own that the half-twist mobius strip would lay flat all the way around, and the full twist was a half twist too many? I know it sounds weird, but this IS the multiverse, and anything is possible in the multiverse. It would defy the known laws of physics on our world. What better way to prove himself an inter-dimensional traveler if he ever needs to? Just a thought. It would only not work if a mobius strip's level of technology (Whatever that may be) was biased out.

(Doing Therapy)

I may be misinterpreting how the multiverse is supposed to work or my mind just can't separate itself from physics but the mobius strip by my understanding isn't actually a physics anomaly, it's a pattern that happens to fulfill a unique criteria. If it were a perpetual motion device where something moved along the side the entire time I could see this being different based on physics, but the object itself is a pattern defined not so much by how the world works but the interpretation of our mind, which doesn't change from world to world.

I think that was phrased a little abstractly so I'll try to summarize.
A mobius strip from my understanding isn't an aspect of physics but an aspect of mathematics, and mathematics are simply a tool used to form models, which is what a mobius strip is.

No, the anomaly would be that on this world, a full twist isn't needed. Use a flat belt. Put a half twist in it, and wrap it twice around your arm. Then put a full twist in it and wrap it twice around your arm. It only lays flat with a full twist. What I'm saying is that the physics of Durnmist are so radically different from the physics of earth that we are used to, that the bracelet would lay flat with only a half twist. You can't imagine how it would work because it wouldn't work. It violates our known laws of physics. However, could the physics of Durnmist be so radically different that this is the norm? An object which would defy the laws of physics could only exist from outside that known universe.

(Doing Therapy)

Sorry, John, Mike is right--it's not a different physics but a different geometry you want. And of course, there's no particular reason I can't find a way to put a verser into a world with a different geometry--but something like that would be evident from the first instant you arrived.

As far as using such an object in another universe to show that you had been in an alien universe with a different geometry, I think that in conforming to the geometry of the new universe the object would have to gain something. The bracelet you described, if it were taken to a universe with a "normal" geometry, would either snap or contort into a twisted mass (and that would be very painful for the wearers).

But if John were in a world with an alternate geometry, he would have noticed it when he tried to tie his familiar knots in their alien ropes.

--M. J. Young

That makes more sense. It was a cool idea though.

(Doing Therapy)