Thank you for the clarification about "Velocity Range Categories" and the difference between Perceive Cause and Perceive Chain.
What he cannot do is put two more similar bodies in the same positions in an identical convertible and cause it to be driven at the same angles and velocities such that it hits the same tree the same way and impales the rear seat passenger on the same branch.
He can make a computer simulation to model the incident which is what I am trying to do but in my case I am trying to model it in my mind. By knowing the factor that cause the accident to happen, I can take precaution against them.
That's what you're trying to do. You accidentally released a cutting force into the woods, and you're trying to reproduce the factors that caused that to happen. If you are just slightly off in one of the billions of factors relevant to the exact form of the accident, you will instead cause an explosion with you as the epicenter, or release a wave of non-physical psychic energy that fries the brains of every creature within a mile, or turns all living matter within a hundred yards to carbon crystal.
That is the reason why I have not try to reproduce it outside of my mind or virtual reality. I just wanted to know the factor that lead to the event and why not the other event. Why does the cutting happen instead of explosion, brain fry, carbonization and others mishaps? Those factors are what I am interested in. Using your accident analogy, I wanted to know how the passenger got impaled that way and why not the other way. What is the position of the tree that made the passenger get impaled that way and why not the other way? The answers to those kind of questions are what I am searching for.
I thought about just telling you it was an accident and leaving it at that, instead of talking about "latent energy" and "shape of perception" and all that jazz.
That was the detail I am talking about but I just expand it to include the description too.
Any idea where that would be? (I ask because I don't know, and if you don't know either I'll have to make it up.)
I am not sure but probably near the tree or the place where Lelach put something for Morach to sit so that he can watch her sew.
I would concentrate for 8 minutes by remembering when I last saw it then try "retrocognitive scrying" to follow where the needle goes so I can locate its current location.That'll be a new skill, right?
Yes. Do you have any question about it that you want me to clarify?
*****
I wasn't going to come out and say it was impossible, but yeah, MJ's right - what you want is, practically, impossible.
To replicate it in the same reality would be close to impossible but that is what some people said about lightning does not strike at the same place twice (which is actually possible).
I'm sure you'll do and learn interesting things along the way - but it does mean the effort is ultimately doomed.
If you meant recreating the incident in real life then maybe but I am sure there are ways to recreate the event in simulation. Even in real life there would be a way to replicate the effect with the use of time travel or alter reality but I would not want to mess space or time doing that. At least, not in the current condition.
By the way, I'm treating statements that begin with "I wonder" as notes to yourself, to which I'm not obligated to respond.
Yes, that is right. Those statements are reminders of what I am going to do next so that is why I write it. Feel free to ignore or comment on any statement that you like.
Do you have any question about [the new retrocognitive scrying skill] that you want me to clarify?
Sure,
* are there any senses which are not included?
* how does the skill find the point in time you are looking for? That is, which attributes of the target time are used to define the point in time you intend to observe, and what information do you need to have in the present in order perform the skill successfully?
* do you retain your present senses while viewing the past (perceiving both simultaneously, similar to having two monitors hooked up to your computer), or do your present senses shut down for the duration of the skill?
* does the scrying take place in "real time" - that is, one second in the present elapses while you watch one second of the past? This is what I'd expect, so if not, I'll need a very careful explanation of whatever is true instead of this.
It might also help to tell me some things this skill can't do, or perhaps some things this skill could do but that aren't what you're doing now.
are there any senses which are not included?
I think the skill would include as much sense as possible to search for the metal needle.
If you think adding more sense would not be beneficial to search for the metal needle then you could limit the skill to only include the sense that may be beneficial to it but by default Morach would use all sense that he have to search for the metal needle.
how does the skill find the point in time you are looking for?
which attributes of the target time are used to define the point in time you intend to observe
what information do you need to have in the present in order perform the skill successfully?
The skill find the point in time by matching it with the memory I have during the concentration period. The information that I need is the memory of the metal needle and where I have seen it so I can go to that place and start the skill.
The memory that I would choose for this skill is the last time I have seen the metal needle which I think when Lelach have finish with the sewing and either:
1) She keep the needle before coming back to pick me up.
2) Leave the needle there then keep it later.
3) Go to keep the needle and bringing me together (not recommended to have such sharp object with a child but possible if she know how to handle it).
4) Other situation that I have not taken into account.
do your present senses shut down for the duration of the skill?
I think it would to eliminate any disturbances. It may look like someone who is in deep thought or concentrating on something.
does the scrying take place in "real time" - that is, one second in the present elapses while you watch one second of the past?
Although by default the skill will watch the event in "real time", it could also rewind, fast forward, pause and such just like watching something you have recorded before. It is also designed to follow the object that is recalled during the concentration period.
tell me some things this skill can't do
I am not sure what this skill can't do because I have not try to do "it" yet with the skill. Maybe I will try to do "it" with this skill in the future so I can confirm what this skill can or can't do. I will probably try to see if it works to track other person to see whether that works. I would also try to see if the skill can change target in the past but I think that would be unlikely but I have to try it to confirm whether that works of not unless you tell me that it would not work that way.
perhaps some things this skill could do but that aren't what you're doing now.
The part that is about "the rewind, forward, pause and such just like watching something you have recorded before".
Do you have any other questions regarding the skill?
For the most part, that's quite informative, and I'm almost ready to proceed. However:
The skill find the point in time by matching it with the memory I have during the concentration period. The information that I need is the memory of the metal needle and where I have seen it so I can go to that place and start the skill.
I'm still not clear on what this means. Does this mean you cannot initiate scrying on a point in time and space of which you have no memory? (And do you have to be there to launch the skill?) Or can you simply be in a place and scry X units back in time, and the memory is how know how far back to scry? Or something else I'm missing?
This is the kind of thing I mean when I say "tell me something it can't do." I understand that you can't predict every contingency in which you might want to use the skill, and I understand that your character is new to psionics himself, but you can most definitely tell me a few things this skill can't do. I'll start you off:
* It can't look into the future. (Or can it? Because I need to know now.)
* It can't pick through history to show you some scene you have no specifc knowledge of based only on your description of general details (i.e., "I want to scry on some major battle in some war in the past," with nothing more to go on than that)
If all I know is what a skill can do, I don't how it's different from Alter Reality (Do Anything). In a way, a skill is defined by its restrictions. I want to know what you already know this skill can't do because it is this skill.
Does this mean you cannot initiate scrying on a point in time and space of which you have no memory? (And do you have to be there to launch the skill?)
Yes to both counts.
The memory of past could also be retrieved from my other retrocognitive skills even if I am not there during that time. For this skill, I have to be there to launch the skill although there may be other skill that can launch from anywhere.
can you simply be in a place and scry X units back in time, and the memory is how know how far back to scry?
I do not think that is how this skill works. If that is the case then the skill can be launched from anywhere even if that place have no relation to the metal needle.
It can't look into the future.
The skill name is retrocognitive scrying so I think it could not look into the future but it could see the present (like you see a live broadcast on television which lags behind just a little) by fast forwarding the past to the present.
It can't pick through history to show you some scene you have no specifc knowledge of based only on your description of general details
That is right. I cannot look for just any metal needle but the metal needle that I have the memory of through experience or my other retrocognitive skills.
In a way, a skill is defined by its restrictions. I want to know what you already know this skill can't do because it is this skill.
There are a lot of things this skill cannot do so I could not possibly list all of them so you could ask what do you think that the skill could not do and I will tell whether that is true or not.
The below is an example why I have a hard time defining what a skill cannot do.
The skill probably could not alter the past.
(Well, not without activating other skill that can alter the past that may get some help from this skill.
What if the skill botch and does something that it should not do?
What if what I think this skill could do is only an illusion and the skill could do anything?
What if there is also chaotic force within this skill which would make it do something that it supposedly cannot do?)
If you take the above example seriously, then maybe you should try the Turkey curse.
A lot of the things that may hint of what the skill can or cannot do can be derive from the skill description before. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
I think we'll continue the discussion of skill design in general in another thread, if at all.
I think this is what we have:
1@ Retrocognitive Scrying P11@9 requires eight minutes uninterrupted high concentration, first-hand knowledge of the target time and place (memory or other retrocognitive), and physical presence of the user in the target place; observation is through full sensory presence controllable as per the P3@10 skill of that name; observation occurs in real time, but the apparent rate of time passage observed may be sped or slowed (with additional skill checks); user's senses shut down for the duration of the skill (RS=minutes, strenuous chaining), +30 SM
One last question before I roll and we get on with it. The skill as written assumes you use all of your senses; you're using all of your senses this time, and they will all shut down in your present self. Is it your intent that you could, on a later use of this skill, omit certain senses from your retrocognitive scrying, retaining those senses in the present at the expense of not having them in the past? Or, is this skill all-or-nothing, and being selective with your senses would require a new, separate skill?
Is it your intent that you could, on a later use of this skill, omit certain senses from your retrocognitive scrying, retaining those senses in the present at the expense of not having them in the past?
I think so because there might be a situation where I need to leave some of my senses in the present but the default is using all of my senses.
is this skill all-or-nothing, and being selective with your senses would require a new, separate skill?
This might also be the case because of partial sensory presence may define a new, separate skill but it may also be a new use for the skill. In the end, it is your call.
1@ Retrocognitive Scrying P11@9 requires eight minutes uninterrupted high concentration, first-hand knowledge of the target time and place (memory or other retrocognitive), and physical presence of the user in the target place; observation is through full sensory presence controllable as per the P3@10 skill of that name; observation occurs in real time, but the apparent rate of time passage observed may be sped or slowed (with additional skill checks); user's senses shut down for the duration of the skill (RS=minutes, strenuous chaining), +30 SM
That is very informative but I do have some questions about it.
How do you calculate how fast the rate of time is controlled?
Does this mean that I can fast forward it to a certain speed with a single roll or do you treat it like acceleration of spirit travel (which will show very little difference even if the roll is successful)?
This might also be the case because of partial sensory presence may define a new, separate skill but it may also be a new use for the skill. In the end, it is your call.
Ordinarily, yes, but this time I'm making it your call. The reason for this is that I've given you +10 for shutting down your senses, but the ability to choose which senses you shut down from use to use based on the situation lessens the value of that restriction.*
If the skill were designed such that your present senses were not shut down, I would allow you to pick and choose which senses you included on a use-by-use basis without penalty, and the first time you varied which senses were included would gain you a skill mark. However, because the decision of whether or not this is possible will affect the sit-mod you receive from shutting down your senses (and, potentially, whether or not you successfully learn the skill), I'll letting you decide which way the skill works.
How do you calculate how fast the rate of time is controlled?
One successful roll results in the new rate. Any further change requires another roll. Relative success would determine, in a general way, how precisely you adjusted the rate to your target rate and/or how good your reaction time was (if reaction time mattered, such as if you were slowing the rate in response to something you observed).
_
*(The total sit-mod shows +30 because I've included -10 for the ability to adjust the rate of observation. That's a good deal, really, because that ability will reduced your need for chaining, and the prep time means that chaining would need to be strenuous.)
However, because the decision of whether or not this is possible will affect the sit-mod you receive from shutting down your senses (and, potentially, whether or not you successfully learn the skill), I'll letting you decide which way the skill works.
I think if you rule partial sensory presence as a new separate skill it would be easier to define the skill so I will go with that.
One successful roll results in the new rate. Any further change requires another roll. Relative success would determine, in a general way, how precisely you adjusted the rate to your target rate and/or how good your reaction time was
Thank you for the clarification.
The last you recall seeing the metal needle was during the winter - your mother was using it to pass time in the tree hollow. You're currently on the ground, but have expressed an intention to move to the location of the memory before attempting the retrocognitive scry; how do you intend to do so?
__
I had already rolled for skill learning before I realized this was a potential obstacle . . .
Also, apologies for the delay.
You're currently on the ground, but have expressed an intention to move to the location of the memory before attempting the retrocognitive scry; how do you intend to do so?
I am in spirit mode remember?
I already have try to move upward and downward in spirit mode so I know it is possible to do so.
The journey to the tree would take about a minute if I go directly to the destination (which means just "walking" through the bark of the tree if the entry is on the other side) so I do not think it would be a potential problem.
Next, I would go to the last place I have seen my mother sew using the metal needle.
I have also said the above in the previous post but you probably miss or forgot about it considering we have a lot of posts in between them.
I deny it. I forgot nothing, save that we had already established your spirit form's capacity for vertical motion. Had we not, that might have presented a problem for you. Since we have (and thank you for the reminder, I loathe digging through the thread for things like that), on with the game.
Leaving your parents sleeping in the clearing below, you ascend toward the hollow. There is a slight gust of wind, and you feel the cool breeze as it passes over you, but something is odd about it. After a moment you realize that you did not feel the hairs on your skin stand up in response to the chill; you lack both, and the absence of that element of the experience rendered it briefly unfamiliar.
The bark is rough as you pass through it, and the interior of the hollow is dark. You begin to concentrate on your memories, and on the past, and on the flow of time . . .
There is light in the hollow. It is dim light, not illuminating much beyond its sources: three sprites, one very young (perhaps less than a year old). You recognize your father, who is watching the small child trace patterns on the wall with a blade of grass, and your mother, who is seated against the opposite wall, knitting. One needle is smooth, polished wood; the other is metal, flashing occasionally as it catches the light from her body.
The baby writes, looking very serious. The man watches idly. The needles click and clack, rhythmically.
. . . now what?
__
The roll was 28, not high enough to need to crunch the numbers (even though I already had). Adding the following to the sheet:
1@1 Retrocognitive Scrying P11@9 requires eight minutes uninterrupted high concentration, first-hand knowledge of the target time and place (memory or other retrocognitive), and physical presence of the user in the target place; observation is through full sensory presence controllable as per the P3@10 skill of that name; observation occurs in real time, but the apparent rate of time passage observed may be sped or slowed (with additional skill checks); user's senses shut down for the duration of the skill (RS=minutes, strenuous chaining), +30 SM
apologies for the delay.
Do not worry about it.
thank you for the reminder, I loathe digging through the thread for things like that
You are welcome. If you are not sure of something you can ask me and I will try to dig through the thread to find it.
There is a slight gust of wind, and you feel the cool breeze as it passes over you
I think it feel more like the wind past right through me unless a spirit can cause wind resistance (or turbulence) thus can send a chill to anyone near it.
The bark is rough as you pass through it
Can I taste or smell the bark when I pass through it?
Lelach has several needles, and a few of them are metal, but most of them are bone. Metal needles are made by humans. There are a few sprites who trade with a few humans to get a few such things.
The above is what I get from digging the thread.
One needle is smooth, polished wood;
A wooden needle. I must say that I have forgotten about that. I wonder who makes that.
Fast forward until Lelach wants to change the location of the metal needle then follow the metal needle to where Lelach keeps it.
I think it feel more like the wind past right through me unless a spirit can cause wind resistance (or turbulence) thus can send a chill to anyone near it.
Actually, it's as I described. You do not cause a disturbance in the air, but you feel the wind as though it were passing over you.
Can I taste or smell the bark when I pass through it?
Smell, yes. Taste, no, not that you noticed.
How quickly do you want apparent time to pass while you're fast forwarding? Keep in mind that your reaction time is not zero, and you will need another skill check to slow apparent time back down to a rate suitable for observation of details.
You do not cause a disturbance in the air, but you feel the wind as though it were passing over you.
That is an interesting feeling.
I will fast forward it until I reach my limit that I can follow the metal needle but not too fast that I will lose track of it which means that if the metal needle does not move then I will fast forward it quickly and when it moves then I will slow things down. If I lose track of it then I will just rewind a little bit then go from there.
You feel as though you almost manage to adjust the apparent flow of time, but unfortunately, your efforts bear no fruit.
How long are you willing to wait for the scene to progress to the point where you obtain information (and do you intend to chain, if necessary)? Or do you have an alternate plan?
(You no longer have a read on your active psi skills or their durations.)
___
The retrocog scrying roll was 86, which given that hefty sit-mod is close enough to have to crunch. 1@10 BRA, 1@1 SAL, P12@ character bias and a +30 inherent sit-mod: 20 + 11 + x + 30, that's 61 plus the bias adjustment (twice the lesser of the character bias level or the world bias level), which could be at most +24 if the world bias were at least 12@; thus, Maxx's chance of success was at most 85. The 86 he rolls just barely fails, and it does so without obligating me to reveal the world bias behind the screens.
Maxx did not get an opportunity to chain the detect because it expired during the last minute of the preparatory period for his scrying (that is, about a minute ago), which is high concentration. I suppose I could have allowed an intuition check to notice, but why burden myself? I'm confident that he wouldn't have wanted to interrupt a skill learning attempt to re-up a background detection.
Short post, but there's little I can do about it. Thought I'd posted this earlier, actually . . .
Reactivate the continuous detect psi skill (8 minutes of concentration).
After that try to locate the metal needle.
If the location of the needle changed during that time and it could not be located then rewind and if the location still have not changed try to fast forward the time again.
You have almost completed the concentration for your detect when you suddenly have a premonition of immediate and terrible danger. It is not clear whether it is your body or your spirit which is threatened (or both), but it is clear that you will suffer dire consequences if you do not act swiftly.
Just to recap: you are in spirit form in the hollow of the winter tree. Your body lies helpess a few feet from the base of the tree, near your sleeping parents, and your present-time senses are currently non-functional due to your retrocog scrying. It is night, but the skies are clear and stars are out. If you have any questions about aspects of the situation that your character would reasonably know which haven't mattered yet (but do matter now), ask.
What actions are you taking?
_______
It may be easier for you to respond in-character before reading the behind-the-screens post. Fair warning.
I rolled a GE for how long the scene will continue before yielding useful information (24: as bad as anticipated), which I think will mean she'll be at this for a while yet. But let's roll for the the fast-forward: 100.
Eheeheehee.
Okay, that's a botch, but just to confirm, 20 + 11 + x (where x !>24) + 5 !> 60, minimum 4% chance to botch. It's a one hundred, the skill is high-concentration to activate, and he's got several advanced skills active already, so this should be a doozy of a botch list.
I'm back after consulting with another player (Paul, currently stalled in Riddle Me Hiss), and here's the list:
1. Brain burn
2. Perceptions trapped in the past (retrocognitive locked on)
3. Perceptions trapped in the past (perspective: past self)
4. Perceptions trapped in the past (perspective: other)
5. Spirit Form locked on
6. Delusion: No skills are active
7. Delusion: All skills are active
8. Trigger non-active skills
9. Psionic shockwave
10 Delusion: Terrible danger
There. I'm fairly well pleased with that, so let's have the roll:
10. I think we can have fun with this.
I will deactivate the retrocognitive skill and then I will deactivate spirit mode so I can go back to my body. I will then open my eyes to look around if there is any sign of danger around.
If there is something weird going on then I will react to it and if not I will go to sleep and try the spirit form the next day.
*****
I know that kind of botch would be fun. I wonder what would happen next.
Your spirit returns to your body as you pull your perceptions back to the present. You feel relief - apparently, either returning to your body or ending your retrocognition was sufficient to avert the immediate danger. You open your eyes and see your parents, sleeping peacefully. All is apparently well.
After a moment, the premonition returns, fiercer and more terrible than before. Whether this is a new danger or merely the old threat caught up with you, you cannot say, but you know you have only a brief time to act.
__
No roll necessary to end these skills; the spirit form description has the duration as "RS minutes or until terminated," which tells me he can indeed instantly return to his body, and clairsentience also works that way (by default).
Looks like I would not be sleeping peacefully tonight.
I would wake up and be on my guard for about 15 minutes. If it still persists after that then that means that something is terribly wrong with me because my precognitive danger sense should be deactivated by then. If it stops after 15 minutes then try to go to sleep.
If it still bothers me after 15 minutes then I probably am having some sort of night terror. The only thing to do then is to cry to alert my parents. If I am still having night terror after being comforted by them then I will do something then but first I wanted to know what is my parents reaction (whether they wake up to comfort me, ignore me or something else).
*****
Maximum roll of 100/100 and 10/10. Very lucky indeed. I have not seen that kind of roll in a long time. The above event (the botch) surely seems nostalgic for some reason.
You are not asleep, and haven't been. (You are, necessarily, conscious during Spirit Travel, and returning to your body "awakens" it.)
Describe "on your guard." Is this anything besides general alertness? Is there anything particular that you think the threat might be? (On guard against snakes is very different from on guard against hawks; answering this will help me figure out what you're ready for.)
Also, I'm not sure I've successfully communicated the situation. Your danger sense does not give warning of events that are more than a handful of seconds into the future - maybe a minute, tops. Whatever the danger is, you won't have to wait fifteen minutes to find out; it will manifest in moments.
I need to know which actions you're taking in the next sixty seconds and in what order. From there, I will be able to determine what you will have had time to execute before the threat you sense materializes.
_
Regardless, Maxx won't be surprised (in the mechanical, combat-rules sense of that word), thanks to his (delusion of) successful Danger Sense. I hate to slow the pace by posting again without rolling initiative, but I can't risk that Maxx simply misunderstood. It's possible that his response to looming doom really is to sit and wait for it, but if so I want confirmation.
Is this anything besides general alertness?
I think it is probably general awareness of surrounding but it might also include heightened awareness (which might activate automatically). Heighten awareness might also result from the perception of danger.
Is there anything particular that you think the threat might be?
I have not seen any dangerous animal so far (in this world) and if I do I wanted to contact them telepathically so I do not think that the danger may came from an animal. At least that is what Morach thinks.
I am more concerned of natural (or magic/psi related) disaster.
Considering that returning to my body have the effect to delay the threat, I think it would be of spiritual origin (or can effect the spirit) that came from above or near the winter tree so I will look at that direction.
I need to know which actions you're taking in the next sixty seconds and in what order.
If I seen or sense something weird from that direction then I will cry to alert my parents. I will probably move a little (during the observation time) to see if the feeling change if I move to a certain direction (which might say that I am out of harms way). I have to know the nature of threat before I can react so I will observe the situation before I will react to it.
*****
It's possible that his response to looming doom really is to sit and wait for it
Not much can be done without any clue of what the threat may be so Morach will probably wait and see/sense what the threat is.
You do have heightened awareness, don't you? Thanks for the reminder.
As you glance upward, you spot three dark shapes against the night sky, flowing down through the branches of your home tree like smoke. As they rapidly close the distance between them and your family, you spot twin pinpoints of red light in each shape, like eyes made from smoldering coals.
You cry out to alert your parents, and you see your mother begin to awaken, but it is obvious that the smoky figures will be upon you before she is fully aware.
__
Beginning combat time; we're on Step One, "each side announce intended actions and special defenses."
You do have heightened awareness, don't you? Thanks for the reminder.
Yes, I do. You are welcome.
you spot three dark shapes against the night sky
Three? This is bad. I need to keep them away from my family. I need a distraction to keep them away long enough until my family can escape.
By the way, that is the sort of creature that I imagine will come.
Let me try a firefly (that emit green or yellow light) swarm illusion. I will surround the dark shapes with a swarm of fireflies which is only an illusion. This illusion will active from 1 to 5 minutes and will follow the intended targets (which I hope will buy us some time). If my mother is awake I will point her to the dark shape direction and ask her if she can saw anything weird (or something red) beside the fireflies.
The dark shapes will stand out if they are surrounded by the fireflies because the fireflies that go behind them would suddenly disappear from sight. The fireflies could also distract the dark shapes by giving them additional targets which emit light.
If the dark shapes are still going towards our direction despite the swarm of fireflies illusion, I would probably try to attract their attention to something else.
Quick questions:
This is psionic, right, not magic?
From the fact that you want your mother to see them too, I'm inferring that these illusions will emit real light (as opposed to being figments of the imagination). Am I right?
Remind me of how well you can speak (physically, given your age).
___
(I don't have time for a full post until later tonight, but this short one should save us a day.)
This is psionic, right, not magic?
Yes, this is psionic.
From the fact that you want your mother to see them too, I'm inferring that these illusions will emit real light (as opposed to being figments of the imagination). Am I right?
Yes, I think it will emit light as opposed to illusion that is only in the figment of one's imagination (but an illusion could also appear in the mind of the person near the illusionist via suggestion). I wonder though if a delusion will be affected by an illusion but that probably depends from one person to another.
Remind me of how well you can speak (physically, given your age).
Well enough to be understood but have to speak slowly.
You focus on several points surrounding the decending wraiths and throw all of your mental strength behind creating illusory fireflies ex nihlio - something from nothing; pulling light from nowhere-at-all, or perhaps from somewhere else . . .
All at once, you feel a surge of power, as though a stuck door you'd been tugging on had finally pulled loose. Pinpoints of brilliant green light appear around the wraiths, who startle and slow.
You realize that the lights are not moving according to your will.
In almost the same instant, the lights begin to connect to each other with filiments of brilliant green, like the strings in a game of cat's-cradle, or a connect-the-dots puzzle completed by a child with no concept of the rules. Before the wraiths can flee the rapidly-forming web, the process apparently completes, and the connecting lines all snap in a blinding flash of green light . . .
. . . and in their place - like a stitched-shut mouth, cut open - is a Rift.
[Before I go any further, I need information from you. Many things could come of this, and which possibilty turns out to be the truth will be decided by the dice (and my whim), but the dice will be thrown against a table based on your hopes and your fears. Given that you have just ripped open a portal to Somewhere Else,
1) What is the best destination/outcome you can think of (and why is it best)?3
2) What is the worst destination/outcome you can think of (and why is it worst)? This is your worst nightmare, under the circumstances.
3) To help me fill in the middle of the table, tell me a few of your priorities in this situation (e.g., "I want my parents and I to be safe and for everything to go back to normal, but saftey is more important than normalcy and my parents' saftey is more important than mine"),
4) and also tell me something that could act as a 'consolation prize' if things don't go your way (e.g., "I've always liked dinosaurs, so even if everyone dies and nothing is ever the same again, it'd be nice if a T-Rex was involved somehow").
Answering any two of those would probably be enough for me to go on, but more is better. Also, any and all questions are welcome (with the caveat that I can welcome a question without answering it).]
____________
I wanted to post this last night, but my internet went down just as I got around to it. Here it is now, anyway.
(but an illusion could also appear in the mind of the person near the illusionist via suggestion)
Right, but this skill is not suggestion (against which they would receive the benefit of their mental defenses, if any); it is creation of light designed to fool onlookers into believing in the existance of things which do not actually exist.
And, as such, it is at least a P15@1 Create Light (sorry, Maxx), yielding a -30 net adjustment for character and skill bias (his Pis bias is 12@1, thanks to the danger sense). His BRA is 1@10 and the maximum possible world bias level is 15, so that leaves him with a (20 + 15 - 30 =) five percent chance of learning this "on the fly*" before taking into account inherent sit-mods. I'm inclined to think this sort of use is not far off baseline, so let's roll now and only worry about calculations if it's close:
97.
Heh. Nice.
Well, that's only not a botch if we have +56 on the skill. Survey says "not a chance," so it's time for another botch list! Santa Claus finally noticed me, it seems. This is an energy creation botch, so let's go all out:
1. Explosion
2. Psionic shockwave
3. Manifest delusion (i.e., create wraiths)
4. Set everything on fire
5. Rip reality (planar gate)
6. Destroy light and/or heat
7. Brainburn (with blindness)
8. Create real fireflies
Those last two aren't so bad, but everyone I could ask for help has gone to bed already, so this list will have to do. Drumroll, please:
5
Nice. I think a GE is in order: (dewey tailor wind). That's in code, because before I decide what's on the other side of this rift, I want to know more from Maxx concerning his hopes and fears on the subject.
If my mother is awake I will point her to the dark shape direction and ask her if she can saw anything weird (or something red) beside the fireflies.
I haven't forgotten about this, but we aren't there yet, so I haven't rolled it.
*no pun intended
A dimensional rift. Very interesting. I wonder where that rift leads to. I just hope that the wraiths will survive the dimensional rift (even if it is only a delusion).
I did imagine myself ripping the fabric of reality sometime in the future but I did not expect it to be this soon. I did also imagine a skill to seal the wraith away so I guess the rift kind of did the job for me.
1) What is the best destination/outcome you can think of (and why is it best)?
Back to my home world. The reason is obvious I think.
2) What is the worst destination/outcome you can think of (and why is it worst)? This is your worst nightmare, under the circumstances.
Home of the real wraiths. The reason for this is also obvious.
I think I can think of something worse than that, how about black hole. That would also be bad but somehow a part of me really want to see what singularity looks/feels like so I am not sure if that is the worst.
"I want my parents and I to be safe and for everything to go back to normal, but safety is more important than normalcy and my parents' safety is more important than mine"
You read my mind.
4) and also tell me something that could act as a 'consolation prize' if things don't go your way
My "consolation prize" would be the knowledge of how it happen. If that is too big of a prize then it would be nice if there were someone else that could resume the quest. A verser jumping in through the rift would probably fit that description well. The dimensional rift could also connect to the elf world (the world that the sprite originally came from) which will open new possibilities.
*****
Right, but this skill is not suggestion
Yes, that is right which is why I put it in a bracket to note there are other ways a person could see an illusion.
(against which they would receive the benefit of their mental defenses, if any)
If it is based on suggestion, would the delusion be affected by it (if the illusion affect myself enough that it will affect the delusion)?
Would the delusion receive the benefit of any mental defenses (such as will power exactly the same as mine)?
And, as such, it is at least a P15@1 Create Light (sorry, Maxx)
Do not worry about it. I am glad it happen the way it is.
Santa Claus finally noticed me, it seems.
Or someone's birthday must be close. Two interesting botches in a row. I must be very lucky.
I think a GE is in order: (dewey tailor wind).
Let me guess. 15?
Learning a firefly illusion on the fly. I catch the rift. Er, I mean drift.
Three quick notes--
- If the gate led home and you passed through it, you would return home as a one year old sprite verser. Does that change your attitude concerning whether that would be "best"?
-
If it is based on suggestion, would the delusion be affected by it
If it is a suggestion, it is entirely in the mind; you're in essence telling someone's brain that they see spots of light where you want them. That could mean that an intervening object would not block the light, because there is no light, only the mental perception of light. -
Learning a firefly illusion
Again, it is not an illusion, which in psionic terms would be the creation of perceived sensory information in the target mind. You are creating real lights, and that's where the problem arises. Unfortunately, nothing other than real lights will serve your purposes--you need real lights so that if there are real objects the real light will be blocked by them. If the lights were illusions and the objects were real, the viewer would have the impression that he was seeing the light shining through the object, and might conclude that the object was unreal or insubstantial.
I hope this helps.
--M. J. Young
If the gate led home and you passed through it, you would return home as a one year old sprite verser. Does that change your attitude concerning whether that would be "best"?
I did thought of that before but it seems that I do not mind what form I am in when I return. There are several reasons for that of course but lets see if anyone can guess what they are. The second best would probably be a world where most of the creature gets along with each other and will welcome anyone including an alien.
A world that enable transformation (to return to former body) or reality simulation would also be a good candidate.
I also thought of heaven/hell as a possible best/worst destination but then the description for heaven/hell for each religion might be different so that may cause problems in the future.
That could mean that an intervening object would not block the light, because there is no light, only the mental perception of light.
Yes, I have thought of that but my question is can the delusion perceive the light through my perception because it is my delusion?
Again, it is not an illusion, which in psionic terms would be the creation of perceived sensory information in the target mind.
It is an illusion of firefly which means that the firefly is not real but that does not mean that the light itself is an illusion thus the term "firefly illusion". You can add the term to be "firefly illusion by creating real lights" but that would be too long thus shorten to "firefly illusion".
Unfortunately, nothing other than real lights will serve your purposes--you need real lights so that if there are real objects the real light will be blocked by them.
My purpose is to distract the wraiths which is why I asked if the delusion of wraith can be distracted by an illusion via suggestion to self and others. My secondary purpose is to make the position of the wraiths known to Lelach. If the suggestion is to make swarms of fireflies fly around objects that looks like the wraith, it is possible that Lelach could not see the firefly because there is no wraiths from Lelach point of view. The reply from Lelach when Morach point at that direction and ask if there is anything weird beside the fireflies would probably be "Firefly?" which would give a clue that Lelach could not see the wraiths.
If the lights were illusions and the objects were real, the viewer would have the impression that he was seeing the light shining through the object, and might conclude that the object was unreal or insubstantial.
I have also thought of that but the illusionist could also suggest that the light would disappear behind an object that the viewer perceive as real. However, that is not what I am attempted to do during that time. The attempt to create light would be much simpler (to tell why Lelach could see it that way) than that kind of suggestion which is why I chose to do it that way.
1) Illusions which are real-world images but not created objects or energies are a magic skill; to do the same thing with psionics you have to create light in the shape of the desired objects
2) Again, it is not an illusion, which in psionic terms would be the creation of perceived sensory information in the target mind.
I am a bit confused with the above statements. Is creating light in the shape of the desired objects an illusion or not?
be very creative in your distortion of reality.
Which of the following considered as distortion of reality?
1) Preconception
2) Optical illusion
3) Transcranial magnetic stimulation to Occipital lobe
4) Use of certain chemical to induce illusion
I hope this helps.
Yes, thank you very much.
...the description for heaven/hell for each religion might be different.......but they would all exist as border supernatural realms; the deep supernatural is inconceivable to mortal minds, indescribable in mortal language, and no one returns from it, ever, so all supernatural experiences are in the borders, which can take whatever form the supernatural beings within them choose to give them.
Heaven and hell are both viable destinations for a gate, and either can be like or unlike your own conceptions. There is also still the questions of whether you will pass through it, or something will pass out from the other side.
Which of the following considered as distortion of reality?
1) Preconception
2) Optical illusion
3) Transcranial magnetic stimulation to Occipital lobe
4) Use of certain chemical to induce illusion
5) None of the above.
by "distortion of reality" I mean something like a P15@5 Create Temporary Object or an elaborate P14@2 Alter Appearance applied to the air itself. That's probably the closest psionics comes to a magic-style illusion, and I've never seen anyone try it, but you could alter the appearance of the medium such that anyone looking at it would see something else--make the air look like a Samurai or a Howitzer.
Well, it depends on what you mean by "illusion". Here are some examples:Is creating light in the shape of the desired objects an illusion or not?
- Light passes through a colored plastic film then through a lens and forward onto a highly-reflective screen which displays a magnified version of the colored image on the film; the light flashes more rapidly than the eye can detect and the film is replaced between each flash such that slight changes in the image appear as motion in the image. We see people moving as if they were real, although they are two-dimensional and our brains are providing the sense of depth based on perspective. This is in one sense an "illusion"; in another sense, it is real--there really is something there, light reflecting off the screen.
- A connection is made to the brain and information planted within the sensory areas (whether by chemistry, machine, magic, or another mind) such that the brain believes it is seeing in reality what the information insists is there. This is clearly an illusion; it is not real except in the mind of the one perceiving it. However, it is different from the sort of magical illusion that is perceived by anyone looking at that location--only the one(s) in whose mind(s) the information is planted will see it. When speaking of illusion in psionics, this is what is meant: causing targeted individuals to see what is projected into their minds instead of whatever is really there.
- You create light which has a certain shape, and set it in motion as if it were fireflies. This is an illusion in the same sense as the image on the screen, that it is not what it appears to be; yet it is a genuine creation of something real--the light is really there--and in that sense it is not illusory.
- You tamper with reality such that an object appears to be present--the air itself bears the image, perhaps, or there is a non-natural energy present at that point in space that takes the form of an opaque object. This is an illusion. It is not there; there is "nothing" there but what would normally be there (air, presumably), but something is seen. Further, it is irrelevant who looks at it, because it is not an image in the mind but an image in timespace. When speaking of illusion in magic, this is what is meant: overlaying reality with a supernatural sensory image of something else that anyone can see.
There are two significant reasons why the psionic illusion concept matters in your context. The first is the if you are projecting the image of fireflies into someone's mind, they will see the fireflies that are not there, doing what you want them to do. The second is, if what you want them to do is vanish when they pass behind the objects above you, then the target will see those fireflies vanish when they pass behind where you believe those objects to be, without reference to whether they are real or not. Just as you could cause the target to see the fireflies "behind" a real solid object, so too you could cause the target not to see the same fireflies "behind" a non-existent object, and what matters is not whether the object is there but whether you want the target to see fireflies at that position or not.
If it were a magical illusion, an intervening object would block the view of the illusion unless it were specified that the illusion is such that it hides objects behind it but appears to be farther away than it is (e.g., the fireflies move in arcs and change size to create the appearance that they are flying in circles around a distant point when they are remaining in the plane in front of it).
Again, I hope this helps.
--M. J. Young
The portal hangs, eye-shaped, about three meters above the forest floor; tendrils of green light trail from its edges like eyelashes, or cut stitches. It is about two meters high in the middle and three meters wide. Daylight streams through it, dazzling you, and the fetid air it exhales smells of ozone and decay. Tall trees are visible through the opening, and you can hear the raucous, repetitive chirping of a very loud insect issuing from somewhere on the other side.
The wraiths are nowhere to be seen. Your mother, having awoken at your earlier cry, witnessed the last few instants of the rift's opening and has rushed to you, picking you up and holding you protectively. (She has interposed her body between you and the rift, so you are still facing it and can see it over her shoulder). Her cry of alarm and the influx of daylight have awoken your father, who is blinking in bewilderment.
You danger sense briefly receded when the rift opened (which incidentally was the last you saw of the wraiths), but it has returned, stronger than ever.
___
Sorry for the delay; see previous excuse. The GE roll will remain unstated for now, but I'm curious as to what led you to guess fifteen.
Speaking of, we need a GE for the length and severity of your delusional state: 20, "Just Bad Enough." I can work with that.
We also need some attribute checks for you and your parents:
Y) 23
M) 29
F) 22
More on that later.
the deep supernatural is inconceivable to mortal minds, indescribable in mortal language, and no one returns from it, ever
I wonder if a portal can lead to deep supernatural too. I also wonder what would happen if someone accidentally go through that portal. Would that person adventure ends even if that person accidentally go through it?
P15@5 Create Temporary Object
Would that be called an illusion even if the object is real albeit temporary?
an elaborate P14@2 Alter Appearance applied to the air itself.
Could the appearance be perceived even if there are no light?
If I try to make a firefly using this technique in the night, could anyone see it if there are no light or do the other person perceive this air as a firefly even if there is no light?
If I give the air the appearance of light, can this air light the surrounding or only this air would appear bright but not affecting its surrounding?
It is not there; there is "nothing" there but what would normally be there (air, presumably), but something is seen.
Would a force field with certain color be considered as that or is it considered as "something"?
so too you could cause the target not to see the same fireflies "behind" a non-existent object, and what matters is not whether the object is there but whether you want the target to see fireflies at that position or not.
That is a very cool trick to let people know what you see which let them ask what is obstructing the light of the fireflies when they do not see anything obstructing it.
If it were a magical illusion, an intervening object would block the view of the illusion
The kind of illusion I was looking for.
can the delusion perceive the light through my perception because it is my delusion?
The question above is also very interesting to think about. Can something not real be affected by something not real and can the delusion resist the suggestion if I think it would but would not resist if think the suggestion will be effective?
Again, I hope this helps.
Yes, thank you again.
*****
You danger sense briefly receded when the rift opened (which incidentally was the last you saw of the wraiths), but it has returned, stronger than ever.
This would led me to believe that the rift itself is not dangerous but what may come from the rift is dangerous.
The danger sense is self fulfilling prophecy even if it is only delusional. Another danger from botch could also be expected soon enough.
Daylight streams through it, dazzling you, and the fetid air it exhales smells of ozone and decay. Tall trees are visible through the opening, and you can hear the raucous, repetitive chirping of a very loud insect issuing from somewhere on the other side.
Undead insects or insects that smell like one because they kill a lot?
Whatever it is I have to seal the exit to the rift.
I wonder how the portal looks from the back or from other angle.
I will try to seal the exit by blocking it with a force wall which I will activate instantly because there is no time for concentration.
If I have no way of knowing of how the portal looks from the back from my current position, I will probably extend the force wall to cover the back or any angle that might exist an exit.
"Get metal needle," I told Lelach if I succeed in blocking the exit of the portal. I will probably try to mend the rift in space by sewing it with magic or something.
*****
The GE roll will remain unstated for now, but I'm curious as to what led you to guess fifteen.
I am also curious about that GE roll. I will tell you when you reveal the GE roll. That way we can satisfy each other curiosity.
Speaking of, we need a GE for the length and severity of your delusional state: 20, "Just Bad Enough." I can work with that.
What are the chance that the rift and Morach's family reaction to it are just a delusion?
That would also be interesting.
We also need some attribute checks for you and your parents
I wonder what kind of attribute the checks are for and what are they used for but lets see how things go first. This turns out to be very interesting but I wonder how this event will affect Morach's family.
I am posting to "not answer" your questions, largely because they are at this point diverging from the game thread and thus distracting. If you'd like to engage in a discussion about various forms of illusion, feel free to start a separate thread; please set it in the Multiverser forum, if you are able to do so.
--M. J. Young
I'm assuming that this shield provides kinetic resistance only (the baseline) unless you tell me otherwise. I'm also assuming that gaseous motion will be greatly slowed but not completely blocked, that solids and liquids will only breach the shield if they strike it with sufficient force, and that the shield's position is fixed relative to the world.
I will try to seal the exit by blocking it with a force wall which I will activate instantly because there is no time for concentration.
If I have no way of knowing of how the portal looks from the back from my current position, I will probably extend the force wall to cover the back or any angle that might exist an exit.
Would a force sphere enclosing the entire portal be sufficient, or did you want the wall to be flush with the opening? If you want the wall to be flush with the opening, what shape will satisfy you that the portions of the portal which you cannot see are also blocked? (This could matter because difficult shapes may be negatively sit-modded, and also because without knowledge of the other side(s) of the portal, you might specify an inadequate shape.)
____
What MJ said. "Illusion" or not, for the purposes of my game, you can call the thing a Jelly-Nosed Opossum Wrangler as long as we both understand that it achieves its effect by creating real light. (Or it would have, had it worked).
A simple intuition check for Maxx comes up double seventeens (34), so no free clues about the parts of the portal he's not looking at.
Unless he challenges one of my assumptions, has difficulty defining a shape, or changes his mind about his order of actions, we'll roll for the shield next post; it should be pretty close to baseline.
"Get metal needle," I told Lelach if I succeed in blocking the exit of the portal. I will probably try to mend the rift in space by sewing it with magic or something.
Waiting on this until the skill is settled. I'm amused that Maxx has managed to bring that blasted needle back into this.
and that the shield's position is fixed relative to the world.
I agree with all of your assumptions. I just have a couple of questions regarding fixed relative to the world.
If the rift can move, would the shield follow the rift or would it anchor the rift in same place?
If the alternate earth moves in a position which will left the rift behind, would the shield follow the earth or would it be set relative to the center of the world?
Would a force sphere enclosing the entire portal be sufficient
Yes, this would be the best option if I have no knowledge of the other side(s) of the portal.
*****
you can call the thing a Jelly-Nosed Opossum Wrangler
That made me laugh.
I'm amused that Maxx has managed to bring that blasted needle back into this.
The needle that relates to the event would probably have more power to fix the event. The fate of the rift and the needle is intertwined.
You try to enclose the rift in a spherical portal, but you're having trouble focusing properly; it's tough to do things like this on a moment's notice.
Morani is very tense and is trying to get Lelach tell him what happened and what's going on, while Lelach is more obviously frightened and is trying both to explain to Morani that she doesn't know and to get answers out of you concerning the same questions (plus whether or not you're alright), and she's not doing a very good job of either one.
"Get metal needle," I told Lelach if I succeed in blocking the exit of the portal.
Given that you've failed to raise the shield, what now?
____
The shield is a baseline P10@1 Wall, possibly penalized on this use for size, but let's roll before we worry about that: 67, a failure even discounting possible penalties (20 BRA + 20 net character/skill bias + at most 15 world bias level !> 55).
I was about to roll a GE for his parents' reaction, but I think I'll give him a bit more time before throwing in that potential disaster. I think they're fairly predictable for the first minute or so, anyway; it's only after that that it's anyone's guess.
Given that you've failed to raise the shield, what now?
Try mass telepathy to both of my parents. If I succeed in doing that then I will ask them to buy me some time while I concentrate for a minute then trying to enclose the rift in spherical force field again.
If I succeed in the force field then I will ask Lelach help to get the metal needle.
Is it your intention to consecutively open two concurrent connections using your existing Telepathy to Humans skill (SAL 1@8), or are you inventing a new skill which permits multiple connections to be opened simultaneously (and if so, do you also intend that Morani and Leach will share a connection with each other if you succeed)?
You make contact with your parents. Morani goes a little pale when you send your message, but you turn all of your attention to generating your force shield. You hear Lelach ask you, aloud, "Time? Time for what?" Morani asks no questions, but insists to Lelach that you (the three of you) leave immediately; she complies, and you find yourself being carried away as your parents take flight.
You still have line-of-sight to the portal, mostly, but being carried away by your mother at top speed is making it more difficult to focus. Are you still trying for the force field, or are you aborting?
___
It would help to know exactly what Maxx said to his parents, but it's my fault, really; I started it by summarizing his parents' dialog instead of writing it out. I'll assume he's being economical with his thoughts; if Maxx's idea of what he said means the scene would make no sense how I wrote it, he'll tell me so and we'll redo it.
Speaking of assumptions, I'm also assuming that this minute of start-up time is high-concentration like his other start-ups and that he won't want to interrupt it unless it's for something serious.
Maxx will correct me if my recollection has failed me once again, but as I recall, he has not spoken telepathically to Morani before this; his familiarity with his father's mind stems solely from mind-reading varients. Also, his mother is much more intimately familiar with her child's unusual episodes than his father is. He isn't investing enough time or effort to warrant an attribute check for it, so a GE roll seems the best mechanic for deciding their reactions to his telepathic direction: 21, "Bad Enough," does not play in his favor. It's just his lucky day today, isn't it?
Oh, right, skill rolls for the telepathy. Even without knowing if this is a skill learning attempt or skill performance, a 29 succeeds (and if it's two consecutive skill performances, a 44 would work for the second). No need to let that question bog us down, though if it was skill learning I'll need to add another skill to the sheet.
I rolled the force field learning attempt, but then it occurred to me that Maxx might change his mind in light of the events of this post, so I'm holding back that roll and the result until I get confirmation. Assuming we don't rewrite this whole post, I'm assessing the "strike and run" penalty to the attempt thanks to his forced retreat from the rift.