Music Wars Beta

Okay, the sandbox for Music Wars Beta is officially open. I'm going to start this off with a repost of my character sketches, second post will probably be A1Nut's bias breakdown, and some other useful stuff in the ones after that till we're all on the same wavelength.

--------------------------------
Hmm... I'm bored, so here's a couple of character background sketches while I'm too tired to sleep.

1: Death Metal -
Allysa "Acid" Raynes was born in Camden, New Jersey. A city solidly in the hands of the Rappers and a murder hive that rivals even Detroit itself, it was no place for a girl to be raised. Her family was poor, scratching out a living running drugs inland from the Shore, since they had the fortune to own an old military truck. Some people said her grandfather had stolen it during the War, but sixty years later the beast still ran, and nobody really cared where it came from. Her father spent most of his earnings just buying bullets.
He was captured by a wandering Preacher, who executed him on the street while his family watched. Allysa was twelve years old. The next day her father had scheduled a run to the Shore. She fired up the Beast, prepared to make the run herself. Her mother objected, but Allysa wouldn't hear of it. Instead her mother manned the gunnery pod - formerly Allysa's post - and the girls made the run together.
Allysa discovered she had the Spark when she was sixteen. After four years of leading her family, she had gathered a small following, most of them older than herself, but a scrabbling of kids, too. When she discovered her speeches had real magic in them, she realized it meant she would have to join one of the Factions. None of them would stand for a Wilder, and certainly not in a Rapper haven like Camden.
But Allysa had no talent for rap. Her speeches were too epic, her words too free of profanity. She could incite people to brutal acts of fanaticism, and inspired almost unquestioning loyalty. She was just the sort of person Father Destien Kincaide was looking for. Just the sort of person Death Metal needed. With a little training, she could learn to harness their breed of power. The Abyss already loved her, and she already clung to no particular morality.
She searched her soul. She spoke with her mother, and her other trusted advisors. Ultimately, left with no other options, she accepted. She donned the black leather robe of a Death Metal Minister and swore herself to apprenticeship under Father Kincaide. In time, she did learn to call upon the unholy fury of Death Metal, to conduct the dread rituals that were a purposeful mockery of the Masses clung to by P&W. Her penchant for violence made her fit right in in Camden, and she rarely had a problem hiding her cell in the murder capital of the east coast.
Now seventeen, she is nearly done with her Apprenticeship, ready to accept the title of Mother. She does not drive the Beast any more, having handed off the fund-raising operations of her cell to a man named Spider, whom she has in her magical thrall. Instead she has trained herself as a sniper, and takes a particular pleasure in assassinating other Singers.

2: Country -
There are few things that lift a man's spirits more than his son following in his footsteps. That was the feeling Garth Waylon Duff's father had the day he was born. The boy - second of three children in the family - was practically born with a banjo in his hands, and took to hard work like nobody's business. He could string a banjo by the time he was five, and play it at the Fair before he was seven.
He never took much to cars and trucks. He could drive okay, but he didn't know a wrench from a monkey under the hood. Oh well. With fingers and a voice like his, he hardly needed to. Whenever the ravages of the age passed through his home town of Murfreesborough, KY, he rode around in the back of an old pickup truck, plucking his banjo and singin' the healing into wounded men. In between fights, he'd lead the workin' songs while he plowed the land, burned up debris, or sat next to the fire tappin' out bullets in little hand-held moulds.
But he was always most famous for his music. He had the Shine in 'im, just like his daddy, and a heart o' gold for it to shine from. G-W's a family man now, 25 years old, married to his teen sweetie Gracie-Ann, with two kids and a third on the way, and it looks like his li'l girl is lookin' to take after him, the way she's always patchin' up her little brother and her cousins. O' course, the guys'll never stop ribbin' him, what with Gracie-Ann bein' a better shot with a rifle 'n him, but he's got the Shinin', and there ain't nothin' funny about that.

3: Classical -
Chaya - just Chaya, thank you - was born to a life of privilege in Upper Manhattan. Her grandfather had been a weapons-maker, and had turned a small fortune during the War. Her mother was a trained violinist, and when the Classicists established their stations, she enlisted at once, and rose through their ranks at a modest but appreciable pace. Chaya herself was born when her mother was at the height of her talent. Some say the woman played her violin even after her labor pains began. This apocryphal performance was to be her last concert, for she died giving birth to her only child.
Chaya carried with her the guilt of her mother's death all her life. She is haunted by it, and it reflects in the mellow, dirgelike quality of her playing. She carries still her mother's violin, which she has restrung innumerable times, refinished once a year since she was 13, and completely rebuilt only once. Those closest to her whisper in secret that the varnish of the violin includes an infusion of her sainted mother's blood.
Now a woman of thirty, she is in full command of her family's fortune. She has refused to marry and has birthed no children. Her few friends regret that her Talent will not be passed on. She travels alone in a stylish but somewhat dated ground-car from her home to the Station every other night, to play her mournful notes over the airwaves. Every piece she plays is an original composition of hers, by her own insistance. Every year on her birthday, she plays from sunset until dawn, breaking only to have healing notes sung to her bleeding fingers by a trusted friend - it is a talent she never mastered.
Her ghostly violin-playing cannot be called inspiring. It is neither transporting nor uplifting, but those who hear it are filled with a kind of fatalistic resolve. They have been known to linger in battle against overwhelming odds, calm even in the face of death. Her Listeners have been known to work tirelessly through the night of her birthday, even at complicated or exhausting tasks, only to collapse from exhaustion the moment she stops playing.

JohnA1Nut's Bias breakdown

I thought it more like:

Death Metal: Magic

Country: Magic / guns

Rap: Psionic / guns

Praise & Worship: Magic / Body

60s Rock: Hippie magic, mother earth magic, "Flower Power" that kind of thing.

Jazz: Technology / Psionic

One-Hit Wonders: A little of everything.

Extreme: Technology / Body

Classical: Psionic / some technology

I think that's more what I had in mind.

And here's John O'Sevens' bias breakdown, just because I don't think we've really settled this yet:

Death Metal: Magic

Country: Magic / Technology

Rap: Psionic

Praise & Worship: Magic / Body

60s Rock: Body / Technology (which works if they're all about the hallucinogenic drugs, rather than hallucinogenic magic)

Jazz: Technology / Psionic

One-Hit Wonders: A little of everything. (Do these guys even HAVE turf?)

Extreme: Technology / Body

Classical: Psionic

Edit: I read this post over again (I admit I only skimmed it before), and now I realize that it's almost exactly identical to A1Nut's. Oops.

And here's my proposed breakdown, just so we all have something to haggle over:

Magic: everyone uses magic. There are certain skills that are universal - most of them are M1@X Blessings of one kind or another. All your Bonus Morale skills, your spells that boost performance of other skills, your magic that penalizes the Enemy, all of it falls into M1@ Blessings. Everyone has this.

Advanced Magic:

Mundane Tech (guns etc.):

Strange Tech: [this is mostly for Techno, who we've been ignoring, but maybe a little for Extreme . . .?]

Low-Key Psionics:

In-Your-Face Psionics:

Mundane (Human-possible) Bod:

Freaky (Super- or non-human) Bod:

___
Ack. It turns out that I don't have as much time to make this post as I thought I did, so I'm going to leave all that blank for now and repost with actual content when I get the chance (a few hours?). For now, y'all can mull over my skill divisions; I think they're more useful than just "guns/magic/psi/bod." I also think it's more useful to approach the question from this direction - that is, asking "which groups have these skills," not "what skills do these various groups have."

Various other design notes:

1: This is NOT a post-apocalyptic setting.
2: All Biases are fairly substantial here - Magic, Technology, Psionics, and Body are all powerfully represented.
3: This world considers Alpha the Future of itself.
4: We are NOT going for a particularly gritty feeling here, but more of a cyberpunk (audiopunk?) atmosphere.
5: Cars and trucks and such still exist, and gas is as plentiful (or not) as referees whim. Same goes with ammo if your faction bothers with guns.
6: I am NOT borrowing the specific abilities from Tadeusz's post on Page 1 of the old thread, as those refer to the Alpha world and I do not want to steal too much of their material.
7: I AM borrowing some of the flavor-text from that post, since there would be some continuity.

Faction-Specific Notes
I: Death Metal
1: Magic Bias.
2: Their magic causes lingering pain. (Perhaps necromancy?)
3: Pseudo-religious hierarchy.
4: No capital city, exists as a series of disconnected cells, very loose national organization.
5: Rival of Praise + Worship.
6: Supported mostly by crime, particularly thievery and extortion.

II: Country
1: Magic Bias, but very little actual magic.
2: Utilitarian magic of the working-class.
3: Spread out through all the other factions, considered mostly harmless.
4: Capital is in Nashville, TN.
5: Rivals of Rap.
6: Primary income is from their manual labor.

III: Rap
1: Psionic and Technology bias.
2: Their psionic music causes confusion and pain.
3: Mostly work as mercenaries, as their styles blend with the other factions.
4: Supported by drug-running and crime.
5: Prefer to use cars and guns to fight, as their magic cannot be used to kill, only to confuse.
6: Based in Detroit.
7: Rivals of Country.

IV: Praise and Worship
1: Magic bias, very low technology.
2: Most structured of the factions, church/military hierarchy.
3: Capable of channelling magic through weapons.
4: Only faction capable of using their blessed rifles.
5: Most populous faction.
6: Primarily of Christian background, but non-denominational.
7: Dual Capitals in Atlanta and Salt-Lake City, alternating each year on Saint Crispin's Day, October 25th.
8: Supported entirely by the tithes of their Listeners.
9: Rivals of Death Metal.

V: 60's Rock
1: Leftover Hippies with a Psionic bias and a Magic bias. (Since they focus mostly on mood alterations and mind-effects, their bias is divided between Magic for their Druid-like tendencies, and Psionics for the rest.)
2: Bonuses to their magic and defenses if they are high.
3: Bonuses to their magic when in a natural environment.
4: Capital in Memphis, the Divided City.
5: Supported mostly by begging.
6: Psychadelic music causes confusion, calms emotions. Very hard to resist if the Listener is high at the time.

VI: Jazz
1: Psionic bias.
2: Most transportive quality - they are the most powerful of the factions at literally transporting things.
3: Capital in Memphis, the Divided City. They claim Beale Street as sovereign.
4: Supported mostly by revenue from live performances.
5: Rivals of Classical and Rap.

VII: One-Hit Wonders
1: Psionic bias.
2: Able to copy the signature abilities of other factions, but get only half the actual bonuses.
3: Capital is in Los Angeles.
4: Supported by whatever they can get their hands on. Other than Country they are the most likely to have "day jobs."
5: Work with / are being taken advantage of by Praise and Worship, trying to promote a peaceful unification.
6: The only faction with no Rivals, they allow anyone to move freely through their turf who displays no hostile intent.

VIII: Extreme
1: Technology bias
2: Known for their garish and rarely hidden cybernetics and excessive physical conditioning.
3: Vail, Colorado is both their capital and their battle cry.
4: Rivals of 60's Rock.
5: Use the title "Saint" for those people whose extremism they respect.

IX: Classical
1: Primarily Psionic bias.
2: Capital is in New York.
3: Funded by donations from their Listeners.
4: They have the best recorded music, keeping the largest percentage of their bonuses when not played live.

Wodium,

I agree that pretty much everyone uses magic for the low-level blessings and "bardic music effects," if you'll pardon the borrowed term. However, all of the signature abilities of the different factions should represent their individual biases. Those who use ONLY magic (Death Metal and P&W, for instance) should have more powerful magic than those who divide their focus.

And yeah, A1Nut's bias breakdown is almost the same as mine, but mine came first, he is the original creator of this setting, and his serves as a correction to mine, so his is the one we ought to try to stick to.

I'm going on break in about five minutes. In 20 when I come back I may start work on some more character sketches.

What number are my character sketches up to now? 4? Okay good...

4: Praise and Worship -
Reverend Colonel Z. Montrose hates to be called by name. Call him simply "Hunter," and he will frown, and nod. A taciturn man in his early 50s, he has every reason to have a gruff disposition.
In his childhood, he was a Prince of Death Metal. Death Metal has the fewest born members of any Faction, so when one of their Dread Reverends and his mate bore a son (Zeitsev of the Venom Torrent Pride), they blessed him with a week of nights in celebration of the Abyss. For sixteen years he was raised as a sort of god-prince among men, trained in the ways of music and sorcery. From puberty into adulthood he never slept alone when he did not choose to, and wanted for nothing. Between his 15th and 18th years, he sired six children, all of them born to Death Metal, and all of them as beloved by the Abyss as their father.
When the 402nd Choir - Saint Martin's Fury - descended upon his Cell (located in Redmond, Washington), he and his five closest companions stayed behind to hold them off while the others escaped. The Abyss was with them all, and the streets of Redmond rang with the shrieking of the martyrs. Ultimately it was in vain. His five companions were slain, and Prince Zeitsev was captured.
During the time of his arrest, he spent time in the company of the Reverend Colonel who captured him. The man, Hector Montoya, was elderly and wanted his last act to be the redemption of this dread prince. Eventually, it worked. Sort of. The Prince gave up his title and agreed to work his magic for P&W, but though his magic is strong, his faith is weak, based more on the fact that P&W was able to defeat him and prove themselves the stronger than out of any genuine love for them.
He is called Hunter because of the sad duty assigned to him by the Lord Pontifect. Lord Pontifect George Martin XIX knew very well that Prince Zeitsev might be collared, but he could never really be tamed, so he assigned him a duty that would make him suffer while he served - a penance none but the Hunter could serve.
In the years of Hunter's service to P&W, his six children had grown up, each of them leading a powerful DM cell. Those cells, and their leaders, were to be his personal targets for the rest of his natural life...
(I am not pretending that I know how skills actually work, but a few things he ought to be able to do...)
Espionage
Abyss Magic
P&W Magic (does not include Blessed Bolts or Smite Unbeliever)
Wield Mare's-Leg Pistol
Quick Draw
Drive Motorcycle
Play the Electric Guitar

5: Rap
Benjamin Bills - prisoner number 46J927 - celebrates the day of his first arrest. To him, that was the day of his rebirth. Before that, he had been a street kid, trying to make it to school every day, trying to make it home without getting beaten up on the way, trying not to get beaten by his drunken father when he got there, trying to make scratch some pay for himself running drugs for the local mercenaries... and usually failing at all of the above. And to make matters worse, he was the youngest of 12 kids in his family, and the only one with no rhythm.
Then he had a run-in with Officer Westley Locke. Officer Locke had lost a sister to drug overdose, and took the continued existence of drug runners personally. So it wasn't long into their encounter before "escalation of force" translated to "busting your ass with a collapsable baton." The trial was quick. Benny woke up in jail.
Benny learned hard in prison. He learned to defend himself from his fellow inmates, the hard way. He learned to improvise weapons. That bit he learned the easy way, after he took a prison shiv off of another inmate during a fight and learned how to copy it.
When he found that same guy trying to extort drugs from some Asian gangers, he quite publicly introduced him to the skills he'd learned. It earned him enough credit that one of the Asian gangers was willing to teach him Silat, a style of martial arts that incorporated both unarmed and knife techniques. Because the style favors speed and precision over strength, Benny's slight frame and lack of brute muscles did not prevent him from excelling at it.
It was in combat that he found his rhythm. In the trancelike give-and-take of a balanced fight, he found the pulsing-drums of his own inner beat. Soon he was able to put poetry to that beat, and found that by chanting in time with the rhythm of his combat he was able to confuse his opponent and force openings in his defences, which his lightning-quick strikes could then exploit.
During a prison riot in his tenth year of incarceration, he managed to escape, along with five other men. Though they were all bigger than he was, and all but one had better rhythm, none of them had learned poetry, and their bland, profane raps inspired little morale and less pain, so with his balance of fighting ability and magic, he was able to lead them. And lead them he did. Out of the burning prison and into the shadows. It was a simple matter to steal clothes, and then they were just... gone.
They formed their own small company, hiring themselves out to the nearest faction they could find, who happened to be Extremes. The Extremes didn't care at all about the Rappers' criminal past, and in fact enjoyed it immensely.
Three years later, Benny - now a man of 28 - is still in their employ. He has added Krav Maga and Escrima to his background in Silat, and spends many an off hour lifting weights. When he's not composing, or counting his money.
Benny is an unusual Rapper in that he is not ostentatious. Though many of the mind-searing spells of Rap work better when channeled through eye-searing amounts of gold and platinum, he wears relatively little - just enough to make his own magic effective, without appearing unnecessarily gaudy (though there are those who argue that gaudy rappers are able to pull more enhancement from their bling specifically because it is gaudy.)

Things he ought to be able to do:
Wield a Knife as a Martial Arts Weapon
Fight in Silat, Krav Maga, and Escrima styles
Ambidexterity (dual-wielding sticks or knives)
Apply poison to a knife
Writing: Poetry
Perform: Rap
Appraise Jewelry
Negotiate Contracts / Run a Mercenary Company
Mediate Disputes
Calculate a Shares-based Payroll

Would you characterize Silat, and Eskrima, and Krav Maga as....

Slow or Fast?
Aggressive or Defensive?
Weapon Averse, Weapon Utilizing, or Weapon Dependent?

Please answer for each of the three arts listed.

NOTE: I'm not sure how many martial arts have been created. I know of Modern Crusader Swordsman, and Psi-Fu, and Kyler's Gazuntite, and the Starsongian based Mark-Ryu aka Starsong Customized Martial Arts. I'm in the process of creating Florentine fencing. Obviously, I think Multiverser needs a lot more, and so building these three would be a step forward.

Regarding your design notes:

I'm in full agreement concerning 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7. I'm a little confused over 1 and 3.

First, number three. I thought we agreed that Alpha and Beta shared a history up to the point of Alpha's nuclear mini-war, and that they diverged from there. That would mean that neither world is the future of either one.

For number one, I'm just confused. If society before Alpha's nuke war was the same as our society today, and the Beta world shares a history with Alpha up to that point, how is it that society in the Beta scenario gets to be so different from real-life modern-day Earth without some sort of cataclysmic shake-up?

I agree that we're not going for gritty at all, that we want wild and fantastic. I just don't see how post-apoc conflicts with that.

Are the ideas I wrote out here and here acceptable? If so, I can build on them; if not, why not, and what do we need instead?

Also, from your description of Benny, it seems like Rappers use psionics primarily for direct psionic combat - that is, mind-to-mind assaults. They may have other abilities also, like certain psychometabolic disciplines, but mainly they use psionics to mentally attack their foes. Does that sound like what you envisioned? John A1nut, is that more or less what you were thinking, too?

(By the way, in my unfinished post above, this would fall under "low-key" psionics; the psionics I'm picturing for Classical, by contrast, are much more "in your face.")

Rap's psionic power is that the rap beats get inside your head, causes temporary confusion, even low grade psychotic states (which I can describe from personal experience) If they choose to shoot you at that point, that's their prerogative.

I don't remember exactly what I envisioned for Classical psionics, I'll have to go back and reread a lot of that.

Just a personal aside. I pitched this world to MJ some years ago (Although at the time it was just Rap and Country) he kind of shot it down. I'm glad to see it's gotten such a "cult following" here.

Wodium - I stand corrected on both 1 and 3. That's what I get for not going through all 4 pages of the old thread quite as carefully as I ought.

Silat is Fast, Aggressive, and Weapon Utilizing.
Escrima is Fast, Aggressive, and Weapon Dependant.
Krav Maga is Fast, Defensive, and Weapon Utilizing.

It seems like we three are in agreement regarding Rap's version of psionics being low-key and used mostly for direct (but non-lethal) mental attack.
I, too, envision Classical as having a much more in-your-face version of psionics, so if A1Nut agrees, we have consensus.

This seems like a fun world. Maybe when I get myself spectacularly killed (I imagine I'll piss someone off and wind up walking the plank sooner or later) I can have a run through here... and see how many days I make it before my completely lack of any musical talent gets me sacrificed to someone or other's gods.

Classical had high psionics, and moderate technology. I posted about their weapons and cars on the other thread. But yeah, Classical has high psi.

A1nut, if you would be so kind as to repost here the version of their weapons and cars you mean? I don't want to pick the wrong post and accidentally jack something from Alpha again.

Wodium, your first link doesn't act like a link to me. Would you be so generous as to repost it? The "inevitable truths" from the second post you linked to certainly do hold water, if perhaps you'd like to repost them into this thread for ease of reference?

And just as an aside, yeah Wodium you are one of the "big kids" I was talking about earlier, but I wasn't saying that in a mean way, I was just making a sort of joke about how there are people like you and MJ around who have been doing this stuff for like a thousand years and know every trick, and then there's me and A1nut who must seem like really precocious but still inexperienced kids by comparison - hence the metaphor of the "kids' table."

Cars, vehicles, and such.

Classical. Sleepers. 7 series BMWs with 12 cylinder manual transmissions. Fast, agile, but with style. See also opening scene of The Transporter.

Extreme. GTOs, Camaros, old muscle cars. Loud, fast and flashy. Motorbikes. Dirt bikes. Fully loaded SUVs

Rap. BLING!!!!!!!!!!

P&W Horses, camels, their technology is kind of low.

60s Rock. Buses, VWs all painted to look like a bad acid trip.

Jazz, Model T, model A Fords. 1930s cars.

Death Metal. Hearses.

Country. Horse drawn carriages, carts, etc. Pickup trucks, station wagons, RVs. A few really hopped up 4X4 trucks. Country builds and maintains cars for most of the other groups. Except Rap, Death Metal, and P&W (No cars after all)

Death Metal. That would be "Slow painful agony" hurt the enemy spells. Immediate medical treatment can sometimes save the person, but not always.

Jazz, transporter spells. That music makes me feel "Transported" Since Jazz has some guns, their tactic is to "Transport" into the room and open fire with submachine guns.

Praise and Worship. Godly spells. Raise people back from the dead, blood is a weapon, fire from Heaven, lighting storms, perhaps limited control of the weather as a whole? What God does in the Bible.

Extreme very little if any magic. Extreme is terroristic, existing in small cells all over the world. Bombings, assassinations, that kind of thing. They are harder to kill because of the cell network. Most but not all of them have some form of external bionic implants. This gives them superhuman abilities. Depending on the person, and their resources determines what kind. (Some would prefer running ability, some would prefer upper body, some might only have one bionic arm, that kind of thing.) External, exoskeletal implants. Removable, and visible. Kind of a status symbol also.

Classical: Often hires Extreme as muscle for hire. Pays in cars, bionic implants and explosives. Psionic ability to shut down a person's mind, and perhaps take control of their body for a short time. Using it against some of the leaders of Extreme without their knowledge. Willpower checks required every so often to see if it is broken. The target won't always know what happened, sometimes will. Another check. Classical are skilled with cane swords, and with fencing rapiers. Their guns are small pistols. Nothing larger than a 9mm for an automatic. 22, 32, and 38 revolvers as well. Even the occasional black powder gun. Their "transporter" drivers. (See also opening scene of The Transporter. I can't explain it any better than that.)

Country, Rap, very little if any magic.

Since Country and Rap are going at it so hard, they mostly leave everyone else alone, and everyone else mostly leaves them alone (for now).

Battles would be "skirmishes" Gang warfare kind of thing. One on one, or small groups against small groups, that kind of thing. They have divided the territory into "turf" with it being controlled. Some "normals" do live in these areas. Some are being converted, some are being used as spies, and some are blissfully unaware of it. The battles are the kind of thing you would read about in "National Enquirer and The Weekly World News." Believed by some, but not most.

Is this making any sense to anyone besides me?

O'Sevens -

Ack, sorry about the link. It's working in the old post now, and here it is again. It's the giant post telling the story of the end of the world as we knew it and the beginning of the world as we want it.

Don't worry, I understood the kids metaphor; I just wasn't sure if I counted, and in any case I wanted to explain that I hadn't abandoned you. It just looked that way because I got busy.

Speaking of which, I've got a list of about seven or eight more threads I need to either start or respond to; if I bug off for a few days and post places other than this thread, that's what's happening, and I'll be back here sometime, so don't worry.

A1nut -

Is this making any sense to anyone besides me?

Yeah, it is. You're envisioning more commonplace technology than I was, which is fine. Let me see if I've got you right.

Most folks' magic is arcane (that is, not holy, not from a particular divine source), with two exceptions: Death Metal and P&W.

Death Metal is heavily into necromancy - spells that cause or manipulate pain or death directly. I imagine they also have spells in a few other corruptive or destructive areas - magic that poisons or corrupts food or equipment, curses on their enemies; perhaps they can call up darkness, or storms and foul weather; perhaps contact foul spirits who tell them their enemies' secrets. Their magic can inspire fear, force a weak-willed man to obey; powerful Death Metalists can summon demons, kill or cripple their enemies directly, or even raise fallen corpses as zombie minions.

Death Metal generally doesn't bother much with guns. There aren't very many of them, and you don't see them often - but you the reason you don't see them is because they're too busy practicing their music and black magic in secret, and every one of the few of them that there are is a dangerous individual. (Some are more dangerous than others, of course.)

Yes/no?

If necromancy is the word for it, then yes.

What kind of technology did YOU envision Scott? I'm always open to new ideas. The problem that I kind of have is that even in my fantasies, things have to be somewhat realistic. I'm not very good at the "Completely utterly out of this world" kind of fantasy.

Forgot to mention - much of Death Metal magic is anarch holy magic. (Just because it's evil doesn't mean it isn't holy, "holy" in this sense meaning "granted by a supernatural entity.")

Suggestion: Most (but maybe not all) Death Metal groups believe that the real cause of the Big Change (apocalypse, Day the Earth Stood Still, whatever, you know what I mean) was the failed summoning of the Wretched God from THE DARK BEYOND. High-up Death Metal cultists believe that the return of the Wretched God is inevitable; the Great Beast Destroyer will return. It's just a matter of when and who gets eaten first. Death Metal folks reason thusly:

1) It's best to get it over with,
2) If you're going to get eaten anyway, it's best to get eaten first so you don't have to watch,
3) Whoever works to help The Unspeakable One back into this world will probably get eaten first - either because the Wretched God rewards his servants or just because they'll be closest, It doesn't really matter.

And that's why no one likes Death Metal.

Sounds pretty cool Scott. What kind of technology did you envision for this?

Looking back, I should probably have phrased this better:

You're envisioning more commonplace technology than I was, which is fine.

I didn't mean that the technology you were picturing was more commonplace than the technology I was picturing; I meant that you were picturing more of it - more of it around, more of it in use, a bigger part of people's lives.

Yeah, that's kind of why I wanted to avoid a holocaust of any kind. The one you present sounds reasonable. I can go along with something like that. I wanted technology. I wanted an ample supply of gasoline and electricity. That's why I was so adamant about keeping a holocaust out.

Should I copy everything I had on the other thread to this one? Let me know.

John O'Sevens, would it do too much damage to your conception of Benjamin Bills to convert his Martial Arts to Tae Kwon Do, Okinawan Kabudo, and Brawling? Y'see, we already have those written up, and that means less work....

You can tab on the hot tag, 'martial arts' to see 'Types of Martial Arts' for the first two, and 'Brawling' something or other for the brawling. And if you want, you can follow Wodium's link in 'Type of....' to MJ's martial arts website, and choose from about twenty styles.

Tadeusz - Not at all, go right ahead.

Wodium - I definitely agree with you that only P&W and DM are devoted to the use of divine magic, everyone else's magics are arcane. Country may be divine, but their magic is kinda shabby so nobody really cares.
And yes, I'm envisioning Death Metal as necromancer/illusionists with less guns than magic, although not so much of the focus on the great-beast-destroyer. I'd like it if they could come off more like Clan Lasombra from Vampire: the Masquerade, and less like the Cult of Cthulhu. Not that I have anything against the Cult of Cthulhu, it's not just how I'm envisioning these particular guys. In the end I suppose it's A1nut's call - his world.
And thanks for the relink, too.

A1Nut - I agree with you on the ample supplies of gas and a generally current prevalence of technology.

What if we increased the prevalence of magic and other things? If magic and psionics have become a real force in the world, wouldn't there be practical (read: commercial) applications of them? We haven't dealt with the idea that somebody, somewhere, would be trying to make money off of this...

Black-Handed Brawling could perhaps replace Krav Maga: though it was designed for a hulking brute of a man, it could be interesting in the hands of a quick, precise type. Fair warning, it's intended as a savage and brutal fighting style.

As for the others, I dunno. Tae Kwon Do is weapon-adverse, and Benny's styles were conceived as weapon-dependent or -utilizing; and Okinawan Kabudo is slow and defensive, where all of Benny's are the reverse. I don't think we have a knife-fighting style on record, and it might be useful to write up Eskrima just to have one.

O'Sevens, if you'll tell me more about Eskrima - what it does, how it's supposed to work, what weapons are traditional - I'll see if I can start putting mechanics on it. Maybe Tad's Types of Martial Arts thread would be a good place to hash it out?

Of course, if you're not particular about the arts and the substitutions Eric suggested are fine, there's no need to go to the trouble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskrima
The Wikipedia article on it is pretty good. You can also look up on the History Channel - their show "Human Weapon" featured it in one episode.

Krav Maga is the official martial arts discipline of the Israeli Special Forces. It IS meant to be brutal and ruthless.

I would like it if Benny stuck to fast, weapon-utilizing or -dependant styles. He's a thug at heart, so soft styles really don't suit him at all.

I'll go have a look at that MA thread.

6: Extreme
Hugh Maxwell Terrick earned the nickname "Huge Mack Truck" when he was a kid. His father was no athlete, but that was the tack he took, learning to run - and run into things - practically as soon as he could walk. He did poorly in school, but took to the athletic fields like he was born to it.
Football. Lacrosse. Rugby. Boxing. Wrestling. Anything that gave him an excuse to use his body as a blunt instrument, the Huge Mack Truck was all over. It was enough to get him under the skirts of many a cheerleader, which would have been the ultimate prize for a boy his age, with his skills, but he chose never to take it.
Instead he dated a rocker girl, Elizabeth Larkin-Fitzgerald. She was the leader of a band called the Elves, whose extreme rock incorporated Celtic and Norse traditional instruments, but was played in Extreme style - very fast tempos, and lyrics extolling the glory of a fast, short life followed by a brilliant, violent death.
Elizabeth is his inspiration, his heart and soul. When they left high school, the pair of them moved to Vail, Colorado, so that she could be closer to the heart of her music. The Elves followed the next year, and Elly continues to play.
The Truck is now making money bare-knuckle fighting for money in some of Vail's most hardcore Extreme clubs, and as long as the music of the Elves rips the club in half during a fight, he remains undefeated. He and Elly are now 20 and 19 and expecting their first child.
Elly wishes he would give up the boxing after the child is born, but he's a rising star and has a chance at going professional. Especially after his last fight. Their bills were all caught up and he won a major windfall, so he was able to spend his winnings on his first cybernetic upgrade - an adrenaline pump, to give him an extra surge when he needs it.

Things he ought to be able to do:
Box Like a Champion
Play Football, Rugby, and Lacrosse (don't ask what position - I don't know them)
Climb Damn Near Anything
Fix a Car
Maintain a highschool-level education

His Adrenaline Pump gives him a boost to his strength, endurance, and stamina and cancels out any penalties he might incur due to being injured. However, it lasts only a short time - between six and ten rounds of combat, he has no way of knowing when he engages it - and when it wears off, the subsequent crash is usually enough to render him instantly unconcious.

Currently the Vail Amateur Boxing Association has no rules against cybernetic enhancements, enchantments, psionic conditioning, or steroid use, but the more artificially enhanced a fighter is, the more dangerous the opponents he will be put against.

johnosevens (spelled correctly this time) I like your ideas. That fighter sounds like someone I'd like to have.

As far as what kind of magic, I don't know enough about magic in games to know what to say one way or the other. How about you guys agree on it, and tell me exactly what it is, and what it does, and I'll see what I think. Sound good?

"Elly and the Elves," I like it.

Regarding Death Metal - I'm not familiar with the various Clans of V:tM, although I suppose Wikipedia could catch me up. In any case, different sects can have different focuses, can they not?

After a quick skim of the Wikipedia entry, the Lasombra seem just a smidgen more subtle than I was picturing, given the music - but I think there's room for both of our visions.

(If you don't agree about that, please argue with me.)

On Escrima: this looks like a fast-aggressive weapon-dependent, RF 2 (doubles attacks in the round), with all style bonuses going toward attack success (+10 attack sit-mod, +10 damage mod, like Ho Chi Min). Training in bo stick and knife is included, and the special maneuvers focus on disarming and anti-attack techniques. Sound good? I can whip up a list of particular maneuvers for Benny later, when/if we give these folks semi-detailed statistics.

Wodium - On Eskrima: Yes, all of that sounds fine, except isn't the bo stick a long, quarterstaff-like thing? Eskrima is normally done with small sticks, like batons. The special maneuvers aren't so much about disarming as they are about avoiding being blocked - more anti-defense than anti-attack. Special maneuvers can be at your leisure.

On Death Metal: I like the idea of Death Metal coming across as... perhaps not subtle, so much as disciplined. They ought to be radiating a palpable aura of run-for-your-lives evil, but on a personal level they could be polite, calm... until they decide that your continued existence is an affront to the Abyss. That's when you run for your lives.
Actually... I think if I were playing a Death Metal-ist, I would play him exactly as if I were playing a Lasombra. Just my two bits, your mileage may vary.

A1Nut - We were just haggling over the flavor of magic, really. Arcane magic is somewhat like alchemy, you're troutslapping the laws of reality personally. Holy magic is somewhat like witchcraft or prayer, you're calling on a deity to troutslap reality for you. Arcanists tend to be a bit more aloof and arrogant (think Raistlin Majere, Elminster, or Saruman) because they understand the primal formulae of the universe, while Clerists tend to be a bit more humble and self-effacing (think Qui-Gon Jinn) because they know what they're dealing with is bigger than themselves.

Alternatively, arcane practitioners tend to be more humble because they know their power is limited by their own ability, while users of divine magic are more self-righteous and arrogant because they know they're calling on a power much greater than you are.

On the bo stick - yeah, that's what I thought too, but I've been seeing "bo stick" used around here to mean a short baton-like weapon, similar to what I tend to think of as a jo stick. We're both talking about the same weapon.

On Death Metal: Disciplined is fine, secretive is fine, but that doesn't mean they have to like it, and it doesn't mean all of them are that way. It's also possible that everyone knows that so-and-so is into Death Metal and that he's a nasty character, but that no one really knows how nasty except his own faction; secrecy and discipline are relative, like?

I dunno. This might vary by region due to local social tolerances and the varying belief systems of geographically or demographically isolated sects. We are still talking about a world with very few clear political borders left, with the predominant social structure being the self-ruled territorial Faction, right? Our visions of this world are probably diverging.

Wodium - I do think we're still talking about a world where the Faction is the dominant political structure, so your description in your second-last paragraph is perfectly fine and reasonable to me.

Cool. I was getting uncertain because I was the odd man out on how many cars were in use, availability of gas, and like that.

Although, (apologies for revisiting this topic but) why would that stuff be as common as it was before? In one sense, it doesn't really matter if there's a gas shortage - Pastor Rick's church van runs on faith, the Market Street String Quartet can turn sea water into gasoline by playing a movement or two and thinking real hard, and Benny only needs to keep his battery charged; as long as the radio's playing and keeping the beat, he can keep the car rolling on his own, because it's his car, and no car with him in it is ever empty.

I imagine it's one of those things that we really don't /need/ a canon answer to. After all, if the Referee needs your car to be out of gas, or blow a tire, or explode into a fireball the likes of which mankind has never before beheld, for reasons of plot... then your car will be out of gas, or blow a tire, or explode into a fireball, whether the Elves are on the 8-track or not.

True. But having an answer - even a vague answer - helps keep the scenario consistent with itself.

This works hand in hand with something you said earlier:

What if we increased the prevalence of magic and other things? If magic and psionics have become a real force in the world, wouldn't there be practical (read: commercial) applications of them? We haven't dealt with the idea that somebody, somewhere, would be trying to make money off of this...

Exactly, only I don't think that takes it quite far enough. Are we even sure we're still using money? Stuff like this can completely rework an economy. Why is an American dollar worth anything without an America? Seems to me we're basically back to a mixture of self-reliance (scavenging/raiding), barter, and communism, thus:

If you need something you don't have, you either a)get it yourself, using your own skills and knowledge, b) get it from a friend, who will expect to be paid back later - either he'll need something you have, or you'll help him when he needs it, or c) you get it from someone else, who will expect something in return right now - either something he needs, or something you can do for him. If you don't have what he needs - well, see (a), (b), and (c), above.

___

That's just one way the reduced population works together with a greatly expanded native human talent to completely restructure society. Picture any scene with lots of people, and then tell yourself: it doesn't work like that anymore.

e.g., International airlines no longer exist. This isn't for lack of planes or airports, but for lack of pilots and passengers - especially passengers. If you need to get somewhere, you find someone who can fly and who either has a plane or can get one. Extreme is probably the best faction to go to for this, but there're pilots of all stripes. Alternatively, you could "steal" a plane yourself (depending on whose turf the old 'port is on, it might be that no one cares) - that is, if you can fly it and arrange to have enough fuel. Or, if you're in a real hurry or you're buddies of theirs, you could pay your local Jazz men a call. You'd better be prepared to settle up your debt, though.

Most people, though, don't need to go many places they can't walk. This is especially true in some of the cities, where going any significant distance in a car probably means driving through seven different territories without even noticing you're doing it - a fast way to get into trouble, especially if you play your music too loud.

I forgot to talk about that "communism" I mentioned. What happens when, in this sort of society, you have someone who has such stupendous ability that he can not only provide for himself, he can provide for several other people as well? All on his own? Why, you have a leader! He helps a bunch of folks, and now all those people owe him. They can't really pay him back, either - he already has everything he needs, right? The only thing they can give him is loyalty. They do what he says. These leaders are the Champions.

Only, there are enough Champions that these folks aren't doing what he says just because they have to; it's not "his way or starve." They could have chosen to be under the wing of any of several people (most of whom serve different Factions than this guy), but they chose this Champion. Maybe they like his style, maybe they like him personally, maybe they think he's their best shot at being on the winning side of the next War of Manhattan ("may it never come!"), but the bottom line is that it's not a purely economic/political relationship; they really are at least somewhat loyal.

(Again, please argue w' what you don't like.)

So far I'm not seeing anything I don't like. We're not talking about an economy that has collapsed due to outright demolition, rubble-in-the-streets sort of thing - just that there isn't a country there to back it any more. (I'm assuming D.C. has been slagged into a solar mirror at this point, but the rest of the country is mostly intact.)

Wouldn't a Champion, or group of Champions, who were powerful enough try to start their own countries, carving out a sizeable chunk from whatever is left? The Lonestar Republic, the Travelling Empire of New Gettysburg, or what-have-you. Not saying it would work, but somebody might get it in mind to try.

And yeah, I could totally see the local BP station beind replaced with Liquid Schwartz, or vehicles that run because the driver wills them to. (If we're going really high-fantasy on this, I could see Extreme or P&W having air-elemental-driven airships or blimps, but somehow that just doesn't feel right.)