I guess the question though is, which would be the worse outcome? Loretta Lynn never getting married and living a relatively normal life, or her becoming "The First Lady of Country Music"? Loretta herself is the only person who could answer that question.
Loretta probably cannot answer that question herself.
We can't know that she would not have become a great country music singer (if such a thing is even possible--my mind boggles at the concept) absent the abusive husband.
We don't know whether she would have married another abusive man; in fact, we don't know with certainty (warning: politically incorrect thoughts about to be expressed) that she did not bring the abuse upon herself and would not have done the same with another man. I know at least one blustery drunk who married a hot-tempered woman, and when they fight he is always the one who gets blamed even though she starts it as often as not. She throws dangerous objects at him; he hits her back to stop her. They put him in jail. We don't know that Loretta Lynn isn't the same sort of violent-tempered woman who incites fights and then gets the sympathy of being an abused woman. It seems not, but we really mostly know her side of the story, and one thing I've learned about stories is they are definitely as polyhedral as my dice bag.
And everything else aside, I'm sure that Loretta Lynn is happy with her fame and fortune as a country music star, but would the world be that much worse off if Dolly Parton was still the most famous female in that genre? Dolly Parton would be better off.
We have the world we have, and it's all we really know. We can imagine better and we can imagine worse, but mostly we can only imagine different and not know whether it would be better or worse.
--M. J. Young
Then there's the other side of the token. There's a young woman who is pregnant. She has a nightmare that her unborn son is the Antichrist and wants to have an abortion. Do you think she should have one?
Congratulations. You just spared Adolf Hitler.
I'm dubious of any arguement that can be applied to the present just as easily as the past. Any interaction with another human carries the possibility of eventually indirectly killing countless people. Furthermore, actions taken to change the past are actually safer, since we know how things turn out if the action isn't taken, giving us a frame of reference. Now, I'd actually be adverse to interfering by killing Adolf Hitler, since it'd introduce far too many unknowns with great potential for disaster. Without him, it's difficult to say who would rise to power in Germany to enact a vengeful war against the original Allied Powers, and potentially it'd be someone equally murderous and a good deal more competent. The odds are against it being nobody.
You might be better off if you killed Neville Chamberlain.
Don't know who that is. Personally, I wouldn't want to change history. No matter what it was.
"Anything you do can have serious repercussions on future events. Do you understand?"
Doctor Emmett Brown, Back to the Future.
(Doing Therapy)
You might be better off if you killed Neville Chamberlain.
Questionable. Doing that would have led to a Battle of Britain where the British had fewer Hurricanes, Spitfires, and radar installations, which would not end well for them.
And everything else aside, I'm sure that Loretta Lynn is happy with her fame and fortune as a country music star, but would the world be that much worse off if Dolly Parton was still the most famous female in that genre? Dolly Parton would be better off.
When asked "Are those really yours?" I've read that Dolly Parton replies "Yup, they're mine. All bought and paid for." (If I need to explain that, you've been living under a rock for a very long time)
(Doing Therapy)
Neville Chamberlain was the British Prime Minister before Churchhill. He is infamous for going to visit Hitler, and making a deal to give Hitler Sudetenland, and coming back and telling everyone 'I've secured peace in our time'.
He's the Icon for Clueless Liberal Leader negotiating with Rapacious Dictator.
==========
Hitler said that if he had gotten any serious opposition early on he would have folded. So, while you have a point, it might not have come to war....?????
Hitler said that if he had gotten any serious opposition early on he would have folded. So, while you have a point, it might not have come to war....?????
Meanwhile, the German scientists are still working on their superweapon programs. Germany was developing weapons which would be formidable by 1980s standards. So the war is delayed for 10 years. And now Germany has a massive stockpile of these superweapons and easily wins the war.
(Doing Therapy)
Here's how it boils down for me.
If I see a person I have reasonable suspicion means me no harm and they are about to face certain death, and I have time to act and prevent it, I will do so.
I think that's a fact for every single one of my verser characters, too.
If I see a person I have reasonable suspicion means me no harm and they are about to face certain death, and I have time to act and prevent it, I will do so.
I bet Marty McFly was thinking something very similar when he pushed George out of the way out Lorraine's father's car.......
(Doing Therapy)
Probably was, and look how that came out in the end.
Kyler, would you rather have a 50/50 chance not exist vs exist rich and popular, or have a 100% chance to exist? Seriously, I'd rather exist as a dork than not exist at all. Sorry, I think it's better to be a living coward than a dead hero.
(Doing Therapy)
I'd rather be the dead unknown hero, actually. It makes for better storytelling.
Sorry, I think it's better to be a living coward than a dead hero.
Ah, but is it better to be a living hero or a dead coward? You left those two possibilities out of your analysis.
--M. J. Young
For your consideration on to live a coward or die a hero:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCNgNk3lmHE
O.K., that was odd, and I'm not at all sure I got the point of it. It sounds to me like it was a choice between dying a hero or dying a coward--which might be my point.
--M. J. Young
The song plays with a couple of things, I always took it as better to live a coward then to leave behind those you care about with nothing but glory but no one.
"Billy don't be a hero, don't be a fool with your life.
Billy don't be a hero, come back and make me your wife.
And as he started to go, she cried 'Billy keep your head low.'
Billy don't be a hero, come back to me."
And of course, he was a hero. Look where it got him.
He doesn't sound like a hero to me.
He sounds like an idiot.
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Did anyone else notice that the problems with the site started when they changed the number of threads for 30 to 45? Is that the reason?
It happened before, but it was like a bump or two, now it's up to 12 on some threads and getting worse on some threads, others made before, not as much.
I think the posts per page increase coincided with other updates.
I noticed it was happening before we went to 45 posts before a new page. I remember because I was like "sweet longer between bumps"
You having trouble seeing the post in that thread, Adam? I can see it...
I got it after 44 bumps :P
Next time that happens, go to the top address bar, and change the page number to one number higher. You can read the post, back page to reply to it, and not waste a dozen posts per page with bumps. If everyone did that, I mean. Aaron said it was just a temporary glitch. Let's work with it. Don't bump the page, read the posts and reply as normal. Let's be smarter than the website.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
It's random chat, so let's be random. In Star Trek TNG, Tasha Yar, a 5 foot 6 blonde woman is the Chief of Security, as well as being a Tactical Officer. Worf, a 6 foot 4 Klingon is a Tactical Officer. Am I the only one who thinks the 6 foot 4 Klingon is a MUCH better choice for Chief of Security? As much as I liked the character of Tasha Yar, I must say that the show was improved when Worf became Chief of Security. Anyone else with me? Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't turn my nose up at having Tasha Yar watching my back in a fight, but something just tells me the 6 foot 4 Klingon would be better able to protect my life.
(Doing Therapy)
"Here's one for all of you who want to change history. There's a 13 year old girl who wants to marry a man old enough to be her father. He will abuse her verbally and physically, cheat on her and get her pregnant 4 times before she's 20 years old. On top of all of that, she will never see her father again. It's already happened. Based solely on this information, you can go back and prevent the marriage. Do you?
If you said yes, you just talked Loretta Lynn out of marrying the guy that started her singing career. Sometimes history shouldn't be changed, no matter what it is. "
That is just amoral. You say that you would allow a human being to undergo years of suffering so that you can enjoy the soulful sound of the voice her suffering has spawned? I don't care WHO it is, I will not allow such abuse to go on when I know about it. I can andwill beat the smeg out of such abusers that I catch in the act, then rescue the abused. In fact, In one case, I have. So you think such a thing is OK if it benefits you, do you? Are you REALLY so self centered?
You undergo a form of suffering every day of your life! Would you really wish it on someone else? Were I able, I would end your condition in any way i could that results in positive change for you in an instant. Would you not help someone who is suffering if you could?
Brock, you have a tendency to read deliberate insult in where none was meant or implied.
That's the problem. You're not seeing The Big Picture. How many millions of people did the music of Loretta Lynn inspire? What of those millions of people? Can you say with certainly that there wasn't someone about to commit suicide who heard Loretta Lynn on the radio, and changed their mind? What kind of inspiration did people draw? Prove to me that a doctor wasn't inspired to cure a disease by the music of Loretta Lynn. Prove to me that her music didn't inspire someone to do something of importance to humanity. I daresay the world would be poorer in the extreme if not for the music of Loretta Lynn. One person suffered. Millions benefited from it. You would stop the suffering of one, and in turn, bring immeasurable suffering down upon everyone else. If my suffering could ease the suffering of millions, you better believe I would suffer for it.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"
Vulcan proverb.
Cold and inhuman, but true nonetheless.
(Doing Therapy)
No insult was seen. Only an amoral opinion. Forcing unwanted, unnecessary pain on an individual in order to change them, even should the end result be positive, is unacceptable. If I had the opportunity to stop it, I would.
Further, there will ALWAYS be inspirational people so long as people have the capacity to change. I submit that should someone rescue her ahead of time from the pain she endured, she would be grateful and eventually move on to use her creative energy in some area regardless. Perhaps after some therapy if needed.
In a somehwat similar manner to Kyler's soft spot for abused little girls, I have a soft spot for anyone who has been abused. Perhaps because I was abused to the point where I quite literally had begun plans to murder the one responsible, and it was worse for my mother. Do you know what it is like to sit and watch as your father picks up your mother by the throat and throws her against a window repeatedly, just so he could see how long it would take for THE WINDOW TO BREAK?
No. Never again. Abuse is completely unacceptable, and if I see it, teeth will be missing. That's an oath.
Anyway, I can't direct my web browser to a specific website, so I need to bump a thread to see it. My web browser is not smarter than the site.
We're talking about Loretta Lynn here; how many abused women do you think have heard her story and felt even more hopeless about their lot in life and killed themselves?
Can you prove to me that there's no one who has ever heard their wife listening to her music and beaten her just for listening to it?
Can you say with certainty that there isn't anyone who absolutely detests country music to the point that hearing her sing makes them want to chew off their own ears?
The question of what she went on to do becomes irrelevant as soon as we save her; unfortunately, "going back and preventing the marriage" also creates an infinity loop.
Assuming, of course, that such an error in time is even possible under the rules of reality that you are currently operating in.