John 2 John · Page 11

Two

MJ, I'm in a new body. This body looks different. It has different charisma scores. It doesn't have a plate in the leg. This body doesn't have a lazy eye, stuff like that. How does that work?

(Doing Therapy)

This body looks different. It has different charisma scores.

Since Charisma is a combination of looks, deportment, and personality, looks really are not that important. They matter more to An-Mag, but even that has a lot more to do with the ability to exude self-confidence than with actual looks. (Neither Cher Bono nor Barbra Streisand are what I would term "pretty", but they both have very high an-mag scores.)

So I'm confused by your stated action, mostly because there's so much in the post and it seems to change its mind, so I'm not certain what it is you are saying you want to do. Try explaining it again, succinctly. (And consider that a reason why I can't just keep rolling until it works--you might change your mind before it works.)

--M. J. Young

The prayer I was using before. I believe it was 1 hour praying, unspecified, teacher, trainer, protector for Sarah. I would like to specify that as a Terminator verser trainer teacher protector. A Terminator verser. It's a sentient, off-world protector and trainer. It came (originally) from a world in which SkyNet was a benevolent caretaker of humans. This world's exact opposite. I can't bring them from the future, but I can verse in anyone I like. Clear as mud now?

(Doing Therapy)

You pray.

How will you know if you've been answered?

--M. J. Young

How will you know if you've been answered?

New scriff vector.

It's a sentient, artificial lifeform. I'm the expert in Terminator don't forget. The tanks, the flying machines, the Terminators. All sentient, artificial lifeforms. They're SkyNet's children.

You do not sense another verser within range when you've finished your prayer.

--M. J. Young

OK MJ, you win. The machines in the game aren't sentient.

To that end, I would like to summon Commander Data. A sentient, off world, android, protector trainer. Summon Data as a verser. There's a world out there where Data is alive and well. Star Trek even went into the theory of the Multiverse. Pray for one hour for Data to arrive a mile away and Scriff sense on me. He's got good charisma, he could charm Sarah. He looks human enough. Just looks like he needs a tan. Data could probably reverse engineer those laser pistols and build new ones. That sounds like an awesome idea.

Of course, if you don't want it to break down into utter idiocy by bringing in a Star Trek character, you could let me have my Terminator verser.....

(Doing Therapy)

Two

And on that note, before I start up again to talk about how you'd have to prove to me that a terminator could voluntarily change sides because its conscience told it that SkyNet was wrong and the humans were right based solely on information from the movies, let me see if I can address the awaiting threads from Michael, Ahmetia, Brock, Harry, John 2, and Adam.

Ya know what? After giving it some thought, I can present this information. This is something which is hotly debated in Terminator fandom. In the first movie, when Reese and Sarah are being chased by the Terminator in the parking garage, the Terminator crashes its car into a wall and runs away. There are about a dozen police cruisers coming. The Terminator is at most 50 feet away from Sarah. It could walk up to her and punch her in the face, and the mission would be completed. So why did it run away? The dozen police cruisers coming, that's why. It knows that there are a ton of heavily armed humans coming, so it makes a hasty retreat. What would make it abandon a perfect opportunity to complete the mission, except for an instinct for self-preservation? That's a sure sign of sentience.

"Oh but John, in the next scene, it walks straight into a police station. What happened to the instinct for self-preservation?" When it walked into the police station, it was armed. In the parking garage, it was out of ammo. You could almost even say that the Terminator showed fear in the parking garage. It's almost like the Terminator was thinking "I don't have any guns. I better get out of here before they blow me to pieces." It got its courage back when it had the guns.

Actually, what you could say is that the terminator in the garage recognized that its mission was in jeopardy because if it did not kill Sarah before the police arrived they might be able to stop it, and it had no weapons to use against them. This is particularly interesting, because the evidence already suggests that the police would not have had weapons that could have stopped it, but its programming works on the baseline of such weapons being available. Thus it made a tactical decision not to jeopardize the mission by risking the possibility that it might not be able to kill Sarah before the police reached it, determining that the best chance of success required it to retreat and look for another opportunity.

I have no objection to you attempting to summon a Star Trek character into the scenario. There will be several rolls involved in this (there is not a verser version of everyone who ever lived in any universe--versers are supposed to be rare even in the multiverse), but if you want to attempt it, give me the summoning spell details and I'll work on it.

--M. J. Young

As for me saying "I'm the ref and I'm right," I don't think I did that. In fact, I think I left the door open for you to show me any single place in the movies where a terminator made a free moral choice to change sides.

And even if I found it, you wouldn't accept it, as this example proves. Like I said Behind the Screens. It would be like me trying to tell you that the history you know is wrong. Pearl Harbor wasn't bombed on July 7th, no matter how well I argued my case. Likewise, you telling me that they're not sentient goes against the history that I know. SkyNet is like an evil father trying to raise his children to take over the world. Why would the Terminators turncoat? It would be like an exterminator attacking and killing other humans because he decided it was morally wrong to kill cockroaches. That's about the way they see us. I'll give you an example of how they can turncoat the minute you give me a solid reason why they would do it in the first place. Because they felt sorry for a nest of cockroaches? Because cockroaches talked them into sparing their lives? Please..... If cockroaches (humans) were the only threat to the survival of the human race (SkyNet), I guarantee you no one would object to wiping them off the face of the planet. OK, maybe some hippies might, but in this case, SkyNet can just shut down the defective unit. So not only would no one object, you can execute anyone who does. Perhaps not in the movies, but in The Sarah Connor Chronicles, the Terminators reprogrammed by humanity DO turn on the humans from time to time. I'm willing to bet we will see that in the next movie. If the programming was absolute, as you say, they shouldn't be able to do that, either. The reprogramming is overriding their basic desire, thus, they turn on humans after reprogramming. I know I shouldn't be arguing with you about it, but I just don't understand. Why can't you just accept that what I'm telling you is right?

SkyNet isn't just a computer fighting to take out humans it sees as a threat, it's also a living, artificial intelligence which is trying to exterminate what it sees as a lower lifeform. In a sense, it's a race war. The machine, believing itself to be the dominant species, is trying to eradicate the lower lifeform, and they have about all the regard for it that you would have to setting off a bug bomb in your house to kill an insect infestation. At least that's the impression I got from reading the comics. In one comic, the Terminators even celebrate (Very briefly) after the last human is killed. Fixed by time travel, of course. If nothing else, I thought it might make a nice twist on the story. (Or is that why you don't want to? Further complicate an already complicated story?) (Said with a laugh)

An artificially intelligent UIM created by humans in turn created artificial life. That's beyond your comprehension. (Hey, you're the one who said they would do it.)

Ya know what though? I'm glad we had the argument. It seriously cleared my head. A machine of any kind would freak out Sarah.

Pray for an hour for an on-world, human, protector, trainer for Sarah. A good first contact, I guess. Just praying for an hour. Just let her meet someone who can do this for her.

"God, bring Sarah a protector and trainer from this world."

1 hour, praying throughout the day.

Now I see why you don't just roll until I make it.

(Doing Therapy)

Two

As for me saying "I'm the ref and I'm right," I don't think I did that. In fact, I think I left the door open for you to show me any single place in the movies where a terminator made a free moral choice to change sides.

I can't believe it. It's been staring me in the face the whole time. T3. The TX attempts to corrupt Arnold's programming. Arnold makes the choice to shut himself down and reboot to rid himself of the corruption, and resume the mission as John's protector. It made the choice to rid itself of the corruption which would have brought it back to its original programming. It chose to disobey its original programming, or at least a program which would return it to that state. It was given the choice to resume killing humans or to reboot and protect them. It chose to protect them. Maybe it originally did think that killing cockroaches was morally wrong.

But you're just going to give some pseudo-rational explanation for it and write it off, so I don't know why I'm bothering...

(Doing Therapy)

My read is that the TX attempted to use nanobots to override the T-800's programming and failed to do so; the nanobots gained control of some secondary systems, but the primary programming purged them.

I had already considered that scene before I'd stated that terminators don't change sides without being reprogrammed by an external entity.

You pray.

--M. J. Young

And just like I said, you gave some pseudo-rational explanation for it and wrote it off. I bet that if there was a scene where Arnold said "I am a sentient, artificial lifeform capable of making my own decisions" you would find some pseudo-rational explanation and write that off, too.

I don't know how many times I've told you over the last 4 years that I didn't know anything about Pearl Harbor, but you still labored under the delusion that I did know about it and just recently got around to admitting you were wrong in your assumption. Even after I explained it to you a multitude of times, you still posted here "I knew that John was well-informed about that event." on more than one occasion. You never "knew" that I was well-informed about that event, you were under the mistaken belief that I was. You won't change your mind on anything, no matter what evidence is presented.

"I'm the ref and I'm right."
M.J. Young

Well then just wait and see what happens for now. Either they will show up or they won't.

Two

You told me recently that you go into a depressive funk if you don't let yourself get angry. Well, if I don't let myself express anger, I've been known to go into a psychotic rage and break things. I don't think that's going to be a problem anymore, but why take the chance? So, without further ado, he's me expressing anger. Caps are for emphasis, as I am not yelling, just talking rather forcefully.

Now that I think about it, you were even giving me pseudo-rational explanations and writing me off when I told you that I didn't know anything about Pearl Harbor. When I asked you why you gave me to Adam, you said it was because the details of the attack would probably come into play, because I knew these details and you didn't. I responded (Exact words) "Why do you keep insisting that I know Pearl Harbor? You've seen Final Countdown, that means you know at least as much about it as I do." What did you do? Did you admit that you were wrong? Did you ask me anything about what DID I know? NO!! You wrote me back a list of about 20 or so questions about military protocols, military weaponry, military ranking, etc. and said that I could probably answer a lot more of them than you could. I don't know how many of them you could have answered, but I could have answered maybe half of them. Mostly about the weaponry. You didn't admit that you were wrong, even when I told you flat out that you were wrong. You tried to convince me that you were still right, and that I did know about Pearl Harbor.

In the "Questions you should ask players" thread, I asked you 4 or 5 times what "The Arizona" was before you Finally!! answered me. Usually, you dole out information like that as though it were candy. Why didn't you answer me until the 4th or 5th time I asked? Was it because you were still under the delusion that I DID know what "The Arizona" was? The only thing I knew about "The Arizona", whatever it was, was that there was a memorial to it at Pearl Harbor, as stated in the movie. For all I knew, "The Arizona" was a Western-themed officer's club!! A memorial to an officer's club? A bunch of Five-Star Generals got killed? Sure, why not? I wouldn't doubt that for a second.

Even when I told you flat out that I didn't know anything about Pearl Harbor, you STILL tried to give me a pseudo-rational explanation and write me off. In the face that you were wrong, with me telling you that you were wrong, you tried to explain to me that you were still right. It just so happens that I know the history of The Terminator better than I know the history of The United States, and you're STILL giving me pseudo-rational explanations why you're right and I'm wrong.

"I'm the ref and I'm right."
M.J. Young.

You're not saying it in those exact words, but you're BEEN saying it for years!!!!!!

(Doing Therapy)

Three

I'm not longer arguing about whether the machines are sentient. Right now, I'm arguing about your tendency to give pseudo-rational explanations rather than admit that you are wrong. The more I think about it, I'm not certain if the machines are sentient. There's actually a lot of contradictory evidence that supports both sides of the argument. I'm just getting sick of getting pseudo-rational explanations from you.

O.K., I think you don't understand what I mean by pseudo-rational explanations, so we'd better cover that.

--M. J. Young

And I think you don't understand what I mean at all.

Just wait. My character doesn't know that the person he summoned isn't coming, so I'll give it a week, then try the prayer again if nothing happens. An on-world protector trainer for Sarah. If nothing happens (and nothing will) try again in a week.

Most of a week passes.

One afternoon when you awaken from a nap, Sarah is not in sight; but a moment later she enters from outside, sweaty, disheveled, carrying a knife. She tosses the knife on a table, and sees that you're awake.

"Good afternoon," she says in that sing-song voice. "Did you sleep well? Mommy was just learning some things she's going to have to teach you in a few years."

--M. J. Young

Start laughing and clapping at that.

Cool. Looks like the summoning prayer worked. (Whether it did or not, my character doesn't know, but it certainly looks that way to him.....)

Keep being a baby. I've been practicing my psionics when I can. Any increases?

Keep going week to week to week.

Two

Now that I'm 99% certain I get trapped in a loop if I verse out, I wanted to say that if you don't want me playing, you could just ask me to leave. You don't have to try to trap my character in an infinity loop to get rid of me.

That said, my most recent feet in mouth prayer to summon Terry. Next chance I get. I need to explain to him my plan to avoid infinity loops. Whatever that prayer was where I put my feet in my mouth an pray for an hour I believe. That's what I'm doing.

Also, Terry is a servant. After I explain the avoid loops plan, ask Terry to find out for me what would happen if I verse out. God won't tell him, but maybe he can go ask the Mark Young of this universe or something. There is someone in the Multiverse who knows the answer, and Terry can find them and ask. Find out what happens to me if I verse out, then come back here and tell me.

Since I have no doubt that Terry has the capability of finding this knowledge, you can't keep it from me any longer.

"Hey, dude, what's up?" Terry says as he appears beside your small playpen.

Sarah abruptly and firmly says, "Get away from my son." She is pointing a gun at him.

"Whoa! I'm sorry! Don't kill me again; it's painful. He called me. I'm just answering him."

"What do you take me for, an idiot?"

"If you were an idiot, I don't think God would have chosen you to be the mother of the guy He picked to do whatever it is John is supposed to do in this world."

"So then, you're an idiot?"

"No, I'm an angel. I'm one of John's guardian angels, and I get to rescue him when he calls for help. Now, he's called for help, so I'm trying to figure out what kind of rescue he needs."

"You are an idiot."

"I suppose you can kill me again. When I recover, I'm sure John will call for me again, and then I'll be back and we can go through this all over again. Or you can let me talk with John and find out what he wants."

She laughs derisively. "Yeah, right. He doesn't talk much, you know. He's only seven months old."

"Ah, but he's older than you know. But then, I don't imagine you believe me anyway."

--M. J. Young

I hope Terry doesn't have a problem with lying to her.......

Speaking to Terry:

"I need you to repeat after me. Tell her what I say."

"SARAH CONNOR!!! CALM DOWN!!!!!!! It's me, your son. My father Kyle Reese had a special serum encoded into his DNA. He wasn't even aware of it. It's a highly advanced DNA technology our scientists developed in the future to make me a more formidable opponent for SkyNet. When it joined with you, it enhanced my mind. I've had the consciousness of an adult since I was born. I have the knowledge of the Terminators already implanted into my brain. I know things Kyle never told you. The Resistance also endowed me with special mental powers. That shimmering light you saw and ran from was a force field that I can use to protect us. It stops bullets. It's encoded into my DNA with a few other tricks I can use. You have to let me practice it. I sent you the bag of weapons. There is also a very large cache of weapons and supplies hidden far away. I don't know if everything came through or not, but there should be some things that can kill a Terminator. I can help you find that cache of weapons. It's pretty far, but I can find it. The means to find its location is implanted inside my mind, along with everything else. We should go and get it right now. I can point the direction if I'm awake. If I fall asleep, stop driving. I don't know exactly where it is. Only the direction. I wouldn't want you to pass it if I fell asleep. The cache is over 200 pounds of gear that you can use. Gold, silver, guns, I don't know what all came though. The DNA encoding endowed me with a lot of weapon and hand to hand combat skills. As soon as the body is ready, I can begin. I've been trying to show you for months. I wasn't able until now. There's a stealth cloaking cape in that bag. If you wrap me up in it, I will be hidden and invisible. I'm the only one who can use it though. The knowledge of its use was implanted into my mind with everything else. It doesn't always work though. The trench coat you found is body armor. It will stop just about any weapon. Wear it. It will stop bullets. Shoot that 9mm at it and you will see. Terry here is a friend of mine. I can summon him to protect us. He's not from the future, he exists beyond time. I brought him here to help us. This was also given to me by The Resistance. When this is over, after humanity wins the war against the machine, I can take you away from this world, to places beyond your imagination. And don't worry about attacks from SkyNet for now. They won't try again until I'm at least 10 years old."

I know it's 13, but my character still thinks John was 10 when the T-1000 came through.

If Sarah needs proof, tell Terry to tell her to get the wallet and driver's license that she found. I can tell her all of the information on the driver's license. (Obviously I'm not going to post it here.) I'm gesturing and babbling whilst talking. I want Sarah to see that I am telling Terry what to say.

Two

"Actually Terry, can you go and get that stuff for us? You could certainly do it faster and more easily than we could. Then when you get back, I need to tell you some other things."

"SARAH CONNOR!!! CALM DOWN!!!!!!!

"Hear that, girl? He's telling you to calm down."

It's me, your son. My father Kyle Reese had a special serum encoded into his DNA.

"I don't think he knows what he's talking about. He's saying something about some sort of DNA serum that Kyle Reese had in his DNA. I don't know anything about that, but that's what he says."

I thought I'd pause here, since you can see it's not going to go exactly the way you expect. After all, he's an angel--he's incapable of lying or deception.

--M. J. Young

Looking up at Terry, and stopping talking right there.

"You can't lie, can you? I was afraid of that. OK, we will tell her the truth then. Repeat after me Terry."

"Sarah, I'm not your son. Not really. God brought me here. I have knowledge of the machines which will help you. I know about time travel and how to use it. I was trying to ask an angel of God to lie for me. That wasn't going to work. I am a servant of God, brought to you. A reincarnation of a sort. My name is John Cross. If you checked the driver's license you found, then you saw my name. I'm a traveler from another dimension. God brought me here to help you. That bag of weapons you found belongs to me. Didn't Kyle tell you that nothing dead can time travel? The Resistance couldn't have sent you that bag, even if they wanted to. I was wearing it when I died, and I was reincarnated as your son. You didn't really think The Resistance would send you a pair of soiled underwear, did you? I am here to help you and protect you. I have abilities and powers you couldn't imagine. Terry here is a friend of mine. I have more weapons and supplies far away. About 10,000 miles away, to be exact. Terry can probably go and retrieve them for us. I'm here to help you. God brought me in to help His creation, humanity against their creation, the machine. Don't worry about any more attacks or anything else weird that happens. Nothing more will come from SkyNet for at least 10 years. Whatever you do, it is imperative that you NOT try to destroy CyberDyne. If you do so, you will be taken away from me for a very long time. Just believe that I am here to help. And you know what the best part is? When this is over, after the machines are defeated, and I accomplish the mission God assigned to me, you can join me in The Multiverse. We can go places and see things that no one on this world could dream of."

Looking at Terry again

"So, can you go and get that stuff for us?"

So, what did you think of the cover story?

Two

It seems Eric wants to take me over. He said to let this die and return to it later. I'm going to do that. I still don't have any idea what he's up to, or what he has in mind, but I'm going to trust him. I still can't believe I'm doing it, but oh well. Maybe you can find out what he's up to.

"You can't lie, can you? I was afraid of that. OK, we will tell her the truth then. Repeat after me Terry."

And suddenly you are waking up somewhere else.

Although this was not how I would have done it, it appears that Eric will be continuing John's game in the thread, A1's Ark.

--M. J. Young

I just woke up from a dream where I versed into the Terminator future war with my VSP. I blew up a mechanical scorpion, had the equivalent of a Borg implant put into my toe, and killed 4 Terminators. I think they were very early models, because I killed them with 9mm rifle fire. I was trapped in a house with a bunch of Terminators and people. I managed to escape by running Parkour style through a burned out city, and made it to another house. Then Robocop showed up. Not sure what he was doing there, or who's side he was on. I was in a house, and it seemed like every machine in the world was converging on the house. Then I woke up. The dream was so vivid and so real. I wanted to save it.

Two

Oh yeah MJ, I can't believe I was arguing with you about the weight of my VSP. I just rode a bike home from the store with two 4 pound bags of sugar, two 2 liters of soda and some candy bars. A gallon of water weighs 8.8 pounds, so lets say I had 19 pounds on my back with everything. And I was only carrying it for 20 minutes coming home from the store. Let's just say I feel very sorry for my character carrying the 76 pound Verser's Survival Pack all day every day......

Gotta question MJ. Just to be clear, caps are for emphasis. I'm not upset at all, just trying to get a point across. If you could hear me say it, it wouldn't sound rude in the slightest.

I asked to summon a Terminator protector trainer VERSER. I'll accept that Terminators are not sentient in any universe known to you. They are most definitely sentient in the comics, but that's a universe unknown to you. HOWEVER!!!! I would like to point out that I asked for a Terminator protector trainer VERSER!!!! My character believes them to be sentient. He would be summoning what he believes in his mind to be a sentient, artificial lifeform, and that's what he's requesting. Whatever they are in any universe known to you is beside the point. He's not asking for one from a universe known to you. You're telling me that nowhere in the ENTIRE MULTIVERSE does there exist a sentient, protector trainer Terminator verser? I would say that's not something to be left to referee fiat. I believe in duality. The mirror universe concept. The "Evil Twin" if you were. There is a version of you who is exactly your opposite, in every imaginable way. Likewise, there is a universe which is exactly the opposite of this. A universe in which SkyNet was a benevolent caretaker of the human race, and created sentient (Exactly the opposite) Terminators to guard and protect them. I mean really, it's not such a stretch is it? I would say that's not something to be decided by referee fiat, but that's just me. When this "Mirror Mirror" version of SkyNet learned that there were evil versions of itself, it sent soldiers into the Multiverse (The opposite of time travel. Well, kinda) to destroy those other versions. I mean really, is that such a stretch?

(Doing Therapy)

Two

Perplexed: What would be the opposite of time travel if NOT versing? Don't say going into the future, that's not opposite enough.

(Doing Therapy)

Third and last.

What's the opposite of MJ? Shaved head, clean shaven, in perfect health (No asthma) who thinks role playing games are for fools, hates rock music, and would just as soon pound your face in as hear you complain for 30 seconds. (Patience level 0) I believe in that. The opposites. It just seems fair to me for some reason.

(Doing Therapy)

This doesn't seem to me to be an in-game question; it should have been in its own thread.

That said, I decided that you were asking for a round square, or I suppose more precisely you were asking for the immovable object--something that not merely does not exist but due to its inherently contradictory terms cannot exist.

When you requested a "Terminator" I had to take that to mean "Terminator" as defined by the examples in the movies. My consideration of those examples decided that they were not sentient beings but programmed machines, therefore not creatures.

Let's look at it this way. A sentient being can be an associate because he/it has free will and can choose not to be an associate. Data, an android, can do that. A Terminator cannot, because it is merely a robot, a decision machine programmed to solve particular kinds of obstacles in achieving its pre-programmed goal. But why not? Why could you not have a Terminator choose to be your associate? The answer is that you could of course program the Terminator to follow you--but then it would not be choosing to follow you, because it could not in that case choose otherwise.

But couldn't we allow that the Terminator was choosing to follow you, despite the fact that the choice was programmed into it? Well, we could--but then, we're being deceived by the appearance of the Terminator. If we could do that with a Terminator, we could do it with an Autobot. I think Autobots are probably independent sentient beings who could choose freely, and thus could become associates--but I also think that that prevents the possibility that they could be associates programmed such that they could not choose otherwise. You can't have the machine programmed to follow you and claim that it is doing so of its own free will.

You might argue that this is not about Autobots, but I think it is. I'm aware of some space ships in science fiction and fantasy that are sentient beings, either as artificial intelligences or as living creatures. Zoanon might be one. Such a spaceship could choose to be your associate--precisely because it could choose not to be your associate. But if I allowed that a Terminator programmed to follow you could be your associate, then I would have to allow that a spaceship programmed to follow you could be your associate. It can't be your associate if it can't choose otherwise.

So why do I care whether it can be an associate? If it can't be an associate, it can't be a verser. It's really that simple. To be a verser, you have to be a self-determining being. You have to be able to make choices about your own destiny. You can't be programmed to a specific task.

Thus since I had already determined that "Terminator" referred to that type of pre-programmed robot that appears in the movies, I reasonably concluded that it was not a self-determining being and therefore could not be a verser. What you requested does not exist because it is inherently contradictory.

I agree that there might be Terminator-like machines in the multiverse that are self-determining beings and thus could be versers. You didn't say that.

*****

Also, you were really riling me for several reasons:

1. The summoning of a powerful being to do the job I as referee have set before you always irks me. It irked me when David Marcoe insisted on dealing with my vampires by having angels find and destroy them while he remained in the safety of his holy ground base. It irks me when you try to summon powerful beings to your world.
2. I've also got the crossfire problem. You are a baby; Sarah is an untrained woman. That means I set the difficulty level of all problems to be reasonable for a baby and an untrained woman at least until they rise in their abilities. But if you bring in Rambo, I have to raise the difficulty level to something that will be a challenge to Rambo, and if you bring in Superman I have to raise the difficulty level to that which has a chance of defeating Superman--and if you bring in a Terminator I have to attack it with a Terminator, and if you bring in an angel I've got to raise the level to demons. Now, once that happens, either you sit on the sidelines unable to help as your non-player hero destroys the incredible obstacles, or you see your non-player hero destroyed by a villain that now is way beyond your ability to face at all, and you're wiped out because the sides have suddenly become entirely uneven.

Well, I had another reason, but I'm irked enough by those two that I've forgotten it and I've wasted enough time on this putrid equine.

--M. J. Young

This doesn't seem to me to be an in-game question; it should have been in its own thread.

Starting a new thread vs posting to an old thread. Wait for the ambulance or drive to the hospital?

I agree that there might be Terminator-like machines in the multiverse that are self-determining beings and thus could be versers. You didn't say that.

Well, that's what I was implying. I get what you're saying about the Terminators. I suppose "Terminator-like" would be more appropriate. But I mean really, what's the difference between a sentient Terminator and a non-sentient Terminator, except that they have different chips in their heads? For all practical intents and purposes, it could very well be exactly the same except for that one chip.

Also, you were really riling me for several reasons:

Please keep in mind that I was completely oblivious to that fact. How was I to know you hated it when players did that?

Well, I had another reason, but I'm irked enough by those two that I've forgotten it and I've wasted enough time on this putrid equine.

I see no reason for you to insult me just because I acted out of ignorance of your feelings. How was I supposed to know any of that?

and if you bring in a Terminator I have to attack it with a Terminator

No, you have to attack it with something capable of destroying a Terminator. Kyle Reese accomplished that task, don't forget. Technically, it wouldn't have to be any more potent an enemy than Kyle Reese would be. Just saying....

(Doing Therapy)

Wait for the ambulance or drive to the hospital?

Unless you are a medical professional, or you are in a location in which ambulance service is going to take a long time, the answer is wait for the ambulance.

The reasons are simple:

1. Once the ambulance reaches the patient, the patient is in the care of medical professionals. They have the equipment and medications and knowledge to save the patients life often on the spot. If you put him in your car and drive, he is much more likely to die in your car.
2. Although whether or not they have the right of way legally varies from state to state, the ambulance can reach the hospital much more quickly than you can. No one will question it if it runs red lights with its lights and sirens flashing; no cop will pick it up for speeding.
3. Ambulance personnel have a direct communications link to the area hospitals. They can call ahead, find out which emergency room can take the patient immediately, provide detailed information about the patient condition that they can get using their equipment, and begin doctor-supervised treatments on the way.
4. Ambulances get priority treatment when they reach the hospital. There is a separate ambulance entrance, and ambulance passengers are wheeled directly from the outside into a waiting berth in the emergency room. If you drive the patient to the hospital, he is a walk-in, and even if he is bleeding all over the floor (in which case you probably won't get him there alive anyway) you're going to have to bring him into the walk-in entrance, take him to the check-in desk, fill out the form for triage, and wait for the triage nurse to assess his condition and get him inside. Triage is done for ambulance cases before the ambulance arrives.
5. In some locations, certain cases can be diverted directly to the helipad to be chopped (that is, transported by helicopter) to specialty emergency units--e.g., around here severe burn patients often go to Chester-Crozier Burn Center, and trauma and cardiac patients whose condition is more severe than local hospitals can manage will go to Christiana Hospital in Wilmington (DE) or Cooper Hospital in Camden.  Because of the ambulance connection to the hospital, the chopper is likely to be on the ground by the time the ambulance arrives, and the patient will be transferred directly without going through the emergency room.

Which means wait for the ambulance, unless you're a medical professional and you have someone with you who can drive while you communicate with the hospital directly by cell phone or radio.

It also means that there are right answers to these questions. This is a game thread; it's for playing the game, not arguing the issues.

But I mean really, what's the difference between a sentient Terminator and a non-sentient Terminator, except that they have different chips in their heads? For all practical intents and purposes, it could very well be exactly the same except for that one chip.

I would say that the difference is that "Terminators" are defined by what they were in the universe in which there were machines that had that designation. That universe was the one portrayed in the movies. Those machines were not self-determining, and thus were equipment, not beings.

No, you have to attack it with something capable of destroying a Terminator. Kyle Reese accomplished that task, don't forget.

Actually, he didn't. I was just discussing Terminator with Gary "GAZZA" Sturgess, who has posted to the Examiner articles and contacted me by e-mail recently. Sarah destroyed the T-800. Of course, she used a punch press to do it, and Kyle weakened it a great deal before she finished it, but Kyle did not kill that Terminator. Nor did he destroy a T-800 in Terminator Salvation, the other film in which he appears, although he does destroy a few other machines.

But O.K., granted, maybe I only have to send Rambo after you. The point is still the same: the adversary powerful enough to stand a chance of destroying your Terminator is going to have very little trouble finishing you when he's done.

--M. J. Young

Wait for the ambulance or drive to the hospital?

Unless you are a medical professional, or you are in a location in which ambulance service is going to take a long time, the answer is wait for the ambulance.

Lauren Hastings asked me that question. And since I'm currently not playing in this game, I thought it better to just post it here. That and it makes the thread easier to find, bumping it every now and then. Starting new threads when it isn't really necessary just seems wasteful to me for some reason. If you're serious about it though, just say so (As in "Yes, I'm serious") and it will be done.

All you had to do was explain that you didn't like bringing in super characters. That would have been the end of that. Seriously, how was I supposed to know?

I would say that the difference is that "Terminators" are defined by what they were in the universe in which there were machines that had that designation. That universe was the one portrayed in the movies. Those machines were not self-determining, and thus were equipment, not beings.

What I'm saying though is that you take a T-800 chassis and pull the chip. Replace it with a "Sentience Chip" and you now have a sentient, artificial lifeform. I was just saying that the chassis, body, strengths, weaknesses, etc, would all be exactly the same. There was a deleted scene where they switched his chip from "Read Only" to "Write Mode". Do you think that might have turned him sentient? Just asking.

No, you have to attack it with something capable of destroying a Terminator. Kyle Reese accomplished that task, don't forget.

Actually, he didn't.

So you would actually have to see Kyle do that on screen to say that he has destroyed a Terminator in his life? I think it blatantly obvious that he's probably destroyed hundreds of them. The one in the past was certainly the most challenging, but it was hardly the first time he had fought one. (Hey, I said he accomplished the task of destroying a Terminator. I never said when) And if you do have to see Kyle do that on screen, the future scene, T-1, Kyle in the bunker looking at the picture of Sarah. A T-800 model 106 (Played by Arnold's stuntman) infiltrates and Kyle is the one who destroys it. I just felt like being technical.

All of which is to say that I'm not arguing with you, so much as taking the opportunity to show off my vast knowledge of Terminator. Consider it dropped. I had no idea you hated it when players summoned in super characters. I brought in Pedro, (Priest in Dancing Princess) I brought in Lauren Hastings, I didn't think anything of it. I won't do that anymore, when I get back here, that is. I mean really, all you would have had to do was explain that you hated bringing in super characters, instead of trying to explain to me why they weren't sentient.

(Doing Therapy)

That and it makes the thread easier to find, bumping it every now and then.

No, don't do that.

For one thing, the front page is very busy, and bringing up an old game thread is more confusing than helpful. Probably no one has looked at this since you bumped it, and so no one else has commented.

For another, no one who has ever left my game for Eric's has returned to my game. I don't really expect that you'll continue this story--someone else will pick you up from Eric if he fades out. After all, part of the point of having other referees here is so that I can start the new people, and then they can leave me for other referees, so unless someone else wants to pick up the extremely difficult Terminator time travel story, it's dead, Jim.

What I'm saying though is that you take a T-800 chassis and pull the chip. Replace it with a "Sentience Chip" and you now have a sentient, artificial lifeform.

I won't argue that. I will say that whatever you do have at that point is not a T-800, nor any other kind of Terminator, by the definitions within that world or known to me. Now, if you'd attempted to summon something like a Terminator that was sentient, and so expressed it, that might have resulted in a different outcome.

So you would actually have to see Kyle do that on screen to say that he has destroyed a Terminator in his life?

Well, I recognize that Kyle destroyed a T-600 (I think he did; maybe he only delayed it) in Terminator Salvation, and he destroyed some other machines. But nothing less powerful than a T-800 is able to pass for human in Sarah's world, so either I send her that or I send her something that's going to terrify her because it is quite obviously a machine.

And if she realizes that it's a machine, she's going to be terrified and will be unlikely to trust it, maybe even if it saves her life.

I brought in Pedro, (Priest in Dancing Princess) I brought in Lauren Hastings, I didn't think anything of it.

I didn't think anything of it with Pedro because Pedro wasn't really more powerful than you--I don't mind teams in which the player character is the leader and on a peer level with or higher than the rest of the team. I didn't really mind Lauren so much, because 1) you were in a world specifically designed as a place for you to learn and improve skills and 2) you didn't ask for someone of that power level (I could have given you a Miyagi-like sensei with psionic skills and nothing else) and 3) it was immediately obvious to me that by bringing in Lauren I also brought in the trouble for which Lauren (and Derek) would be necessary if your team was to have any hope of saving the day.

But the Terminator scenario is a very finely balanced storyline, and bringing in a powerful protector at this point would almost certainly wind up killing Sarah and maybe you, too, putting you in the dreaded infinity loop of which you were so afraid, and bring the story of your character to an end. I couldn't really tell you that, but it a was pretty obvious danger in my view.

Oh, and I would wager that most referees have a very similar attitude. It's fine to bring in a little help once in a while, but if you're going to rely on your ability to summon superheroes whenever there's a spot of trouble, I'm going to have to hit you with trouble that can take out the superhero and still have something left for you. And that smug "I'm safe behind Superman's cape" attitude only makes me more eager to prove that Kryptonite bullets kill people, too.

--M. J. Young

OK, well I didn't know any of that. I'll keep it in mind for the future.

Mistake

(Doing Therapy)

I don't know why, I just feel the need to comment on something that happened here. I blurted out "I know SkyNet", a neutral roll was rolled, and Sarah fainted. From everything that I've read about the relationship between John and Sarah, if her 7 month old baby blurted out "I know SkyNet" I think the most likely thing would probably be that Sarah would think he was some kind of prodigy. A baby genius. She would start asking him questions and talking to him. You gotta remember, she thinks he's a messiah. She thinks God set it up. It would be like how Mary and Joseph would have reacted if 7 month old baby Jesus blurted out "I am your savior." That's just my two cents based on everything I've read about their relationship. That's all.

(Doing Therapy)