@Eli with Eric: I'm still waiting to see the Vulcan Nerve Pinch. Spock's like 3@10 with that, haha. Besides, it just wouldn't be Spock without at least the attempt.
I think the Vulcan nerve pinch is something they're born with. It would be like saying you had 3@10 skill at blinking your eyes.
Blinking is in fact a bod skill, but I doubt humans have a 3@10 sal.
It's an involuntary reflex action. Have 3@10 skill at breathing, or 3@10 skill at having a heartbeat. You don't have skill at those, it's just something you do.
(Doing Therapy)
Would you describe sight or hearing as involuntary reflex actions? They're both bod skills, too.
You fall and land in the giant's eye, and he tries to get you out by blinking; would it be more fair if he was instantly considered successful at getting you out so you fall to your death in the flatline mag/psi world, or for me to have him roll a blinking skill check, followed by an agility check for you RS = S/D/N?
Breathing skill checks could be rolled if there's a specific reason why your breathing would be hindered; just because you don't have control over your heartbeat doesn't mean you don't have a bod skill for it, and if your heart was significantly handicapped through some means, you may need to roll the skill check.
Of course, the referee has more options than these in these cases. A resistance check could be rolled instead, for instance.
The real question with the Vulcan nerve pinch would be is it a bod skill or a psi skill? I'd be inclined to say bod, but I'm usually inclined to say bod.
It's a difficult call (whether it's psi or bod).
It's definitely a skill, I think--some Vulcans are better at it than others, and in some of the stories the boy Spock had trouble learning it, if I remember correctly.
I note in favor of psi:
- Vulcans have a psionic ability in the mind meld;
- The fingers are used for the mind meld as well as for the neck pinch, and thus could be a transfer point for mental energy;
- Non-Vulcans cannot learn the neck pinch at all, which suggests that it is something other than simply pinching the right nerve or blood vessel.
So it is a mystery, and one which each referee gets to resolve as he sees fit.
--M. J. Young
Non-Vulcans cannot learn the neck pinch at all, which suggests that it is something other than simply pinching the right nerve or blood vessel.
Actually, Data did it once (learned from Spock) and Johnathan Archer actually did it whilst carrying the Katra of Surak. That spot is also a pressure point on a human which causes extreme pain. With Data's strength, he could incapacitate someone without actually doing the pinch, so who knows?
(Doing Therapy)
Yes, later series did make the best explanation both for why Kirk was unable to learn it when Spock tried to teach him and why McCoy was unable to use it while in possession of Spock's katra go up in proverbial smoke by having non-vulcans use the ability; you forgot Odo the changeling and the holographic doctor from Voyager as individuals who have used the technique, though all but one of these people could have some sort of psionic ability.
Which brings up another interesting question; is it possible for a true AI to learn psionics? I admit that my familiarity with Data himself is much less than those who were older when watching the show, but the question applies to more than just the one android.
If it isn't possible for simply an AI to use psionics, could it use psionically activated material to activate psionic devices??
Which brings up another interesting question; is it possible for a true AI to learn psionics?
You know the answer to that question Kyler. It depends on the referee running the game.
I like to get the feedback from other people to see what they think. I've got this mammoth think tank here on the forum full of people much smarter than I, so I like to bounce ideas off it.
An AI, which is essentially a technological device, that was capable of using psionics is different and therefore interesting to me, but no more interesting, I suppose, than an organism, which is essentially a bod device, that was capable of using psionics.
Really interesting, though, would be using psionically active material to activate a psionic device.
Well MJ likes to say in Multiverser anything is possible, so I think that says it all.
Yeah, but what SAL would the AI roll against to use the psionically active material to activate the psionic device?
Maybe it would be under the umbrella of 10@10 Crystal Technology? Seems a poor fit...
What gives living creatures the ability to use psionics? Does the AI have that same thing in them? That's your answer.
It depends on the story, though generally it's agreed in Multiverser that they come from the mind. This being the case, I guess that there's no reason AIs can't use psionics other than that it hasn't been touched on in the development of any worlds so far.
The idea of using psionically active material to activate psionic devices, though, is still an interesting question; taking, for example, a weapon similar to the TK Drill, but instead of activating it through psionic thought, you take a small rod of psionically active material made for the purpose and insert it into the device. What skill would you use for that? How could it be put mechanically?
What skill would you use for that? How could it be put mechanically?
You're asking me? That's like Dale Earnhardt asking a kid playing Pole Position for racing tips.
(Doing Therapy)
As an aside, there is compelling evidence toward the Vulcan neck pinch being a psionic ability, though that doesn't explain how Jean Luc Picard was able to use it; oh, wait, he was Professor Xavier, too, wasn't he? That explains it.
I'm asking anybody to take a stab at it.
Picard didn't use the neck pinch. Spock neck pinched, Data neck pinched, Picard just decked the guy. I remember the episode. Then again, Lonestar from Spaceballs used the Vulcan neck pinch.....
(Doing Therapy)
Okay, so, maybe the skill to use the rod is an ABL P1@1 for telepathically activating the device, maybe it's a focus to give +10, or maybe it should be treated as a tech skill using a psionic device; the user actually has no understanding of how this works, just knowing that you put the rod in to fire it, similar to lighting the fuse on a cannon. I like the last most, because you could have thousands of psionically inactive people fighting using weapons created by dozens of psionically active manufacturers. Would it be permissible under the rules, though...?
Should be. It'd be a cool enough world. You could do a DND type world where psi-makers sell psi power swords....and the swords power is provided by a tap to the mental energy of the user.
Another factor...in a fight, you can Go Big and really crank up the psi energy pushed into your sword for a Dif Mental Stamina check....and hope to take out your enemy right away.
Or you can go more conservative, an dpump the regular energfy into it. You'd be able to fight a lot longer.
I think that if the sword is getting power from the user without the user's knowledge, that probably makes it an intelligent psionic device, unable to be controlled by even its creator without some sort of possession skill. That could be good and bad for the PC; but it also means the swords wouldn't necessarily be limited to drawing only psychic energy from the host (or from the enemy; why limit it to the user when the sword is the one using the skill?) in order to do what it does; it could drain physical energy (translated into mechanically decreasing physical attributes temporarily and informing the PC that they are becoming worn out), for instance.
Mechanically speaking, though, using your target's energy to increase the amount of damage they take, resulting in their loss of attributes and an increase in the damage they take, is a mess. Sitmod penalties to such a skill at least if it's a oneshot deal; of course, if the sword were to temporarily syphon a portion of one of the opponents' attributes into the wielder in one RS attack at a time (lasting a time factor of RS/10 minutes for the last attribute increase/decrease to keep from having a million equations and tracking where exactly each are this round) and rely on the gradually increasing MSV of the wielder against the decreasing TV and DV of the opponent while supplementing this with telekinetic force generative cutting attacks and possibly TK force shields (though maybe these could be gained through shields which are psionic devices activated by the swords), you could end up with some interesting battles.
I think it would be best in a setting like this to go for a feudal type society; the people who are the "psi warriors," nobles with no actual psi abilities are the knights of the battlefield, and the ruling class are the psionically active nobility, with as much diversity as humanity; all confer these devices on their knights, but some rule through cruelty, fear, and deception, taking advantage of their abilities, and others rule with superhuman fairness, reading the minds of people in trials brought before them to determine guilt.
So yeah, that would be feasible too.
Guess I'm feeling a bit manic today. Sorry.
Not even remotely a problem. Feel free to create away. It sounds like a good world.
The psionic devices could also be from a Golden Age of Psionics long past, with feudal lords and/or religious centers now possessing the majority of them to equip their warriors and themselves, and desiring more for the power they present. This would present the bonus that the verser would essentially be the only true psionicist, but you'd have to consider what would happen if the verser used psionics to travel back in time to the Golden Age.
Maybe you could run it as a sort of contingency scenario; if the verser chooses to teach people to use psionics and later verses out leaving his mark on the world, you could verse him in a few hundred years later where the descendants of the people who were trained in psionics are the weapons manufacturers who make the long-range psionic weaponry for capitalist and communist governments to equip their foot soldiers with.
Which brings up another interesting question; is it possible for a true AI to learn psionics?
Absolutely. I've seen The Doctor build a psionic jammer, which means it's possible for psionic power to be generated technologically if you know how. It's a Mind/Machine interface device skill, most plausibly, but I would do it as a double-skill system: the machine must roll its skill at mind/machine interface to perform a psionic skill and then roll its skill at the particular psionic skill.
I've got this mammoth think tank here on the forum full of people much smarter than I, so I like to bounce ideas off it.
It might be my paternal pride, but I don't really think that many of the people here are smarter than you. That does not mean that their contributions are not valuable, because they are indeed mostly intelligent and even the smartest person in the world can't think of everything.
The idea of using psionically active material to activate psionic devices, though, is still an interesting question
The use of such material as you describe it would itself be a psionic device, used either as a P1@6 Energy Manipulative or P1@3 Telepathic device.
The psionic devices could also be from a Golden Age of Psionics long past, with feudal lords and/or religious centers now possessing the majority of them to equip their warriors and themselves, and desiring more for the power they present.
It's been a while since I had to consider the question, but my recollection is that if you dropped the universe bias to 1@10 all the devices would work for the indigs (because activation skill is all that matters for psi devices) and the curve of 11 would block psionic time travel. That would also mean no one could create new devices, except possibly the verser, who could do some of the simple ones (9@1 telepathic devices and 9@2 psi combat devices).
The issue then would be whether the verser can induce a rise in the psi bias by getting indigs to develop 2@ abilities.
--M. J. Young
Hmm... And a curve of 11 still leaves enough bias for the verser to hold some considerable power here...
Intelligent psi devices are treated as equipment, or followers?
Also, are they able to teach themselves new psionic abilites, or only to do that which they were designed?
That sword sounds like how I imagined a lightsaber would work. The Force would be powering it.
(Doing Therapy)
Well, sort of; I mean, not really.
If you versed into a low psi universe, it would probably for all intents and purposes seem to be a sword, no more and no less; though it may take a world with negative bias to prevent it from at least speaking to you telepathically;
but you are correct that lightsabers under the description of the Star Wars universe are most likely psionic devices.
Mechanoman, in Jhiaxus' world, has an accidental psi static generator. The purpose of the Tech skullcap device is for M. to mentally control his armor. The side effect is that it creates psi static +30 SM fifty foot sphere....which doesn't mean much to M. since he doesn't have any psi powers. And while he has Mind Grenades in his repertoire, he hasn't tested them together.
You could also have a Powerblocked Magic...must first be accessed by Psi. This would give you some of the feel of some Deryni and other psi-medieval stories. You first drop into a psi trance, and stretch out your mind, and now you're more likely to meet an angel coming to give you a message.
This offers a source of Good vs. Good conflict. The Castle Knights of the High Wall want the Crystal Lance to fight the gorgons in the Dread Mountains near their home base. But the current owners of the Lance are the Supplicants of the Light, who meditate in the presence of the Lance, and seek to use its powers to observe the land for a hundred leagues thereabout, and on occasion to 'storm the battlements of Heaven' and get an answer directly from the Angel of True Words.
Now both sides want it, and to make it more difficult,both sides have a good legal claim to it. It was in th epossession of the Knights until it was taken just before the Castle was overrun, and as the Knights say 'temporarily' given to the Supplicants to hide. When the Knights retook their own castle ten years later, and then got things running again, well, they asked for the Lance back.
The Supplicants said 'un unh, that was a gift, not a borrow.'
The Knights reply 'you clearly understood'
The Supplicants say 'well it doesn't say that precisely here.'
"Because everyone understood it, and if you read the contract fairly, you'd see that, but you're too blinded by your greed to do so." The Knights reply in a huff, and then various legal measures have been taken since then with appeals to Higher authorities, offers of Knightly trial by combat...
I put forth that Mechanoman's accidental psi static generator is neither accidental nor put there by random chance :P
Intelligent psi devices are treated as equipment, or followers?
Anything that has the ability of self-determination cannot be equipment. It has to perceive itself as property to be property. If it chooses its own master, it is an associate.
Also, are they able to teach themselves new psionic abilites, or only to do that which they were designed?
That probably depends on the world rules.
Mike was recently in A Wizard In Spite of Himself, in which there were some people who were born psions. In that universe, if you weren't born a psi you couldn't become one; but if you were, you would somewhat naturally develop specific skills that were common to all psis and possibly pick up some extras that were rare but known. Some of the skills were gender-linked--guys could fly but could not levitate objects; girls could levitate objects even while sitting on them but could not fly unsupported. As long as they were in that world, they could not overcome those gender restrictions--but that didn't mean they couldn't learn new skills, as long as those skills were consistent with that world. Meanwhile, if Molly had come with Mike, that would have made her a verser, and at that point probably I would have said she can learn any psionic skill she believes she can learn. That would apply to your intelligent psionic device: if it believes it cannot learn a skill, then it cannot do so. It might be able to if it believes so.
--M. J. Young
Well on Mechanoman's level of the Universe it is, but on the deity level where devastatingly handsome demigods like myself reside....ahem, mortal minds cannot handle the deep secrets held by this level of the universe.
Bump of ???
Bump of fire
Falcon punch
the falcon punch did it
"Well I don't want to meet the bird that can knock the door off a jetliner. I thought they were extinct."
Bill Engvall
(Doing Therapy)
On Harry's Verse ; wasn't there laws to protest Monopoly or were those abolished or are there small stores with next to nothing in them?
@Ahmetia
Harry has yet to explore this world in a lot of ways. This place does have some qualities of a Demolition Man, and five or six other sources. It also doesn't help him that I am watching Babylon 5 again on Netflix. The Psi Core also is a big influence. The Core is Mother, The Core is Father.