bump
For what it's worth, I've got two people in Sherwood Forest right now, Oak and Kurt are both still there. =P
I was going to see if Kurt would kill Prince/King John or otherwise prevent the Magna Carta with his presence, but now he's gonna be watching for exactly such a bait. =P Ah well.
Does anyone else miss Nikolaj? =o
Use a scope next time. You won't miss him.
(Doing Therapy)
Picking out the one bad phrase....? I was merely commenting on the fact that something I wouldn't do seems to motivate you. In other words, some random chat.
What's with the directional posts? It looks like spam.
To my unsophisticated financial mind, Inflation=Bad.
Yes, but the alternatives aren't all that much better.
Inflation means that goods and services are increasing in value relative to money, and thus it takes more dollars to buy the same amount of food or gasoline or whatever, but in theory paychecks also get bigger. It's driven in significant part by guaranteed raises and cost-of-living increases, increases in minimum wage, and the attitude most people have most of the time that they ought to be living more comfortably now than they were five years ago and therefore ought to be making more money. If I'm the baker and I want more money to buy a nicer car and can't sell more bread, I have to raise the price of my bread. If I'm the car maker and the price of bread rises, if I want to keep eating the same amount of bread without sacrificing something else, I have to raise the price of cars. It is also driven by government debt. In essence, all debt is a way of increasing the amount of money in the world; the government just does it at such a higher level than anyone else that they have a greater impact; they also have an extra trick for solving it, because they can print money. So I give the government eighty dollars and they promise me that in five years they will give me a hundred dollars, and I now have a $100 bond--the government owes me money. I can use that bond as collateral, and so in a sense it's worth money now. In five years the government will trade $100 for my bond. But if they don't have it, they simply print an extra hundred dollar bill. Where there was a thousand dollars, there is now one thousand one hundred dollars, more money for the same amount of goods. The value of money declines.
The reverse is deflation, and it is the logical opposite: the value of money rises relative to the value of goods and services. That is, yesterday my dollar could by a loaf of bread. Today I can buy two loaves with it--but if I wait for tomorrow, I could get three. The economy stifles, because the incentive is to save money as money, not to invest it or spend it, because it will be worth more tomorrow than it is today. The price of goods falls because the baker can't buy milk if he can't sell his bread, so he slashes the price of the bread to get people to part with their money; but he's in the same position as everyone else, in that once he has the money he knows that the longer he holds it the more valuable it becomes. Wages fall, prices fall, companies collapse, as people hoard cash. Banks don't make loans because they'll get a better return on the money by not investing it. The house you build is worth less in dollars than the dollars you spent to build it. You head into economic shutdown.
Economists argue about the difference between a recession and a depression, so I'm out of my depth there, but both are considered bad.
The problem is that it seems the only "good" outcome is a stable system; but a stable system is a zero growth economy, in which no one gets a raise without comparable increases in production and demand (that is, the baker only makes more money by selling more bread, so either more people have to eat more bread or they have to buy less bread from other bakers). Stable economies are only achieved by artificial means--communist economics--and they require brilliant prescience to maintain and avoid overstocks and shortages.
Someone innocent being harmed right in front of me would be a good place to start.
Yeah, but the princesses were as right in front of you as anyone in that world, and they were genuinely being harmed by the demons trying to seduce and ultimately kill them. The problem was only that you did not know what was happening to them and you did not care enough to find out.
The directions were John's efforts to bump the page counter forward.
--M. J. Young
The good outcome is an increase in productivity which while it commodofies some items so they're only worth slightly more than they cost to produce, it creates new 'gotta' have items.
Mark, are you suggesting that we're in deflation?
I'd also point out that one of the usual responses to massive debts is hyperinflation.
John,
You're looking at it from the wrong angle. I'm suggesting you as the player look for, or create, an interest in a world even if the referee is not skillful enough to do so for you.
Picking out the one bad phrase....? I was merely commenting on the fact that something I wouldn't do seems to motivate you. In other words, some random chat.
Gotcha. But seriously, you save 1,000 women and children, recently widowed. Half of them have more money than you will see in this lifetime. Who wouldn't be tempted?
What's with the directional posts? It looks like spam.
It was a video game. You used the directional pad to play songs. Each direction was a different note. I just played one of the songs.
Yeah, but the princesses were as right in front of you as anyone in that world, and they were genuinely being harmed by the demons trying to seduce and ultimately kill them. The problem was only that you did not know what was happening to them and you did not care enough to find out.
No, I meant literally, right in front of me. If I saw three princesses walking down the street, and then three demons come out of the bushes and grab them, the 9mm is coming out. In Dancing Princesses it was "Go miles and miles in order to risk your life to help a bunch of spoiled, stuck-up rich girls, like the kind that used to make fun of me in high school. Not only will you be risking your life, you will be competing against hundreds of other people who actually would enjoy the chance to rule a kingdom." Which is not something I'd want to do anyway. Blacksmithing on the other hand, that's a skill. That's something I'll always have. I did what I would do, and I don't regret it for a moment. Only reason I went to save them at all is because you told me there were hellspawn demons involved. Anything less, I probably would have let it continue. Risk my life for some spoiled rotten daddy's girls? Uh, no thanks.
(Doing Therapy)
Two
You're looking at it from the wrong angle. I'm suggesting you as the player look for, or create, an interest in a world even if the referee is not skillful enough to do so for you.
And learning to blacksmith isn't creating an interest in a world? That's something I would love to learn to do. Something I would be interested in.
The good outcome is an increase in productivity which while it commodofies some items so they're only worth slightly more than they cost to produce, it creates new 'gotta' have items.
That doesn't actually prevent inflation or deflation. Assuming the money supply remained constant, productivity increases would inevitably cause deflation. Ideally, one could match the increase in the money supply to increases in production and have those sensibly echo up and down the chain. Unfortunately, that doesn't quite work out in practice. However, inflation can be tolerated as long as safe investments increase fast enough for their inflation-adjusted value to increase. Beyond that, serious problems begin to arise.
I keep saying "What is good?" "What is evil?" I've been thinking about it lately. Depending on your definitions of Good and Evil, Adam either used exactly the right opening, or exactly the wrong opening. MJ said that "I decided that this would be a perfect world for you." Depending on your definition of Perfect (Which is just as subjective as Good and Evil) it was a perfect world.
Does anyone else ever feel like something was "Supposed" to happen the way it did? The only thing I can compare it to is Deja Vu. That world feels like it was "Supposed" to go the way it did. Like it was predestined or something. It was the only way that world could have shown you that I was not dedicated to non-involvement, I'll tell you that much. A different opening, it would have shown you how far I'd go to NOT get involved. That's not how it was "Supposed" to go though.
(Doing Therapy)
Mark, are you suggesting that we're in deflation?
Oh, goodness no--my interest in economics is limited enough that I have very little opinion concerning what is actually happening. I think there might be deflationary forces in pockets, such as around Walmarts, where studies have found that the erection of a Walmart superstore means that within the year there are fewer retail jobs at lower wages than there were before the store opened, but I'm not sure whether that's deflation. In any case, I think that we're still experiencing inflation--money is worth less and less--but that those who manage our economy are of the opinion that some inflation is an unavoidable side effect of economic growth.
And I agree that increased production tends to counter inflation. That's probably why the government causes inflation--more money means more investment means, in theory, more production. That's the Roosevelt version, anyway. We still don't know whether it works.
Risk my life for some spoiled rotten daddy's girls?
Funny, I never played the princesses as spoiled rotten daddy's girls. But then, you never met them--you apparently assumed that that's what they were.
I often feel that the game goes the way it is supposed to go. I still wonder whether the dice are truly random or are divinely manipulated.
--M. J. Young
Oh, the Campbell sisters lost internet temporarily.
Well, I think I speak for all of us in saying we fondly await their return.
I found a site that tracks inflation, though the formatting is a bit unclear and I'm not entirely sure I'm readying it correctly
http://www.bls.gov/cpi/#tables
That shows current and past inflation. At present, we're apparently holding approximately steady.
Refresh-induced double post.
It seems the parse error we get doesn't interfere with sending data to the server.
Funny, I never played the princesses as spoiled rotten daddy's girls. But then, you never met them--you apparently assumed that that's what they were.
Yeah, I was stereotyping them and showing prejudice. Still though. I wouldn't have been interested. I could imagine a divergent version of me who went to the castle, married Margaret, then arranged a little "Accident" for her father so now I am the king. This version though wanted to learn blacksmithing, and I don't regret it for a moment.
Well, yes, blacksmithing is, and it makes me think of the next world to send you. Its a place where blacksmiths are Important, often enough.
JTM,
Certain items get cheaper (sometimes vastly so), but as Item A becomes less valued, Item B arises and it is now valued as much as Item A used to be, or thereabouts. This would create a steady amount of desire which translates to a steady 'flation'.
If bread became vastly cheaper because of robot farmers, then yes, there would be deflation.....IF....people didn't suddenly find a new desire for Organic Artisan Bread or Super Cheesy Bread, or Blueberry Tart.
I agree with what you say about investments and such.
I think one thing that is happening is that banks are hanging on to their huge sums of cash because of economic uncertainty which would then mean less inflation despite the huge shot of money made already.
Well, yes, blacksmithing is, and it makes me think of the next world to send you. Its a place where blacksmiths are Important, often enough.
MJ keeps saying that I didn't "get involved" in Dancing Princess. I damn sure DID get involved there. I learned to blacksmith. I taught a 12 year old boy how to box. I could have married one of the blacksmith's daughters. If that's not "getting involved" then what the hell is????? I didn't "get involved" in the story he intended for me, but I most certainly did GET INVOLVED!!!!
Try to do interesting things.
Blacksmithing IS interesting to me.
Two
I'm watching The Last Airbender, and I'm wondering. There are people who have the ability to manipulate the four elements. Air, Earth, Fire and Water. An Airbender can make wind blow at his command, a Firebender can throw fireballs, etc. What kind of skill would that be? Tech, Mag, Psi or Bod? It seems like a Bod skill the way they do it in the movie. They do a martial arts move, then the element they are manipulating responds to it. Thoughts?
I'm pretty sure it would be either psi or mag based. Bod based implies it's something their change their body for or use an aspect of their body for.
Using a ritual like their martial arts moves actually implies it's most likely mag based, but I could easily see it being psi based and the movements are just their to hone their senses in on what they're doing.
It's also possible that it's a mag or psi move that generates a ranged attack which they have a martial arts skill for controlling. (I think that one works, but maybe not, sorta like a gunslinger can have a martial arts move for aiming the gun, they have it for aiming their element.)
Ohhh I say Bod. No one is able to use any of the others except the Avatar, to me, this expresses something they were born with, and I think they use 7@ special attacks based on having the bodily changes to manipulate the elements as they do, but as martial arts abilities and thus only through the use of martial arts except for those experts such as Uncle Iroh. Woot.
I actually watched the entire series and I personally feel that a bod explanation works better than a mag, tech, or psi one.
I saw the movie.
Mag. Spirits incarnated such as the Twin Fish of Water is where they get the power from.
I'd say a powerblock: If you are not of the proper lineage you cannot use magic of this sort. I think that means the verser could not do their form of elemental magic, although he certainly could do other forms of magic.
I'd also say that the Martial Arts are a helping skill. You do the kata, successfully, and get a big bonus to the magic.
Well, either it's mag or it isn't. If it's mag, the martial arts are a somatic ritual; however, there is no verbal component, nor is there a material component, so it does have a negative there. The time factors are pretty instant, so there's another potential drawback to the mag approach.
The spirits are credited with the elemental powers, and the different abilities seem to have magical properties; Firebenders are more powerful in the daylight, Waterbenders under the full moon; I would move to say that these alterations are as easily described in bod ways as in mag ways. However, I would say that the world has a low, low mag bias, except for a few things only the Avatar himself and various other spirit creatures do; for instance, travelling to the spirit world.
There is the spirit world, which I would say is a sub-universe with a very high mag bias and very low bod bias; every time Aang ventures there, he leaves his physical form behind. I was a little sad that No-Face didn't make it into the first movie, as his role in the spirit world was a big one in the end of the Book of Water; alas, when you condense *thinks* at least 400 minutes of something into even 180 minutes, you're bound to miss out on some of the subtleties.
I'm not saying I disliked the movie. It was fair standing alone. Uncle Iroh was still my favorite. I'm just saying it does not stand excellently as a representation.
I am looking forward to the Book of Earth. Toph is my favorite character.
I missed Boomy(I think that's how you spell it.)
He was one of the most awesome characters I've seen.
I'd say it's divine magic. Waterbending ceases to function when the moon spirit dies, after all. That manifests as a total eclipse of the moon, but it's the spirit that actually controls it. Also, some forms of bending are done without associated movement, such as Zuko causing fires to flare up when angry. It also doesn't seem to be tied too tightly to bod bias, with Iroh being a better firebender than anyone except Ozai even before he gets back into shape and Toph being the greatest earthbender in the world despite being tiny and not being able to see people older than 60 and anything less awesome than she is, a condition generally confused with blindness(internet meme, but it fits the facts perfectly).
Admittedly, a number of masters are pretty buff (King Bumi, Iroh after he works out, The Bolder), but it's not entirely clear how correlated that is. Ty Lee does seem to indicate that the bod bias is reasonably high, though.
I'd also note that Iroh went to the spirit world at some point in the past under unclear circumstances.
I haven't heard good things about the movie, but I haven't watched it myself.
Woot for Avatar! Great show. Didn't miss an episode.
Psi or Bod. The fact that it can be unleashed to a degree greater than you expected, or you can lose control of it sometimes during stress, indicates that it is something that can be subconscious. I don't think too many mag skills are subconscious...but it might. Plus, magic usually isn't instant with only one component. Of course, it can fit pretty much any bias but tech, from my way of looking at it.
I just think it fits Bod better, or perhaps Psi.
I still say Bod.
The moon of the Avatar world exudes its own energy which increases the abilities of the microscopic organs (similar to blood vessels or skin cells?) that enable controlling water outside of the body.
Firebenders, I've decided based on various source material, never actually "create fire" on their own; they take the heat present in their own bodies and amplify to induce spontaneous combustion.
Toph is blind. =P The internet meme does not fit the facts perfectly; if you recall, on one occasion, Toph says something along the line of, "I've held a few books before. They just aren't my thing."
Ty Lee's abilities are largely tumbling and acrobatics; the 7@ martial arts say more about the bias, and the presence of Appa, the flying bison, says more than that, and butterflies and frogs kick it up to what... 12@ for morphing between same species? Still on Ty Lee, the abilities she uses are martial arts immobilizers and incapacitators, bod level 7.
It would be interesting, though, to see a three world set on the Avatar world, one where they use psionics, one for magic, and one bod.
This conversation highlights the fact that any bias can be used for any skill fairly easily.
Tech: self-replicating nanites have been present since time immemorial; they are only able to get inside of unborn children, but if you have them in your body, you're able to control the specific element by moving in specific ways to activate the nanites. ;)
I would say that books fall into the category of things less awesome than Toph, personally.
Firebending actually is the biggest point towards a non-bod explanation. It's specifically dependent on the sun, with firebenders being completely powerless during a solar eclipse even when near a volcano.
Ultra-violet radiation, higher heat, increased gravity, or some other sun-specific thing easily explains that whether tech, psi, mag, or bod.
The right answer is however the GM running the game wants it to be. Next question please :P
It seems the parse error we get doesn't interfere with sending data to the server.
Eh, might do one time in ten, from what I've seen. Generally if I get the parse error I open a second window and look to see whether my post has appeared or not, but usually it has.
I have not seen anything of Airbender, and know only what's in this thread. Kyler makes a good argument for bod, and my initial impression was psi, but I think that I would handle it as magic.
Spirits incarnated such as the Twin Fish of Water is where they get the power from.
I'd say a powerblock: If you are not of the proper lineage you cannot use magic of this sort. I think that means the verser could not do their form of elemental magic, although he certainly could do other forms of magic.
I'd also say that the Martial Arts are a helping skill. You do the kata, successfully, and get a big bonus to the magic.
The notion that they are getting their power from specific spirits explains a lot about their activities. The ruling power won't allow indigs to contact spirits outside those of this world (but visitors are not so bound--you can tell your subjects they may not contact people in other countries, but not you can't put that restriction on the ambassadors who come from those other countries). The four spirits (or houses of spirits, perhaps) are jealous and will not give power to anyone getting power from one of the other spirits (or houses); they also won't give power to commoners, only to nobles. Each house is itself limited, under rules established by the world ruler which bonus and limit their powers. They may have bargained for these bonuses and restrictions at some pre-temporal moment.
I think the verser could do anything any of the four houses can do and can use their rituals as examples, but if he wants to do so by drawing power from the house spirit in question he would have to meet whatever requirements that spirit establishes. It might be that the spirits won't take servants from outside their world; it might be that that's one of the restrictions imposed on them in exchange for their power here. But there is no reason why the same ritual can't be used to perform the same magic by calling on a different deity, or even by arcane means.
I'd say that the "martial arts" are the ritual required for the magic. It's been established that the magic does not involve spoken or material aspects, and thus takes a penalty for being single-aspect magic. If you take the kata out of it as a separate bonusing skill, you've made it all magic-by-thought, which takes a severe penalty with a high risk of wrong skill botches. Assuming each kata is particular to one type of skill for the element, they are easily defined as the necessary ritual, and success in the skill is thus based on successful performance of the kata--better performance is indicated by a higher skill success roll and translates into better outcome.
The aspect of stray power is probably only connected to highly skilled masters. In the same way that in some scenarios saints, fiends, and wizards have a faint but visible aura about them, so too in this world masters of individual elements could have trace elemental magic about them that sloughs off accidentally in certain circumstances. Probably I would identify circumstances that might cause such accidents, including bad GE rolls and high stress moments, and require will power checks to prevent such events.
But as Kyler says, you could probably duplicate these powers in any bias area, and there are good ways to do so. I personally like the notion that there are spirits controlling the power, because it gives me good reason why there's no cross power use and never has been.
I would probably make the alliance neutral, and make all the powers neutral as well, which puts them on even footing and probably penalizes most versers, whose holy magic will most commonly be alliance, or sometimes anarch, but not often neutral.
--M. J. Young
Only a small number of spirits grant power, although a number of others exist. Specifically, the Moon and Ocean spirit pair powers waterbending. It's presumed that the other three have similar spirits, but only Koh the facestealer and the Library owl know for sure.
Thinking about it, firebending seems to be a bit out of sync with the other three. Zuko melts ice when completely encased and firebenders seem to be able to control existing fires without moving to an extent. Zuko occasionally causes massive flare-ups when standing next to a flame while angry, and the flames in the palace seem to have a similar connection with the Firelord. It's sometimes said that firebending comes from proper breath control, while the other elements don't have any such association.
The restrictions on who has access to bending are somewhat unclear. The only definite restriction is that a citizen of any given nation can only use their associated element unless they're the Avatar.
Stray power use, aside from the fire flareups, seems to involve a bender gesturing dramatically.
One of my favorite examples of firebending outside of martial use is that which Iroh does when he warms his tea; Bumi also demonstrates that he's able to earthbend without moving during the eclipse when he retakes his city.
I would definitely say, though, that everyone who uses their bending abilities without actually doing anything have expert SALs in various skills (bringing their character bias up) and high BRAs, probably at least in the mid-2@ range.
I would also point out that it certainly seems that not everyone of every nation has bending abilities. It isn't quite divided peasants/nobles, but nothing is to say that it wasn't once divided that way.
If you take the kata out of it as a separate bonusing skill, you've made it all magic-by-thought, which takes a severe penalty with a high risk of wrong skill botches. Assuming each kata is particular to one type of skill for the element, they are easily defined as the necessary ritual, and success in the skill is thus based on successful performance of the kata--better performance is indicated by a higher skill success roll and translates into better outcome.
Yeah, That's how I would handle it for magic. The skill is so difficult without the kata that only the masters can bend without it. It fits.
I am fairly sure that the only reason firebenders lose their control of the fire is due to their current belief that firebending is based on rage. Were other bending style practicioners to hold that belief (unlikely as that may seem)I think they would have the same problem. That is my evidence for a Psi base.
I'm watching Titanic. I think I would go down with the ship. Make sure to loot all of the staterooms that I could of all gold and jewelery. Unlike most folks, a verser CAN take it with him when he goes.
(Doing Therapy)
Bumi actually earthbends by lifting his chin.
It does seem that the benders who use tiny movements or none at all are exclusively masters.
Although not everyone has bending abilities, they seem to make up a really large fraction of the population. Bear in mind, each tank requires a firebender, each warship catapult has one nearby when on deployment, and almost any military unit includes a couple with the infantry. If it ever were divided peasants/nobles, that was quite a long time ago.
It's not just firebenders who lose control; Katara sets off the plot by flailing her arms dramatically near an iceberg. Toph occasionally causes minor tremors when angry.
RISE, THREAD PAGECOUNT, RISE!
Sudo RISE MY PAGECOUNT, RISE!