Concerning the previous chaining attempt, you are correct; however, that involved shifting from one object of known current location to another object of known current location, not shifting to an object whose location was determined at some point in the past. As to an object "remembering" that light from the needle touched it, this is stretching the interactive concept.
The first two clarifications are correct. What I was trying to ask without suggesting was whether this required an initial period of concentration or other focusing procedure which would bonus your chance of success.
You succeed in detecting your currently active skills. Your precognitive danger sense, which you activated a few minutes before attempting this skill, has about half an hour left to go. You've been tossing a lot of skills around and working on multiple timelines, so I'm not certain which other skills would be operating at this moment--is there still a retrocog working, or are we in a different point in time from that?
--M. J. Young
that involved shifting from one object of known current location to another object of known current location
Which is exactly what I meant. Imagine that the needle pass near Rock A then exits the scene near Rock B. I will "chain" the skill from Rock A to Rock B and NOT to the metal needle itself. Do you understand what I meant now?
What I was trying to ask without suggesting was whether this required an initial period of concentration or other focusing procedure which would bonus your chance of success.
The situation needs me to develop a skill instantly (to detect whether the precognitive danger sense skill works or not) which was why I have to do it that way (and it was worth the risk). After knowing the time left of each skill and "chaining" them until they are active long enough, I will deactivate this skill and develop a variant of this skill which will require initial period of concentration.
1) I am fairly confident that with a +58 sit-mod Maxx will succeed in learning a history of person. His roll is 65
2) he's only got five left before he loses the projection. I roll 55 on the chaining
3) A roll of 33 gives him 1@1 Precognitive Danger Sense P12@1
4) He rolls 77,and the numbers are 115-40+1@10 BRA-15=80%, so he's got a 1@2 Detect Personal Psi Skill Remaining Durations P3@10
The above are Morach's current active skills. If you do not sure any of the above will last longer than 30 minutes then chain each of them (except the Detect Personal Psi skill) until they are all above 30 minutes.
Point (3) will show you that point (4) should probably be 121-40+1@10 BRA-15=86% because of the raise in Psi bias if I am not mistaken.
I will then deactivate Detect Personal Psi skill to develop a more reliable variant of it. I will take the deactivated skill as an example to develop a more reliable skill which has 30 minutes of concentration period that would be needed (to examine the variable that relates to my skills) to estimate my skills active time much better.
O.K., I don't like it, but I guess that if you roll for chaining with each shift in object you can move from object to object a few feet at a time and follow the needle. Are you also walking the path followed by the needle (to the degree that you can), or are you doing this from a fixed location?
It looks to me as if the history of person skill and the projection skill both have about three quarters of an hour on them by the time you run the detect.
You are correct on the psi bias error; I had not added that skill to your sheet before calculating the other, because from the previous post I had not established whether it would have a +59SM or only +49 (if you were going to include the skill to make you aware of the operation of the skill), so I missed it when I was doing this one.
The Detect Personal Psi Skills skill does not get "deactivated"; it tells you at a specific moment what the statuses of your skills are. If you want to know the status again five minutes later, you must perform the skill again. That would also be true for the variant you are currently proposing, unless you redesign it.
--M. J. Young
O.K., I don't like it, but I guess that if you roll for chaining with each shift in object you can move from object to object a few feet at a time and follow the needle.
Can I ask why you don't like it?
I think it is a good way to use the skill.
Are you also walking the path followed by the needle (to the degree that you can)
Of course I will "walk" or "float" to follow the metal needle path because touching the metal needle is the goal after all. I plan to touch the object in the direction of the metal needle first then "chain" the skill (which will look like stepping on Object A with right leg and activating the skill then stepping Object B with left leg then chaining the skill to Object B then stepping Object C with right leg then chaining the skill to Object C and so on).
I will "chain" the precognitive danger skill three times in a row.
This is an experiment to see if I can get a longer activation time if I try to "chain" a skill like that.
the "detect psionic skill" is active (with usual RS minutes).
I did say the above previously but I guess you have missed it. I will redesign the variant skill so that it will update the status every time a new skill is activated or chained as long as the "detect psionic skill" remained active (with usual RS minutes). The skill could also be "chained" to check the current estimated time of each activated skills.
The variant "detect psionic skill" will have 30 minutes of concentration time.
The reason for the concentration time is to examine the variable that relates to my skills which in turn will estimate my skills active time much better.
I have addressed what it was I don't like in a separate thread, What I don't like about mixing concentration and chaining, where I concluded
If a skill requires an extended preparatory concentration, "chaining" rolls are thereafter limited to such purposes and targets as were envisioned when the preparation was undertaken, and any change in those purposes or targets which takes it beyond the initial parameters will require a fresh performance of the skill including the preparatory time.That's the rule, and it means that once you target an object for retrocognition, you can't change objects by chaining, only by doing the skill over from scratch. That satisfies my concerns and objections, which are discussed in significant detail on that thread. I still have strong objections to the notion that you can chain even the duration of any skill which includes a bonus for preparatory concentration without repeating the preparatory concentration. However, I recall that there is a solution for that given under chaining bod skills, which I will apply if I remember to do so henceforth.
The answer is, you get a longer activation time only to the degree that the time tolling from the later activations extends beyond that of the earlier ones. That is, if we assume three uses five minutes apart, with these rolls:This is an experiment to see if I can get a longer activation time if I try to "chain" a skill like that.
- At 10:00, roll 55, skill runs to 10:55.
- At 10:05, roll 25, skill runs to 10:30, but since the previous roll carries it to 10:55, skill runs to 10:55.
- At 10:10, roll 50, skill runs to 11:00, which extends the time by 5:00 beyond the previous 10:55 end point.
O.K., I missed the RS minutes clause in the detects skill. That's an expensive shift, but once we're clear of the present stack of active skills we'll address it.
--M. J. Young
I have addressed what it was I don't like in a separate thread, What I don't like about mixing concentration and chaining
I will discuss the above in that thread.
The answer is, you get a longer activation time only to the degree that the time tolling from the later activations extends beyond that of the earlier ones.
I would not know the result yet because the detects skill are not activated yet right or is it activated already?
That's an expensive shift, but once we're clear of the present stack of active skills we'll address it.
I wonder how expensive it is. I just let the previous detects skill to act like a pulse. For me, instant activation could mean the skill could be activated instantly and can remain active (because I always have concentration period before skill). It could also mean that the skill acts like a pulse which I think using "pulse activation" would be a good idea to avoid confusion. The variant skill will stay active for RS minutes but will only provide update if a new skill is activated or any skill is "chained" within that RS minutes.
The price of your new skill is going to be Scott's problem, unless he asks my advice. I forwarded your character papers to him about three hours ago as the last step I had to take to transfer your game into his hands.
I suspect you'll be back to me sometime, as everyone seems to come back to my table eventually (actually, that's not true--David Marcoe hasn't done so yet), but for the moment Scott knows the scenario and probably knows the system as well as anyone (including me), so you're in good hands.
--M. J. Young
Alright, so I've read through your thread again and I think I know what's going on right now, but the first thing I'm going to ask you to do is to summarize for me what you think is happening. By that, I mean I want to know:
* The present time (described however is most relevant)
* What just happened / what you have just done
* Your present status (your location, your condition, and what skills you currently have running)
* Your present goal (what you are trying to accomplish in this scene)
and
* Your pending actions (everything you have stated that you "will" do or "are" doing, but which had not actually been done or fully resolved before MJ relinquished your game to me)
I'm asking you to do this for three of reasons. First, I want to make sure we're both on the same page (so to speak) before we move forward. There is enough potential for miscommunication on a forum already; we don't want the added headache of mismatched starting assumptions. Second, it's been almost a month of real time since your Feb 15th post reiterating your intention to attempt an out-of-body psi skill, with lengthy posts spanning two pages of the thread; a summary post gathering all the relevant information into one place will make proceeding from here far easier for me (and maybe for you, too).
Third, having you do this buys me a little more time. I get another day to go over my notes and grow more confident that I'm prepared to run you before making a "real" game post. (The first two reasons are more important, but I'm not afraid to admit the third.)
If you have any questions, feel free to include them in your post, but please don't include any additional actions until we're caught up with what's happening right now. Thanks.
I realize this might be a bit abrupt, but I'm looking forward to taking over your game. I'll do my best to run your game fairly and keep it fun for both of us.
I forwarded your character papers to him about three hours ago as the last step I had to take to transfer your game into his hands.
Can I see those as well to make sure it match what is on mine or is it only viewable after I verse?
I suspect you'll be back to me sometime
Thank you for being a wonderful referee during all this time. Well, I hope that we can meet as players (such as in a gather) in future verses. That reminds me of round robin referee system.
*****
The present time
Previously on Maxximum Reality: I am now in spirit form. Then I try the retrocognitive skill on my own body to see my own past. This then gives me an idea to develop a skill to give me a warning of immediate danger which I then develop. The problem with this skill is I cannot sense when it will end thus I develop another skill to detect and estimate my current active Psi skill.
What just happened / what you have just done
I think Morach tried to chain the precognitive danger skill three times in a row but I do not know if this have been rolled or not. (Even if it is rolled I would not know the result.) Before that, Morach was using detects Psi skills to estimate his skills active time but it is activated like a pulse which means it only lasts a moment.
Your present status (your location, your condition, and what skills you currently have running)
I am in spirit form near my own body which would be near my parents. My body in sleep-like state.
Current active skill:
1) Spirit travel (45 minutes according to detects skill)
2) Retrocognitive on self (45 minutes according to detects skill)
3) Precognitive danger sense (30 minutes according to detects skill)
The above time could be different after I try to chain Precognitive danger sense three times in a row but I am not sure if I had done that already.
Your present goal
A safe out of body experience. I also have a couple of experiments that I want to do during this spirit travel which include knowing the past event during the time that I cut swath through the forest to see if I can take an example from it, knowing the past of the metal needle (but I have to track it first) and experiment on the movement of the spirit.
Your pending actions
Make a variant of the detect Psi skills which will stay active for RS minutes but will only provide update if a new skill is activated or any skill is "chained" within that RS minutes.
to make sure we're both on the same page
I wanted to use the above expression on the 360th post on this thread. But then the next post will be on the next page which make it sound a little ironic. Your post just make me remember about that.
I would also try to complete the journal if you want a summary but that may take a while because it have been 4 months since I last updated it.
Third, having you do this buys me a little more time.
That also buys me some time to complete the journal.
I'm looking forward to taking over your game. I'll do my best to run your game fairly and keep it fun for both of us.
Thank you. I am looking forward for that too. I am sure you could teach me a lot of things.
Maxx, you actually have two character papers--one for Maxx and one for Morach. I'll post Morach's first:
- Name Theian Orlanda Morach
a.k.a. Maxx
TOM: initials of name, means "Twin" in Greek
Attributes
Persuasion 1@8
Charisma
Animal Magnetism
Strength 0@9+3
Stamina 1@3+3
Resistance 1@4+1
Density 1@1
Flexibility 1@10+2
Agility 0@10+3
Hand/Eye 0@10+3
Intellect 1@9
Intuition 1@10
Education Level 2@2
Will Power 1@8
Averaged Attributes
Ranged Strike Value
Martial Strike Value
Target Value
Damage Value
Best Relevant Attributes
Tech
Psi 1@10
Mag
Bod
Bias
Tech
Psi 11@5
Mag
Bod
Weaknesses
Description
Slight preference for left hand, silver hair, violet eyes
Skills
Tech
Psi
Familiarity: Theian Orlina Lelach +10; Theian Alanda Morani
2@1 Teaching P0@1
1@6 Meditation P1@0 one minute of mind relaxation gives +RS/10 to immediately subsequent psionic skill attempt, touching hand to head for focus gives +5SM
1@6 Self-Hypnosis P1@0 causes character to feel positive
1@4 Perceive Purpose P1@0 enables user to recognize in detail what a target is doing, e.g., identifying that the target is "looking for something" including what it is he seeks, baseline assumes familiarity with target and one minute of direct observation. Each doubling of observation time grants +10, provided the target is still doing the same thing. Also used to predict response to possible suggestions.
1@3 Understand Interests P1@0 interprets data from tapping visual sensory data to determine the interests and mental conditions of a target creature.
1@9 Read Minds P1@1 used also to obtain mental frequency and explore mental structures, does not tap sensory information directly, does not read how the mind controls the body, can be used via enhanced vision skills (e.g., density vision)
1@7 Enhanced Recollection P1@1 (read minds on self)
1@3 Read Sensory Information Center P1@1 (Visual)
1@3 Read Mind/Body Interface (mental control of actions) P1@1
1@2 Read Sensory Information (Visual) P1@1 with one minute of preparatory concentration +10SM
1@4 Read Sensory Information (Visual) P1@1 with two minutes of preparatory concentration +20SM
1@2 Read Sensory Information (Visual) P1@1 with four minutes of preparatory concentration +30SM
1@8 Telepathy to Humans P1@3
1@5 Telepathy to Animals (and plants) P1@6 includes chain telepathy
1@10 Focus Senses P3@0 sensitivity variant enables sorting specific auditory or other sensory information from background +3 marks
1@2 Locate Telepathically Known Person P3@1 detects the direction of a specified mind provided that mind is known telepathically to the user, +10SM
1@4 Heightened Awareness P3@1 may be rolled to negate surprise
1@4 Detect Materials P3@4 (known patterns: seed mush, fabric, air, water, food in various condition, hair, saliva)
1@3 Clairvoyance P3@6 4:00 prep concentration on target image +20SM
1@3 Read Neural Motor Pattern P3@9 gives perception of the neural process of a targeted physical action in a phantom limb, usable as an example for skill learning purposes
1@1 Tag mind of located hidden subject P3@9 enables the telepathic tagging of the mind of an unfamiliar creature whose position is known but who cannot be viewed because of intervening obstacles.
1@1 Remote tag mind based on sensory information from third-party mind P3@9
1@2 Detect Personal Psi Skill Remaining Durations P3@10 will allow the user to know which of his skills are currently operational and roughly how long they have until they fail if not renewed -15SM
1@1 Haste P4@0 increases speed by RS%
1@3 Enhance Tactile Sense with Auditory P5@1 shuts down auditory sense and feeds sound as tactile impression
1@1 Microscopic Vision P5@1 requires making a ring with fingers to create a focal area, shining a light (which may be the body-generated light of a sprite) on the target area, and must begin with 4:00 concentration, +35SM
1@2 Enhanced Vision P5@1 takes distant or blurry images and processes them into focused images, one per minute for RS minutes, image is still and forms 0:30 after initial view, 2:00 preparatory concentration +20SM
1@1 Spirit Travel P5@10 with 30:00 preparatory concentration in which body is placed on sleep-like autonomic process time measured by mental countdown, allows spirit to sever all connection with body and travel independently for RS minutes or until terminated, +59SM
1@3 Reduce Pain P6@1 by self-hypnosis to induce happy thoughts creating a hormone that intercepts the pain signals RS minutes
1@2 Redirect Light P7@6 must rest two hours before, use right hand to direct focus, will gather local light and beam it outward for RS/5 minutes, exhaustion following use requires immediate rest for four hours, +25SM.
1@2 Analyze Chemistry by Visual Perception of Molecular Structure in Slow Motion P9@1 (light not essential) 30:00 preparatory concentration, can be focused to observe quark level instead (separate use) +59SM
1@2 Analyze Chemistry to Diagram View P9@1 after concentrating for 20:00 extend both hands toward object to be analyzed, closing eyes, displays molecular diagram view of material targeted, user can specify distance but density of targeted material can be a limiting factor, Maximum depth in inches equals relative success divided by one tenth density, +39SM
1@1 Analyze Chemistry by Spectroscopic Imaging P9@1 allows user to perceive all energies emanating or reflecting from all materials in view as color bars which can be sorted to identify materials and energy levels, following 4:00 preparation, an intellect check may be necessary to interpret the information, +30SM
1@1 Perceive Density P9@1 analyze chemistry variant 4:00 preparatory concentration determines density within line of vision based on density (maximum depth in inches=RS divided by one tenth density) +40SM
1@1 Analyze Chemistry by Clairvoyant Perception of Molecular Structure in Slow Motion P9@2 (light not essential) 30:00 preparatory concentration, can be focused to observe quark level instead (separate use) +49SM
1@2 Create Force Object Fixed Stabilizing Wall P10@1 16:00 preparatory concentration RS minutes creates bar length of the height of an adult male sprite which may be bent in any shape but which must be positioned roughly shoulder height from a surface +50SM
1@1 Retrocognitive Event Awareness P11@1 30:00 preparatory concentration +59SM
1@2 History of Object P11@2 30:00 preparatory concentration while in contact with object required +58SM
1@2 History of Person P11@5 30:00 preparatory concentration while in contact with person required +58SM
1@1 Precognitive Danger Sense P12@1 30:00 preparatory concentration negates surprise for RS minutes duration by creating anticipatory sense of danger +59SM
Mag
1@1 Bonus Survival Skills M+1@4 pray for one hour using appropriate words, provides one week of RS/10 bonus to all survival skill checks of intended target -16SM
1@1 Bless Foraging Skills M+1@4 while eating a meal, pray repeatedly by thought that the target can feel satiated by such food as he finds find while caster is eating. Some of the food consumed by the caster is destroyed such that it feeds the subject rather than the caster; after eating a napkin or any object which can serve the function (including leaf, napkin) is used to wipe mouth, then shredded and scattered symbolizing plenteous food around the target; clap and tap "TQ FOR FOOD" in Morse Code with hands and say "thank you" aloud; pronunciation of the word is not essential as long as the effort to speak is made. TF 30:00, causes target to find sufficient food for one day.
1@2 Counter Pain M+2@1 covers two people, thoughts directed to God for safety and to make pain bearable during one event -10SM
1@1 Restful Sleep M+2@1 lay down and cross arms, thinking a prayer for good rest and subsequent alertness 10:00 TF +70SM
1@1 Reduced Sleep M+2@1 lay down and cross arms, thinking a prayer for good rest and subsequent alertness in half the time 20:00 TF +50SM
1@1 Eliminate Pain M+2@1 In a relaxed position, touch area of pain; once per minute perform "Pain fly away gesture" then clap (dot) and drum (dash) "BYE" in Morse code while saying "Bye", for 30 minutes, and pray repeatedly that the pain will be more bearable. Effective through the present pain event up to eight hours +65SM
1@2 Semi-animate: Dancing Leaves M3@8 cause leaves to leap up and scatter themselves on command for ninety minutes of intuition practice time, TF :10 preparatory +:90 concurrent with effect, say "Help Practice" in Morse Code, tapping hands loudly, sound vital, can sit any way that is comfortable, must wiggle wings or back muscles, physically exhausting requires fifteen minutes rest immediately after, target leaves must have caster's saliva on them, which evaporates during the casting, up to fifty leaves affected, can only be done in a place caster has designated as "home", +31SM
1@6 Prayer for Guidance M7@7 not detailed, requires speech
Bod
1@1 Manipulate Object B0@1
1@5 Signal Generation, auditory B0@2
1@5 Multi-legged Crawl B1@3
1@3 Arm-assisted Walking B2@2
1@1 Assisted Balance Beam Walking B6@1 +20SM on surfaces twice the width of the foot provided that there is stable support for one hand
Equipment
Stage
World List
Mother: Lelach, violet eyes, blonde hair
Father: Morani, brown hair and eyes
The "+#" on the attributes is a way of keeping track of the impact of your self-training over the normal developmental advances; that is, as of the last book reference (which I think was maybe six months old, but I'm not certain) the strength of a child is normally 0@9; your exercise program gives you +3 over that, making it 1@2. At the next marker (which is at 24 months) the normal strength of a child is greater, and I didn't want to get confused between what part of the numbers on the sheet were your self-improvements and what part were my efforts to track development. Obviously the child does not skip numbers between points of development, but advances through them; Scott might decide to increase your listed strength to an intervening point, in which case he might still want to keep the distinction between the normal developmental number and your bonus value--but that's up to him as to how he prefers to do it.
Now for your human sheet:
- Name ??
a.k.a. Maxx
Attributes
Persuasion 1@7
Charisma
Animal Magnetism
Strength
Stamina
Resistance
Density
Flexibility
Agility
Hand/Eye
Intellect 1@8
Intuition 1@9
Education Level 2@2
Will Power 1@8
Averaged Attributes
Ranged Strike Value
Martial Strike Value
Target Value
Damage Value
Best Relevant Attributes
Tech
Psi
Mag
Bod
Bias
Tech
Psi
Mag
Bod
Weaknesses
Description
Hair: black; eyes: black
Skills
Tech
2@5 Computer Programming T11@1 C++, Java, Javascript, PHP, Matlab, Visual Basic and a few more, with experience in Action Script, Perl, Prolog (for AI), BASIC and several others; also includes virtual or augmented reality, integration of hardware interface, mapping, object recognition and visual augmentation.
2@4 Modify Computer T11@3 includes virtual or augmented reality, integration of hardware interface with mapping, object recognition and visual augmentation.
2@5 Repair Computer T11@4 including limited PCB, electrical stuff such as servomotor and others.
2@3 Build Computer T11@5 VHDL to program FPGA (such as making a scientific calculator)
Psi
2@1 Teaching P0@1
1@9 Focus Senses P3@0 sensitivity variant enables sorting specific auditory or other sensory information from background
Mag
1@5 Religion, undisclosed alliance faith M1@0
1@6 Prayer for Guidance M7@7 not detailed, requires speech
Bod
0@4 Pitch Discrimination B0@6
Equipment
Stage
World List
As always, when I post a sheet it's so that we can reconcile differences between them, so if you've got something I missed, say so. Also, there are skills that aren't listed in part because they haven't mattered so much, and in part because they're duplicate--your tech skills go with your mind, so you can do all those things in the new person, except that your bod skills are so limited that they would make it difficult, and the technology for them doesn't exist in this world as yet.
--M. J. Young
Concerning chaining the danger sense:
1) If you aren't sure, it didn't happen. You've only performed the skill once.
2) It takes thirty minutes of prep time to execute, right? If you used this skill repeatedly, everything else would have long since worn off by the time you were done.
3) If you "chain" a skill of this kind, the additional duration is counted from the moment you make the successful check to chain. It is not added to the end of the duration you already had from the first check. Thus, if you were to perform the skill (successfully, rolling 30), then "chain" it five minutes later (successfully, rolling 33), and they "chain" again five minutes after that (rolling 24), you wouldn't have (30+33+24-10=) 77 minutes of danger sense remaining; you would have ((30-10) < 24 < (33-5), so 33-5=) 28 minutes -- and that's ignoring the fact that you can't repeat it that quickly because of the required prep time. There's very little benefit to chaining this sort of skill in quick succession like that.
So, you've only used it once, and you know from your psi-skill-duration-detection pulse that you've got about half an hour left on it. If you still intend to use it repeatedly, tell me when.
You are in spirit form, invisible even to yourself, near your sleeping body; your parents sleep nearby. You are not near the location where your psionic mishap caused destruction in the forest, but you intend to go there soon in order to investigate that event retrocognitively. For now, however, you want to develop a technique for detecting, in an ongoing fashion, the remaining duration of the psionic skills initiated by yourself which are currently active on your person.
Is that correct? If so, tell me anything else I need to know about this new skill. If not, (obviously) correct me, and if I've missed anything important, let me know.
I think the Psi bias is 12@1 and Maxx human eyes are almost black or very dark brown but putting black is alright.
If you aren't sure, it didn't happen. You've only performed the skill once.
Alright, I am glad that is settled.
It takes thirty minutes of prep time to execute, right? If you used this skill repeatedly, everything else would have long since worn off by the time you were done.
It needs thirty minutes of prep time to execute but I am not sure that it will need thirty minutes of time to chain.
Consider a person who does 30 minutes of warm up before an exercise. Would that person need to re-warm up to exercise or can that person just continue the exercise?
Does the effect of warm up continue when that person continue to exercise or would it wither down?
Either way, I kind of like your ruling on chaining and I did give a few alternatives on the "What I don't like about mixing concentration and chaining" thread. The above are just a few points for you to consider.
With your ruling, I wonder how a variable concentration time is treated. I also wonder if it is possible to develop a precognitive skill that can detect the success of next skill for a specific concentration time or "Precognitive concentration estimation".
If you "chain" a skill of this kind, the additional duration is counted from the moment you make the successful check to chain.
and that's ignoring the fact that you can't repeat it that quickly because of the required prep time. There's very little benefit to chaining this sort of skill in quick succession like that.
That confuses me a bit. If for example the prep time are required for "chaining", then the skill would just be done that the end of the prep time which in turn would just redo the skill from start and that would not be "chaining" but just redo the skill all over again.
For example using what M.J. rolled before and provided that the skill have 30 minutes left:
1) At 10:00, roll 55, chaining need 30 minutes so at the end of prep time is 10:30 and then the skill runs to 11:25.
2) At 10:30, roll 25, chaining need 30 minutes so at the end of prep time is 11:00 and then the skill will still runs to 11:25.
3) At 11:00, roll 50, chaining need 30 minutes so at the end of prep time is 11:30 but since the skill will run out at 11:25 the skill will stop at 11:25. Here it gets weird because if the prep time is continued for 5 more minutes (at 11:30), the skill will then reactivate because the prep time for the skill is reached and it will runs to 12:20.
If you still intend to use it repeatedly, tell me when.
That depends on the chaining interval of the skill. If 30 minutes of prep time are needed to "chain" the skill then that amounts to doing the skill all over again. However, if I can "chain" the skill as long as I have 30 minutes left without doing any prep time then I will try to "chain" the skill one time then start on the next skill.
For now, however, you want to develop a technique for detecting, in an ongoing fashion, the remaining duration of the psionic skills initiated by yourself which are currently active on your person.
Yes, with the prep time of 30 minutes. Do I have an example for this skill variant from psi-skill-duration-detection pulse?
A quick note on chaining: its primary function in psionics is to avoid interruption of an ongoing skill use. That is, if you are levitating or flying, or telekinetically suspending an object, and the time is lapsing, you would feel yourself "slipping". If the skill "ended" and "restarted" there would have to be an instant when it was not held and so was falling; chaining eliminates this instant. Similarly, if you were using a clairsentient skill to follow a moving object you could keep pace with the object, but if the skill was interrupted you could only return to the last place you knew the object to be, after which you would have to try to find it again; if you chain it, your connection is not interrupted, and thus you don't lose the connection.
As far as concentration being akin to warm-up, the connection is too metaphorical to be pressed. The bonuses on the skill are not because you are "warmed up" but because you have made performance of the skill more difficult by making a successful use take thirty minutes of prep time. In this case, Scott is perfectly right to say that you have learned a skill that requires thirty minutes to perform, and just because you do it twice in a row doesn't mean it doesn't take as long the second time. If you were making pies that took thirty minutes each, it would not take less than thirty minutes to make the second merely because you already made the first.
It is not impossible to create a comparable "psionic warm-up" skill that confers a bonus to the next psionic skill check; but such a bonus would apply only to one skill use anyway, so it would have exhausted its value by the time you attempted to chain the next one.
It is better to think of the concentration period as the time an acrobat spends focusing on his first move. There is some degree to which once he makes that first move he might be able to keep going based on the "flow" of his motions, but that initial concentration has nothing to do with the second move, only with the first.
--M. J. Young
If you were making pies that took thirty minutes each, it would not take less than thirty minutes to make the second merely because you already made the first.
Copying M.J. for a while: As far as concentration being akin to baking pies, the connection is too metaphorical to be pressed. (Insert appropriate emoticon here.)
I think concentration is closer to warm up to baking a pie but I know what you meant. I think it is more like reheating the pie. If you bake it for another 30 minutes, the pie will be burnt because it is essentially the same pie. If it is a different pie then I think that is more like redoing the skill to another object (thus why I cannot "chain" History of Person skill to another person) and in a sense not "chaining" the skill.
It is not impossible to create a comparable "psionic warm-up" skill that confers a bonus to the next psionic skill check
Could you give an example of the calculation between 16 minutes of "psionic warm-up" and 16 minutes of concentration for a skill so it would be easier to compare them?
1) such a bonus would apply only to one skill use anyway, so it would have exhausted its value by the time you attempted to chain the next one.
2) It is better to think of the concentration period as the time an acrobat spends focusing on his first move.
I also like the above alternatives. This would mean when the skill is "chained", it would be calculated without the concentration period. This however makes "chaining" a skill with concentration and without concentration the same.
I'm moving the chaining discussion to the thread about chaining. Expect a post from me there "soon".
For now, however, you want to develop a technique for detecting, in an ongoing fashion, the remaining duration of the psionic skills initiated by yourself which are currently active on your person.Yes, with the prep time of 30 minutes. Do I have an example for this skill variant from psi-skill-duration-detection pulse?
No, you don't.
Two reasons:
1) Although the result is similar, the skill is very different both in its execution and its nature. The skill you are inventing monitors, the skill you already know checks; the skill you are inventing requires a long time and a great deal of careful thought, while the skill you already know is the work of a moment. They're just not similar enough in technique to justify an example bonus.
2) You don't need it anyway. Your personal bias gives you, like, +81 to learning in this case, which drowns out any piddling +11 for an example (or lack thereof).
You might want to wait until we resolve this issue of chaining psi skills with durations and long preparatory periods, though; you might want to redesign this skill once it's all sorted out. Your call.
You don't need it anyway.
Well, I just hope that will be the case.
You might want to wait until we resolve this issue of chaining psi skills with durations and long preparatory periods, though; you might want to redesign this skill once it's all sorted out.
That sounds like a good idea.
Considering I do not have enough time to "consecutive chain" my skill, I will try to develop the technique for detecting, in an ongoing fashion, the remaining duration of the psionic skills initiated by myself which are currently active with 8 minutes of prep time so I can do something else after that.
And am I to understand that this preparatory time is required for skill's functioning, cannot be used to prepare for any other skill (no matter how similar), and demands most of your concentration? Also, how long do you intend for the skill to last, roughly speaking?
This is a fairly complex technique to figure out, but the principles involved are nearly so difficult as those for actually seeing through time. After a period of concentration, you get a read on your currently active psionics:
1) Spirit travel - roughly 40 minutes remaining
2) History of Self - roughly 40 minutes remaining
3) Precognitive danger sense - roughly 20 minutes remaining
You're not sure your estimates are as accurate as you'd prefer, but you have managed to keep a continuous read.
What now? (And do you remember where your parents usually sleep this time of year?)
____
Maxx: Instead of posting mechanics in a separate thread, I usually just draw a line in the post and throw the mechanics at the bottom. Treat this information the same way you would MJ's posts in the mechanics thread: at the table, this is stuff you wouldn't know except for what made its way onto your character sheet.
I'm not sure of the sit-mod on this skill yet without confirmation from Maxx, but with a roll of 16 I don't have to be. I'm adding a preliminary version to my sheet at 1@1.
Also, MJ - I didn't think History of Person was the kind of skill that typically had a duration. What does that duration mean for this skill?
this preparatory time is required for skill's functioning, cannot be used to prepare for any other skill (no matter how similar), and demands most of your concentration?
Yes.
Also, how long do you intend for the skill to last, roughly speaking?
Like my other Psi skills.
You're not sure your estimates are as accurate as you'd prefer, but you have managed to keep a continuous read.
I will try to notice if any changes occur during every minute, every 5 minutes, every 10 minutes or every 20 minutes. That way I will know how accurate this skill is.
Does the skill estimate its own active time?
And do you remember where your parents usually sleep this time of year?
I am not sure but it is somewhere inside the clearing but not inside the tree. I am also not sure of the exact position of where I sleep but if I have to guess it would be near the center of the clearing or close to the tree.
I also forget to ask what would happen if it suddenly rains when we were sleeping. Does rain bother a sleeping sprite in any way? I wonder if we move inside the tree if it rains or sleep under it to shield from the rain.
In the mean time, I will try to accelerate my speed to go to the place that I create a swath through the forest then stop when I got there.
How much time is left for Precognitive danger sense when I got there?
There I will touch a stub and try to figure out how I have created such a power in the first place by concentrating 8 minutes on related events.
I didn't think History of Person was the kind of skill that typically had a duration. What does that duration mean for this skill?
Does that mean all (or only specific) information of the person can be known if the skill work instantly?
Does the duration end if I let go of the body or does it still continue considering the spirit is also part of the person?
I didn't scan back through the thread, but on my copy of Morach's character sheet there's no duration indicated for the history of person skill. However, I have an answer. To my mind,
- the history of person would last RS=DC minutes,
- the amateur would would learn one cogent fact about the person per minute.
--M. J. Young
Well, since you're only estimating one minute, five minute, or ten minute increments in the first place, that's not a terribly effective way to check its accuracy. It's kind of like trying to tell if a clock is fast or slow by watching it.
And no, you aren't getting any read on how long you will be able maintain the detect.
(While we're on the subject of your active skills: in light of how the History of Person skill works, are you still maintaining it? I think it more likely that you dropped it once you learned what you were trying to learn; even if you didn't, I think it's likely that you dropped it when you next attempted a skill requiring high-concentration preparation. If you disagree, let me know; otherwise I'll assume you've dropped the History of Person.)
How fast is fast enough to stop accelerating? When do you start stopping?
Does rain bother a sleeping sprite in any way? I wonder if we move inside the tree if it rains or sleep under it to shield from the rain.
I imagine from time to time a sprite is awoken by rain. Retreat to the roots of a tree is probably the usual strategy for staying dry, but if a downpour were particularly torrential, I wouldn't be surprised if a sprite were to spend the night under shelter.
____
I was pretty sure you would ask that about the detect, but I thought I'd wait for you to notice before saying anything.
Thank you, MJ, for the clarification on the history skill.
I've rolled a series of skill checks for acceleration with Spirit Travel, but I'll wait to post them until we've settled the details.
Oh, and those were the answers I was expecting concerning the design of the detection skill, so here's how I've listed it on your sheet:
1@1 Detect Personal Psi Skill Remaining Durations, Continuous P3@10 requires 0:08:00 high concentration to initiate, for RS minutes allows user to know which of his skills are operational and to monitor roughly how long they have until they fail if not renewed, does not detect itself, +5 SM
that's not a terribly effective way to check its accuracy.
I want to know if I can sense the remaining time counting down from 20 minutes to 19 minutes, 15 minutes, 10 minutes or until 0 minutes (which is why I am estimating it that way). This could be analogized to viewing an analog clock that only change every minute because it does not have a second hand compared to a clock that have one.
And no, you aren't getting any read on how long you will be able maintain the detect.
An interesting limitation. I wonder if it does not detect self because it only detects skills that is initiated before the active time or to prevent some sort of loop or echo.
otherwise I'll assume you've dropped the History of Person.
I think I will drop the History of Person when I leave my body considering I have asked what I needed to know for now.
How fast is fast enough to stop accelerating? When do you start stopping?
I accelerate at a constant rate until I got halfway to the goal and start decelerate at the same rate so by the time I reach the goal I would have stopped. I will note my maximum speed (the speed before I decelerate) relative to my walking speed for reference. How long is the journey to the goal?
I imagine from time to time a sprite is awoken by rain.
I wonder if sprite can predict weather much better because of this.
After I got to the goal, I will touch a tree stub (that became that way because of my power) and try to figure out how I have created such a power in the first place by concentrating 8 minutes on related events.
*****
What does DC stands for?
At another thread, it seems that RS=DC will "reduce all damage roughly by half on rolls up to 50, and half again to 80, and half again above that."
What does RS=DC minutes stand for?
Does it mean that the effectiveness of the skill is also affected by RS?
Is the above the same when learning skill when you get 1@1 SAL for roll 1 to 50, 1@2 SAL for roll 51 to 80, and 1@3 SAL for roll 81 to 100?
What does DC stands for?
At another thread, it seems that RS=DC will "reduce all damage roughly by half on rolls up to 50, and half again to 80, and half again above that."
What does RS=DC minutes stand for?
Sorry. It means I was typing in a hurry and not intelligently proofreading.
"DC" stands for "Damage Category", which are conversion rates between the successful die roll and the number of intensities of damage done. The recognized damage categories are:
- Annoying: no damage on successful rolls through 50, one intensity above that. It is suggested that if somehow a player can roll a successful 101, that should be two intensities, but I've never been in a situation where the rule applied.
- Damaging: one to five intensities of damage, calculated as RS/20, rounded up, that is, one twentieth of the die roll but all fractions go up.
- Dangerous: one to ten intensities, RS/10, same rounding, and so for the next two.
- Lethal: one to twenty intensities, RS/5.
- Fatal: one to fifty intensities, RS/2.
- Annihilating: one to one hundred intensities, RS, that is, whatever the dice show, that's the damage.
- Obliterative: Complete destruction of some specified affected area without reference to amount of damage done or value of die roll, beyond hit or miss.
I meant RS minutes in the quoted post, which means simply that the duration is equal to the successful roll in minutes.
Effectiveness of a skill is frequently connected to RS, which stands for Relative Success, and thus means how high the dice are as long as they do not exceed the maximum successful roll. If you roll close to your own maximum you do close to your own best, but someone with a considerably higher maximum could still do better even without approaching his own best. It is often a subjective determination by the referee, but can be very specific, such as in damage, sometimes in velocities or distances, and in a few other cases. In the case of the history of person skill, the effectiveness is linked to the number of details you can acquire through the time you can maintain the skill; it may also be subjectively linked through the significance of the information, e.g., on a low roll you might first learn that this man had scrambled eggs for breakfast, while on a high roll your first discovery might be that he's the long-lost Indevarian Prince.
Sorry for the confusion.
--M. J. Young
I want to know if I can sense the remaining time counting down from 20 minutes to 19 minutes, 15 minutes, 10 minutes or until 0 minutes (which is why I am estimating it that way). This could be analogized to viewing an analog clock that only change every minute because it does not have a second hand compared to a clock that have one.
The detect skill does not give you information in terms of units of time. Rather, it allows you to recognize the psionic skills you have active and detect certain properties of their effects. From those properties, you are able to estimate how long each skill will remain active. The detect skill you're using is continuous, and accordingly, the remaining duration detected changes continuously and gradually. So you see, it's much more like looking at an unmarked hourglass (or several hourglasses, one for each skill detected) and guessing how long you have until the sand runs out.
You're still quite new at this Spirit Travel thing, and you don't quite manage a constant rate of acceleration or deceleration. You accelerate frustratingly slowly at first. You keep pushing at it, and you start getting faster faster, but your control isn't very good and you're over halfway there before you reverse your efforts and start slowing down. You do better at slowing down - perhaps too well. Before long you're back to moving at a brisk walk. You manage to stop when you arrive at the area with the cut-down trees. Well, you've mostly stopped; after a bit you notice that you're still drifting a few inches per second, but once you notice it only takes a moment to correct.
You're in spirit form, within reach of a tree stump which has already begun to sprout new shoots around its edges. You have roughly thirty minutes left in spirit form and roughly fifteen minutes of danger sense.
Tell me more about this:
I will touch a tree stub (that became that way because of my power) and try to figure out how I have created such a power in the first place by concentrating 8 minutes on related events.
___
Acceleration rolls: 20, 24, 34, 45, now he's 2/3rds of the way there so deceleration rolls: 76, 39, now he's less than a minute away traveling at 108% walking speed, no need to roll for the stop.
I did that with a calculator, but it would be tedious to type it all in here, so I won't. I don't think he's used this skill in this way before, and there aren't that many different ways to use a skill like Spirit Travel (there are great many things you can do with it, but few new techniques, if you follow me), so I'll give him a skill mark for successfully adjusting his speed of travel. That brings him to 1@2.
I can't roll for his next trick until I know what he's doing.
it's much more like looking at an unmarked hourglass (or several hourglasses, one for each skill detected) and guessing how long you have until the sand runs out.
So with practice this skill could estimate more accurately by marking the interval between minutes (of the hourglass) right?
Acceleration and deceleration during spirit travel was fun. I like to try that again sometime to test how fast I can go.
You have roughly thirty minutes left in spirit form and roughly fifteen minutes of danger sense.
Last time I checked the spirit form have 40 minutes left and danger sense have 20 minutes left. With this revelation, I think the accuracy is about plus minus 2.5 minutes. Let say that spirit form have 38 minutes left (detect as 40) and danger sense have 22 minutes left (detect as 20). After 6 minutes, spirit form will have 32 minutes left (detect as 30) and danger sense will have 16 minutes left (detect as 15).
I will touch a tree stub (that became that way because of my power) and try to figure out how I have created such a power in the first place by concentrating 8 minutes on related events.
The above meant that I will think about how the incident happen in the first place by the data I gathered before from my other retrocognitive skills and the last piece of the puzzle (the tree stump) so that I could have an example on how to replicate the effects of the incident.
*****
Sorry for the confusion.
Thank you for the clarification.
A minute before stopping I think I cover 9.2 times the distance I walked per minute. The acceleration and deceleration saves about half the time I need to get to the goal if I walk there normally. My maximum speed is 2.23 times my walking speed.
I can't roll for his next trick until I know what he's doing.
Feel free to ask for clarification. What do you want to know more about the skill?
Apologies. You requested your top speed, and I calculated it, but I forgot to include it in the post. At your fastest, you were moving at steady run - the sort of pace you'd set for a long-distance cross-country race, maybe six or seven miles per hour.
So with practice this skill could estimate more accurately by marking the interval between minutes (of the hourglass) right?
I'm not sure what you mean. I expect with practice you will both get better readings and get better at estimating times base on those readings (two separate things), but I don't know what you're getting at with the metaphorical marking of the metaphorical hourglass.
Feel free to ask for clarification. What do you want to know more about the skill?
Well, I need to know its bias, parameters, and sit-mod, but I'll settle for a description from you of what the skill does and how it does it.
I understand that you intend to discover how to replicate your mishap with the trees. I seem to recall that your prior attempts at this didn't provide much information - you could recall that it happened, and you confirmed that it was a telekinetic force (similar to your force bar, but not identical) that cut down the trees, but you couldn't find out how you caused that to happen.
What I need to know is, what does this skill do? Does it look through time (yes/no), or only gather information from the present? What does it examine in order to furnish you with information? Is there mind-reading involved? Does the skill itself provide you with the conclusion you want to reach, or does it only give you evidence from which to draw a conclusion on your own? What information does it gather?
That kind of thing will help me, and it's sort of what I meant by "tell me more about this." I'll be more specific in the future.
___
No comment on the estimates of accuracy.
The acceleration and deceleration saves about half the time I need to get to the goal if I walk there normally.
It's closer to a third than a half, actually, but the rest of your math is right. Even though I skipped the last roll, I didn't skip the time a roll would have taken.
1 mile per hour = 88 feet per minute
6 to 7 miles per hour = 528 to 616 feet per minute
That is approximately 161 to 188 meters per minute or 3 meters per second.
That is about a quarter of human top speed that compete in Olympics.
If that is the maximum speed when I try to go to the tree stub, that would mean my normal walking is about one meter per second. Or do you mean the maximum speed for the skill?
I expect with practice you will both get better readings and get better at estimating times base on those readings
I mean the latter but the former would also help greatly in estimating it.
I need to know its bias, parameters, and sit-mod
Hmmm... Let me try. If I am not mistaken it would probably be 11@10 Retrocognitive with clairsentient variant skill. The parameter is 8 minutes of concentration needed. The sit-mod is +40 because of the concentration but maybe lower or higher because of other penalty or bonus.
Does it look through time
The skill does look at the past so the answer is yes. The concentration period however uses the information of the present (that is related to the past) so that the past would look more clear.
What does it examine in order to furnish you with information?
Anything that is related to the event but the more things that I touch or use my retrocognitive skills that is related to the event then the better the skill is.
Is there mind-reading involved?
When trying to read my own mind through History of Person, I got the below:
Here you see that there was an uncontrolled power surge from within yourself that burst outward as an edged force and brought down a swath of the wood, which is not really more than you already knew; you can't see how it happened.
If this is the case, then mind-reading would not work too well. What I really wanted is how to replicate the effects so probably clairsentience would work better.
Does the skill itself provide you with the conclusion you want to reach, or does it only give you evidence from which to draw a conclusion on your own?
I think I am gathering the evidence by using my other retrocognitive skills so this skill can provide me with the conclusion I wanted to reach. If it gives me further evidence to draw a conclusion on my own, what evidence would that be? If that evidence can help me to replicate the effect then that would be similar to providing me the conclusion I wanted to reach. In other words, the end result would be the same but the former is direct and the latter is indirect way of achieving it. I will choose the direct way of achieving it but I am also interested in the indirect way of achieving it so I will probably try that later if I still have some time to spare.
What information does it gather?
The information from related past events including related information from my other skills that could form the conclusion on how to replicate the effect of the event.
It's closer to a third than a half, actually, but the rest of your math is right. Even though I skipped the last roll, I didn't skip the time a roll would have taken.
I know that it would be lower than half but not sure how low it is which is why I use "about". Skipping or not skipping the time the last roll would have taken would make the difference to the calculation which is why I am not sure whether I have to add a minute more or not in the first place.
If for example the starting time is 10:00, pick which of the following is true:
a) Did I accelerate constantly from 0 to 1.24 walking speed from 10:00 to 10:01?
b) Did I accelerate instantly from 0 to 1.24 walking speed at 10:00?
c) Did I accelerate instantly from 0 to 1 walking speed at 10:00 then accelerate constantly from 1 to 1.24 walking speed from 10:00 to 10:01?
d) Did I accelerate constantly from 0 to 1 walking speed from 10:00 to 10:01 then accelerate instantly from 1 to 1.24 walking speed at 10:01?
e) Did I accelerate instantly from 0 to 1 walking speed at 10:00 then accelerate instantly from 1 to 1.24 walking speed at 10:01?
f) Did I accelerate constantly from 0 to 1 walking speed from 10:00 to 10:01 then accelerate constantly from 1 to 1.24 walking speed from 10:01 to 10:02?
At one minute before the goal, did I save (9.2-6)/9.2 = 3.2/9.2 or about 35% of the time?
At the goal, did I save (10.2-7)/10.2 = 3.2/10.2 or about 31% of the time?
I assumed your walking speed to be roughly 3mph, 264'/min, 1.3m/s; your peak speed on this trip was thus roughly 2.9 m/s, 589'/min, 6.69 mph. None of that mattered to the calculation of time saved because I measured the distance in "minutes' walk", so my units of speed were minutes per minute. By that reckoning, your peak speed was 2.23 min/min. Your spirit form's top possible speed has yet to be discovered in play.
Mathematically, (b), but your experience was probably closer to (c); anything more complex than (b) is more math than it's worth. At the table, I wouldn't even pull out my calculator, I'd just estimate it.
So you want a skill that identifies, in detail, the cause of a specific event or circumstance (i.e., than answers the question of "how was this done?") and which, additionally, allows your clairsentient perception (through time) of that cause as it occurred. Is that correct? Anything to add or take away?
(Oh, and the skill requires the user to be in the location of the event or circumstance he is investigating and to spend at least eight minutes in (required, dedicated) high concentration. Yes? No other requirements?)
Forgive my intrusion.
Maxx, I know what you're trying to do with this exploration of the botch event, but I'm not at all certain what you expect to learn that you do not already know.
You know that somehow you released a surge of mental power greater than anything you ever have controlled, probably greater than anything you could control given your present levels of ability. That means you have untapped resources of power, but you probably do not have the tools needed to guide that power in a controlled manner, so the best you can hope is that you would be able to release the power in random bursts that might do something like what you hope or might kill everything anywhere near you, including yourself.
You know that the particular surge of mental energy took a form similar to your force bar, but for three parameters. One is that it was in motion; the second is that it had an edge capable of doing significant damage; the third is that it was relatively short-lived. It thus makes sense that you could use concepts similar to those on which you built your force bar, adjusting them in ways you have yet to determine, to create a movable force bar with a sharp edge.
If you're looking for how to make those adjustments, the only answer you're going to get from the botch is "a force came out of you that happened to have this shape and do this damage". You did not consciously or unconsciously give it that shape, and thus there is no information on how it got it. It is something like if you found an icicle and thought that it would be useful to have a knife that shape, and then attempted to learn how to make an ice knife that shape by studying the icicle: the existence of the icicle tells you that the shape is possible and even useful, but it doesn't tell you how to duplicate the shape.
-----
Concerning acceleration, the math is done as if you increased on jerks, once per minute; the experience might or might not be different from that. However, the "maximum velocity" you reached was the result of uneven acceleration for however long it took for you to reach "the midpoint", after which you reversed the process and began uneven deceleration toward the endpoint. As with any continuous or intermittent engine in a relatively friction-free environment, had you continued accelerating you would have achieved a greater velocity, and it would have taken you longer to decelerate. However, the rates of acceleration and deceleration are not consistent enough to predict.
Mechanically, acceleration/deceleration rolls are made once per minute; you start at "walking speed", which is a defined velocity category in Multiverser rules, and not necessarily the speed at which a sprite (or any particular human) walks.
I hope this helps.
--M. J. Young
Note: cross-posted with Scott.
--M. J. Young
(1.3m/s)(60s)(10 minutes) = 780m of distance
If 780m is meter viewed from the perspective of sprite, then if it is converted to human perspective it will be about 780m/6 = 130m.
Did I travel that far?
Is the clearing really that large?
You know that somehow you released a surge of mental power greater than anything you ever have controlled, probably greater than anything you could control given your present levels of ability.
Which is a good reason to know how I released such a surge in the first place. If I know why it happen in the first place then probably I can learn how to control it.
You did not consciously or unconsciously give it that shape, and thus there is no information on how it got it.
Which is why I said mind reading would not work well.
the existence of the icicle tells you that the shape is possible and even useful, but it doesn't tell you how to duplicate the shape.
The skill that I try to develop this time if analogized in the form of the icicle example will tell me how the icicle is formed which may include how the water drips and freezes to form that icicle. If I am at fault for the incident then it would at least have to come from me and knowing how it can be replicated is why I develop the skill.
So you want a skill that identifies, in detail, the cause of a specific event or circumstance (i.e., than answers the question of "how was this done?") and which, additionally, allows your clairsentient perception (through time) of that cause as it occurred. Is that correct?
the skill requires the user to be in the location of the event or circumstance he is investigating and to spend at least eight minutes in (required, dedicated) high concentration. Yes?
Yes to both counts. I think I do not have anything to add unless you can think of one.
Thank you to both of you for the clarification.
I recalled the incident of the tree-felling occurring some distance away from your home tree - obviously not too far away because you're still a toddler, but far enough away that the other sprites didn't know it had happened until the two of you came back and told them. If you can point to a post indicating otherwise, I'll take it into consideration.
posting interrupted, apologies. Will address the rest of your post as soon as I may.
My chaining attempt post did provide some information about the clearing.
I would guess the clearing to be about fifteen feet across, the tree to be off-center within it, so he's probably ten feet from the edge.
So the distance to the edge that I wanted to go would be at most fifteen feet if I sleep at the other end of the edge. That would be less than 5m. If I walk at 1.3m/s, I would get there in less than 5 seconds. If that 1.3m/s is viewed from sprite perspective then I would get there in less than 30 seconds. If I take about 10 minutes walking speed to the goal which is about 10 feet then my speed viewed from human perspective is about 1 ft/minute or 0.2 inch/s.
Well, gee, that would have been useful information to have. If the area is that close, there's no meaning to an attempt to accelerate and decelerate evenly when traveling there; you would arrive before you'd properly begun. I assumed from your statement that the distance was sufficient to justify such an attempt. Apparently that was not the case.
I'm thinking that either you misremembered the distance initially, or I didn't understand what you meant when you made the statement of intent. In fact, I see looking back that you asked me how far it was, so I guess it was the former. Either way, I'm inclined to say the whole thing with speeding up and slowing down in Spirit travel never happened - you didn't do it because you didn't need to, you have no knowledge of how it works, and you didn't get the skill mark. Let me know if you agree.
I need to get ready for work, so I'll post again to resolve you new pre-cog skill.
Well, gee, that would have been useful information to have.
I thought that you have known about that because it did relate to the chaining topic and even if I want to tell you about it, the thought of doing so seems to slip through my mind (but there have been a nagging feeling that I should tell you something). I apologize for not telling you sooner.
I'm thinking that either you misremembered the distance initially, or I didn't understand what you meant when you made the statement of intent.
Neither. I just did not know the walking speed of Morach in spirit mode which is why I asked in the first place. When you tell me the walking speed, I felt there is something weird about it.
Let me know if you agree.
Yes, let me adjust Spirit travel back to 1@1. If I travel at 1.3m/s, then I would get there in less than a minute. Can I detect any changes to the reading of my detect Psi skill when I got there or did it give the same reading as before?
I need to get ready for work, so I'll post again to resolve you new pre-cog skill.
Thank you. There is a nagging feeling to ask you about your work (probably just normal curiosity) but let me leave it at that.
Let me also clarify that the tree and the clearing are the private home of Morach's family--his father Morani and mother Lelach live there with him and no one else. Morani in essence "goes to work" every day, which is usually hunting, so Morach and Lelach were alone because they are usually alone there.
--M. J. Young
Don't worry about the apologies, Maxx. Ultimately, it was my responsibility know. You could have volunteered the information, true; I also could have asked for it. Not your fault.
For the record, I'd guess a sprite would walk (when they bother to walk) significantly more slowly than 1.3 m/s, given their shorter stride. "Walking speed" in this instance, as MJ said, is a velocity category defined in the rulebook, not any particular entity's walking speed.
Yes, let me adjust Spirit travel back to 1@1. If I travel at 1.3m/s, then I would get there in less than a minute.
Agreed.
Can I detect any changes to the reading of my detect Psi skill when I got there or did it give the same reading as before?
Yes, you detect changes; you detect changes constantly, continuously, and gradually. However, the change over the course of the handful of seconds it takes your spirit form to cross the clearing is barely perceptible, and is certainly not significant enough to alter your prior estimates (roughly forty minutes left in spirit form and roughly twenty minutes of danger sense).
I will touch a tree stub (that became that way because of my power) and try to figure out how I have created such a power in the first place by concentrating 8 minutes on related events.
You concentrate, and after a time you feel ready. You cast your consciousness back through time . . .
It is daytime, and you can see yourself sitting on the ground - not yourself as you remember from before, but your sprite-self, "Morach." You experience the entire scene as though you had been standing there; it's somewhat eerie. You see "yourself" concentrating - perhaps a little distracted or unfocused - and then the almost comical look of shock that crosses your babyish face as a sheet of shimmering pink arcs through the trees in front of you, gone almost before you see it. The next several moments are filled with creaking, falling, and crashing.
The experience lasts until the last of the felled trees has settled and stopped; then your mind returns to the present.
When the vision fades, you realize that you have become aware of several things:
* You were the sprite you saw (that is, it really was you, and not anyone or any thing or any effect that merely seemed to be you to the senses);
* He was a self-taught, novice psionicist attempting to explore the limits of a new technique - a very basic force generative;
* The trees were sliced down by a wide, short-lived, fast-moving, bladed force;
* He was the source of that force;
* He produced it entirely by accident, unleashing latent power (which he would not have been able to access intentionally had he tried) in an uncontrolled fashion;
* The nature of the accident was to a large degree random - or rather, the outcome depended heavily on factors outside of the actor's control (aspects of the configuration of the subconscious mind, the exact quantity of reserve energy unleashed, the shape of the actor's perception at the time);
You do not become aware of the details of those factors beyond a fuzzy impression that they are many and interact in complex ways. You have the sensation that the knowledge was out there, attainable, but that it slipped through your fumbling grasp.
You do learn enough, however, to know that to attempt to repeat this incident in order to produce the same effect again would be like, having once shattered a glass by knocking it off a table, attempting to produce a second set of identical shards of glass by knocking a second glass off the table in exactly the same way.
That is not to say that the effect cannot be replicated on purpose; it's just that doing a thing on purpose and re-enacting an accident are entirely different kettles of fish.
Edit: you would estimate roughly thirty minutes remaining in Spirit Form and roughly fifteen minutes of danger sense.
____
I rolled a 22 on Maxx's learning attempt before figuring the sit-mod, but I decided that was probably a success. Now let's add it up: he's including Full Sensory Presence for -10, and I've decided it's an 11@6 Perceive Cause (not an 11@7 Perceive Chain), but I'm throwing on a -10 for his emphasis on the process involved in whatever the cause ends up having been. This doesn't seem like a skill that would be instantaneous at baseline, so I'm calling eight minutes +30 for three doublings, for a total sit-mod of +10. No math necessary, 22 succeeds, so we have
1@1 Examine Cause P11@6 requires eight minutes uninterrupted high concentration in the presence of the effect whose cause is to be investigated, provides knowledge as to what the immediate cause was and how it happened; also allows retrocognitive sensory presence "during" the event, +10 SM
I'll also note that relative success was low and the user is an amateur. In light of that, the detail I provided might be considered generous by some.
I'd guess a sprite would walk (when they bother to walk) significantly more slowly than 1.3 m/s, given their shorter stride.
I guess that would be 1.3/6 m/s or about 0.22 m/s right?
"Walking speed" in this instance, as MJ said, is a velocity category defined in the rulebook, not any particular entity's walking speed.
If sprite likes to fly rather than walk then would the "walking speed" in this instance be the normal flying speed?
I like how you describe the "incident".
aspects of the configuration of the subconscious mind, the exact quantity of reserve energy unleashed, the shape of the actor's perception at the time
I have to learn how to control these factors to replicate it. I think it is enough to have the ability and knowledge to replicate it even if I do not plan to ever use it. If I ever replicate the effect of the "incident", I would call that "A blast from the past". The subconscious mind could probably be controlled by hypnosis, the reserve energy could be stored and the shape of perception could also be matched to that time if there is enough information to do it.
You do not become aware of the details of those factors beyond a fuzzy impression that they are many and interact in complex ways.
I wonder if there is a way to clarify those details or do I need more practice with my new technique to unearth more information about the "incident".
You have the sensation that the knowledge was out there, attainable, but that it slipped through your fumbling grasp.
That was really close. I wonder if I can copy the complex data to a (Psi) memory device so I can examine the variable carefully.
to know that to attempt to repeat this incident in order to produce the same effect again would be like, having once shattered a glass by knocking it off a table, attempting to produce a second set of identical shards of glass by knocking a second glass off the table in exactly the same way.
I just thought of this analogy the other day so I was a bit surprised when you mentioned it. What I want to add to the analogy is I wanted to know how to do that. I know it is a complicated process which is why I am happy when I got to take a peek on the process. Maybe I will know how to replicate it after examining all the variable involved.
re-enacting an accident
That is what I am planning to do by simulating the event inside of my mind so that I could understand how to replicate the accident just like how an investigator simulates how an accident happen to find the cause.
Next, I would go to the last place I have seen my mother sew using the metal needle.
I would concentrate for 8 minutes by remembering when I last saw it then try "retrocognitive scrying" to follow where the needle goes so I can locate its current location.
If I succeed in locating the metal needle I will touch it and try History of Object but with 4 minutes of concentration time.
*****
it's an 11@6 Perceive Cause (not an 11@7 Perceive Chain)
What is the difference between the two?
In light of that, the detail I provided might be considered generous by some.
Thank you for your generosity. The detail is quite entertaining actually especially the part where you describe how Morach face looks like during the event.
I'm dropping in because of the first of the three points I'm covering, but including the other two since I'm posting anyway, which I probably would not have done otherwise.
If sprite likes to fly rather than walk then would the "walking speed" in this instance be the normal flying speed?
I think you didn't understand what we said.
For convenience in defining skills particularly in the bod bias area, Multiverser creates a set of six "Velocity Range Categories". They are given as "Walking Speeds" of two to seven miles per hour, "Running Speeds" of four to twenty-five miles per hour, "Traffic Speeds" of twenty to one hundred miles per hour, "Flight Speeds" of eighty-five to two thousand fifty miles per hour, "Escape Velocity" of six hundred eighty five miles per hour and up, and "Speed of Light" at six-point-seven billion miles per hour. (The table also gives per minute and per second distances for each category.) This allows us to define a skill as "Run at Running Speeds" and then give it a specific velocity, allowing you to improve the velocity or for there to be multiple skilled characters who have this skill, and distinguish it from "Run at Flight Speeds" which would be a skill reserved for superhero characters like The Flash. Thus the designation "Walking Speeds" when applied to your skills has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with your character's personal movement rate in any format, but that it defines a category. Probably you will develop a "Fly at Walking Speeds" skill soon enough, but that neither defines how fast other "at walking speeds" skills move you nor exactly how fast you can or do fly. Probably you will also develop a "Fly at Running Speeds" skill, but perhaps anomalously never develop a "Fly at Flight Speeds" skill (I'm not certain of that). In any case, there is no connection whatsoever between how fast a sprite moves in any mode and how fast you move in spirit mode, other than that both might be described by the velocity range category "walking speeds".
That is what I am planning to do by simulating the event inside of my mind so that I could understand how to replicate the accident just like how an investigator simulates how an accident happen to find the cause.
Yes, but an accident investigator is not attempting to reproduce the accident in the real world, and does not expect that he would be able to do so.
Let's suppose that there is an accident in which the driver of a convertible missed a curve and headlonged into a tree, and the passenger in the back seat was thrown upward and impaled on the stump of a broken branch fifteen feet in the air. What an accident investigator is able to do is determine approximately how fast the car was moving when it hit the tree, and to some degree what the forces were on each of the bodies involved. What he cannot do is put two more similar bodies in the same positions in an identical convertible and cause it to be driven at the same angles and velocities such that it hits the same tree the same way and impales the rear seat passenger on the same branch.
That's what you're trying to do. You accidentally released a cutting force into the woods, and you're trying to reproduce the factors that caused that to happen. You can't. If you are just slightly off in one of the billions of factors relevant to the exact form of the accident, you will instead cause an explosion with you as the epicenter, or release a wave of non-physical psychic energy that fries the brains of every creature within a mile, or turns all living matter within a hundred yards to carbon crystal. What you released was by definition an uncontrolled and uncontrollable surge of energy which happened to take a specific form. You cannot intentionally duplicate that level of energy release or that specific form, any more than you can cause another person to be impaled on the same branch by attempting to reproduce the same accident.
it's an 11@6 Perceive Cause (not an 11@7 Perceive Chain)What is the difference between the two?
A Perceive Cause looks at the single relationship between event B and event A; that is, it finds the single proximate cause of event B by identifying event A; a Perceive Chain looks at event J and sees how it was caused primarily by event I flowing from event H back to event A, and probably also how event K flowed from J into L. It is a much more difficult and time-consuming retrocognitive skill which gives a great deal more information about the primary flow of events, although it rarely gives more than cursory information about contributory events. (E.g., even I might have resulted in event J because of event 2, but event 2 is not a primary cause so its involvement is only cursorily recognized, and the causes of event 2 are not part of the chain discovered.)
--M. J. Young
Thank you for your generosity. The detail is quite entertaining actually especially the part where you describe how Morach face looks like during the event.Oh, that? That's not what I meant; you got that for free. Description of that sort is fun. I was referring to the level of detail in the information you received concerning the factors going in to the accident when I said I was being generous. I thought about just telling you it was an accident and leaving it at that, instead of talking about "latent energy" and "shape of perception" and all that jazz.
Next, I would go to the last place I have seen my mother sew using the metal needle.
Any idea where that would be? (I ask because I don't know, and if you don't know either I'll have to make it up.)
I would concentrate for 8 minutes by remembering when I last saw it then try "retrocognitive scrying" to follow where the needle goes so I can locate its current location.
That'll be a new skill, right?
___
I wasn't going to come out and say it was impossible, but yeah, MJ's right - what you want is, practically, impossible. That doesn't mean you can't keep trying, of course - I'm sure you'll do and learn interesting things along the way - but it does mean the effort is ultimately doomed.
By the way, I'm treating statements that begin with "I wonder" as notes to yourself, to which I'm not obligated to respond. If those statements are directed at me, let me know so I can start addressing them when you include them in future posts.
Nothing to roll this time, only questions to ask.