John, he who laughs last is the slowest. I'm not saying that you missed the joke, I'm saying that you missed the joke after someone else highlighted it.
One of my favorite gags in the comedy F Troop is almost impossible to reproduce. Sergeant O'Rourke is trying to figure out something, and Corporal Agarn makes a completely unrelated comment in which Sarge sees his answer. He says, "That's it, Agarn. I don't know why people say you're so stupid." They leave, move through another scene, come to some other place, and Agarn suddenly burst out, "Who says I'm stupid?"
Took him long enough.
You knew I had a penchant for double entendres. My direct meaning of "Weeding Out" had to do with being rid of the problem by addressing it. My direct meaning of "the MJ Problem" was that it was a problem related to Marijuana, which (at least when I was in high school) is sometimes called "MJ" even without the reference to Spiderman's girlfriend. But I chose those particular expressions because Marijuana is also called "Weed" and because I am known as "MJ", and thus both parts of the title had double meanings.
And you were not included in those meanings except by paranoid inference: you inferred that I was trying to be rid of you, when all I said was that I was trying to get rid of the marijuana problem.
Brock saw the double meanings in the words, and commented without explanation. You made four more posts on the thread, and then in the fifth one finally realized that there was a potential double meaning in the title. What did you think Brock meant?
I apologize for offending you. However, one of the suspected side effects of marijuana is that it stunts intellectual process. That is, from the Mayo Clinic article James cited:
* Impairment of thinking, problem-solving skills and memory
My point was not that you are intellectually inferior; I never say that about anyone, and even though there's a good probability that I (99.8th percentile on a test taken only by people who think they're smart enough to go to law school and have managed to prove it in a few years of college) am intellectually superior to any given individual, I actually never think I am. I treat everyone as being as smart as I, and rarely notice when they are not.
My point was not that you are intellectually inferior, but that one of the alleged side effects of marijuana is that it stunts intellectual ability, and the fact that you missed the obvious double entendres even after someone highlighted them could be cited as evidence that you were suffering the effects of such intellectual stunting.
Roll that in your papers and smoke it.
--M. J. Young
And you were not included in those meanings except by paranoid inference: you inferred that I was trying to be rid of you, when all I said was that I was trying to get rid of the marijuana problem.
Paranoia is part of my diagnosis. Not surprising.
My point was not that you are intellectually inferior, but that one of the alleged side effects of marijuana is that it stunts intellectual ability, and the fact that you missed the obvious double entendres even after someone highlighted them could be cited as evidence that you were suffering the effects of such intellectual stunting.
At best it's unsupported anecdotal evidence. There's unsupported anecdotal evidence of intellectual stunt for everyone on the board, as I've pointed out. Proves nothing. Besides, I'll take a few "DUH" moments to be rid of the psychosis. Even if that is a side-effect, it's still much preferred to many, many of the others I got from FDA approved drugs. This is PERMANENT REDUCTION of the psychosis. The doctor-prescribed drugs gave me (at best) temporary relief. A few "DUH" moments here and there are a small price to pay.
(Doing Therapy)
I think it maybe time for the group collectively to now allow this type of behavior to be acknowledged anymore. No good ever comes from these threads.
I'm with Adam on this one, and at that this is my last post on this discussion.
Nobody even touched on this. I am not treating my psychosis, I'm CURING it!!!! FDA approved drugs don't do that, the side effects are completely unbearable, and I didn't like them. I've found an all-natural cure to my condition. Nobody seems to want to touch that. I'll take a few "DUH" moments to be rid of this. Sure as Heaven beats the Caffeine/Nicotine fit feeling I had with one that just took the edge off the psychosis.
Side effects I can live with and enjoy for the most part, for permanent reduction of the psychosis, instead of side-effects which were painful and dangerous for (at best) a temporary reduction. Why is this so hard for all of you to see?
(Doing Therapy)
Two
MJ, you keep saying is it safe? People have been smoking it and using it for thousands upon thousands of years. No one has yet died from its use. How much more proof do you need?
bump
Everybody is stuck on the negatives. No one is seeing the positives. I feel better than I have ever felt in my entire life, my psychosis is a lot more under control, I often wonder if I finally feel like a "Normal Person." No one seems to want to touch that. You're all too preoccupied with the negatives. Did you even read what I put down about the side-effects, just to have a temporary drop? The side-effects of using weed go away after you stop using it. If I stopped now, all the side-effects would go away. They pale in comparison to others I've had. PERMANENT REDUCTION OF PSYCHOSIS!!!! No one wants to touch on that.
More than one, first on the last page
MJ, seriously, think about it. You do remember a few years back when I was writing you the 3 or 4 letters, 6 pages long, saying the same thing over and over? It was about the same time I was in Pearl Harbor, now that I think about it. I didn't even realize it was the anti-psychotic doing that to me. Technically, that means the anti-psychotic was making me insane. It was FDA approved and kept the psychosis in check. Would you prefer it if I was still on that? How long has it been since I've flooded your mailbox? Can you honestly say you haven't seen a reduction in my posting habits lately? This is an exception, of course, as this is a a topic about which I feel quite strongly. Forget for a moment that it's illegal. I found an all-natural cure for my condition. Not a fabricated, artificial patch, an all-natural cure. Is that not something to be proud of? And you never touched on how you as a Christian could declare God's creations to be evil.
(Doing Therapy)
More than one
And about whether or not it's safe. Do you know what the overdose limit is for THC? You would have to smoke a pound every minute for 30 minutes to OD. You would die from smoke inhalation first. (Besides, who can afford to burn 30 pounds at once?) Thirty pounds is more than most people would smoke in a lifetime. As far as overdosing, table salt is far more lethal. No one is touching on the positives.
(Doing Therapy)
More than one
And MJ, you keep telling me to stop listening to propaganda about this. Are you absolutely 100% without doubt certain that YOU are not the one listening to propaganda? I've seen some of those old "Don't smoke pot" videos that your generation grew up watching. Makes it look like smoking a joint will turn a normal person into a madman. I WAS a madman. Smoking joints turned me into a normal person. Seems like you're the one watching propaganda.
I've found an all-natural cure to my condition.
John, nowhere have I objected to you using this cure for your condition. I have objected to you promoting it for others.
Hey, I have asthma, and I've found that when I can't breath, albuterol opens my airways wonderfully well. They say that it probably also accelerates my heart rate and raises my blood pressure, but since I have a pretty strong heart and good moderate blood pressure those side effects don't worry me. So let me recommend that everyone take albuterol, because it has been so very good at treating my condition.
That's your error, John. You keep telling me in particular that I should use an illegal drug because it works to treat your entirely different condition. I'm not objecting to the fact that you use it; I'm objecting to the fact that you promote it on this forum. See the difference?
MJ, you keep saying is it safe?
And James found that material from the Mayo Clinic suggesting that it's not.
Are you absolutely 100% without doubt certain that YOU are not the one listening to propaganda?
Obviously not. I do know that the Mayo Clinic has an excellent reputation for honest and thorough medical information, and has in the past given unbiased positions that are contrary to the politically correct viewpoint. I think that's a strong basis for being upwards of 99% certain that the information they have disseminated is not propaganda.
I've seen some of those old "Don't smoke pot" videos that your generation grew up watching.
Wrong generation. I think I saw one of those, but I can't remember what grade I was in at the time and I'm not sure I really knew what it was about at the time. I'm aware of the anti-drug materials the military used in the thirties, forties, and fifties, but I wasn't subject to that kind of material by the late sixties/early seventies.
If anything, I grew up in a generation in which marijuana use was strongly promoted at the grass roots level and efforts to counter this were completely ineffectual. My opposition is an educated decision from years ago. I've seen how effective marijuana is--effective at preventing people from accomplishing anything useful or affirmative. Your case is different, since your disability means no one expects you to accomplish anything useful or affirmative. I'll keep my wits about me, thank you.
--M. J. Young
I've seen how effective marijuana is--effective at preventing people from accomplishing anything useful or affirmative.
Now if this isn't a load of horse manure. A very good friend of mine has been a stoner for about 25 years. He's also been on the same job for 20 of those years. He says he's never missed a single day of work, in all those 20 years. He's third in charge of the company, working his way up from a peon laborer. And he's a stoner. If that's doing nothing useful or affirmative, then everyone should do it.
Two
I also knew a lawyer, owned his own practice. Stoner. Morgan Freeman, George Carlin, both infamous stoners. George Carlin used to say "I'd wake up and try to figure out if I wanted to smoke a joint. I couldn't decide, so I would smoke a joint while I thought about it."
(Doing Therapy)
Earlier in the thread, in response to my statement, "God made man, so if man made it, God made it by proxy," you responded, "God doesn't make mistakes." I agree wholeheartedly.
You keep asking how we as Christians can say that God created something evil.
God created man.
Any more questions?
You keep asking how we as Christians can say that God created something evil.
God created man.
Any more questions?
And man is not inherently evil. Like everything else, we have evil applications.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
I would also like to add that through selective breeding if hemp and careful control of growth, the hemp we smoke today is not the same stuff the founding fathers were smoking.
When growing a plant, any serious smoker in the know will continuously trim the male parts from the plant; the female buds develop a sticky substance on them to catch some pollen from the now nonexistant male parts; this substance has a very high THC content (and is what makes those buds feel so sticky). Sometimes, it will even build so much that it will seem to "crystalize" on the buds (as I'm sure you've seen before).
The point being, God did not intend for this plant to be misused in the way many people use it any more than he intended man to breed, train, and fight pitbulls.
The point being, God did not intend for this plant to be misused in the way many people use it any more than he intended man to breed, train, and fight pitbulls.
So you know what God intends? You know what God wants? You speak for God? Stand back. Lightning is about to strike Kyler......
(Doing Therapy)
Did I say He does or doesn't intend us to use it for that purpose?
Nope, I didn't. You read it and saw what you wanted it to say; what I really said was "God does not intend for this plant to be misused in the way many people use it any more than He intended man to breed, train, and fight pitbulls."
Clearly, you presume He didn't intend man to make animals fight each other to the death; I didn't see where it specifically said that in the Bible. It said we have dominion over animals, but not that we can't breed them for violence.
I didn't know you spoke for God! Stand back, everyone!
Nope, I didn't. You read it and saw what you wanted it to say; what I really said was "God does not intend for this plant to be misused in the way many people use it any more than He intended man to breed, train, and fight pitbulls."
So you're saying you know how God intended for the plant to be used. You speak for God.
Two
All I know for sure is that I feel better than I ever have in my entire life. My worst day now is better than the best day I ever had in my life.
(Doing Therapy)
John, you were the first one to indicate that you knew how God intended for the plant to be used. You've said it repeatedly, when you've said that you're using a natural God-made remedy for your condition.
I'm not old enough to remember the debates, but I'm educated enough to know about them. People use to wonder whether the use of Ether and Aspirin to counter pain was against God's will, because God gave us pain. That's a lost battle at this point--everyone uses medicine to combat pain. As far as the debate is concerned, most people don't care whether God intends for people to suffer, we're going to put a stop to it.
Before you can reach the conclusion that God gave marijuana to treat your psychosis, you must first demonstrate that God intends for you to do anything about your psychosis other than suffer from it, and then there are several other steps necessary to get to the conclusion to which you've leapt.
You can't get there without deciding that you know what God wants.
--M. J. Young
Before you can reach the conclusion that God gave marijuana to treat your psychosis, you must first demonstrate that God intends for you to do anything about your psychosis other than suffer from it, and then there are several other steps necessary to get to the conclusion to which you've leapt.
Wow, I never thought about it like that. When I first started this therapy, my mom kept saying "That's of Satan!! To use something illegal like that!!!" My reply? "Yeah, Satan is curing me and God wants me to suffer.... Right...." My own personal belief is that God gave us a plant with thousands upon thousands of uses, and gave it to us to use in any way we could imagine. I think that if there is a constant in the Multiverse, this would be it. One of God's most versatile and enjoyable creations. I've heard that there is next to nothing made from synthetics which cannot be made naturally and more cheaply from hemp. Forgetting the fact that you get high. The hemp plant, the male, non-THC producing plant. Clothes, paper, medicine, the seeds are a good food source. You can make house insulation, name it. It can grow upwards of 20 or more feet tall in a matter of months. Since it is a weed, it can grow in nearly any soil, in all manner of environments. I've even read of a strain of marijuana found growing in sewers from people flushing seeds. Hemp, the non-THC producing plant is illegal to grow in the US. Nope, just keep making the synthetics. Pollute the environment, make stuff that doesn't decompose, all because you can smoke it and get a buzz. You can smoke catnip and get a buzz. No one is calling for its criminalization. It's almost as if hemp is illegal because it's so useful......
(Doing Therapy)
Two
I'm not sure whether to post this here or in Random Chat, as it has to do with both weed and Pearl Harbor. At least this way, you only have to open one thread.
You knew I liked guns and had seen Final Countdown.
Your first thought was "John knows Pearl Harbor and will want to stop the bombing."
The only thing you should have thought was "John likes guns and John has seen Final Countdown."
When I first saw your picture, my first thought was "He's definitely a stoner."
The only thing I should have thought was "Mr. Young has long hair and a beard."
We're all guilty of it.
(Doing Therapy)
MJ, perhaps you could verify this. I've been told that while the Bible talks extensively about forgiving other people, it does not say a single word about forgiving yourself. That's what my therapy is. Teaching myself to forgive myself. Perhaps that's why I feel so close to God? Just a thought.
(Doing Therapy)
Most people don't really need to forgive themselves. At least, that's not exactly what they have to do.
You really face something of a tension between what you think the rules are and what you want to do. It doesn't really matter whether those are the rules or not. What matters is that you don't think that what you're doing is wrong, but you think that someone else--God or society or your parents or the police or someone--thinks that what you're doing is wrong.
So you do what you want to do, and you think it's perfectly all right for you to do it, and that the people who say it's wrong have no right to tell you otherwise.
But it bothers you that other people think you're wrong.
There are two things that the Bible addresses to you.
The one is to say that God wants to forgive you, and indeed has extended forgiveness if you will accept it. That addresses that aspect that "someone" thinks what you're doing is wrong. Whether it was wrong or not, God is willing to forgive you. So you have forgiveness from "someone" who matters.
The other is to say that you need to repent. Repent does not mean that you need to feel sorry, or apologize, or even really that you have to follow the rules from now on. Rather, the Greek word means to change your thinking: you stop thinking that the rules are all wrong, you stop thinking that whatever you feel like doing is fine. Usually what you feel like doing is harmful to yourself and others. Ask anyone who has faced obesity--you feel like having more pie, and your attitude is that any consequences are worth the pleasure. Changing your thinking in that case recognizes that the extra dessert is part of a harmful pattern, and you don't want the consequences so you will avoid the pleasure.
In neither case are you talking about forgiving yourself. You didn't need to forgive yourself. You needed to recognize that someone who mattered forgives you, and you needed to change your own thinking about what the best choices are.
I hope this helps.
--M. J. Young
MJ, you like Thomas Jefferson, how about this?
"Some of my finest hours have been spent on my back veranda, smoking hemp, and observing as far as my eye can see."
Thomas Jefferson, 1781.
(Doing Therapy)
John--I like much of what Thomas Jefferson wrote. On the other hand, there are a lot of aspects of Thomas Jefferson I dislike:
- The man was a Deist, believing that God created the world and then let it run itself; he denied the deity of Jesus and also all the miraculous accounts of scripture.
- He plagiarized Thomas Locke with only minor modification in penning his most famous document: the inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of property were established English Enlightenment doctrines.
- He was a hypocrite, asserting that all men has the right of liberty while remaining a slave owner until the day of his death.
- During his presidential term he waged war against the Supreme Court, attempting to eviscerate it of all power and meaning.
- He held the entirely foolish belief that any elected legislative body of educated men could and would agree with each other concerning the best solution to any problem given enough time, and that they would never agree to pass a law that was contrary to the Constitution.
That's fine. He was an admirable man in many ways, and I respect his intellect and his level of education. He was also a fool in many ways, some of which I have mentioned, and one of which you have identified for me.
--M. J. Young
He was a hypocrite, asserting that all men has the right of liberty while remaining a slave owner until the day of his death.
YOU'RE THE HYPOCRITE!!!!! You claim to follow the teachings of the Bible, but yet declare one of God's own creations to be evil.
(Doing Therapy)
How can you claim to be MJ's friend, John? You harass him all day while he is at work, call him names, and have openly insulted his intelligence. What did he ever do to you but show you infinite @#%! patience?
What did he ever do to you but show you infinite @#%! patience?
Show hypocrisy and be too arrogant to realize it. In Genesis, God declares all of the seed-bearing plants of the earth to be good. Jesus Christ Himself declares all foods to be clean. MJ says marijuana is bad. Is it not both a seed-bearing plant and a source of nourishment? You cannot be both Christian and against marijuana use. That's hypocrisy.
By that logic you should be allowed to smoke hemlock, as it is a seed bearing plant.
I also don't buy the whole hemp as a source of nourishment, the body doesn't process a large percentage of the plant and bypasses it directly to waste. This is why to cook with it people have to put it in a butter solute.
You're just a belligerent child John who seems to only strive to lose the respect of all those who are patient on this forum.
You need to check your facts. The seeds of the hemp plant as as high in protein and fiber as any bean. People have been eating them for centuries.
As far as smoking hemlock, God must have had a reason for putting it here. I don't proclaim to know what that reason was, however.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
I also don't buy the whole hemp as a source of nourishment, the body doesn't process a large percentage of the plant and bypasses it directly to waste. This is why to cook with it people have to put it in a butter solute.
Would you consider a dandelion a source of nourishment? Of course not. However, you can make wine from the flower. (I got a book on wine making for Christmas.) Just because it may be difficult to derive the nourishment makes it no less nourishing. Besides, the nourishment of which I speak is mental nourishment.
(Doing Therapy)
First quote:
YOU'RE THE HYPOCRITE!!!!! You claim to follow the teachings of the Bible, but yet declare one of God's own creations to be evil.
Second quote:
...God must have had a reason for putting it here. I don't proclaim to know what that reason was, however.
Third quote:
Would you consider a dandelion a source of nourishment?To the third, actually yes. In addition to dandelion wine, dandelion salad is an excellent food and a good survival food. You have to be careful, though, because parts of it are poisonous sometimes.
To the second, that's my answer to the first.
To the first, I never said it was evil. I said it was a drug which tampers with your mental state, and that I would rather not imbibe anything which tampers with my mental state without the direction and supervision of a trained professional.
I probably also said that I thought it unwise for anyone else to do so.
And before anyone says I am a hypocrite, I will confess to imbibing small quantities of caffeine in coffee, soda, and chocolate, and once or twice a year forcing down a small glass of a sparkling wine, usually an Asti, as a celebratory toast. I also occasionally take over the counter analgesics on very rare occasions. These fall in a slightly different category, though: even though I am not under the direct supervision of a medical professional, medical professionals have approved limited use of these particular drugs by responsible adults who will use them judiciously.
--M. J. Young
To the first, I never said it was evil. I said it was a drug which tampers with your mental state, and that I would rather not imbibe anything which tampers with my mental state without the direction and supervision of a trained professional.
Having never tried it, how can you say what effects it has on your mental state? If anything, I find it greatly augments my mental state.
Augmentation IS tampering. And if you didn't make that connection I question your baseline mental state or the validity that its being augmented as opposed to hampered.
And where did I say that augmenting wasn't tampering? I said if anything, it augments my mental state, and that MJ, having never tried it, has no idea what effect it would have. I never once said that it didn't tamper with your mental state.
It's been used for the treatment of depression. MJ has depression. The effect it has on me is that it kicks the psychosis into overdrive. Psychosis kicked into overdrive. Guess what? That's an augmented mental state and the exact opposite of depression.
Geeze, I'm just trying to get him to try an all-natural solution to his depression which would probably work far better than all of the anti-depressants in the world. You can hardly get upset with me for trying.
(Doing Therapy)
Having never tried it, how can you say what effects it has on your mental state?
I can take the word of those who have researched it in a scientific way, not those who like the fox in Aesop's fable have already lost their tales and cannot be objective about it when they advise other foxes to remove their own.
But let me tell a different story.
There was a doctor, a rather prominent young physician, who was very interested in mental process and enhancing intelligence. He became aware of a new experimental drug that had interesting effects on mental state. It was being tested in the treatment of addiction to the dominant pain killer of the time, but some of the literature suggested it might have other uses. He tried it himself, and finding the results positive he gave some to his fiance so she could also enjoy the benefits.
The drug was cocaine. The doctor was Sigmund Freud, and he became addicted and had a very difficult time breaking free from the drug. It is questionable whether his fiance, later his wife, ever completely recovered from its effects on her.
The problem was not that Freud wasn't careful; he took every reasonable precaution in that situation. Nor was it that he did not research the drug--he knew everything that was then known about it. The problem was that the available information was incomplete. In hindsight, the risks outweighed the benefits. There are people who will suggest today that cocaine has benefits in terms of enhancing mental clarity, but most sober intelligent researchers will say that the risks outweigh the benefits.
And I have seen cocaine destroy the lives of some who could not resist the allure.
And some of those same sober intelligent researchers, such as those at the famed and progressive Mayo Clinic, have said that the risks outweigh the benefits in relation to marijuana use; and I have seen marijuana do serious damage to the lives of some who could not resist the allure.
And there are sober intelligent researchers who say much the same about alcohol, on a much lower level, and I have seen alcohol destroy lives as well. The risk/benefit analysis related to alcohol is a closer call in a lot of ways, but I avoid the drug almost entirely because I do not like its effects on my mental state, and because I don't like the taste either. (However, John 4 confided in me that he is persuaded no one actually likes the taste of alcohol, but instead we force ourselves to build a taste for it in order to gain the effects. I take John's word for it, for he was a heavy drinker for decades who recently quit after the death of his wife from alcohol-related illness.)
So I am not going to make Freud's mistake and think I know well enough to use something that is, by the best medical judgment, not worth the risk.
And I'm going once more politely to ask you not to promote such use on this forum.
Thank you.
--M. J. Young
And I'm going once more politely to ask you not to promote such use on this forum.
Then why did you start a thread specifically for discussing the topic of medical marijuana use? Can't exactly ask me, politely or otherwise, not to talk about it in a thread specifically meant for that exact topic.......
(However, John 4 confided in me that he is persuaded no one actually likes the taste of alcohol, but instead we force ourselves to build a taste for it in order to gain the effects. I take John's word for it, for he was a heavy drinker for decades who recently quit after the death of his wife from alcohol-related illness.)
I disagree. I've tasted quite a few good-tasting alcohols. My sister got me a book on wine making for Christmas. (Yes, THAT sister) That's just me though.
I have seen marijuana do serious damage to the lives of some who could not resist the allure.
I bet it was all legal hassles, right? Wouldn't be a problem if it was legal. Consider that it was pharmaceutical companies and oil manufacturers that lobbied to make it illegal. That's right. It's illegal BECAUSE it's so useful. How much money do they stand to lose?
Someone, I think it was JTM, said that if THC had any medical value, no one would grow the plant, because it would be available in pill form. (Or something like that) Beta Carotene is available in pill form, but people still grow and eat carrots.
(Doing Therapy)